The world-honored one, one day the world-honored one ascended the seat. Manjushri struck the gavel and said, clearly observe the Dharma of the King of Dharma. The Dharma of the King of Dharma is thus. and the World Honored One got down from the seat. Okay, do you have that in your mind, what happened? Can you say it back? One day, say it. One day, the World Honored One ascended the seat. Manjushri struck the gavel and said, clearly observed, The Dharma of the Dharma King is thus.

[01:04]

The World Honored One got down from the seat. Can you do it now? All right, just try to say it. Clearly observe the Dharma of the King of Dharma. The Dharma of the King of Dharma is thus. Clearly observe the Dharma of the King of Dharma. The Dharma of the King of Dharma is thus. Okay? That's the case. It's the first case. Do you know how this book is constructed? Have you heard about that? Did I tell you? You mean that the first one is Shakyamuni Buddha? No. In terms of how the book was put together.

[02:05]

Did I tell you about that? Well, I think it's traditional in India and I think maybe also in China before Buddhism even. that when they have a source text, a source teaching, and then sometimes people collect, they have a source teaching and then people write commentaries on it, or oftentimes verses to celebrate whatever it is. And then sometimes people gather together various teachings and write verses on them and put them together into a book. So by this time, when this book was compiled, is the eleventh century, and by this time this tradition is very well established of collecting teachings and writing verses.

[03:13]

This is a Zen teacher, Soto Zen teacher. Do you know his name, the name of the compiler of this book? He's the commentator. So, have you heard of the name Dogen Zenji? Do you know that name? Right. We say that name in morning service. Right? Our original teacher in India, Shakyamuni Buddha, our first teacher in China, Bodhidharma, our first teacher in Japan. Okay, so his teacher is Tien Tung Ru Jing.

[04:19]

And then two generations before that, the person who was the abbot of that monastery called Tien Tung was Tien Tung Hung Ger. And this Tien Tung Hung Ger, who was the abbot of that monastery and also a great writer and Zen teacher, he collected together his favorite 100 stories, Zen stories, And then he wrote a verse for each one. And then that is a collection, which is basically called tsung rung lu, as in tsung rung an lu. Tsung rung means serenity or tranquility, and an means hermitage, and lu means collection. So there was this, during his lifetime he made this collection of stories, a hundred stories, his favorite I guess, and wrote verses for them and he named the book, or the book was named after his hermitage, which was called the Hermitage of Serenity.

[05:29]

So it was the collection or the book of the Hermitage of Serenity. about 50 to 75 years later another Zen teacher came along and wrote an introduction to each case of this collection and commented on each case and then wrote a commentary on the verse. So then the book got two or three times or four times as big and the title got longer but in popular use, it's just called Songrong Lu, the Book of Serenity, or the Collection of Serenity, or Tranquility. They spell Songrong. Songrong? How do you Romanize it, you mean? Yeah. S-T-S-U-N-G-R-U-N-G-L-U. Songrong means serenity.

[06:31]

Lu means collection. The Blue Cliff record's called the Biyun Lu. So this way of construction is exactly the same as the way the Blue Cliff record is constructed. There was a Zen master named Suidu. He collected his hundred favorite stories, wrote a hundred verses, and that became a collection. Then later, another monk came along named Muran Wu. He wrote an introduction to each case, almost each case, and then a commentary on this case, and then a commentary on the verse. And also, another thing is that They also, both this commentator named Wan Sung and also the commentator Yuran Wu, they, so like, for this first case, gavel and said, clearly observe the Dharma of the King of Dharma. The Dharma of the King of Dharma is thus, and the abrupt comment is, I don't know what's going on in his mind.

[07:33]

The world's honored one then got down from the seat. Deal again another day is the abrupt comment. So that's another Chinese style. If you have a teaching, you do a line of the teaching and then comment on that line. Line of the teaching, comment on the line. Line of the teaching, comment on the line. They do that with sutras, like the Diamond Sutra, the Sixth Patriarch, Comment of the Diamond Sutra, like that. Line of the Diamond Sutra, comment. Line of the Diamond Sutra, comment. Short comments. Usually about the same one or two sentences. In this case, it's usually one sentence. So that's how the book is built. It's built the same way as the Blue Cliff Record. Pardon? Why? I think because Suedu lived on Blue Cliff. That's usually what they do. They name the book after the place where they wrote it. And a lot of Zen teachers, when they retire, they do this kind of thing.

[08:38]

And they go off into some cave or some hermitage and write in their later years. And this is one of the common things they would do is write little commentaries on koan collections. There was in the room that the guy who looked back there, on the wall there was a character, which in the room was known for, which was Blue Clip or something. That's kind of what, which might have been also the name of him. The commentator, however, the original text of the collection, of course, there are collection stories from, there's a vast collection of Zen stories, and then selecting a hundred from millions of stories, selecting a hundred favorite, and then writing the verse, and this was written, this was a literary event. However, the commentary was spoken, so the person who was commenting took this text and

[09:43]

And then he was talking to his monks, and he gave this talk, and his monks wrote down what he said. And the same with the Blue Cliff Record. The first phase was a literary effort. The poetry was literary. And then the Zen teacher took that text and used it as a basis to explain and lecture to his monks, and his monks wrote it down. As a matter of fact, the Blue Cliff record was burned by the teacher when he found out that it had been constructed, but somebody saved a copy. By the teacher who did the commentary. Why did he do that? Because he knew it was the commentary? Well, I'm not sure if it was done by the teacher who did the commentary. I think it was done by the disciple of the person who did the commentary. The disciple of the person who did the commentary burned it, but somebody, some other disciples salvaged some other, had some other text hidden away or something.

[10:50]

The main disciple felt that the teacher explained too well, didn't talk too much about what it was about, so he wanted to destroy it to protect people from having some... So that's how the book was built. Does that make sense? Okay, so here's the, that's the verse, I mean that's the case, and here's the verse. The unique breeze of reality. Do you see? Continuously creation runs her loom and shuttle, weaving the ancient brocade, incorporating the forms of spring. But nothing can be done about Manjushri's leaking. This is the first case of this collection, and it is the 92nd case of the Blue Cliff Record. The Blue Cliff Record was written a little bit before this, and I think that the commentator of this had read the Blue Cliff Record.

[11:57]

I'm not sure. Wait a minute. The compiler might have read the Blue Cliff Record even. But whether he did or not, anyway, in the Blue Cliff Record, they strongly criticize Manjushri for what he did. And this text, in the verse, the person writing the verse says, but nothing can be done about Manjushri's leaking. So in some senses, there's two or three main points in this case. One point is that the Dharma of the King of Dharma is thus. That's kind of the obvious teaching. And it's true, too. I mean, it's true that the teaching of Buddha is thus. Not this, but thus.

[13:02]

That's... Yeah, that's the... superficial but important message of this case. And this is the first case of this collection. So in some sense that is the most important teaching of Soto Zen. That the teaching of the king of Dharma is thus. Okay? So that's sort of the essential, obvious meaning of this case. Any questions about that? Do you understand the difference between the teaching of the Buddha is this, as opposed to the teaching of Buddha is thus? You don't see the difference in that?

[14:09]

Do you feel the difference in it? I wouldn't think so. Do you sense the difference, Deities, even though you don't quite understand what the difference is? Yeah, right, thus is more vague. Well, not necessarily vague, but more comprehensive. If you say this, even if you don't point with your finger, if you say this, there would be some implication. Even if you didn't mean it, people would draw some inference that when you said this, you meant this room, or this day, or this minute, or this place, or this practice, or this word I'm saying. People would think that. And in that sense, the teaching would be defiled. So, one of the most important Zen stories is a dialogue between the Sixth Patriarch, and I told you about last night, he has these two great disciples, and one of his disciples is named Nanyue Huairang, the other one's Seigen Yoshi, Qingyuan Xingzi,

[15:36]

Okay? So the Nanyue, the guy who Rinzai, the Rinzai lineage came from, who Matsu came from, are you following these names at all? Master Ma, remember last night Master Ma? He's the sixth, he's the Matsu, yeah. Matsu, yeah. So Master Ma... Ma means horse and Su means master. Master Ma, Matsu, his teacher was Nanyue Huairang. So when Nanyue came to the sixth patriarch, the sixth patriarch said, where do you come from? He says, I come from Matsu or Matsun. And then the sixth patriarch said, what is it that thus comes? And Nanyue says, to say it's this would already miss the point.

[16:44]

The teacher said, what is it that thus comes? He didn't say, what is this that comes? Or what is it that this comes? He said, what is it that thus comes? Thus comes, by the way, is a name for Buddha. Tathagata means thus come. So he said, what is it that thus comes? What is the Tathagata? But also, what is it that has come here before me now? Who are you? So he said, who are you? But he also said, what is Buddha? What is the Tathagata? And he says, to say it's this would miss the point. And then the Sixth Patriarch says, well, does that mean that there's no practice or realization? no practice or transformation. And Huay Rang said, I don't say that there is no practice in realization. I only say that it cannot be defiled.

[17:49]

And Sixth Patriarch said, basically, great. He didn't say great, but he was very happy. And he said, this... undefiled way is practiced by all Buddhas. Now I am thus and you are thus too. So from that story of you can't say it's this, but that doesn't mean you don't mean that there is a practice and there is transformation. But just you don't defile it by saying it's this. You don't defile it by pointing at it with your words or thoughts or physical gestures. But still, the teaching of the Buddha is thus. And the Buddha is called the Thus Come One. Manjushri said, thus is this.

[18:54]

Yeah, so Manjushri, but Manjushri said thus is this. Or he said this is thus. You heard about thus? This is it. He said the teaching of the Buddha is thus, but he pointed So he was criticized for indicating that the teaching of Buddha is thus, but by pointing to this occasion and this action of Buddha as thus. In other words, saying thus is this, or this is thus. And therefore in the Blue Cliff Record he was criticized for this, and they said he went to hell for this. which, you know, you don't have to worry about Manjushri and how he can take care of himself. As a matter of fact, it's probably good that he went there because people there could use his help. But it doesn't say that he pointed. But he did. The striking the gavel? No, striking the gavel wasn't pointing.

[19:57]

He could have struck the gavel and just walked off. He could have lit a match. He said something. He didn't just say something. He said it at a certain time. He said, clearly observed, that's okay too. He couldn't just start the gavel and say, clearly observed, and it walked off. That would have been fine too. He wouldn't have leaked. So the this is clearly observed, the Dharma is thus. The Buddha got up there, right? Then he said, clearly observed. He said, the Dharma, the guy who got up there, his Dharma is thus. Even though he said thus, there was a kind of this, there was a kind of pointing in what he did. So the main thrust is the simple teaching that the way of the Buddha is undefiled, the way of thus is undefiled. However, in this case, Manjushri pointed to thus. In other words, he defiled it. And when you defile something, then you leak.

[20:59]

So he leaked. The Blue Cliff record was very critical of him. And they said if someone who was on the ball had been there, then Shakyamuni Buddha wouldn't have had to go through this messy stuff of holding up the flower later and getting Mahakasyapa to smile and so on. Otherwise, if Manjushri would have shut up, all the Buddha would ever have to do was just get up and sit there and then leave. Everybody would get the suchness without anybody pointing at it. The main text is the teaching is suchness or thusness, and it's undefiled by this, by pointing at what the path is. However, the great bodhisattva Manjushri pointed at it and leaked. So the subtext for this case is that Manjushri leaked. And the subtext, again, is that in this tradition, besides indicating the teaching of suchness, the second thing that's indicated is that you shouldn't point at the teaching of suchness.

[22:13]

Now, most people don't have to worry about that, but as soon as they find out about the teaching of suchness, they might start pointing at it or saying, where is it? And it is traditional not to directly indicate what it is. And of course you can't, but at the same time you can. Because, in fact, by pointing at anything, you indicate it. Isn't this from the Avatamsaka Sutra? And that phrase, too, not to clearly observe, but the phrase, the Dharma of the King of Dharma is thus, is from the Avatamsaka Sutra. But was it leaking there? No. No, because if you just say, the Dharma of the Dharma King is thus, there's not much problem. If the Dharma King just got up in the seat, or if the Dharma King was just skipping a rope, or if the Dharma King was having lunch, or if the Dharma King said, boo, and then you said, then you're sort of pointing, it's a pretty strong indication, pretty direct.

[23:20]

Just to walk along the street and go up to somebody on the street and say, the Dharma of the Dharma King is thus, and walk off, that's not much of a problem. Maybe a little leakage. And another sub... So that's the main message and the sub-message. And this guy says, but nothing can be done about Manjushri's leaking. In other words, although we recommend not pointing, in fact, Manjushri had to point to show what pointing does and that it's a mistake. So I think somebody pointed out that he played the role of Judas, that without Judas pointing out Christ, the whole function of Jesus wouldn't have been quite as dramatic, and a lot of people wouldn't be able to get it. So in some sense, Manjushri crucified Buddha, crucified the Buddha's teaching by doing this.

[24:26]

Anyway, it seems to be necessary. But we should understand that strictly speaking it's better not to intagate, and that strictly speaking it's better not to say anything. That's why Buddha, generally speaking, will not speak unless asked three times. because it's better not to say anything. And basically Buddha's basic message is he can't talk, like I said last night. Can't stand up, can't sit down, can't walk, and can't talk. The five basic activities he can't do. He's like a baby. He can talk and make sound, but really it's just babble. However, when forced to talk, the Buddha speaks with one voice and everybody understands. But that's a compromise. What he says, although it's very skillful, it's not as much to the point as not saying anything at all. So he just gets up in the seat.

[25:32]

That's easy. He gets down. Manjushri indicated. And he leaked. And this commentary says there's nothing can be done about it because we needed Manjushri to do that. Okay? Okay? The other part of the verse, the unique breeze of reality, do you see it? The unique breeze of reality is thus. The unique breeze of reality is always thus. That's always what it is. There's just one breeze of reality and it's always the same thing. Namely, it's what's happening. And it has a particular quality all the time. And can you see it? At the same time, creation is constantly working her loom and shuttle, incorporating the patterns of spring into the ancient brocade. The ancient brocade is the history of the universe.

[26:33]

And creation is always making a new pattern and incorporating it into the ancient brocade. And in this new pattern of spring, in this pattern, is the opportunity for thusness to be demonstrated or to be realized now. And the next moment creation incorporates a new pattern, the next moment a new pattern. So always a new suchness is coming up and we're always looking to see the unique breeze. Without in our own mind or with our own voice or with our own hands pointing at it, if possible, Pointing tends to grasp this, say it's not that. Yeah. Yep. And also pointing is hard on the person who's pointing too. It disturbs their mind a little bit.

[27:35]

Because pointing, you tend to fall into seeing objects. Which again, you can do that once in a while, but if you keep doing it over and over, you start getting weak and your practice... becomes drained of its spiritual energy. So it's better not to do it if possible. However, as we say here, Manjushri had to do it. He got in big trouble for it, but he survived. He went on to do more and more interesting things later. That's right. And that's another point. So the The word clearly observed is two Chinese characters, and the first character, which means clearly observed, together they mean clearly observed, but separately it's interesting because separately the first character means to abandon or to resign or to give up.

[28:38]

So it's a kind of observing where you've given up or abandoned something. It's vision which is a kind of giving up or resigning, which is very similar to not obscuring cause and effect. Very similar instruction. It's seeing instead of looking for. It's seeing without any objects. It's knowing without touching things, like we were talking about during Sashin. Is thusness sort of the same thing as isness? Is thusness the same as isness? Thusness is total being, which includes all the different possibilities of being, but without grasping any of them. Thusness is the interconnectedness of all being.

[29:47]

and it is the nature of all the beings that are interconnected. So thusness is emptiness, but not just emptiness. It's also the things that are empty, because there's no emptiness floating around without things, and it's also the interconnectedness of all the things, and the interconnectedness of all the things is what makes the things all empty. So all that big jumbled mess of empty things all connected, that's thusness. And look for me in there too. Okay, that's the first case. Is that enough on that one for now? I've spent maybe a year on the first case sometimes, just studying that first case. It's endless. But for now, that's enough, maybe. Second case is Bodhidharma's emptiness.

[30:49]

jumping 28 generations to this Bodhidharma. So this case, this is a short version here. The emperor of Liang asked Bodhidharma, what is the highest meaning of the holy truths? Bodhidharma said, there is no holy The emperor said, who are you facing me? Bodhidharma said, don't know. The emperor didn't understand, and Bodhidharma subsequently crossed the Yangtze River and came to Shaolin and faced the wall for nine years. Okay, so that's the second story in this case, in this collection. It is the first story in the Blue Cliff Records. Now, I proposed to you that in this story we have now Bodhidharma behaving in a stricter fashion.

[32:04]

He didn't leak in this case. So he shows sort of, he does sort of a perfect, he gets almost a 10, maybe a 9.9 on this one, 9.9. He does better than Manjushri in a way. Now on the Blue Cliff record, they wanted to show body diameter first, they wanted to show the good performance first, and they showed the slightly off weight 92 cases later. But Sato Zen wants to, or this Sato Zen teacher wants to show the teaching of thusness first. He wants to feature that first, before showing any perfect performances, because the teaching of thusness is more important than perfect performances. As a matter of fact, he shows the most important teaching, and then he shows a little bit of a flop right away. So it's another quality of Soto Zen is it doesn't start out, it doesn't usually present the perfect finished product, it more shows something that's somewhat defected.

[33:15]

Or defected. If there's such a word. Defective. Defective, yeah. Shows a defective model. gives the correct teaching, you know, it gives the Cadillac of teachings, or the Mercedes, or the Rolls-Royce of teachings, or the Toyota of teachings, depending on your point of view. Anyway, it gives the finest teaching, and then, but a defective model of the finest teaching. Yes? Why? Why does it have that approach? I think that, because, I think Soto Zen emphasizes the ordinariness of the way a little bit more, or the everydayness of it. And every day, you know, we're kind of defective models. It's like reaching the ultimate, but we let go of it and just become defective with everybody else.

[34:27]

And really Rinzai, and all Buddhists are that way, but The Rinzai people in that collection of the Blue Cliff Records start out with this dazzling Bodhidharma example, and then later they point out that really we let go of these wonderful examples, these ultimate examples of behavior, and, you know, are willing to hang out with people who've got problems and have no advantage over them. But as far as the emblematic presentation, The Rinzai style presents a more dramatic and dazzling picture. The Soto Zen presents or prevents this, in some sense, all that may not look, it looks kind of fancy and dignified, and it is, but it's got a defect in it. Namely, the Prince of Dharma's conduct is not so good. In the second case they present the dazzling story of Bodhidharma, the perfect performance.

[35:36]

Or he doesn't give the emperor anything, he doesn't take anything from the emperor, it's just an encounter of suchness and nobody gets anything or learns anything and the emperor just doesn't get it and Bodhidharma walks off and faces the wall for nine years. And again, wall-facing means he faced the wall, but also means he sat in objectless awareness for nine years. He's acting sort of like a Buddha. Yeah. Well, I'm not too sure he's acting more like a Bodhisattva, trying to help out, stumbling around. Yeah, right. In this case, Bodhidharma acted more like a Buddha. Again, this is a case which we could spend a lot of time on.

[36:43]

Is there anything you would like to discuss before we go on? But do you have any questions besides the number of cases to go, like the second case? What are the short comments on this? Are there short comments? Yeah. The short comments are, Emperor Wu asked Bodhidharma, the short comment, the abrupt comment is, even getting up at the crack of dawn, he never made a profit at the market.

[37:50]

One meaning of that is that the emperor, the Chinese emperor, had court at the crack of dawn, which I always thought was kind of good practice because the emperor of China spent his evenings with, you know, thousands of courtesans, just him and his huge harem. I imagine partying sometimes. But he had to get up the next morning at the crack of dawn and face the most intelligent, dynamic people in China you know, get up at the crack of dawn, there's Bodhidharma, right? So you better go to bed early. And, you know, don't drink too much. So at the crack of dawn, getting up at the crack of dawn, he never made a profit at the market. He asked Bodhidharma, what is the highest meaning of the holy truths? For the time being, turn to the secondary to ask.

[39:06]

Empty, no holy, splits his guts and gouges out his heart. Who are you facing me? He finds tusks in the nostrils. Don't know. And then it's in quotes. If you see jowls from behind the head, dot, dot, dot, The emperor didn't understand. A square peg doesn't fit in a round hole. Put his arm across the river, came to Shaolin and faced the wall for nine years. A house with no surplus goods doesn't prosper. Now are you happy? Yeah. Well, that was a different question.

[40:15]

Elephants, in a sense, have tusks coming out of their nostrils while their nose comes before. They sort of have tusks coming out of the urine. Found an elephant. And he wants to find out if you see the jowls from behind his head, that's an allusion to some kind of quote, but if you look at some people from the back of the head, you can see their jowls, right? In other words, you can see the front of their face from the back. That's a Chinese allusion, which I don't know. Yeah. What's the thing about when a person turns his head and what was that? You can see it. Look at that.

[41:18]

Is that striking? I can't remember where it came from, but it had to do with seeing the back of the head and the front at the same time. one time I've told this story many times but it comes up here again in this case is that one time we got new robes and they were The way that you tied them was different from the way we tied the robes which we originally received. And we asked Suzuki Roshi how to put these new robes on. And he walked off. And then we said to Katagiri Roshi, how do you put these robes on?

[42:24]

And he started to explain to us how to put them on. And then one of us noticed that Suzuki Roshi was over in the corner of the room putting the robe on. So in this case, Bodhidharma is being questioned by the emperor. The emperor doesn't get it. So Bodhidharma walks off and sits facing a wall. The way that Bodhidharma was talking to the emperor was exactly the same as him sitting facing a wall. The same instruction. But in one case it's verbal, in one case it's speech, in the other case it's the body. But sitting facing a wall is the physical representation of don't know.

[43:26]

Don't know is an instruction, a meditation instruction. Sitting facing a wall is a meditation instruction. But facing a wall, he did actually supposedly face a wall, but the type of meditation he was doing was called wall facing. But wall facing doesn't mean he was looking at the wall. It means his mind was a wall. In other words, he had the mind of a wall. In other words, don't know. So the emperor didn't get it, And then he showed him again. For nine years he showed him. But he also showed us. So this story shows the basic Zen practice, which is called don't know. That's a Korean, just don't know. Yeah, right. It's don't know, but it's particularly don't know in sitting cross-legged with your back straight.

[44:32]

It's that kind of don't know. It's primarily physical. and silent. So it's a silent still don't know. So here in the second story we have another layer of instruction in the practice. And the highest teaching is empty and vast and there's no holy about it. In other words, over and above Thusness, there's no holy tacked on to it. So we say no holy. The highest teaching, no holy. The highest practice, no holy. And vast emptiness. It's a wonderful teaching, but it's empty. Don't think that you can get a hold of it. And if you want to know what the content of it is, you don't know. And if you want to know what it looks like, it looks like sitting. Not

[45:34]

not having objects. So that's the message of the second story. Anything more on the second story? Okay. Since you don't want it, I'll just tell you one more thing about the second story, and that is, I already did tell you that it's also case 92 of the Blue Cliff Records, so you can read... Oh, excuse me. It's the first, right? The second is the first. What was I going to say? Oh, and the first case of Lukifrek has a little longer version of this, of this interchange.

[46:43]

After Bodhidharma left, the emperor's chaplain, so to speak, said to the emperor, do you know who that was? And the emperor said, no, who was it? And the chaplain said, That was Avalokiteshvara, bodhisattva of infinite compassion. And the emperor said, well, in that case, can we get him back? And the chaplain said, if you sent everybody in your kingdom, you wouldn't be able to get this guy back. So the emperor was kind of sad about that and wrote a little poem about what he missed. But this point of compassion is not brought up in this story, in this book so much. So another point here, and I've often asked people to think about how such behavior is infinite compassion.

[47:46]

But that's the proposal here, and I'll go for it myself. I feel this is really infinite compassion. And if you teach like this guy did, you'll be just fine and you won't get pooped. You'll be able to continue your work pretty well. And there's other kinds of compassion which are fine, but you, you know, you make it tired out and have to take vacations every few minutes. Like, I'm not too sure. Yeah. Well, at least in that story. Yeah. Manjushri's wisdom got sharper and sharper until his wisdom got so sharp that his compassion got infinite. And the highest meaning of the holy truths is, one way to look at it is, there's two truths in Buddhism.

[48:55]

One truth is that everything is empty. And another truth is that things are not non-existent. Those two truths. And there's a highest truth is that these two truths are inseparable. So the emperors, and the emperor already knew about this. He was a very bright guy. So he thought he'd ask Bodhidharma, tough question, what is the meaning of this inseparability of these two levels of truth, namely the emptiness of things, and also that even though things are empty, they're not non-existent. What is the meaning of this highest meaning of the truths? And Bodhidharma says, vast emptiness, no holy. Okay.

[50:01]

And you don't have a copy of the second case, but we'll get you one, and you can read it. In the verse, what's the milky way thin the dipper hangs down its handle in the night? What is it? What's the significance of that? What's the significance of the milky way thin? What's that thing analogous to? So it was kind of referenced. Well, this guy, so you have to think about this now. Is the Milky Way thin? Doesn't that depend how you look at it? Yeah. You could say yes, you could say no. Yes, you could say yes, you could say no. But for somebody who doesn't know how thick recent astronomical information has told us the Milky Way is, does it look thin? It does to many people. Yeah, it looks kind of milky. It's kind of like a thin little layer there.

[51:02]

Now, maybe the Chinese already knew that the Milky Way was thick. I don't know. But... Let's see this guy. The milky way thin, the dipper hangs down its handle in the night. So does a dipper hang down its handle in the night? Yeah. It might. Sometimes. Sometimes. Right. So it's got this filming milky way up there with a dipper hanging down its handle in the night. So you're wondering why did he say that? Is it like a form and a thing? It's kind of an analogy? How would you see it, the form and emptiness analogy? Well, maybe the thinness is kind of, or the universe, the Milky Way is emptiness or something.

[52:05]

I don't know. And maybe the deeper is... Yeah, well, talk it out a little bit. Without figuring out where it comes in there. That's true, isn't it, about the Milky Way? The Milky Way is actually, the milkiness is actually because there's so many stars, right? What you're seeing as milky is just tons of stars that you can't see as separate stars, right? The very fact that there's so many stars is what makes it look kind of thin and filmy and not much to it. And that's like emptiness. The reason why things are emptiness is not because there's nothing to them. It's because there's so much to them. that there's so much to things, in other words, so much contributes to each thing, that each thing doesn't need to be anything in itself. Everything's really insubstantial because in one sense it lacked its own inherent existence, but also the reason why it lacked its own inherent existence is that it's totally packed with things that aren't it, that itself can't fit in there.

[53:15]

It's already jam-packed full of everything else. Like the Milky Way. I mean, it's amazing, isn't it? And here you're looking at something which is not only a star, but untold number of stars. And because it's so many, if it was just a few stars, you might be able to see a star here or there. As a matter of fact, you can see a few stars up there. But because there's so many, It looks thin. So you could see that, I don't know if they knew this, but you could see that the filminess of the Milky Way is its emptiness due to its causation. But the appearance of form is like with the dipper. You can see the individual stars. You can see the individual stars. You can see a thing called the dipper, an apparent form. And the reason why you can see that is because you haven't yet taken into account all that makes the dipper. If you understand all that makes the dipper, the dipper will get very thin and filmy too. So that's a good guess, is that the Milky Way and the dipper are like form and emptiness.

[54:23]

In the sense that emptiness appears as you get more information, as you can see more information. and form appears when you haven't really thoroughly studied something yet and you're just taking a first impression of it and haven't looked at all that's making it. So then you seem to be able to hold on to the thing in itself. But as you learn more and more about things, you realize that there's no thing. Just like as you learn more and more about a person, Although you may love them more and more, the more you learn about them, the more mysterious they become, the more, yeah, ungraspable. Now why would they, so why would they put that in there? Clear moon in August, in succession of robe and bowl. Yeah. What's the phrasing again?

[55:27]

I don't have a book. Well, he says, still in silence, coolly, he sat at Shaolin. In silence, he completely brought out the true imperative. Just like, again, he asks the Guruji how to put the robe on, he goes and puts the robe on, he shows you. So he is showing, he's bringing out the true implication, the true instructions being shown without him saying a word. And then he says, the clear moon of autumn turns its frosty disc. Which, you know. Then we have Milky Way thin, dipper hangs down its handle in the night. In succession of robe and bowl have been imparted to descendants. From this, humans and divines have the medicine and disease. Yeah, those three lines.

[56:43]

Just be... It needs to support expression. Or also, what you see in a moment is not just what you see, but is also you seeing it. So the frosty disk, the autumn moon turning its frosty disk could be the observer. What if the observer's doing the turning? Is it the observer doing the turning? Yeah, it could be the observer turning and the observer's up in the sky with the Milky Way and the disk, and then the dipper. In the succession of robe and bowl have been imparted to descendants. In succession, robe and bowl have been imparted to descendants."

[57:59]

And also the disk, the autumn moon turning its frosty disk in a milky way and the dipper, all that is the situation of the succession of robe and bowl. The succession is the man's progression. The succession is this man's progression. Also, this is a poem, so we have endless resources here. A lot's coming together on the poem too. There's a kind of tremendous focus in the poem itself and lots of Chinese literary traditions coming down on this guy. He was quite a literary person. If we look at the characters too, we may find lots more information about these poems.

[59:14]

So it's time to stop, I guess, huh?

[59:18]

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