So, conventionally speaking, in terms of action, right speech is abstaining from lying, from divisive talk, from harsh speech, harsh language, and from foolish babble, or idle gossip. Right speech is virtuous verbal karma, from the conventional perspective, verbal karma

[01:04]

of the skillful, virtuous kind. And it involves abandoning wrong speech. It is manifested by abandoning wrong speech, which means to abandon lying, to abandon divisive talk, to abandon harsh speech, and to abandon idle gossip. Not only is it abandoning these, but it also includes doing positive speech in association with each one. So, when we observe the faults of lying and abandon that behavior, then we go on to focus on both telling the truth and on saying things which are beneficial to others.

[02:10]

So, abandoning divisive talk. Divisive talk means saying things which will cause division between people, saying things which will tend to make people feel uncomfortable or distrustful of each other, saying things which will make people respect each other less, and, perhaps incidentally, respect you more. So, abandoning such divisive talk, one tries to engage in actions which will enhance good relationships between people. For example, one may attempt to bring people together after they have some disagreement and assist them to resolve issues if they have not even yet reached agreement. Abandoning harsh words means to give up speaking in a way that causes distress, that causes

[03:27]

or is a condition for anxiety, suffering, worry, and upset. And after abandoning this kind of distressful type of talk, one engages in speech which is pleasurable to others, which is enjoyable for others to listen to, and tries to say things which will be a condition for happiness. Abandoning idle gossip, seeing that a lot of time is wasted in idle gossip, one tries

[04:31]

to always say things which are meaningful, helpful, and apropos to one's spiritual practice. So, practicing right speech can arise even before we have realized right view and right thinking. Even while still having wrong thinking and wrong view, one could still attempt to practice

[05:39]

right speech and could be somewhat successful. And practicing right speech supports the development of right view and right thinking. In other words, one can practice right speech, attempt to practice right speech prior to developing, having developed wisdom. And practicing right speech helps develop and supports wisdom. However, one can also practice right speech after having realized right view and right thinking. In that case, of course, the right speech emerges spontaneously from that wisdom. Again, from the conventional perspective of, again, having wrong view and wrong thinking,

[06:58]

in other words, still being involved in the view that you're separate from others and thinking along those lines. Now, trying to practice right speech will be rather difficult because, for example, telling the truth will be rather difficult because since you see yourself as separate from others, since we see ourselves separate from others, based on that, if telling the truth does not promote the self, poor little self, which is separate from others, it's pretty hard to tell the truth if telling the truth doesn't protect and promote the self, which we think we are pretty much the main person to look after this little self. Since we don't trust the world at supporting us, we don't trust that we can tell the world the truth. We think that sometimes it would be better to deceive, better for our safety and welfare.

[08:12]

Not only that, but in order to deceive effectively, it's better if we don't know that we're deceiving. So when we tell lies in order to protect ourselves, we protect ourselves better, we think, if we don't know we're doing it. So it's pretty hard to stop lying as long as we are not wise, as long as we do not see clearly that it's a delusion to see ourselves as existing separately from these dangerous critters all around us. It's pretty hard to tell them the truth. That's why if you want to, if you're still somewhat deluded and still somewhat believe in your separation from others, it's good to go to another and say what you think is

[09:20]

the truth and tell the other that that's what you're doing. And particularly if you ever should happen to notice that you're being deceptive, it's good to go and to confess your deception. In many cases, if we see some deception and we tell someone else that we're being deceptive, we may find out that we even deceived ourselves as to the extent of the deception. But by telling someone else, the other person could help us see that we have not fully confessed. So the form of going to a teacher and expressing your truth or falsehoods is a form which makes us vulnerable to learning about our deceptive processes. And it's a little bit of wisdom there because you're entertaining the possibility that the

[10:30]

other could help you understand the self. Abandoning divisive talk, which makes divisive talk is where you're talking to other people usually about somebody. You're speaking of somebody's qualities as false in such a way as to lower people's opinion and turn people against somebody. And this is a kind of talk that may not be going on all the time, but a good time to keep an eye out for it is when you're ever in any kind of competition with anybody for some

[11:37]

kinds of benefit to yourself. At that time, sometimes this divisive talk surfaces with sometimes your best friends, people who you usually think basically just positive things about. But if you come into a competitive relationship with them, suddenly you start to notice they're false. And when you start to notice they're false, then that provides you with an opportunity to speak of them. To then refrain from speaking of these false, which you now notice, is the karma of abstaining from divisive talk. But by abstaining from that divisive talk, it helps you turn back and look at your thinking

[12:45]

because you can see the thought arising of this person's false, and you can see the impulse arising to voice those thoughts. And then you might see the motivation for the impulse to voice those thoughts is to protect and promote your side, your case. Then you might also notice that you feel somewhat uncomfortable around that, and by doing this practice of abstaining from voicing these false, which you see in the other, in order to cause divisiveness between that person and their his or her supporters, you start to turn around and see your wrong view and your wrong thinking. Observing wrong view and wrong thinking is the way to build up right view and right thinking. This is how right speech can support the development of right view and right thinking.

[13:48]

Similarly, harsh words, when you feel, when someone does something and you feel the impulse not so much to speak to others about their false, but you wish to speak directly to them about their false in a harsh way, in a way that will upset them, either incidentally or on purpose. Again, to refrain from that helps turn the light around and shine back at what it was, who it is that's talking this way, and how this person probably feels separate from this other person. Or anyway, to what extent you feel separate from this person who you are now thinking of speaking harshly towards. Now, if we speak of another's false or if we speak falsely, it's still not impossible to turn around after that violation of this practice and still study the self.

[15:00]

But I think you can study better and certainly sooner if you abstain. Then you immediately have a chance to start studying yourself rather than spending a lot of time maybe also doing more, what do you call it, covering your tracks kind of thing, like going around saying how that really wasn't harsh and so on. You didn't mean it to be divisive. More self-protective activity can follow if you act on the impulse. If you abstain from it, you already are turning around. Even to notice the impulse and abstain, you're already turning around and starting to see. Again, this is approaching these precepts from the point of view of the sewer. Daily life sewer activity. This is important in case you ever wind up there.

[16:06]

The fourth one is the abandoning idle gossip or foolish babble. In some ways I feel like this is the most difficult one, well maybe not the most, but really difficult at Tassajara. I think although the others may be difficult, at least most people are pretty clear that they're no good. So sometimes it happens right in this monastery that people speak in harsh ways to each other. I've heard of it happened even during this practice period, reports of harsh speech. And I got reports about it because everybody got really upset. The people directly involved and various layers out from this harsh speech. It became like, you know, major practice period history. This harsh speech that seemed to have occurred. And then divisive talk, I haven't seen much of that or heard much about that.

[17:21]

But that's partly because we haven't had a beauty contest yet. The competitive aspect is not that strong in this practice period that I've noticed. Lying, pretty much most of you fooled me so far, I don't know. I haven't noticed any. But maybe some of you have noticed some, either in yourself or others. Maybe some little tiny one, sometime during the last whatever number of days. But the idle chatter thing, now that's a big one here. And partly the reason why it's a big thing is because people confuse being friendly with babbling. And also when somebody, and even if you think somebody else is babbling, you think it's friendly for, you know, and you think they're wasting their time, you think it's friendly for you to join them. Because if you wouldn't, that might be an insult. For example, if you said to them, you babbling idiot.

[18:24]

That would not be foolish babble, that would be harsh speech. Or for example, I'm not going to talk to you this way. You know, I'm not going to get myself involved in this foolish babble that you're doing here. That also might be considered harsh speech. It could also be divisive speech if anybody else was nearby, or you could tell someone else that someone is always talking to you that way, and mention their name. For example, you could tell me, and then I wouldn't know about this person, and think less of them. Maybe. Part of, also part of the divisive, of the, you know, abandoning divisive talk, is that when you hear talk, when someone tells you something about another person that they're having trouble with, or that they don't like, or that they think is a fault, when they tell you, and you hear it, part of that to promote this practice is to ask them if they've told the other person about this,

[19:31]

before they told you. Also, to not believe what they told you, until you verify it, independent of what they told you. And sometimes it's quite difficult, when someone tells you about something someone did, it's maybe difficult to hold that information, kind of in a little waiting area, until you verify whether that actually happened, usually with the person they're talking about. In other words, don't assume it until you've verified it. And also, ask them if they've talked to the other person. If they haven't talked to the other person, then what are they telling you for? What, you know. Now, if they want help, is it because they're afraid to talk to the person in the first place? In which case, they still wouldn't have to tell you what it was, they could just tell you, I have a problem with this person, there's something I want to talk to them about, would you help me talk to them because I'm afraid to talk to them about that? And we could see whether you think that would be helpful and beneficial,

[20:32]

in which case, we can go talk to them. But I wouldn't have to hear what it was. Usually, not 100%, but way up there, certainly in the 90%, when people tell me the faults of others, usually they have not told the other person beforehand. And I send them back, and I almost never hear more about it. Either they don't tell the person, or they tell the person and work it out. But telling another person your difficulties with them doesn't have to be harsh speech or divisive speech. And it's usually not idle chatter, and it's usually not lying. When you think bad things about other people, you're usually not lying. You think, yes, that's your truth. You're not being deceptive, usually. Your vision may be distorted,

[21:35]

but you're not falling for it completely. But idle chatter and gossip, that's really hard around Zen Center. A lot of people don't want to do it, but feel invited to enter into it quite a bit, and don't know how to not get into it in a friendly way, in a kind speech way. One of the ways, again, to support it is to contemplate what you do want to think about and do want to talk about. Do you want to think about the Four Noble Truths? Do you want to observe your thinking? Is that what you want to work on? If so, such talk may be difficult to do while doing your meditation.

[22:36]

If you're really looking at that issue, you might be able to say to the person what you're trying to do. Now, sometimes what people do is when they have difficulty with this foolish babble stuff, what they want to do is do a silence. They want to have a period of silence, because when you're not talking to people, it's easier not to get involved, because some people who would talk to you, who would babble to you quite a long time, if you just said, uh-huh, uh-huh, a few times, will stop if you just sit there and look at them with those quiet eyes. They will see their mouth moving in your eyeballs. Eventually, they will start to, gradually start to notice what they're saying, and they'll see the look on your face, that look, that look. The look could be enjoying this babble,

[23:45]

you know, appreciating the loveliness of a human being babbling. And looking in the eyes and the face of someone who really loves you and really appreciate you, even when you're babbling, tends to calm you down. When you calm down, you have less need of this babble. Or if they look in horror of what you're doing, that also may make you slow down there a little bit. But without a silence thing, it's pretty hard. In that case, you might have to tell the person what you're up to. You might have to tell them, excuse me, you know, I got this problem. I'm trying to practice right speech, and the way you're talking to me right now, I'm kind of getting a little bit disoriented in my practice. I'm kind of like getting spun around by the conversation. And I'm feeling anxious, and, you know, it's not your fault,

[24:45]

blah, blah, blah. But this is not exactly idle chatter. If you stay with it, you're actually telling them that you're getting upset by what's happening here. And they might say, oh. And then you might say, you know, I really would like to practice with you speaking kind of intentionally. And if we're going to play, I'd like to say this is play time, and we're going to do this, some kind of banter thing. Let's do it consciously. And unless we sort of agree consciously to do it, let's just be serious, and, you know, concentrate on our practice here. Is that okay? The person may say no, or whatever. They may say okay. Playing together can be

[25:50]

not a waste of time. Verbally playing can be real, real opportunities to, you know, watch how the mind's working. But you kind of have to, like, be able to stay with it. And it helps if the other person's in the same, has the same intention. Otherwise it's pretty hard. Well, even if you agree, it's pretty hard. And there's some people who I know I've known for many years. And after knowing them for many years, I have consciously said, you know, from now on, I don't want to talk this way anymore. I'm really going to try to just stay present with you and really speak directly from, you know, being with you and not veer away from the, from this thing that happens when we're together.

[26:50]

And part of this babble is the veering away from and not being able to tolerate the awesome silence of being together, which is always there. Even when you're talking, the silence is sitting there. And if you stop talking, you might feel it even more. Which is part of the reason why I asked you to come to Doksan to be in the present, to speak from the present. Because in that presence, this silence is more palatable. And many people express to me how difficult it is to stay with that silence. And I watch many people veer off and go babbling away from the present and I invite them to come back and as soon as they come back, they burst into tears.

[27:54]

It's so intense to be present and quiet. I would like to have a monastery where people could be that way together. That that would be allowed. In Doksan room, but in the Zen Dok, but also up and down the avenue. And then, when we're together, let speech come from there. You know, it's kind of like, who starts it? Two people come together, they both have difficulty finding their place in that awesome silence of meeting. One speaks out of,

[28:56]

to the best of their knowledge, friendliness, but maybe a little bit out of anxiety and nervousness, maybe just a little bit. The other person sees the attempt to be friendly, but may also see the veering away from being present, but not the permission to say, let's stay present. So then the other person, so the second person says, beep, beep, beep, and then they're off to the races, so to speak. Both of them, out of kindness to the other one, throwing away presence. Neither one of them wanting to, both of them wanting to meet, both of them feeling friendly toward each other, but neither one of them feeling permission to sort of like blow the whistle and say, hey. I've told this story before, you know, in the first work period, actually the second work period that I was in Tassajara,

[29:58]

me and a guy named Jim McGuire went up the road and the water line used to cross from the stream above ground through pipes to the reservoir. And during Tangario there was a big storm and the pipes got washed away and broke apart. So he went up there and he put the pipes back together at various places. So there we were, the two of us, putting the pipe together. And putting a pipe together is putting a pipe together, right? And being there when you put a pipe together is being there when you put a pipe together. And being there with another person when you put the pipe together is like that. And not being there is not being there. But we put the pipe together but we weren't there when we put the pipe together. We were sort of there but not really. And neither one of us said to the other one, come on, let's do it. Let's put this together, together. We walked up a little ways and I managed to be the first one to speak.

[31:06]

And I said, let's go back and do it right, or let's go back and do it. And he said, yeah, let's do it. We both knew what it was, but neither one of us dared to say, come on, we all know what this is, let's do it. Because it's hard to say that without being kind of one-upping the other person, like, I noticed it first, you weren't present, we weren't present. But I didn't notice it first, when I said that to him, he agreed immediately, completely, we went back and we did it thoroughly, together. It wasn't me over him, we did it together. And then we went and did the next one together like that. And later, into the practice period, I heard him say something about that event. And I realized how much that helped him for me to bring that up. I knew I liked it, but then I found out, he didn't tell me at the time, but I found out

[32:11]

later how important it was for him, that that was like so helpful to him that we did that together, and that we went back and did it again. There's a way to do this in a loving, kind way. There's a way to be present, and when we veer off, there's a way to call the other person back and also admit, I was there too, let's do this together. So part of the friendly spirit and the kindness, the kindness of the people at Zen Center is to allow a lot of idle chatter, a lot of foolish babble. And a lot of people, out of kindness, are not saying that they feel really uncomfortable with it. They don't know, out of kindness, but also not knowing how to skillfully say they have a problem with it, and not being sure that the others will accept that they have a problem

[33:13]

with this. What? Come on, lighten up! We're just serious practice business. I think seriousness should be allowed, but not used as a bat. We're all serious to be here, but when do we bring it up? How do we bring it up? The previous ones, there's no problem of seriousness. Divisive talk, this is serious. This person's got a serious problem. There, we're not worrying about being serious. Harsh words, this is a bad thing you did, there we're being serious. But this one points to the area where we don't feel we can be serious. So that's the case where we should be serious and we're not, and the other case is where we shouldn't be serious and we are. We should not be serious about other people's faults. This is not a serious matter for us.

[34:14]

This is not a serious matter. What's a serious matter is other people's virtues, that's a serious matter. Serious means seriously related to happiness and liberation, seriously related to nirvana. Nirvana is appreciating other people's virtues. It has nothing to do with talking about other people's faults. Of course, nirvana exists in the center of a world where other people's faults are manifesting and being thought of. But when we see other's faults, we turn around and look at ourself. That's nirvana. Again, this is talk from the dualistic point of view, okay? Now, from the compassionate point of view, things are a little different.

[35:23]

Particularly in relationship to, I think, well, in relationship to harsh speech and idle babble. So, if Suzuki Roshi would be walking along Tassajara and run into somebody who was practicing the precept of not being involved in idle chatter, somebody who was abandoning foolish babble, okay? Suzuki Roshi's walking around, here's this person who's practicing that, but they're practicing it a little bit too rigidly, holding on to it. I am the champion of Tassajara of no foolish babble. If Suzuki Roshi met that person, he might go up to them and start babbling a little bit. So that the person will develop, you know, a gentle, flexible practice around this.

[36:26]

That makes it even more effective. So he might babble to them in that way. Out of compassion for this person who's getting too serious about something that is serious. And harsh speech is, of course, famous in Zen. And there are cases where Zen teachers, even great Zen teachers, have used harsh speech in a way that has not been appropriate, that has not helped the person. That has been so strong that the person, what do you call it, what's the word? Decompensated is a new word, right? They fall apart. It's too much. They crack. The great Hakuin Zenji, you know, he gave a lot of harsh speech during his time. But a very high percentage of his harsh speech was successful in terms of probing and provoking enlightenment in his students.

[37:34]

But in one case, he crushed a student with his harsh speech. When a student gets balanced and they're stable, the teacher may push on that student to see if there's any clinging. And the student may feel perfectly balanced and no clinging. The teacher can push a little bit to show the student where they're holding. And by seeing that holding, can let go and wake up. If the teacher pushes before the student is stable, it's usually not necessary to push before somebody is stable. They're pushing themselves all over the place. They don't need any more pushes usually. What you need in that case is to help them get stabilized. When you're stabilized, a push. Actually, I forgot to bring my whisk. I was going to bring my whisk today as a, what do you call it, visual aid. Some Zen teachers use their whisks and when the monk is talking to them, they flip the whisk in the monk's face. It's kind of a gentle slap. Sometimes they put their hand over the monk's mouth.

[38:37]

Sometimes they yell at the monk. Sometimes they slug the monk. Now, usually, I don't know exactly, but I think usually, one of the advantages of getting old is that you can slug them. Because it doesn't really, you know, hurt them that much. So when you're younger, you have to like, you know, cover the mouth or use the whisk. Or yell not too loudly. But even, what's his name? Matsu yelled at Baizhang and Baizhang was deaf for three days. Another time, Matsu kicked somebody and broke his leg. Of course, both these cases, the people woke up, so it's okay. You know what he called grievance procedures. LAUGHTER One time I was...

[39:41]

On the other hand, one time I was talking to some people from another Zen group and we were discussing having a kind of grievance meeting where a certain teacher had had sexual relationships with students and one of the students of this teacher said, you know, that real Zen teachers don't worry about abusing their students. And this person was talking to me and some other so-called Zen teachers and I said, well, I guess there's no Zen teachers in the room. Do you understand? Because I was worried about abusing students. So I guess his teacher was not in the room at the time. Afterwards, one of those so-called Zen teachers said to me, you weren't serious about that, were you? In other words, if we're worried about abusing students, we're still Zen teachers, aren't we?

[40:47]

So either don't be a Zen teacher or don't have any students if you want to abuse anybody. But there are cases, wonderful cases, where the student is mature, you know, they're like a ripe persimmon and all they need is a little pop and the persimmon will fall and splatter throughout the universe. This is a rare and wonderful moment for the realization of, you know, the student going beyond being ripe, you know, and bringing the sweetness of practice to all beings. Usually they need a little push, usually, often. One of the stories which I've told over and over, some of you have heard is the story of, what's his name, did I tell you the story of this practice period about Isaac Stern teaching in China? Huh? This practice period? You would know. She's the only one who heard it. Amazing.

[41:55]

That was a private meeting. Was it this practice period? And you people didn't hear it? Amazing. Really, she's the only one who heard it? You weren't here, Mia. You heard it, yeah, other places. You heard it during this practice period, Susan? Two of them heard it. You heard it, too, Miffin? So three of you, four of you, the number is increasing. Who wants to join, get on the bandwagon? Anyway, that was a case where Isaac Stern yelled at this violinist while he was playing, you know. He was playing his violin and Isaac Stern yelled at him while he was playing. And he said, sing, sing, sing, you know. And this kid was good enough to keep playing the piece without making mistakes while this big, famous teacher is yelling at him. And you could hear the music shift from being perfectly played to singing. The music started to sing. It's like the violin started singing.

[42:58]

You could hear it. And the boy was so happy, you know. A 20-year-old guy, perfectly, you know, executing the moves, but stiff, you know. He stayed in that little place there of perfection. He wasn't singing, so this teacher pushed him and pushed him, and there he went off into singing. It was so lovely. Sometimes, out of compassion, the teacher has to push, but sometimes teachers make mistakes. It's risky. It's risky. But you look in yourself. Are you yelling at somebody? Are you pushing on somebody? Look inside. Is this really coming from love? Is it really that you look at this person and say, Now, here's a nice, strong person, I think. They're stuck, I think. I love them, I think. I want to push them, I think. Should I push them? Should I push the button? Well, you can check. Would you like me to push your button? Want a button pushed? Want a little shove?

[44:01]

You look like you're stuck. You want a little shove? Some people say, Yeah, please, please, give me feedback. But I still check, usually. Want it? But sometimes I don't check. For example, this practice period, at the beginning, I didn't check whether you wanted me to adjust your posture. Sorry. Is it okay if I adjust your posture? For the rest of the practice period? If anybody doesn't want me to, let me know I won't. I usually check, though, at the beginning. I can't remember to check all the things I thought to check, though, sometimes. And even if I did check, the list would be so long, some people would fall asleep during the checking and say, I didn't say okay. But anyway, that's the thing, you know. Then the upset stimulates and precipitates release. It's not harmful, then. But it's, you never know for sure.

[45:03]

It's the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Now, coming at it from the other side, coming at Right Speech from the side of Right View and Right Thinking, then what you do is you tune in Right View, tune in Right Thinking. You're walking around Tassajara, thinking about the Four Noble Truths. You're sitting in your seat, thinking about the Four Noble Truths. You see, you're meditating on, your eye of wisdom is looking at the truth of suffering, the origination of suffering, the cessation of suffering, the path. It's looking at Right View. It is Right View to look this way, and this is looking at Right View. And Right Thinking. You create this kind of thinking, which is always thinking, you know.

[46:05]

Just this person is it. Just this person is it. You watch this person all the time. Is there any attachment there? Is there any clinging? Is there any grasping of preferences? Is there any leaning? Is there a bias here? Is there uprightness in the middle of this turbulence of self-concern? Just this person. Watching this thinking. Keeping your eye on nirvana. Now what kind of speech comes out of there? The Visuddhimagga says, When one has Right View and Right Thinking, one abstains from wrong speech. Spontaneously.

[47:07]

One abstains from lying, divisive talk, harsh speech and foolish babble. Guided by these two aspects of wisdom, your speech becomes Right. If you're not working in this way with yourself, then try to practice Right Speech from the way I talked before. And that practice will bring you to practice, will guide you to practicing Right View and Right Thinking. When you are practicing Right Thinking, then watch from your Right Thinking and Right View. Watch what kind of speech comes out of there. What kind of speech comes out of being balanced in the middle of your preferences. You like this person really a lot. You're really uncomfortable with this person. These are your preferences. These are your biases. But you sit upright. You don't lean towards the person you like or away from the person you don't like. You stay upright right there.

[48:08]

This disgusting person, you sit right up there. You don't run away from them. You don't try to get away. You don't try to get them out of the room. You're willing to stay with them forever. You're patient with this difficulty of this person. Now what kind of speech comes from there? You really like this person. You want them to stay forever. But you don't lean into that. What kind of speech comes from that uprightness? From that right thinking? Kind speech. Helpful speech. Right speech. The speech of Buddha. So, when you have this kind of speech, its characteristic is embracing. It embraces and sustains beings. Its function is to abstain from any harmful speech.

[49:14]

And its manifestation is abandoning wrong speech. A wrong speech is just dropped. In right thinking, your thinking is dropped. And when your thinking is dropped, your speech is dropped. Dropped off speech comes out of you. And it's always kind. It's miraculously kind. And this speech does not belong to you or the other. It's our speech. It's the whole world speaking through us. Right thinking and right view lets the world speak itself through us. The ultimate right speech emerges from valuing and realizing nirvana.

[50:21]

From valuing great liberation, inconceivable liberation and peace. But, as Myriad Pine says, ten feet of explanation is not as good as one foot of practice. So better to practice one foot of trying to practice right speech in the sewer of dualistic thinking than ten feet of talking about the ultimate practice. Don't overlook the conventional if you can't practice the ultimate. And you can't practice the ultimate if you overlook the conventional. But if you completely practice the conventional, it takes you back to the right thinking and then the ultimate practice comes out of you. Comes through you. When we have right view and right thinking,

[52:01]

all the Buddhas in ten directions are there with us. And all those Buddhas hang their mouth on the wall. And there's still somebody there who's having a good time. Do you know that person? In the midst of right thinking, okay? Right thinking, right thinking. Thinking so thoroughly, so thoroughly that you give your thinking away. Thinking so thoroughly, I prefer this person, that you drop your preference. Thinking so thoroughly, I do not prefer this person, you drop your dispreference.

[53:06]

There you are. Completely alone. There's nobody else in the world. You're totally embracing all beings. And there's still somebody there who's having a good time. Don't worry. Nirvana is not so bad. It's actually a good deal. You get your cake and eat it too. But first of all, you have to give up your cake and eating it, and your thinking, and everything. Practicing. Practicing right view and right speech, you're alone with all the Buddhas who are alone too. And they hang their mouth on the wall,

[54:10]

you hang your mouth on the wall too. This is right speech. Yes, Brooks? When do you have the authority to comment on wrong speech? When do you have the authority to comment on wrong speech? Well, that is a good question. So, I would suggest using it every time you want to comment on anything. Say, do I have the authority to comment on wrong speech here? And if you're talking to one person, that person could say, yes, you do. Then you may say, may I now comment on wrong speech? And they may say, yes, you may. And then you could say, I just spoke wrongly.

[55:11]

Or, I have this fantasy that you spoke wrongly, and here's my story. You want to hear it? And they say yes, and tell them. The responsibility, the authority comes from interdependence with all beings. That's where the authority comes from. So, check it out. The authority to speak does not come from me, does not come from you. I can't get the authority from you unless I ask you. It comes from us together. That's where the authority, together, there can be the authority to study and comment on right and wrong speech. We need to be able to observe wrong speech in the conventional world in order to abandon it. Abandoning it is right speech. Seeing it, understanding it is part of right view and right thinking. Yes?

[56:13]

Carolina. The difference between an extrovert and an introvert, and I haven't studied this, but maybe you know, some people need to verbalize things in order to make sense. It's just part of their thinking process. Yes. And some people do that, and some people are introverts that don't need to do that. Uh-huh. Well, I say, uh-huh. I say, uh-huh, I hear you. I don't agree. You don't agree with them. No. I think everybody needs to verbalize what they're thinking in order to fully understand it. Some people may feel that impulse, like some people feel like they need to verbalize what they're thinking in order to understand it. And they're right. Okay? And maybe those are extroverts. But the introverts also have to... In some ways, the introverts more have to externalize and verbalize what they're thinking in order to understand it, because internally, introverts are usually pretty sharp about what's going on.

[57:17]

They usually know better how their mind is working indoors. And they know so well that they don't feel a need to put it out. They very much need to put it out. The extroverts do too, but they're already doing it probably. The extroverts also have to look inward to see how it feels while they're telling people and talking to people and using the conversation to figure out what reality is. So the extroverts are putting stuff out to try to find out externally what the world is. The introverts are putting stuff in in order to find out what it is. But both need to. Everybody needs to talk. Get it out there. Get feedback in order to understand. But also, everybody needs to look inside and see what's going on there too. Introverts have an easier time going in. Extroverts have an easier time going out. Both have to do the other side. So we all need to get it out there to understand. And extroverts have an easier time in some ways to do it. But also, you know,

[58:18]

introverts have to do it too. Do you have more to say? Yes? Yeah, you're thinking. You're thinking. Internal dialogue is thinking. What about it? I think that's all I was thinking. I think that's all I was thinking. I guess I appreciate my own dialogue, my internal dialogue, and my external dialogue. I know that it's valuable.

[59:21]

And I guess that it's right speech. Pardon? That it's right speech. What's right speech? That the dialogue itself is right speech because it's learning. Are you saying that learning from watching your speech is right speech? Is that what you're saying? No, that the right speech itself is right speech. The right speech itself is what? I've lost it. Well, anyway, I think that studying your speech internally and watching how you speak to yourself, watching the chatter inside, the speech inside, and watching the speech outside, that studying that is essential to develop right speech. So both speaking out alone with nobody else around or with somebody there and speaking internally, just chatter or having a conversation with yourself, both arenas are arenas to learn about just this person. So both are necessary

[60:22]

to realize right speech. If that's what you're saying, I agree with you. I think that's what you're saying. I guess there's differences in people. Pardon? You were saying that there's a difference between introverts and extroverts. And so you've answered the question. Okay, thank you. Klaus? Yeah. I find myself in daily lives, very often people don't want to hear the truth. For instance, what I'm thinking of is being in the office. Somebody calls me, and I don't want to talk to them. I'm busy. Yes. And I tell the secretary, tell him I'm not available. Rather than you don't want to talk to him. Right. I don't necessarily want to offend him. What? I don't necessarily want to offend him. I just want to get the message I'm not available right now and I don't want to talk to him. Sorry, I'm not available to talk to you. Well, then they say, is he there? Right. You say, yes, he's there. Well, let me talk to him. And so I get through this stuff now and again. And what I find myself doing sometimes

[61:23]

is I'm not here. It's taking my voicemail. You know, it's a lie. Right. Obviously, I'm there. Right. So you lie instead of endangering harsh speech. Yeah. Or offending people. Well, harsh speech, saying I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to talk to you right now. So what you do, Klaus, is you get on the phone yourself. Even if you're busy, don't tell your secretary to do it. Right. Not this message. This message is, hello, I love you, I don't want to talk to you. No, I'm not kidding. I do love you and I do not want to talk to you. And I will talk to you later. Okay? And they say, no. And you say, you know, you say, I don't want to keep talking about this. And I do love you. Goodbye. And they say, wait a minute. You say, goodbye. Give me a break. Hola. This is getting into it. This is not harsh speech. This is loving speech. Okay? But don't tell your secretary to tell lies for you. No, I don't. And also,

[62:25]

don't tell your secretary to tell them that you don't want to talk to them. It's a truth. Yeah. But say it yourself. Oh, yeah. So they can feel the kindness of your lack of interest in talking to them. That's just where you are, you know. I want you to know this is where I'm at. I don't want to talk to you. And if I talk to you now, it's not going to be a good conversation because I'll resent it. Give me a break. Let me wait until I give it to you. Someday I'll want to talk to you. I know I will. They don't want to hear that maybe either, but they sort of do. They sort of want to hear how you really are. Kind of they do. Kind of. But they sure don't want to hear a lie although they'll go along with it. He's not there? Okay, fine. They know the secretary is lying. Little Buddha is over there. Okay, Klausi, that's one against you. Yes. So work at that. That's tough. That's real tough.

[63:26]

Real tough. You got to be present to say, okay, I don't want to talk to this person. That's where I'm at. That's your thinking. There's my thinking. I don't want to talk to this person. No preference. No preference. I just don't want to talk to them. What do you do? You say, I don't want to talk to you. You have no preference to that. If they say, yeah, but you have to. You say, huh? What? No, I don't have to. You say, no, I don't have to. You're talking to him anyway. And you're talking, you're talking to him honestly from your upright position. This is kind speech. You're telling the truth. You're not getting angry with them. This isn't necessary yet. Okay. But it's hard to be there. It's hard to be there like that. It's hard to like really be right on the thing and say right where you are, how you are at that moment. But that's right view. That's just this person. Just this person, Klaus. Just this person right now. This is where I'm at. World, this is where I'm at. Then everything, you lose everything, you know.

[64:32]

You can't remember what it was you were doing. Everything drops off. And the point of your life is realized. What is my job again? How come I was so busy? Ah, forget it all. Forget my job. Forget my money. Forget my family. Forget my fame. Forget everything. Just, I don't want to talk to you. And that doesn't mean anything. It's just a thought. And right thinking is to think that thought wholeheartedly and saying, I don't want to talk to you. And I just gave it up. What's happening, sweetheart? And there it is, you know. But who can be there, you know, for that? That's the Buddha that speaks right. Your, my mouth is on the wall. Now Buddha's talking. Anything else? That shut you up.

[65:35]

That's supposed to shut you up. Yes? What about that one? Yeah, and then afterwards you said, I didn't lie. That wasn't a lie. I didn't mean to deceive. I was just trying to get you guys out of the house. That's a compassionate level. You know? Well, afterwards he didn't, it isn't that he told them afterwards. They came out. He said, you know, I got three kinds of, three kinds of carts. They came out and saw one. He didn't have to tell them. They saw. What he did tell them though was, I wasn't lying when I did that. I just did that to get you out of the house. So, look in yourself. Are you really doing it to get him out of the house? If that, if so, then you should lie. As a bodhisattva, you should lie

[66:35]

in order to get him out of the house. If telling the truth, they'll stay in the house. You shouldn't tell them the truth. You should lie. You should say, you know, you say, that house isn't safe. They say, it's safe. Don't worry. That house isn't safe. It's safe. Don't worry. I got some money out here for you. Okay, they come out. And actually, he gave them more money than they expected, a better thing than they expected, but he didn't give them what they expected. It's called skillful means. Is it really coming from compassion? Is it really selfless? And some people say, some people say, the Buddha should not have said he had three kinds of carts. He should have said he just had one. That's what Dogen Zenji says. He shouldn't have said he had three. But if you only say you have one,

[67:42]

they might stay in the house. And you have no disciples. You have no disciples. Even though the one that you have is really the best one, they don't want that one. So they won't come. It's tough. Yes? What if your boss asked you to lie? What if your boss asked you to lie? So, what if your secretary and your boss asked you to lie?

[68:43]

Okay, I'm a secretary. My boss asked me to lie. So, what do you mean? what it what do you what do you what are you asking me a question or what's what's happening here now are you asking me what does what the person should do depends on what the person wants if the person's highest priority to keep the job that's one thing if the person's highest priority is right speech that's another thing what's the case with the secretary does she want to practice right speech does she okay you suspect let's say she'd like to keep her job too well first of all what you can do is you can say the boss you can say you know I have a problem I have a problem doing that and maybe that already will get her fired anyway it's pretty easy for me to say that somebody else what they should do but anyway if the person wants to practice right speech and not practice lying then if somebody asked you to lie on their behalf it still counts for you

[69:52]

to lie now does that actually help anybody does it really help your boss and help the person if it doesn't help your boss and doesn't help the person then you're hurting the boss hurting the person and you yourself are hurting yourself do you want to do this to keep your job in other words does it really help you to do something which hurts you and hurts other people do that really help you I mean does it you say well how about just getting killed if you don't do that well you say well that would help me so much that would help me to live longer and have a chance to practice longer I'm gonna die maybe I would lie if it hurt the other but what if what if it hurts the other people if it hurts the other people a bodhisattva should give away their whole practice the whole opportunity to practice more should give away for the benefit of the boss and the person they're lying to they should die if that's what it takes now of course as

[70:57]

soon as you do that for that reason you immediately go to heaven bodhisattva heaven right like that before you even get killed you're immediately in nirvana right that that but not in not even regular body nirvana but bodhisattva nirvana okay Roberta but who can be there and be that present to say okay I'm being asked to lie does this help this person does it help the other person no no okay I don't do it then that's my bodhisattva vow in that case now if it helps the other person it helps the boss to lie and helps the other person to lie then even if I get in trouble for it I should do it if it helps them I should lie even though it will hurt me I should do it that's what the Buddha would do under those circumstances yes yes

[72:05]

yes well basically when you have pain often there's a preference when you have pain you know you're thinking this is pain and there may be a preference to get away from the pain okay to not lean into that preference is right thinking right thinking is then all the Buddha's and ten directions will come when you're in pain and you think of an alternative to the pain leaning into that is wrong thinking and that wrong thinking blocks all the Buddha's in ten directions from coming and sitting with you when you don't lean into that preference or that idea of an alternative to this pain when you just have no alternative to this pain you realize right thinking and all the Buddha's are there with you that's exactly precisely what Shakyamuni Buddha did he gave up alternatives to his pain

[73:12]

and realized Buddha when you do that you are Buddha and all Buddha's are with you but if you lean away into an alternative to this pain you lean away from all the Buddha's you say bye-bye I don't want to see Buddha and Buddha says okay when you're coming back here never I don't I want to I want to be an alternative land not Buddha land if Buddha land hurts it doesn't hurt actually what really hurts is alternative to pain that's what really hurts we can sit and give up alternatives we realize freedom from pain giving up alternatives to pain you realize freedom from pain and not only freedom from pain you also get lots of friendly company to enjoy the freedom with all the Buddha's are there with you but the Buddha's do not run away

[74:13]

from that pain they also have preferences coming up or wouldn't it be nice to be someplace where there isn't pain they have that thought Buddha's can think but they don't lean into their thoughts they just sit there in the middle of the pain with their pals which is all sentient beings and all Buddha's are connected to that spot you veer away from that pots about you abandon all sentient beings and you say bye-bye to the Buddha's you come back to that spot with no alternative you embrace all sentient beings and all Buddha's come to enjoy being with you that's conventional and ultimate truth simultaneously that's where Buddha's all Buddha's sit in that place in the midst of the fierce flames of pain but it's not easy if you lean a slight bit into those preferences or to

[75:15]

alternatives you basically lost it and it's not easy to not lean at all it's not easy especially it's not easy to lean towards especially it's not easy to avoid leaning towards pleasant things because when you lean towards pleasant things it's not that bad so we get used to leaning towards pleasant things we so then when painful things come we've got this basic habit of leaning now leaning towards painful things they immediately get much worse so not only do we is it hard not to lean into painful things lean away from painful things I mean because we have the habit of leaning towards pleasant things not only is that hard to avoid even though it makes it worse but it's even harder not not to lean towards pleasant things especially extremely pleasant things like Nirvana Buddha's don't even lean towards Nirvana they value it they think it's the best

[76:16]

thing but they don't lean towards it they just sit upright and realize it they don't have a preference for freedom therefore they realize it they don't have a preference for samsara therefore they're liberated from it they don't have a disgust okay so that's uh you know that's just a little squeak about right speech right that's nothing but that's what happened today here at Tassajara how you doing got some pain hmm how you doing with it huh pretty upright with it congratulations

[77:25]

sorry that's all the Buddha s just sit upright in the middle of your pain that's all the Buddha's doing for starters once you sit upright then you can and your hands come out and embrace all beings embrace your lovers and embrace the beloved embrace the beautiful and embrace the ugly the repulsive the obnoxious no problem is that enough

[78:06]

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