How are you feeling today? Up a little bit? He and I retired a few days ago. How are you feeling? Are you still tired? More tired today than yesterday? Well, let's be careful. Step by step. Step a little more slowly maybe. I actually have to slow down too because I want to tell you about some things today but I don't think I can get to them. I want to discuss for example the relationship between the sitting and all that fancy stuff

[01:01]

emptiness and having an object of thought. But I want to stay with this little story we're on here a little bit longer at this point, particularly that point where the ancestor ferries Hoi Nang across the river. There's more there than we discussed, I think. So Hoi Nang says, they come down to the base of the mountain. near the station, by the river, and Quang Nam salutes the teacher in Buddhist fashion, whatever that is, and says, you should go back now, teacher.

[02:19]

I've already realized the way I can take myself across. And the ancestor says, though you have become the way, still I will ferry you across." And actually what I would say, as I said yesterday, is, because you have become the way, I will go across with you. If he hadn't attained the way, if he hadn't become the way, then the ancestor would have to let him do it by himself. since he could do it himself the ancestor could come along again buddha is buddha is not buddha buddha does not save sentient beings buddha is the great happiness that sentient beings

[03:32]

save themselves. The teacher's transport is your transport. The teacher is the one who sees his or her development as identical with yours. Teacher is one who sees your fulfillment of your potential as the same as his or her fulfillment of potential. Teacher's liberation is your liberation. So if you're liberated, the teacher gets to ride across

[04:34]

And also, anyway, they want to. Another point I'd like to raise is that although we may greatly respect our teacher and be inspired by our teacher's practice. We should not try to be like our teacher. If we try to be like our teacher, number one, we'll always be a half-baked version of our teacher.

[05:43]

We'll never be good at being like that other person. We were having a class one time and we have this downward transmission study group sometimes called the Denbo Choir it's a co-ed choir by the way and during one of our classes or after one of our classes Catherine said do we have to learn all do we have to be able to do all this stuff all this stuff I think she's referring to was to be able to lecture about the material that we were studying. And I said, yes. But later I thought, no.

[06:49]

The reason why I said yes, I think, was that I felt like, I kind of feel like, oh yeah, you can do it too. I think what she meant was, do we have to be able to do it the way you're doing it? And no, you don't have to. You have to be able to do something. But it's your stuff. The funny thing is, if you try to be just like your teacher, what you wind up to be is just yourself, but not really yourself. You wind up just being stuck in your old patterns that you don't realize because you think you're trying to be like the teacher. One of Suzuki Roshi's disciples came to America one time.

[08:14]

He was the guy who I was talking to in Japan about making a sculpture of Suzuki Roshi. Well, he finally came and he made a sculpture of Suzuki Roshi and after it was done, People had various opinions about the quality of the sculpture or how much it looked like Suzuki Roshi. Most people thought it didn't look like Suzuki Roshi. Now, as the years go on, sometimes we look at it and we think, eh, I see a little bit there. And I was talking to Katagiri Roshi about this and he said, he said, yeah, Ide-san tried to make it look exactly like Suzuki Roshi and it wound up looking like Ide-san. It's okay for you to look just like you.

[09:25]

That's fine. But you should know that. You shouldn't think you're being a teacher. That's a self. Not the point. If I'm a teacher, then I have certain things to teach, and I have certain karmic background, and I'm teaching exactly the suchness of me, as fully as I can, hopefully, and not openly and honestly be myself. That's my teaching. That's not your teaching. So Blanche too sometimes asks or talks about, well I'm not going to be teaching like that. I can't get into some of that stuff that you've been getting into the last few years or last decades. I'm just never going to be that way. But she's done things and she's learned things and she's practicing that I haven't practiced. For example, she can teach through sewing.

[10:31]

Well, I could too. If I was so, I'd learn from that too. You'd see I wasn't too good at it. That would be the way I would teach. And if Blanc gives lectures about Aghadharma, then that's the way she'll teach Aghadharma, according to the way she understands it. It's the substance of the situation. And to me, Eric is a great teacher. Yes. What is this with what you were saying about copying the clichés of the masters who were the great people or the people you admired? Well, have you got any idea? My sense of it is with the consciousness that you're copying a cliché that's not yours.

[11:43]

Right. That's the thing. And that's why I like the word cliché because using that word it makes it more conscious that you're trying on a stereotype. Which if you're a musician that's very antithetical isn't it? Can you imagine if this is a jazz musician trying on a stereotype? No. But they should do that because The reason why they should do it is because they do do it. Unconsciously, you do copy the clichés of your seniors, of the people you respect. So since you do it, you should do it consciously. If you do it consciously, you can say, now I'm doing this cliché of this guy. I'm doing this, I'm trying this musical style on that is unavoidable. that I'm influenced by anyway. So let's consciously own up to the fact that this person has a great influence on my life. Let's try it on. But I know I'm not being like that person.

[12:45]

Okay? I'm not trying to be like him. I'm trying to become myself by copying him or I'm trying to be myself by copying and by admitting what I can't help but copy. If someone you cannot avoid the cliches of Shakespeare, we cannot avoid it. So let's consciously try on those cliches and be aware of what we're trying on. Okay? Then you avoid, well, you avoid, what do you avoid? You avoid, you don't avoid anything. It's if you don't copy the cliches, you avoid something. You avoid admitting what you're doing. By the way, I've heard a rumor that certain people kind of want to know what secret activities are going on in this buddy group.

[14:15]

So anybody who wants to know what's going on, I'm going to have a meeting after the session and tell you everything that you want to know. I have another question about the cliché type. I mean, there seems to be, I think all of us experience even more intimate, I mean, ultimately the teacher, the elder also is living a cliché, of course, and so when we unite in that one cliché, like I stand, like a certain person stands at that moment, I know I'm that person and I feel totally that's how that person feels, and that's some kind of a meeting or of intimacy that is going on. I often feel my teachers in my body, I feel myself doing things and I feel them doing it. They have taken it on as well.

[15:19]

Right, right. But somehow it didn't come to me by trying to copy them. But you can try to copy, but that way is okay as long as you're conscious of it. And also you know that you're also not them, that I'm not Siddharthi Rishi. And yet, so the student and the teacher are the same and also should not be the same. I know one teacher, that's in America, and I knew his teacher, and they were exactly alike. This is a case where they actually defied what I said, right? The teacher and the student were exactly the same, except they were two different people.

[16:21]

And I think the teacher fell in love with the student, and was blind to the student's problems because of that. And this teacher is in big trouble. And great pain and suffering and confusion have happened around this teacher because he was exactly like his teacher. He was amazing. And the teacher was otherwise a great teacher, I think, a wonderful person, but he fell for this. He let his student be like him out of the joy of seeing a direct replica. So if monks, particularly if monks don't have their own biological children, their own biological sons and daughters, to see themselves replicated in a student is pretty close. And you should crush that.

[17:28]

But he didn't. And another point I'd like to raise and that is if we open ourselves in dialogue we also open ourselves to emptiness. And the teacher may have had a dialogue with someone else at some point but the teacher doesn't know how to have a dialogue with you before the teacher has a dialogue with you. It's a two-way street. It's like, you know, that thing about pecking from the outside and the inside of the shell at the same time.

[18:39]

Teacher can't teach you how to open up. Teacher can't open before you open. You can't open before the teacher opens. One has to say, a little open? Yeah, a little open. A little more open? Mm-hmm. A little bit more open? Yeah. Back and forth until both people open and start talking honestly. If the teacher, if the chicken pecks the egg, and breaks the egg open before the little ones inside, strong, almost strong enough to break the egg from the other side, uh, it will kill the chick. Can't peg too early. Otherwise the chick may not be strong enough to take care of itself. Once the, once the protective shield is taken away and the air comes in and starts drying things out. But sometimes the chick can't get out by itself either, so there has to be... And sometimes the pecking from the outside encourages the chick from the inside to do its work.

[19:50]

So, this kind of thing is a subtle, part of the subtlety going on there. a little bit more also on the wonderful dialogue when the ancestor went to see Huynh Nam in a pounding area. So apparently the method of threshing rice or pounding rice at that time involved a mortar and a pestle.

[20:57]

You know what a pestle is, Gabrielle? Hm? mortar is like a bowl and you put like gamacio in it and pestle is that this thing's a pestle so apparently the the pounding process was put the rice in and go I don't know how actually how they polished rice in the Tang Dynasty but you do? And did they put a little powder in or something? Okay, so it looks like they still do somewhat the same way. Pounding the rice in this mortar with a pestle. Ancestors sitting at a kind of treadle or something rather than calming like this Yeah, yeah, yeah, right I think I've seen some pictures of them doing that in my mind Eight months So Originally, of course these these grains of rice these grains of rice are

[22:34]

are the seeds of the Dharma. Okay? And originally they grew in an open field without people doing that much. This particular rice, in this particular story, grew in an open field, in a wild field, with no tending. This was undomesticated rice in this case. This guy. Okay? Wild rice. brought this wild rice in and started pounding it. Now, after husking and pounding this, husking and polishing this rice, it would not be defiled anymore. My understanding is part of the reason for making white rice is that it stores better. Protected. That's what they did it for. They did it to protect it and that's what The purpose of pounding is to protect from defilement.

[23:51]

The next stage is sifting and straining. Even though the rice is white now and can't be defiled anymore, still it needs to be sifted and strained in order for this thing to be able to pervade into all situations. So the story has those three phases of this wild rice growing, pounding and sifting. The wild rice was done before he came. The pounding was done there for eight months and the ancestor came and they sifted the rice together. The teacher can help somewhat with the pounding by basically assigning pounding, go pound.

[25:05]

Pounding in Zen school is called sitting still. Go sit still. Sitting still makes the rice white and makes it so it isn't defiled. And the relationship between the student and the teacher is the sitting and straining. When the ancestor hit the mortar three times, the rice grains were spontaneously arranged and the potential of the mind was revealed. When the student sifted the rice three times,

[26:09]

The way of Zen was communicated. So those are the three stages, folks. One's called growing wild rice or domesticated rice. It's called the causal nexus. You bring your causal nexus and then you sit still. And then through a relationship with a teacher, you sit still. the rice. I don't know if the story that's really happened, you know, in the way it's said to be here, but it's a wonderful story to catch the practice. It's what do you call it? It's a ghost trap. and catch God in it.

[27:38]

Okay, so after he went over the river, the ancestor went back to the mountain, to Yellow Plum Mountain, and when he got back, He didn't lecture anymore, stopped lecturing. And people said, Teacher, why aren't you lecturing anymore? And he said, My way has gone. And he said, Who got your Roman teaching? And he said, He must have got it.

[28:50]

And so they went to look for him. To the rice pounding area. What's the sifting? You mean the sifting and the stranding? You want just the sifting or just the stranding? Both of them? That's the relationship between the student and teacher. So what's your question? What's the relationship between the student and teacher? It's a mystery. into the mystery. What? What about eating it? That comes right after it's sifted.

[29:56]

Oh, sorry. He went off to cook every three years and then eat it. So they concluded correctly that Workman Lou got the robe and the teaching. It was a big community. They had 700 to 1,000 people there. And several hundred of them went after Huynh Nguyen. After Eric.

[30:57]

Let's see, so there's two versions of this story from this point. One, well, more than two, there are several versions. The way the Platform Sutra is constructed is, at the beginning of the Platform Sutra, some people ask Hui Nong to give the teaching and he gives his biography first. So his rendition of this story is, after about two months, I reached the Ta Yu Ling mountain range. Unknown to me, several hundred men were following behind, wishing to try to kill me and steal my robe and my dharma. No, excuse me, steal my robe and dharma. By the time I got halfway up the mountain, they all turned back.

[32:04]

But there was one monk of the family named Jun, whose personal name was Hui Ming. The Hui is the same as Hui Nong. First character of their name was the same. It means wisdom. Ming means like Ming Dynasty, bright, brilliant. Formerly, the Hui Ming had been a general of the third rank, and he was by nature and conduct coarse and vile. Reaching the top of the mountain, he caught up with me and threatened me. I handed over the Dharma robe, but he was not willing to take it. He said, I have come this long distance to seek the Dharma. I have no need of the robe. Then on top of the mountain, I transmitted the Dharma to Hui Ming, who, when he heard it, was at once enlightened. I then ordered him to return north and convert the people there.

[33:12]

So this is the Platform Scripture version, and it's shorter than the one which appears in Khezan's history, and also it's one shorter than the one which is Case 23 of the Munwangkan, the Gateless Gate. That case is called, Don't Think Good or Evil. The other version is, at that time, so 700, all these people came after Hui Nong, at that time there was a monk in the group named Hui Ming, who had been a general in the army. He led the expedition. He overtook the master on the Da Yun range. The master said, this road symbolizes faith. Why should it be fought over? He put the vestment and bowl in a boulder and hid in the bushes.

[34:21]

I kind of like that he hid in the bushes. Like I said, he wasn't Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett. Just a wood citizen. I don't want to fight this gentleman. When Hui Ming got there, he tried to pick the roving bowl up. But even though he tried with all his might, it wouldn't budge. It wouldn't budge. Then Hui Ming trembled and said, I have come for the teaching, not for the vestment. Master came out and sat on the boulder. I've heard this story quite a few times and read it a few times. I've even seen pictures of it. And I just have this thing in my head that I want to tell you about.

[35:24]

And it's kind of like, it's the top of this mountain, and in my mind this mountain is There's nothing else around. It's just this bare, flat surface, and there's a big boulder sitting on top of this. And there's not much color, but it's very bright there. Very bright. A harsh, kind of harsh, cold brightness. And I don't see any other mountains around. It's very, again, it's a very kind of It's not a gorgeous landscape I see. It's very bare and poor. And it's just these two people there. I just somehow want to tell you that that's how I feel about this moment. The general says, the monk, Hui Ming says, please workmen,

[36:31]

reveal the essence of the teaching to me. The master said, when you don't think of good or evil, what is your original face? And again, I wanted to tell you how I felt about the scene because I just imagined, I would like, you know, you might imagine if you were traveling And you've never heard about Zen before, you know? You've never heard this story. And someone came running up to you and said, please, you know, work with me. Reveal the essence of the teaching to me. Can you imagine? Nobody ever said this before. Can you imagine saying to somebody, when you don't think good or evil, what was your face before your parents were born? Imagine saying that to somebody. And when I think about that, I think, where did that come from?

[37:48]

Nobody ever thought of saying that before. This is a cliche. Now. But before anybody, now it seems easy to say, doesn't it? I can read it. I can say it. But nobody ever said this before. Where did it come from, this kind of teaching? I'm so impressed if you don't forget that you know about it and imagine thinking it up on top of a mountain when somebody comes running up to you. When he heard this, Hui Ming was greatly enlightened. He asked further, Is there any further secret meaning beyond what you have just said?" The Master said, I have told you something that is not a secret. If you look into your mind, the secret is in you.

[38:50]

Huì Mìng said, Though I was at Wáng Mèi, I didn't realize my own likeness. Now that I have received your teaching, I am like a person who drinks water and knows himself, whether it is cold or warm. You are my teacher." And the master said, If that's the way you feel, then Wong May is your teacher as well In other words, if you feel I'm your teacher, then the fifth ancestor is your teacher too. And in some histories, this monk is said to be a disciple of the fifth ancestor, not a disciple of the sixth ancestor. Although the sixth ancestor was, from some points of view, a rough barbarian, at this point in his life we can start to see that he was very brilliant and also very, very kind.

[40:14]

Mumon's commentary on this story. It should be said that the sixth ancestor showed by his actions that they sprang from urgent circumstances. His kindness is like that of a grandmother who peels a fresh lychee, removes the seeds, and puts them into your mouth so that all you have to do is swallow it. I'm being married to a Chinese woman and having a child. I inherited a Chinese grandmother along with the deal. And when my daughter goes over to the Chinese grandmother's house, this woman... When my daughter comes to visit this woman,

[41:32]

It is virgin circumstances. If the Zen master comes to the house, she just looks at him and analyzes his physiognomy. And cruelly comes to her conclusions about his character. She does. And I'm talking not about myself. But I get included. Everybody gets the treatment from the eyes. She can spot it. But when the granddaughter comes, it is urgent circumstance. This is urgent. We have to get this kid's sleep teeth, foot, peeled and get those seeds out of there. She peels the fruit, cuts it up in little pieces and brings it to the granddaughter.

[42:38]

She peels tomatoes. And this is urgent. This is not like, this has to be done soon because the baby can't be up waiting. Even though the baby is getting pretty big now. This is Linji's, this is a sixth ancestor. When he saw that guy, this was urgent. He had to give him the Dharma just right for him. Real grandmother's heart. This is the Zen grandmother's heart. And these Chinese grandmothers really do that. They really do peel the fruit And it's urgent. It's urgent.

[43:45]

You know, Hong Ren set this whole thing up by stopping my dream. I guess so. Yeah, that helped him. He even told him that the able one got it. So he said, he actually said, Nung got it. Especially since he said, go away and hide for three years. The word set up will come up again and again. So back to the rice. What? He gave the rice to others. That's right. This is the beginning of his cooking activity. Okay, here's the verse.

[44:47]

Here's Mu Man's verse. It can't be described. And Anderson's comment is, but you can eat it. It can't be pictured. It can't be sufficiently praised. That's true. Stop trying to do anything with it. There is nowhere to hide the primal face. Even though the world is destroyed, it is indestructible. Huì Míng then bowed his thanks and left.

[45:57]

Later, when he became an abbot, he changed his name to Dào Míng, avoiding the use of huì out of deference to his master, whose name was Huì Nung. When anyone came to study with him, he would always send them to study with the master. for historical interests. There's another version of the story that his name was originally Hui Ming. No, his name was originally Dao Ming and he changes to Hui Ming to be like his master. Either way. You see, you're the same as your teacher and you're different. So if you're different, you're the same. If you're the same, you're different. After the master received the vestment and the teaching, he concealed himself for ten years among hunters in the Xi province.

[47:03]

Another version is he concealed himself for fourteen years. He was told to conceal for three, but he overdid it. So here is the beginning of another Zen tradition, and that is, after Dharma transmission, go into hiding. I didn't go into hiding. People hid me. Some people have their own personal hiding equipment. They're really lucky. In the year 676, 1100 years before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, He came to Nanhai.

[48:08]

He was then 39 years old, where he found a doctrinal master named Lin Zong. Lin Zong, lecturing on the Nirvana Sutra. at Foshin Temple. He stayed for a while in the hallway. A strong wind was blowing the temple banner, and he heard two monks arguing, one saying that the flag was moving, the other saying the wind was moving. They argued back and forth without getting to the truth. The master said, May a layman interrupt your lofty discussion? It's not the wind or the flag that's moving. Your minds are moving. And your mouth.

[49:11]

This was out in the hall, and Lin Zong, Yin Zong, heard these words and was amazed. The next day he called the Master into his quarters and asked about the meaning of the wind and the flag. The Master thoroughly explained the principle to him. Yin Zong unconsciously stood up and said, you are definitely not an ordinary person. Who is your teacher? The master told him about how he had received the teaching and concealed nothing any longer. Now my secret love's no secret anymore." Then Lin Zong became his disciple and asked to receive the essentials of Zen.

[50:14]

He said to the assembly in the temple, I am an ordinary mortal, but now I have met a living Bodhisattva. Then he pointed to Workman Liu and the crowd and said, This is he. He then asked to bring out the robe of faith which was transmitted to him so that everyone could look upon it. I feel like I'm reading the Gettysburg Address, which always got me. So here's this. On the 15th day of January, several famous priests were assembled.

[51:30]

to formally ordain the Master. On February 8th, He received the precepts from the precept master, Gong Liu, of Baxiang Monastery. The altar platform on which the ceremony took place had been set up by the 5th century doctrinal master and translator, Vinabhadra. He wrote

[52:35]

in his record of the event of setting up the platform. Later, there will be a living Bodhisattva who will receive the teaching on this altar. Also, In the late 6th century, the doctrinal master Paramartha personally planted two Bodhi trees on either side of the altar and told the community, in 120 years, there will be a great enlightened person who will expound unexcelled religion of emptiness under these trees and will illuminate countless people."

[53:43]

After having received the precepts, the Master began to teach Zen under these trees, as though in fulfillment of the prophecy. The next year, exactly one year later, on the 8th of February, he suddenly said to the community, I don't want to stay here. I want to go back to my old hiding place. Then Yin Zong and over 1,000 monks, nuns, and lay people escorted the master back to Bao Lin Monastery. The inspector of the province invited him to teach at Da Fan Temple and also receive the foremost precepts of the mind ground from the master.

[54:51]

His disciples recorded his sayings there and called this record the Platform Sutra. After that, he returned to Cao Xi and showered the rain of teaching. Those who were awakened were not less than 1,000. At the age of 76, he passed away while sitting.

[56:07]

Intentionally we penetrate every being and place. With the true path of this way, truth is open, safe and low. Shakyamuni Buddha, [...] Shaky

[57:50]

I doubt it again. The gates are boundless. I doubt it again. The way is unsurpassable. I doubt it again.

[58:14]

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