So I'd like to continue to talk about the study of dependent co-arising, the Buddha's central teaching. And in doing so, I may talk in terms of a process or a path, but the danger of talking about a path is that it sounds like we're going someplace, or doing something, paradoxical in this case, though, because the path is a path of being yourself. So it's hard to talk about it without maybe leading you to think I'm talking about you doing something. I'm very much talking about not moving as the fundamental feeling of this process is not to

[01:06]

move. There are different kinds of dependent co-arising in the sense that dependent co-arising produces different kinds of things, or different things arise through dependent co-origination. The universe dependently co-arises, the whole universe, and every being in the universe dependently co-arises with every other being in the universe, but the way each one arises produces their difference. So in a sense, dependent co-arising is not a thing separate

[02:08]

from the fact of things appearing and disappearing. But in particular, I want to talk about, rather than get into the dependent co-arising of the history of the world, or planets, or ecosystems, I want to talk about the dependent co-arising of misery as one kind of thing that dependently co-arises, and the dependent co-arising of liberation from misery. I want to talk about the dependent co-arising of what we call cyclic birth and death. Cyclic means over and [...] over, basically forever, from beginningless time to beginningless, endless end. And also the dependent co-arising of freedom from that process.

[03:17]

A basic ingredient in the dependent co-arising of cyclic birth and death is ignorance. In other words, ignoring. Ignoring something, or everything, or somewhere in between. Ignoring your experience, ignoring your pain, ignoring your anxiety. Flying away from where you are. Flying away from being yourself. Flying away from being yourself also can be interpreted as making more of yourself than it actually justifies. Another way to fly away from yourself is to make yourself into more than you are. Like, if you're a hundred-pounder, you might fly away from that

[04:41]

and think you're a hundred-ten-pounder. Or if you're a hundred-fifty-pounder, you might fly away from that and think you're a hundred-twenty-pounder. To make more or less of yourself is basically the basic flight. The basic ignorance is that as soon as a self is born, as soon as we're born as individuals, we make more, a little bit more, or a lot more, or a lot less out of ourself than we are. We take ourselves too seriously or not seriously enough, which is basic. But not seriously enough is just another way to take yourself too seriously. And that sets up this process of psychic disturbance and dislocation, exile, anxiety. And the anxiety is very difficult

[05:48]

for us to stand, so we're driven from the anxiety to fear. And then we're afraid we'll basically do whatever somebody might tell us or imply or suggest or even hint at. Or maybe they don't even hint at it, but we think they're hinting at it. And maybe if we do certain things that we're afraid of, it won't happen. And then if we act in that way to avoid some fearful thing, then the anxiety is increased, which even drives us to more fear. And we're more easily manipulated by, not necessarily by other people, but by what we think they want us to do in order to avoid what we fear might happen, which causes more anxiety, which causes it less, more challenging for us to be present, and so on and so forth. And it gets so bad that we have to deny everything that's going on there. And so the minute we see anybody else that's doing anything that reminds us about that,

[06:49]

then we will have trouble letting it be that way. As a matter of fact, since they reminded us of something so painful and we weren't aware of it before they did it, we'll go to great lengths to get them to stop that, even if it would hurt them. So then that, of course, you know, this is the pentachorite of misery. Do I need to go into more detail on that for now? Does everybody understand that sort of? Is it clear? I mean, is the summit clear? Well, so that's the pentachorite of misery in very short form. A couple other things I would like to add into that, though, even though you don't seem to need it, is that in this situation, one way to typify our behavior is that we, like I say, we make more

[08:02]

out of ourselves. We make a little bit more out of ourselves than is appropriate. So we actually, one of the things we think about ourselves, or one of the ways we think about ourselves is we actually think that we can do things by ourselves, like we think we can raise our arm up by ourselves or put it down by ourselves, or we can talk on our own, or that we could practice Buddhism, that we personally could just go ahead and practice Buddhism, or that we could confirm things, and affirm them and deny them and stuff like that. We think we can do that on our own. This is one of the kind of basic things that we feel capable of, only when we ignore what we really are and make a little bit more out of ourselves than we really are. We kind of make ourselves into little gods and goddesses. And this way of, for example, practicing Buddhism or driving a car,

[09:13]

this basic approach is what we call delusion. This is the basic definition of delusion, that you can practice various things and confirm various things while carrying a self, or like, while carrying a self, under the burden of a self, you think you can do things, you can practice. This is the kind of basic definition of delusion. It's quotes delusion. It's not really delusion, because there is no such thing. So since there's no such thing, it wouldn't be right to say, well, that's delusion. But if you want to know how delusion, the illusion of delusion appears, that's how it appears. That's the basic way it appears, is that we think we can do things on our own. And that's also the basic definition of what we call karma. Karma means action, but it doesn't just mean action like the action of the universe. It's not the action of dependent co-arising. It's not dependent co-arisen action. It's action that I do, or you do.

[10:21]

Dependent co-arisen action, if you see action dependent co-arising, that's not something you do independently, that's something you do with everyone. But when you think that you can act on your own, that's called karma. So then, of course, in that way you think, or you understand, or you believe, or the way you see it is that you can actually think on your own too. Like you can go ahead and like, I can think of a woman, or I can think, you know, walking out the door. I can think of a man. I can think things. I myself can go ahead and think things. I can dream things up. I can dream things up. I can dream things up. I can imagine things. Like I have the power to imagine, all by myself, I can just go ahead and imagine things. In fact, imagination does happen here all the time, and I do dream all the time, but I don't do it all by myself, really. To think that I do, that's delusion. And I also can imagine that, not only can I imagine I do things on my own,

[11:28]

by my own personal power of imagination, but I also, whether I admit it or not, and a lot of people don't admit that they do this, but they attribute reality to their imagination. So they think they can imagine things on their own, and also that what they imagine is true. Or that what they imagine is false, but basically they're turning the dial, true, false, true, false. They can decide. That's the goddess, God thing. You can decide, this is true, this is false. You can talk to other people if you want to, and you can say, no, Stuart, do you agree? And he says, no, I don't. And then I say, Gail, do you agree? And she says, well, yes, I do. And do you agree? Yes, I do. Okay, true. Or you can say, no, I need higher percentages. But you can decide what kind of agreement you need in order to, basically you're in charge of the universe. So that's taking your talk too seriously, and that's delusion. So then, now, how to study dependent co-arising when you basically don't see it that way?

[12:43]

So we're living, let's say that basically we're subject to some extent, or to a great extent, to this way of seeing things, that we think we can do things independently. So we are deluded, to some extent. Let's say we even agree. Okay, I agree, I do think I can do things. So I guess, according to your definition, which isn't my definition, according to your boss's definition, I guess I'm deluded then. Okay, fine. Well, how would a deluded person practice then? Well, most people start out practicing in a deluded way, because when you hear about practice, how are you going to do it? Well, you're going to do it, if we talk about it. Right away start out practicing not in a deluded way. It's going to be hard to not do it that way, because that's the way you see things. But just right off, even though it might be different, even though

[13:47]

it's kind of like, what do you call it, in some sense logically inconsistent, if I'm talking to deluded people, or if I'm a deluded person, to even talk about a non-deluded approach to practice, still I will mention it right off, the non-deluded approach, and then I'll discuss how you won't be able to do it that way. The non-deluded approach is for when all things come forward and practice you, or when all things come forward and practice one self, and they come forward and practice one self all over the place, and when all things come forward and practice one self, all things come forward and practice one self, all things come forward and practice one self, that's the world of enlightenment, or that is enlightenment. But that's not in quotes, that's actually happening. So if you hear about that practice, you may or

[14:52]

may not say, well, it sounds strange, but I probably should try it. That's what the ancient Zen master said, I'll try it. But of course, if you try it, then you say, I'll try it. So what you're doing is you're hearing about a really great practice and then you're going to do it. So actually you're back over just in the realm of delusion again. So in fact, I think we need to admit that our first approach to practice will be in whatever realm we're in. If we're already in the enlightened realm, fine, but if we're not, then we're not. If we're not, then let's admit it, even though I'm not sure, let's consider the possibility. Now, in order to turn this process around, and even while still being deluded to turn the process around. Anyway, so one, two, three, let's try to turn the process around.

[16:12]

Okay? And let's turn around now and start turning the thing around and start looking back at ourselves. Let's start studying ourselves, even though we're still like, I'm going to study myself now, and it's a deluded approach to some extent. Let's try as deluded persons, look at ourselves. Look at your body, look at your feelings, look at your opinions, look at your emotions, look at your temperature. Just check yourself out. Okay? And again, the approach here is like, don't go anyplace to do this. Don't start looking around exactly, just don't move. If you don't move, quite naturally your opinions will start arising, right? Your opinions will start arising, like your opinions will come up like, maybe I should move. Maybe I've sat here long enough. Maybe this is stupid.

[17:17]

Maybe this is great. Maybe I'm finally doing the right thing. Maybe this is painful. Maybe this is too painful. Maybe I'm hurting myself. Maybe I'm scared. Maybe I'm anxious. Actually, it feels like I am anxious, and it feels like I am in pain. It feels like I'm getting angry at these Japanese people, who are transmitting this practice. And, well, they said not to move, so I'm not going to get up and look for one to beat up. I'm just going to stay here for a while, and notice how angry I'm getting about this whole situation. I'm getting angry that somebody told me about sitting still. I'm getting angry at myself for sitting still. I'm angry, and I think there's a whole bunch of excuses for being angry. Oh, and I'm scared, and so on. And the more you sit still, the more you get out in these waves. They don't necessarily get bigger, and [...]

[18:19]

bigger. They just get bigger, and then they get bigger, and then they get bigger, and they get bigger. Or they pulse. They go, ouch, ouch, ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch. Hey, a break. Ouch, ouch. Anxiety, fear, hatred. It's a mess. It's called inner chaos. Inner chaos is produced by taking yourself too seriously, and taking yourself too seriously has all these karmic consequences. I mean, taking yourself seriously, you did karma, like you beat people up, or push people in boxes, and all this bad stuff you did to people to try to get them to be other ways, then it starts welling up in you while you're sitting. Because you're not moving away from the stuff, you start opening up in your karmas. The results of the things you've done starts revealing itself to you, and the waters get rough. Plus also, as I said, you're still

[19:23]

probably taking this approach of, I'm doing this, or I'm sitting still, or I'm going to get out of here, or I'm going to stay here, which causes much more waves, and turns the water into poison. And you start to see how, and you start to notice that not only is this stuff difficult to deal with, but this attitude is also making it worse. This is part of what you learn. However, if you continue this practice of not moving, and just being upright and dignified about the whole thing, there will be an impulse to try to fix it, like, can somebody please freeze this water, or could we have a steam roller in and level it, or can basically let's get out of here, all that stuff. You'll notice that that stuff makes it worse, and also maybe you keep getting information and hints from the teachers of the practice that you sort of have just signed up for. The teachers keep maybe saying, don't do anything about this. Don't try to fix it. Don't try to, you know, make

[20:28]

the ocean go flat. Don't try to jazz it up. Don't try to make it not poisonous. As a matter of fact, notice how the fact that you have some fixed views about this is making it that way. Check it out, check it out, check it out, and keep walking through this stuff. And you're walking to the center, but you don't know where it is. And of course it's not someplace other than here, so you're very close, and yet you're walking through stuff. The reason why you're walking through stuff is because the stuff that's happening is from the past walking you did, so it seems like moving because you moved before. So in a sense, you're walking through this stuff to the center of your being. You don't know how long this is going to be, but it's rough. It's difficult. It's a difficult walk. It's difficult to be upright, and even if you're upright, you're being given

[21:29]

difficult temptations. Things are happening which are kind of saying, now don't you want to fix this? Don't you think it would be better if you weren't here? And so on. Don't you think this is true, what's happening? Don't you think this is false? And being upright means you don't fall for any of that. It means you don't, when they say, don't you think this is true? You don't say, no. When they say, don't you think this is false? You don't say, no. You also don't say, yeah. You don't say anything. There's enough noise already. There's plenty of noise all around you. You don't have to say anything. There's plenty happening. And of course, what's happening seems like you talking to some extent, but basically your practice is just to sort of walk through all this noise and all this turbulence.

[22:29]

Not any particular place, just walk through. You may understand that you're walking to your true nature, but you're basically just walking through. And you're carrying this self all the time, this self on top, self, and keep doing it. I'm doing it, I'm doing it, I'm doing it. As you go through this, as part of being upright, you have to develop patience. Otherwise, when you get a real noxious splash of yuck in the face, you're going to have trouble not reacting and fighting back or finding somebody to blame for it. So you have to develop patience, and patience means not just gritting your teeth, but it means going to finding the center, trying to be very much in the present of this noxious onslaught.

[23:34]

Or pleasant onslaught. You have to be patient with pleasant things too. But if you can be patient with pleasant things, it doesn't mean you can be patient with unpleasant things. If you can be patient with unpleasant things, you can be patient with pleasant things. So basically you work on unpleasant things with the patience. And if you can practice patience and get settled in the middle of this stuff you're walking through, and be still and quiet and not mess around with it, but mostly just keep trying to find the unmoving presence and non-manipulative way to be with what's happening, gradually you start to actually want, you actually kind of want to drop this burden that you're carrying, which has caused, and you start to see also that this burden you're carrying has caused all this mess. And not only has it caused it, but it also makes it harder to

[24:40]

negotiate the space too, and you kind of wish you could drop it. But again, trying to drop it is not being upright, it's not being still. So without moving in a kind of unmoving, ungreedy way, you wish to let go of this body and mind and just drop them off. You want to drop them, because you can see that if you dropped them, and wanting to drop it means not, I want to drop this so this thing will all go calm, because that wouldn't really be like wanting to drop it. Wanting to drop it means, I'd be willing to drop this even if I don't give anything for it. I actually want to drop even trying to get something out of this, because wanting to get something out of this is what I want to drop. I want to drop trying to get something out of my life. I want to stop being concerned with me getting something out of this. That's what I want to drop. I actually would like to drop it, if it dropped it would be fine with me. And you keep walking.

[25:46]

Meantime you're a little bit learning, even though you're still carrying the self, you're learning a little bit about dependent co-arising, but you're learning about dependent co-arising and misery. Getting more and more lessons about how misery, how turbulence, how attachment causes problems. You get more and more information about it, getting more and more knowledgeable about it. At the same time while you're getting more knowledgeable about it, also your interest or willingness to drop the cause is getting stronger. The knowledge is increasing and the willingness to drop the cause of the problem is increasing. And as your willingness to drop your self-attachment increases, your willingness to study increases. And you gradually start spending less and less time fighting the turbulence and the noxiousness. Spend less time fighting it, in other words be more upright, and

[26:52]

more time actually devoting your attention to study rather than worrying about the future or past. Which in other words, your uprightness becomes more effective. You're also willing to drop past and future. So you're willing to study just to study, rather than study in order to get something. So little by little you start to realize this mind of renunciation, this mind of willing to drop. And your uprightness becomes more and more clear, your study becomes more and more effective, you understand dependent co-arising better and better, until finally you realize something. Finally you realize dependent co-arising. You become a dependent co-arising thing. You stop turning away from what you've been turning away from for a long time. You don't turn towards it either. You just become dependent co-arising. In other words, you understand dependent

[28:00]

co-arising, but it isn't like you're out here understanding dependent co-arising over there. You understand it means you realize it. Which also means dependent co-arising realizes you. And then you switch to this other practice which we talked about earlier, when everything coming forward realizes you. Then you switch from your practicing to everything's practicing you. And you switch from you thinking things to everything thinks you. The whole world thinks you. Or you think as the world. And you practice as the world practices. And then the delusion is dropped, and the enlightenment is born, and dependent co-arising is manifested. And this is the dependent co-arising of awakening. And then from there, you walk out from there,

[29:02]

and you go to work. Interacting with people, being a person again, having an identity, even being deluded maybe, if it's your heart. And at that place where you realize dependent co-arising, this is what we call the Bodhisattva's mind which has no abode. It's not like you're there with just a mind, but rather all things come forward and a mind is created. So there is a mind there, but it has no abode. It's signless. This is what we call the signless site of awakening. So that's also why from this place you can accommodate all circumstances

[30:06]

appropriately, not just appropriately. You adjust for certain things because you have no fixed agenda about how you would help people. And the vow to help people is what gets you to walk through this crap for such a long time, to get to the place where you really will be able to help. And people wonder, well, can't you do any help on the way in? The answer is yes, you can definitely. It is helpful to people to see you at the beginning of your turnaround. When you first start looking at yourself at the beginning, that encourages people. People love to see people starting because a lot of people haven't started. It's very encouraging if someone else sticks their toes in a little bit. So you're just a beginner and you're still totally, you know, deluded and fixed opinions. You haven't even got into facing your problems yet, but you're contemplating

[31:12]

the possibility of facing some of your problems. And some people don't even want to do that yet, but the fact that you're willing to do it and they see you do it, it's very encouraging. And to get into a little further and actually start to tangle with some of this crap, that encourages people too. They say, oh God, what's horrible, but he's surviving, you know, he's still there. And as you go deeper and deeper, at whatever stage you're at, it encourages people behind you and it encourages people ahead of you that you're coming. So all the way through, on the way into the place where you become most effective, at every stage of the way, it's helpful to people. And the things you do are helpful, but still you're creating more trouble until you get to that place. You're still causing yourself, you know, there's some trouble, so you can't really stop because you're still a pest to the universe until you drop this taking yourself too seriously. And you kind of know that, so it's

[32:17]

really difficult and you think you're backing out now and then, but you know, logically speaking, you can see that it's not going to work to turn around. You're causing problems now and if you go backwards, you're just going to make more trouble. And going forward, you'll also make more trouble, but you'll gradually make less and less trouble until you're not troublesome at all. But actually, I would say, another thing I want to say is that as you're going through this stuff, if as you're going along, in your uprightness, you will notice that you make mistakes, many, many, many, many mistakes. Every time you notice you make a mistake, that's a little enlightenment. And if you notice your mistakes and look at them, that makes you harmless through this process. If you don't notice your mistakes, you're still harmful to yourself and others. Before you start this process, of course, you're non-stop, you know, non-stop, ceaseless damage.

[33:18]

Because you're making mistakes and hurting people and yourself, but you don't even notice it. When you start noticing your mistakes, you've entered the process. And noticing your mistakes is upright. You're upright when you notice your mistakes. And noticing your mistakes and examining their causes and conditions is studying dependent co-arising of your error. And that protects you in other deeds. So when you don't notice your mistakes, you're again dangerous. When you do notice your mistakes and study them, you're safe and others are safe. So it doesn't mean you don't make mistakes and continue to cause problems as you go in, but if you notice them, that protects the process. When you get to the center, not only are you harmless, but you can actually start doing a lot of good things besides showing people that they can survive mistakes. Okay, so that's basically it. And now, Martina has a question.

[34:23]

Who determines who is the final judge? You! Yeah. Although I may have something to say, you're the one who's really the final judge. Who determines if it's a mistake? Who catches the mistakes? It's you. I may say, Martina, you made a mistake, but then you can decide what you think of it. It's when you think it's a mistake that it counts, because you have to feel in yourself that's a mistake. That's off the point. And when you feel it's a mistake, that means you feel uprightness. So as soon as you know the mistake, uprightness is alive. You're balanced. If you think it's a mistake, you're not fooling yourself. Never. If you think you're not making a mistake, you are almost always fooling yourself. Because how can you possibly think that you don't make a mistake without fooling yourself?

[35:24]

Because that's delusion, false delusion. Buddhism is not about walking the path and thinking, I'm not making a mistake. You know, I'm not making a mistake today. I'm not making a mistake. This is right, and this is right, and this is right too. That's not Buddhism. Buddhism is about, they're doing well. They're [...] virtuous. They're great. Yay, yay, yay. I'm making mistakes. I'm making mistakes. I'm making mistakes. You're not just saying it, but noticing it. Notice your mistakes. Notice others' virtues. That's Buddhism. If you don't notice any mistakes, you haven't started. If you notice other people's virtues, you've started. Well, maybe if you can just talk a little more. If you're exercising a non-discriminating mind, how do you distinguish between,

[36:28]

or how do you do that and still see virtue versus mistake? How do you see virtue if you're not exercising a discriminating mind? If you are aiming towards a state of non-discrimination. If you're aiming? Or aiming, I notice, oh I'm sorry. No, it's okay. If you're aiming, you're discriminating. You're still discriminating. Do you want to say, if you have a non-discriminating mind, then how would you discriminate? Is that what you want to say? Well, you ask your question. I'm not going to guess. Can you get it out, please? No, you get it out. I don't even know my question. There's some tendency among people when they hear about non-discrimination to think that non-discrimination means you don't discriminate. That's not what it means. Non-discrimination means you understand the process of discrimination. So, before you understand the process of discrimination,

[37:29]

you at least would do well to watch yourself discriminate. So you're present, right? You're practicing uprightness. You're not moving. You notice somebody's discriminating around you. Now, what are they discriminating? They're noticing the virtue of these people. They're discriminating. These people are virtuous. And also there's a discrimination. Oh, I made a mistake. This is discrimination. You're still in the realm of discrimination, and you're also noticing your discrimination. All right? Are you following this? Okay. So this is the realm of discrimination, and you're watching how you discriminate, hopefully. You're learning how you discriminate. You notice, for example, I notice myself, people I've noticed, is that when I notice people's virtues, when I discriminate, and I see, oh, there's a person, and it's a virtuous person, I notice that that discrimination goes with me being very happy.

[38:30]

Also, when I notice my errors, I notice that goes with not being real happy about that, actually feeling some remorse, and maybe some embarrassment, but it goes with me being less dangerous. Because I don't think I'm right. At least for that moment. And when I don't think I'm right, I'm not as dangerous as when I think I'm right. Because when I'm right, well, I'm right, so you better be right too. Otherwise, we're going to have to do some correction. So noticing that you're making a mistake, you humble yourself. And also when you notice, which you kind of experience, gee, that kind of like feels good to be humbled in a way. It's not humiliated. It's humbled. That's kind of like a Buddha, or like a Zen master, to be humble, right? That's cool. I feel good when I'm humble. And also, when you're humble, you start noticing the virtues of others. You get lower and lower, and they get higher and higher. And then you say, gee, they're really great.

[39:34]

That feels good. So this whole thing of watching that kind of discrimination, you notice that noticing your own errors makes you safer, and less, you know, like, what, the autocrat of the universe kind of thing, laying down the law because you know what it is. You become more humble and soft, and you also appreciate people more. So you notice that process of discrimination, how that works. And you also notice that you still may have the habit of thinking that you're right, and they're less than virtuous. And you notice how that works. You watch that, and you notice that it's caused lots of problems. And you hear about Buddhism being the path of peace and harmony, and you notice that that sort of goes with this thing of you noticing your errors and appreciating others. And you notice that Buddhism says that noticing others' errors and your virtues, that that's not the path of Buddhism. And you notice that does cause lots of war. You know, you can go join, you can go over,

[40:35]

with that path you can go over to Yugoslavia and have a great time, and find a lot of people just like you there at this time who really want war, because they're right, and they themselves are right, and the other people are wrong. Is that correct? Do you know what's happening? Are you with me? I'm following. Are you with me? I'm with you. Oh, good. I don't want to get ahead of you, all right? I was a little unclear about that. Could you wait? I'm sure talking to you. I'll talk to you later. I just want just one person at a time. So, if you watch the process of discrimination in this way, and get more and more familiar with it, after a while, you develop what's called non-discrimination. In other words, you no longer are caught by your discriminations. You understand so well how they're dependently co-arisen, that you're detached from your own discriminations. You start not believing your discriminations as realities. When you really understand your process of discrimination,

[41:38]

when you, in other words, are very skillful at watching yourself discriminate, you become liberated from your process of discrimination. That's called non-discrimination. And before that time, you believe your discriminations to some extent. You still believe. You think, oh, that person's virtuous. I'm an error. That's not really true, that they're virtuous and you're an error. It's actually neither one of you are virtuous or an error. Both of you are far beyond any such measurement. But temporarily, you think it's true. They're virtuous and I'm an error, or I'm right and they're wrong. That also we think is true, which is much more dangerous. So, you learn all the textures and landscapes of discrimination. You become a master or mistress of the process. And when you're a master or mistress of it, you fly out and far beyond discrimination. But based on mastery of the process is how you fly beyond it. Not by stopping it. Because if you stop the process of discrimination, you know what will happen?

[42:39]

It will get very big. They turn into this immense monster and will come and get you. But it'll be much worse than it ever was before you got rid of it. Like I heard Jesus said, if you bring what's inside forth, it will save you. But if you don't bring what's inside forth, it will destroy you. So, you have a process of discrimination inside you. If you go in there and master it, become proficient at it, learn about how it works, you will be able to bring it forth. And when you bring it forth, it'll set you free from itself. That's non-discrimination. If you don't learn about your discrimination, you don't bring it forth, it will destroy you. And not, unfortunately, it won't just destroy you, it might destroy some other people too. If they don't, if they haven't learned non-discrimination, that is. Okay? Does that address your question? Right. You're welcome. Let's see, who is next? You are next? I think so.

[43:40]

This is kind of related. Yeah. The thing about harm and harmlessness, I can see there are these situations where a certain kind of pattern is indulged in, and it isn't yet fully recognized as harmful, and yet there's some kind of, you know, a drag that occurs. Partial recognition is fine. Well, let me just take it further. You know, it's not even partial recognition, it's just like, well, why is my cat here? And so, in a sense, once that, you know, that the next time it happens, well, maybe that has something to do with such and such. Yeah, right. So there's a whole process of this recognition. So even from the very beginning, with, you know, calling it harm, there's a sense in which the whole thing is coherent and whole. And then there's a recognition of something like perfection.

[44:45]

Yeah. So what I want to ask about is celebration of perfection. Okay, what do you want to ask about it? Well, it seems like it's a little different than just recognizing a misstep. It seems like it's a little different? Yeah. How is it different? It's just seeing this kind of natural process, natural kind of movement away from misery. And that's great. And so there's a kind of happiness. And there's a kind of, you know, kind of not entirely visible, but some, well, there's some kind of perception or apperception of things working out. That's, you know, that's okay. That's great. So what's your question? I wonder, I mean, it seems to me that sometimes there's a way, sometimes there's a reminder or something. There's an internal reminder of that, that produces happiness or something happens

[45:47]

that produces that kind of recognition. And for me it feels different than just kind of noticing, uh-oh, there I go again. I never saw that it had this effect. It is different. It is different to notice an error than to have a kind of inkling of perfection. But they are different, aren't they? Yeah. But what's your question? What about Buddhism? Well, what's Buddhism? That kind of inkling of perfection. Inkling of perfection? I mean, it seems like, sometimes it seems to me that... It's not Buddhism, no. No. But also, nothing's Buddhism. Don't worry. But if that inkling of perfection, if you enjoy it, I would suggest you enjoy it and have a party about it, if you want to. And if you want to know if that's Buddhism, I would say no. But noticing the misstep is... What?

[46:47]

But noticing the misstep you would call Buddhism. No, I wouldn't call it Buddhism, exactly. I'd call it Buddha's way. Definitely Buddha's practice is to notice... When you make a mistake, to notice it. And to admit it honestly. Buddhism has to do with honestly admitting what's happening. So...

[47:04]

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