Okay, so there's some new people here, so I want to, you know, create a context for this study of these stories. So, you know, they're just stories, and... But they're... Like everything that appears in the world, these stories are... I mean, they have some real... They have some potential function. And in a sense, they're like... You could say they're like sharp swords. Or, you know, powerful explosives. Or... you know, wild Siberian tigers in the prime of life.

[01:03]

Or they're like our parents, or like our children, or like our spouses. They're like forces of nature, these stories. They came up out of the earth, into human beings, out human beings' bodies and minds. They were particularly stories about particularly powerful events in people's lives. And they were written down because they were so strong. So now we have these stories. And so there's a potential here to get hurt by these stories. You can get hurt by, you know, leaving them alone. You can get hurt by grabbing them unskillfully. Now, the way a lot of people grab these stories is they grab them by saying, you know, I don't understand them. They're too hard. Some people grab them by saying, I understand them, this is the way I understand them. But how to grasp something that has this kind of potential with skill is the real issue.

[02:10]

And I've also mentioned to you that the word in Buddhism that we often use for wholesomeness or skillfulness, kushala, comes from the word kusa, which means the kind of grass that Buddha used to make his meditation seat. And as he suggested his monks make their meditation seats out of this grass. This grass is like pompous grass and it has a sharp edge. You cut your hand on it. So the ability to collect this grass skillfully is called kushala. And so to skillfully handle a material of our lives is the foundation for study. And again, as I said, like, when you were first born, you know, you met your parents, and right off you were kind of

[03:26]

you know, I don't know. For a little while there, you're kind of like, you know, hi, hi, mom. Gradually, some of us developed some strong habits in our relationship with our mother and father. Originally, we just sort of said, you know, like I said, oh, look, there's somebody, you know, I don't know what. Gradually, we decided, you know, this person performs this function in my life, and I want them to do this, and I want them to do that, and they want me to do this. We get into these very unhealthy relationships, unskillful relationships with our parents, most of us. And then also, then when we met our lovers and friends, we also got into some unskillful patterns. And then when we had children, we also developed some unskillful patterns. And the basic unskillful way of handling things is, you know, called attachment. And so the basic attachment is based on the fact that when something happens, like some form appears, we have some kind of experience, we attribute some reality to it.

[04:49]

We segment the whole field of experience into some limited story, and then we attribute reality to it, and we grasp that reality which we set up, and then we have unskillful relationships based on that. So the basic skillful relationship with things is one of non-attachment, or you could say non-involvement. And again, when I say non-involvement, you know, like sometimes I used to do workshops with Brother David and I would say things like, you know, the proper relationship with beings is non-involvement. And he would try to tell people, that's not really what I meant. He doesn't really mean that. What he means is to be really kind and loving to beings. That's right. Thank you, Brother David. But the way to be kind and loving is not to be involved with them.

[05:53]

People think that kind and loving is to be attached and manipulative. I'm manipulating you for your own good. I'm pushing you around and coercing you into this because I know it's best for you. And what you're doing is not good, so I'm stopping you from making a mistake. This is because I love you. This is called love for most people. Then we developed that relationship from early on. But to develop a non-involved relationship doesn't mean you say, well, I'm not involved with you, goodbye. It's to be close to somebody, to be with them, to be intimate. That's non-involvement. To be in an intimate dance without controlling, for trying to control or run away, without copping out or taking control. So a lot of people can study these koans and have no manipulative attitude towards them by just not ever coming near them, not reading them, not thinking about them, no problem.

[06:56]

But to be intimate with these koans requires some effort, and to make some effort in something, when we start to make effort, then we start to become possessive. Even something like, I don't know what, Buddhism, when you first came to Buddhism, you didn't think you owned it, right? But as you study it year after year, you know, put in thousands and thousands of hours of meditation and study, there's a tendency to think after a while, after ten, twenty, thirty years of study, you think you own Buddhism. Isn't that funny? Could somebody possibly do that? Or if not Buddhism, certainly a Zen center. You know? But the people who come here, most people, most reasonable people, they come here on one Sunday or something, they don't think they own Zen center. But if they come a hundred Sundays, they think they do. Maybe. Maybe. So how can you, if you don't get intimate with these koans, if you don't put any energy into them, if you don't think about them, if you don't study them, if you don't take this class for 10 years, you probably won't get overly attached to them. But if you put energy into them, you'll tend to become possessive or adhere to something.

[08:00]

It's hard to hang out with them for a long time without settling into some fixed position. You can put up with it for a few minutes or a few hours or a few days, but year after year, story after story, not getting involved is not easy. But that's the way to understand these stories, and that's the way to relate to your parents, your children, and your lovers, to be close and not get attached. These koans won't get hurt if you attach to them. It's OK. They won't get hurt. If your form of attachment is that you run away from them and reject them and call them stupid and a waste of time, it won't bother them. So it's okay, you can try out all your unskillfulness and the cons and they'll survive. So it's a good place to learn to cut yourself and learn the improper ways to grasp these stories. And to learn how you overlay reality on phenomena, on stories.

[09:02]

Stories arise. When a story first arises, like when you first make up a story, if you make up a story, you first pick it up, you know it's a story. You just made it up. But as you tell it over and over, gradually you start to believe the story. After a few years, you forget which story you made up and which one was really true. The one that's really true is the one that you forgot that you made up. Or that you never knew you made up. But if you're there when you create the story, and all stories you ever hear are stories you created, you can never hear a story that somebody else made up. Because even if I tell you a story, when you hear it and you've got it, you made up your version of what I said to you. If you lose track of that, then you think you did or did not understand the story. If you think you did, then you think that's a true story. If you think you didn't, you don't think it's true. You're just a little unfuzzy. But when you get it, That's your story, but you made it up, and if you lose track of that, you think it's real.

[10:06]

So these stories are exercises in catching yourself and attributing reality to stories. We do the same thing all day long. This is a class or a workshop in catching yourself at that, of noticing, you know, when you haven't done it yet, when you can't do it yet, and then when you succeed, and then how you grasp it. So, we have the ability to experience the arising of events, the arising of stories, and that in itself, just the direct experience of the arising of creation, is enlightened relationship. We also have the ability to project reality onto these things that arise in our life, to project and imagine substantial existence to something which is creation, and that's our suffering. This ability to project reality on things is constantly with us.

[11:15]

It's a basic ability of our mind. To keep those separate, not to keep those separate, but the separation of those two, which is always the case too, is, you know, mastery. It's understanding. It's liberation and bliss. So we don't do a lobotomy on ourselves and stop ourselves, take away our ability to imagine, to create, and we don't take our ability to project reality all over the place. Both of these things are natural abilities of our mind, but they actually never really do overlap in reality. We just confuse them. When they're confused, we suffer. When we see that they're separated, we're free. And sometimes when they're like this, overlapping, and we're suffering, if you could just turn to the side, just turn to the side, you could see that they're separated. You just get around and look at yourself sideways.

[12:19]

Or if things can just pivot and you can see, oh, this is the story, and this is my, this is the story, you know, the story of like, this is the story of how you were mean to me, how you were disrespectful, and this is the projection of reality onto it. Now if I go like this, now you're in big trouble and so am I. Because now you should be punished for what you did to me. Because this is a story of your cruelty to me, your disrespect, and it's true. If I turn it sideways, I say, oh, there's the truth of it, and there's just a story. And that's all it is, is a story. And I can laugh. And so can you. You're safe. I don't believe these bad stories about you. However, that also means that the good stories about you also I won't believe. So, some people would rather have, even for the danger of having the bad stories and with the projection, and still get the good story with the projection, they'll take that. But if you go over this enough times, pretty soon you realize it isn't worth it.

[13:22]

And this way actually is quite nice. You just don't have this belief in your own goodness and your belief in the reality of the goodness of others. What you have the belief in or the witnessing of is the incredible beauty of the creation of other beings. They're beyond good and bad, actually, which is a pretty good trade-off. Although you miss that old-time substantial reality. Sorry. Okay, so that's kind of like, that's my introduction to this study. Does it make sense to you? So, what do you call it? You're on your own, what is it, your own reconnaissance, is that how you say it? Recognissance. You're on your own reconnaissance. Now see if you can keep track of how you create the world, how your mind creates the world, and whether you do or do not attribute reality to it. Okay?

[14:24]

And here's a copy of Case 51 for anybody who needs it. How many people have your own book? Yeah, so I think I have enough copies here. This and believe. I'll show it to you. They have a text, a copy of the text now. Are there any extra copies? Got some extra ones? Will you give them to me later? Okay, so here's the text. The case is the story, right? So the case is Fa Yun. Fa Yun means Dharma Eye.

[15:26]

Famous Zen master from the Tang Dynasty. Tang Dynasty is... a long dynastic period in China, which goes from about 618 to 916, or something like that, about 300 years, which is in some ways considered to be the golden age of Chinese history and the golden age of Zen. And the great classics, Zen stories, most of them originated in this 300-year period. among apparently, you know, millions of practitioners, millions, millions of Zen practitioners probably lived during that 300 years. So it was an incredibly rich period of Buddhist fun. And, uh, A lot of rough things happened during the time in terms of government and wars and stuff, but the practice seemed to thrive whenever the world got rough.

[16:37]

And this is one of these stories between the great master Fa Yan and another noted Zen monk named the Elder Zhao. Usually when there's a name in these stories, it means that the person is a known, figure in Zen history. So he has probably other stories of Jiao listed in the history books. So these are two noted disciples of Buddha. So Fa Yuan asked Elder Jiao. So Elder Jiao came to see Fa Yuan, right? And as I also mentioned yesterday, it's traditional for when somebody comes to visit, you say, In usual Chinese houses you say, have you eaten yet? But in Zen monasteries you say, where did you come from? So Elder Zhao said where he came from, and then Fa Yan said, did you come by land or by boat? Fa Yan had a monastery on the coast, on the shoreline of a huge lake, one of those, if you look on a map of China you see there's one real huge lake in the center of the country, and actually

[17:53]

One state, one of the big states is called north of the lake and another state is called south of the lake. And this lake, he had a big monastery on this lake. So sometimes monks would come across the lake by boat to see him. Sometimes they walk around by land. So he said to Jiao, did you come by land or by boat? Jiao said, by boat. He said, where's the boat? He said, the boat's on the river. There's a river going into the lake. It's a river-fed lake, a big bulge in a big river. And then Elder Zhao left, and Fa Yan asked a monk who was standing nearby, you tell me, did that monk just now have eyes or not? That's the story. In some sense, this is really a simple story.

[18:58]

Can you believe it? Partly it's a simple story, and then Given that we're humans and that it is human to earth, our mind just can't stand the simplicity and wants to make it more complicated. So it couldn't be this simple. Must be some profound meaning here. But as it says in the commentary, Well, if you say he did have eyes, what did he say to make you think he has eyes? I mean, if you came by boat and you said you came by boat, would that mean that you had, you know, enlightened vision? And if you came by boat and you parked your boat in the river and somebody asked you where did you park your boat and you said it's in the river, would that mean that you had enlightened vision?

[20:15]

But if you came by boat and you said you came by boat, would that mean you didn't have enlightened vision? So to speak in this way, does it prove or disprove that you understand? And there's many Zen stories, as it also says in the commentary, where The teacher would say, you know, did you come by land or boat? And the monk might say, you know, neither. Or even if he said, I came by boat, he'd say, where's the boat now? And the monk might, as it says, the monk might bring into play some of his abilities. Some of these monks could say something pretty interesting at that point. Maybe some of you could, too. or if not say something, do something physically rather interesting, like slap the teacher. Or some of the monks might be able to hesitate and get nervous because they think they should say something profound and then the teacher would slap them.

[21:26]

But this monk didn't get upset, didn't get nervous, and didn't do anything spectacular. He just said, by boat, the boat's on the river. Very settled, straightforward. Does that have, do you have eyes or not have eyes? So again, this is kind of like a potentially good example of not being involved in the story which he's creating right here. Like somebody says to you, did you come to Green Gulch by car or did you walk? You say, well, what's the answer? I guess most of you came by car, right? And where's your car? It's in the parking lot. Can you leave it at that?

[22:31]

Are you completely settled with that? Depends who's asking the question. Pardon? Depends who's asking the question. Does it depend on who's asking the question? Like if it was you. Yeah, right. Try to come up with some tricky answer. That's right. That's right. And sometimes I do ask, in the Zen center, I might ask somebody, you know, did you come by car? Did you walk? And if they've read this story, they might have trouble answering it. There's an art story, Case 37 of the same book, right?

[23:37]

One teacher says to the other one, how do you test monks? And he said like this, he said, if a monk comes, I say, hey you, And so what do most people do if you say, hey you, they go like this. That's it. But then you say, what's Buddha? And they go, uh, you know, especially if a Zen master says, what's Buddha? They go, uh. If somebody, if somebody, you know, really comes to meet you and says, what's your name? You might be quite settled maybe to say, in your case anyway, to say Omar. In some ways, it might be easier for you to say Deborah than Omar in circumstances like that unless you're really settled. I think people feel kind of sad just to say their name.

[24:45]

Or, you know, I just heard a little sound over here. You might say to somebody, what's your name? And their stomach might gurgle. And they might let it go at that. I have a funny thought. I mean, I thought it was funny. What if this guy's, like, being sarcastic? Boy, what guy? What if he's being sarcastic and saying, well, the boat's on the river. He's got eyes or what? What if he's being sarcastic? Yeah, kind of like, duh. So then, you know, the other guy says, yeah. Yeah, of course it's unbelievable.

[25:58]

Like, do you get eyes? Can you see? I mean, you know, pretty, like a no-brainer. Yeah. Like no-brainer, yeah. Right. Yeah. So... Well, the no-brainer part, I think, is very close to it, yeah. For a person with a brain, in some sense, to not overuse it, you know, just to use it at a very minimal level, is non-involvement. Sometimes the minimal level of using your brain is rather high level. Sometimes you're being required to do something at a high level, but the point is, if this is required, you use that much. If this is required, like a question like, where's the boat on the river? That's all that's necessary. So it's kind of like a no-brainer in a way. It doesn't take that much. It isn't a big challenge. It's on the river. Like that story I told you about when I flew to Portland with Suzuki Roshi.

[27:13]

And on the way there, he said, I'm going to teach you how to count people in Japanese. So he taught me how to count people. And at first I thought, well, that's nice. He's going to teach me how to count people in Japanese. That's nice. So then he taught me. So then I said it back to him, you know, he taught me how to say it, and then I said it back to him, and then he went to sleep. And I stopped, and he woke up and told me to start again. And I started again, and he went back to sleep, and I stopped, and he woke up and told me to start again. So I realized he wanted me to keep saying it all the way to Portland. So I did. But I still thought, you know, this is kind of funny, you know, a Zen master spending his time teaching somebody to count in Japanese, and I say, well, that's all he could teach you. you know, you're not up for anything more sophisticated. But still, even that he would spend his time teaching me such a simple thing, you know, it all is kind of like, we can hardly believe, you know, that he would be, you know, my mind thinks, no, no, it must, maybe something a little more profound here, or if not, he's teaching me a simple thing and now he's going to sleep, I'll just stop.

[28:26]

Right? Right? But the funny thing is, the rest of the story is, on the way back from Portland, he was very sick. He got sick in Portland. His gallbladder, he had a gallbladder attack because he had a malignant gallbladder. So he got really sick. So on the way back, he was sitting in one seat, I was sitting in the next seat. Where was I sitting? I was sitting in my seat. But could I just let it go up, sitting in my seat? Could I be a no-brainer? No, I couldn't. my mind would not just simply sit in that seat. My mind was thinking of much more complicated things than sitting in a seat next to my sick teacher. In fact, a lot of the time, for a bodhisattva, the work is actually to be a no-brainer. To be somebody who can sit next to somebody who's suffering and not think of being someplace else. Like, suffering person? Okay, suffering person. Sitting there, me sitting here, that's it.

[29:27]

Rather than, yeah, suffering person, but I have other things to do. And my mind goes off someplace else rather than being next to this person. Like, you know, it's not that big a deal. I am next to the person, right? It doesn't take a lot of brain power to figure that out and remember that. But I can't remember it. Why can't I remember it? Because my mind wants to do something else. Why does it want to do something else? Because it's painful to just be present. Sometimes. A lot of the time. So we want to jazz things up a little bit. And that's okay, except what about the times when somebody who's suffering is with you and you don't want to be with them? Or what about when somebody is behaving in a way that you don't like? It's painful for you and you don't want it to be that way. How about being dumb then? In other words, it's very difficult to be dumb sometimes because being dumb is to see that things are the way they are and you don't like them. So it's crucial to be able to stay with what's happening.

[30:32]

And it doesn't take that much intelligence because it's already happening. And we've got all this intelligence which we can use to be someplace else and make things more complicated. But then we lose, as it says here, we lose the original purity. We lose our original innocence. which is just to be with what's happening moment by moment. Including that people present us with really complex stuff sometimes, really provocative, complex material, complex stories. This is a simple story, but sometimes the Zen people present us with complicated stories that always have all these bumps and shapes. And the thing is, our mind has to leave that alone, leave that story alone. to leave it alone just as it is. So again, you know, I wrote, excuse me, I wrote my name down here next to the verse.

[31:39]

My name is Tenshin, right? Tenshin means this kind of innocent, childlike impression of things. So Tenshin is like, what's this? Hand, that's Tenshin. It's a Tenshin response. Like a child. Like a child. Yeah, it means innocent or childlike. When Suzuki Rishi gave me the name Tenshin, he said that means Reb is Reb. That's what the name means. Or Jeanette is Jeanette. That's what that name means. That's all. That's the name. That's your... You can say innocence. Childlike innocence. And the next part of the name is Zenki, which means a total dynamic function of the universe. So, does the monk have eyes or not? Well, in a sense, in a sense, he doesn't have eyes or not.

[32:46]

Because there's nothing he did which is like having eyes or not having eyes. You know what I mean? He didn't do anything that shows he had eyes or shows he didn't have eyes. There's nothing wrong or right about what he did. It's just what he did. And what he did was just very straightforward and innocent. Does he see clearly? Does he hear clearly? Does he respond clearly? Does he see things clearly? Right. And there's nothing he did which said he saw clearly or not. A child could say that. A wise person could say that. Now, some people could say something different than that. Some people could say something more creative than that. And then you would say, oh my God, this person has eyes. Some people say things that show that they have eyes, I mean, that nobody could say if they didn't have eyes. That happens sometimes. But this is a little different story. This person says something which doesn't show he didn't have eyes or did have eyes.

[33:48]

But does the total dynamic function of the universe operate through his simple response? Is there anything obstructing it? No. There's nothing enhancing it. Nothing enhancing it? Right. Nothing enhancing the total dynamic function of the universe. You know, we don't have like, we have a universe, not just a universe, but we have the total function of the universe and there's nothing which enhances that. That's this kind of story. And there's other stories, I guess, which enhance the total dynamic function of the universe. But this one doesn't. This is not that kind of story. So why don't you start just by realizing the total dynamic function of the universe and then work on improving the total dynamic function. Doesn't the question obstruct it? What question? The question, did that monk have eyes or not?

[34:53]

Does it obstruct it? Is it destructive for you? It upsets me. It upsets it? How could something upset the devil and tell that I'm a function of the universe? When I am involved. Where's the I? I. Well, I'm answering the question. Oh, did you bring the I to there? Oh. And where did you put it? All over the place? We'll say not last try in the question. That's what I put it. He's testing the monk, though, isn't he? He's testing the monk's understanding. Yeah, but she's coming on the scene now, and she brought something with her, which she put on the last part of the story. Thank you. So, I asked her what she brought, she brought the self, I asked her where she put it, she put it on the last line. Is that the end of the story? It's... Your story.

[35:57]

Okay. Does she have eyes or not? He said, he said, sure. He's questioning. So, um, so I'm kind of like, uh, um, done with the story. I mean, this is enough for me. This is a simple story. It's talking about being simple. It's talking about not adding or subtracting anything from what happens. It's talking about not disturbing the original purity of the mind. And although I'm done with it, I'm not going to make what I just said into the story. I just, that's just how I feel about it. So now if anybody wants to make it more complicated... Yeah, I don't have a problem. Okay, all right. So you have Greg, Andy, and Stuart. What? I'm thinking about the monk.

[37:01]

There he was, standing there, minding his own business. Kind of like you. And all of a sudden, he's in a quandary. So, I mean, it's an unresolved story in that sense, right? Yeah, and also it just says monk. He didn't get his name in the book. Right? So he probably didn't respond very well. What? Obviously he didn't come up with a good answer, otherwise his name would be in the book. That's right. It wasn't even bad enough to get in the book. It wasn't bad enough to get in the book. But he was good enough to be in the story. And that's pretty good, actually. It's probably better than getting your name in the book. Yeah, good. So the monks are standing for you. Now you are standing for the monk?

[38:02]

Yeah. Aww. Andy? Was that you that had your... I started to, yeah. So you're done? I'll make one comment for people who are right here for the first time. Okay, listen up. Something you've said before, which is that the story responds to the inquiring mind. And part of less people really think that it's always this... The meaning of the story. The meaning of the story. Yeah. Having... They can see a good example of that tonight, I think. Because on the face of it, it does appear quite simple, but you've made it into something there. Did you hear what he said? No, I didn't.

[39:06]

Try again. They didn't get it. Tell me just a little bit more. Please. If the meeting responds to the inquiring mind, then even a simple story like this becomes the focus of a classic Green Gulch. No? You don't see what he's saying? Have you ever had a simpler story? Is this about so far? I think this is about the simplest one. Well, also I think, again, there's a principle of study here that Andy just brought up, namely that if there's a story, got a story, and a story could be like a narrative story like this, but also a story is when you meet a person,

[40:16]

When you first meet a person, you may not have much of a story on them. Maybe as you get to know them more, you develop more of a story. So you have a story finally about somebody. Now the meaning of that story is not in the story. It's not in the words of the story. If you study the story, if you look, if you inquire into the person that you're meeting, you bring your energy and your your questions to the person to try to find out what's going on now that the stories develop between you and the person. It's not that you, it's not that your inquiry gets the, gets the answer. It's not that the story has the answer, but the meaning of the story, the meaning of what's presented to you comes forward to meet you when you bring your energy to the story. Okay? So Andy was feeling like some energy was brought to this story, so some meaning came forward when the energy came to this story. Is that what you're saying? So the principle here, these stories are sitting there, and if you bring your energy to them, some meaning comes forward.

[41:26]

Now one way the meaning comes forward is you bring your energy to it, and the way you bring your energy to it is such that you grasp it. And then the meaning of the story that you get maybe is what happens when you grasp it. part of the meaning of the story is if you make it more complicated. So part of the meaning of the story could be you lose your original purity or your innocence in studying this story. But the point is, anyway, the way you bring your energy gets met. The way you bring your energy to anything gets met. The thing you're studying, the meaning's not in the thing. The meaning's not in you. The meaning... is created, is co-created, dependently arises between the story and you. The story and your effort, the story and your energy. The energy you bring to the story is responded to. The meaning comes forth in that response. It can drive you nuts sometimes.

[42:28]

What can drive you nuts? I mean, this kind of interactions, if you wish. can drive you crazy sometimes. Because, depending, well, whatever energy you put towards a story, and trying to figure out the meaning, you've got to be crazy sometimes. Because you're trying so hard, and somehow it doesn't make any sense. You're climbing up the wall. Yeah. Well, see, part of what happens there is sometimes you bring your energy to the story to try to get the meaning from the story. If you try to get the meaning from the story, you will not be successful. But you might be successful to some extent, because you might get to see that that doesn't work. So in some sense you get some meaning from that by seeing that you're looking in the wrong place. The meaning isn't in the story. The meaning isn't, of course, in the story, in the book, on the paper, in the words. The meaning is not there. But those words give you a place to apply your energy.

[43:30]

So where do you look for the response? Inside yourself. Well, you know, where do you look for the response? You look in yourself? Look over here rather than over there? See, another characteristic of this is that the response, the answer to your effort comes at the same time as your effort. So when you make the effort to study, the answer comes right away. It isn't that you make the effort to study and then later you understand. The actual response... You can't see the response. You can't see the meaning. The meaning happens at the same time as your study. So the study is the meaning. But again, we don't like that. We want to study what's happening. We want to study a person. We want to study a plant. We want to study a mountain. And then get the answer, the meaning.

[44:33]

But the meaning happens at the same time as your study. But then you can't see the meaning separate from your effort. You can't see the meaning aside from your inquiry. We like to do that. Because when you're making an effort to study something, you can't then grasp the meaning because you're making an effort to study. What we want to do is study and get the meaning. But actually the meaning comes right while you're studying. In other words, your study and the meaning are inseparable. So you can't grasp the answer. Your study is the answer. Studying things is the answer. In other words, you're studying things, you're not getting answers, you're studying. You're a student rather than a, you know, what do you call it, an acquiring being. Rather than getting things, you live. Yes. Yes. You say play instead of studying, it makes it a lot easier to grasp, I think. Play is fine.

[45:35]

Because if you just play with the story instead of studying it, then playing is the thing. Play is fine, yeah. So it's fun when you play with it. Yeah, it's play, or just come forth with energy. Just make the situation an opportunity. Various ways to translate it. Yes, what's your name again? I'm Nancy. One of the many Nancys. Okay, Nancy? I know what you're saying, but it seems sometimes I do make an inquiry and then later do get an answer, but they're not... The way I hear what you're saying is kind of like living with the question. It's living with the question. It's bringing yourself into the question. Yeah, right. That's the process. Right. I think there have been times when I've brought myself into the question and then I think there's been kind of a, like, letting go of an answer and I've received an answer. Uh-huh. Do you know that? Yes, yes.

[46:35]

So, that sounds a little different. There are cases where I ask a question and then I get an answer, okay? This is the world of cause and effect. Which is, we don't deny that world. Okay? We're not criticizing or rejecting that world. But we're talking about the world where meaning happens. Meaning happens not you do something and then you get meaning. Now if you say, I made an inquiry and then later I got an answer. I made an inquiry and forgot about my inquiry and then I got an answer. it might be at the very moment of forgetting about the inquiry that you get the answer. Or you don't even notice that you forgot about the inquiry, but you did, and at that moment, the same moment, the answer comes. So it might seem like you asked and got an answer, but actually what may have happened was you asked, and you really brought your energy to the situation, and at that moment you understood it, rather than you asked, you gave up, and then you understood it.

[47:48]

No. You asked, you gave up, and you understood. There's another way to tell the story. When we say meaning here, we mean the meaning of liberation, the meaning that removes the suffering of duality. So I guess my question for you is how... Do you have a sense of how to apply this mode of existence to your life until we go to a more complicated story? Do you have a sense of how to practice with this? Yeah. Doesn't the verse kind of give you a, sort of a, it's kind of like what you're saying right now, the verse in that case? Yeah? Yeah. How so? Well, it says water, it doesn't wash water, but you don't have to keep reading this, figuring it out.

[48:54]

Gold is changed for gold, and then so on. And it says, tying knots, drawing trigrams, when there are such things, completely lost is the true pure mind of original man. But what it makes me think of is sort of what you're saying, but that trying to find this complicated meaning in the most simple you know, situations, like anyone saying anything to you. I mean, it's kind of like we've been doing group work at City Center, and everyone keeps asking for a safe place. And I'm like, what is that? You know, no matter what you say, you know, it's completely a different story for everybody there. So you can't have a safe place. But it's kind of about how that... It turns into... But I was just appreciating the verse because it was saying what you were saying.

[49:59]

Yeah, well, that's why I didn't read the verse because I was already done. The verse is just the same thing over again. In this case, the verse... Usually I look for the verse to add something, but in this case the verse just reiterated what I already said so I didn't even look at it. By the way, the Chinese doesn't say anything about man. It just says... It actually has character for mind. It's the original... original mind. You lose the true innocence of the original mind. So, you know, all these kinds of things that they did, you know, like making knots and things and making these hexagrams and astrologies and other things, sometimes people do anyway, things that bring out truth in a situation, actually just make you lose your original innocence. And they're very tempting because they're really true. These things are true. It's not like there's nothing to them, but they create opposition and make things more complicated. And that's okay to make things more complicated if you don't lose your original purity.

[51:04]

So again, I would ask you, how do you apply this? Do you have some idea of how to apply this this story to your life, or how your life applies to this story. Yes, Stuart. I'm not making mountains out of mortals. Uh-huh. Now, how do you do that? Just like that. Okay. And are you going to practice that right now? What practice? You do? Good. Good. Everyone? Um... What's coming to me in how to practice this is just to participate with life. As we were going over the story, what was present was I wanted to participate, but there was an enormous, overwhelming amount of fear.

[52:11]

And I wanted to ask you a question, which is, what, I don't understand that fear. I don't understand what, like, I mean, basically, I haven't heard a word you've said since, I mean, I've heard the words, but, like, I couldn't follow anything for, like, the last half hour, you know, since the beginning. Because, like, my heart went up. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And, um... How'd you hear it now? It's better. It's better? What does better mean? I feel better. My heart feels better. What's better about it? I feel like I'm being true to myself, to you, to everybody here by participating instead of betraying myself and not.

[53:31]

Betraying yourself how? Because I wanted to participate and I wasn't. And as I... Was it that you were sitting there wanting to participate rather than participating? Yeah. And you were thinking... I don't know. I don't know. Well, you almost got it, probably. So you were sitting there imagining that you were about to participate. You were thinking, I'm going to participate. I want to participate. It's hard to think. I was sitting here... Yeah, like... You felt like you weren't participating. Well, you know, I felt like I was, but it was like, kind of like when you're riding on the edge of the diving board and you're not really participating with the pool quite yet. You know, you're like, you're on the diving board. Yeah, you're on the diving board. You don't feel like you're diving yet.

[54:33]

Right. So then you think about diving. Right. And then you get afraid. Yes. Yeah, it's that and drift. You're standing there on the diving board. You don't say, this is diving. This is part of diving. This is the standing on the board part of the diving. You don't count this as, this is the diving practice here on the board. Yeah. And you think, now I'm going to dive. Right. And then you get afraid. Now I'm going to dive. I'm going to dive. Then you get afraid. I'm going to go fly into the air. You get afraid. I'm going to smash my head. Or I'm going to make a great dive. Then you get afraid. So you've got to stand on the diving board and say, this is diving. And then, from this being diving, a dive comes. But if you think a little bit ahead, then there's fear.

[55:39]

So this class does have a pool, right? There's a pool here. And at various times we're standing at the edge of the diving board. So, of course, fear is part of the participation, but that's the way to participate, of imagining what it would be like if you talked. If you said something, especially if you said something like really brilliant, that's very frightening. Or something really stupid. Anyway, the dive's a good example. Diving in, or jumping in. So there's a situation here that you can jump into. If you think a little bit ahead, your heart goes boom, [...] boom. Right? Right? So we can do that now. We can go around the room, okay, and I can call on people. I'll tell you I'm going to call on you before I call on you. So you can anticipate it. Or, or not.

[56:47]

And if you anticipate it, you'll notice there'll be boom, [...] boom. If you don't anticipate it, there won't be boom, [...] boom. They'll just be whatever kind of boom-boom there is. It's more like lub-dub. But I'm going to come back to you in a minute. I'm giving you a one-minute warning. I'll be back to you. I'll maybe give you a five-minute warning. Somewhere between one and five minutes, and I'll come back and I'm going to ask you a really not-too-difficult question. I'm just going to ask you to express your understanding of Buddhism. But I'm going to give you a little time to get ready for it and see if you can just stay in the present the whole time. And if you can't, then you'll feel the boom, boom, boom. Okay? That's normal. Okay? Now I'm going to come back to you. May I? May I? I'll come back to you, too. Just a second.

[57:47]

I'll be right back. Anybody want to keep me busy before I come back to those people? I'll be right back. This is easy for... No, you can make space for them. I'll be right back. Is this sort of an answer to one of our early koans? How shall two of them meet? I don't remember it offhand. I don't have my book with me. We had a koan earlier about a couple of koans back. How... how two teachers can meet. Yes, this is definitely about that. This is how you meet. Shreya comes what? What was that? Shreya comes what? It's the preceding cause. And which one was that? What? One, two, one, two. Okay. We distracted Omar, but it's okay. Yes, ma'am. Isn't it possible to have boom, [...] and not necessarily be anticipating?

[58:56]

Is it possible or sure? Sure it is. What? Let me think now. When have I had that without anticipating? I don't know. You might see a doctor. You might see a doctor. What do you mean you might see a doctor? If there's a boom-boom and no fear. If there's a boom-boom and no fear, right. Right. Go see a doctor. I can't think of any time when my heart beats when I'm not anticipating something, when it starts to come up like that. Usually I'm anticipating something. And it's funny too, you know, it's like if you go around the room, you know, if you go around the room now, everybody's going to just say something, you know, let's just, just everybody just say something really helpful to us, okay? Just something kind, just say something kind. You don't have to say, nothing's brilliant, okay? I'm just going to ask each of you to say something kind, all right? And if you know your turn's coming, If it's far away, you may notice you're fine, but as you get closer, you may notice, surprisingly, that your heart starts to beat louder as you get closer.

[60:00]

Or it may start beating louder, and you sort of calm yourself down and say, I'm never going to answer this question until, okay, I don't have to worry about this. You know, it's going to be all right, and then it comes back down. And as you get closer, it comes up again, you know. It's the anticipation. I think that's a good answer. If your heart's beating like that, and you're not sort of anticipating something, there's probably something wrong with your heart. But your heart, there's nothing wrong with your heart if it beats hard when you're afraid. It's normal, it's normal fear chemistry. So, are you all ready to say something kind and helpful to everybody? Okay? So I'll just call, is it best to call on you at random or except for Maya? Yes. I wanted to offer something relating to this last line about the true innocence of the original mind. Someone came to a tea in the tea house, and we had a lovely tea, a very lovely tea, and I asked him to write something, and he wrote, this wonderful tea has no meaning. And you weren't insulted, were you?

[61:01]

I found it very helpful. Oh, see, I was just talking to yourself, myself. Just wonderful things. Who was I talking to? So is it kind of like, you know, here's a bunch of happy, healthy people, so you don't need to say anything kind to these people, right? But could you say something kind to these people? Is there something you could say that would be kind? Some kind statement you have to make to people here? Sure. Okay, would you like to say something? Yes, I would like all of you a safe trip home, and I wish you a good night's sleep. Sweet dreams. Okay, and Karyo-san, do you have something you'd like to say? Yes, I wish peace on each step of your life. Sonia? Thank you for coming. Could you hear her?

[62:04]

No. She said thank you for coming. Jackie? That you're all blessed by having a teacher like Rev here. How's your heart? It's moving faster. I'll be back for another stick. I'll let you go. Carrie? Keep on smiling. Deborah? I just really appreciate everyone for coming. Pat? Love as you feel, as you feel it. Love as you feel it. Linda? I was going to be kind and pass my turn to Arlene. Did that calm you down when you thought of that?

[63:10]

It does help to create... When you know your turn's coming, it helps to create that boom-boom, right? I'm working in a central area here, so you people know. Arlene? I'm stinking. laughter [...] That's what that feels like, a bunch of massacres. You've already spoken, but do you have something else to say, Erwin?

[64:16]

Sure. It would be great to get to know all of you. And Herb? This is a great place to let go of. Helen? Helen? I'm thinking a lot about equanimity, so I don't know about equanimity. Mom? Just be yourself. Don't interpret anything. Thanks for coming. Reverend Snowhut. I was wondering, is this non-involvement? Gabriella.

[65:21]

Just sit with it. Henry. Pay my borrower a lender fee. Is he a banker, this guy? Completely. Please tell me what brought you to Zen Center. It's good to see all your faces. Well, everybody I see has eyes. Wendy? To follow up what I said before, I think you can only be kind to yourselves. Susan?

[66:38]

Laughter is like ice cream. Richard? Hey, y'all enjoy your boat ride. Suzanne? I understand if your heart is going like that. Andy? I confess. I like listening to this story with each other. Stuart. It's wonderful being here. Lee. Please go eat some ice cream. Enjoy the stars. Pardon? Enjoy the stars. Tommy. Tommy. It was truly wonderful to be here with everyone. Tim?

[67:43]

Sometimes when we feel a little bit hurt, the first thing we do is go try to help out somebody else, and sometimes maybe help ourselves. Christine is in there, huh? That hat, could you see what that... Christine hat? I'm making my first steps. Linda. Don't worry. Dave. I'm so happy for bringing so much energy to this class.

[68:49]

Is that Jeremy? Yeah. Thank you for the class. It was nice to hear laughter and wisdom in the same room. Nancy? I have nothing else to say. Would you like another chance? Alicia? Arlene? Rachel? It's nice to know I'm not the only one with heart problems. Melissa? I wish you continued good fellowship.

[69:50]

Hamilton? I was just listening to my heart. Now it's sort of the end, right? Could you hear him? No. I couldn't hear you, ma'am. I was just listening while I heard nothing too important. It kind of started going as I kind of cast off. That's mean? Yeah. Elmer? Elmer? Whatever happens, it's okay. Rosie? As my 89-year-old father just told me when I was asking him if he'd like to hear another story, I was reading the story of, you don't have to entertain me, honey, just be with me.

[71:01]

I don't know what you mean by that. Can you imagine if you were reading your kid a story and they said... Relax, Mom. Leanne? Leanne? Steven? Brush your teeth. Dan? Did everyone sign up and pay for class?

[72:03]

Yes. Diana? Will everyone be free from suffering? Elena. Lay here, be square. Teresa. Boom, boom. Must be the big boom. Miffin. Don't worry, I'd be happy. Tiger sign? I don't know, it just keeps rolling along. Nancy?

[73:05]

May everyone find something in tonight's lesson that they can use, that you can all use when you come in. I haven't stopped smiling. Thank you all. I was thinking about that boat on the river. I was thinking that's probably a good place to stay. Where should I go now? How about over to Toby? And then Peter, two Peters. I was thinking tonight of a nasty friend of mine that I'm always with.

[74:14]

And... Something in this made me... at least want to pause to say, but even though I'm annoyed, I might overlook that he was in his nastiness even as beautiful as like a waterfall or a snapback or some things. It's just doing what it's doing. And I don't want to just be annoyed. Peter, Peter, Peter. Right. What did you say? Good night. Good night. And we have time for some more. So we can just come up here to Grace. Sleep tight. And Carol? It amazes me that I can feel it.

[75:19]

Well, I used to have the heart problem. When I would come across, I would immediately get heart pounding. After a while, I would not get that. I would get so sick. I think it's because I knew I might speak without being able to stop myself. And I was so calm tonight for a long time until I got that the reason I was so calm was that it didn't matter how you were seen. It didn't matter how you were seen. I was astonished that I could both feel so separate from what I am and want to be seen in a particular way so badly. But I don't know what it is. You don't know what it is?

[76:19]

What way it is that I want to be seen, not having to totally see. Yes. Be gentle with yourself. May I ask something? Letting go again and again. Almost not. I'm very happy to see so many old friends again and to be in this class with you for months to come. Peace and love. How are you feeling?

[77:30]

Huh? You okay? Relaxed? I guess I'd like to just say, continue. Keep pressing on. A wonderful birthday party among good friends. Is it your birthday today too? No, sharing, sharing. And coming along this way the boom boom rises and the boom boom falls. And thank you for helping to turn it sideways. Cindy? To learn to stop trying to tie knots. Can you hear her? She said, to learn to try, to learn to stop trying to tie knots, or something like that.

[78:39]

Okay, let's see, and then we can go over here to Pat. It's always a special... book of serenity to come back together what's your name again? Christian I really enjoy this talk here this list, I've always thought so Well, like, you know, I can relate to all that. I'm going through all these stages. Sometimes I'm embarrassed. Sometimes I'm like, I'm amazing. It's nice to hear that from people like that. Jim? I've had my distance from Cohen's for some time.

[79:42]

I don't know if they're all like this or not. This one seems very interesting. Yeah, he's kept his distance for quite a while. Thanks for coming to class. I've been waiting for you. Busan? Thank you, sir. And then, let's see, I guess maybe Katie? I checked with the doctor, and your heart might be pounding because you're healthy if you're running. Right. Without answers. Okay. Kamala?

[80:43]

Pardon? So it sounds like we're getting ready to... Charlie? How may I be more kind? Who? I'll give you the treasure for it. Arlene? Do you realize the irony that this is the book of Samaritan? Greg? Remember, you are always next. And then up in the front here, right?

[82:10]

Amanda. May we remember to forgive ourselves and may we remember to love ourselves. And Jeanette? I can't say a kind thing when I'm trying to protect myself. Could you hear her? Renee? Ouch. Raj? I have a different symptom.

[83:12]

I have sweaty palms. But I was feeling like, is this the simplest koan or the hardest koan? And it feels like the sweaty palms are because my mind can't do anything with this. Yeah, simple is not easy, but simple is simple. It felt like when Hayan said, you tell me, did that monk just have eyes or not? It's almost like saying, is Michael Jordan a great basketball player or what? The answer is so simply, that's some answers. Martha? Martha? Oh, you're both gently up the street. Did anybody not speak a kind word? Oh, Roberta. Roberta. Don't worry, because he'll be dead soon.

[84:14]

That's your kind word. That's your word.

[84:27]

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