And I actually have some reservations about saying them. I don't kind of want to say it, but since it keeps popping up, I thought I would mention them. It's something like, we don't have much time left. It's been swell. But there's not going to be much more of it. And I thought to some of you that might be a relief. But even if it's a relief that there won't be much more. even or even if you're worried that there won't be much more either way it seems like for me anyway it leads me to think of what i want to do with a little bit of time left it doesn't it makes me a little sad i guess if i think about

[01:23]

how little there is. On the other hand, it makes me feel how precious the rest of this day will be. So what What will we use our time, our life for, for now only? The tradition of the Mahayana, the great vehicle of bodhisattvas, produced a sutra, a scripture called the Lotus Scripture.

[02:45]

And in that scripture it said that when Buddhas come into this world, appear in this world, They also appear for a limited amount of time. It doesn't say that. Actually, it does. They appear for what it seems to be a limited amount of time, like us. And there's a one reason, one cause and condition which which there is, there is one cause and condition for the appearance of the Buddhas in this world. They all appear for the same one reason, and that one reason is

[03:48]

a wish, the Buddha's wish, the Buddha's desire. It's because of a wish that Buddhas come into this world. It's because of a desire. You could even say, I guess, a passion. And that wish is to open and disclose Buddha's wisdom so that all living beings can realize it and enter it. Now when we hear that, that all Buddhas appear in this world just only to open and demonstrate Buddha's wisdom, so that all living beings will understand and enter Buddha's wisdom,

[05:28]

When you hear that, you might think, take the perspective of, well, here I am, and Buddhas are coming into the world to do that for me and my friends, which is fine. Thinking that way is a little bit of an... Then the Buddhas have been a little bit successful already, that you listened to that a little bit. You opened to that message. But I guess what my question is, can you sort of start moving around to the other side of that and see if you would wish yourself to open to that?

[06:30]

Whether you would like to help others open to that? Whether you would like to help disclose that? so that all beings could understand Buddha's wisdom and enter it. Do you wish to be of service to living beings in that way? Do you wish to help people open and see Buddha's wisdom? Do you wish to cause and aid people to awaken to Buddha's wisdom and enter it?

[07:38]

Do you want to be like the Buddhas and all the successors of Buddha down through the centuries, through the millennia? Some of you may be newcomers and you may say, well, I'm not sure. Tell me more about what that would be like. And I don't want to sign up until I know what that might mean. So I guess my question to myself and to you is, do you or do you not want to get with the program, the programs of all Buddhas?

[08:49]

I'm not here to force you to do so. I'm just saying I don't have much time left So that's what I want to know. And if you say, I don't want to join the program, that's fine. Then I've got that population identified. Buddhas appear in this world. It isn't that they appear in this world and they want to open and disclose Buddha's wisdom just to the people who are also interested in the program. It's just that you would teach somewhat differently to people who want to join the program and people who don't. But Buddhas want everybody to join the program. They wish for everybody to open to Buddha's wisdom. But part of the process is to find out who wants to join and who doesn't.

[09:57]

And the ones who don't want to join, then you say different things to them than the other ones. And this group may be a mixed group, I don't know. So it's a little hard, I have to grope to see what message will kind of like serve a variety of beings. Anyway, there's basically two ways to deal with the fact that there's not much time left. And also there's basically two ways to deal with the fact that there never was much time. Namely, two ways to deal with the fact that you're born and you die. There's really three, but I won't mention the third. There's basically two.

[10:59]

One is to, you know... get with the program of karma. Meekly accept the power of karma. That's one way, one approach to the fact that you're born and you die. In between, depending on what you do, things will go a certain way. And so one way is to try to accept that meekly, humbly. It's pretty good. You can also fight back and not accept it. But that's just pure hell. And really, you know, the worst possible alternative, not even worth mentioning, but I did. The other approach, basically, besides meekly accepting karma, the power of karma, karma is powerful.

[12:08]

It is powerful. The power of habit. The other way, the second way, basically, is to let your life be buoyed up and exalted by the vows of a bodhisattva, to let your life be lifted into freedom by wishing, by wishing primarily and only to help other people. before yourself. When you wish to help other people before yourself, you are freed of the power of karma, of the inexorable force of habit.

[13:24]

We haven't quite named this room, but one idea that we had was to call it the Dharma Ocean Hall or the Dharma Sea Hall. Dharma Sea Hall sounds funny. The Hall of Dharma Sea. Anyway, we have this ocean nearby, so there's an ocean nearby. And people who get in the water, who are out in the water there, They may get in the water of an ocean or a lake or a river and be floundering around and choking because they kind of fell in by mistake. Unwittingly, unconsciously, they wound up in the water. Or they may be in the water because there was something in the water which was very precious and they wanted it, so they jumped in.

[15:02]

Are you in this world unwittingly? By chance, did you fall in here? Do you fall into circumstances of your life or have you willingly decided to dive in to this birth and death process in order to help all beings? This vow makes the difference between being at the mercy of your karma, being at the mercy of the waves of change, and living a life where you're free because you've chosen

[16:32]

to live in this world in order to help others. Because you want it to be like a Buddha who comes into this world to help people. Depending on whether you let your karma or your vow to benefit all beings get the upper hand, this ocean can be medicine or poison. depending on whether you can find the heart that sees how impermanent this all is and wishing to use this little bit of opportunity to help people if you can find that heart or not or let that heart actually let that take precedence over the heart or the mind that wants to manipulate conditions

[18:28]

depending on which one takes precedence, your life will either be a situation where you're submitting or rebelling on one side, or your life will become a love story. The other night I was driving back from San Francisco late at night. It was dark.

[19:35]

And I was driving down a hill and I kind of was thinking of buying myself a shaving mirror. But I hadn't fully decided. I was kind of like, you know, contemplating it. I'd sort of thought about doing it, but I wasn't sure if I really was going to do it. But anyway, at the bottom of this hill, there's a divisadero hill going down to Lombard Street. At the bottom of this hill, there's a Walgreens store. the pure land of Walgreens. But in my ambivalent state, as I got to the bottom of the hill, I got into the left turn lane.

[20:50]

which is the lane I usually take when I turn to go back out to Green Gulch from that place. But then as I started to turn, I thought, no, I think I would like to get this shaving mirror. And I was turning left, but there was a car on my right, a white car, and it was turning left too. This is something that was happening here in this world. So as I sort of changed my mind from turning left to wanting to go to Walgreens, I couldn't go straight ahead to Walgreens and then turn into their parking lot. I had to sort of go with the flow of my karma. and turn left, which I did, and didn't run into that white car.

[22:01]

Or I also didn't do the, I guess, maybe, what do you call it, get a moving violation for going straight when I was supposed to turn left. I turned left. But then I still wanted to go to Walgreens, so I pulled over and parked on the side of Walgreens. not in their parking lot. They had a parking lot, but I couldn't get into the parking lot. Actually, I could have. I could have driven all the way around the block and come back into the parking lot, but I just parked outside there in the night. And I went into Walgreens and got the shaving mirror, and I came back outside and got in my car, and I saw a little piece of paper on the windshield. Just a little piece of paper.

[23:04]

Maybe some advertisement. Maybe an invitation to a séance or something. And then a thought crossed my mind. Well, if it's one of those things, I just leave them there for a while. But the thought crossed my mind, maybe it's a ticket. A parking ticket. I wonder what kind it is. And I said, shit. And I just couldn't wait to see what kind of a ticket it was going to be. So I opened the door, reached around and pulled it in and looked and saw what it was.

[24:26]

I was parking in a bus stop. I looked at, I looked at, wondered how I would find out how much this cost. So I looked around, you know, but actually, it said right there what it was. It had this number up there. And I thought maybe the decimal point was in the wrong place. Was I missing something? Is this some kind of like a national debt figure? And then I looked around to see, well, you know, Was my car's license plate written on this thing?

[25:30]

Was this actually me getting this ticket? No, not me. They wouldn't do this to me. It's just not fair. The waves are constantly shifting and rising and falling. They're really unpredictable. You know, you're driving along, you get in a lane, car's in your way, you park someplace, and then zip-a-roo, some little... some little putt-putt comes running over. You know, in the middle of the night, out of nowhere. Zap! And then flash, it's gone.

[26:35]

You know? You can't predict. You never know when it's going to happen. To you. To me. What should you do? Meekly accept? Fight back? Well, meekly accepting is probably better than... Actually, excuse me for saying so. Not excuse me for saying so. Be happy that I'm going to tell you that I thought of fighting back. And when I got home I read, you know, some information on the card about what it would mean to fight back. And they had anticipated most of my rebelliousness.

[27:45]

So rebellion just didn't seem to be quite it. How about meekly accepting? Well, that's kind of crummy, too. What's the other alternative? The other alternative is, this is a love story. This is life, real life, coming and touching me in a way that makes me remember what my orientation is or isn't. Is my orientation to get my way in the world of karma? And if I don't, fight back? Or if I don't meekly accept because karma is powerful? Or is there some other way? Is there some way to see this as a love story? To see this person in that little tiny vehicle that came and gave me a ticket as my lover

[29:02]

unwanted lover. And I thought of the words of one Zen master, to gain is to lose, and to lose is to gain. Or another way they say it, to gain is delusion. To lose is enlightenment. You could say, those words came to my head and I thought, well, are you trying to pass it, you know, soothe yourself? To lose is to gain, to gain is to lose. And so you can use it that way. But if you work on it a little while, it takes you to another level. The reason why you gain when you lose is because when you lose it reminds you that this world is not a place for you to gain.

[30:16]

It's not a place for me to gain something. That's not a good thing to be doing in this world. If you came here to get something out of life, to squeeze all the juice out of it for yourself, you're in the wrong place. This place is not set up for that. This place is set up for love. And love is not something where you get something for yourself. Love is not where you're trying to suck something out of the situation and get things to go your way. Love is intimacy with what's happening. Intimacy is not nice or not nice. It's not good or bad. It's being close. And not being close to get something, but just being close.

[31:20]

In order to benefit all beings. When you lose things, it reminds you, oh yeah, that's what this world's about. Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. Sometimes people you love do just what you want. That's okay. It's rare, but sometimes they do. But mostly, they don't do what you want. And some people so much don't do what you want that you don't even consider that you love them in the first place. But if you hang in there long enough, pretty soon all the people you know you love will ask you to help the person that you don't think you love, who's really doing something you don't like. If I had rebelled enough, eventually you all would say, would you please love that meter person, or that parking ticket person?

[32:32]

You're getting off the track here. Somebody left this lecture already. Some one person left. I don't know why that person left, but anyway. Somebody left. Wasn't you, Jerry. But it reminded me that there's somebody in this room. She told me that she came to my talks and usually she had to leave. That's why I'm sitting here. You learned. I learned that one. I don't know what the reason was exactly, but anyway, she was moved to get out of the room. You have to see whether you're running away from intimacy or not. Like somebody was asking me, what if somebody else doesn't want to be intimate?

[33:39]

What do you do then, you know? And sometimes what you do is... Louder? Yeah. Sometimes somebody may give you an impression that they don't want to be intimate with you. So I'm not saying... I can't say, you know, what the intimate response or what the... response to develop intimacy will be in any situation. But it might be that you say, I'd like to get clear now whether you want to become more intimate. And the person might say, the reason. And they might say, no, I don't want to. And you might try to find out what the reason for that is. And they might not want to even talk to you about the reason. And you might Talk to them about what the reason for not even talking to you about it would be. And finally they might say, I'm leaving.

[34:43]

And you might say, okay. But all that might be coming from your willingness to develop intimacy. And the other person's response of leaving is, It might be coming from intimacy, and it also might be coming from their unwillingness to be intimate with you, or vice versa. We're both saying goodbye. Yeah. And that might be... But you have to see whether... Where is it coming from? And you can't be sure. It certainly doesn't come, you know, gift-wrapped. I know I had a problem with being that close. Well, right. She does too. Right. And I think part of the problem is that people don't understand that it's normal to have a problem with intimacy. It's normal. Like I told someone a little while ago, I wanted to be close to my teacher, Suzuki Roshi.

[35:52]

I set up my life to be near him And I was. My room was right next to his. He practically had to trip over me to get around the building. I wasn't lurking. I wasn't lurking. But I was just in all the places where he was. And he had to deal with me. And he knew that I wanted to be with him, so he gave me also chances to be with him. And sometimes when he gave me the chance to really be close to him and said, you know, here, come into my room and sit down, and really opened up to me, I wanted to get out of the room. Even though my whole life was set up to be with him. I couldn't stand the intensity and the embarrassment and the exposure of myself. But since I wanted to be with him, he wanted to be with me. And since he wanted to be with me, there I was. And when I was there, I didn't want to be there because I didn't want to see myself.

[36:55]

So it's normal not to be able to stand it. It's terrifying. So don't be hard on yourself for not being able to stay there with what happens when you get what you want. Just like my daughter and my wife, when they met, they got what they wanted and it turned out to be more than they could stand and then they fought. But their love for each other is, you know, infinite. But who can stand infinity? Nobody. Nobody can stand infinity. It, you know, it liberates you. But if there's any, if you want to hold on to anything, forget it. So, you know, maybe now you say goodbye, but the story is never over. Love, you know, love doesn't end. And the story goes round and round.

[37:58]

This other thing you said about, you know, giving to the world and, you know, not involving just in your own self, I could relate to that completely. And being buffeted by the waves of karma all the time. And I think, you know, 23 years, I don't have a lot of time left. I think about it all the time. Good. But the minute step... from wanting something for yourself or helping people all the time, it's very difficult for me to get to that, just to make that step. And I've been wanting to make the step. But, you know, I'm not making the step. And I realize what I've had. But I haven't tried that way yet. And I don't have a lot of time. No. You know, in a way, I would say making the step is not difficult. If it's difficult, you haven't done it. It's not really difficult. It's impossible at that time. You just haven't done it.

[38:59]

But it happens effortlessly. And it's right under your face right now. It's in your heart. It's already there. You already have it. It's not something you have to get or do. We're not powerful enough to all of a sudden become that kind of person by our will. It's only because we're really that way that we can wake up to that. That's why it's not that Buddhas make people into these kind of things. Buddhas open people to this. Open yourself to it. That's all you have to do is open yourself to it. You don't have to do anything. And before you're open to it, you're blocking yourself from it and you're the only one who can block it and you're sufficient to block it. That's why we practice the sitting. Because when you sit and do something so stupid, it's just to sit there without trying to get anything out of it. Okay? When you sit that way, you're just like that.

[40:04]

You're not doing it for yourself anymore. And you're not doing it for any idea. And that's what it means to really do it for others. It's beyond your idea even. That's why the sitting helps this, as a way to understand what it means to open up to Buddha's wisdom, is to do something where you're no longer trying to get something for yourself. But it's not like you're not trying to get something for yourself either. And at first when you start sitting, you think, well, it's going to help me this way, it's going to help me that way, it's going to help me this way, that's fine. But you notice over the years that you keep changing the reason. It changes. It changes. And after a while you realize none of these reasons are the reason. There's no reason. It's an unreasonable thing. It's irrational. It's beyond the mind. So, you know, I was attracted to Zen because of the behavior of these Zen monks, these people who just spontaneously were kind of more into helping other people than themselves.

[41:11]

You know, that was kind of the most interesting thing, and it was so beautiful. And I found out they all did this ridiculous practice of just sitting. And that all Buddhas do that as a way to open up and disclose this heart. So somehow we have to find this quiet place in our life and find this place where we understand the oneness of ourselves and all Buddhas, and the oneness of all people and all Buddhas. We have to find that place. Then everything will be simple. You say we have such a short time. I was thinking when I was meditating that I'm now a person of action.

[42:16]

I have a lot of things to do, a lot of people to help every day. Yes. The point now for me is to figure out how to be skillful in that. Because I know that I have accepted this in a way of life that I want to help other beings. Yes. Sometimes you... saying, I don't know how. You know, am I doing it right? What can I do better? So that seems to be the point of having a short amount of time, is that by the time you figure out, you know, not to worry about yourself so much, or whatever it is that you need to figure out, then you have to think about how to actually go about doing the work that you want to do. And how do we do that? I mean, I know how to do that. We learn from each other. We practice Right. You didn't talk about skillful beings, but that's the other side. Right. Well, the way the word I used to enter that today, the word I used was intimacy.

[43:23]

I was thinking of how that ties with responsibility. Because what you're saying, when you're close, You have to deal with it. So that's a response. And that's responsibility. That you can't choose to ignore this part. You have to respond. That's what that means. Anyway, it's just a good word for me. I like responsibility. Yeah. Responsibility is... Responsibility and intimacy are very close. Because when you're intimate, it has to do with being responsible. Taking... In other words, taking... Owning up to your own contribution... but also being able to respond. You can't have one without the other. You mess up your intimacy if you're not responsible. You mess up your responsibility if you're not into it. Right. So dancing is helpful. Dancing is a helpful analogy or a helpful practice to think of it as dancing. Think of all these as dancing. If you have skill and means, it isn't that you come knowing what the dance will be.

[44:33]

It will change depending on your partner. So, the skill and means comes from the intimacy, not from you knowing something. Skill and means is not a possession of the skillful one. Skill and means is stuff what comes from a person who is in proper responsiveness to the situation. Right. Right. Right. That's right. But still, then you have to take responsibility that you know things. And if you take responsibility that you know things, then you can respond better. But not responsible for knowing things like, I know things and this is what's going to happen. Rather, I take responsibility means I know that because I know these things, I'm going to respond partly according to what I know. If I know this dance step, I'm going to respond differently than if I don't know it. I have to take responsibility that I have some experience in this. I have to use it appropriately, not shove it down the other person's throat and not pretend like I don't know this stuff.

[45:40]

What's the, what's the, what's the way to dance with this person? That will be skill and means. But that's very intimate. And, again, if you, if you dance, if you go to a dance, or to a dancing class, and you dance with somebody you don't know, you might feel good to be able to, you know, basically the person, all they want to do with you is dance, probably, or not dance, whatever. If you dance with somebody you know, there's all that history there. You know? It means much more. It's much more complex. So, it's harder in some ways to be intimate with the person you know better. When you first meet somebody, like I say, you know ways of getting intimate right off. There's ways, or getting more intimate anyway, there's ways that will work with almost everybody.

[46:45]

You can repeat and have the satisfaction of that with everybody. But with some people, you're on, what do you call it, you're on the cutting edge of intimacy. You don't know what it will be. When you've been with somebody a long time, you don't know what it's going to be. You've never done it before. This has never happened before. And so, like, there's certain things you can say to people which will break the ice, so to speak, and relax and open up and warm and these kinds of things. And it'll happen with... To talk about, to address when you're a victim of something, when it's a karmic process, because what if you took that situation that was, you know, you gave that beautiful poetic description of, you know, getting party to you, but what if you took that to a much more threatening and harmful situation where somebody, you know, was killing you or violating you sexually or any number of really horrifying things?

[47:56]

Okay. How can you resolve that as being for yourself? Because that... Right, right, yes. Yes. Right. Yeah. I mean, all this is articulate. It's articulate. Well, the example of the parking ticket is you can put whatever you want in there. If someone's trying to violate me sexually, what does that mean? Someone is is moving towards me, let's say, physically approaching me and starting, you know, threatening to or starting to touch me physically.

[49:03]

And, or someone's insulting me, you know, verbally or physically, insulting or attacking me. I feel that. That's what my body feels, a situation like that. So, what I'm saying to you is that to fight it is one approach, but that's still dealing with it in terms of karma. If something's happening to me, I'm going to act back. Or the other way would be accept it. If you really accept it, then you can say, well, then if I really accept it, then I'm not really being violated, you could say, if I accept it. meekly accept the power that life is manifesting this way to me. Life is manifesting as somebody giving me a ticket, or somebody driving into my car, or somebody dropping a bomb on top of me, or somebody punching me, or somebody trying to, you know, exploit me.

[50:13]

These things manifest in the world. And I can give in to them or fight back. It's basically, that's the realm of karma. The question is, do I feel like I fell into this and it's not fair? And even though it's not fair, I think it's better to give in than to fight back. Or, it's not fair, I'm going to fight back. Is that the mode I'm operating on? Or am I operating on the mode of, this is just like every other situation. The question is, what can I do to help? I'm not a victim in this situation. It doesn't mean that I suddenly like what the person is doing, both in terms of what's happening to me and what it's doing for them. It doesn't mean that at all. It means, how can I help this person? That's the switch. It's not manipulative.

[51:17]

It's opening up to the vast sky. It's opening up to nothing. It's being interested in nothing. It's chasing after nothing. It's only concerned with what will be helpful. I'm no longer a victim. I'm a Buddha. Buddhas willingly give up much more than their body for people. Would it be helpful to give up the body? Give it up. Would it be unhelpful to give the body up? Don't give it up. What's helpful? Orient in towards what is helpful. What is helpful for this person who's right in your face and for everybody else? That's the orientation. That's not a victim orientation. That is the orientation of the universe. To say it's all-powerful?

[52:19]

Fine. The point is it's more than all-powerful. It's just what's happening. What will really help this person is really... what's happening. But if you're not oriented towards what's going to help the person, then you can't use what's happening. If you're trying to manipulate or giving in, not really, but sort of going with it, it's not as full of participation as what would be helpful to this person. Even people who are being nice to you, you can still say, while they're not violating you and being really kind to you and so on, you can still say, what would be helpful to this person? You might say, even if it's a Buddha, you might say, what would be helpful to this person? And in fact, this person is a Buddha. All people are Buddhas. And even though all people are Buddhas, most people need help to realize that they're Buddhas. Then this world of assault, attack, insult, and terror is a playground.

[53:31]

But if you're not at the center of this playground, like they have, when I was a kid, they had these circular discs that were shaped like cones. you know, and you climb at the fair, and they spin around. You had to get up in the center of it not to get thrown off. When it was going slowly, you could stay on pretty far from the center. But as it speeded up, you had to get more and more towards the center. And at the highest possible speed, the only place you could be and still stay on it would be at the middle. That's where the Bodhisattvas play, at the middle. of the turning world. Yes. And it's a very concrete example, you know.

[54:38]

Of course I care so much for that kid who did that. It's so obvious that, you know, that kid is the one who needs the help. It's very clear. I mean, of course I'm still frightened, but that story that you told makes you think you're not an idiot. It guides you towards... Tell it again. Before I tell it, how are you doing? What's your name? Autumn. Autumn? How are you doing? Do we address this or do you have more questions? Part of me feels defensive and maybe that's part of the whole, you know, part of me feels like it's still not, because actually we're talking as if the action hasn't occurred and that there's some gap between the action, but I'm more talking from a point of view of being the person who's had many, many, many violations. And at what point when you're trying to separate yourself from that and change directions in life, for example, you could continue, obviously, but it's not, like you said, it's hell, right?

[55:52]

But it's not that my hell, the way I'm thinking of it, isn't the same way that you described in your lecture. It's more of the victim sensation, which is things are happening to you and... Or already have happened. Have happened and, right, at this point have happened. Right. You know, at what point do you try to understand if you're trying to recover and get on a different track, where the responsibility is? Like if you're trying to, because if you take all the responsibility yourself... then that's meaning that it's your karma that you had to go through this, right? No. No, I wouldn't... How do you explain when you've been extremely violent? Yes. Because I can pick the approach which I have for 20 years of forgiving and feeling the compassion towards the people that have done that to me.

[56:57]

Yes. But then my behavior now, it comes out the way that I deal with the world. It's like, you know, a crab that's hiding in a shell that's afraid. Yes. I can't even walk out, you know, sometimes out of my house. Right. It's scary, right? Yes. Well, but it's understandable, you know, that if your body... If something happens to you physically or emotionally that's very painful it's quite understandable that you would need to have some time to heal from that. That's understandable. And it's unreasonable to not give that to yourself that you would need that time to recover. I think that's fine. as part of being intimate with the process, is to realize that you somehow have been hurt, and that you're not up for, when I get hurt like that, I'm not necessarily up for getting hurt again.

[58:13]

And not being up for it means that if it happens, I won't really be there and respond to it appropriately. I might fight back. So if I'm not ready for the game, I should probably just say, I disqualify myself, because I really don't want another blow. The last one I got, okay, that happened, and now I'm recovering. Maybe after I recover, I'll want to come up and play the game again, where I might get hurt again, but right now I don't want to, and if I get hit again, I'll probably just myself do something violent. So I disqualify myself temporarily. Could I please be excused from this And sometimes the answer is yes, you can. And then later you might feel like, okay, I want to play again. But you need healing time. It's possible that the next time you play that you might get hurt in a similar way, but understand it differently.

[59:15]

and still need healing time before you can play again, but understand that it wasn't a victim situation that time, that this time you voluntarily came up from woundedness and wanted to play again. And you got hurt again, but it wasn't by accident, it was because you wanted to play a game where you can get hurt. a similar wound, but you don't feel like a victim at that time, because you knew that you were going to play a game where you can get hurt. And in this human game, we can get hurt. People can hurt our body. They can hit it and hurt it. And the body will say, or the little person inside will say, take me home. I don't want to play anymore. And you should say, I think really you should say, somebody wants me to take her home. I've been at meetings where people have, you know, I'm being abbot of this place. People want to see, can they kill the abbot? Gangs of people come at me and rip my heart apart.

[60:21]

And it took me a long time to realize there was somebody inside there who was saying, I don't like this, take me home. So after a while, I just started saying, excuse me, I'm leaving, when that happened. I took her home. Little girl inside me. It took me a long time to hear her and listen to her. You know? She's like, uh, She's about four years old. Her name's Betty. And she, generally speaking, is wearing a party dress. You know? And she does not appreciate somebody throwing her down in the mud. And when it happens, she just becomes hysterical, and she just does not want to be in a situation anymore. She wants to go home, clean up, and rest. Now, there's a big, strong man outside her that can take a lot. But one of the things he can do is take care of her. And so now he takes her home when that happens. But then she sometimes, after she recovers, she said, let's go out to play again. Take me out again, dad or big brother or whatever. And she wants to play again. But then we know what we're doing. And we know we might get hurt. And when we get hurt, we say, I'm hurt.

[61:25]

If they come again, we say, I'm hurt. Still, I might get hurt, but I willingly got into this. The thing is, are you ready to get into it? And it is a dangerous, life is dangerous. Death is dangerous. Things are changing. It's not a safe situation, but it is a playground. If you're not up for it, rest. You'll be up for it later. Because your heart wants to go out and play with all beings. Even those big, rough, cruel ones who are insensitive to the fact that they can hurt you. You even want to play with them eventually. And if you're skillful, you can. But if you're unskillful, they'll throw you for a loop. Unskillful means if you try to get anything out of it, then those big, powerful forces will throw you. those big, powerful mothers and fathers and big women and big men, they'll throw you for a loop. But if you have no agenda, if you're not seeking anything except to help, which you don't even know what that is, then things don't throw you anymore.

[62:32]

Still, you can get hurt, though, even though you're not thrown. And when you get hurt without being thrown, you go rest. So it's possible that But the key thing is, do you want to play in a game where you can get hurt? In all games, you can get hurt. All games. Because we have all these layers of sensitivity. On some levels, we can be killed by someone just turning their love away from us a little bit. It can kill us, literally. And in some worlds you can't indict a person for that. But now in Buddha's world, you know a person can be held accountable for hurting someone's heart deep, deep down. But the question is, do you want to play the game? Do you want to be in the world where you can get hurt on the surface, halfway down, and all the way to the bottom of your being you can be hurt?

[63:35]

Do you want to play? If not, wait until you do. I say wait until you do. Don't get ahead of yourself. Eventually you'll want to play all the way. You want to play the big game. Eventually you will. And you can work up to it by playing the games that you want to play. that you feel ready for, where you feel like you're willing to take the chance. Until then, rest and recover and take care of yourself. And don't be against yourself for needing recovery time. It's normal. It's healthy. The biggest, strongest athletes, when they get hurt, they rest. And if they don't, their game goes down, down, down. But they rest and they rest and they rest. until they're ready to come back and play. And some retire and say, I'm not going to play that game anymore. My body can't take it. It's too crushing. Well, fine. You decide that's not a game for you. Then you play some other game. Become a sportscaster. That can be vicious too.

[64:35]

Or become a coach. Or become a fundraiser. All those realms can be dangerous. The key thing is, do you want to dance? If not, wait until you're ready. Sit in the sidelines, be a wallflower for a while. But the time will come, if you sit quietly on the edge of the floor long enough, the time will come when you say, okay, I want to dance. And when you start dancing, you can be embarrassed, your feelings can get hurt, you can sprain your ankle, you can break your leg. These are things that happen to our friends, you know. This is not theoretical. But if you get up and dance without making the decision to dance, and you break your leg, then it's your victim. Good. Yes? I wanted to... I think it speaks, actually, to both of these. When you're dancing with someone, and they step on their foot, and you say, you're on my foot. Yes.

[65:39]

And I go back and step on it again. Yes. and you decide to leave and talk to other people and they say, oh, yeah, they only step on my foot, too. What responsibility do I have to call a person like that? I mean, perhaps this person has robbed other people, for example. Yes. Whatever. What responsibility do we have? It's up to you. I wish, I vow to have complete responsibility to help that person who's stepping on my feet or your feet. I want to help that person and I want to take full responsibility to help that person. What does that mean? You know? I don't know what it would mean in this case. If I was in a position of dancing with somebody and they were leading and stepping on my foot, um, I mean, I might just look him in the face and say, you know, you really, I really feel that you should have to do some remedial work.

[66:47]

And I'm willing to give you that remedial work, but this is going to be remedial work, you know, and it's going to be a strange dance because you have this problem. So we're going to do this other kind of dance where stepping on my feet is not going to be a problem. and you're going to stay at a distance from me. You might develop some special kind of therapy for this person who is particularly awkward and particularly insensitive. You might do that because you care about this person, this awkward, potentially dangerous being. Who's going to help this person if not you? Well, Buddha is not trying to pass it on to somebody else. Now, sometimes there's Zen stories where teachers pass on the student to somebody else, not because they don't want to help the student, but because they are helping the student by passing him on to someone else. They can see.

[67:53]

There are important stories where the student comes, opens to the teaching, the teacher gives it to him, but he can't get it. So he sends it to somebody else, and the next teacher gives him exactly the same teaching, and he gets it. It's almost like mental celebrity over the mountains. This other teacher gives exactly the same teaching. It's really the same teaching, but from a different person, and the person understands it. But the first person wasn't relinquishing his responsibility. He was fulfilling his responsibility to get somebody who could teach it. So you might also find, you might say to the person, I want you to go study dancing with this guy. I want you to study dancing with a man. He's got bigger feet than you. And you can step on his feet and he can show you what that's about. Or he can step on your feet and teach you. In other words, you look for a situation where this person will learn. And if you find kids on the street that are being violent or harmful, your approach is now, what will help these kids?

[68:57]

And you never know what it will be. It might be helpful to go up and say, you are bad boys. You know, that might help. But that might not help. Usually it doesn't. Because they've heard that about 50,000 times already. What usually helps them is to go up and say, you know, I got a better game for you guys. Or, that was really cool what you did there. You know, my little baby sister could do that too. Or, there's millions of ways that might be... And you mean it, and you know what you're talking about. Did you ever see that movie Stand and Deliver? Did you see it? He brings these kids in, these very sharp kids. They're super smart, but they don't know how to count because they've been outsmarting the teachers all the way. So he gets them at their own game and outdoes them, you know. He's right there with them and he just, hmm, what's this? He plays their game. He doesn't get them to play his game. He plays their game better than them.

[70:02]

Hmm. You got to play their dance sometimes. One time I heard about some science fiction thing. These people land on the planet, you know, and somebody said, the more intelligent of us will learn the other one's language. The colonizer, the oppressor, expects the oppressed to learn his language. The intelligent one will learn the other one's language. When you go to Japan, I go to Japan, you know, my Japanese is not very good, but when I go there, the fact that I'm trying to learn Japanese, they think I'm pretty smart. Not that I can speak it so well, but the fact that I'm trying is fairly intelligent from their point of view. Japanese people, generally speaking, do not think it's very intelligent when people come to their country and don't learn their language. Now, at the same time, they want to learn English, so if these stupid people will come over there and be their English teachers, fine. They'll suck up all the English, very happily.

[71:02]

But if you're also trying to learn their language, then they go, hmm. And isn't that really what's intelligent? When someone sees you and they respect you, don't you think they're intelligent? And aren't they? Isn't someone who respects you an intelligent person? Don't they have good taste? So, if this person is stepping on your feet and you think he's an oaf and a moron and a dangerous person and you want to get rid of him, well, is that intelligent? Everybody knows he's an oaf. Everybody knows he's dangerous. Blah, blah, blah. Who knows that he's worthy of respect and worthy of your devotion? Who knows that? Buddha knows that. And the thing in you that respects this person and wants to help him and knows that he has potential, this is something very intelligent, very wise, and very kind. And if he can see that, he will be converted. He still may take him a while to learn how to dance, but at least he'll become your student.

[72:09]

You say, what do you want me to learn? You respect me, I respect you. What's the name of the game? violence, awkwardness, stupidity, selfishness, whatever it is, if you can respect it as life, respect like in all its forms, you convert that life form not to you, you convert them to respect, namely respecting the respecter. It's not respecting you, it's respecting that you respect them. When someone sends me a letter, they do a salutation, and I think, can I match that salutation? With deepest respect, with all wholehearted love, sincerely, yours truly, warmly. Can I meet them? Can I play their game? I want to.

[73:09]

That's my vow. Not to get ahead of them. They say warmly, and I say, you know, intensely warmly. Not outdoing them. Just meet them. Just meet them. Meet them, meet them. And sometimes you meet them, meet them, meet them, and sometimes you know they really mean a little step more, and you guess, and you take a little bit, step more, and that's right. But usually it's just meet, meet, meet. Meet, meet, meet. But if it's a different kind of a being, what does it mean for you to meet a horse? What does that mean to meet? It weighs more than you, and so on. What does it mean to meet? You meet a horse not through your feet. You don't meet through the horse's feet. That's not where you meet the horse. You meet the horse with your hands and your legs, right? And you meet the horse, you know, around the reins, you know, and around its middle and midsection. You don't meet the horse around its rear, you know. You have to learn where to relate.

[74:10]

It takes all we've got to learn how to do this. The question is, do you want to? So that's another part of resting up. That's another part of sitting and resting. If you sit and rest, you'll find this thing that says, yeah, I want to go for it. I want to be a bodhisattva. I want to do this. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You may have to spend some time resting up and healing before you're up for this game. But the healing process, the resting process of our sitting practice is to get us ready for this very dangerous, intense and terrifying enterprise of being with what's happening there. Okay.

[75:11]

I really appreciated your talk today. It really plucked me very deeply, and I opened up very, very much. And thank you for that, for your talk, because it reminds me of what I'm struggling for. Intimacy, I'm almost to the other side of that. It's like I'm to a... And when I'm too intimate, very quickly, people check. And that's part of what being that way gives me the opportunity to be a better therapist. And what I've noticed in being very intimate and open is there's a tremendous amount of vulnerability. And it takes a considerable amount of courage to stay in the place of open heart and vulnerability, like Bodhisattva.

[76:19]

It takes a considerable amount of courage, did you say? Courage, for me. It takes courage for everybody. Yes, it does. This lady over here, so much has been talked about. It's been phenomenal. This lady here talked about in karma not wanting to be the victim. The victim abuse, I've been on both sides. I've been a victim and I've been at the abuser, and it's a very intimate dance that I have found. It can't be far enough. So I would like to send her words of encouragement. But my question to you is what I've noticed Perhaps you can help me with this. With your talk today, I've noticed myself, I've been coming here for 10 years, and I've noticed myself connecting with the people here who are familiar faces that I've known just from being here, and a little bit more deeply than I have in the past.

[77:28]

And I would like to notice the connection here. isn't as much as I would want it to be. And it seems that when you're talking, it's wonderful. When any other teacher talks here, I'm here to hear them talk. When I'm out there taking tea or having a muffin, I may nod to a few people. There's more... of a connection that I'd like to make, and I do attempt that. But in this community, I don't always see the willingness to be that intimate. And also, not just here, it seems to be, and I'm really careful here, because I don't want to upset anybody. In Lorain County, in the spiritual process of things here, I see very little intimacy and a tremendous amount of fear.

[78:35]

And it really, really... This is a place to connect. Marin County, in this area, has a tremendous amount of offer. And I see that. And I still see fear. And it saddens my heart. And I don't know, maybe you can comment on it. Well, I guess I have a little different point of view, although I think I see the same thing. But to me, it doesn't sadden my heart to see fear. Because I understand why we're afraid.

[79:39]

So to me, fear makes sense. Like I said, somebody came to see me. A lot of people, like this guy said, he came to see me because I was the person he didn't want to talk to. That's the unusual response. A lot of people are scared to death of me. A lot of people are afraid of me. I'm used... I was scared of you until I had that meeting with you. Yeah, right. And so... I understand, like I said, with my own teacher who I love very much and who was so kind to me, still I was afraid to be with him, even though that's what I wanted to be, with him. So I'm not sad about fear. I see fear as a normal part of my life. Now, some teachers, people aren't afraid of. Well, fine. That's their situation? Fine. I think, though, I guess, that as people become more intimate with them, they'll uncover some more stuff and they'll get to a place where they'll get afraid of that person, too.

[80:55]

Whereas people are usually afraid of me right off. You know? I'm a white male, right? and an authority position, this is the ideal situation to be afraid of, right? On the planet, it's the prototypic frightening creature. And I don't go around, I don't right away say to people, really, don't be afraid. And the reason why I don't say that is because I don't want to mislead people. It's not like it's not dangerous with me. It's not like it's not dangerous. It is dangerous with me, too, just like with other people. But I can say to you, my vow is, although it's dangerous, I will never abandon you. And if you get knocked down, I'll pick up the pieces, your pieces, and I'll stay there with you forever. But you might get hurt, and I might step on your foot. It might happen.

[81:58]

And you might step on my foot, and then I might run away. It's a question of you whether you'll stay with me. But people do get hurt in relationship to me, and they sense that they will, and they do. The question is, do you want to play? A lot of people don't. Fine. Eventually, everyone will. You know, I'll get my chance to be friends with people, everybody, too, eventually. It may take many, many... Comps. Yeah. But... I know we'll all eventually be close. So I'm not sad about fear. I see it in my life, it's inevitable. Because I'm working with, we're working with something which is very, which is, you know, not destructive, but which is just, you know, beyond ourself. Ourself will not be able to hold still and hold on to what's really happening.

[83:00]

And I think it's normal that people would be anxious about that. Anxiety is the natural state of people. They can't stand the anxiety, so they turn it into fear. So I'm not sad about that. I agree with you. And also, you say there's not much intimacy, but I say, if somebody's afraid of me, we're already pretty intimate. I think there's plenty of intimacy. However... In developing the intimacy from where it is now to its fulfillment, I see as an immense, an immense challenge and an immense opportunity. And there's tremendous danger between what we have now and finishing our job of becoming completely intimate with each other. There's tremendous danger there. However, there's more danger of not entering that space. So there is fear, and I hope in myself and others to encourage us, even though we're afraid, like this guy.

[84:04]

I didn't tell him to come to see me. He got over his fear and came to see me. And I think he felt almost everybody that does that is usually rewarded, not because anything about me, but because they got over their fear. And it's never as bad to come towards me as you think it's going to be. Sometimes worse, but it's never what you think. Yes? One of the things that... I keep hearing you say that intimacy is terrifying. And... When it gets to be highly developed, when it gets really close, when it's completed, it's not terrifying. When you are experiencing intimacy... My experience of intimacy is that it's so deeply soul-satisfied that I want more. It is frightening to approach it, but to be in it is not terrifying.

[85:08]

And the practice of meditation, I experienced my own intimacy, and it is so deeply satisfying that it hooks me, and it has hooked me. It's been difficult for me to become intimate. And having experienced it, it's wonderful. And to hear you keep saying that it's terrifying, I think it's misleading. You're here. And I'm not sure. What's misleading about it? Because it's not terrifying. Ha ha. It's not the whole story. No, it's not the whole story.

[86:10]

It would be misleading if you heard me, when I say it's terrifying, if you heard that's the whole story. That would be misleading. That would be a misinterpretation. If I say it's terrifying, I mean it's terrifying for me. If it's never terrifying for you, I would say you don't know what you're talking about. To be intimate? Yes. Are you saying that to be intimate is terrifying? Well, I'm saying that... When you're close, when you're very close, as you get closer to somebody, it gets more and more terrifying. When you're finally one with somebody, it's not terrifying anymore. You can't be terrified anymore because there's no other. But as you get closer and closer to the other, you get closer and closer to your death. Because you die at the other. But we want that death.

[87:13]

We want that union. And having that union is so satisfying, as you say. That's really what we want. That's really what we want. But as we approach it, we feel more and more anxiety. And so I'm saying that not so that you'll be discouraged, but so that you won't be surprised, shocked, and turned off when you feel this anxiety, which you can convert into fear. Around the approach. Okay. But I think that I wasn't hearing you say that. I was hearing you say something else. And that's why I really felt like I wanted to say what I wanted to say. Yeah, now you clarify it. It's closeness. As you get closer and closer, the anxiety increases. But when there's no seam anymore, there's no anxiety. And you're liberated. And satisfied. And that's what it means to want to help people. is to want to realize that oneness.

[88:17]

Where you don't want anything from... Where your connection is no longer with the idea of getting something for yourself. Right. And the closer you're closer to get to that place, the more the anxiety gets because you're getting closer and closer to the place you really want. It's enlightenment. But enlightenment a little bit away is so heart-rending. When you come, when you enter the Zendo and you sit and you are quiet with us, I feel intimate with you. Just as you're there 100%. And you too. I don't know if it's right or wrong. So the closer you get to the light, the more hardware you think that becomes.

[89:20]

Yes. That's the way you expose yourself to become vulnerable. That's right. And also the other person or the other side also does. But you still have to keep going, even though it gets scarier and scarier and more and more unknown. The encouragement is to keep going. It also gets exciting. Yeah, it gets exciting. And you have to be careful of the excitement. We say, when you're excited, it becomes a pitfall. You can't turn away from it, and you can't get excited about it. You just have to steadily, almost ruthlessly, keep walking towards the other, closer and closer. The choices that I'm making... I know are going to bring me pain, and yet I usually think also my heart's going to be more open. Yeah. I'm going to have more ease.

[90:22]

Yeah. And I keep saying to myself, this is your fool. This is a fool's way. Yeah, right, it is. This is a fool's way. It's the same song, we have the Zen song, which says, you know, turning away and touching are both wrong. If you're excited, it becomes a pitfall. If you hesitate, you know, you just go, oh, why didn't I hesitate, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Hesitating is not, you can't hesitate and you can't jump ahead. If you get excited, you get ahead of it or shrink back. Both of those are wrong. If you don't do either and just be upright and present with it, And then we call that practicing like a fool, like an idiot. It's foolish in a sense. You're like an idiot. But if you can get continuity with this kind of intimacy, this is called the teacher within the teacher.

[91:30]

But it says, if you can achieve continuity, in other words, it takes a lot of practice to get continuity. We touch it now and then, but to have continuity, to balance, to balance and have continuity, takes a lot of practice, many years, many thousands and thousands and millions of seconds of effort and attention. That's what we do in Siddha, yeah. Yeah, that's right. 100% being here with yourself. Right, right. And then? And then in meeting myself, I see in meeting so many other people, I've seen myself in so many other people, in meeting myself in so many different places. Yes. And I know people meet themselves in meeting me. Yes. And that pushes buttons. Yes. And I know that just for being me it's not always comfortable to meet myself in someone else.

[92:36]

No. It's not very comfortable. Sometimes it's great. Right. Well, you know, Dogen Zenji says that this path is the comfortable path, but he means comfortable under the circumstances of, you know, the way life can be. It's facing the discomfort. There's a certain amount of discomfort in this adjustment process. Well, see you later.

[93:15]

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