Last night someone said to me that she'd be sorry for the people who just retreated and being here in Tulsa Market. I think she said, you make it sound too easy. And then she said, you know, it's really not that easy. Not that many people can give up everything. In other words, what I'm saying is it's really easy if you give up everything. It sounds easy if you give up everything, but it's hard to give up everything. Especially since you can't even do that. It doesn't count if you do it.

[01:02]

You're still holding on to the video game. Keep everything up, having that power. So as I mentioned, maybe I could write on the blackboard, you know. Do you have any?

[02:03]

But, uh, it's independent self, actually, independent self. Okay. You know, on the other side you have, um, reality maybe. Can I see it to you? The seat over here came on. Let's see, what else would make you a such reality? Oh, maybe not. More non-divisional. Fundamental. So, studying this side, studying the side of commision, studying the side of self, also independent self code is selfishness.

[03:30]

When you believe in an independent self, then you're inexorably selfish. Also over on this side is ignorance. Ignore. Ignore. Ignore. Ignore what? Ignore yourself. I'd rather say to everybody else. So what I told you is that this is all we have over here. That's all we've got to work with. And to pay attention to that kind of stuff, for example,

[04:35]

To study selfishness, the study of selfishness is selfless. I mean, especially when you really put your whole self into the study of selfishness, that's selfless. To study delusion is quite enlightened. To study reality, probably, can you write selflessness over there? To study reality and non-delusion and fundamental things you can rely on and also to study selflessness, that's delusion over there. It's delusion to study those things and it's enlightenment. It's delusion to self-exist to study those things. Well, of course, you don't really study the disorder that combines that occasionally. So to rely on reality, non-delusion, selflessness, and that kind of thing, this is the realm of illusion.

[05:39]

The realm of enlightenment and selflessness is to study the shit on this side. To study this side is related to giving up everything. People want to live over here, right? In the realm of selflessness, reality, non-delusion. So because they want to, they go right ahead and do it. And they make their dreams into what they want. They make what they want into their dream of reality. But actually, it's selfless and inviting you to study delusion. That's right before us, too. So that means, let's see, if you If you want to accomplish something in your life, then it's better just to sort of like operate on the side of reality and go right to work, right? And what do most people consider to be reality?

[06:40]

Well, what they think they consider to be reality. So that's what most people are doing. If they're busy accomplishing things, and the basis upon which they accomplish these things is what they think, which they assume is true. So this is the realm of karma. To turn over and spend your time looking at selfishness and delusion, you're not going to be able to accomplish much very much, right? Because you can't accomplish much based on, at least you can't accomplish much good based on selfishness and delusion, right? So you'd like, it's rather, it's kind of a waste of time to be spending your time looking at this stuff over here, right? You're going to be kind of like in trouble if you spend your time paying attention to these things. I mean, you're in trouble. You're facing that you're in trouble. So I'm suggesting not that you actually turn your attention in this direction, because if you turned your attention in this direction, you'd just be turning it again towards what you selfishly want to look at.

[07:48]

Does that make sense? Whatever direction you turn, it's going to be in a selfish direction. Does that make sense? The reason it's going to be in a selfish direction is because you think you can turn in that direction. So it just doesn't work. If you just sit still and walk straight ahead, various things will present themselves to you. For example, selfishness will appear before. Of course, first other people's selfishness will appear. but that's already there. That's reality, right? Other people's greed, other people's cruelty, other people's evil, that will appear to you, but gradually your own will start to appear to you. And when your own starts to appear to you, then other people's virtue and selflessness and kindness will start appearing to you.

[08:59]

Funny that your own delusion and other people's wisdom come up together. and your wisdom and your understanding of reality and other people's problems. Funny how that works. But they're right. So, of course, most people Most people think that they have something to work with besides their own delusion. Some people think that they have some wisdom and maybe some delusion. Some people think that they have mostly wisdom and a little bit of delusion. Some people think they have just all straight out wisdom. I don't know if anybody thinks that they're completely wise.

[10:03]

I'm not sure. Actually, I think some people do. I mean, I think they do. I think they don't have a moment of doubt that they're wise if they see reality. I think I've heard about such... Actually, they're dying for somebody to invite them back to the world of the living. But they won't come out of that place unless you go into that realm and pay your respects. You know, offer them some kind of like non-humiliating way to return from being stuck over on this realm of arrogance. The people who are paying attention to this stuff, well, you know, they're just like wrecks, right? Just relax.

[11:06]

I mean, people will pay really good attention to it, like, wholeheartedly open up to this side. We'll realize that quite the opposite point of view, rather than everything they think is reality, they think everything they think is exactly what's even meant by delusion. Everything, everything that I think is delusion. That's the definition of delusion, what I think. Even if you think you're diluted, that's a delusion. Even if I think I'm diluted, that's a delusion. Right. Even though it's right. Even though it's correct. It's a delusion. It's correct. It's a delusion. And it's correct. It is correct. It's what it calls a valid delusion. It's a valid delusion. Hmm? Valid and invalid delusion? Yeah, right. For example, thinking that I'm not deluded is an invalid delusion.

[12:08]

However, if I not only think that I'm deluded, and also understand that that's correct, but have no resistance to that whatsoever, then I am a Buddha at the same time. And that's why we want the human nature on the other side. You completely settle into this side. In other words, you give up everything. Give up all your kind of like power tools. You know, power tools. Like here you are sitting there. Then you got it right. Got it right. You got it wrong. Of course, you got your right and your wrong. You give up that stuff. Then you're sitting there. And also, you give up undiluted. Undiluted. It's right. Our tool is actually a very powerful tool. To know that you're deluded, very powerful. And to know that other people are deluded is also helpful. And also to know that they don't think they are is also powerful.

[13:13]

So you know there's only certain groups you can mention this to. Pardon? So, it is to think that I'm deluded in another delusion, which I need to let go of, even though it's correct, and also to really accept it, and that's my situation, and that's my fruit of it. There are people over on this side who are settled into their wisdom and their non-delusion, and that's called being possessed by a demon. They think they're Buddha. Now, actually, a Buddha can occasionally think that he or she is Buddha. It's okay. That thought will fly to their head, but they know that that's a delusion. And when the Buddha says, I'm Buddha, it isn't because that thought ran to their head and they thought, oh, that's true, and they grab it and say it.

[14:20]

It just comes up out of it for the sake of thought of the being, so they don't even know where to look for the Buddhas. but they don't really identify with what they said. But I can guess that, you know, Liz was doing pretty well there for a while, and now she makes us she doesn't have much to hold on to, right? The last part was really a little, a little, I think. So... If you hear that all we have is delusion and then you say, well, but to think and hear that, well, understanding that all we have delusion, that's not an illusion, well, that's a delusion too. What that means is that although it's correct to think that it's something there by itself, you know, actually that exists like a truth, like delusion is delusion is a truth.

[15:25]

Then you slip back in to be caught by that. You know, very evolved, almost untouchable truth. You know, who can hurt delusion is delusion. But it's not who can hurt it, but who can be hurt by it. It can be hurt by anything that you then make into something. But it's okay to go ahead and say this. We will. I was happy to hear about it. It's number four in the middle length sayings. It's called Fear and Dread. It's a good one. It's got some of the stuff in there that I was talking about. It quoted me before I was born. Anyway, before I get into the sutra, does anybody like to discuss any rebellious comments?

[16:32]

Yeah, I need to leave comments. Any light comments? You know, when you talk about this, and then I thought of all of the porn that then, which, it's a porn show. And then I thought, There's... what can hurt people. What forms are then? You mean like... like rows and shaved heads and stuff? Or dolly?

[17:35]

No, I mean... Forgetting... what the... Forgetting what they are, can you hurt people? Yeah. And we have... so we have the forms... And then we have lots of teachings to protect people from the forms, right? So we have the forms. Like I wrote that character, you know, which means ceremony. It means ceremony or forms or procedures for conducting religious practice. And it's a combination of meaning and person. So it's a way to, there are opportunities for the person to bring forth energy and the meaning to come and meet that expression of effort in the form. The form gives a person a place to put the effort. And the meaning comes and meets the effort simultaneously. Okay? That's a ritual form. But, we have teaching then to say, to remind us that the meaning is not in the ritual, it's not in the form, it's not in the ceremony, it's not in the word.

[18:38]

Okay? We had a saying, meaning is not in the ceremony. However, The meaning comes to the place where the ceremony happens. But you could change the ceremony and bring your energy to the ceremony in a different way, in a different way. And the meaning would also respond to that. But how do you think of a form and bring your energy to it? That's the problem. And so that's the nice thing about tradition. You don't have to think every morning you get up and think, now what will the form be? that I would put my attention to. But if you... That's one of the reasons why in Zen we have like the student-teacher relationship. So, that's one of the advantages of student-teacher relationship is that you get up in the morning, you know, at a Zen monastery, you go to the temple, the teacher's standing there, sometimes, in his Bermuda shorts, and his potbelly's picking out with a bottle of beer. He says, this is the practice today.

[19:42]

This is the form. This is the ceremony. And you say, but this is not a traditional ceremony. He says, well, it's not traditional. I never heard a ceremony before, but it's traditional that I show you a form. So let's do this one today. So the student doesn't become a catch they made it to form. And there's other stories like you heard about this. A monk goes to study. with Zen with some teacher, and he comes and says, will you study Zen with me? And the guy doesn't answer, and he says, will you study Zen with me? And the guy doesn't answer, and he says, will you study Zen with me? And the guy finally says, why don't you just sit down and shut up and help me cook dinner? So they cooked dinner together and stuff like that. And I actually was attracted to the form of Zen before I met Ziziguraj, and I came to him to help him with the forms. But after I hung out with him for a while, If he wanted to not do the forms, I would have gone and not done the forms with him.

[20:54]

So if we attach to the forms, of course, that's the big problem. And we attach to the forms when we think the meaning is in the forms. And we attach to the verbal teachings when we think the meaning is in the verbal teachings. So in fact, part of their practice is that people do come, learn the forms, and attach to them, and then beat other people up with them. That's part of what happens in most animal experience, and it's happened right here in this valley. Students have beaten up other students. They said, you're not doing the format. And the person feels, oh god, I didn't do the format. Some people go into Zendo and they just go, they can tell. But it's a way to do things, and they feel like they're just going to make lots of mistakes, and they feel really bad. There's no way to eliminate, except by not having anything here. But still, if they took down the temple and took down the bridge and took all the Zendo, and people still came to this valley, they'd come in and say, there used to be a Zen temple here. You can still make a mistake here today. Probably some way to violate the spiritual, you know, sanctity of this place.

[21:59]

It's not inherent in us, but the very deep archetype called the meaning is in the form. So in Zen, what we do is we offer lots of forms to bring that out, to bring that delusion out, but either way to do it, and then we just play with it, and we massage the way people attach to the forms. And the more precisely we can get people to do the forms, the more precisely it brings up that attachment. If you do a swap only, then you think, see, I'm not attached to the form. A lot of people are really sloppy about forms. They think, ah, that's wrong. But when they learn it precisely, suddenly this demon comes out. That's why it's good to learn it precisely. That's why part of the transmission between the teacher and the student is for the teacher to know very detailed ways of doing these little tiny things so the student can resist because they think the meaning is in form or grab it because they think the meaning is in form.

[23:01]

It's a great opportunity. And you can get hurt in the process, but it's part of the deal. There are some bumps that happen as we veer off and grab things in the process. But that's one thing that Zen offers, which scares a lot of people away from Zen, and they'd rather go to some other Buddhist groups, which I think it's a skillful way to transmit Buddhism to the West, is to have meditation centers where you can lean against the wall and bring your teddy bear. That's fine. Some people won't even come into Buddhism if they can't bring certain kinds of stuff with them. So it's a skillful way to suck people in, get them out in the middle of the ocean, and then take their teddy bears away. I can make a mistake in this place. These people are watching me. Those uptight black world creeps.

[24:05]

Fortunately, there's some people, you know, that have been practicing for long enough so they realize all this is a joke. And those are the people that are, you know, really training the new uptight student. And to find details. And they were taught by their teacher to do things very specifically. And that training is the way we really concretely convey the love of our tradition. To give a form and then convey the true meaning of God. but they're dangerous involved. Like Suzuka Roshi, you know, he sent me to Tassahara to learn chanting from a visiting chanting master, a man who was excellent chanting. So I learned the chanting from him, and I learned it, which would speed me up to saying so. I learned it really well. So when Suzuka Roshi came down,

[25:11]

He wanted to learn the chanting from me because I really learned it so well. And he kind of teased me because I learned it so well. I learned it too well. I learned how to chant in the kind of rural accent of this bold name. And he says, well, Tatsugami Roshi chants that way. It's beautiful, but when you do it, it's really funny. So he had me chant for him. He had me do the chant. I did the chant in front of him. And he just took a little kind of iron and just ironed the chant. Ironed out all those special accents, you know? And it was very difficult for me to be in that position that happened by looking at me, ironing me, flattening me. It was very difficult, but, you know, he needed me to learn that from the other guy and learn it in that detail so that he could come in and touch it, you know, mold it into something which is more appropriate for me. It's hard to, it's hard to do both.

[26:14]

It's hard to keep form and also smooth out, but it's possible, but it's easier to get somebody else to keep doing it when you come in and smooth out. And I could have, you know, once I learned it, then I could teach other people that thing, but I also could beat people up with it. So that's part of the trick. Can you convey these forms with a sense of what they're for? Not correcting people, but giving people an opportunity to bring their self up to the form. You have a very clear form. Each person does it differently. And each person's self shows up in the front very clear. And again, it's as if you're as you said, if I go to a dance and look at you, I don't know who you are. You know, he took one to all this, doing this fantastic movement. He couldn't see who we were. But we all line up in the line.

[27:17]

We all see exactly who we are. Very characteristic way. So that's the, your self gets expressed even in these forms. But then you're also exposed. And will you be criticized and rejected once you show who you are? And people are afraid of that. So it takes a while before people have to trust, put themselves in a situation where they'll show so clearly. When people chant here and we have a chant, we have people get the chance to chant. And as everyone knows here, whenever anybody starts chanting, you really hear them. Each person you really hear. When they make a chant, you really hear each person very clearly that the form is so clear. If the form was vague, you know, then you wouldn't hear the people. If you hear them a little bit, they wouldn't be so clear. Like some people chant Japanese with a Texas accent.

[28:22]

Or a Danish accent. Can you imagine? Or a football player's accent. Or a ballet dancer's accent. Everybody puts their own thing on it. But since it's Japanese, we don't like modify. And so all this different variety that... So you get to see yourself, and everybody else gets to see you. And that's what the forms are for in Zane, I think. It wasn't very deluded. Um, Omer? Um, no, I was just wondering, uh, uh, what, [...] like the same thing. The thing that we, both sides are the same thing, you know, both sides are deluded. It's just that people look over this side, when you look over this side, it, it, it's delusion within delusion. because they're tricked by the name.

[29:22]

And also, if you turn your eyes in that direction, then you're temporarily off track because there's nothing over here. It's all over on this side. It's the same, but really it's all over on this side because that's all we can see of delusion. We're built to function on delusion. So Dolby Zengi said, what is it? A fish live in the water. And no matter how far they swim, they never run out of water. If the fish leave the water, they will die at once. Birds live in the sky. And no matter how far they fly, they never run out of air. If the bird leaves the air, it will die at once. Know that for the fish, Water is light. Light is water. For the bird, air is light.

[30:24]

Light is air. The same is true of human beings. He says, so I tell you, Bob, no, I'll tell you the rest of it, but you didn't write. Human beings swim in delusion. And no matter how far they swim, they never run out of delusion. If a human being Leave delusion. They will die at once. Know that for a human being, light is delusion and delusion is life. For a human being. However, life is not just delusion. It's just us delusion. For fish, it's water. For birds, it's air. And when fish understand that and we understand that, then we and the fish all together are life far beyond in our little deluded world. But if you think that human beings swim in reality, then you'll always be trapped in delusion.

[31:30]

If you know that you're swimming in delusion, and that you leave it to die, and you just swim with your whole heart, then you're a Buddha. And no matter who you meet, you're connected to them by delusion. And you're not better than anybody. You're not worse than anybody. And in fact, the only thing that separates you from everybody, include the vicious and the courage of its illusion. And if you want to know how illusion works, look at how you're separated. That's it. And that's basically all we operate on, is separateness. Without separateness, there's no self. But going into the realm of no self is an enlightenment. Enlightenment is not understanding no-self, understanding enlightenment is understanding the delusion of self. We call that understanding no-self.

[32:32]

But you already knew this, right? You look like you're about to pass out and lack of oxygen. Is that right? No? Passing medicine life left? Yes. Well, show it. I've gone far enough. What do you have to say? Go open the door and let the heat in. Let the sentient beings in. Let the bugs in. Yes? Um, yeah, I have a question about practice. Oh, yes? Yep. Uh-huh. Um, I come from a background with Vipassana practice. Yes. Um, and I'm really enjoying the part of this interview. Yes. Well, but I'm wondering, um, How much intensive student practice, whether it's in or in some other form of retreat, really gives you the experiential wisdom to grasp these teaching other than, you know, relative to living in community or following the forms.

[33:58]

Now, how important is the actual student practice? Oh, don't reject any practice. It seems to me like it's... It's a ceremony to initiate, to be into the meaning of zazen. Okay, zazen can be practiced in any situation, right? But these forms are, like you said, keep, to initiate a student to get a feel for what zazen is. I guess, I guess what I'm asking is about the particular experiences that might occur during sitting practice, where you might, you know, experience, uh, do you think you're connecting with smartphone, or you might experience a dissolution of the body, or things that would give you like an actual sense that That these things are true from your own experience, not just hearing a teacher tell you that they're true or reading a book that says it's true.

[35:01]

So is sitting, what can happen to give you direct experience of this? Or is there any key to having direct experience of this? That's really my question. No, it's not. It's just a ceremony for a direct experience of it. It's just a ceremony. It's a traditional, established ritual procedure for giving this kind of experience. This experience can happen in any situation. Okay? But it also can happen in the ceremony. And often does. So a lot of people are doing the ceremony, sitting up in that room, doing that ceremony. Various things happen to them. Where they get to see what's going on. For example, a person can go up there and sit down. Well, maybe a person could be feeling quite calm. cruising, cruising down Tussar Avenue. During a practice period, feeling really on the ground, present, compassionate, relaxed.

[36:02]

Then something happened, you know, a person maybe thinks of something, right? The person was thinking before, but they were like, you know, thinking stuff, just all flying by, you know. Spending in delusion. And then suddenly a certain delusion comes up, you know, like, it would be good if this place was non-dered. No, no, no, no. Or, another one would be, another one I had was, it would be good if the Founders Hall was resurfaced in a traditional way. You know, you sort of... Okay? You sort of even like this, you know? Right?

[37:05]

And you have these thoughts occur to you, you know? This is Talzahara, never thought. You're a woman, never thought. Okay? That's a stone wall, never thought. It'd be good if this place was non-dairy, isn't it? Okay? It's a delusion, right? It's a delusion. It's a delusion for me to think that you're a woman. It's a delusion. You're not a woman. Everyone agrees you're a woman, but also it's a delusion. It's a valid delusion. Whereas calling saying that your man is a valid delusion. That wants to fold up the argument. People aren't going to go along with that when we have the convention. Okay? But anyway, you're swimming along these various delusions, and then suddenly... You see one of them and you go, you grab it. Like, resurface the wall, resurfacing the wall in Christian, traditional way. That is like really true. I mean, that's really good. And it would be bad not to do that. And good is, and I know what good is, too. So then the guy who was swimming through delusion before, cool monk, is now twisted and turned.

[38:09]

Thrown about. In big waves of poisonous gas. Okay? And this happens. Right here in the outside. Then he trots up to the Xando and he sits down in his seat. And he sits there. And he sits there with all this upset. And he says, here I am. I'm a Zenmonger. I'm about to be calm. I'm about to be present. And I'm about to be attached to all this crap. or even like attached to my idea of what's right. But I am attached to my idea, right? And it's a big mess right here all around me, this big mess. Fortunately, no one knows. You know, because they're looking at the wall. But I'm a mess, and it's very embarrassing. You know, this is like during Zazen, right? Zazen gives me a chance to sit there and stew in this attachment. And stew in the poison that comes from my attachment. Okay? There I am stewing in this Okay? And I got nothing else to do with this ceremony of stewing in this. Okay? And I stew and I stew and I stew. I mean, I'm embarrassed and I'm embarrassed and I'm embarrassed and... I'm embarrassed.

[39:15]

Okay? And Zazel's providing the container, the ritual container for me to feel the consequences of attaching to my ideas. Direct experience of the consequences of attaching to my ideas. Then... A little voice comes up. It says, clearly observe, mine monk. And you just see. You just see what you're doing. You just see. Holy poison. You just see. And you don't even let go. You don't even let go. You don't have to kind of let go. And you just say, clearly observe. And all of a sudden... The ocean of delusion is... You're in the same place, but you're not holding. But you have to suffer like that, in that cauldron, to see the consequences until you just spontaneously drop your attachments, and then you see.

[40:20]

Well, yeah, so this is what it's like when you don't attach to the delusion. There's still delusions, but you're not attached to them, because you shouldn't attach to the delusion, right? We don't attack to delusions. We attack to delusions we think are reality. Like, this is a good person. This is a bad person. This is right. This is wrong. In other words, delusions suddenly become reality. So then what's reality? You must probably grab. And then, of course, toss into hell. Zazen, not to stop you from tossing into hell, not to stop you from grabbing, it's to put your stuff in your face until you see what it is, and when you see what it is, it drops off. Zazen is really providing the context, the ceremony provides the context. The ceremony provides the context for Zazen to happen. Zazen doesn't happen until you see and drop. Then Zazen is realized in the ceremony. But it could also happen, the same turmoil could be happening.

[41:23]

You could be walking down the street, and suddenly the voice comes up and says, clearly observe, and you see it, and you drop it right there, you know, in the parking lot. It can also happen, and often does, during needles. You know? People get quite concerned over the form of dietary impact on something. People are quite concerned. People think it's a matter of life and death sometimes. What goes down the chute? And they get really concerned about it. And if they stay there during the meal and stay present, they can see somebody's concerned about something here, and that concern seems to be causing quite a bit of trouble. And if they see that, somehow they drop their concern. They still may think it's good to be non-dairy, but they aren't holding to it anymore, and they drop it. So the meal provides another concern. Work is another ceremony. Kitchen work is another ceremony. Every situation is, but that's the, what do you call it, the center of the mandala ceremony is the city.

[42:26]

And it does provide the situation for great liberation from delusion. But we are in the delusion all the time. It's just a question of when you see it, you get liberated. If you think of something else, you're trapped. Most of the stories are not about what happened during Zanthan. Because people are sitting there during Zanthan, they're sitting there dropping bodies, mind, you know, not much of a story. Most of the stories in Zen is when it happens in the middle of a conversation. You know, two people are talking, you know, and suddenly somebody gets it, and Charles is right there, and then there's a new thing, you know, word from droplet. And that's the story. Or somebody's walking across a river and they drop. Or somebody's cutting an onion and they drop. Or somebody falls, you know, somebody's flying to the air and they drop. Those are most of the stories because they sort of, but actually most of the time it happens in the zenitho.

[43:31]

High percentage of dropping in realization of teaching happening in the zenitho, most of the story is about what happened in daily life. Part of that because people can see it, but also part of it is because We want to make very clear to people that it doesn't just happen in the city. But this thing that happens there, we call that . When that happens, rather than just dropping and waking up. OK, I could go on, and I will. But we have a call on for us at Green Road. We're in case 48 now. It's about five years, we're in case 48. So we go through these stories week after week. Anything else? It's almost 4.30. Anything to you? Yes? Yeah, I'm trying to figure the way I think people almost, I don't know about me at night, but you know, I just hear that, you know, it can be a benefit to say, well, I've been working the best my whole life.

[44:49]

I wish I was. Right, that's the difference. We're diluted until we die, but if we know that we're diluted, We're not, then we're free. We're not intoxicated anymore. You're only intoxicated when you think delusion is something you should, you know, drink. When you, in other words, when you make delusion into something that's going to help you, rather than delusion something that you live in, basically what you do is you sit upright in the middle of it and respond. So like this story here, you know, this scripture of the Buddha, it's called Thread and Fear and Dread, right? So basically the proposal is, the Buddha's talking to this guy, apparently in Italian, his name is Giannasoni.

[46:03]

Anyway, she's talking to this guy, having a nice chat, and the guy says to Buddha, I understand you and your disciples live out in the forest, in the jungle thicket. Doesn't it get kind of scary out there in the middle of the night and so on when you're sitting out there? And Buddha said, well, if a person has not yet cleared up their mind, they do get scared. But I don't get scared because I'm, you know, I'm clear about what's happening there. And then the conversation goes out a little further and said, if I were to get scared, then if I were sitting, if I got scared while I was sitting, I would just continue to be in the posture I was in when I was scared. If dread and fear came, if those kinds of delusions came and assailed me, what would I do if I was sitting and they came? I would sit. If I was walking and those things came, you know, while I was walking, I would walk.

[47:09]

If I was standing and those things came, I would stand. If I was reclining and those things came, I would recline. That's what the Buddha would do. And if one does that, when assaulted in this way or assailed in this way by greed or fear or dread, then one becomes clear of one's taints, and then they don't come to visit anymore. If one practices that way, then one becomes a Buddha, and then they don't come to sit the sale. And then you can go out in tickets, and you don't have to read it. But even if you do, you should behave like a Buddha. And if you behave like a Buddha, then you will be a Buddha. And then they won't come to visit anymore.

[48:11]

Because there's no mileage for them. Somebody who just continues along their way when they come to visit. If you fight back, they've got job security. If you try to do something different, probably that would be a better way to cope with them. then they're affected. They've got you. If you just respond according to circumstances, if anyone was harmoniously moved with the situation, basically you're in the same place you were before. You're not doing anything. You're not trying to meddle with what's happening. And then also disperse. Okay. Let me check that scripture out. And at the end, you know, that guy, Senor Tantasuni says, I don't know, Buddha says, you may think, Senor, that the recluse, you know, Gautama, is not free from lust, hate, and delusion, even today.

[49:39]

Which is why he still resorts to going off and sitting in the jungle thickets of the forest rest places of the zendo. So people often wonder, why do these enlightened masters keep going up to the zendo? Why do they have to keep doing that practice? And the Buddha said, you might think that I'm still sort of hung up on this stuff. I keep going out in the forest to meditate. They check out whether I got the dread and the fear. But you should not think like this. It is because I see two benefits that I still resort to the remote Zendo schedule. I see, first of all, I see pleasant abiding from myself here and now. It's just pleasant, that's all. It's kind of like the Buddha's country club. They go into the mountains and sit in a meditation hall or out on a rock.

[50:42]

And second, I have compassion for future generations. Just to show the form of sitting like that in the midst of being a human being. So there's a reason they continue. They wouldn't have to, but they do. So then, I said, you're on John Assoni says, Indeed, it is because Master Gautama is the accomplished one, the fully enlightened one, that he has compassion for future generations and continues to follow the Zendo schedule. Zendo schedule. Follow the Zendo schedule. Continue to follow the Zendo schedule, even though you don't have to. Or even if you do have to. But anyway, he didn't have to, but he did.

[51:47]

Out of compassion for future generations. Magnificent Master Gautama. Magnificent Master Gautama. Master Gautama has made the Dharma clear in many ways. As though he were turning upright, that which had been turned upside down, revealing what was hidden, showing the way to one who was lost, or holding up a lamp in the dark with those with eyesight to see forms. I go to Master Gautama for refuge, and to the Dharma, and to the Sangha. Today, let Master Gautama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge alone. Can you say something about revealing what is...

[53:01]

I want to thank you all for letting me come down to Tassel Parra. Yes, Turk. I hope you can stay upright in the wind, in the rain, in the heat waves, in the illusions. Stay upright in it. Like Chukwuni Buddha. I mean, Resolute, pardoned, retolent, gentle, alert, practical, and victimism. And deep wiser for it. That's still something in relation. Good to know a variety of strokes, too. And one of the best strokes of the pathway is to... That's for another day.

[54:13]

Thank you very much.

[54:15]

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