Okay, so kind of like starting from scratch, we have the world of materiality and there's two kinds of materiality that concern us and there's five kinds of what are called fields or vishaya and those are electromagnetic radiation, mechanical waves, chemical reactions, gaseous reactions and the most fundamental is actual tangible, just basically the most heavyweight tangible things. Those are the fields and those are gross and then they have the subtle materiality

[01:09]

which is the kind of materiality that is very sensitive to these five dimensions of gross materiality and in Buddhism they're called indriya, which means sovereign, like Indra. It means sovereign in the sense that it's sovereign over what type of consciousness will arise. The consciousness is named after the organ. Organs are sometimes also called roots, but the word here I'm using is indriya or organ. When those two are interacting, out of their interaction at some point in the evolution of this planet, consciousness arose and the consciousness as it arose had an object. The word for its object, which is called alambana,

[02:20]

its object is actually this field. For the organ it's a field, these gross materialities for the organ are fields, but for the consciousness they're objects. However, consciousness never really touches the field because it's separated from the field by the organ, which is subtle, but it's as though they're touching and that's called contact. It's as though they're touching, but the consciousness never really touches the materiality because the consciousness isn't tied down to a place. It arises from things which are tied down in places but it doesn't have a location. So vijnana means knowledge of difference. I have no idea of any questions. Where, anything? I don't know, there are a whole bunch of words,

[03:31]

now you just introduced two more words that I don't know, so I don't know what to tell you. You don't know these words? No. Do you have any questions? Well, could you please start again? You don't know the word field? The field I got. Is the concept of the field familiar to you? Yeah. Well, I just told you the Sanskrit word for it, that's all. I don't want it. Forget it. This is just in case you should happen to run into that Sanskrit word, you'll know what it is. You don't have to learn these Sanskrit words unless they're helpful. Anyway, so the organ, the organs are material of a more sensitive, which emphasizes their sensitivity. So like I was saying this morning, like if you live in a situation where there's material, some kind of gross material like dirt or rocks, and you move light over the surface, the light will have an effect on the

[04:33]

surface, but basically it will have a similar effect to the rock, and when it touches organic material, things that have carbon in them, it will have a similar effect on different carbon compounds, but when the light shines on certain kinds of carbon compounds, if they seem to react in some kind of unexpected and differentiated way, you spot light. And that makes you feel like you've got a kind of very receptive and subtle and flexible form of materiality, which we call organs. And when this kind of interaction happens long enough, it seems that life was born in such situations. And consciousness is the thing that arises out of this kind of materiality, and consciousness was not materially located. And the name of this kind of consciousness has several

[05:37]

names, but the name I want to use now is Vijnana because it means knowledge of difference, or knowledge that arises out of difference. And first of all, of difference in different kinds of materiality. However, the consciousness is not aware of the organ, it is aware of the object. Or not aware in the sense of knowing, but just affected by. It has an object. And the word alambana is related to the word alaya. Alambana means something you hook onto. Okay? So Robin? I was going to ask you, by organ now, are you talking about the ability to see? Yes, right. It's a capacity. These are capacities. They're not, again, like I say, the eyeball is not the eye organ. But the eye organ is located around the eyeball. You can't see the eye organ. Sometimes they use the image of, like if you melt butter, the kernel part, the way, is it called the

[06:43]

way? And on top it's the ghee. You can like see through the ghee to the way. The ghee is almost transparent. The ghee is like the organ, and the way is like the object. So you can see through, you can like see through the subtle material to the gross. And the subtle is also performs, basically performs the function of being sensitive. And by being sensitive, it's separate. It works with the other kind to create consciousness, and consciousness then is separated from its object by this subtle form of materiality, which it cannot see. It cannot see. In other words, it has trouble seeing the way it's caused. It only tends to see half of its causation, which is a key there, John. Since you say that there can be no real contact between the organs

[07:51]

and feel, I wonder about, it seems to me that maybe it's a problem to even talk about feel and materiality, other than talking about apparent feel and apparent materiality. I wonder if you agree with that. Yeah, it's all apparent. And it can't be other than, or it can't be known other than being apparent. Correct. In other words, Buddhist epistemology is that our knowledge is based on apparent things. We come up with a knowledge, but the basis of our knowledge is appearances, behind which there is no support other than causes and effects. So there doesn't really need to be the assumption that these fields exist, or that, as you were talking earlier today, that property, that nature outside of us exists. No. You don't have to do that. It's just that by telling this story, you will see how this

[08:57]

story evolves into another story, which is a story of where we live, and where we create substance and misery and bondage. But it's modeled on this first level of development, and on this first level of development, the consciousness has objects. These fields are objects of consciousness, and by being objects of consciousness, they are not known. Just pure objects of consciousness are not known. So at this level of functioning, direct experience is happening, and there is consciousness of it in the sense of there is a non-physical effect of this interaction. There is an impression created in what's called mind of this interaction,

[10:03]

of this experience of materiality affecting this body. Materiality affecting this body, there is an impression of that. There is a knowledge of that, but it's not objective knowledge. Yes? When you say the field or the object doesn't even touch the organ, there is no contact, is there? No. The field and the organ do touch. However, if you want to go to the emptiness of the process right away, you can just do that for just a little example. If you look at anything that touches, if you actually look at something touching, either overlaps or it doesn't. Okay? If it overlaps, it doesn't touch, they become merged. If it doesn't overlap, then they don't touch. They don't merge. So actually contact doesn't really happen. Contact is an illusion,

[11:16]

there's nothing to it. So in the same way, these are called ... I don't know if you've heard these in the Heart Sutra, it talks about the five skandhas and it talks about the twelve ayatanas and the eighteen dhatus. It talks about, you know, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no consciousness. Okay? And no eyes, no ears, no noise, no colors, no sound. That particular pair there is twelve of those, six and six. Those are called the ayatanas, which means the doors of arrival, the doors of arrival of consciousness. In other words, you get these six sets, these six pairs of doors. The doors have two elements, an organ and a field. Those are the six doors by which consciousness is born. Okay? But if you watch these doors,

[12:21]

these portals of the birth of consciousness, if you watch and examine how they meet, you realize they never meet and therefore consciousness never really arises. But this is going back to the emptiness of all process right away, which the Heart Sutra is doing. I'm trying to teach you the origination of illusion, but you can deconstruct at any time, any point along the way if you want to, I'm willing to do that. But this actual meeting cannot occur. If things meet, if they just touch but don't overlap, they don't meet. Why? I don't understand. I know you don't. I know you don't. But you have to. Why isn't this meeting? Okay. If they're separated, all right, are they meeting? No. No. Okay. If they're a tiny bit apart, are they meeting? If there's no distance between them, are they meeting? Well, it's a convincing sensation that something's meeting.

[13:23]

In other words, it's real. Is that what you're saying? No, that's what you call meeting. That's what you call meeting, but there is no meeting. There is what we call meeting. We call it that. When that arises, we call it that. Yes, but if you study it, what you call meeting is not there. If you study it, you don't find anything other than what we call meeting. Tell me what meeting is. [...] Tell me what it is. Tell me what it is. That situation. Tell me. The situation. Tell me. That's meeting. Did you see it? Okay. What's meeting? Tell me what it is. It's when two... I mean, contact only happens... It's when the contact happens? ...at the boundaries of two things, when those kind of touch. So contact hasn't anything to do with merging. Contact has actually something to do with... When do they meet? Do they meet when they're separated?

[14:25]

Huh? If they don't meet when they're separated, if they're not separated, are they separated when they meet? There's no essential meaning of meeting. Just try to do this analysis, okay? Just try to do it. Do they... Do they... Are they separated when they meet or not? Are they separated when they meet or not? A thing called meeting happens, but I'm trying to show you that the thing called meeting, it has no substance. Because if they meet, either they're separated or they're not. You choose. If you say they're separated when they meet, they don't meet. If you say they're not separated, then they can't meet either. Merging doesn't have substance. So if they merge, then that wouldn't have any more substance than if they don't merge.

[15:26]

So it's just... You can describe everything. Everything has exactly the same... What are you trying to do, Stuart? What are you doing now, Stuart? What's the matter? What's the matter? Are you scared of something? No. What are you doing? I'm trying to rescue this discussion. From what, Stuart? From meaninglessness, from confusion. Stuart is trying to rescue this, okay? So we've got him here. If anybody... If this gets into meaninglessness, he will rescue it. We've already got there. No. You mean you can't do it? Right. You can be... We'll assign you Rescuer of Meaninglessness, okay? But in the meantime, just look at this. If things meet... This is just... I'm just teaching you something I read in a sutra, okay? This is not something I made up. This is Buddha taught, okay? Just try it out. When the doors of arrival, the things that... The places where consciousness arise, okay? They arise where these things are said to meet.

[16:30]

The contact between the organ and the object give rise to the consciousness. That's the contact between the three. That's what makes consciousness arise, okay? But the Buddha pointed out that this meeting never occurs. Therefore, consciousness does not happen. However, if you want to think that it does meet, then this is how we think it does. This is how contact happens. Why doesn't it occur? I just told you. Look, if you look where things meet, either they're separated or not. If you choose that they're separated, they don't meet. However, if you say they're not separate, then they can't meet either. There's no substance to their meeting. I didn't say they didn't meet, really. Meaning when two things that have been separate and will be separate are together for an instant.

[17:31]

I think the meaning of meeting is that things that are separate are together. That's the meaning of meeting, isn't it? Things that are separate are together. That's what meeting means, isn't it? But they're not just so identical. No, no, they're not. These are not identical. The organ is not identical to the object. They're two different things. But if they're connected, they can only be connected if they're separate. Correct. Correct. So, what is meeting? Meeting, and I ask you, when there's meeting, is there separation? You say yes. So what is the nature of meeting? It's in nature that it's contradictory. It doesn't really hold up. There's nothing you can get a hold of it. So the basis of this sense of consciousness is, as John was pointing out, there's really nothing to it. But I didn't particularly want to deconstruct the process every step of the way, but I'm

[18:32]

just telling you, you can do that. There's nothing to it, I'm telling you. And this is an example of how you can analyze that there's nothing to any step of this process. It can go flat at any point in the process. So, I mean, I think what my brother is struggling with, and I am too, is some fear that we're just falling into semantics, empty semantics. That's all there is in the world. Right, agreed. Case 37 of the Book of Serenity. All you've got here is karmic consciousness. That's all there is. There's nothing more to it. I'm just teaching you how karmic consciousness arises and causes the sense of us believing that there's actually an inherent reality here. Okay, the question I wanted to ask is, if they don't, they don't meet, great, fine, they don't, what do they do? What do, does the field in the organ do to, to give rise to the, to the vijnana?

[19:35]

They meet. That's what, they have contact, they meet. However, somebody asked me, and I said, but if you look at the meeting, you realize it doesn't happen. Okay. They arise from some, they, the arising of consciousness happens from something which doesn't really, the happening of which has no nature of its own. It's just an illusory process. However, that illusory process is the one that leads to the arising of consciousness, which is also an illusory process. Yes? But it's also, isn't that also part of what actually, um... Just a second, I want to say something, and that is, I'm entertaining questions, and if I do that, my presentation won't happen, and you'll, you'll be thrown into mass confusion, which I'm happy to do, because that's where you are already anyway. But if you want me to present something, you can't ask me questions as I'm presenting it too much, but go ahead. I'd like to ask that we, I get very confused when a lot of people ask questions, because

[20:40]

they're all over the map. Okay, but I'll... Sometimes I don't even understand the question. I'd rather just... But I'll finish the question, which I'm in the middle of, now. Well, um, so meeting between life and material life, for example, plants, makes the plant grow and turn, so something is happening. So, um... And that's, and that's the world of misery, where you, what you, she just described, you had just described some sorrow. Okay, go ahead. So, when I, um, I had it before, so, um, well, I'll ask you later. This is, I'm teaching you the origins of samsara, okay?

[21:40]

I'm showing the origins of the world of self and other, the basis of all attachment and delusion, okay? This is unreality that I'm teaching. That's all we've got, is karmic consciousness, which is unclear, it completely pervades the entire human existence, and there's no reality down at the bottom of it. That's the reality of it, okay? However, there is a systematic presentation, a lawfulness, almost, of the origins of delusion, and this is one of the presentations of those laws. At any point in the way, anybody can bring up that this process lacks inherent existence, and we can show how that's so. Any point in the evolution of it, just because the turning around of it does the same thing, okay? So, I don't know how we got onto that, but that's happened. I was just trying to show you how this consciousness arose, and somehow I got to show you how it didn't. Okay, so now, the next thing that happens is, now you've got this phenomena called consciousness.

[22:53]

It's a phenomena, it's something which appears in the world. It doesn't have objective knowledge of colors and so on, and it comes in five varieties. Awareness of colors and so on, but it doesn't know these things. It does not know them. It's responding to them without objective knowledge. Then somewhere along the way, we have these three transformations of consciousness which are related to this, are, what do you call it, analogs to the same process, and we have the first, I'll put alaya over here, and over here I'll put the Sanskrit. Alaya, we can call it storehouse consciousness, or you can call it a home, or a settling place,

[24:01]

or mooring, or point of attachment, MO, like a moor, like something, like a dock, a dock where you put a boat, and then we have the, what do you call it, vishaya vijnapti. And I wrote the Sanskrit here because vishaya is the same vishaya as this vishaya. In other words, it's the field concept. It's a concept of the field. It's not the vijnana vijnana, it's not the vijnana vishaya, it's not the knowledge of the field, it's the concept of the field. So, concepts of things can be known, because concepts are the same kind of stuff as consciousness, whereas fields are not the same kind of stuff as consciousness.

[25:07]

Fields are materiality, consciousness our mind. That's why consciousness can't ever directly know its fields. However, consciousness is direct, this is a direct experience, unmediated by concepts, but because it's unmediated by concepts, it's unmediated by something which it can know. So, this is the concept of the object, concept of object, or concept of field. This is the storehouse consciousness. Oh, I skipped a step, sorry. I've got to do that early Buddhism thing. The early Buddhism thing is this consciousness evolves now into, it's now called mind consciousness. Mind consciousness is mano-vijnana, and manas, or it's also called mano-dhatu.

[26:19]

This is called mano-vijnana, or just mano. Mano, and then dharma-dhatu. The one presentation is these 12 pairs which give rise to 12 kinds of consciousness. Another presentation is to think of these as these triplets. So, you have a consciousness, a field, and an organ, or a consciousness, its object, and organ. There's five of these which make 15, and then there is the mind one, the mind pair, and each one of the mind ones is called mano-vijnana element, dhatu. Mano-dhatu, or manas-dhatu, mind element, mind consciousness element, mind element,

[27:22]

and dharma element. This is all the objects of this consciousness. They're called things, you know, all the things which the mind can be aware of. Dharma-dhatu. Manas, or mano-dhatu, is that which separates, or acts as the organ, separates the mind consciousness element from the dharma element, which separates the awareness from its objects. So, in the Heart Sutra too, it says, no mind consciousness element, you know. So, this is the next stage. So, this makes 18 dhatus, 18 triplets. Here too, this is also called the mula-vijnana. Mula means root. This is the root, or fundamental vijnana.

[28:26]

Now, in early Buddhism, they didn't mention that, well, they did, but it wasn't so clearly articulated, that all these elements in the dharma realm, dharma-dhatu realm, and they have 64 types, 64 types of objects, that all of these are actually taken from this consciousness. And the way they're taken from this consciousness is by this organ, reflecting something into this consciousness, and making it external. This is the fundamental thing, this is the fundamental exercise to think about, is that you have a consciousness, you have a mind, and within that mind is a basic infinity of concepts,

[29:34]

but by working the infinities with the infinities, a full-scale infinity. The concepts for colors, for example, are limited. The actual sensory impression would give rise to color, are also limited, but much greater than the concepts. However, by playing concepts off against each other, you can have conceptual possibilities which are much greater than the physical. But anyway, basically, there's more or less an infinite amount of concepts available, conceptual possibilities, within the mind. Okay? Within the mind, okay? Now, the mind then has also within it the ability to tell difference among all these concepts, and the mind has the ability to reflect or separate one concept at a time

[30:41]

from the ability to be aware of and the ability to differentiate among. These are all capacities of this mind. The fact that the mind embraces all this is called, we usually use the word chitta for that. The fact that the mind can differentiate among all the different mental factors that are concomitant with it, we call vijnana, to be able to tell the difference. The fact that the mind can reflect itself, to reflect part of itself, back to the part that can be aware of it, is called manas, or mono, or monodoctor here. So, the thing which is aware also, the area of awareness is also the area of the source of the awareness, of the source of the things which we're aware of. So, we select from this area of awareness and project out elements,

[31:46]

and they're projected out as concepts of what's there, not concepts of what's there, concepts, because that's what's there, and then they're known objectively as external realities that are separate from this thing which also arises in the conjunction of this process, which is a sense of self. This process is present in early Buddhism, and if you understand this, it's not such a big step then to the alaya, to the threefold transformation, they've used the word alaya. So, before we take that step, do you understand this level? Can you say the area of awareness is also the... The all-embracing awareness of the mind, okay, it isn't just awareness, it's awareness which embraces everything that's happening, and what's happening is also many, many

[32:51]

mental factors. For example, all kinds of activities like contact, feeling, all kinds of emotions, concentration, and so on, plus one category, one category within this whole field called concepts, which is one category which is basically infinite, that's one of the 64 types, happens to be infinite. All this is going on in association with raw impression of it all. Dharmadhatu is, you see, part of what I have to tell you today, which I don't think I've made clearly before, which somehow dawned on me, is that Dharmadhatu, although it has all these possibilities, all the possibilities for Dharmadhatu are in mind, they're mind objects,

[34:01]

they're objects of mind, these are all the objects of mind, okay, but they're all in the Manodhatu. So, although there's basically 64 basic types and one of them is conception, which is infinite, although we talk about these 64 types, if you look on an Arvidharma chart it has these 64 dharmas under that heading, it's not like they're sitting out there as objects of thought someplace, they're actually all in mind and just one at a time they get said to be external, but actually they're consulting the mind, the mind is being consulted or accessed to produce these things. So the Dharmadhatu is not something separate from mind, and not all 64 are sitting out there in a Dharmadhatu bucket, they're actually just in the mind bucket and then one at a time they're put into the Dharmadhatu for this moment. It's like this moment, what's in the Dharmadhatu? It's whatever Manas, it's whatever the organ

[35:07]

has chosen to reflect from the mind and say is external and the object. So in a given moment, although there are 64 possible types, only one of these things is the object in that moment. Can you give an example? An example would be anger. Anger is one of the elements of Dharmadhatu. Not all of the mental factors arise in every moment, so in a moment where there's anger, I'll take this back, in every moment there is the potential for the full range, so I'll say that, I'll take that back, and in a given moment for whatever reason of dispositions and karmic events the Manas turns to the consciousness and focuses on anger.

[36:07]

There's some pattern by which it does that. Something happens to the organism and there's some pattern in each individual that causes the Manas to go onto anger. There's some pattern there and it's different for different people, right, but in each person there's a particular pattern that's fairly entrenched by which the organ chooses to look at anger, and when it looks at anger, as soon as it looks at it, it doesn't just look at it, it reflects it, it turns towards it and reflects it, and then the place where it scooped it up, that sensitive field, okay, see the sensitive field, actually I should have done it the other way around, sorry, it should be this way, a lot of it should be the Mano

[37:10]

Vidyana Dattu, the mind-consciousness element should be with the organ, it's more like, no it shouldn't be the organ, it's the consciousness, so it should be like this, the Mano Vidyana Dattu should be like this, yeah, and the organ, the Manas is over here, the Mano or Manas is over here, and the the Dharma Dattu is over here, so this, I was just about to say that this sensitivity, this is the most

[38:16]

subtle and sensitive thing, I don't know where we were, who was I talking to, you, this is now aware of something which this has reflected from itself, and when this reflects something from this, it gets put over here as an object, so then this Mano Vidyana Dattu is aware of anger as an object and knows anger, okay, this is the basic process by which the organism knows things as substantial external unknowable objects, this is the basic thing, okay, I haven't yet talked about the rising of self, but this is the basic process of perception. But could you just say that, which Manas or the Mano Vidyana Dattu, the mind element, okay, turns towards the mind-consciousness

[39:16]

element and looks at one of the ... it turns towards the section which is called, in terms of skandhas, it's called the Samyan skandha, the skandha of perception or conception, it turns towards a concept and all the things in the mind can be turned into concepts, even emotions which aren't concepts in themselves but are emotions, can be turned into a concept of the emotion by Manas looking at it and reflecting it as a concept and then the consciousness can know an emotion, emotion is converted into a concept by the organ, so the emotion which is part of the nature of the consciousness at that moment then gets separated out and made into a concept

[40:17]

or made into a concept and separated out, so then the consciousness knows something inside of itself by making it outside of itself, but it really is something inside of itself, but it thinks it's outside of itself because it's known, so the price of knowing is that you feel separate from the consciousness, the consciousness feels separate from its own contents by thinking that its contents are now outside of itself, okay, this is how we know things. I don't understand how this is different from ... I mean this is exactly what I have from my notes about the three transformations of consciousness, I don't understand how this mano vijnana is different from alaya. It's not different, that's what I'm saying, I think this is a stepping stone to that. This is basic Buddhism, which just to warn you that this is not an eight vijnana system, this is a six vijnana, this is a six consciousness system,

[41:20]

and this six consciousness system basically operates the same way as the eight consciousness system and there's some reason why they had eight consciousnesses, but there's nothing more in the eight consciousness system than there is in the six consciousness system. This is the six consciousness right here in the six consciousness system, this is the sixth, but in the eight consciousness system this is called the eighth, this is called the sixth, this is called the the 8th. This is called the 8th. Is that right? No, this is called Alaya, this is called the 6th. So they switch it around a bit, they call this the 6th, they call this the 8th, and they call this the 7th. This is the 8th, this is the 6th, and this is the 7th. So in

[42:21]

the 6th consciousness system, this is the 6th. But basically the same thing is called Alaya in the 8th, in the 8th consciousness system, it's the 8th. And what is the objects of consciousness, the objects of consciousness in the 6th consciousness system is called the 6th consciousness. Or it's called the 3rd transformation of consciousness. I mean it's called the, yeah it's the 3rd transformation of consciousness or it's the concept of the object. This is the concept of the object in the 30 verses. But in early Buddhism it's the Dharmadhatu which is also the concept of object, same thing. But what I'm trying to get across now, which I don't know if I got across before, is that in this realm is the overall awareness and the awareness of difference and also in association with this

[43:23]

are all possible mental factors. This then is what, this organ is what makes these things separate. This organ pulls things out of here and makes them separate so that this can then know these things. This thing can't know itself the same way this can't know these things even though these things are affecting it. These fields are affecting the consciousness all the time, direct experience. Inside the consciousness too, mental factors are affecting the consciousness all the time. Just let me finish. There's always an effect, the nature of the moment of consciousness is always the effect of all the stuff that's happening with it. However it doesn't know these things unless these things are pulled out of itself by this organ and made objects. Just like this is being affected directly right now, you're having these kinds of experiences right now, they are having an effect on us but we don't know them. It would be the same in the mind if we didn't have this ability to pull these

[44:26]

things out and make them objective. So we can know this process but we just, anyway we can know it and we can study it but it creates these problems which we're on the verge of getting into. Yes? I might actually understand what you just said. If mono-vision yana is exactly the same thing as what Vasubandhu calls alaya-vision yana. It is exactly the same thing. It's just that I haven't yet added in all the potential that alaya carries. There is, they renamed this because they wanted to tell you about all this other stuff that's in here, all this other function this has which I haven't told you about yet and as I tell you more about this we naturally overflow into wanting to use the word alaya-vision yana for this. But this is alaya-vision yana. This is the mula, this is the mula-vision yana. This is the fundamental vision yana and this is alaya. This is what becomes alaya.

[45:27]

And this is manas and this is vishaya-vision yapti. This is the concept of the object. This is the first transformation of consciousness. This is the second. This is the third. But in early Buddhism they didn't talk about that. Vasubandhu. Concept of object? This is a lumbana. In early Buddhism the object, when it's considered the object of consciousness is called lumbana. When it's considered the playmate of an organ it's called vishaya. Here, the next level of development of the yoga chart, this will be called vishnapti, concept, vishaya. Now, you see how that works? Yes. You should drill at this thing. If you can drill at this and get this, then the next step will be possible with some fluid. Yes, Misha?

[46:34]

I have this compulsion to try to ground this in modern psychology. Can I ask a question about that? What can you try? I'll tell you if I can handle it now. It seems that dharma-dhatu, or the object of consciousness, reminds me of things like schemata, the way that we have four various objects in the world, and we have subconscious whereby linguistically we label those and have objective knowledge of them. Are they the same? Yes, they're the same. And all this object-relation stuff of psychoanalysis applies here very nicely. There's not much problem. When I read that stuff it helps me understand this stuff and vice versa. Now, can I erase this? Any questions about this now?

[47:39]

So, the thing I want to say one more time is that you have this mind-consciousness element and it never comes up all by itself like just consciousness. It always has with it a whole bunch of mental factors, lots of mental factors, and each moment the mental factors are a little different. And in each being when they arise, even if they're the same list, there's a slightly different pattern relationship among the elements called dispositions. Even if you have two beings which have the same list of things which are arising at that moment, it would be different. So there's all these elements plus the relationship between them arising at a given moment. And that determines the quality of the consciousness. However, it weren't for the fact that one of the things that's going on here is also, which is not on the list by the way, it's not a mental factor.

[48:45]

It's a capacity of consciousness itself. Consciousness has faculties and associated elements. It has these three basic faculties or capacities and it has all these basic factors that it works with. Because you see, manas is never going to be like anger. Okay. Got that? No? Why won't manas ever be like anger or confusion or faith or concentration? Why won't it ever be? In other words, why isn't it? Because it neutrally reflects and because it can't become an object of consciousness. You could have a concept of manas, but that's not manas. And in fact, we don't go around reacting emotionally by having the organ as an object.

[49:52]

Even if you think of the organ, you don't get emotional. It's not an emotional reaction. But when you think of anger, you feel angry. That's why the capacities of consciousness are not the mental factors. The mental factors are what color the consciousness. Can you give an example of the mental factors? I'm not sure if I understand. Mental factors? Anger, lust, those are mental factors. Anger, lust, conscientiousness, laziness, deceitfulness. These things here. All those things. Confusion, attachment, aversion, malice, hypocrisy, envy, anger, doubt, shamefulness, violence, remorselessness, deceitfulness, stupidity, lack of confidence, sluggishness, indolence. These are mental factors. And wisdom in their positive ones as well. Yeah. These are mental factors that arise with consciousness. And they always have an effect whether they're known or not.

[50:56]

So there's all these things happening, but one of them gets reflected in a given moment. That one gets put out, and that one the consciousness knows. So in a given moment, consciousness knows one of its mental factors. The other ones are there affecting it though. So you can have awareness of anger, but not have any stupidity or deceitfulness. And that would be a different kind of experience than awareness of anger with stupidity and wisdom. So they're different. In the next moment, you can have the anger there and be aware of the hypocrisy. Or not have the anger there and have lust there and be aware of hypocrisy. So all these possibilities there. But basically, one thing is being selected from the available pool of mental factors to be projected out, and therefore it's known. And there's a wide variety of things that can be projected out.

[51:58]

And all the things that can be projected out, called the potential, all can be projected out into this realm. But they're not out there all the time. They're usually quietly sitting in the consciousness, unprojected, but influencing. Yes? Once you describe what you were calling the faculties of contact, attention, feeling, perception, and volition. No, no. The faculties of consciousness. The faculties are that it can embrace all that's going on in the psychic. That it can differentiate among all the elements. And that it can separate part of itself from itself. In other words, it can reflect upon itself. Those are the capacities of consciousness. Then, it has mental factors which always arise with it, which come in these 64 varieties. One of which is extremely important in creating a sense of self, and that's concept.

[53:02]

Because concepts are what get projected externally, and create knowledge. And this event is pivotal in this next thing. That's the occasion for the birth of self, this reflection. In making something external, you have to make something external in order to have a self. Because by having something outside, the self goes right up to it and stops. Or that thing comes up and stops, and the self starts. External means... Now, external doesn't mean that, but the self is born from the sense of something outside the mind. That's the birth of the self. That's the birth of individuality, of identity. There's an identity here, separate from the other. And also, a kind of... well, I'll get into that later. The process of creating objective knowledge... People want to know, what's the difference between these four afflictions?

[54:05]

These four afflictions are directly derivative, also, from the wonderful thing of creating objective knowledge. When the sense of self arises, these four afflictions arise. Other afflictions could arise, but these four are particularly related to that which gives rise to the self, namely, the ability to reflect. One of them being pride. You're proud of this thing which arose in conjunction with this breakthrough in human evolution. I mean, it is... Well, when I say, it is a cognitively significant event that living beings on this planet came up with objective knowledge. And the sense of self was born with that event. That thing, that sense, is proud to be born at the same time. It's kind of like, when your hometown team wins a World Series, you feel proud.

[55:06]

When you're associated with beings that have created a breakthrough, such that, as far as we know, in no universe, there's no other place that reflectively makes knowledge objective, other than in these beings on this planet. And the self is born with that, and then it's proud to be associated with this. It knows what it's... It gets associated with the knowing of this object, and it says, I did it. It's proud. That's how pride of self naturally happens, because the self is born at the same time as this breakthrough in evolution. And this making, it's the way that... You could say, we are the way that the universe... As far as we know, we are the main way the universe can know itself objectively. Aside from this, I know of no signs of anywhere in the universe where there's some way that the universe knows itself. Except in us. Now, when I talk like that, don't I sound proud of us?

[56:10]

That's pride. Pride in what? In the process, but also that I am associated with such a process. In other words, human beings are... I don't want to say inevitably, but we're tanned very strongly towards pride in the self because of being associated with this. And I'll talk to you about how the other four come out of this later. Yes? I have two quick things. One, can you just repeat the three faculties of consciousness, the three things that it can do? And can you also... I think I understand that... Can we do that first? One question at a time. The three faculties are... and they have names, okay? The first faculty... generally they use these names. The first faculty is the fact that consciousness is the total cognition or impression, raw impression of all that's happening in the psyche at a moment. And that's called citta,

[57:10]

the all-embracing impression of all that's going on, including all the functions of consciousness and all the mental factors. And all the unknown sense consciousnesses are also embraced by this. And subconscious life force, all that is embraced by consciousness. That's the citta element. The next element, next function, is the ability to discriminate, to tell difference, to know difference. That's vijnana. And the third capacity is that mind can reflect itself, and self-reflection of the mind is in fact what creates the self. Those are the three. And then there's zillions, all these zillions of mental factors, each one of which can play into this, can be the queen for a day, so to speak,

[58:12]

the queen for a moment, gets to be the thing that the mind reflects and knows, gets to be the known thing for being at that moment. Those are the three capacities. And what's that one called? Well, we call it manas, the mind organ. The mind organ makes possible the concept of the object. And alaya is the start, the basis, that the organ uses to get its material to make objects. The mirror's not empty. The mirror all flashes back unconscious, on some of these mental factors in consciousness. The one thing it can't reflect is consciousness itself. What is the second one called? What is the second one called in Sanskrit? Vijnana. Oh. Vijnana, in other words, the knowledge of difference. In other words, the mind has the ability to discriminate. You can tell the difference between being light-born,

[59:16]

being born of difference. One of the basic facilities or capacities of consciousness is to know the difference from which it was born, and then to be able to make that discrimination. Because it's born of difference, it can discriminate. However, there can be discrimination without objective knowledge. In order to have objective knowledge, you have to reflect that discrimination. You have to take one of the elements that's being discriminated and put it outside, separate from the consciousness, and then you have not just discrimination, but knowledge of discriminating something external, and in conjunction with that, the self is born, and then these afflictions come up. And the alaya thing is exactly the same process, it's just that by using the term alaya, a whole bunch of other material comes in about explaining transmigration, birth and death,

[60:17]

sense of continuity, the relationship between consciousness and warmth, physical warmth, and life force continuing, etc., etc. And another reason for using the word alaya, although the same thing happens with monadaptu, is that not only... So, the sense of self is born from this function of consciousness. These are the three functions of consciousness. This is not exactly a function, this is a result of function. This is two functions here. Difference and all-embracing. This is separation. And by combining the resource, all-embracingness, with the separation, you get an object. This is a transformation, not a function. In conjunction with this, the sense of self is born. In that sense, the major cause of this sense of self is this manas. So manas is called, to use the Sanskrit, kṛṣṭa manas,

[61:19]

which is related to the word klesha, which means stain or defilement. It gets this bad name because this wonderful function of creating objective knowledge also creates the sense of a separate self. So it's a dirty manas, dirty organ. Even though it made possible this cosmically significant event that we get to participate in and be proud of and all that. Once this happens, this sense of self born here, it lays back down in this consciousness. And to emphasize that it lays back down, and in that sense also, that alaya is the effect of the self lying down in it. It's called alaya, renamed. This is renamed alaya because the self mainly hooks into and uses as its objective support

[62:22]

and basis for its egoistic existence, uses this as its basic support. There's another reason for renaming this, to emphasize the process of bondage. To point out that the sense of self is born here and it hangs on to this. This is what it hangs on to. Because it has no nature in itself to hang on to. I'll say it again and again, to myself, out loud. The self has no self to hang on to. It wants to hang on to something. It hangs on to alaya, basically. Poor alaya then, has this self hanging on to it. So alaya then becomes, you know, the bad guy now too. And alaya basically now becomes the carrier of this attachment.

[63:25]

It's something to attach to and now what's got a hold of it? The self. Now the self's got proof of its continuing existence because alaya is dependable. Because when it's active, it's there. And when the mind shuts down, it's even there. So self can go through the deepest, deepest, deepest suppression of consciousness. Because it holds on to alaya. And then as soon as alaya recovers and can project things out again, the self is up and running. So it's like this virus that can go through anything because it hangs on to this deep, deep thing down there. That's why I think there is something ingenious about developing this alaya concept this way. Now, how is it now? It's time to stop, right? Do you understand better now? No. No? Yes.

[64:26]

Yes. Well? Do you understand it worse? Well, you know, I've seen that. Like three times you've almost said something to me. And then right in the middle when almost it seems to me you're going to actually finish, you've cut off to another event. And then I got lost. So for example, here, the last thing you said about three fabulous things, I wrote it down, I understood. Then you started talking about how you added this other word, citta, right? So then citta and this mano vijnana, right? And then all of a sudden, so then number three, you assign a word, you know, mano, and then my organ. And then you were going to, then all of a sudden this first and second point was combined in some way. It did.

[65:26]

I mean, and then... I'm sure it did. Yeah. But then... You just said they were within mano vijnana. Yeah, but then I lost it then. But then I didn't understand any more what the differences were that you were going to make once you did. You didn't hear the three functions of consciousness? I thought I already did. What are the three functions of consciousness? You're not going to tell? Well, I know the three functions of consciousness from the thing I'm memorizing. Yes, I know. What are the three functions of consciousness? The resolving, the... No, those are the three transformations of consciousness. Yeah, the transformations of ignorance. So you know those transformations, okay. What are the three functions that I just told you about? That's what you're confused about, right? Oh, all of this, all of the breaking away. Yeah. And the deflecting. Yes. And the object. Discrimination. Discrimination. Those are the three transformations that was mentioned. So it's the same except for difference? It's the same except for difference, right. The three functions are a little different from the three transformations. The three transformations are...

[66:26]

What time is this? The three transformations are alaya, which is the same as this, but this has within it basically two functions. It's all embracing and discriminating. Oh, that's a real thing? Yeah. Okay. And this is a third function of consciousness, where it can act as an organ, which is similar to the three transformations, except the three transformations, we're not talking about the all-embracing side and the discriminating side. We're talking about alaya, which is a discriminating consciousness, but we're emphasizing the fact of alaya being the basis. The orientation of the three transformations is not going to be the basis of the creation of the sense of self and other. So because of emphasizing self and other, we're talking about these three transformations as if... I think he's trying to make a more direct access

[67:28]

to the creation of the fundamental human delusion, and that is the actually existent self and the actually existent other. That's what the three transformations are about. Is it nine o'clock? Are you going to talk again about alaya next time? Alaya? Yeah, I'm going to talk about alaya a lot. Because now the question comes, well, why? I mean, for me, again, what is alaya exactly so that it can be such a base for the self? So that's... Next time. Yeah. And I need some clarification about what self-love is because I don't understand what he means by that. When you kept saying pride, did you mean self-esteem?

[68:33]

I think self-pride is self-esteem. I think the pride has to do with being associated with this... which is a great thing. It's an immensely important thing in the history of the universe, I think, that human beings have done this. We can actually cause a lot of trouble now because of this. People start blowing up stars and stuff because of this objective knowledge. We can pollute this planet because of objective knowledge. It's very important that this be used correctly. And we're proud, in some sense rightfully proud, but also this pride backfires on us. And the love is a little different origin. I think the love has to do with the fact of... when you look at how this happens in the nature of self, you realize that actually it's a precious, limited, unique thing. And one of the aspects of love is that you love individuals,

[69:36]

you love individuality, you love particulars, you love individual little flowers and individual mountains and individual oceans, individual waves and individual rocks. That's part of what you love. And the self is a precious, very limited thing and has very definite boundaries, and you love it. But it's an affliction because that love makes you want to hold it. And it can't be held. So you cause this great disturbance in the system by this process. But there's a strong tendency, by the whole setup of the nature of the self, that there would be love for it. That it would be appreciated because it is a very precious thing. I mean, if anything is precious, that's it. So that's a love thing. And each one of these... if you look at the nature of the way it was created and the wonder of the things associated with that creation, then the self-view and the self-ignorance or confusion

[70:39]

will also come out of that. We can talk about that more later. Both how it would originate and rise in affliction. And again, I feel, you know, that you are really listening and I feel that you're being actually very nicely re-named, that you're evolving through this discussion. And this evolution can be, unless you're quite upright, and present, if you participate in this, and actually just don't let this stuff wash by you, you will become, either you could say re-oriented or disoriented. When Dharma is actually working on you, this turns you. And that's why you have to be upright in the process of the discussion. And if you can be upright in the process of this discussion, you can be upright in the process of confronting what this discussion is talking about.

[71:42]

In other words, you can be upright in the face of alaya. It's our un-uprightness, it's our leanings and excitement and enchantment with this alaya that causes us to not be able to see reality. So, the exercise of trying to stay alert and upright in the middle of this discussion can be applied when this discussion isn't going on because another discussion will start as soon as this one stops. And that will be the very process which we're talking about here. So, if we can be upright with this process, this process, alaya will lose its obscuring quality and will turn into, you know, a revelatory process. The key thing is, through these discussions and through, as you start moving into the experience that these discussions are referring to, if you're disturbed, I mean, if they're disturbing and challenging, that's good.

[72:43]

I mean, it's good that you feel that and then you have a way to feel, well, I'm a little off, I'm a little disoriented, I'm having trouble being upright with this. So, in one sense, I feel very happy to hear that this stuff is moving us. In the other hand, I say, but, you know, what is it, regain your, you know, presence of mind, sister and brother. Keep that going through this process and that will be great. But I think you are letting this stuff have an effect on you and it does change you and make you feel, you know, that you're losing your footing a little bit and that, you know, that means you're listening, you're letting it in. Because it is a different, it's not so much that this is a different way of seeing things, but rather you are looking at things differently.

[73:44]

You're changing your perspective by listening to this material. So, you know, that's good. If I felt that I was up to being disoriented and losing my footing, I think I could deal with that. But what I'm feeling is really just huge amounts of discomfort and not being able to understand what's being said. Do you have any recommendations for how to deal with that? Like, I want to stop the training, I do want to stop the training. I guess I would suggest that you, that you say that you'd like to stop the training. Raise your hand and say, I'd like to stop the training. And we'll stop the training. And then when you're ready, we'll start the training again. So maybe if you're quiet for a little while, maybe you can get your feet back on the ground. And then there'll be another, and then you'll have another onslaught. I mean, the thing that Buddha said,

[74:46]

that alaya overwhelms people. This material is an onslaught. You are being overwhelmed. And if you feel it now, well, good. And if you think stopping for a little while and being quiet can give you a sense of getting your composure back, we'll stop and get your composure back. And then we'll do it again. If you feel overwhelmed again, what is it that's overwhelming you? You might be able to catch it and say, Oh, there it is. I know what's overwhelming me. I don't cause me to be overwhelmed. I'm not able to... So when you can't follow what I'm saying, what is that that's overwhelming you? What is that? What overwhelms you? Inadequacy. What is inadequacy? You. I'm feeling I'm left out and separated. You're feeling left... You're separated, right? You're feeling separated.

[75:47]

You're a self that's separated. You feel that. Uh-huh. And what is that? Is that the self? Could that be the self that you've discovered? And could it be that you're starting to feel how the self is harassed, assaulted by the other? I'm feeling that, yes. Okay. That's what you're supposed to be feeling. That's what you're supposed to be feeling. That's what the Buddha says is going on. That's suffering. Is you an isolated, left-out thing? You're left out. Is being assaulted by what leaves you out. That's what this is talking about. You are just... You're having a direct experience of what this is saying happens to people. This is called affliction. Affliction. Because you have a self-view

[76:51]

that you are over there, that you have some understanding, and there's another understanding which is not yours, which you can't get a hold of. And it's assaulting you to be left out. Okay? Now, if you... So, this example of somebody who felt left out said, I feel like I'm left out, so we stopped for you. And the one who feels left out, ironically, is having a direct experience of what we're talking about. That's why we're willing to stop, because the one who wants us to stop is somebody who's overwhelmed. There's a self that's being overwhelmed, often, who wants to stop the show. This is about selves being overwhelmed. This is about people being overwhelmed by alaya. So you're actually having an experience of this process, and it is painful, and so on and so forth, but there you...

[77:52]

I asked you last week, try to get a sense of these afflictions. If you have a sense of these afflictions, there you are. You're being successful in the study of self. The study of self is not necessarily pleasant, because self is not a pleasant thing to have. It's because self is harassed by everything that isn't it. And you have an experience of that, and you don't like it. Well, I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm just saying try to not be upright and have some confidence that you're actually having an experience of the suffering that occurs to having self-clean, to being an individual who is left out of the process. That's how I would set you to deal with this. Okay? So now I want you to be able to go to bed. I don't know if you can sleep now. Try not to let these demons bother you. Okay, so you guys now ask for help

[78:54]

from the Buddhas and ancestors to help us get through this night. Our harassed little selves, they may not survive. But if you've got one that's being harassed, you're getting in touch with the study of the self. You've maybe located yourself. You're doing well. It's not so vague anymore where you are and where you aren't. Okay, so... I take refuge in Buddha. I take refuge in Dharma. I take refuge in Sangha. I take refuge in Buddha as the perfect teacher. I take refuge in Dharma as the perfect teaching. I take refuge in Sangha

[79:56]

as the perfect light. Now I have completely taken refuge in Buddha. Now I have completely taken refuge in Dharma. Now I have completely taken refuge in Sangha.

[80:19]

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