So I'm in a little bit of a dilemma because... No. No. Okay. We kind of have some kind of finishing business, but to get the new people into the unfinished business would probably mean to get to get into the finished part of the unfinished business, which would take a long time. So I wondered how to address the unfinished business without bringing up the whole business? Or do you forget the whole thing and just move on to new business? But I think I just want to say this, which I won't bring up the last case.

[01:08]

By the way, we have, you can, some of you have not studied this case, the Book of Christianity before, is that right? So we're in the middle of the book, you know. And we're on case 55 out of 100 cases. So there's 54 cases before this. Several years this class has been going on. This class has been going on for several years. Well, seven years. So in six or seven years, we've done 55 cases. And so you're welcome and encouraged to study the first 55 cases. And if you don't have the whole book, do you have the whole book?

[02:10]

You do? No. So if you read the first 55 cases, of course, that's a lot of material. And tonight, for example, we'll refer to one of the earlier cases. But these cases can be studied one by one. You don't have to have the first 55 cases. Although it would be different if you had studied 55 cases, it would be different. But you can actually drop in and start studying this first case here. And Unfinished business from the last class relates to the issue that I think is a very important issue for Americans. And that is that we have, not just in America, it is possible for a human being

[03:18]

to actually have a profound enough insight into what's going on to experience liberation and suffering. Have you heard about that, that possibility? Has anybody heard? Hasn't heard about that? You have not heard about that? OK. So that's a question. That's a possibility for human beings held up by some people, that if you can understand truth of the way things are, you can become liberated from enchantment or subjugation to the way things aren't. And you can obtain salvation, personal salvation. And it is possible, I say to you, it is possible to obtain personal salvation without an accompanying, a concomitant partner of great compassion.

[04:37]

And so it's possible to have a person who personally has great understanding, and not to suffer from suffering, and yet not have great compassion. And by great compassion I mean not just caring about other people, but actively working to help other beings realize freedom of themselves. That is a possible situation for human beings to be in. And I brought that up in the last class. It was quite an exciting conversation to follow that. But I still see off of that as something that could happen here among us human beings who are involved in spiritual study, spiritual practice, that more of us can attain personal liberation. But that liberation does not necessarily have to be coupled with great compassion.

[05:50]

Personal liberation does not make a Buddha A Buddha is a being who is the way of being, where there's personal liberation conjoined with great compassion. That's a Buddha. The Arhat? Is what the Arhat? It's a cath of an Arhat. Personal liberation without compassion. Without great compassion. Without great compassion. Yes, that's the Arhat idea, personal liberation. And the difference between compassion means you hope other people will be happy, you hope other people will be free, you hope other people will be at peace. That's compassion. Compassion is not, the way I use the word, compassion is not just that you feel sorry for people. It's not just that you feel bad, that they're suffering. It's that you would like them not to suffer. And it bothers you to some extent.

[06:56]

But great compassion bothers you a lot. It bothers you so much that you can't actually tolerate it. And Buddhists have that kind of compassion. Other people suffering is intolerable. At the same time, they're personally free. And nobody bothers them. Nobody can bother them. Nobody can hassle them. In any way. But also, arhats can't bother an arhat either. You can't bug an arhat. You can't get arhats riled up. You can't. They're totally cool. I mean, I mean, you know, like, really, unbelievable, no, unbelievable, inconceivable self-control and self-restraint and self-discipline.

[08:02]

They're really free. You can't bug them, nobody can bug them. And they have compassion. They would like people to be free. They want people to be happy. They have loving kindness, okay? But they do not have this vow powerful wish to do everything possible to free all beings. They don't have that necessarily. If they don't have that, they're not a Buddha. Buddha, our Buddha, our Shakyamuni Buddha was an aha. Couldn't bug him, but he was also a Bodhisattva. He wanted to help other beings. He put those two together as liberating insight with great compassion that brings the Buddha. So I'm bringing this up because I think that there's some ahas in a way, close to ahas in the American society. I think we can have this kind of people.

[09:04]

They're not necessarily bodhisattvas. I just mentioned that. And I think some Zen students kind of confess that they aren't really, they don't want to be bodhisattvas. They want personal liberation. Some Zen students, they come to Zen Center or some Zen saying, they find out about the bodhisattva and they confess humbly and kind of ashamed, you know, I actually want to come free myself. This bodhisattva thing is not that strong in it. So, as I mentioned this morning to a group of priests, the unit of liberation is individual. Individuals are liberated. You don't liberate groups because groups are not diluted. Individuals are diluted. Individual beings don't understand themselves, and therefore individuals are imprisoned by their own lack of understanding about themselves.

[10:06]

So the unit of liberation is the individual who thinks that she is independent, and she becomes free of that sense of independence. Individual is the unit of liberation. Okay, I say that. If anybody wants to argue, you're welcome to do so. but then here's the punchline is, but the mode or the unit of exaltation is the Buddha or the family. It's one thing to be liberated, it's another thing to become a god, a goddess, to become divine. And in order to become divine, like the Buddha, you now have to become free of your own problems and your own ignorance, But you have to use a group. You have to use a group, family, and share that. Then we realize it's a divinity. We'd be like Buddhahood.

[11:07]

Bodhisattvas vowed to realize Buddhahood in order to bring that whole family with them. Or they vowed to bring the whole family with them and attain Buddhahood, the other way you want to put it. So I just mentioned that just because these koans, in a way, are about, their meditation is about, in some ways, personal liberation. Now bodhisattvas sometimes are in these stories. These stories are about personal awakening experiences. And the landscape of religious life is that there's personal liberation in a field of the work of bringing a whole group into it. And so that's part of the reason why we have this class. And so the group can participate in the process of liberation.

[12:19]

Tonight, people don't seem to be quite as excited by this. I'm curious to go. I don't know what happened to me. Some people thought I was saying that you could be enlightened to such an extent as attain personal liberation that you wouldn't care about other people, that you would hurt others. I didn't mean that. That's not what I mean. A person who retained personal liberation would not hurt other people. You can't be personally liberated and hurt people. But the part that I think is hard for people to get is that you could be personally liberated, and part of that would be that people don't bug you anymore, and they don't bug you that they don't hurt you, but also it doesn't really hurt you that much that other people are suffering. It doesn't hurt you so much. You can be personally liberated and not be kind of like incapacitated in a certain way by other people's suffering.

[13:32]

End with that. Um, well, the question I have is that, you know, if you're talking about how long you find liberation is to have the geography between itself and other kind of deteriorate, and it seems like that was the case, and you're liberated, basically, and you're, you know, [...] and you're suffering, you're, you know, so if you're not feeling your suffering, then, you know, And you wouldn't be liberated if you can show how to tell yourself. Right. Well, it's a little bit... Basically, I agree with you. And what I'm saying, though, is that you're liberated from your own suffering. So you're also liberated from other people's suffering. Even if you feel their suffering. I mean, be such a person, you could, you know... I mean, isn't the definition of suffering like it's to not have a separation between self-intervention?

[14:42]

Isn't that how you define suffering? Well, it's the other way around. Suffering is when you do make yourself separate from other beings. That's the definition of suffering. Right. Do you want to have a seat? Do you want to come in and have a seat? Do I? Instead of standing up the whole time? I try. There's seats up here. Yeah, okay, but fine. There's a seat up here and there's a seat up here if you want to. Yeah, so that point was made that wouldn't you be free of your sense of separation from others? So wouldn't you care about them as much as you care about yourself? The answer is yes. And it isn't that you don't care about yourself anymore. It's that you're free from your own suffering. You're free from the suffering from separate separation, plus you're free of suffering of your personal pain, sickness, and that kind of thing too. I'm saying you are open. You're free of the separation.

[15:45]

Okay? And you want people to be free. Okay? Yeah, you could say you could be completely vulnerable and it wouldn't bother you. And the suffering that other people experience, you could be subjected to suffering far greater than theirs and it wouldn't bother you either. I'm not saying that such a person could not then, you know, if a Buddha came up to such a person and told them what was possible for them in terms of spiritual evolution, they might say, okay, great, I'd like to join that course. I never thought that was possible. If they actually met a Buddha and the Buddha tipped them off so they could see the Buddha and understand the Buddha's further understanding, they would probably be drawn into that further course of study.

[16:55]

They probably would. But if they didn't run into such a person and they themselves experienced this kind of liberation, this liberation would actually work In other words, they would actually be free of suffering. And even the suffering that they felt from being around other suffering beings, which they would not be close to, they'd be free of that too. And it wouldn't be they say, I don't care about these people who say I'd like to be happy, but it wouldn't get to them. They'd actually be free of all kinds of suffering. They would be actually completely free of suffering. They would be like happy in a way that you could not assail it, no matter what you did, no matter how much suffering beings you showed them, it wouldn't hurt them. No, but Buddha had that type. But that was the type he probably had in the previous life even. We have stories of Buddha's past lives that look like in past lives he attained that even.

[17:57]

that kind of thing. But there's one story in the Diamond Stitcher where he says, when I was, when I was, it's time of King, whoever it was, King Kalinda, you know, I was, basically I was flayed, but I didn't get angry because, you know, it's free of sense of self. If you didn't get angry, people were flaying him. So even in a past life, Buddha attained that kind of freedom. And I think, as we were talking about, you start to get many some scared feelings, right? But I'm proposing that there is such a possible state that you could be free of suffering of your own. And other people suffering, you know, if you see other people suffering, if you saw it, you'd be free of that too. You probably would wish yourself, well, if you were being played, you probably say, yeah, I hope I'm happy, I hope I'm at peace. You could see other people suffering, you would hope that they're happy and at peace. You would, but it wouldn't get to you.

[18:58]

That's what I'm proposing. Now, that stage is a stage on the way to being Buddha. One doesn't necessarily stay there forever, especially if a Buddha comes up to you and tells you, fine, you're swell. And you say, I know I'm swell. And you say, would you please come with me now? I'd like to take you to where it's really at. And the Buddha point out this person, there's quite a bit more work to be done here. This stage is sometimes pictured, what do you call it? The lotus up to this stage is sometimes a metaphor symbolized by a magical city. And one story is that someone told some people about this magical city, and they followed the person to the magical city, and it was a magical city. And when they got there, the person said, this is just a magical city, it's actually a mirage, and this is only halfway from the trip. But you need a Buddha to tell these arhats that this is just a magical city. Their freedom is not the real freedom.

[20:07]

Yes? Well, I think this person has some confidential theory that somebody who's a guest called me about the fact that she had met this person who taught... They basically were talking like this, but they didn't really see any differences between people and things, and it was all, and they didn't suffer anymore, and they were using that kind of language. I think she heard it on the radio or something, and sees clients and stuff. So she thought she, you know, she was interested. But she had this, she got afraid, actually, because there was... She did think that he wasn't speaking the truth, but there was something writing about this. Right. So this was just, we had this long conversation about compassion and yada yada.

[21:08]

It was exactly, really, it was just right from that class. Right. Was that an NPR last night? That's the beginning of it. Was he a German girl with a German accent? He's a therapist? Not the same day. So, the The idea that a person would be liberated to that extent and in some sense not care about certain other problems is frightening, isn't it? But I'm saying I'm telling you about something that might be frightening for you to hear. But there is such a situation and part of what that allows is that a person with this kind of, I would call it, this kind of, if there was such a person, such a person would, I don't know, such a person could team up with certain political figures, for example, who wanted to do certain things, which some people might feel were harmful to beings.

[22:16]

And this person who would have considerable religious authority or spiritual authority could go along with some things in some ways. In that way, an authentic religious experience could be coupled with activities where some other religious people might feel they're not necessarily kind or necessarily promoting the welfare of all beings. Such things could happen. And so I mention that because that last chapter in the last case we're talking about was about great compassion. And... So this is just part of the complications of spiritual life. I just wanted you to hear, not exactly know about, but hear about such possibilities and be aware, in some sense, that what Zen Buddhism is about

[23:18]

integrating this development of great compassion with the process of personal liberation, which includes that allowing some people to be at Zen Center who are not interested in great compassion and are only interested in personal liberation. And just before they get there, we . And that's part of the meaning, you know, that's one interpretation of the famous cartoon, you know, what you find in, what you find often in Playboy or other magazines like that. You read Playboy? Huh? You read Playboy? Do I read it? Yeah. I'm on the staff. Oh, good! The cartoon is this guy, this guy drives up to the monastery, right? In his big, long car, and he's got a big cigar in his mouth, and, uh, And the monk come up to visit him, and they say, thanks for coming back to visit us after your graduation.

[24:20]

So some idea that you can attain liberation after his practice, you could be a cad, or at least have a cad. and then go back and visit your old pals in the monastery. And that's not really the Buddhist way. The Buddhist way is maybe not to get a big car to graduate. But keep your concern for others, almost. Personal liberation is very important. So again, that's what we're studying here. It's very important to understand what's going on and become free. And what gets free is people like you and me. But we have to also remember this great compassion. And that's what we were studying in that last case, great compassion.

[25:28]

This case will not look so compassionate. Matter of fact, this case, The last line in this case is, and nobody will be able to get through with him. Nobody in the world will be able to bother with him. That's the last line in this case. Nobody will be able to affect him. So that kind of language sounds something like what I'm talking about. But I feel that in this story, that's not the context. That's kind of the old business. I think Raj and then, please. Yeah, I always thought, yeah, the way I understood in the stories about the Bodhisattva vow is kind of like it's choice in thought, that you choose not to have just personal liberation, you choose not to embody the Bodhisattva vow. The way you're describing it, though, is more like that you don't have a choice, it's just the suffering bugs you, and you can't

[26:32]

You can't do anything about that. Yeah. I think it's more like that. Of course, some people, like us, do choose the Bodhisattva. We hear about how good it is. We hear about how necessary it is. We hear that Buddhists do that. So we do that too, okay? Which is a fine way to take the Bodhisattva. I want to help all beings. That's great. But there's another way that's more powerful, and that is when you have a choice, it isn't something you choose or I choose. It's something that happens when you actually have direct communion with Buddha. It's actually when you're enlightened in a certain way. Then you can't stand it. In order to not be able to stand it, you already have to be a little bit enlightened. You already have to give up a lot of your personal gaining ideas in order to even open up to this intolerable compassion.

[27:39]

So a lot of people who are on the bodhisattva path are not yet in that no alternative kind of bodhisattva path where they just don't have any choice. A lot of us, it just seems like a really good idea, and we really feel good about it. But the actual bodhisattva is something that we have to kind of like work our way up to. Partly by getting some personal liberation. So I'm talking a little bit different. This is like a hard sell for an arnav. To say like, I'm going to bring it to the next level where it's going to be involved. Well you wouldn't sell them. The only thing we could sell arnav probably would be a great bodhisattva or a Buddha because These people are very, I mean, most people who are aspiring to Buddhahood or are dedicated to bodhisattva path, they do not have that kind of insight that the arhat has.

[28:45]

They look up to an arhat in terms of spiritual attainment. But they're on a much grander and more authentic spiritual truth, Buddha said. But they probably couldn't convert an arhat. Someone wanted to show the arhat the advantages of being a Buddha. Arhas actually understand that Buddhas are better than ever. But they don't even think it's really reasonable. They don't think it's possible. Take a Buddha that said, you know, basically you say to the person, you know, this is your thing. I can see it, you know, where they say, this is you. This is you. This is your, this is the thing for you. You're actually got, you're Buddha material. You take it from me. This Arha thing The sour hot thing is really not, it's not very good potatoes for you. But you'd have to be somebody who knew what those kind of potatoes did for convention. Then, once a person's, what do you call, kindled or whatever, hooked, then they find out that it's the power.

[29:50]

Then they feel this need, this funny need. to have all beings learn what you know. Actually, what you teach all beings, they don't have to learn anymore. The arhats know enough. All you've got to do is get them to know as much as you. That's all. If they all knew what the arhat knew, they'd all be fine. So the arhat then tries to teach them all what he or she knows. By the way, there are women arhats in history. Buddha, had some Buddha, had some female art lot students. So you wouldn't, you don't, the Buddha did not start off by saying, you know, you're going to have this incurable pain in your heart, blah, blah, blah. Unincurable, intolerable pain. And he just told them, basically, you're going to make it, you're going to make it, and actually, you're going to be, and actually, I'm not even going to tell you the name that you're going to have when you're a Buddha, and tell you the name of your disciples, and what your Buddha's going to look like.

[30:57]

It's sort of big happy news, but then it started off. Liz? Well, when I understood it before when we got out of that position, and what did he do, he found it like two different kinds of people, two different kinds of people, and he couldn't tell the difference. Pardon? You couldn't? It's easy to tell the difference between them. Very easy to tell the difference. But their enlightenment is basically the same. By their vows. You tell the viewers by their vows. Just bond with that. Yeah, that's all you tell the difference. Just ask them, what are you up to? And the one is up to, you know, wishing everyone well and being totally happy.

[32:01]

They have unassailable happiness. And they're going to split after this life. They're not coming back anymore. They're going to check out. They're not going to come back into this little box called birth and death. This birth and death thing, they understand, is actually this whole birth and death trip is just an illusion. They're not fooled by it anymore. And they're not going to play anymore. This is the last time they're going to play this. I'll tell you that. If you can get up to talk to them, that's actually what's going to happen. They're not coming back. And their understanding is sufficient to actually check out of this world where things come and go. OK? and they do not have the vow to save all beings, and also they don't know how to save all beings. Bodhisattvas, the great bodhisattvas, had the understanding by which they could check out of this world where things come and go, where there's birth and death.

[33:07]

They know how to check in, they know how to check out, they could check out and not come back, bodhisattvas, the great ones. They have the same enlightenment as the arhats. But they either know how or are about to learn how to liberate all other beings. So they have all kinds of skillful means to liberate other beings. And if they don't have the skillful means that some being needs, they vow to learn whatever it takes to help that person become free. So their enlightenment is the same, but their skill and means are much different. Harhad's do not vow to develop a skill in me. But one, the Arhat has unassailable happiness. They're going to be completely checked out, but they don't necessarily know anything about physics, chemistry, interior design, music, painting, cooking, so on and so forth, they don't know how to help people in all those realms.

[34:16]

Bodhisattvas will learn all those things in order to help beings who are in all those realms. So that would be a difference in their vows. Buddhas, same understanding, same enlightening, but they, not only do they have this same knowledge of all these different modes of how to help people. But they have that understanding in all different possible angles. So the basic liberating enlightenment of the Buddhas, the Bodhisattvas, and now it's the same, but add these other layers of skill by which the whole group can be incorporated into this process. And that's a big difference. Arhats could tell the difference, and those other people could tell the difference. You can tell the difference. There is a difference. Yeah, you might not, by just looking at them, you wouldn't have said they'd tell the difference.

[35:22]

But they're teaching with the difference. By interacting. By interacting, you could, yeah. What you meant, in Arhat, you probably, if you had a chance to talk to an Arhat, you'd probably spend quite a bit of time I mean, I would spend quite a bit of time just enjoying that they were not hot, just being inspired by what they were before I got into what they weren't. Then after I found out that somebody was not hot, I might try to say, now, I wonder if this is also a Bodhisattva here. And then I might try to find out, do we have by some chance a Buddha here? This would be, you know, if you had a chance to have an extended conversation with such a person, that would be, you know, you might want to talk about those things. But to me, an Arha would be a wonderful thing. Have you ever got one? I don't know if I even have, actually. I mean, where did it hang out? Starbucks.

[36:23]

They hang out on, well, they hang out on planet Earth. You may check out. But I've never met anybody who said that they were not hot. But I've met people who I think maybe had that bodhisattva heart, even if they are healthy. But there are not people like that. You know, the heart that can't, maybe not can't, but really be happy because cares about some type of other person. In Zen, the Zen monks, we venerate the Karhats even though we do not pretend to be our hearts. We don't want to be our hearts, but we want to understand what they do. Okay, Liz?

[37:24]

I thought... Well, it seems like it's almost evil to allow evil, isn't it? Yeah, that's what we were talking about. Because you were there. Yeah. And there's very little evidence of these arhats doing much about the evils of the world. You know? Whatever arhats there have been since the time of Buddha, if you look at the stories of the male and female arhats that the Buddha had as disciples, there's very little evidence of them doing anything to stop the evil of the society which was like out there around them.

[38:26]

I don't know very many stories of these arhats. There are some of these arhats busting evil empires. Bodhisattvas will bust evil empires. What I don't understand, or to me it seems inconceivable, what triggers the opening of the heart with sun and not with others? What triggers? To me, it sort of seems inconceivable. Communion with believers. The two don't have them at the same time. The liberation isn't simultaneous with the opening of the heart. I just couldn't imagine any other ones. But I guess it was always right. Ah, well, there's different sized hearts. Different sized hearts. One size of heart is kind of like your own body. The size of your own body. Another heart's much bigger than that. So I say, if you look at the history of Buddhism, the Buddha even told his disciples to stay away from military installations.

[39:36]

And so I told him to stay away from these situations where a lot of evil was happening. And even the Buddha didn't necessarily do much about these evil things that are going on in some cases. Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't. Sometimes he could, sometimes couldn't. He knew which cases he could have an influence. Like one time, he did stop an army. But generally speaking, these enlightened beings of the Buddhist disciples, they were not necessarily bodhisattvas. They were not necessarily out there in the trenches, in the bad neighborhoods, in the brothels, in the bars. and so on. They weren't out there. They just said they were absolutely away from those places. Now, of course, they were sometimes helping sick people, doing things like that. But that's not like preventing evil, that's just somebody's sick and they help them. They didn't necessarily stop the people from doing the things that caused the set up the situation in the first place.

[40:41]

So in a way, it's a kind of evil to allow the whole world. So in that sense, all of us, you could say, are evil to the extent that we allow any kind of harm to happen on the planet, right? And I said, yeah, that's great. Now imagine that if we were enlightened more and still do, that's also possible. And to feel okay somehow, that's also possible. What I'm saying is that there's another stage where you don't feel okay. You still may be allowed, but you're like in intolerable pain about it. And that's... And that comes to a person with communion with Buddha. In other words, you can be enlightened to some extent without having communion with Buddha. You can receive part of Buddha's teaching, part set you free, without receiving a whole Buddha teaching, which is about teaching information of Buddha.

[41:45]

So Buddha sometimes gives us the kind of teaching which we want. If we want to be personally liberated, Buddha will give us teaching to be personally liberated, then we'll be personally liberated, then Buddha will come and say, I've got a bigger job for you. Some people get the Buddha message before the person liberated. Some people get it back. So it comes from within. But it comes from within, but it comes with this communion with Buddha within, the Buddha new communion, whatever it is. You can't make this come. Buddha can't make it come. But sometimes it happens that you need Buddha. And then you're that kind of a person. And your heart's bigger than the heart that's... Most people's hearts are for their own body. Keep their own body going. Which is fine. And you can become free of that problem. That's the one that's concerning about this one. And there's another heart, which the only way to come free of that heart is to set all days free.

[42:51]

We also had that. OK. Anything else on this devastating topic? I said that there were events of our house. I'll take it back that there's no evidence. I don't know of any stories of Aarhus going into battle scenes and trying to stop the war. I'll take it back a little bit. I'll take it back a little bit. It's not a concept. I don't know of any stories. of specific people labeled as arhats who have traveled to diamond. And in this story capacity, where they would come with this label as arhats, even though they would that be arhats.

[44:06]

I know of arhats doing kind of thing to people like the Buddha. You know, I know cases of the Buddha. I once, you know, the Buddha generally recommended not touching people. But I didn't touch men. I had men that didn't touch men. And definitely men not touching women. So I wondered if there's any cases where the Buddha actually touched someone. And I found some cases of the Buddha touching someone from some people. But it didn't impact people on the back like that. It shed hands for people. Well, you know, so... But in some cases of some sick people, he in and out found a sick guy, and they didn't take the person, he in and out took the person and dress their wounds and stuff. And it changed, he was, this guy was really a wreck, and the brother did actually get in there and clean up the person's wounds and change the person's filthy garments and stuff like that. So in our cases, the brother did that kind of thing. But that's not exactly what I was talking about in terms of actually stopping something, being with activity.

[45:13]

This is like somebody who's suffering. The Buddha did get in and help to get up with their suffering, that's for sure. But in certain kind of active way, Bodhisattva is about itself. Well, actually, in previous life, the Buddha did do some things, not only he was a Buddha, but only in previous existence, he did do things. But the arhats don't seem to be that active. The 40s, however, are active. They really work. They really work. And that's what it takes to make a Buddha. You don't have to be so self-sacrificed. You don't have to be so out there for everyone to see to still be spreading this compassion.

[46:22]

Maybe it's not such a thing that you or I could notice someone else doing. Maybe it's that through their experience just It acts like being noticed is in itself creating more suffering. Yeah. But that's the case with Bodhisattvas too. Not too, but that's the case with Bodhisattvas. Actually, most of their activity, people do not notice. If you're watching, People don't, generally speaking, spot them doing their stuff. Generally, they do it. Now, it's not the hiding, but generally speaking, people don't notice what they're doing when they're being helpful. They actually do it in a way that they don't get blamed for all the good things and all the evil that they stop. So the not noticing part definitely might be the case even though it's happening. But I'm just saying it's possible to aspire to a narrower religious goal. And it's not that you aren't doing some good, but your actual aspiration is personal liberation.

[47:29]

That is allowed in Buddhism. It is allowed that you would aspire to personal liberation. From the early days up till now, it's OK. Even in a Zen Zen, it's OK to aspire to personal liberation. And if that's where you're at, then that's where you're at. And it's OK. And some people are successful, and they're successful at that, and then they say, that's it. I'm done. I came for that. I got it. And I'm on it. Anybody need case 55? There it is. And that's scary that that will be the case. Because we want enlightened beings to be helpful to everybody big time. Yeah, it's an exhibition, yeah.

[48:31]

We would hope that, but it's not necessarily the case. They already got to get any idea. That's part of their problem. That's part of what the Buddha was pointing out to them. is that they got a gaining idea. And you had them successful at it. Okay, so here's our case, here's our story, case 55. And so the background of the story, have we read the story yet? No. Did we start? Ever? No? No. OK. So the main characters are three main characters. Shui Phong. Shui Phong. Huh? Shreifeng. Shreifeng. Shreifeng.

[49:34]

Shreifeng. Shreifeng. And then Yantou. Yantou. And Deshan. Deshan. Okay, so Deshan is a teacher of Shreifeng and Yantou. He's their teacher. He's their master. Okay? Okay. So one time Sri Phong was at Deshan. So Deshan is the name of the teacher, but it's also the place. The place is Deshan. And the monastery is Dashaan, and the teacher's called Dashaan, too, OK? Be like if there was a teacher there called Zensen, Master Green Gulch. So you say, you know, Klaus was at Green Gulch, right? And he was the rice cook. And one day, Camille was late, so then Master Greengalt came to the teaching hall, holding his bowl.

[50:40]

And Trepan said, talking to his teacher like this, right? Old man, Could be, old man. I say, I say, old man, the bell hasn't rung yet. The drone hasn't been sounded. Where are you going with your bull? And Master Dershon immediately returned to his room. Okay, got that part? Can you imagine? Could happen, right? So like a great klaus goes to head cook here, you know? And the Master of Green Gulch all of a sudden showed up with his bowl. You know, this is like... Now, is he seen now? Or what? He's cooking lunch or something. And suddenly the Master, his teacher, the Master of Green Gulch comes with his bowl. It's not anywhere near lunchtime.

[51:44]

It's like about 10.30, right? It says the meal was late. Oh, so he's on time. He's on time, the meal's late. Okay. So he's on time, the meal's late. So he says, it's not time yet. So then the old guy goes back to his room. All right? And then Klaus tells Susan about this. And Susan says, Even Lord Master Gringo, so great, does not understand the last word. Is Deshawn, is he going to the right place? I mean, is he... Let's say it's in the teaching hall. Is he going, like, did he show up in the Zendo and we're going to be having a formal party meal? Because why is the cooking teaching all that? Um, well, that's the best thing to think about.

[52:47]

I'm not sure exactly. So why would this party even run into him in the teaching hall and be in the kitchen, sort of like trying to get the meal out? Yeah. So, well, one possible thing is that what could have happened was they didn't, you know, the meal's late, right? But the teacher comes out of time anyway. The other monks didn't come, because they're waiting for the bell and the drum to signal the meal. But the master comes on time anyway, even though he doesn't hear the thing. For whatever reason, he comes on time, bought on time probably, and some monk sees him going there and runs and tells the cook. He said, the master's going to the hall even though you haven't sounded the bell. So then he runs over to the hall and says, hello, man. What are you doing here? Go back. Not exactly go back, but it's not ready. I think they're so lovable. OK, so then he goes back, OK?

[53:49]

So at this point, I have to tell a story, which some of you have heard before. So one day, I was at the San Francisco Zen Center. One morning, it was sashim, and the wake-up bell was rung early. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So then the monks got up, and then the person rung the wake-up bell somehow in the process was informed that he was an hour early. And when he went around, And back around the hall telling everybody, go back to bed. It's a mistake, go back to bed. And then, after I forget about that same thing, about that same time, as I see the wake of the person trying to get everybody to go back to bed, I'm standing there, I don't know where I am, standing in the hall for some reason. I don't know whether I have my robes on or not, but anyway, I'm in the hall there, trying to figure out what's going on, and Cindy Kureshi comes trotting down the hall with his robes on, not going to the Zendo.

[55:01]

They're down to the Zendo. I think the wake-up person told him, too, you know, sorry to go back to bed, but he just went down there anyway. He went down there and sat. And nobody came. One person came. Everyone went. Oh, God. Oh, no. One person went down and sat with a mask. And that person... or a psychotic. So then, it's only one psychotic thing. So then we just went back up to the room.

[56:04]

And then all the monks went down later. Then the monks got up a little bit. Then he went up and rang again. All the monks got up and went down. Then he came down and was in there. After all, they sat there. And he said, wake up while it was young. Early morning, wake up, the person said, oh, it's early. We go back to bed. So you all went back to bed. He said, what? And then he got up off his chair, a little old guy, a little tiny Japanese guy, not too much longer to live. He took a step, and I was the first person, but I was sitting next to him. He was really harsh. And he went really hard. And he'd get everybody. By the time he got to the last day, he got to do his song.

[57:08]

But he really hit us all hard. with that question, what are you doing here, what are you doing here, I'll go back here, whatever. Anyway, these kinds of things are, that story comes to mind here, okay? Why did he do that? Because he loved us, that's why he did us. Because we were all a bunch of fools, that's why he did us. He's kind of like, oh, we're, you know, knocking. Yeah, being lazy, right. Like, the wake-up bell rings early, so then you think, oh, it's early, so then I, you know, I won't get up, right? But, you know, Zen's about, like, the bell rings at this time, so that's not the right time, so I'll wait for the right time. Well, he was so stupid, he didn't, you know, he went anywhere, right? But who went, you know, in a psychotic way? All the good months were real smart, you know, he stayed in bed. But really, kind of like, you know, what are we doing here?

[58:13]

Really, you know. There's a serious side to it, you know. If the bell's ringing and the teacher went to the Zendo, how come the other people didn't go? Isn't that funny? Now, wouldn't you throw a bunny in the house as it goes to the Zendo and you didn't go with them? Of course you would, wouldn't you? You know, I don't know what happened there. I don't know if she's still in the Zandora, if she went, you know, left the Zandora. Maybe when we all went down there, she went up actually. Anyway, so this is a story where a teacher goes to an event And in some way, he's not supposed to be there. So the head cook comes and tells him, you know, this isn't, you know, what are you doing? So he goes back.

[59:14]

This is like Stulky version. He went back when the wake of the old person said, okay, you know. He didn't really go back. He wasn't saying no. Nobody came and he went back. I don't like that. Huh? He did sit. He sat there for a while and nobody came. Huh? And he went somewhere else. He went back to his room and then waited for us all to get up. And then when he realized we weren't coming, he left and went back to his room. Then we all came. Then he came down and said, you know, what are you doing? And then did this, which I think, I guess, I just guess everybody really, I know, was deeply touched by his love for us, I guess. I mean, that's what I felt. That felt like a very kind thing that he did for me. deeply impressed upon me. We don't have much time here. Here we have an opportunity to sit together, practice meditation together, an hour early.

[60:15]

No, no, we don't do it now. We do it later. This is not my contract. The schedule says, you know, blah, blah, so forget the wake-up bell. Who cares? This is a Jewish sitting there. That kind of thing. So this story is reminding me. So then Shrekong told Yanto, and Yanto says, even Deshan, so great, doesn't understand the last word. And Deshan heard about this, right? That's what I think. Doesn't say so, but he heard about this. Like Yanto said, our teacher, he's great, but he doesn't understand the last word. And then Shreipong, if somebody overhears this, or Shreipong tells somebody that Yanto said that, and gets back to the teacher, and the teacher calls Yanto in and says, you don't agree with me? You don't agree with me?

[61:19]

You don't agree with me? I went early. And then when he said that I went back to my room, you don't agree with that behavior? You don't agree with that behavior? You know, my dear disciples, you don't agree with that? Understand? And then... And then here's kind of an interesting part of the story coming over here. Jan told and expressed what he meant. But we're not told what he said. Huh? What? Yeah. No. No, he didn't. Nobody knows. Except Yanto and Darshan, what Yanto told him. We know that Yanto explained to him what he meant, what he said.

[62:22]

Even the master, so great, doesn't understand the last word. He explained to him what he meant, and then Darshan stopped. Okay? The next day, the master, Dashaan, went up to the teaching hall again to speak. And it was not the same as usual. He was changed by what had happened there with his disciples. And Yanto clapped his hands and laughed and said, happily, the old guy understands the last word. Hereafter, no one in the world would be able to have any effect. In other words, my teacher's finally got. Finally, finally, finally, I got my teacher. It's really good. Is that what it means?

[63:22]

This is one of these stories that I feel like what we have to do here, I mean, we cannot figure this story out. The information is missing. It seems like the only thing that can be done here is we have to sort of get back there and be there before this story happens. And then watch it happen. Yes? This seems to me like going back to one of the previous columns we just studied about the ass looking in the low, the low looking back at the ass. The teacher got there too early, and it wasn't ready yet. In other words, it wasn't a complete joint at the same time. And perhaps the teacher not getting there at the same time didn't get it. Really, the joint has to be complete.

[64:28]

That just seems like to you at this time, that what happened? It could be what Yanto expressed to him, that we don't know. It could have been my old man. By getting there in the time that you considered right, it basically had to look back at you at that time. But how could that be? that you could look at the well and the well wouldn't be ready to look at that than you. Well, it couldn't be. Huh? Right, it's like a metaphor. I mean, it's, you couldn't. Oh my God. In reality, it couldn't. So, what did he say? Well, I'm saying that he might, that Jantel might mean that his missing the timing was a metaphor for not understanding that, or not manifesting that concept of joining.

[65:45]

But he wasn't teaching. He wasn't teaching the concept of the seal by getting there at the good time. The master wasn't teaching properly, basically, but you're simple. The disciples saying, you didn't teach so well that day when you went early. That wasn't good teaching, teacher. Yeah. That's what it sounds like. I agree. That's what it sounds like. When Shreifong told Yanta, Yanta always said, the old boy doesn't understand the last word. Not understanding the last word means doesn't understand how to teach it, yes. I mean, that's a good guess, right? Doesn't understand how to teach. Teacher's not teaching it. Because the teacher doesn't understand something. Maybe Yatra doesn't understand either, but at least he can.

[66:47]

Sometimes you can see somebody else's problem, even though you've got the same problem. Sometimes you can see somebody else's problem, even though you have the same problem. Sometimes you can see somebody else's problem, even though you have the same problem. Is that possible? Yes. You can be blind and see somebody else's blind, but the sounds in there gets this tumble around the roof. even though you can't see. So it isn't necessarily that Yanto is all that super sharp, that he's better than his teacher. But maybe he's enough to see that his teacher has some problems. Maybe that's what this is about. But I want to say again that I have this feeling about the story. The feeling about the story is that it requires us to leap back and be there when the story happened, to be there before the story starts. and watch it unfold and see what you do. How else are we going to find out what Yantou told him?

[67:49]

Everybody's going to speculate about what Yantou, not everybody. Some people might try to guess what Yantou told his teacher. His teacher said, you don't agree with me? You don't think I did the right thing by coming early and going back when I got to the information? You see what I'm saying? Somehow you have to, you have to, I have to, we have to read this story in such a way as to, we have to read this story in such a way that we can do, that some kind of a miracle is going to happen. We're going to be in this story. I think we have to do that, don't we? There's not enough information here given to us. We have to get something else going here. We have to go back to when this story happened. You mean the meal's not ready yet? Well, the cook was late, it's true. Do I mean the meal's not ready? Well, there's not enough information that the meal's not ready yet. Yeah, right now, we have to be in a situation where the meal's not ready yet.

[68:55]

And then, are you going to come early, or is somebody else going to come early, even though the meal's not ready? Well, is he really early? Well, he was on time. He was on time. The meal wasn't good. Right, but he was on time. He was. He might have been on time. The question is, you need to go back and find out what time he came. You have to find out what time. Don't you have to find that out? You have to do that. You have to find out what time it was and why you would come before the bell came. What would motivate you to go before the bell rang if you were Dershin? You need to find that out. Responsibility. Now the hands are coming up. Actually, we don't even know what Yanto was objecting to when he was there early for the fact that he immediately returned to the room. That's right. We don't know. We don't know what the problem was. And we're not even sure there really was a problem.

[69:56]

If this sounds like it... It sounds like there was a problem, but you can't be sure. I just feel like this case is crying out to us to enter the time of the story. And what time was that? What time is that? How are we going to read our way back to the time of the story? Because the story, we can't figure this out. It's not going to work to figure it out from the words here. You've got to read it. Okay. One quick question. Is this one of the few stories where the student would like as a teacher? It's kind of atypical. Is it the key story of the light? No, no. Okay. Because teacher always gets enlightened and the student gets enlightened. That's why a teacher would like the student to get enlightened. Usually the teachers have the upper hand, right? But in this case...

[71:05]

So the other question I have is the last word, could that be the ultimate word, or in this case? Yeah, it could be the ultimate word. In fact, the ultimate word is the last word. Okay. Ultimate word. Last word, ultimate word. Yes. I think that when you look at it, I think it's important to pay attention to who these people are. Yeah. Starting with Dershon. Dershon was an extraordinary teacher who's described by his teacher extended a mouth like a blood book. He wasn't quite a limby guy, but had to show up in the room and somebody would say a funny word to him. Sculpt away. It was incredibly powerful, right? I think when we think about this story, we have to be careful not to think of him as being this likely dismissed.

[72:09]

And was also an incredible, for all three of the Dorsanishin students of the way, and to be able to speak to a teacher of such incredible intellect and spiritual authority, Zirshan, in that way, then it strikes a tremendous amount of person's development on this part. Well, all of these people are really incredible people. And I think we shouldn't take their speech lightly, you know. Right. And I think that also it's very important to look at the details of what's said. Yes. Shreifeng says to him, You know, ceremonial information. So when Zirshan shows up, he knows that the bell hasn't broken. He knows that the bell hasn't been sounded. And he appears with his ritual bow at a particular kind of place without the signal having been sounded.

[73:13]

Yes. And then Shui Phong says to him, the signals haven't been sounded. Where are you going with your bow? Right. So I think that that question is an important question. Where are you going with your role? And when Dershon doesn't respond, it's not through lack of ability to speak that he doesn't respond. There's some other meaning for that. It goes back to his room. which I think is very often the move that is made when the teaching is complete. When somebody is complete, it is teaching. When a teacher is complete, it is teaching. And he turns to his role. And I think, I don't begin to understand this case, but... I can't stop waiting if it's some importance to the question, where are you going if you're both? And Dersheim executing the maneuver of the teaching.

[74:14]

Do you? Good. And one other point about this is that These people were really concerned about everything that everybody did. So everything the teacher did was interesting to the students, and everything the student did was interesting to the teacher. Everything. It wasn't kind of like, okay, now we're practicing, and this is break time. So they're always very carefully, like,

[75:15]

Appreciating that every moment is an opportunity to receive and interact around Dharma. That's the feeling I have with this story. That's why it's a big issue to ask the teacher, what are you doing? And also to tell the other monks about the interaction. And the other monks be really interested and then say something. And then get back to the teacher. The whole situation is vibrating. Everybody's really interested in everything that's going on with everybody. So that's kind of the environment. What is your name? Nancy. Nancy, yes? I was wondering if the teacher arrived to teach that there was something more important than to eat at the middle. To arrive at the school was to teach that there was a community and the meal wasn't ready. Definitely, it was definitely, that's definitely what he was doing all day long. His main, his main teaching was, there's something more important than eating.

[76:17]

And where's the food? That's what we're here for. Something more important than the Neos, and we really have good ones here. It's very important that we have good Neos, so that we can say something more important than this. Same with our gardens. Same with our meditation practice. We have a very good meditation practice here. It's very important, and there's something more important than that. That's why we have a good meditation practice here, is to make that point. Of course, if you have crappy practice, there's lots of better than that. But the things we're doing best, imagine the most, aren't the point. So he is saying that, definitely. And everybody's interested in it. And that's part of the way I suggest to you that you can read your way back to the time of the stories. You read your way back there. by taking everything as a kitchen, everything as very important.

[77:23]

That's the spirit in which you can find your way back to the spirit of the story. If you don't feel that way about things, then you won't be at the time that the story happened. The story happens in that kind of time. Do you live in that kind of time when you're really interested in what people are saying about the Dharma? When you hear somebody say something about Dharma, do you go there and say, No. Sonja said, you know. Did you hear that? Huh? Did you hear that, Gary? Yeah. I'm really interested to tell Klaus that. And Klaus, you know, tells Linda. And Linda says, wow. And she goes back and tells me, did you hear? And so on. That we're really resonating with each other about little things. You live in that world. If you live in that world, you're starting to get into the time of the story. You have to read the story with that kind of spirit to get to the place where the story happened.

[78:25]

So that's kind of like my suggestion to you about how to meditate on this case. You need to look at this case between now and next week. But if you enter into the time where everything that happens is a matter of dharma, where you watch everything that happens, like to say, what is this about? What is being taught here? What are people's intentions? What is my intention? And be interested in that way. You will enter into a place. Then if you pick the story up and read it, it might come alive from you, and you might find yourself in the same time. These stories all happen in the same time. So I think that's, this story really cries out for you to really make a scheme to a, don't try to figure this story out by the words and yet take every word as extremely important. You see the difference between taking every word as important and trying to get the meaning out of the word? It's like your devotion and reverence for the word rather than you trying to get something from the word.

[79:29]

Okay? Then the words will comfort. If you try to get something from them, they listen. This is hopeless. This story is hopeless. Unless you approach it in that way. Some stories are somehow more forgiving. This one's hopeless. It could change. You have to really try a different attitude. I don't know if anybody was before Kevin. Was there somebody before Kevin? Kevin? Yeah. I brought some hands up there, but I don't see them anymore. Oh, Baron. So we have to carry it back. I think it's interesting that Sri Sri Sri has an assumption that his teacher is coming there for food. We don't know. We don't know. but that you make full assumption. No, no, no. I don't think he can even say that.

[80:31]

What we've got here is about the bowl. I can't make note of myself carrying different penciled bowls except me and seeing the dining room at times other than me, you know, empty, looking like they were ready to be filled. Right. That doesn't mean that I was going to do that. It doesn't mean that necessarily. It might mean it, but not necessarily. Especially if your wheels end speed. You might be going into, you might be bringing that ball in there, not to get the blue, but just to see what will happen. What's going to happen? This is going to be right now. It is going to be like, I don't even know what it's going to be. I'm going to go out and just do this. This is just an experiment. This is like today's, this is like, this is our experiment, guys. Take the bowl into the bowl.

[81:33]

Yeah. And step by step, what is this? What is this? What is this? What is this? Again, look at case 50. Straight pump. What is it? What is it? What is it? Straight pump. What is it? Case 50. The teacher's coming. This is the teacher. What is it? What is it? What is it? Straightbound says, you know, it's not time yet, old man. The teacher's, you know, teacher, what is it? What is it? What is it back to the room? Or as Spirit pointing out, maybe it's like, it's all. The story's old. It's been realized right at that point. This is it. However, although it's complete, When Yanto hears, Yanto says, I don't think so. What does he mean? what all i can say is that presents this for the schools empty this story this particular story functions like an anti-pole when i read it my first post was because i wouldn't give him

[82:47]

Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. So, they found this interesting because, of course, it showed me how to feel. I believe in this mind it wants to know, and also in the mind it thinks that it can know that it's actually able to know. Uh-huh. This came up right away, first impulse hearing this story. Okay, good. And this is part of the landscape of finding your way back to the time when you raised your bull. But it isn't the mind that you can know what this story is about, but it isn't your mind that's going to know this story. Is it work around studying to know the mind and studying this mind? You have to do that work because that's part of what you should be interested in. You should be interested in a mind which is trying to figure this case out. It's trying to know what this case is about.

[83:51]

That mind will be involved here. That mind is as important as a story. But if you're interested in this mind and the story and everything, I think you'll find your way back to the place where you can bring your bowl, or do whatever you think you would do at the time of the meal. Andy? I'd like to stand a little bit for Stuart said. Because... Stand, do you say? Yeah, yeah. Extrap all the time. Okay. Yeah. First of all, I'm not sure I accept the premise that there isn't something really clear and obvious about this story, because in the introduction, it does say, it portends that this is a story of the use of patient or teacher by a student. So that in itself, given what Stewart has already alluded to, the great reputation it does show, the great reputations of .

[85:00]

That in itself is already an event. In my opinion, it would justify the viewing of this story on that basis. We were looking for a rational basis. Yeah. Now, when you look at theater, the absurd, you may have characters in it which don't say things that necessarily make sense. But you get a very striking understanding of the nature, power of the characters, power of the relationship, the dynamic relationship between the characters when you observe a play like that. I suggest that that is another way of saying what you're saying, by getting back in. Because when you get back into that time, I feel a relationship between these players. I'm also thinking, I think Sheriff Fong was involved in another public story in the kitchen of Doke Sean. in which he ordered the rice and said, get out of here, you're more like that shuns. You're more like that shuns. He'll go up to this place.

[86:01]

Shui Feng has put a lot of funny stuff in the kitchen before. I mean, he has a dynamic going on. And I'm simply saying that those dynamics are a play here. And there is a resolution with that. It isn't necessarily a case here. I completely agree with you. This is just a way of explaining it. You get back into that time. You're looking at a dynamic situation, which is extremely liquidate, because you're looking at a situation that no longer relies on rational attainment of something. I mean, you don't see why the logic worked itself out, but you do see a student on the incentive, a student, you know, or a great teacher. Two of them. And that's a dynamic situation.

[87:03]

Yeah. But So there's a couple things. Again, this is like, this is my, it's 9 o'clock, so this is my, what do you call it, study advice. So, you know, the Zen, these are Zen stories. And Zen is about, I think, this kind of like special spirit which isn't in the scriptures, isn't in the stories, and yet it isn't outside the stories either. Somehow you have to enter into this story without depending on. It doesn't mean you sort of like enter into the story and don't care about it. You thoroughly enter into the story without depending on it, without trying to use the story. And the other is that, sort of what I said before, is that, picking up what Annie's saying is, we need to enter into the kind of dynamic situation that this was.

[88:15]

We can't understand the story if we're not in a similar dynamic situation as the story itself is. So how is your life in the next week going to be that dynamic? Do you have a life like that? Maybe you already have a life like that. It's that dynamic. It's as dynamic as a story where you're really an excellent student, and you're really an excellent teacher, and you have an excellent teacher, where you're interested the way an excellent student would be interested in an excellent teacher, and where you're such an excellent student that you maybe put your teacher in her place or whatever. But they're very dynamic. And also, that doesn't get stuck there. It just seems like you need to act this in your life for the story to not just be over there, someplace where you're trying to understand some other universe. You need to enter into the dynamic light of this story happening, I think.

[89:16]

And the words are here to help you, not to suck then the life of that over to yourself, that you're in the world with the story. And isn't that a really difficult assignment? And yeah, I think it is. But to me, it seems like this story is crying out for you to really take on this week and see if your week can be like the story. If your week can be like the story, you might be able to understand the story. Does that make sense? Oh, good luck to us.

[90:03]

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