One's about the effects of... One's a Western story about birth and death. And one's an Eastern story about birth and death. They're both really beautiful films. You're kind of the artsy type. And in the Eastern one, I saw it last night, the Eastern movie about Mongolia. Yeah. And so the couple of scenes in there that I just want to tell you about, one was this Russian guy had met this Mongolian herdsman and brought him to a discotheque in this large Mongolian city. And they were sitting around, and this other Russian said to this one Russian, can you remember your grandfather's name? And he said, can you remember your great-grandfather's name?

[01:05]

I think he couldn't remember his great-grandfather's name. I don't remember exactly, but can you remember your great-great-grandfather's name? Anyway, he couldn't remember either his great-grandfather or his great-great-grandfather. And I thought, you know, well, in a way that's really sad that we can't remember our great-grandmother and great-grandfather's names. Anyway, they thought it was sad. But then I thought, but now we have this family where we can remember not just our great, [...] great grandfather's name, but a lot many grandfathers before that. We have this family that we know our ancestors going back. All that way, I really thought it was really nice to have this off this family. That's what I felt anyway. And here we have these stories about our ancestors. The way it's too bad we don't have stories about all of our ancestors, but at least we have this family where we can trace something about our lineage going back and [...] back.

[02:21]

Kind of nice. And there was another scene which I liked a lot, many beautiful scenes, but one particular one I thought was kind of neat. His wife wanted him to start using birth control, because in modern Mongolia you're supposed to not have too many kids, and they already had three. In the city, you're only supposed to have one. Anyway, so he went to the He went into the pharmacy to get condoms, but when the girls in the store asked him if he wanted them, she said, do you want to buy condoms? And he said, certainly not. And he left. Then he went home and his wife said, well, did you get what I asked you to get? He said, they were sold out. But then he he still went and asked a lama.

[03:25]

He traveled 60 miles to ask a lama about it. So he went into the temple and the lama was doing prostrations. And he walked up next to him and just, you know, laid down next to him. And I don't remember exactly if he actually got the question out about whether he should use condoms or not. But the lama going, So I said to him, I said, you got problems? I got problems too. He just sat there on his elbow a little while watching the guy bow and then he just got up and got on his horse and went home. Okay, well, we're still on this snake thing, right?

[04:29]

Yes? What's the name of that thing? Well, it's translated close to Eden or near to Eden or something like that. But the real name is, I think, Lurga, which is the name of those houses that they live in in Mongolia, those yurts, you know. What's the other thing? Waterlands. Not too much humor in that one. Plenty of suffering, though. Both of them are about birth and death, about making babies and babies dying. Young babies, old babies. Anyway, they're both about that kind of stuff, and both very beautiful. Both great acting. So we're talking about the terminal snake.

[05:32]

How's it going? How's the terminal snake this week? Well, do people know what a terminal snake is? Do you know? A terminal snake is a snake that eats, well, eats people. And after it eats them, it digests them and excretes Buddhas. Does that make sense to you? Something eats people and shits Buddhas. That's a terminal snake. Whatever does that, we call a terminal snake on Snowy Summit. That's what they call them. Does that make sense to you? Do you know what eats people and makes Buddhas? That's a turtleneck snake. So people at Green Gulch have been working with that this week, right? It hasn't been pleasant, has it? Last week was worse.

[06:33]

But last week you didn't have a turtleneck snake to help you. I mean, week before last. I think a turtleneck snake is helpful. Did you find it so? No? Yeah. Huh? Find it sad? Do you find... Well, did you find it sad or is sadness the term no snake? Yeah. And is sadness about impermanence? So is sadness the term no snake? No, it's not. It's impermanence. It's not sadness. Well, maybe sadness is the scales on the turtleneck snake. Maybe sadness is the digestive fluid of the turtleneck snake. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Sadness is what helps the sentient beings go through the turtleneck snake and come out the other end.

[07:41]

Does that make sense? Turtleneck snake takes old, worn-out sentient beings and lets them die. and then makes them into new Buddhas, makes them into beings before the empty aeon. Empty aeon, that means... What does empty aeon mean? Before time. Well, the beginning of time. The empty aeon is the beginning of time. It's the first... In the cosmic cycle, the empty aeon, the aeon of emptiness, is the first moment or the first aeon, same thing. It's not really before. It's not really before. It's the first, it's the beginning of time, the empty aeon. Right? I tend to think of it as the context of everything. Each thing is in the context of the empty aeon. Is that? Each thing is in the context of the empty aeon. Yeah, the empty aeon is the first time context.

[08:43]

It allows other kinds of time to happen. Okay? But before the empty aeon, before there's any context for things, before you think. That's real freshness, right? So it's a story about death and birth. Yeah, right. It's a story about death and birth. Birth and death. Well, in particular, it's a story about death and birth. The terminal snake eats us, that's the end of us, and then we become new. And the digestive fluid of the terminal snake, one of the digestive fluids is sadness. Because we have a hard time going with our death, sadness helps us go with it. By sadness, we come up to meet... You know, we come up to the present and there we meet what comes after the present.

[09:46]

That's the term most make. Who eats them? As soon as you think about new Buddhas, we have a sentient being. Sentient beings are what thinks about Buddha. Okay? That's Dogen's definition of sentient being. Right? Did you know that's one definition of a sentient being? Thinking about Buddhas is a sentient being. Is that okay? Okay? So if I mention that these snakes eat people, the snakes eat the people who think about Buddha, and after they're eaten, they become people who don't think about Buddha anymore.

[10:52]

And people who don't think about Buddha, in other words, people who don't think about anything other than being people, these are called Buddhas. Right? Is that OK? Do turtle-nosed snakes eat other than practitioners? They eat everybody, not just practitioners. So people who are not practitioners are still thinking about Buddhas? Correct. They don't say that they don't call Buddha, but what do they think? What do they call Buddha? They call Buddha as their truth, right? And everybody has a truth which they're thinking about. And because they think about it, they're sentient beings. And because they think about it, they're half dead. So turning those snakes finishes them off. Are you people following this? It's strange language, but maybe you... Sort of?

[11:55]

No? What part didn't you follow? No. Well, do you want to try to chew on it a little bit? Can you help you chew? What did you have trouble with? Don't swallow before you chew. It's good. If any of you got this stuck in your throat, please come forward so we can help you chew it. I'm not trying to stuff this down your throat. I'm just talking. You said that because they think about food as a half day. Right. When you think about Buddhas or you think about your truth, you're half dead because you just split yourself into two, cut your life in half.

[13:06]

You made your life into you and the rest of the universe, so you're half alive, which is also called half dead. But rather than emphasizing the live side, let's emphasize the dead side, because people don't seem to have any trouble emphasizing the live side. They cut their life in half and then they hold the little bit they have left over, which doesn't help at all. It's better just to sort of say, Okay, I screwed it up. Right? Do you know what I mean? That's called confession of being a human being. I'm a human being. I bifurcate my life. I make my life into two pieces. I rip it asunder. I decrease it by at least half, but actually, you know, I don't know how to measure it. So, at that point, it's good to finish yourself off as soon as possible, or let yourself be finished off as soon as possible. Everyone will be greatly relieved and then you get a fresh start. Which is happening all the time. Everybody actually is having their truth... rend... rend?

[14:14]

Rend? Rend. The rend. Constantly. All you got to do is admit that and determine, huh? And you're all set. And it's sad. There's a sadness in that. Unless you're perfectly, you know, with the process, then it probably wouldn't be sad. You'd be right there. You wouldn't need it. I mean, if you can digest without even processing, you know, it through the snake. like if you can digest sort of on the spot, then you don't have to be sad. But otherwise, you've got to pass it through your elementary processes, and the sadness moves it through. The sadness is what, if you can feel the sadness moving your old self through you out the other end. And this is not a waste product, though. This is a new birth. This is a meditation called the Turtle Nose Snake.

[15:16]

or meditation on impermanence. What did you say happens to Buddhas after they're excluded? Then how do the sentient beings come from? How do the sentient beings get back in the picture again? Oh, there's a thought of Buddhas and then there's a sentient being. Oh, right away. Right away. Yeah, basically right away, right. As soon as there's a slightest, as soon as there's a hair's breadth deviation, in other words, as soon as a human mind makes the slightest distance from the Buddha, enjoys the Buddha as an object in the slightest way, then a sentient being is born, because sentient beings are the things that think about Buddha. That's what a sentient being is. Of course, they feel totally miserable because they just separated themselves from their true nature. Did I hear some mumbling back there?

[16:20]

Oh, Stuart! Come up closer, Stuart. Please, I can't see you. I'm going blind. Sit within grace. Don't sit in front of Harlow. Please. Please. Yes, Stuart? Mumble, mumble, growl. In both the Pali Canon Mahayana sutras, the Buddha refers to himself as Buddha and discusses Buddha. And in the Mahayana sutras also there's reference to other Buddhas. Buddha refers to Buddhas. Right. So is the implication of that that Buddha is a sentient being? No.

[17:20]

The implication there is that Buddha is allowed this conceit because Buddha does not have any objects of thought. Buddha realizes the emptiness of the objective nature of his discussion. therefore Buddha can talk like this with impunity, with no... There's a conceit there for Buddha to say that. Either that I am a Buddha, or there are Buddhas, or that's Buddha. Buddha can talk like that, and we can talk like that too. But if we think that there's anything out there, then we're a sentient being. Buddhas do not... fall for that. However, their mind can talk and think of objects, but they see the emptiness of this separation of subject and object. They understand the mind, and the mind has an active and a passive side. The passive side is the objects, the active side is the ability to imagine that they're separate, right? Buddhas understanding this do not fall for the separation.

[18:24]

so they can talk about all they want without falling into the trap of believing that bifurcating function of human consciousness. Human consciousness means, both in English the word consciousness and the Sanskrit word vijnana mean, to separate. You know, shasnas, consciousness or science means to separate. Right? Right? That's the root of the word. It means to separate. And vijnana means to cut. No, knowing which cuts. So Buddhas have consciousness and their consciousness splits things. But the Buddha is not a consciousness. Buddha is the understanding that consciousness is cutting and that the cutting is only due to consciousness. There's not actually consciousness. It's just that the nature of consciousness is it has these two sides. It has a side of being able to receive awareness and a side of being able to be aware.

[19:28]

So the separation is instilled and the separation is applied to truth, or the Buddha, and that makes a sentient being. So when Buddhas are not fooled anymore by this separation, they're no longer sentient beings. But they have all the equipment of sentient beings, and if they didn't, their teaching would be more or less irrelevant to us. But they have the same equipment, they, you know, Buddha has the same equipment as a sentient being. As a matter of fact, as Stuart heard some time ago, the condition of having the equipment of a sentient being is precisely what we mean by awakening. A Buddha is precise, Buddha, not a Buddha, but Buddha is precisely the condition of having a bifurcating consciousness. That is what Buddha is, precisely that situation. itself. That's Buddha. But if there's a hair's breadth deviation there, it's a sentient being.

[20:39]

As soon as there's the slightest difference there, as soon as there's the slightest bit of looking at the condition of being a sentient being, that's not the condition of being a sentient being. It actually is the condition of being a sentient being, but as soon as you think that you can look at the condition and be separate from it, then you're not the condition of sentient being, therefore Buddha is, you know, Buddha is just something which can be another object, because everything then becomes objects that you know about. Did you call that? No. Who didn't? Oh, okay. Well, do you want to ask the question and then we can try to... Yeah, maybe I don't follow it either. But is there a... Can you talk about... Yeah. Is there an aspect of consciousness that the bifurcation occurs in one of the consciousnesses? All consciousnesses.

[21:40]

All consciousnesses. All those consciousnesses, all those different types. Bifurcate. That's what they do. Yeah. But what takes that bifurcation for real? Does that have a name or is there... an aspect of consciousness which imputes inherent reality into that process of bifurcating? Yeah. It's called, well basically it's called, either called imagination, or creative imagination, or you could also call it maybe defiled imagination. But you don't have to say defiled. In other words, we have the ability to imagine in the whole field of causation, we have the ability to imagine that something exists by itself. The human mind can create such a fantasy. That fantasy of an independently existing thing, that's it. That's what makes this bifurcation.

[22:41]

And, excuse me, that's not what makes bifurcation. That's what makes you believe in the bifurcation. The bifurcation is just another causal situation, namely, the mind is split in two, but the split, the split is where it meets. So you can't split something without joining it. So if you meditate on the splitting function of consciousness, you can also realize that the splitting is precisely the place you realize union. But the belief that one of the parts, or both parts, either the object or the subject, exists independent of the other, that's what makes a sentient being. But the precise condition of the mind which is split which also is joined by the function of splitting, and is split by the function of splitting, and is also split by the function of joining. That is a sentient being, and that precise condition is Buddha.

[23:48]

Buddha is actually the understanding that that's the way it is. And also the understanding is not out here looking at that. The fact that it's that way is Buddha. Is that why babies are not Buddhas or beings that haven't attained consciousness because they don't have sense apparatus to do that yet or they've been damaged? They're not Buddhas because they haven't developed that. They're not Buddhas because they're not deluded. You can't make a Buddha without delusion. Buddha is a response to sentient delusion. Without sentient delusion, there's no need for Buddhas. They don't have any play in the world. Buddhas are just to save beings from this belief in inherent existence in this separation. That's what Buddhas are for. So prior to that development, Buddhas do not appear in the world. There's no need. for them to appear.

[24:50]

And also if they did appear, the beings that they appeared to wouldn't even, you know, they would have no... They're simultaneous with that development. Hmm? Part and parcel with that development. The development exists and Buddha must exist. Buddhas appear right at that time. They don't wait at all. That's, Buddhas, you know, are really, you know, fast. Because Buddhas are precisely like that condition. Again, it's not like there's Buddhas over here and sentient beings over here. That conditions reality as Buddha. Pardon? That conditions reality, the it of that... The suchness. The suchness of that situation is Buddha, is what we mean by Buddha. Therefore, the practice, the Zen practice, which is not just Zen, but it's just a basic teaching of Mahayana, the practice is just for sentient beings... not to move. That's the practice. So would it be correct to say that the snake is always biting, the snake never stops biting?

[25:56]

Never stops biting. In terms of sentient beings, when is a sentient being it gets bitten? The sentient being is to be in the condition of being bitten. Yes, that's right. The precise condition of sentient being is bitten. That's why we should ascertain the precise condition of sentient being. Then we're on the spot, we can be bitten and released. But if we're not there, we don't understand that we're being saved moment by moment by this wonderful snake. We don't realize that this condition itself is release because we think of Buddhas, right? And we somehow can't just be there thinking of Buddhism and realize that's our suffering, and just sit still with that long enough to be released. It's very hard for us to not fall for our imagination.

[27:03]

That's why Buddhists have to be so great. and skillful, we have to be so great and skillful at being with ourselves, because we're so fast, pinging, so clever. It's hard to believe how smart we are. Yes? I had a question a moment ago following this last conversation. It sounded like you were talking about two different kinds of... ways that we bifurcate fortuitous metals, and I just wanted to clarify that or not. There's this basic bifurcation, or distinction, between what, it wasn't clear, but you were saying that precisely, that is, precisely what that is, or what is precisely that, in that split there's still joining, this split there has to be this connection between whatever's being split. But then it also sounded like there's a further distinction, or stepping back, I wasn't sure if this was what you were saying or not, another sort of distinction which somehow is not, somehow is a little more tainted, so to speak.

[28:11]

There's a red line of iron beads on the sides of the bifurcation. Correct. So what's the difference between those two kinds of split or standing parts? Hold on a moment. Okay. What? Yeah, great suffering is a difference. That's a difference. So did you follow what he said? That was correct. And maybe I misspoke when I said that Buddha was the first splitting. The first splitting, if you see the first splitting, where you also see if the splitting is the joining, that wherever... wherever there is a separation between, for example, between consciousness and its field, and the separation between consciousness and the field is actually, oh, sorry, that's the organ. What interposes itself between awareness and its field is what we call the organ.

[29:15]

Okay? So, the organ is the place where you split, but the organ is the place you meet, and you can't see the organ. But the organ splits one thing into two parts. So then these two parts, which are actually one thing looking at itself, but looking in one direction, that split is where they meet. They meet at the split, they split at the meet. That's basic illusion. Now, that condition, if that's what's happening, that condition is Buddha. However, it is not yet necessary for Buddha to appear at that point. There has to be one additional step, and that is, in conjunction with this, an imagination, a fantasy develops, and that is that this exists by itself, which is a projection, a belief that this exists by itself. or that something else, which is responsible for this show, exists by itself.

[30:19]

In other words, there is the imagination of something independent of something else. This independent of that, that independent of this, this independent of other things like that. But basically some idea of an independently inherent thing. And it gets projected this way, that way. That is what definitely brings on the need for a Buddha. And that's the full-fledged situation of a sentient being. That condition, that whole smear, is what a Buddha is. But if that second part wasn't there, then that would be reality, but not yet called a Buddha, because a Buddha only appears to save people from this great suffering. I wouldn't really call that a Buddha yet. A person isn't really that asleep yet to require a big awakening. Because the mind's just creating illusions of separateness, but there isn't yet a belief that this is real. Are you talking about the case of an infant? An infant, or some beings that are not as evolved into imagining that something exists outside of itself.

[31:27]

And that also, that it exists outside of itself and independent of it, and that other things, various things are independent. So a being that doesn't have that ability doesn't constellate a Buddha. It's not necessary. They just don't have those kind of problems that require bringing in, you know, big-time awakening. Can you offer any insight into why this happens? Well, it's not exactly insight. Why are you getting insight? I don't know. I kind of feel like the reason why this happens, well, the reason why it happens is because the life of the being yearns for its fullness. Now, if you're wondering why does the being get in this trouble in the first place, it's because, I would say, it's basically because these life forms have relatively recently, in terms of their evolution, have relatively recently developed

[32:31]

a special role in the universe, that is, of being mirrors for the cosmos. But the human species in this neighborhood of the cosmos apparently is performing a special function of objective awareness, of knowing things. Now, other animals may also know things, so they share in this problem with us to that extent. But our ability to know things and then make these things into concrete things has separated us from another realm of our life where we don't know things. Which has caused a major disturbance in our biology. So we have less fun and we're less kind to each other because of that less fun and all that. We have all this misery because of this ability to adapt to this new ability of our mind. That's what I think is the cause of this problem. And then, I would say that as an adaptive mechanism to reestablish full life, we created this real big pain so that we would redress it.

[33:42]

Because without that, we would just be wandering in a vague sense of half-lifeness or, you know, wounded vitality, wounded love. Because as objective knowledge occurs, we also lose track of the fact that we're one person. OK, so there's no problem. And why does there have to be a cause? Why does there have to be a cause? For no problem? Yeah. I mean, OK, well, it's really confusing. But OK, here we have this problem, obviously. And so I don't have this all sorted out myself. So I ask, what is the cause for this problem? And I hear a cause, which sounds somewhat valid, and yet I'm also hearing that there's no problem.

[34:46]

So then why suggest a cause? Is that confusing? It seems to help people. People first asked Buddha, you know, according to the Mahayana tradition, people first asked Buddha, you know, well, tell us about it. And he just told them how great it was. He just told them how, actually, we're all interconnected, we're all in love, we all care about each other, and, you know, even though we do all this stuff the way we do it, it actually is really unbelievably groovy. And they didn't understand what he was talking about. So he said, okay, there's misery and there's a cause. Therefore, since there's a cause, if you would remove that cause, there would be no more misery. But he first of all spoke from the point of view of understanding that and having no misery, that people didn't understand what he was talking about. So he took their point of view, namely that they're suffering, and then he also told them there's a cause. Because from the point of view of suffering, there is a cause. But from the point of view of not a suffering, there's no cause and no effect. Suffering is wanting a cause, perhaps.

[35:48]

Yeah, suffering would be like, part of suffering is, again, you see things out there, Therefore, since you see things out there, you want to control them. You want to make Buddha... What you've separated yourself from, you want to get back, if it's good. So you'd like to have some kind of method to do it, which exacerbates the suffering. You said... Turtleneck snake saves people from this. Yeah. Yeah. You said earlier that we have this special human function, which is to mirror the cosmos, and then later you said that it's also, our function is to know things. Yeah, first to mirror, then to know we mirrored, and then, that's not, and then, in order to make things bad enough so we'll recover what we lost, we believe that what we just mirrored and knew exists independently of everything else.

[36:49]

Without that tragic flaw, we would wander in a realm separated from the realm where we don't know anything and where there's nothing outside of ourselves. And I imagine you didn't follow that. The mirroring function is that the mind can can put part of itself up and be aware of itself. And what it is is actually is entire cosmos. So the mind can put a mirror up in itself and point it back at itself. So it can put a mirror up in the universe and point it at the universe and reflect some part of the universe in this mirror. The mind can do that. And it can also then know that, can see that as something outside itself. And it can also imagine that it is outside. That's the job that I propose we're doing. However, by getting involved in this wonderful feat, we have lost contact with the realm prior to that, which is actually more fundamental, where we don't run around and do things, where we don't know anything, and also we're not separated from anything, which is, you know, most of where we're at, actually.

[38:04]

But anyway, where there's most anyway, it's important. It's a realm where we're innocent of conception and we're innocent of bifurcation and we're innocent of reification and substantiation and metaphysics and all that we're free of there. We have no burdens other than breathing. But this realm of knowing somehow can't relate to this other realm. So part of us is stuck in this realm where we forgot about another part of us. We need reunion. So by imagining that what we've reflected upon, what we've known, by imagining that these things exist independent, which is kind of like not an arbitrary kind of a fault, it makes sense that you would do that if you think about it, By that thing, we get into such extreme pain and we do such extremely stupid thing based on that delusion that it forces us to rectify the situation.

[39:11]

And by rectifying that situation, we not only correct that basic, not the basic, but the secondary mental phenomena of delusion. believing inherent existence, we not only cure ourselves of that and take away that pain, but it also brings about reunion. So you get a double benefit by understanding this one final human error. Does reunion happen through knowing? Does reunion happen through knowing? It's the... Reunion happens through the nature of knowing and the nature of imagining... that what is known has inherent existence. The understanding of how that works causes reunion. Is that understanding known? It is not known. It is realized, though. It is not an object of consciousness. Is this the state of non-duality? Where there's no duality?

[40:16]

No, non-duality is not where there's no duality. Non-duality is where duality and non-duality are non-dual. Or rather, that's not correct. Non-duality is where duality and oneness are non-dual. And that's our life. Our life is, our actual life is a realm where we don't have separation and objects of knowledge. And our life is also where we do have separation and objects of knowledge. That's our whole life. And reunion happens when we see through the realm of separation in the realm of making things into heron existence. What does it mean that human beings have evolved in function to mirror the universe and evolve with things that follow?

[41:25]

What does it mean that human beings... What does it mean that sentient beings evolved a function? Is it that I understand what you say? That we evolved a function to mirror and follow with... Somehow we didn't have... What does that mean? I don't know. That I don't see. It just seems like something that happened. I don't know why. I don't see, actually, that doesn't seem to be, I don't feel a need to, I haven't felt a need to answer that. That doesn't seem like an answer upon which freedom pivots. The other one does seem like an answer upon which freedom pivots because people can kind of make excuses for being lazy if they feel that the universe is beating up on them arbitrarily.

[42:32]

But this isn't, I think, this wound in us, this wound in our love, you might say, I see that there's a, that seems to be, it's not the final insult in the sense of an unfairness, it's a final insult in the sense that it gets us motivated. The other one doesn't seem so important to, I mean, I just don't see it, I've never seen it as necessary to make up a kind of, like, positive scenario about. You've all, so, you know, has sort of been, Well, evolution is not necessarily positive. It's just adaptation. Somehow we, you know, I don't know how this thing's happening, like the organism sort of unfolds on itself and makes these little cavities, and after a while the cavities become sensitive, and then somehow eyeballs start appearing in the surface of the skin, and that's evolution. I don't know. That is original.

[43:36]

Original sin is not the separation. Original sin for humans is a belief in inherent existence. That's original sin. Yes? In case the disgrace of Chan Chin, do you take that for Iran or... Okay, let's look at this, shall we? The new people are going to have trouble following this, so here's a story, okay? This Zen teacher says to his monks, he says, There's a turtle-nosed snake on South Mountain, which is equivalent of saying there's a turtle-nosed snake in the fields of Green Gulch.

[44:39]

Okay? Out there in those fields, there's a snake which will eat you up, which will eat your sentient beingness up and make you into a Buddha. You should all watch out. That's what the teacher said, okay? It's a warning about something which might happen. So then his elder monk comes forward and said, certainly there are people in this assembly who are losing their bodies and their lives. Does that make sense? the way we understand this story, then at that time another monk came up and took a staff and threw it down on the ground and made a gesture of fright. I see this as happening together. Then later, although it's interposed in the story, then later a Dharma brother of these two monks heard about this story from one of his monks

[45:46]

And he said, only my elder brother Chongqing, the one who said, certainly there are people in this assembly who are losing their bodies and lives, only my elder brother Chongqing could be like this. I myself do not agree. I'm not like this. And the monk says, well, how are you, teacher? And he says, why use South Mountain? In other words, the turtle-nosed snake is at Green Gulch or down in the fields. Any comment on that? It sounds like you're saying, why is it somewhere else? Why use another place, or why use any place? Why bring that into it? No. He's not the one who brought it into it. Right. Trey Fung did, right? Right. Teacher did. Okay, now... The commentator, the great teacher Tien Tung, says, now he's talking about Shren Cha, the one who said, elder brother Chongqing can be like this, but I'm not like this.

[46:57]

I say, why use South Mountain? The commentator says, Shren Cha's great strength, Chongqing's little courage. Okay, so Stewart's asking, is he seriously criticizing Chongqing's strength and praising Shrensha? Well, if he does, he's sitting on South Mountain himself. Well, is he? Is he sitting on South Mountain? This is a real problem here. Go ahead. Before we go into that, I'd really... Well, Kirk just brought in... You get the accent. Kirk. Well, I thought you were his friend. It sounds like... Well, Shatcha said... You know, one said, Mr. Shatcha, only Brother Chakchi...

[48:03]

However, he's right, I don't care. So we were talking about Chongqing. What did Chongqing say? Today, of all, there are many people losing their life. Chongqing didn't say anything about this. No, he didn't. Okay, so Shanshan is criticizing Chongqing or whatever, saying, I don't agree with Chongqing. And he says, well, what did you say? I said, why did you sell it? Well, because you didn't say anything about it. So, yeah, I mean, is there a typo here? No, no, Chanhsingh, no. Chanhsingh didn't say anything. Chanhsingh is talking about the meditation. The meditation holds in that. that he's pointing away from himself, he's still pointing to himself now, instead of pointing to himself in a line, which are the most... I think this is why... It's not a rationalization, actually.

[49:07]

You can say that. Okay. Grace. Well, it's a question. Well, wait a second. Don't ask questions. I want to know, if you were there, what would you say? Just, ouch, ouch. Okay. You were where? Which part? Wait a second now. Do you say ouch? Yeah. Is that sincere? But you have no where? I'm here. So you can't say where you've heard? Everywhere. Okay. Are you like that? I usually have a wear for the ouch. For this ouch? Let's go back.

[50:10]

You heard about this Zen monk, this Zen monk Chang Cheng, who said there are certainly people in this assembly who are losing their bodies and lives. Do you agree with him? I agree with him. Well, then there's no issue. You don't, right? No, I didn't agree. Who doesn't? He says it. Well, there's no trench out here, then. Okay, Grace. I thought we had some people here. No, even though he's right, I do not... Not that he's wrong, but... I didn't say wrong, did I? No. I said, do you agree with him? You said yes, didn't you? The way... I think that he's right, but he's missing Xuan Shen Sha's point. You see, he's missing it, but now it's your chance to make a point. Yes. We're not talking about him being wrong.

[51:11]

I just said, do people agree or not? You agree? Okay, well, you're out of it. Do you agree? With what? With Chan Ching. It's okay to agree. I don't know. It's all right. which is there are people right here losing their lives. Is that what you're asking me if I agree with it? I'm asking if you agree with him saying it. He's being a sentient being, right? He's admitting his duality. So do you agree with him? I don't agree exactly. Well, what do you want to say about it? He's reflecting one side of the way we think. Yeah, that's fine. I dislike him. You dislike him? I dislike him. If you were there, what would you say? I'd say, why are you talking about bodies and lives?

[52:13]

It's an emergency. There's a snake. Grace? No, it's okay. Very cool. Snake belly. Edvado, is there a typo or am I still going to... You're going to be confused. I don't think there's a typo, I think... Then why did Shantanu say, why use South Mountain? Because he's saying, maybe what he's saying is the teacher is using South Mountain not because he made a mistake, he's using it intentionally. So why do you think he used South Mountain? It wasn't like a little slip. Where is South Mountain anyway? Outside of yourself. Right here. Outside. Everything, everything in the universe is outside yourself, okay? when anything you know is outside yourself, you could say. So that can be the location of this turban-nosed snake.

[53:17]

Turban-nosed snake is, it says at the end there, you know, what it doesn't say is in a blue-clip record, at the end of the verse, the teacher says, watch out, it's right under your feet. Okay? So that's where South Mountain is. Or you could say that's where South Mountain is. I won't say that like that is where South Mountain is, but you could say that. Still, why use that? What does it mean, why use that? Whether he's talking about Chongqing or Shui Fung. Do you think Chongqing was doing any... It looks to me like he was going along with South Mountain. He didn't posit it, but that's where he is. Looks like... He's in the hall with the monks. So I wouldn't worry too much about who's getting blamed here. The point is, Shren Cha doesn't agree with somebody. And he says, Elder Chongqing is right, but I don't agree. He says, why you South Mountain?

[54:19]

What does that mean, why you South Mountain? What's the difference between You know, South Mountain is right in front of Elephant Bone Crag, right? It's right on the front door. Here's the door, and there's South Mountain. So you could say that, or you could say the steps. He's using the thief's horse to catch them. There's also a scene where he pushes the guy down the steps, right, in the previous case. Yes? He's using the thief's horse to catch them. Yeah, so what does it mean not to use South Mountain? What do you have to say? Yes? Well, the only way I can understand really deeply puzzled by this. And the only way I can understand it is contrasting him to a young man whose behavior is praised. And it seems that the difference between Chongqing and young men is that Chongqing is talking about and young men is enacting.

[55:20]

Seems that way, doesn't it? And also remember, a few cases ago, they referred to this case. And the same commentator here, who seems to be criticizing Chongqing, who's talking about, and Shrenshaw, who's saying, why use anything? In a previous verse, he said, the snake handler of elephant bone crag, in other words, yin-men, things done in childhood are embarrassing in old age. So a possibility there is, although he didn't act this wonderful drama, it's embarrassing. Another possibility here is that Shrensha was strong, and some other people in this room are strong.

[56:25]

But the elder, who we don't agree with because he's talking about, is the elder. He's not wrong, but he's a little bit up to lunch and kind of wimpy. We have the powerful, the great Shrensha and the daring dramatic, astonishing, yin-men. But yin-men may be embarrassed about this later. Whereas Chang Ching, although he's not wrong, we don't agree with him. Why? Partly because we're either young and dramatic and astonishing, or we're middle-aged and still very powerful, like Shrensha. Chang Ching's kind of weak. This is part of what's going on here. And I think it's wonderful that we have young people who are astonishing, who will someday be embarrassed by what they have done.

[57:32]

We have middle-aged people who are still pretty virile. We have some old people who are just tottering along. And when the teachers... And when the teacher says that there's a turtle-nosed snake at Gringotts, they say, yes, it's true. And they're not kidding. So in a way, he's being ironic, but also I think he's also saying that Chongqing is small bravery. He's not such a brave, powerful monk anymore. He's an elder. No more pyrotechnics from this guy. So... Well, he doesn't need them. Huh? He doesn't need them. He doesn't need them. He's all worn out. He's an old... Well... Anyway, then it says, the turtle-nosed snake on Salt Mountain, dead, has no use.

[58:40]

It died... uselessly. Wind and clouds meet, horns on the head are born. After all, we see yin-man pitching into play, pitching into play. In a flash of lightning, see the change in movement. With me, it's possible to send away and summon. With him, there's capture and release. The underlying matter, to whom is it imparted now? The cold mouth wounds people, yet they don't feel pain.

[59:44]

So Tien Tung, the poet here, is saying, when it's mine, I let go or call back. With him, he grabs and releases. Looks like yin-men. He's a snake. Like a snake. Yin-men's like the snake. It's also verbal versus active. I would say that Shensha and Chongqing both allowed the snake to die and didn't allow horns to be born on their head, whereas Yunyan did allow horns to be born on his head. What do you think of those horns on his head? What are those horns? The earthworms become dragons.

[61:02]

Are those dragon horns? Are the horns of delusion? What does it mean when horns sprout in the head? What do they mean by that? Actualizing the teaching. Actualizing the teaching in a frisky way? In a virile way? By definition. I'm reminded, as I said, of one of the legendary kings of China, who she was set to be born.

[62:06]

Some sense of being... This is a very primitive spirit. The next case has horns, too. maybe yeah the next case is about a rhinoceros and in this case also there's a discussion of a horn being lacking so this we're talking here and this kind of talk is about how we, you know, how we remember and forget and get confused about this snake.

[63:11]

It was a snake and then it was a staff. What is it now? Yeah, what is it now? What is it for you now? Keeps changing. Okay, well, that's fine. A little abstract. What is a snake for you people now? Paper. You. You. This practice. This is all about this practice. Yeah, it's talking about this practice, right. Wow. Whoa.

[64:21]

You were just What can you say that doesn't defile it? What can you say that doesn't defile it? What can you say that doesn't defile it? That. That's what it is. I'm struck with the great compassion with it, how they meet each other, create each other, and... How they meet each other, create each other, and... Burn off each other, too.

[65:32]

They're all the same. They're all burning off your face. Yeah, there seem to be different styles of snakes to make themselves available to different styles, different awareness that people may have. What's the snake? One person may be able to approach the snake on South Mountain, the other one may see it right under their feet. And some seem to need to not use anything. To not use anything means to use anything, not necessarily use what's available, even. Whenever you see it or talk about it, you're always in the temple, flipping ass up. Yeah, you're always looking at something. So I'm wondering how useful this story is to you.

[67:25]

Or how useful it is, I guess I wonder how useful it is to me. For example, in the practice that I talked with you about in the last case, how is this term, though, snake, helpful to you in asserting your own truth and recognizing others? When I face the world and I find that I hate materialism and that awareness that I hate it, I find that I've somehow lost myself. I'm not invited to. I breathe again.

[68:26]

I've got to heal the stupid. So how does this... Greg spoke. I thought I understood him. I thought, do you understand him? Can some other people express how this turtleneck can help you meet another person? How it can help you be yourself and at the same time recognize another person? Which snake are you talking about?

[69:40]

Your truth. Which one? The one that just got bottled up? Yeah. Right. That's the one. I think you just alluded to how that snake might help you. If you don't assert your truth, nobody can eat it. The snake's not going to eat somebody who's not standing her ground. But simultaneously, by standing your ground and being eaten, you can meet another. I say that, but I want to hear from you. I wonder if you feel that way. So I'm wondering if the snake can help you live that way. In other words, the snake can help you practice what we call wall-gazing.

[70:44]

When I try to practice in that way, it seems there's no place to stand. And I understand very well why, when young men enact it, is understanding what enactment is from. And it seems, as I read it over, that the last line of the verse was, in some sense, I don't mean it exactly, but in some sense, was the final condemnation of Changqing. The cold mouth wounds people, yet they don't feel the pain. Changchun just went along too easily. It seems like the practice of this is no small manner. And almost there's no room for sobriety, no place to find it.

[71:53]

Once again, what? Almost no room for self or other. No place to find them. What did you say before that? It's OK. I thought you said something different. I'm certain you did. I'm not saying people should be afraid. But I'm not saying you are afraid, but I would say that fear is not necessarily a problem in this case. It may be that living this way, Getting used to this way of life might be a little frightening.

[72:58]

You might not feel that you're allowed to live this life. I could imagine that we would... Is that another digestive fluid of this snake? Fear? She said, is that another digestive fluid of this snake? Anger? Anger? so that things that come up additionally to sadness can be energized. Yeah. Or maybe blame. Or distrust. Motivate. Motivate? No, not motivate. Energize. Not energize. I think more like test it. Lubricate and test it. You see, in fact, I propose to you that these things are testing it all the time, and you don't understand that they're tests.

[74:04]

You think you've been distracted from the meditation. You lose your faith, and you don't think you've been practicing with the snake all week, even though you've been afraid, you've been jealous, You've been angry. You've been dispirited. You've been all those things. You thought those things weren't practicing with the snake, right? So I ask you, when you practice with the snake, you don't know if you should say yes or no. You've been sad, very sad. And maybe all these things, the sadness, the mistrust, the fear, maybe those things you could feel someplace. You can't feel the snake biting you, maybe. You don't know that you've been hurt. You think your other pains are something else, right? Does everything seem like the snake's in bad breath?

[75:09]

But the snake, the snake eats all that crap. I don't think the snake eats that stuff. I think that eating that stuff is the snake. All right. Yeah. Yeah. You're saying that misogynist is the sensation of a snake by the snake? Before I answer that question, I just want to make sure that you notice that distinction which I just made, which I don't know if it's true or anything, but I made that distinction. The snake doesn't eat this stuff. Eating this stuff is the snake. Usually we don't eat this stuff. But this is what ascension being is. In addition to also you should eat your bifurcating consciousness, you should eat the fact that you imagine things inherently exist.

[76:19]

That you eat, and you eat all the stuff that happens around it. That's what you eat. That's what is eaten. That eating is still most naked. And that's what makes a Buddha, is the eating of the sentientness. And... Eating. What do you mean by eating? Or... Braising. Destroying it. Munching it. Accepting it. You've got to get it in. Accepting it. Not seeing it as something other than your... Not seeing it as something other than your diet as a bodhisattva. Eating. You do use the same with compassion. Yeah. Now, what's your question?

[77:22]

I think I got an answer. What's the answer? Well, I was trying to make two. Trying to make two out of what? Out of this . Yeah. It's like throwing down a set. Yeah. So I... This turtleneck snake died uselessly. I don't know if we should make any more use out of it than they did. But I'm tempted to try to get you people to make some use of it. It says the turd-nosed on Salt Mountain dead has no use.

[78:23]

Yeah. Another translation is turd-nosed snake died uselessly. But, you know, it played both ways. Well, then it became a staff. So it wasn't a terminal snake anymore, but then it was the staff. I thought the staff became a terminal snake. Well, maybe. Okay, next week we will study case 25. More horns. We'll be sprouted. Also, I would refer you to... Check out where, in the past cases, where horns have been sprouted, if you can find them. Also, check out case three, where the cloud rhino gazes at the moon, and the wooden horse romps in the springtime.

[79:32]

So this cloud rhino is referred back to in the breathing practices that we talked about in case three. And now this rhino has appeared again here. And there's been a lot of horns that have been plowed in the last few days. And here's some more horns. So these motifs of rhinos and horns are coming to a point here. Yes? Go ahead. I did one of the reviews before, but I also can't keep up with it. And especially this last line in the verse, somehow that was comforting, and I didn't feel like I had to be afraid of this thing. And also, at some point last week, I said, oh, this is such a curtain. This is everywhere. This is what we are. And so that combined with this last verse,

[80:35]

Wounds people, and if they feel no pain, then you tell them, oh, this is possible. I can become this. Whatever it is. It's about like a steward or something. Show a place to stand that knows comfort. Very useful. Wow. And also, not so much, it's OK. So you don't have to be afraid of turning into a snake, but also your fear. Your fear can make you Buddha if you work with it right. You can learn how to work with your fear, if you can develop that skillful response to your fear. So how could you use your fear to let yourself be consumed? When you're afraid of another person, For example, how could that fear be something that the turtle-nosed snake will help you with?

[81:43]

It'd have to be right there. It'd have to be right there, yeah. Just let it exist. Just keep letting it exist. So your suggestion as to the way to deal with it is let it exist? Yes. OK. And how would you let it exist? Huh? Totally expressing it. Totally expressing it, yeah. I like that. Totally expressing it, you see, puts it in a category. What category of existence does totally expressing put in? Throwing the staff down. Throwing the staff down. And what category does throwing the staff put the fear in? What category does action put the fear in? Confession. What? Confession. Confession, what? Confession. Yeah, but what category of existence does that put it in? It doesn't put it in any category of existence.

[82:47]

So he started this by saying, just let it exist. But how you can let it exist? Human mind always puts things in some category of existence. Like you say, it is there. The fear is there. Terminal snake won't put up with that. Or there isn't any fear. Like, usually you walk around and say, oh, there's fear. Or there isn't any fear, right? Like right now, I don't know if you feel any fear, but if you don't feel any fear, then you say, fear belongs to not existing, right? That isn't where it belongs. And then when fear appears to you, you think, well, now fear appears in the category of it exists. That isn't where it belongs. So let it exist means let it exist like it exists. And how does it exist? It doesn't exist like it exists. It's impermanent. It's impermanent. That's what impermanence means. You can't put it in any category. That's why expressing the fear, yeah, expressing it doesn't put it in a category. It's not discriminated.

[83:50]

It's not discriminated, it's just expressed. That's, you see, if you don't do that, you're going to use your action to put it, you're going to take your action, you're going to take that thing and you're going to put it in that, or that one, or bull, or neither, or, you know, infinite other ways of categorizing fear, for example. Or anger, or doubt. All these things you're going to do something with. So, yeah, let it exist. In other words, the way to handle it is to let it be what it is. What is it? It's not any of these categories. But you won't leave it alone if you express it. Is it a matter of choice? Yep. And in fact, that is the choice you make. But you chicken out and put it in a category of existence rather than realizing you're choosing to live it. Check it out. See how it feels to express what's happening rather than, like, mess around with it.

[84:57]

Which in expressing it is the way to actually let it be. Is that the horns? What? Is that the horns? Is that the horns? Now comes the rhino. It's banned. which, fortunately for us, is broken. So don't worry. I forgot my fan tonight, too. But I hope to bring it next week. Everybody okay? Did you say moo? Moo. I know you're having a hard time with your life. Thanks for hanging in there. Everything else is okay.

[85:54]

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