than practicing with not bringing a thing in? It's not working. Not working? It works very well. You don't have to bring it, it's already there. Is that amazing? How's the air?

[01:08]

You want some more windows open? This is up in front. This practice of putting it down. It's pretty straightforward. Just put it down. And what's the good of that? I can't put it down until I put down that idea of putting it down. I wasn't talking about your problems. I'm just saying, what's good about the success at putting it down? Then you can see what you're holding? You can see what you're holding? Yeah.

[02:09]

Anything else? Be refreshed. Be refreshed. And anything else? Anything else? You can see, what you say? You can hear the birds and see the wind. What else? Freedom. What? Freedom. Freedom. What else? Smile a lot. Smile a lot. I heard you. Are you smiling? Yes. It's easier. It's easier? What gets? Your life. You've got the next thing. No, no, no, no.

[03:09]

There's love. There's love. There's love. Then you can see what else you... You don't have to worry. Don't have to worry? Sounds like a good situation. Scary? How? Space. The same spaciousness that can also be refreshing can also be scary. That's not when it's put down. You put it down and then you pick up something. So when you pick up something, like what's going to happen next, you get scared. If you think about what happens next after things are put down, you think about next, it's a very scary pickup.

[04:19]

You're resting. You're resting something. Yeah. So, you know, what you're perceiving right now, your present perception, is the truth. If everything's been put down, your present perception is the truth. But the truth is not your present perception. Or it might be easier for you if I say truth is beyond your present perception. But your present perception is truth. The truth is not stuck in your present perception, even though your present perception is true. If you're attached to any perception, then that's a perception.

[05:35]

Those who arrive at truth transcend perception. But they manage to use perception without dwelling in perception. If perception just arises and falls without carrying it around, without getting rid of it, but just let it arise and fall, that's called putting it down. And that way you transcend it, and that's how to use it. So we have to pass through the perception, which is the truth, to get free of it.

[07:07]

Perception is the truth. Perception is the truth. Your present perception is the truth. But you have to pass through your present perception and go beyond it. get free of it. You have to get free of the present perception which is the truth. That dropping it was the truth. That dropping it was the truth. That's Putting it down. Your perceptions, that is.

[08:17]

Putting down your perceptions? You thought that was the truth? Yes. Going beyond that. Next question.

[09:39]

We're still on this one. Is it okay? Can you wait? So she's saying that she thought that putting it down was the truth. Is that what you said? No. What did you say? I don't think that's what I said. I thought, did you say that your perception is the truth? Your present perception is the truth, yeah. I said that. And? But I also understood it that truth is not your present perception. That you need to move beyond your present perception. Right. by putting your present perception down and going beyond that to get to the truth. Right, but then you have to put the truth down, too.

[10:48]

How do you put the truth down? Well, do you have some truth on you? Do I have what? Some truth on you. Uh-oh. I didn't answer that. You didn't answer that? No. What did you kick? Are we playing ball now? Uh-oh. Okay. I don't know, Raph. I don't know how to answer that. Do you know how to play ball? Sometimes. How about now? Sure, why not?

[11:49]

That's hard to put it down. That's hard to put the truth down. Mm-hmm. I could say, do you understand, but that really wouldn't be the point. You need to keep playing ball in order to put the truth down. It's also how to put your perceptions down. Alan? What is... What is not putting it down?

[12:54]

Holding on to it. We have to what? Your present perceptions. Are you holding on to your present perceptions now? Huh? No. Would you say the truth is using perception as a vehicle? Would I say that the truth is using perception as a vehicle? I would say using perception as a vehicle realizes the truth. But there's also the truth of being blocked by perception and being hung up on perception. That could be truth. That's a present perception of yourself holding on to perceptions.

[14:02]

Yeah, if one really sees it, that it's intelligence. You have to pass through your perceptions to realize the truth, which is not bound by your perception, and yet your perceptions are the truth. And you need your perceptions in order to realize the truth. You need to be able to work with them without holding on to them. Which, in fact, really, we can't hold on to them. Right. we're, you know, we're playing ball, we're playing catch with this stuff. I have a response when you say, um, Yeah. You're holding on to your present perception?

[15:14]

You're stuck. You're burdened. You're outtouched. And of course, it'd be very tempting to hold on to your present perception if you thought they were true. And people often do think their present perceptions are true, so it's easy to fall into holding on to them. By the way, it's better to hold on to your present perceptions than to hold on to something better than your present perceptions, like liberation or something like that. That would really be bad. But that's not what we're talking about right now. I just thought I might mention that. It sounds like putting it down sounds like a positive act. It is. It is positive. But is it not? No, it's not a positive act. But it's positive. Yeah. It seems like a funny form of expression, since from what you were saying, it sounds like it's simply not holding off.

[16:26]

It seems like a funny form of expression. Well, because it sounds like a very active, some kind of activity, like putting something down. And it seems like there's some kind of... It's in the context of a conversation. If you weren't bringing something into the room and asking Jojo about not bringing in a single thing, he might not talk that way. But if you talk that way, he might say, well, put it down. You're saying you're not carrying anything, right? If I've said that, yeah. Or you're asking about, you're bringing in the question of what it's like not to bring something in. So then he says, he's trying to touch you, you know. He's just trying to touch you by saying, drop it. And he's not actually saying for you to do something. So then the guy tries something else. And he says, kind of like, well, really drop it.

[17:31]

And then the guy, and then he drops. Right, and it seems like the same kind of thing can happen with inner dialogue. So it seems like that one can say sometimes, let it drop or drop it. It seems to drop sometimes. Yeah, it kind of drops it. interdependently with the comment you know it might not have dropped if you didn't say drop it so you're dropping it's not something you did all by yourself it was a response dependent on that kind of instruction from yourself so you didn't really do it by yourself so it wasn't really a karmic act and this isn't supposed to be these things can happen though So to tune in to the channel of what's it like not to bring something in, to be concerned with that, that's a good thing to be concerned with. And then if you bring that in, maybe you can be affected by some comment.

[18:38]

Maybe you can feel a little bit more weight than you felt before. You already were concerned with carrying things maybe and what it would be like not to be carrying things. Right. Like the what then, what do I do, you know? But if you expose yourself that way, and in the presence of your own mind or some other person who's interested in helping you with that, then they can respond that way, and then you can respond, maybe. But he couldn't. The first time, he couldn't respond. He was still, he's still stuck. So then Jojo did it again. The second time, it worked. He could go with it. And he dissolved. And then that was, you know, that was his great enlightenment. And then from there he kept practicing so that finally he could, like, you know, hand feed poisonous snakes and tigers.

[19:43]

This guy got into that stuff. Yeah. It didn't say that. He was greatly awakened, right? But that's not it. It seems like I often have this perception that in the koans or whatever, when somebody's greatly awakened, there's this, oh, cool, I did it. But isn't that really just kind of a step into something? Yeah. No, it's like I said, then after that, he started doing really need things like feeding snakes. Yeah, he probably did. He was a saint.

[20:52]

He achieved sainthood. Yeah, he did sort of. Do they have bad days? Do the saints have bad days? Not after they get the saints. When the Buddhas have bad days. Shakyamuni Buddha had a few bad days. He had a bad back. Is the need to put the truth down, is that something you need to do so that you can continue to be with the moment? Whatever that means. Not even whatever that means. Yeah, because the moments have seen a change at what was proper truth to hold a millisecond ago was maybe not now.

[21:56]

Mm-hmm. No, it wasn't proper to hold it a millisecond ago either. Is your back bothering you? Well, I wouldn't say it's bothering me. It hurts. I have to be careful all the time. Where there's supposed to be kind of like a spongy little cushion between the vertebra and the sacrum. Supposed to be a little sponge there between the bones. There ain't nothing there. It's just bone on bone. Thank you. Why did that happen? Well, you know, there's a story that when I was delivered with forceps, certain facets in my spine that hold, that keep the, you know, the things sit on top of each other, and there's little, like, zipper things in the back, you know, that hold one set on top of the other one, little hooks that fit on the back of the, that fit one vertebra over the other, hold it in place.

[23:14]

Those maybe snapped when I was pulled out. People around that time, deliberative forceps, have that, I think, a congenital thing. So then some forward-backward stability was undermined at that time. So as I got bigger and bigger, gradually the torso started slipping forward. And then there was like, I guess the bone was pressing down on the disc and just gradually ground the disc into oblivion. And then the next one on top of that also started to go. So pretty soon they'll just be a stack of bones. But this is a good line of work for the people who have spines like that. Don't move.

[24:29]

So a Zen master named Huang Long wrote a verse about this case. And another Zen master... made interlinear comments, perhaps you should say, intervertebral comments. Intervertebral. Between the different lines, Yuran Wu interjected comments. Not bringing a single thing, both shoulders can't bear it up. Or you could actually say another word. Not carrying a single thing can't lift it using both hands, both arms. You can't lift this thing.

[25:30]

Not bringing in a single thing, you can't lift it with both arms. Your shoulders and arms can't hold this, not bringing in a single thing. Okay? Not bringing in a single thing is extremely heavy. You can't do this. And Yuran Wu says, someone with clear eyes, like Zhao Zhou, is hard to fool. That's your own rule. That's your own rule. That's your own rule. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it different countries, or why, what do you mean? I think Fugawa is kind of like...

[26:32]

an affectionate way to refer to this particular Zen master named Yuan Wu. Yuan Wu is the person who made the comments in the Blue Cliff Record. And so Tianteng likes Yuan Wu and gives him this affectionate, respectful name, Fu Gua. So Fu Gua says, Someone with clear eyes, like Zhao Zhao, is hard to fool. Or you could also say, someone with clear eyes is hard to find. At the words, he suddenly knows his error. He being Yan Yang. And Yan Wu says, step back and you'll fall into a deep pit.

[27:39]

Or he stepped back and he fell into a deep pit. In his heart is boundless joy. Like a poor man finding a jewel. since from poisonous ill he forgot what was on his mind. Another translation would be, once the poison is forgotten, there's no connection. Yeah.

[28:42]

There's no connection in, you know, not bringing a single thing. Once you don't bring any single thing, there's no connection. There's no time. There's no time? There's no sequence. That, yeah. That too, yeah. There's no solid links. And the comment is, when beginningless past karma is exhausted, there's pure clarity. This is like foreshadowing the next case. Snakes and tigers have been his intimates. Different species equally understand.

[29:45]

Empty and still for a thousand years, or empty over lonely centuries, the pure breeze still hasn't stopped. In Yuan Wu's comment, who would not appreciate and look up to it? Actually, you know, it says, where the Master lived, there was always a snake and a tiger who ate from his hand. Therefore, the Venerable is referred to like one who has attained sainthood.

[31:06]

Maybe he didn't actually attain, but just referred to as one like. Lucky boy. So, Zhao Zhou and Venerable Yan Yang Were men unfathomable to ordinary people or sages? When they uttered a single word or poised a single question, it was a guide for people for a thousand ages. Tiantang saw that the monks of recent times were forgetting more and more, were getting more and more coarse-minded. So he beat the grass to scare the snakes. He wrote this verse.

[32:08]

Not prepared for meticulous action, he loses to the first move. This is referring to the game of go. Go. Chinese checkers, Chinese chess. In Chinese chess, part of what you do is you try to surround your opponent with your pieces. So not prepared for a meticulous action, he loses to the first move. Realizing himself, the coarseness of his mind, he's embarrassed at bumping his head. When the game has ended, the axe handles rotted at his side. Clean and purify the ordinary bones to play with the immortals. And this refers to a story. Is it in the commentary?

[33:11]

Does it tell you the story? Yeah. Yes? Uh-huh, it does, doesn't it? So, you're on, Wu. Watch out for care. Yes? It's first time not bringing a single thing where shoulders can't bear it out. Does that mean you can't not bring something in?

[34:12]

You can't not? Well, I didn't think that's what it meant, but I think it's true that you can't not bring something in. You can't stop that from happening. Could you also say what you thought? I thought it meant that you can't do the thing. With both your arms, you can't do the thing of not bringing in something. Your shoulders aren't strong enough to bear the weight of not carrying anything. I don't... Or it still sounds to me like then you can't... Right?

[35:17]

I see what you're saying is the same thing. No. No. It's... So... Even though in reality you don't ever bring anything in. Okay? That's reality that you don't bring anything. That's the truth. When you have a perception, that's the truth. But you don't bring anything in to have that perception. It's just a perception. That's reality. Now, if you think you bring something in, then you get stuck in your perceptions. And people do think they can bring something in, so then they get stuck in their perceptions. They make their perceptions true. You have to be able to use your perceptions without getting stuck in them. But to try to do the thing called not getting stuck in your perceptions, you don't have the strength to do that.

[36:20]

It's not by strength that you manage to not bring something in. And if you try, you would not be strong enough. So one is emphasizing that in reality you don't bring something in. The other is that if you try you wouldn't be able to do it. Now you could say the reason why if you try you wouldn't be able to do it is because it's reality and you can't make reality by your own power. I'm trying to understand this. I thought of an analogy I wanted to describe. It's like the act of trying to not bring something is sort of like trying to push on reality as opposed to moving with it or letting it move you.

[37:24]

I can see why you'd say that. Do you say the act of not bringing something in? Of trying. Of trying. It's kind of like they're trying to push on reality rather than just... And just let it move you. And just let it move you. Yeah, it's kind of like that. But somehow, the act of pushing on reality sounds actually... If you're actually trying to push on reality, that sounds more like not carrying anything in. Because most people don't try to push on reality. That's kind of like, this is, you know, this is kind of a, this is like going beyond this case. That's nice. I mean, even though it was my idea, I, you know, you thought, you know, it wasn't such a good idea. I think it's really a good idea. Yeah, go around, push on reality. People don't do that. They think they, they think they've got it. Go and push on it. You mean like to kind of stop thinking?

[38:28]

No. No. Like, you can try to, like, maybe try to push on the truth. Do something that we don't usually do, in other words. Push on the truth. Have a little war with the truth. How are you going to do that? Is that what you know about play ball? Well, yeah. That would be one way to play ball, is to, like, push on the truth. In other words, it sounds reasonable that trying to do something you can't do would be like pushing on reality, right? Rather than, did you say, being carried by it? Yeah, or moving by it. So those are ways, that sounds good, what you said, but in actual practice it might be better to do something more like what you said was unreasonable. Because people wouldn't think it's reasonable to push on the truth, right?

[39:33]

Push on reality. That wouldn't make sense, would it? How could you do that without manipulating? Can you manipulate reality? Without trying to manipulate, without the intention of it? What I mean, if you were trying to push reality or manipulate reality, you'd know right away that that was ridiculous, right? I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. We don't think we can push on reality or manipulate reality. What we think is that we know reality and that we know the truth, that we have the truth. That's what we think. Right? That's our usual way. We don't think there's a truth out there and we're going to push it around. But enacting that drama would be actually maybe a good meditation practice. That would be kind of like... putting things down, because our usual way is not that way.

[40:33]

So if you went out and tried to push reality around, that would be kind of like putting it down. Because you're not holding on to your usual approach, which is, usual approach is, you carry everything with you. That's the usual way. You walk in a situation, you drag yourself into the room. You bring yourself to situations and then try to establish some workable scenario. Right? That's the usual way. How about just don't even worry about that. Just get into pushing reality around. See what that's like. That sounds good. Even though I think you're right that trying to carry something or trying to convert not carrying something into something else you do, try to add not carrying something into your repertoire of carrying something.

[41:44]

That would be like pushing reality around. Right? So since that's our usual way, why don't you just enact that that's your usual way and try to push reality around I would be honest. You'd be kind of like, what do you call, showing your hand. Stuart, did you... That's what magical practices are. Yeah. I just practice magic. Like, induce changes in the Which is ridiculous. So how about let's do some magic now, right? Which is ridiculous. But we are always trying to do magic, but we don't admit it. Right?

[42:47]

We just think, I can't help it, I'm just working with reality here. Raj? By the way, it's the square root, not the square. Um... It feels like one of the subtexts of Jarjo's teaching is don't ask me questions that don't relate to who you are right now. Don't ask me abstract questions. So kind of what it's saying in a way is like anybody who has any question, anybody who comes to me with a question about what it's like to not be bringing something in is carrying such a big load that obviously it's an irrelevant question to ask me. Yeah. Yeah. So he said, put it down. Another famous story of Jarjo is a monk comes to the monasteries, And says he wants to talk to Jiaojo.

[43:50]

He tells the superintendent that he wants to talk to Jiaojo. Oh, it's not Jiaojo, sorry. It's Madsu. It's okay. And so the superintendent comes to Madsu and says, a monk came and he wants to talk to you. And Motsu says, tell him to have some tea and go. So the superintendent goes and tells the monk and he comes back and he says, I told him to have some tea and go. By the way, how come you told him that? And Motsu says, have some tea and go. LAUGHTER David, did you have your hand raised? Yeah. I feel like magic just got discounted and challenging reality.

[44:58]

I guess... How did it get discounted? Well, it was... Like being called ridiculous? Semi-ridiculous. Ridiculous. Well, what I meant was magic which you do is ridiculous. Magic which I do isn't. Magic which you do is ridiculous. Magic which I do is ridiculous. But magic isn't ridiculous. But magic you do is ridiculous. I have a question. To your question, would you just blow it up? You know, it's ridiculous to go to see a master and ask any question about my original faith, et cetera, et cetera. Why would the monks better use the words in order to get there? Better use the perception.

[46:00]

Yeah, you have to use the words. You have to use the words. So that is actually pushing reality, isn't it? If you understand what you're doing, and if you don't understand what you're doing, then it's like you're pushing reality, but of course you can't. But it's like you are, but without knowing it. It's like you're trying without knowing you're trying. In fact, you can't. And you're trying to do something you can't. So it'd be better to try to do something which you know you can't do. Like go talk to somebody about reality and try to push it around a little bit. This case seems like, you know, in some ways, Yan Yang seems like sort of the butt of a joke, but actually he was doing something wonderful. He wasn't being stupid asking this question. He was like a ticket to a meeting with Zhao Zhe.

[47:04]

Yeah, he was that. And he was, what? He was also, you know, but he was making a mistake. He was making an error. But he understood that he was making an error. He got it that he was making an error. And then he couldn't stop. Even after he got it that he was making an error, he couldn't stop. So he did it again. He made another error. And then Zhao Zhao showed him again it was an error. But then he got it. So he made two errors. But again, that's the point. He said, came forward and did something erroneous, made a mistake. That's necessary. If you come forward and don't do something that's mistaken, you're invulnerable. But fortunately, we're always doing something like that. So the point is, just come forth and do it. There's courage involved in it, too.

[48:05]

There's courage, I hear. We're not always doing it. We have all kinds of stupid things that we could ask you, and we don't. I mean, it always feels in reading the Coens that the monk is an idiot. When we look at it from the perspective of all sitting here and reading this in the book, it's, ah, of course I was wrong. I don't think he looks like an idiot. You can always see the mistake from our perspective, but would we do the same thing? Well, would we ask the first question? And if we would, that's good. Yanyang later as a result of this kind of effort, this kind of coming forward. Now I'd just like to just take a little pause here and have a little break where the people who haven't talked yet, we wait for them for a while. And then the people who have talked before can come back in a little while.

[49:09]

Maybe if you change seats with people, that would help. Like somebody could come sit in the steward's seat, and somebody could go sit in John's seat, and somebody could sit in Klaus's seat. That might help you. No? Uh-oh. Not with you. Yes, Baron? This, like, pushing on reality to meet things like practices of art. Yeah, right. For example, people make art. make films and kind of to have things pass by. Things pass by.

[50:43]

Like when I watch films, there's the same danger as it might, but if I just watch, I try to watch the things pass by. That's almost like a kind of emancipatory practice. When you're watching them or when you're making them? How when you're watching them? Well, when you're watching them, or when I... Sometimes when I watch them, it is that images pass by. And I can be stuck on one image. And then I go blind, and I don't see the rest. So...

[51:46]

upright movie watching characters would be need to be revealed with these flickering images despite the content. If you were aware of that, could you see the movie anymore? Could you listen again? If you were able to do that, would you be able to see the movie? It seems like you might lose the movie if you did that. I think you'd lose the movie. But, you know, you'd give the movie up. Something. Well, you wouldn't be able to see the movie anymore. You'd give up seeing it.

[52:50]

think, you certainly should be willing to lose the movement. New people, new people, new people, new people, people who haven't had it yet before. It's just a movie I like very much, but somebody who died to please, and the last movie you made was Blue Screen. That's Blue Screen. I thought that very moving. I, okay, the part, not bringing a single thing, both shoulders, not bare it up, I thought just the opposite when I read it.

[54:08]

And that was, I think I can capture it, that by not bringing a single thing, It's so, actually not heavy, but it's actually so light because it's so light that the shoulders simply can't, there's nothing at all. That's what it is. That's not the opposite. That's related. Well, perhaps it is. The opposite becomes... Something is so light, you can't pick it up. You just can't pick it up. You cannot. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, now, if you excuse me for a second, I'd like to just ask you one question and then do a little experiment. What do you think the probability that two people in this room had the same birthday is? What would you say the probability of that is? 100%. 100%? Yeah, I would say 100%.

[55:11]

100%. Okay? Let's do it. Okay? And then once we get through, let's ding her. I'm not going to use my birthday because I know it's not 100% that anybody has my birthday. But what's your birthday? July 11th. Yeah, I'm kidding. What's your birthday? August 20th. August 20th? Any other August 20th? It's her birthday. July 11th is her birthday. Hi, Patrice, July 11th. Any other July 20th? Just keep doing it. Keep doing it? Who said that? What are you saying? What's your birthday, Ruth? I said, what is the chance?

[56:12]

What I meant was, what is the chances? that there's two people that have the same birthday. 100% is what I say. It's actually a little bit more than 100%. There's a little extra thing there, but we already proved it so far. Not proved it, but we just have one. Want to try another one? And the reason why this is, is that you think of the number of pairs that there are in this room is far greater than 365 there's only like 70 or whatever birthdays in this room there's not 365 birthdays there's only about 70 or less birthdays and there's only about 70 people but there's like there's probably about 500 couples in this room so with 365 days

[57:12]

It's almost impossible that, you know, with 500 couples, unless a whole bunch of them had the same birthday, that you wouldn't... By probability, you'd almost always have, like, maybe two in this room. Because there's so many couples. People are talking about people that are pairing. Two people. For example, with me, you can make 70 couples with me. Then with Cindy, you can make 69 couples. And with Carrie, 68 couples. By the time you get to Mahin, you've already got about almost 300 couples. With this whole room, there's many, many couples. So, since there's so many chances, you have 365 birthdays possible here. Chances are more than 100%, I would say, at least 100%. But you can't have more than 100% probability, over-determined probability.

[58:16]

But now what are the chances that you'd have two birthdays? With a group this size, probably it's likely you'd have two birthdays. I already knew. Yeah, but maybe three. What's your birthday? September 27th. September 27th. See? What's yours? July 21st. Stop by your head, you say? Now? Now we're going back to class. July 22nd. Okay, now back to the class. New people. New people, so many new people. I mean, so many people have not stepped forth to push on reality here. What are you doing? All you people. Look at them all. So quiet. Did he get the idea that he can push the reality by asking that?

[59:25]

Did he? I don't think so. It doesn't look like it. After the story's over, I think he probably was practicing that way. The reason, not the reason, but the way he asked that kind of question, he got the idea he can really do that. I think so. But I don't think before. I don't think he had the idea before. Maybe he did. But now you have the idea. So why do you do it? I don't have any idea. You don't have any idea? I don't know. Pretty soon, we've got to let the people who ask all the questions get a chance again. Yes? That's it. Can we talk a little bit more about what you said about you can't make reality by your own power? I mean, does that mean that, like, you know, you have the illusion that you're doing things, but it's just an illusion?

[60:33]

Yes. It's an illusion to think you can do things by your own power. Right? I hear that. I don't experience that. You think you can do things by your own power? I do. I do think that, but I know, you know, I mean, we talked about the fact that that's quite not right. I'm just trying to be true. Yeah, so maybe it would be good for you to Try to do things by your own power. Really, like, see it that way and act that way. That would be an example of pushing on reality. You know, I already operate that way, but you're saying then to say this, like, firmly to myself? Well, I mean, perhaps you would accept the reality, or perhaps you would accept that it's a truth.

[61:35]

that you're interdependent and that you can't do things independent of other things. That's maybe accepted as a truth. You say, okay, I don't accept that truth. If that's Buddhism not true, I'm going to push on Buddhism because I don't really go for it, so I'm going to push on it. In other words, so I'm going to do things by my own power for a while. But I'm going to be worried that's what I think I'm doing. I'm going to try to do that. So then you try, I'm going to move my hand by my own power. Here it goes. It's my own power. I'm going to put it down by my own power. I'm going to laugh by my own power. I'm going to smile by my own power. Try it. I was convinced. Convinced of what? You look to me like you were doing. You're doing what? Acting by my own power?

[62:37]

Yeah, I saw that. Well, if you would try yourself, then you might change your attitude. Because for me, I didn't feel like I was doing it by my own power. When I do that, then I don't feel like it's my own power. I feel like I'm being an actor. It's much greater than my power. When I feel like I'm doing it by my own power, that shows me that it's not that way. In other words, when I fully enact my delusions, I'm not so fooled by them. But if I just act them out without being, you know, sort of like they're just my assumptions, then it seems that way. And other people seem that way, too. What's yours? What's your resentment? I don't say there is anything, but if I think so, then I would say, well, then what do you, how do you say, how do you say, you know, what's the word?

[63:45]

Be honest. If you think you've got something of your own, admit it and act that way. You know, like if you think, you know, this is either your feet, well then use your, these are my feet and my power to move them and just act that way. and see what that's like because that's what you probably think but you don't take credit for that you don't be responsible that that is your attitude so then you're driven by that rather than driving it so drive your delusions rather than being driven by them and pretty soon you realize you're driving delusions that's what I'm saying it's not true but just to say it's not true We can argue about it. But if you think it's true, then admit it and act that way. Nicely. Be nice about it. You don't have to be that rough because you've got the truth. And this is like your power.

[64:52]

So you don't have to be rough about it because you've got your own power and you're using it. So why don't you just be a powerful, independent operator? Do you wear a red cape, too? Huh? Do you wear a red cape, too? Wear a red cape. That would be very nice. Except in the Zendo, you should wear a black cape. But, you know, when you put the black cape on, you know, put that black cape on, and if you wear a black cape, and you put it on by your own power, and you, by your own power, go on that Zendo, you know? And watch what happens to those people when you go in there. Super monk. Super monk. I mean, if you're going in there by your own power, you are a super monk. Okay, we've got some other new people are talking over there. It's kind of a mumbling, but let's hear it amplify it.

[65:57]

Amplify. Susan and Arlene, what are you guys saying over there? By your own power? No. I'm in control of her? Who's in control of you, Susie? Huh? What? Yeah. Yeah. No one? No. Everybody. So you're not deluded. You should hang out with this person. She thinks she can do things by her own power. She's acting on behalf of all of us. So there's nothing she can do. She's enlightened. But you deluded people. You should act it out. You should enact your delusion. Right? So things like the precepts are for people who believe they can do, right?

[67:08]

It's for them and it's also for those who are free of that. It's for both of them. It's for everybody. They're for free and post-enlightenment. I know what you mean, yeah. They're for the unenlightened. Yeah? Well, I mean, if... If you didn't believe that you were doing, then why would you worry about anything like precept? If you didn't believe you were doing... If you didn't believe that you were responsible for your actions or that you could do or do anything different than what you were doing, then what difference would it make? Well, you just said, if you didn't believe you're responsible, and then you said something else? Well, I really meant, if you didn't believe, if you didn't believe that you could do something other than what you were doing, then why do you need... If you didn't believe you could do something other than what you were doing, why would you practice the precepts?

[68:18]

Well, why would you need the precepts? If you didn't believe that you could do something other than what you're doing, why would you need the precepts? So, let me put it in positive. If you didn't believe you could do something other than what you were doing, in other words, would that be the same as you do believe that you can only do what you're doing? If you believe, I mean, I do believe. So some people think that they can do other than what they're doing? Yes. Some people think that. Yes. So for those people, the precepts would make sense for those people. That's what I'm saying, yeah. The people think they can do something other than what they're doing, the precepts would make sense.

[69:19]

Okay, so that's right. I think the precepts are for those people. Okay? I agree. Now, what about the people... who don't think they can do anything other than what they're doing. It's a preceptor for them, too. Now, you, are you in the previous category of someone who thinks that she can do something other than what she's doing? Right. And also, do you think you're someone who can do what you are doing? Yes, what I am doing. You think you can do that? Yes. I think that that often overlaps. The people who think that they can do things by their own power, they also think they're people who can do something different from what they're doing. Because they're so powerful. So those two go together often. And the precepts are for those people, definitely. So are you going to receive the precept pretty soon? Yeah! that's good now what about the people who don't think they have the power to act on their own and therefore because they don't think that they have the power to act on their own they also don't think they can do anything other than what they're doing those two overlap too precepts are for them too but in a little bit different way for them it's more like a what do you call it more like a

[70:37]

a love relationship rather than that the precepts are going to be like something they're going to use to help them in this power trip. So if you're on a power trip, please receive the precepts to guide you on this power trip so you'll be a good power tripper. So your power trip will be edified by the precepts, enhanced and enlightened by the precepts. But if you don't, you're not on a power trip. you realize you can never do anything other than what you're doing at the moment anyway which is what we're talking about this case because we're talking about what you're doing then the precepts are something that you love which you take care of and you teach and you watch You watch how they happen. Because when you're not doing things by your own power, in fact, you do not kill, you do not steal, you do not lie, and so on. And you can't do those things. Because you can't do anything other than what you're doing. And you're not killing, stealing, and lying.

[71:40]

Because you don't have the power to do those things. But activity is occurring. And the activity that's occurring is this relationship you have called the precepts. So it's for both attitudes. And it's also for people who are kind of like sloshing back between the two. Who sometimes say, see that right now there's nothing I can do other than this. I'm not getting anything right now. And I'm not giving anything right now. And I'm not doing this by my own power. And the precepts are happening. But also... Sometimes when you guys slip into thinking, I'm going to do this, and then I hope I practice the precepts while I'm doing things by my power. The precepts guide you into the place where you realize that you can't act by yourself, and when you realize you can't act by yourself, the precept will be, how do you act? So fortunately, the precepts are for the deluded and the enlightened, but the enlightened don't any longer do the precepts as a deliberation.

[72:54]

The precepts are just their love, and their love is the precepts, same thing. It's no longer something that they sort of have to execute or figure out. What about the power of not to do something? Like being in a situation and not doing something? Kind of the same. The personal power not to do something is kind of the same. How can you not do something? Well, tell her, Bob. You can think that you don't do it. Well... You mean like sometimes you can... You can be in a situation where you say like... You think of doing something and you start and you don't do it. Yeah. You think of something... I've been sitting here thinking about talking. Yeah. Thinking that I'm not going to talk. Yeah. And I thought, well, maybe there's something about that. I'm thinking I have a power not to talk.

[74:00]

Yes, you can think that. You can think that. But not talking is doing something. Yeah. I mean, not talking is doing something. Talking is doing something. But even when you're talking, you don't have to think that you do the talking by your own power. Like right now, as you notice, I'm talking, but I don't have to think of it as me doing the talking. And, you know, I don't have to get into that. I can just, you know, blah, blah, blah, quite easily... without thinking that I'm doing it or I can think I'm doing it but I'm suggesting is if I think I'm doing it I would like to recommend to myself that I'd like to get behind that and say okay now you're doing this and you think you're doing this and be responsible for that delusion or even call it delusion be responsible for the understanding that this is by my own power and what I'm saying to you is that when I really do that fully I don't feel like I'm doing it by my own power anymore

[75:04]

Something else, it seems bigger than that when I really like take that on. I feel like I'm, you know, it's like this drama, that's all. It's pretend. What if you do everything completely and you don't believe a word of it? What if you do everything completely? Period. And you don't believe it. The same thing. When you do things completely, you don't believe it. When you do things half-heartedly, you believe it. Or not even half-heartedly, anyway, partially. Half-heartedly, 80%. That little bit that's left over is what you use to believe it. When you wholeheartedly act, It no longer can be done by you.

[76:06]

It seems like a lot of my activities are unconscious, you know, everything from my breathing to sometimes scratching or grabbing for a doorknob or something like that. It doesn't feel like I'm doing it, you know. Well, it's fine. But I don't feel like that's my activity. It doesn't seem very... No, it's not enlightened activity. The difference would be that in the cases where you think you are doing it and you are conscious, that to the extent that you thought you were doing it by your own power, you would completely admit that attitude. You know, you would fully do the conscious part. That would be enlightened activity. So the others, is it irrelevant to my practice? No, it's not irrelevant because unfortunately, we're still responsible for that stuff too.

[77:13]

It just has no way to work with this because you can't do it fully, you can't do unconscious acts with full consciousness. You can't... What? Well, by bringing my attention to the present, I actually can be like, If you can fully execute the things you are conscious of, completely give yourself to them and admit your value system and your beliefs and whatever is real, completely go with that. That will gradually transform your unconscious processes too and make them actually change. It won't necessarily make them all conscious, but it will transform your unconscious attitudes. Your attitude that you can do things by yourself, a lot of people's attitude that they can act by themselves is unconscious, that attitude, that assumption is unconscious, it's subconscious. For some people, it's also conscious. But we have to transform the conscious and the subconscious belief that we can act on our own.

[78:18]

Both have to be transformed. If you just transform that, you can still act on this lower level unconsciously, but it still counts because you still have that attitude. And when that attitude changes, you unconsciously will start acting differently. You know, the way you relate to your breath will change. Your internal processes will change. Your physical processes will change. But you can't right now work on those things directly. But everything you're conscious of, you can be honest with yourself, like Liz. She's honestly admitting that she does think she can do things by her own power. And she thinks she can do something other than what she's doing. She's honestly admitting that by completely admitting that. Okay? you'll be free. And you can have a sense, this way that you can actually have a sense, I think I have completely admitted that I'm acting that way. And then if that's the case, you'll see some difference in the way you act that way.

[79:23]

It will be transformed. And that way of working will actually start transforming your unconscious processes, too. But the unconscious processes, the way they're normally working, is not necessarily enlightened. Until they've been transformed... that they're actually not believing in that stuff, unconsciously not believing. Then the actions there and the conscious things which arise from you will all be enlightened. Is that belief that I have too? We all do, probably. On a cellular level, probably all of us have worked to do that. Even if on a conscious level we've completely cleared that, On a cellular level, I think probably all of us have to do some work. Is that what's often called mind-body delusion? That's another delusion.

[80:28]

The illusion we're talking about is that within this field of perhaps a mind-body delusion, we think that we can do things by our own power. We believe in independent existence and independent power, and we also think that, for example, we can do other than what we're doing right now. And we can do other than what we're doing right now, but not right now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We can be transformed. We can be transformed, but only by completely exerting our present situation. Our current manifestation has to be completely exerted. Yes? What do you have to say about the thing that enlightenment or encouragement Enlightenment is an incentive for encouragement. For encouragement.

[81:30]

I think that the enlightenment at the level that we were talking about earlier in this story, where he was enlightened at the end of this story, that kind of enlightenment was kind of enlightenment like an encouragement. In other words, he was encouraged then to really start practicing. Like I tell that story about Suzuki Roshi when he was, you know, he went swimming at the narrows at Tassahara. And with the students, and they all jumped in the narrows. The narrows are deep water, deep pool at Taal Sahara, like maybe 60 feet deep or something. I don't know how deep it is, but it might be that deep. The students are swimming there. See, he jumped in, he got excited and jumped in, but he didn't know how to swim. Forgot that he didn't know how to swim. So he went down under the water. And then he was down there for a very long time, and the students thought, oh, Zen Master.

[82:38]

Well, he can hold his breath a long time. And he was down there under the water, he said, looking at them beautiful ladies' legs. But then the students thought, well, this is too long, even for a Zen master. So they went down and pulled him up, and he was very embarrassed after that. Oh. Had a little enlightenment experience. He realized... he realized something about himself. He understood something about the Zen master. He had this insight. I, Suzuki, Roshi, M, blah, blah, blah, blah. He said, then, based on that insight, he said, I really started, I decided I was really going to practice hard. So he had the big encouragement there. But then there's another kind of enlightenment. There's another kind of enlightenment, which is not exactly encouragement, but it's more like the way we're all working together right now in peace and harmony.

[83:51]

You can say that's an encouragement too, I guess, if you want to. That way we're all working together in peace and harmony, that's another kind of encouragement. Maybe we can hardly sense that way we're all working together in peace and harmony. but just a little bit of a sense of how we're working. That's kind of an encouragement to appreciate how we're working together in peace and harmony, and to work for peace and harmony based on the inkling of peace and harmony. So yeah, I think maybe that's pretty good, that enlightenment's a synonym for encouragement. Encouragement to practice enlightenment. because enlightenment is so encouraging to practice enlightenment. So, in fact, that's kind of right. That's basically what enlightenment is. Enlightenment is that which encourages enlightenment. And enlightenment is realized by enlightenment. Not by me, not by you, but the way we're all working together. That's the basis of enlightenment. Not by what I think, not by what you think, not by what I do, not by what you do, but the way we're all working together here.

[85:00]

That peaceful way we're all working together, that's the way that enlightenment is realized. And the way we're peacefully working together is sponsored by the way we're peacefully working together. So somehow, we need to appreciate that. We need to receive that precept, you know? The precept of enlightenment. I take refuge in enlightenment. I take refuge in the way we all are working together, helping each other right now. The way we're all working harmoniously together right now. I take refuge in that. That's one of the definitions of Sangha. Yeah. Well, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. All three of them. That is an expression. That is an expression. Well, that's the precept. You receive the precept, and the precepts are enlightenment. Yeah. The Buddha teaches beings to take refuge in how beings are working together in harmony.

[86:11]

Buddha teaches beings how to take refuge in Buddha. The Buddha encourages beings to take refuge in Buddha. Enlightenment encourages beings to take refuge in enlightenment. When beings see enlightenment, they feel encouraged to take refuge in enlightenment. When beings see real peace and harmony, they're encouraged to take refuge in real peace and harmony. So the precepts encourage beings to receive the precepts. Okay, so if you're ready, we can go on to case 58 next time. All right? This, again, oftentimes this case is a practice. The practice of this case is the mode of understanding the next case. So don't forget this case when you study the next case.

[87:14]

Don't forget the exercise here when you study the next case because the next case is what's possible in the next case is based on the practice of this case. All right? Thank you very much. And I would ask the people who had not spoken tonight to speak next week If you speak right now, you won't have to speak next.

[88:01]

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