So on Sunday, Linda Ruth Cutts gave a talk and she told a story about these boys who were going around the countryside and one of them fell into some stuff called quick mud, which is similar to quicksand, but it's more muddy than sandy. One of them remembered that the reason why you have trouble in this material is that somehow as you go into it, you create suction around yourself in the thick material. So it's the suction that makes it so you can't, you can go in, but as you go in you create a suction so it's hard to get out. One of them went into the water nearby this quick mud and dug from the watery side of the mud in a stream and eroded the area where the one boy was stuck and broke the suction and he got out.

[01:14]

And then the next day, the boys, I guess they both got the idea that what they needed to do was jump back into the creek mud, both of them. Is that right? So they both jumped in, but with no chance of eroding the mud. There's room up in front, Deborah, if you want to sit up in front. but with no chance to bring any water in to erode the suction. And they jumped in and the reason for doing that was that they felt that they wanted to test the teaching that if you immerse yourself in nature, you'll always find a way out. So they jumped into the quick mud and they figured out a way to break the suction which was created by their own activity. And one of the key things they realized was they could move around a little bit in the quick mud, but one of the key factors was to push.

[02:28]

The quick mud left an arm that I thought one of the main points was that they realized they needed to push down on the surface of this mud. from the top, and that that was actually one of the key factors in breaking the suction, to bring air down into it from above and create, you know, meet suction with suction, create a suction below the hand, which would then meet the suction where it was already established and broken loose. But I thought that if this applies to, you know, language and our lives, you know, that that we get drawn into the world. And entering the world, there's a kind of suction that's created. And the question is, what is created, or the process by which that suction is created will be, if we can understand it, will be the key to relieving the suction, or relieving the draw

[03:39]

and the paralysis of the situation which we've gotten into. We somehow have to get in touch with the process by which we got entrapped. And these boys voluntarily did that because they trusted that the processes of nature by which you get entrapped are also the processes which will illuminate the release. The question is whether you remember or can reenact your entry into the world. Whether you can... Can you recreate the conditions? Like in physics, I was talking about this. If you can recreate... Like physicists are trying to recreate the conditions... at the beginning of the universe so that they can understand how things develop from that point.

[04:46]

Can you recreate the conditions for entering the world? Willingly enter the world and watch how you create the situations for bondage and for entering into a kind of stuck situation. You mean each moment, or your initial entry? Well, there was an initial entry, but now, like there was a beginning of the universe, supposedly, maybe. Maybe there really wasn't. But anyway, they had some idea about what the conditions at the beginning of the universe were. So if they want to see what followed from that, they need to recreate the conditions. So... Probably we've entered the world on innumerable occasions, but how many of those times did you do so willingly and knowingly? So a koan class is a situation where people supposedly knowingly and willingly come to the class, and then miraculously the conditions of the world are created.

[06:03]

Like you may feel like somebody understands what's going on and you don't. Or like there's a reality which you're not privy to, or you're not intimate with. Does anybody have that feeling in this class sometimes? But you come here and walk yourself into that situation somehow. Do you know beforehand that that might happen and then still come? Well, see, I think that's kind of heroic and intelligent. That you actually go into a situation where you know you might be confronted with some sense of being an alien or... What do you call it? A dispossessed person. Dispossessed in terms of reality. So you can have that feeling in this class, right?

[07:09]

Like there's a tradition and there's these deep meanings to these stories, right? Which you are going to now immerse into the story and then feel like you're at a loss for what they mean. But if you watch the process by which that happens, I think that's really a good idea. Now, almost like, I don't very often do this, but almost like close your eyes and listen. If your whole body were an eye, if your whole body were an eye, like an eyeball, you still wouldn't be able to see it. You still wouldn't be able to see it. If your whole body were an eye, you still wouldn't be able to see it. If your whole body were an ear, you still wouldn't be able to hear it. If your whole body were a mouth, you wouldn't be able to speak it.

[08:17]

If your whole body were a mind, you still wouldn't be able to perceive it. Now, leaving aside whole body for the moment, if suddenly you had no eyes, how would you see? Without ears, how would you hear? Without a mouth, how would you speak? Without a mind, how would you perceive? Here, if you can unfurl a single pathway, then you'd be a person with the ancient Buddhas, their intimate friend. But leaving aside studying for the moment, under whom would you study? Yun Yan asked Da Wu, What does the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion use so many hands and eyes for?

[09:27]

Da Wu said, It's like someone reaching back, groping for a pillow in the middle of the night. Yan said, I understand. Wu said, how do you understand? Yin said, all over the body are hands and eyes. Wu said, you have quite a bit there, but you've only said 80% of it. Yin-Yin said, what about you, elder brother? Wu said, throughout the body are hands and eyes. What's happened? You feel queasy.

[10:47]

Pardon? You feel queasy? You're queasy. I don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about. Well, nominally they're talking about great compassion, right? Yeah. So one person feels queasy, another person doesn't understand what somebody's talking about. Okay? Is this being in the world? Are you guys in the world? Huh? Are you in the world, Omar? Yeah.

[11:48]

Did you see yourself plunge into it? Yes. Okay. So anybody here not in the world that can help them? Karen? I know the world. How is it? It's good. Good. I think reaching back for a pillow at night is something we all do. How is that? How is that reaching for the pillow? I don't know. I'm not there when I do it. I just do it. And what reaches? I don't know. I'm not, I'm not finding it. No, I'm sleeping, actually. Uh-huh. But something arises that causes me to need to reach for the pillow.

[12:55]

So is that, is that thing that, that causes you to reach for the pillow like the hands of, of great compassion? It's comforting me, helping me at the time. Well, yeah, and how is it like great compassion, this reaching of the hand when you're asleep? It's not, there's no premeditation to it. It's a gesture that's very simple, natural. It just arises, and you do it, and So people understand this hand reaching for the pillow in the night. Total trust. It's intimate. It usually happens when you're uncomfortable. It happens usually when you're at least a little uncomfortable.

[13:56]

You want to be a little bit more comfortable on your own. Just the right conditions. Yes, it kind of rises throughout your body. It feels like you're not really separate from the pillow. It's not how you find it. You know, just kind of throughout, you know, just the pillow kind of responds. Mm-hmm. I keep thinking of Ananda leaping into bed. Yes. Waking up. Mm-hmm. This story seems closely related to the story we studied a while ago. Some of you weren't in the class when we studied it, even though it was just two cases ago. It's where Saushan said that the Dharma body of the Buddha is like vast space. It manifests in response to beings, like the moon reflected in the water. So, one could guess that this reaching of the hand in the night

[15:01]

is like the vastness of a Dharmakaya responding to the circumstances of somebody who wants to be slightly more comfortable in her bed. Now, some people might think, well, gee, pretty highfalutin for reaching for a pillow in your bed. But does the Dharmakaya, you think that our Dharmakaya is going to be like, you know, what do you call it, excluded from the reaching, from your hand reaching for a pillow at night? I don't think so. Do you think so? Anybody think so? And so how is the hand reaching for the pillow in the middle of the night, reaching back for the pillow in the middle of the night, how is that the dharmakaya manifesting in response to beings? Can you see that?

[16:04]

You can say, yes, I understand. That's what Yuen Yen said. He said, yes, I understand how that's the dharmakaya. His grandson will say this, you know. Fifty years later, his grandson will say this. Saoshan is his grandson. And then Da Wu says to Yun Yan, well, how so? How do you understand? He says, it's like hands and eyes all over the body. Hands and eyes all over your body. Like your body with hands and eyes all over it. Okay? With hands and hands and eyes of compassion all over your body. That's your body which is always responding to beings. Or put it the other way, the way your body responds to beings is the hands and eyes all over your body.

[17:10]

That's what Daud said, and then his brother said, That's pretty good, but that's only 80%. Which just happens to be the exact same figure from that same story. And he says, well, how about you, older brother? He says, hands and eyes throughout the body. Or the whole body, hands and eyes. Is that what it says here? Oh, but you say whole body. I say whole body. Okay. Well, what percent do you want to give to that? Well, I thought maybe 106. Okay. So it's a simple story, and it seems like it goes nicely with Case 52, about meditating on how the formless reality body of Buddha responds according to circumstances to help beings.

[18:37]

And now we're talking about this in terms of compassion, in terms of great compassion and the way it responds. to beings who are in the world. So now, if you've entered the world, if you've entered the world now, what will be the appropriate response to the situation? What do they mean, to enter the world? That you're supposed to check out. Well, or, or actually maybe I shouldn't say that's what you should check out. I should say, yes, that's, that's, that's the response. You've entered the world. What does it mean to enter the world? Did you notice? Are you noticing that? It's similar to what is it like to be in bed and needing pillows?

[19:45]

How is that? What's it like for your hand to reach out for the pillow? Right now? Well, usually it's like one hand at a time. So, how come there are so many? Is it like throughout the body, one hand or one eye? So, how come so many? How come so many? The Sangha. Sangha. Sangha, yeah, maybe there wouldn't be so many if there weren't so many beings. Maybe if there was just one being there would just be one hand. Maybe it's just because of the number of beings that there has to be so many possible responses.

[20:49]

Which is similar to maybe because we have so many ways of getting into the world that we have to have many ways of getting out. Or because we have so many ways of entrapping ourselves we have many, many opportunities to see how we're entrapped. Do you have a feeling for that right now? Do you have a feeling for that right now? Do you often have that dinner? How do you feel about that feeling?

[21:56]

I don't want to have you compare, but tell me about that feeling some more, please. Will you speak up? It's difficult. It feels like that feeling is below the surface of words and people, but kind of close. It has a It has a sense of readiness, but not with something difficult, just readiness.

[23:02]

Uh-huh, just readiness. It's maybe a little bit like tiny little bubbles No, not very strong busy water, but very mild busy water. Mild busy water? Kind of high water. So there is a kind of energy with it that's very quiet. It doesn't need to do anything. And how do you take care of this feeling? What's your responsibility or your task here, your practice? What just came up was not to get into its way.

[24:03]

Not to get into its way. Mm-hm. Reaching back to the pillow, is it really doing anything? It doesn't have to be. It seems to me like it's the process that's important. You're not actually changing the situation, you're just kind of moving things around a little. Reaching for the pillow wouldn't have to be like a karmic act. You wouldn't have to say, well, I'm using my arm to reach for the pillow. It wouldn't have to be that way. It could be an action that arose from the circumstances of an arm connected to a body, in a bed, at night time, with pillows around, and some discomfort. And all that together creates this movement, this activity, this function, this function, but not necessarily karma. So in that sense, you know, great compassion is like responding.

[25:06]

You sort of add up the ingredients and there's a response, but it's not really like I'm doing something. But it looks like something that someone could say, I'm doing that. But it's set up that it's in the night and reaching sort of behind you too. So it helps to see that this might be a non-karmic activity, a non-karmic function. Yes? Ylenia? I keep seeing my reaching for the pillow as a response to the pillow, the presence of the pillow. The pillow is there, responding to me, and feels like that's, I don't understand exactly what I'm saying, but it feels really good. Something to do with that pillow being everywhere. I don't understand them, but that just feels really wonderful.

[26:22]

To me, reaching for a pillow is just a simple act of taking care of your body. And when you know how to take care of your body, then you know how to take care of all other bodies, because they're not there. Right, and so one question is, what's the difference between taking care of your body and taking care of your body with this great compassion? What's the key difference? Kevin? To me, it's, in the last class we talked about being wholehearted and how the mind sets limits on those things. And to me, I think that it's though, when you reach for the pillow, you're doing wholeheartedly. Your mind isn't stopping you from grabbing for this pillow. Your mind isn't saying what you have to do in a complicated way. It's just you're automatically finding the expedient means to alleviate the suffering in this context.

[27:27]

Like the mind is no hindrance. Mm-hmm. Mind is no hindrance. More like a servant in this case. Is it Cheryl? Cheryl. Every time I would wake up as if I told it all before. Pardon? I would wake up as if I told it all before it wasn't there. Uh-huh. Every time I would wake up as if I told it all before it wasn't there. I would like to say I think it's a thousand arms and eyes because like in every cell of my body there's arms and eyes. It's tough. There's a basic trust and confidence.

[28:37]

There's no plan in preaching for the pillow. It occurs before there's even a chance to think about it or worry about it or plan or ask a question, where is the pillow? It's just a confidence of kind of reaching out for the pillow. It's a hand mic in several places, but it does... There's confidence that, well, if it's not right here, it's over here. So it's kind of like the pillow's reaching for the hand, too. It's pretty interesting. Yeah, and if you reach for the pillow, I don't know. Some of you are a little different. But I guess that most people, when they reach for the pillow in the middle of the night, if they don't get it the first try... They don't necessarily say, you know, God damn it. You know, because it's in the night, you know, it's kind of like you reach, and if it isn't right where you expect it, you just reach again, you know, right?

[29:42]

It doesn't mean you succeed. It's not a matter of success or failure. It's just a reaching. What's the difference between non-karmic activity and mindless habitual activity? The difference between non-karmic and mindless habitual? Mindless habitual activity is karmic. It seems like some things like reaching out for a pillow in the night can be just a mindless habit that's I would say that if... Good question, because I would say if you're in bed in the middle of the night and you're habitually reaching for... That would be an example of that. That wouldn't be great compassion. That would be karma. And you wouldn't be getting much rest. I think that the point is that this is not mindless activity.

[30:48]

The mind is operating, but not habitually. Habitually, our habit is, most people's habit is, to reach for something to get it. And if they don't get it, to feel frustrated, or incompetent, or whatever. You have your habitual styles of relating to objects, right? And this is suffering. Because reaching for the pillow doesn't seem to be habitual to me, or mindless. Seems like a cookie, though. It could be, but isn't that rather unusual? I mean, I'm sure we have a wide variety of people here, so probably maybe somebody in this group, a lot of people, somebody probably does that, you know. Or if the group gets big enough, we'll probably find somebody who, that's their problem, you know, they sit up only reaching for pillows in the middle of the night, habitually, and not even noticing that they've got this habit and how miserable they are for it. But I don't know, I never heard of anybody like that, right?

[31:52]

Do it every morning. Well, it sounds kind of like something like maybe while you're talking to someone and there's a bowl of cookies or something and you're not really thinking about anything, you're just eating while you're talking. Yes, well, that's habitual, right? Right, that's quite... And you think you're doing it, and you think you're feeding yourself. You may not be mindful of what you're doing. I'm not saying you're... That seems like mindless habitual behavior. Right. That's the example. I believe it's that example. That seems like mindless habitual behavior, unless you're being very mindful of yourself while you're doing that, which tends to gradually free you from the habit of reaching for the cookie mindlessly. But this reaching for the pillow doesn't seem like habitual behavior. How about reaching for a cooking knife?

[32:52]

Reaching for a cooking knife, that would be very unusual, too. Are we awake when we're reaching for this pillow? Is this the assumption, the story, that the person is... I think so, yeah. I think the person could be awake or asleep. It would work either way for me. without sort of normal wakefulness or inner sleep. I think either way will be fine. Anyway, the body's responding to the need, aren't responding to some need for adjusting your situation. So there is some awakeness there. Right? So what level of awakeness? I think you could have a range there. The thing is you're responding according to conditions, but is it habitual? No. And are you thinking in terms of I, the independent person, executing this pact? That's the question. Stuart, did you have something? Yeah, I think what Charlie was asking was a really interesting question that has to do about mindlessness.

[33:56]

Usually when we say that we do something mindlessly, we don't really mean truly mindless, we mean just not at a very high level. of mental activity. We just don't think things through very clearly. We're not paying close attention. But we are engaging in mental activity and just traveling old roads. That's very different from an unquestioning and immediate response. Great. So mindless means you're not paying attention to this habitual activity of eating a cookie. But mindfully, the non-karmic act is also not necessarily mindful. You don't have to be mindful when you're acting non-karmically. However, you might be. However, if you're mindful of acting karmically, you will gradually realize non-karmic activities.

[35:00]

because you'll notice the misery of the karmic routine, of the karmic habit. Jennifer? Sometimes when I've got my pillow in me, it's not because I have a discomfort, it's because the pillow is comfortable, it's there, it's just an act of gathering, it's touching me, it's just a... It's a little different than adjusting something, the patient has discomfort. It's just reaching out to gather that in. Right. Actually, we said some reasons, but we didn't say the reasons for reaching for the pillow. It could have been in response to what you're saying. It could be a response to... It could be many responses. It could be many responses, this reaching for it. And that's the thing about compassion. It could be responding to many circumstances appropriately. So the reaching... would vary according to the circumstances, and there would be no interference between the response and the request.

[36:03]

They would be appropriately matched. I don't remember which one of you is first. I was just going to say that great compassion is just like reaching back for a pillow in the middle of the night. You were going to say that? Yeah, just natural, and it's no big deal. Yeah, no big deal. And it's your normal response to a situation like a mother taking care of a child. That's how I feel, too. But anyway, we have this class, so we're going to keep talking. Do you want to say something, Kevin? I think I wanted to support that a little more, like, the idea of, like, when you and I are carrying on a conversation, and, okay, now I'm reaching for my pen. Not very lightly done.

[37:05]

I think when we're reaching for that pillow, we're not really expecting to get it all the time. I mean, sometimes the mind is the thing that sets up, okay, I've gotta get this cookie now, so. Oh, I'm sorry, what were you saying? And it's like when you're reaching for the pillow, it's not so, it's more like, just know that your head is suffering or some part of you is suffering. So rather than sitting there and thinking, you know, waking your mind up and making it so that it has to do all this work, your body just says, no, just get the pillow. Just get the pillow. It doesn't say, okay, now we have to wake up, find this pillow, put it behind our head, and go back to sleep after we're comfortable. We don't have to think so much to be that compassionate. You already know how to do it. They're there. Who's coming?

[38:08]

For some reason, I came up with the image of reaching back to the revolver under the cover. Is she going to shoot her way out of school? I was wondering about the other ingredient here that makes that a karmic act or not, as opposed to just this kind of seemingly harmless act of reaching out. Yeah, so what would maybe turn that into, well, it's a potentially dangerous act, right? The danger is much more accessible now. Can you imagine then what makes that more likely as a karmic thing? Maybe the trigger wasn't discomfort, but fear or something startling. Yeah, I think fear is more of a habit than pain.

[39:10]

We have more of a fear habit than a pain habit. Pain isn't really a habit. And responding to pain is not necessarily a habit. It can be compassion. Fears can sometimes be compassion, I suppose. I think sometimes it can be compassion. If someone, you know, needs you to be afraid, I think you should go ahead and be afraid. Darlene? I can't imagine reaching for a gun under my pillow without thought intervening. I can't imagine the body knowing reaching for a gun, which is at the center of thought, a body action which doesn't have thought intervening and saying there's danger there. I think many people would agree with that it's a real gun. I can imagine a little boy reaching for his toy gun in the same way that somebody might reach for a pillow. Just to touch the plastic, the feel of the plastic, like a new gun.

[40:17]

You know, just go and touch that nice plastic thing there. That might be more, you know, that could be comforting. Yes? I also want to say, I've read some studies of the brain that say that all action starts in the brain before we're conscious of it. We're already moving to do something subconsciously before we know that we're doing it. So, in a way, we're doing that non-karmic action automatically. You're saying the brain is non-karmic action? Well, the motion of the motor part of the brain is simply responding to the sensation, let's say, and therefore starts a movement. And that thought in me, before thought even knows that I intend to move,

[41:25]

They've measured, and I'm already starting to move. I don't understand. From my experience, I don't quite understand what you're saying. I don't understand what you're saying in terms of my experience. No, I don't think it's... I think it's very opposite our experience. That, you know, if you had machines all on your brain to register what's happening, What they find is that there's a premotor cortex. So the motor, you start making movements. You're conscious that you're making movements. You mean the hand moves before I'm conscious of moving the hand. Well, I can understand that. The muscles that start the hand. But what I wouldn't understand would be that the hand would move before the mind told it to move. That's different. The brain tells it. You can say the brain, but that's what some people think, right? Not everybody, not all intelligent people agree that the brain is what makes your hand move.

[42:31]

Not all scientists believe that. I'm a scientist, I don't believe it. Okay. Some scientists... think that our behavior is just the output of the software, of the hardware of the brain. The mind is software, the brain is hardware, and that's all it is. But not all scientists think that. And some philosophers think that, but not all philosophers think that. This is just a story you're telling, okay? But I'm just saying my experience would say that I think that obviously many times I act before I know that I'm acting. I move before I know I'm moving. Buddhism generally has... The basic message from the Buddhist group is that before there's any physical or verbal karma, there's mental karma. Not just thought, but mental karma before there's any physical or vocal karma.

[43:33]

Karma is not necessarily all of our behavior. For example, you touch a knee, you know, Like tapping my knee, you know, it's not moving enough, but if I get it the right way, at a certain point it will move, but it won't because I moved it. There. There. That wasn't me doing that. That was a mechanical response of my... this tendon. Okay? Because I didn't, that wasn't a mental thing. Okay? And it could have all started before I knew it. But even volitional action can start before you know it. Right. But it doesn't start before your, the intention arises, I don't think. Well, the intention might arise in the body. No, the intention arises, the Buddhist message is, the intention to speak and move arises in the mind. Karmic intention. There are behaviors that maybe do not arise in the mind and maybe come from the brain.

[44:38]

For example, certain physical processes may be connected to the brain that we don't know anything about ever. But karma refers to those behaviors which we will which I, which the imaginary me thinks he does. That's karma. The action is motivated, is imagined to be motivated by my will. And concentrating on Not paying attention to that type of activity means you sink into the world without noticing that you're going into the world. You don't notice that you want to go into that place, but we are habitually sucked into that. It is to our advantage in many ways to be sucked into that way of thinking.

[45:48]

There's an advantage for us to think in terms of I personally do things. There's also a big disadvantage of thinking that way because it's an illusion. But if you watch how you sink into that and get involved in that, you can play that game and at the same time become free of it. So there's various kinds of behaviors like your knee flexing or many kinds of brain-body interactions that are basically just the working of the body, no problem. It doesn't matter too much how they go. But the karmic stuff, if it's unattended, is really a problem. If it's attended, it's not a problem. Jackie? I guess when you were explaining the intentional, when you're aware of your making an action intentionally, it reminds me of

[46:52]

situations in my life when I had intended to do something a certain way, and unbeknownst to myself I did something completely different than what I expected to do in that time and moment. And perhaps I wasn't aware of it, and maybe this lady was referring to that subconscious and I don't know if they're necessarily habitual. Sometimes you surprise yourself. There can be habitual subconscious actions. For example, you can be habitually concerned for your own personal survival, but not notice it, but be acting from that. You can have unconscious ignorance and conscious ignorance. You can unconsciously believe and care about the survival of this organism separate from other organisms.

[47:54]

You can also consciously do it. On both levels, there can be, what do you call it, spiritual evolution at both levels. And having things work up and being aware of how that's working Being aware of how that's working is reaching for the pillow in the middle of the night. Reaching for that all day long is reaching for the pillow in the middle of the night. The impulse to reach out there and relate to that is compassion. Joke? You got headed in a direction? It seems like the assumption is that the pill is going to bring comfort.

[49:01]

What if it brings discomfort? Mine's not as dramatic as the gun, but what if it does horrible things? Well, again, you know, we have all these different styles, but my experience is when I reach for the pillow, it doesn't always work. But I do not get particularly upset about it. Now, some people do, and that makes the night rougher. If you actually get upset about these little adjustments you're making through the night. But I think I'm reaching for the pillow, and I do not have a big expectation it's going to be there, even. I know that it might not be there. And it's not a big issue for me if it's been moved a little bit. For me. I say, well, you're kind of laid back. I would be very concerned if my pillow had moved a few inches out of the way. So I'm not, I'm saying you reach, you reach in response, you sort of know the hand, you sort of know there's a pillow there, you have some memory that there's a pillow there, all that equipment makes it possible for you to reach for a pillow.

[50:10]

And not necessarily have a big expectation it's going to be there, but some expectation, a vague expectation, and you're not too upset about not getting it. Because compassion is not manipulative. It's more exploratory, experimental, and responsive. It's not that it doesn't matter. It's not that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter in one sense. It doesn't matter in the sense that You're always learning about the path of freeing beings by every gesture you make. Including the gesture of adjusting your own pillow. Or feeding yourself, or not feeding yourself. Everything is an exploration into liberation. Including the ordinary activities of our life. Sonia? Well... I mean, it can be. It can be. That's, I'm saying, that's what the bodhisattva of infinite compassion is like.

[51:13]

It's a being, every gesture is of this type. Is of the direction of reaching to experience how we are in the world. To experience that. That Infinite compassion means non-stop that everything is like that. Every action is like that. Or, put the other way, when every action is like that, that's infinite compassion, unhinged compassion. Sonia? So, I've been watching my own response. I feel very nervous before speaking. Yeah? And this may be sort of on or off the track, I don't know, but I keep getting the vision of how to move this thing like a pillow at night at something at another time. And I keep feeling like this whole room is like, in all of our words, like the thousand arms. If I think about the precepts of our vows, that everybody gathering here is like this reaching for the pillow.

[52:20]

This very moment, in a way, is pillow, this very moment and all of us in this room is the Dharmakaya responding to beings. This is the way the Dharmakaya is responding to beings right now. Herb? Yeah, I was just sitting here realizing how much I enjoy taking credit for these actions that arise. And I was like trying, you know, it's like an addiction. It's kind of nice, it's a warm feeling. And noticing that, If it's noticing that, I would say that's reaching back for the pillow. Is it very pleasurable? Well, noticing that it's a pleasurable feeling is part of reaching for the pillow. The pleasurable feeling is not reaching for the pillow. The liking, the wanting to take credit for your actions is not reaching for the pillow.

[53:22]

But noticing that is like reaching for the pillow. I say that. Mahi? Is that reaching for the pillow and sitting is the same? Reaching for the pillow and sitting on the same? Yes. If the sitting is like reaching for a pillow. You check it out. When you said zazen, is that zazen like reaching for a pillow in the middle of the night? Or is that zazen like eating cookies in the middle of a conversation? Huh? Martha? Martha Wax? I mean, Martha Liberos? In the dark. Pardon? What strikes me so much is it's all happening in the dark. We're so vulnerable. So vulnerable and so at risk, in a way. And there's no objects that can be seen. I mean, we kind of trust that the pillows could be back there, but we're not seen by anybody and we're not looking at anything.

[54:27]

There's non-duality in the picture. We're vulnerable to, yeah, we're vulnerable to, in a sense, not finding the pillow, or touching something that we weren't expecting, or maybe having someone tell us that we're not being compassionate, or even worse, having someone tell us that we are compassionate. We are vulnerable, and our vulnerability is how we respond. If we're not vulnerable, we can't really respond. If the Dharmakaya isn't vulnerable to beings, it can't manifest in response. So Dharmakaya is vulnerable to all of our lives. The true body of Buddha is vulnerable to us. It's like being carried by a string. Yeah. Cheryl? I'm hearing

[55:27]

Yes. I think I'd much rather be preaching than fasting. I don't know, I just... Because that's sort of been kind of going with this fasting, bread is all we eat. Today, I think about reaching, and I just... I don't know, it's just much better than preaching. One more? Yeah, this might not have anything to do with it, but the first thing that came up to me when I read the story was, The part about the pillow, like, immediately came to my mind was, like, modern day America, you know, me in my bed with my kind of pillow.

[56:35]

In China, the kind of, I heard, didn't they have, like, boy-boy car pillows? They still do. It might have been, they had wooden pillows, they had bamboo pillows, they had ceramic pillows. Kind of gives a different feel. Yeah, it gives a different feel. Kevin? Maybe that too goes to the intent then. Your intent isn't necessarily that it's going to be comfortable, but it's going to be the compassionate thing to do. I mean, would that help? I know that sometimes I've tried to be helpful in my helpfulness, even though my intent was to be helpful and have caused harm. I've created an uncomfortable spot in my neck. But the intent was still there to be compassionate, to be with the situation, even if my mind wasn't trying to.

[57:41]

OK, so reaching for the pillow in the middle of the night is not intending to be compassionate, OK? Intending to be compassionate is not what we're talking about here. Intending to be compassionate is very similar to Herb taking credit for whatever, or the warm feeling. Intending to be compassionate is good, but it's not infinite compassion. Infinite compassion is more vulnerable. Intending to be compassionate, you're not very vulnerable. You're kind of closed off. You're intending to be compassionate. You've sunk into the world by that kind of attitude. The actual intention of compassion is not intending to be compassionate. It is not having the agenda to be compassionate.

[58:42]

It is responding to beings according to their agenda, not yours. Okay, I'm being compassionate. You want this? No way. So, it's okay. It's good. Please continue to try to be compassionate. If you're going to do anything, do that. That's not what we're talking about here. That's not... That's not it. Yes? Oh, I'm sorry. You spoke of the level of consciousness where we're consciously doing things and then the level of unconsciousness where... Correct. Putting it that way. Go ahead. I heard unconscious and conscious. Yeah. Could you please go back to that for one second and... No, I don't want to. You tell me what you were trying to say. Okay. I don't know how to put it exactly, but to put one's unconscious mind in a state where it is pursuing, reaching for compassion.

[59:43]

To put one's unconscious mind in a state? Yes. I'm not following how you put your... I'm teaching you. Training it. Training your unconscious mind, okay. That was more what I was trying to say rather than consciously thinking. Consciously thinking, I'm doing a good thing, so it's okay. You weren't talking about that. I wasn't talking about that. You were talking about... The mind is already doing it, already trying to be... The mind has created its own intentions. not me personally, it's already doing compassionate things, even if it doesn't manifest itself in a good way, even if the neck still hurts, it is a good way because Well, I was following you when you said the mind is just doing compassionate things without even thinking of trying to do it that. But then I lost you when you said it didn't work, it wasn't helpful.

[60:45]

Because that would always be helpful. It changed it a little. I guess it could not be. So, yeah, I think you're saying... With my little slip, little panty right there. Excluded. That's good. Rain? Rain? Taking vows, more practice, how that... Well, I think taking vows is, taking vows in some ways trains the unconscious part. Trains the unconscious to try to be conscious? No, it trains the unconscious to be good. Just in taking the vow? Huh? Just in taking the vow. That trains the unconscious. I mean, it also does some good consciously. But the good it does consciously is not the good of, like, great compassion. As a matter of fact, it's slightly misleading in that way because you can say, I vow to be compassionate.

[61:48]

In some ways, it's the unconscious that gets benefited by that. The conscious may get confused to think that now you're going to do this thing called be compassionate, which is not reaching for the hand, reaching for the pillow. It's more like, I'm going to be compassionate. I'm going to decide what that is. I vow to be compassionate is a little bit more open and vulnerable. I don't know what it is, but I vow to do it. That more like trains your unconscious. The unconscious is not that, you know, it doesn't have things together that well. So it gets educated in that way by your conscious vows, trains your unconscious. More like a relinking or something, or letting go. The unconscious kind of understands what compassion is about. Because it's such a mess down there. The unconscious isn't so, you know, I'm going to do this for you, and you're not helping me, and I'm helping you. It's not so much that way. It's too complex to be organized so well. That's why these verbal and physical volumes structures your unconscious in a good way.

[62:55]

To support the kind of conscious behavior, which is like compassion, which is not more karma. But isn't the aspect of the vow karmic though? Is that where you started? You can make karmic vows, but they're not Buddhist vows. They're kind of like preparatory, you know, developing some kind of good opportunities. We're talking about, this is infinite compassion. This isn't like trying to be compassionate. We're talking about actual, effective, infinite compassion, okay? Top of the line kind of stuff. It's like taking refuge in I don't know. Yeah. Right. And you can do things which are relatively wholesome, which set up the opportunity and the ability to do, to live a way which is actually compassionate, which is more to open yourself up to people and let your body respond. Or notice, not let your body respond, but see how your, the way your body's actually responding is compassionate.

[64:02]

Could you explain a little bit about what you mean by unconscious in this sense? What is that unconscious? Unconscious means what you're not consciously, objectively aware of. The context of any conscious moment is the unconscious. Once again? The context of any conscious moment would be the unconscious. You could say, well, the context or the background or the underground, it's part of what's going on. You can need to go to the toilet, you can be in a conversation with somebody and your body can feel like it needs to go, you know, eliminate some urine or something, And you can not be aware of that. And I can look at you and you might be fidgeting and not paying attention to what I'm saying. And I'm saying, you know, did you hear what I said? And you said, what? And I can't figure out why you can't pay attention to me. And I realize, oh, I think you have to go to the toilet. And you say, oh yeah, I do, thank you. And as soon as you realize it, you need to go or you can pay better attention to me because you're aware that actually you were aware that you needed to go but you weren't paying attention to it consciously.

[65:14]

That example sort of still involves me. I'm wondering, I mean, are we also talking about... No, it doesn't involve you. What? The phases of the moon and all... Before you said it involved you, I didn't think of it involving you. I was talking about... But the needing to go to the toilet does not necessarily involve you. It's just a physical thing. But you have awareness of it. It doesn't have to be operating at the level of I... my bladder, blah, blah, blah, and I need to do this. It doesn't have to be happening at that level. Matter of fact, a lot of stuff does go on that we are, that we do have awareness of, but it's not objective awareness. I use that example because it can move from unconscious to conscious easily, but some things can't. Some things stay unconscious and at that level there's no self. But it influences us, gives us information. But you know, it's not that important, actually, because we can't really work at that level that much until we bring it to consciousness.

[66:21]

So it's more like we work at the conscious level, and that's where we cause the trouble. We get into the world through the conscious activity of, I'm doing this, or I'm not going to pay attention to that I'm doing this. The level of karma is not subconscious. This I do stuff is at the level of discursive dualistic thinking. And we need to become aware of that. So when you say training the unconscious, it's kind of an infinite vow. It just goes in all directions to all... It can be infinite vows and it can be limited vows. They both train the unconscious. They shape the unconscious. We do not consciously understand, most people do not consciously understand how when you say, I vow to live for the welfare of all beings, most people do not understand how that registers on your body and mind. Most people are not aware of that. That's why they sometimes think they don't want to say it unless they can follow through on it.

[67:23]

But saying that changes you. But we don't see how it changes us because You can't see it. You can't see how it changes you. But it does change you. And the more sincerely you say it, the more clearly it changes you. But it changes you. But most people are not aware of how it changes them. You can figure it out scientifically or, you know, by experimenting with yourself, how you get changed by making these vows. But you can't... We cannot register... It is... What do you call it? It is not cognizable how you're changed when you make vows to practice precepts and... Or it's not cognizable how you're changed when you vow to do unwholesome things. And it's also... Vowing means when you verbally or physically vow, I'm talking about. Not just thinking. Thinking has an effect. But thinking does not transform the unconsciousness as much as speaking and bodily actions.

[68:24]

So what kind of gyro is given by sneaky Buddhism? I don't know. Younger? What is the relationship between mindfulness and compassion? What's the relationship? It seems like you were saying that if we could be mindful of our habitual... Mindfulness? Then compassion takes care of itself. Without intentionally being... You thought I said what? What did you think I said? That if we're mindful... Then we're compassionate without too much intention to be compassionate. Yeah, I think that's true. As you practice mindfulness, it develops your compassion. And if you're compassionate, you probably will come to realize that you need to practice mindfulness in order to develop your compassion. If you're mindful, you'll notice how you get into the world. and how the way you get into the world goes according to certain patterns, and how suffering arises from certain patterns.

[69:30]

And you'll naturally want to be relieved of those patterns. And you'll also notice other beings are in those patterns, and you'll naturally awaken that you'd like them to be free of it. Compassion is not the same as the skill and means by which you would be able to liberate yourself and beings from these patterns. But by mindfulness you will notice that you're suffering, that there's causes for the suffering, that you'd like to be free of this suffering, and that you'd want to work for that. This is all what comes with mindfulness of your human situation. Then with the compassion, you then go to work which then would be practicing more mindfulness in order to develop the skillful means. And then when you develop skillful means, then you put your compassion to work by using those skillful devices to liberate yourself and others. Mindfulness will be how you discover the workings of plunging into the world and the workings of compassion.

[70:39]

Mark hasn't asked a question yet. You know, one of the things that I do compulsively is breathe. I breathe and I don't think about it. But then when I actually think about my breath, I become more aware. When you're mindful of your breath? Yes. When I become aware, then I think about, well, I'm breathing now. It puts me right there in the present. But then how do you... So how does that, what's the next step? So there, I'm right there, and the way that I'm breathing out, breathing in, and where I'm breathing out. I'm having a dialogue with you. I'm aware of this. Yes. Then what? Well, I recommend not having a then what. Just be there with the breath. You being here with me and the rest of these people here, Being aware of your breathing, I don't think you need a then what. Get rid of the then what. I wouldn't get rid of it either. Because getting rid of it is another then what.

[71:50]

That's holding on to the what? That's holding on. What's holding on? Getting rid of it. Getting rid of it is holding on? Anyway, then what's arise. When people become present, they often then think, then what? Or now what? Okay? That's normal for a person who's present. There's such a problem to arise. It's happening to other people all day long, but it's not like present and then what. It's then what, then what, then what, then what. But then occasionally you notice, oh, I'm saying then what and I'm breathing. Hey, and then then what. There's a pause. There's a little break. You know, in a constant gaining and then what, and then what, and then what. When you come back to your breath, you were and then what-ing all over the place, right? And you weren't aware of your breath. You came back to your breath and there was a pause in the and then what. And you were present. And you said, great. And then what? So then you go away. Don't try to get rid of it. Just try to let it go.

[72:54]

Realize that and then what is not necessary. And then what is karma. Is the basis of karma. And then what means what do I do now When we're intimate with a situation, we think, oh, and now what? And then what? What should we do with this? What do we do next? We don't feel like, okay, now we're here together, and let's do that again. Let's let that happen again and again. No, we think, we've got to capitalize on this. We can't just stand here and be present. We feel very uncomfortable with this. It's very unfamiliar. We're very vulnerable when we're present. Now, when you're, and then what, and then what, and then what, you don't feel so vulnerable. You're just swinging from one thing to another. You're moving forward. You're this karmic machine. You don't feel so vulnerable because your own power is pushing things out of the way. You're not aware of your vulnerability. And also you're not aware, therefore you're not aware of how you're responding. Therefore you're not aware of how the Dharmakaya is manifesting.

[73:56]

But when you see how the Dharmakaya is manifesting, you get really nervous because... There's nothing you can do now. Your personal power is shot. You're just, you know, you're just a sight of the Dharmakaya manifesting. You're very happy, but... I've had enough of this, now what? That brings me back to a question I had at the end of last week. Instead of talking about Wang Bo, I'll talk about what you just said. If he keeps noticing, and then what? You said Wang Bo, when he keeps noticing that he's good at sleeping, he's so good at that, that he stops doing it. And that seems to me to be a direct contradiction to the idea that I mean, I have the feeling that he keeps doing it, but he keeps noticing. Well, when I say, I don't mean he stops doing it, like he necessarily intentionally stops doing it because that would be more drag-flipping.

[75:03]

But it does stop. Well, every moment it stops because every moment it changes. But I mean, you do evolve to a certain point. There is this thing that you can evolve to a certain point where you actually stop drag-flipping. And where you actually sit for a long time without saying, and then what? The and then what may arise, but it's like this. It's like that. It's not your and then what. And it's just as enjoyable as the birds in the night. Or just as awesome. You don't identify with what you hear. When you hear this and then what, you don't think, well, It's like with a bird, you don't go, you're not a cat, you don't go... You just enjoy it. And then what, which is torturing you, turns into celestial music.

[76:06]

In that sense it stops being a then and then what. It's just the music of your mind. So you do evolve to that point where what was once a hook and dragged you all over the place now becomes music. And you're just very, very happy about everything you hear. You're not happy that beings are suffering, but you're happy to hear their suffering so you can help them. You'd like to know the address of the next motion of your hand. You're happy to have job security. Jennifer? The question about the dogs reminds me of the image of my Catholic grandmother who said to Hail Mary and asked for crucifix whenever an ambulance would come by.

[77:10]

Or one of the baby cousins was piloting on the steps. Or when you said something bad might happen. And I don't think really that she did it consciously after having done it all her life. I mean, I think I would hear an ambulance and she would be, you know, I don't think, I mean, she might break her sentence, but she would still be listening to what you're saying. She'd still be starting with one hand or doing what she's doing. And it sort of seems like it's maybe almost the opposite of what reaching for the gun in the war of the night might be. I mean, if you... It's the opposite of reaching for the gun? It's the opposite of reaching for the pillow? No, you said what about reaching for the pistol? Right, right. And if there's a pistol under your pillow and you're afraid often enough of reaching, used to reaching for it in the night because you're an afraid person, and there it is, maybe it's an eventual action. You know, I mean, that you've trained your mind a different way.

[78:12]

And that's, that's maybe what the karma is. It might still be an unconscious action. But you've trained your mind to be reaching for a pistol instead of reaching for your rosary. Or, you know, another possible interpretation is that the person moves the rosary beads through the hand to remember this way of being. It's not that you do the rosary as a karmic act to protect the people who are in the ambulance, but you do the rosary to remind you about the way to be with whatever, because you don't know who's in the ambulance or whether there's anybody in the ambulance or whether... You don't know, but you're just getting yourself ready to respond. Right, and touching doesn't necessarily help. Right. You're ready.

[79:14]

You don't know what's going to be helpful. You're just making yourself available. And sometimes doing rosary beads and saying whatever helps you remember to put yourself in the way of being, like sitting. while reaching in the middle of the night, which is your way of being ready to respond appropriately. And let the dharmakaya manifest in response to beings through you, through your place, through your body, through your mind. Let yourself be a dharma resource. Make yourself at the disposal of beings Which, you know, you can also be at the disposal of yourself and be a nice person or whatever, that's fine. I don't, you know... For some of you people to be nice people is nice, because then I can respond to you as nice people, but, you know, I really, my preference, what I really hope for you to do is you don't skip over being this responsive being rather than this nice being.

[80:22]

rather than being a thing, that you're no fixed thing. You're just whatever beings make you. And therefore, you're beyond your ideas of helpfulness. You're free of your ideas of helpfulness. And you're really helpful. And you're showing other beings how to be helpful. But that brightness and that intensity is very hard to stand and not flip into a and then what or a now what when you get there. Very hard to just leave that alone. It's so bright. And if you say and then what, you get very scared. You want to buzz off into doing something good. Probably something good. When you come from that place, you first of all think of doing things pretty good, usually. But it won't be long before you think of doing something bad.

[81:24]

Even if you don't call it bad, it gets bad really fast from that place. Other places, of course, it's already bad. But at Harrisburg Deviation, you get way off really fast. So there's a strict side of compassion. We can be really bad, and we can be really good. So it's a big deal to sort of, like, be on the right side of the law. Do you want to go out to the next case next week, or is this enough on this one? Huh? Next case? Want to do the next case? How many people want to stay with this case? Okay, let's go to the next case, case 55. We're moving very rapidly here. Case 55, I'm sorry I don't have it for some of you.

[82:29]

If you check, come to the office during the week, you can pick one up. Or... It might be a... Let's just see what it is, shall we? It's a long one.

[82:51]

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