Sometimes, the dualistic life is called the near, because it's pretty familiar, right? And the non-dual way of life is called far, or sometimes when some Zen teachers are talking about, again, dualistic meditation practice, it's called the near, and non-dual meditation practice is called far. It's far because it's hard for us to understand non-dual things, because our ordinary consciousness is dualistic consciousness, so it understands dualistically. So it's hard for it to understand non-dualistically, or non-duality.

[01:04]

It's not very well equipped to understand non-duality, because non-duality is inconceivable. So in that sense, non-duality is far away, seems far away, from the dualistic point of view. But it's like a family there. But Dogen Zenji says, we do not esteem or despise the near, rather we become adept at the near. And we do not esteem or despise the far, rather we become adept at the far. So in other words, we don't esteem or despise the world of karma, the world of pain, the

[02:12]

world of bondage, the world of duality, we don't esteem it or despise it, we don't like it or dislike it. It's just what it is, and we become skillful at it. And also we don't esteem, we don't like or dislike the world of non-duality. Even though it is the world of freedom, we don't like it or dislike it. We'd rather become proficient or skillful at it. And again, non-duality would never, wouldn't be any preference of duality over non-duality. Duality, this is the world we prefer. Some people in the dualistic world prefer duality over non-duality. They think they do anyway, because they can understand it and work with it. But anyway, preferring anything over anything as duality or non-duality doesn't have any preferences. So this non-preferential attitude towards duality and non-duality is a non-dual attitude.

[03:16]

But in either case you become proficient at it. So don't think I'm recommending that you practice non-dual practice. I really recommend it better. I'm just saying that you have to practice it if you want to be free, that's all. If you want to be free, then I'm saying you have to do it. I'm not recommending that you be free. Because I don't really think it's better if you're free than if you're in bondage. Even though I wish you were free. But I don't think what I wish is better than what I don't, than what's happening. You can want something for somebody... This is hard for people to understand. You can want something for somebody without wishing that they would be different. Like if you have someone you love and they're suffering, you can want them to be free of suffering without wishing they were different from what they are. In other words, they're suffering, but you don't wish they weren't suffering.

[04:18]

Because they are. And it's kind of an insult if you wish they weren't. Because they are. They're fine the way they are and you wish they'd be free. I think those two go together really well. You can also, of course, wish that they were free and not like the way they are. But the problem is, if you don't like the way somebody is and wish they weren't that way, and want them to be better or free of that, that thought you have sometimes keeps them in that state. Because they feel kind of like disrespected for the way they are. And they kind of say, Well, I think I'll keep being sick. Since you don't disrespect me, I'll just keep being sick. And I'm not going to get better if you don't like me being sick. Do you know that? Do you know about that thing? It's like some poor people.

[05:24]

You maybe wish that they weren't poor, but if you look at them like there's something wrong with them, and wish that they were poor, they want to stay poor. They want to kind of stick up for their family's situation. Do you know that feeling? Somebody comes in and looks at you like, You poor slob, I wish I could help you. I want to stay being a poor slob, if that's your attitude. When I was a little boy, my parents got divorced, and so my mother wound up with three kids to take care of, and my father wasn't being particularly helpful after he left. There was a couple, they weren't exactly rich, but they were pretty well off, and they had no kids, so they had this nice big house, but nothing, no kids in it, right? And they wanted a kid in it. They wanted a boy, just my age. I didn't exactly understand what was going on, but they talked to my mother about maybe taking me off her hands,

[06:29]

so she wouldn't have so many kids to support. And then they would have this boy to take care of. So they brought me over to their house a few times, and, you know, had me for dinner and stuff like that, and they kind of made it look really good to live at their house. I mean, they put on kind of a party every time I came over. And they even told me I could bring all my friends with me too. So every time I went over there was like this party, right? And they just lavishly entertained me. Which, of course, you don't normally do with your own kid, right? So it was a little bit weird. And gradually I got, gradually, one day they kind of settled, they kind of set me down and kind of brought the topic that kind of, you know, you could actually live here, you know, and that would be easier on your mom, and, you know, we'd love to have you, and, you know, you'd be rich. I was about 11.

[07:32]

And, you know, I loved my mom, but somehow more than loving my mom, I just felt loyal to our poverty, you know, and I felt like, better to stay home with my poor mom than go in this rich house. It's kind of like leaving my mom behind, you know, and it just didn't seem right. It's kind of like there was something wrong with us, that we were not very, you know, that we were having a hard time. I just didn't, I didn't, I couldn't go for it, so I just stayed home. And, but, you know, they were very nice. So, if there's some way to help people, there is a way to help people without sort of putting down where they're at, you know. So that's why you don't, you don't start with people, you don't, you don't like, you don't have to like see something wrong with someone in order to want them to be free of their problems. There's something not wrong about us being screwed up. There's something, there's something beautiful about the way we are, even though we, even though we could be more free

[08:40]

and more enlightened. As a matter of fact, the way we are right now with all our problems, exactly the way we are right now without doing anything, is Buddha. So, to want us to be fully realized, that's good for us and for others to want that, and yet it doesn't mean that we have to be better than we are. It just means we have to be more what we are. We have to be more actually the way we are, rather than like a little bit less and then we'd be okay. Or a little bit more of something we aren't yet. So, Susan asked me, she said, well, what about like worldly things like getting a house or something like that or having a business? And, well, I kind of answered that last night which was sort of in response to Gordon's question. Is Gordon here? He was saying, you know, about well,

[09:42]

if somebody's really having a hard time, and you think there's something you can do for them, well, shouldn't you do it even if it's dualistic? And again, I have two answers to that. So, about getting a house or something like that or helping somebody who's sick, if you approach it dualistically, let's just say you're going to, you can do that, and actually in some ways what I think is most reasonable is to wholeheartedly do the dualistic activity you're doing. Don't try to like, you know, gradually reduce the amount of duality. That's like this thing, that example, I gave you the example of pulling the bowstring, didn't I? Didn't I? There's this book called Zen and the Art of Archery. Not in the motorcycle, but Zen and the Art of Archery. And in archery, the one archery teacher said, you pull the bow back and you hold the string until the string just goes. You don't let go of the string yourself.

[10:43]

You just hold the string back until it just goes without you letting go of it. Until the string is released, but not by you. So this guy got this idea of how to let go of the string without letting go. And that was he just kept, every moment he would hold the string half as strongly. He'd hold it half as strong, [...] half as strong. Finally, it went. And as soon as it went, the teacher said, get out of here. He kicked him out of the practice place. He said, don't come back. You cheat. So you don't figure your way out of duality by becoming kind of less and less dualistic. You get out of duality by being just, not more and more dualistic, because you can't really get more dualistic.

[11:45]

You're already dualistic enough. And even if you try to be less dualistic, that doesn't make you more dualistic. And if you try to be more dualistic, that doesn't make you more dualistic. You can't be more dualistic. But what you can do is you can be more wholehearted about being dualistic. That's not more dualistic, that's just more wholehearted. And wholehearted means you're just exactly as dualistic as you are, and no more and no less. And that in itself is not dualistic. So if you're trying to build yourself a house, or if you're trying to help somebody who's sick, and you're doing it in a dualistic way, like you don't think I'm building the house, I'm making the money, I'm helping the person, that's dualistic. But if you do it wholeheartedly, then you can see that the very way that you're dualistic, that is not dualistic. Okay, listen to that. Dualistic is dualistic, but dualistic being dualistic is not dualistic.

[12:49]

Bill is dualistic. But the fact that Bill is dualistic is not dualistic. Bill is dualistic because Bill is not Cindy, that's Bill and that's Cindy, they're not the same, that's dualistic. But that being that way is not dualistic. Bill is separate from Cindy, Cindy is separate from Bill. But that separateness being just that separateness is not separate from anything. Everything is that way. There's no separation in the way things are dualistic. So rather than try to like gradually be less and less dualistic, it's more like be more and more mindful of exactly how you're dualistic. And when you're completely perfectly mindful of the way you're dualistic, you'll see you're not dualistic. In other words, more and more mindful,

[13:54]

more and more wholehearted about how you're separated from other people, then you realize that you're not separate from other people. Or another way, your separation is not separation, your separation is connection. But if you're not wholeheartedly separated, you can't really realize that you're wholeheartedly connected. If you hold back and try to pretend like I'm not really separated from you, I don't really think I'm independent of you. You stay away from that sense of separation, you also stay away from the connection. It's right in the separation that you're connected. Exactly like it is. So, I don't... I want to give the impression like that the path of freedom, the path of non-dual practice, is kind of like gradually sucking the blood out of duality. And it's not by pumping up duality, it's just having duality just exactly like it is,

[14:57]

and when duality is just exactly like it is, it's non-dual. I mean, it's not that then the duality is non-dual, it's that the wholeness of duality is non-dual. The way duality really is, is non-dual. The way you really are is non-dual. So you should wholeheartedly do your work. Everything you do, all the things you do in the dualistic realm, you should do them completely... you should be adept at it. You should be adept at your laughing, you should be adept at your crying. You should cry wholeheartedly. You should laugh wholeheartedly. You should walk wholeheartedly, you should sit wholeheartedly, everything you do should be that way. And when it's that way, then your walking will not be walking, your crying will not be crying, you will not be you. Everything will be liberated. So the basic principle here is the principle of...

[16:02]

like this morning Bruce was saying, well the Heart Sutra kind of wraps the whole thing up, doesn't it? Like no eyes, no ears, all that stuff? Yeah. But when we say no eyes, it doesn't mean you don't have any eyes, it means when you really have eyes, you don't have eyes. When your eyes are really your eyes, you don't have eyes. When you really have your heart, you realize your heart's not a heart. I mean hearts are pretty good things, but when you really have a heart, you realize the heart is not as a heart. It's not that you don't have a heart, it's that the heart you have is not a heart. A heart's a good thing, but a heart's not as good a thing as a heart being free of a heart. In fact, your heart is free of itself. So if you have pain,

[17:10]

you should be... If you feel pain, it isn't that we esteem pain in Buddhism, we don't despise pain, we are adept at pain. And if you really get adept at the pain you have, moment by moment, you will realize that the pain you have is not pain. So that's the basic principle of Heart Sutra, is the very fact that pain is pain is the reason why pain is not pain. The fact that A is A is the reason why A is not A. But what is it? What is it then? The pain... When you get really adept at pain, then pain is no longer pain.

[18:13]

What's happening then? It's not so much that it's no longer pain, it's that right while it is pain, the very fact of it being pain is not pain. What's happening then? What did you say? Yeah. Then you're in the world of what's happening rather than the world of pain. Recording or experiencing sensation. Sensation. Pardon? The pain then is just sensation. Just... Well, let's say it was sensation in the first place. Okay? But you were kind of in the realm of its sensation, and the sensation it is, is pain. You think that pain is pain. In other words, you think that what you think pain is, is what pain is. Okay? This is the world of pain. But when you let... When you realize that what you think this is, is pain, and you realize how that is,

[19:15]

you realize it's not so, that things aren't really happening that way, you just think so. Something changes there. Yeah, something changes, right. You change from being stuck to being free. You... You switch from things being things, you switch from a life of things to a life of what's happening. And what's happening is things can happen. Are there then states of consciousness in which... I mean, of regular life, of not being enlightened, that in which the observer is not there,

[20:17]

because there are states of consciousness in which one is not, or one may be aware, but not observed. There is no split, and there is no observer observed. And those are possible without me being free of freedom. Well, I don't think it's freedom because... It doesn't sound like freedom to me because I don't hear you being free of anything. I just... It's like... Alcoholics are not free of being an alcoholic just because there's no alcohol around. All right, so you are saying something else. It's not just a perception of the absence of the observer. It's something else. It's a transformation, of course. Say that again? It's a transformation, of course. No, say the whole sentence before that. It's not just that...

[21:18]

It's not just that the... that... that there is no split between experiencing and the experience itself. It's not just that, no. It's not just that. No. So, say more. It's that... It's that even while there is separation between experience and experience, OK? You don't fall for it. You don't fall for it. No, really. But if you fall for it, then there is a self there. Fall for it. Yeah. But if that self is not there, I think to the extent that you can... If the self is not there, then there is no issue. Right. And then, is that the state you are talking about? No. That's just a rather unusual perception for people. Buddhism is not about some special state. It's about when you...

[22:19]

It's about being in the state where most people are caught and not being caught. It's about... It's about being with alcohol and not being alcoholic. It's about being with delicious food and not, you know, being greedy for it. But... Yes? It can be enjoyable. What can be enjoyable? The good food can be enjoyable. That's what good food is, isn't it? Yes. It's not forbidden to be joyful. It's not forbidden to be joyful? No. It's not even forbidden to be miserable. Nothing is forbidden to be enlightened. They can be miserable or joyful, you know. You can go up to an enlightened person and just turn the knob, you know, turn the knob to miserable, to, you know... And then they got a miserable enlightened person, they're completely free of it. Then you turn the knob back to joyful, they're completely free of it. They can be joyful or miserable, it doesn't matter to them. They're free. In other words, they're always happy.

[23:21]

They're never... They're always joyful, no matter what happens. And they can also perceive separation between themselves and others. But they understand how that happens, so they don't... They're not tricked by it, not tricked by their perceptions, because they understand how their perceptions are made. They're right there in the magician's workshop. They see how the magician conjures up the sense of self and others, so they don't fall for it. They're not the magician, but they see how the magic works. So they are joyful, but they're not fooled by the processes of perception. Okay? And if there are some states where the normal difficulties don't arise, that's okay. But then, that doesn't matter, then nobody's got a problem with that. Nobody's got a problem with, like, you turn off all temptation, you know, take all temptation away, and then people don't have any temptation. But most people, as soon as you bring the temptation back in,

[24:22]

they just click right back in, so they just had a little vacation. And I have nothing against vacations, except it's... unless the vacation is taking part of your lifetime, and then if you don't work on your vacation, it's too bad, because then when you come back to work on Monday, you, you know, you mutilate people again. Yes? You did that. When I go back to the pain, I... I'm going to be real vague here. Sure. I break my arm, and it's blistering, and it's burning, and it hurts. Yes. Pain. If I look to that pain and fully experience that pain, and see that pain, the pain goes away? No. No, it isn't that the pain goes away. Your arm's probably still blistered and uncomfortable. Okay? But you realize that the pain is not pain. Before you... before you had a problem with your arm, right? Plus, you also thought

[25:23]

this is pain. And you... and also probably you believed it was pain. Okay. It's blistering, it's not pain. It's blistering, and giving you some sensation, and your body's uncomfortable with it, and, you know... Okay, that's... The true pain is separation. Hm? The true pain is separation. But the pervasive pain, you know, is the pain, and the pain that's optional, is the pain coming from our own mind, that we say this is pain. And that we think we can do something, we think we can avoid this, or we can do something about this. It's the same world. Well, I think I'll continue to feel it, but I have no attitude about doing it. You continue to feel it, but you will be in a state of peace and bliss with the problem with your arm. The Buddha Shakyamuni

[26:23]

was in a state of non-stop bliss and peace and freedom from the time of his awakening. Okay? But he had physical problems. He actually had back problems for most of his teaching career. He was a person with back problems, and towards the end of his life, he got actually quite sick. He got dehydrated, he vomited, you know, he had dysentery, you know, he got really sick, and he had a hard time, it was hard for him to walk, you know, and he had some problems with his body. The Buddha did. But the Buddha was completely that, what he was, and therefore he was not what he was. He was free of what he was. But most people, when they're in pain and pleasure, hold back from that, they aren't present with that. They either wallow in their pain, which is not really present, or they shrink back from it,

[27:26]

or it becomes excessive about some way to get away from it. Okay? Therefore, they're not happy. But if you're in pain from some disease, or some injury, or whatever, if you're in pain because of that, and you're completely present with that, you realize that the pain you have is not pain. But it isn't that the pain goes away, it's that you become enlightened to realize that what you think is happening is exactly not what's happening. So you can be free no matter what's happening with your body. And you can have all kinds of ordinary and special perceptions and experiences, but it doesn't, they don't touch you. Because you are actually always changing and blossoming into this new form of life.

[28:28]

And you're always completely happy with this new form of life, this new form of life, this new form of life. But if you don't, if you aren't adept at what's happening, then you feel stuck in what's happening. And then you think pain is pain, you're stuck in pain. But if you're willing to completely experience your pain, you're not stuck in pain. You're not stuck, you're not stuck, even, even your, even your arm pain is changing all the time. Pardon? Yeah, right. Yeah. And also, if you, also if you know that you would never kill anything, you're not afraid to die.

[29:31]

If you know that you would never kill, you wouldn't be afraid to die. And also you wouldn't be afraid of being killed. And you might be killed, but you wouldn't be afraid. You'd only be afraid if you could, if you in your mind thought you might kill something else. If you think you might kill something, then you would be afraid of being killed. No. No, no. A little bit different. If you're afraid of being killed, it's because you're not sure that you would never kill. But if you know that you would never kill, you wouldn't be afraid of being killed. You'd feel, if you know you would never kill, you'd feel secure. And even though someone might be killing you, you wouldn't, you wouldn't frighten you. Because you'd feel, when you know you're not going to kill, you'd feel secure. Or put it the other way around, when you're really secure, you would never kill. You would never kill if that's secure

[30:39]

in your blue. What about morality of that? What happens if you were faced with this? You're sitting in a room. Oh, yeah. Where's that guy? He's supposed to ask me that question. So. You can say Hitler, but you had another one. What did you have? What if you're being robbed? Or what if you were being attacked? A non-dual response would be to show devotion to your attacker. Yeah. Would then not self-defense be a dualistic response? So, he said attacker, now you want to say Hitler's coming after me? No, in fact, it's not threatening yourself. I would think this is some morality of... Can we have his persons here? Yes, we can. Okay, so attacker's coming at you. He's right. The non-dual response would be to be devoted to your attacker. Okay? So that's the answer.

[31:40]

Right. So what's the question? Well, the question would then be self-defense is a dualistic response. Because self-defense when someone's attacking you is one of the most devoted things you can do. Or even harming. There's a story of the person who founded Judo. His name was Jugaro Kano, I believe. And he was on a ship. I believe in... I think he was a ship in the Indian Ocean or something. And there was some big guy on the ship who was going up and down the deck and pushing people around or something. I don't know. Anyway, he's threatening everybody and being real rough with everybody. And Jugaro Kano is a Japanese man. Small little Japanese guy. And the guy came to him. He took the guy and threw him in the air. Flipped him in the air. And put him back down on his feet. Without hurting him. This is a bit in a high level self-defense, right?

[32:41]

He defended himself. He defended the other people but he also did it in such a way that the other guy really got the message that they were being defended. Okay? And that was, I would say, an act of real devotion to this guy because that guy really got kind of like woke up to what was going on. He saw his own power was really his own fault for failing. Because in Judo you use... when the person comes you use their energy. You use it. You take... A small person can take a big person who's got a lot of energy and you just guide their energy to... to... to protect everyone. Judo is called the gentle way. Judo... Judo means gentle. The gentle way. So you use devotion to an attacker would mean self-defense almost always. It would be kind... It would be protecting yourself. It would be protecting others. It would be protecting this person from doing any harm. So devotion would be self-defense if someone had malicious intent. Definitely. And that would be non-dual.

[33:44]

To be kind to your attacker is non-dualistic. What about... Okay, now let's do the Hitler thing. May I ask you a question? Let's say you're not threatened. You're sitting in a room and Hitler is in fact falsifying his plan to to find a solution. Yes. And you see him there. You're intimate with him. Yes. And you're devoted to him. Yes. As a Buddha. You realize that's his Buddha self. Yes. And what you said before if you really want to promote you'd like to make him well perhaps. But if you really want to in a logistic way what you really want to do is promote his Buddha self which in this case is his plan to annihilate six million people. If you are intimate with him and you are devoted to him it seems to me and in your own Buddhistic self it seems you have a couple of choices. You can in fact promote his Buddhistic self.

[34:47]

You can promote and aid him in his plan. That would really be true compassion for this man. You can realize that you're intimate with him you're devoted to him you may be no different than him under different circumstances. In fact you are the same as him. So you promote you can promote his plan. And is that Buddhistic? Or you could try to I guess that would be Buddhistic you would try to talk him out of it. Or you could kill him. Now what you're really talking about is devoted to him. You're promoting his Buddhistic nature which is self-evident. Is that what you're saying? So I would think that what a really skillful Buddhist teacher would really skillful Buddhist teacher could have got close to Hitler. What they would have tried to do even before they found out what he was up to would be to try to liberate him from his you know his own misery. Hitler was a very miserable person.

[35:49]

Very unhappy guy. Had tremendous tremendous violence in himself. Very abused violent person who wanted to make get the world under control. He's a perfect example of people trying to get they have a very hard time suffering a lot and their response to the suffering is ill will. You know Buddha meets a person that's suffering which is most people who's trying to get control of the world. Hitler was trying Hitler and other Nazis were trying to get the world under their control. They were trying to make the world beautiful and they were happy to use violence in order to do so. They had an idea that for example Jews and other variations on the world's population should be eliminated and there should be just one type of person in the world. That would be their idea of a gorgeous world. It's a very poor world but that was their idea of control and they would use violence to do that because they felt that if the world was messy

[36:52]

which is what it is that would hurt them. So they were going to use violence to make the world simpler and under control. This is what most people are like actually. Most people will go to violent extremes under certain circumstances to get things under control for themselves. The Buddha meeting a person like that would try to help the person turn around and look at his own suffering. And if Hitler could have if somebody could have helped Hitler to do that he wouldn't have needed to get Germany to be the way he was trying to be. That's what I think a Buddhist teacher would try to do. They would try to help Hitler be Hitler and Hitler was a suffering frightened person in a country full of suffering frightened people. Those people were frightened. They got frightened. They were frightened people. Easily manipulated

[37:54]

by his demagogic powers. That's what I think the person would do. Help Hitler turn around and face what it's like to be Hitler. A suffering frightened violently reactive person. But given that capacity you are in fact trying to change him. No. No. No. You want him to be free but you realize that the only way he can become free is by turning around and facing who he is. If you try to change him before he knows if you get him into changing Hitler's into changing. He wants to change the world. He wants to get rid of these people. He's into changing and making it a certain way. You have to teach him to stop trying to change things and start facing what's happening. Like Germany just before the Nazis took over had the most in some ways the most vivid and flourishing

[38:56]

art in Europe. In many dimensions. Wonderful artists and particularly painting. They had great painters and the painters in Germany were painting were expressing the fear and the torment and the violence of German society. That's what the painting that you know if you look at German painting this great painting that was going on it was showing what was going on in the German heart and it was ugly but it was beautiful that they showed it. When the Nazis came in they eliminated all that great art which was showing what was going on in their own hearts. And the paintings that they promoted as part of the painting were paintings like you know scenes with healthy looking people sitting around you know a nice table with good food in the table or you know pictures of healthy young German people out in the forest or something like that. Totally no shadow was allowed in Germany. Therefore the shadow took over. So the Buddha would get Hitler

[39:56]

somehow by some skill to turn around and look at that horrible shadow not horrible shadow just regular shadow the German shadow was not worse than anybody else's shadow it just they were more in denial than almost any country that we've ever seen. And because there was so much denial the shadow took over the whole country. So you would try to get Hitler to be more aware and be willing to be the sick you know the sick guy he was he wasn't that much sicker than most people except that he was not paying attention to it all and what he did from denying his own sickness and his own pain he projected on all the other people and they also denied theirs and everybody projected all their problems onto the non-Aryans Jews Gypsies Hungarians Russians whatever anything that wasn't them but particularly the Jews and if they had kept winning they would just have to

[40:56]

project that onto other groups that weren't them that's the characteristic of you know when you're done denying something to yourself when you see it outside yourself you have to tack it up there Klaus Barbie was the butcher of Leon when he was torturing this one guy he said he realized in the middle of torture that he was torturing himself and what he really hated when he was torturing was a person who reminded him of himself so I think if somebody some wise person could have gotten near Hitler what that person would have done would be to endanger his own life by getting Hitler to look at who Hitler was and if Hitler could have looked at that that would have been good for Hitler but you'd have to have what he called quite a few of these people because Hitler wasn't the only one who wasn't looking you'd have to have a large staff of great teachers to get all these guys all these guys these murderous thugs to turn around and look at themselves which would

[41:58]

if they could they would become three of the murderous thugs which is that would be quite a few it's hard enough to get night dance students to turn around but that would be true devotion to Hitler would be quite a few that's right yeah it would be true devotion to him rather than trying to get him to change his plans and what we hope is that our devotion to people will be effective before they fulfill some of these plans they've got but we have to care more about the person than the plan because but if you can stop the plan stop the plan too you can do both that's the idea and if the person is about to do something that's going to hurt somebody else and hurt them by doing some bad things you should stop them even though they haven't done the right thing you should stop it so if you could have stopped Hitler you should have done it but what could stop it if it wasn't just him a lot of people cooperated with that he took it in their way

[42:59]

I don't know if that would have stopped it maybe yes I wanted to ask you to talk about karma and no karma in this study karma is action which comes from the understanding that I'm independent of you and I can do something by myself that's karma and if I think that no karma is when I isn't that I fight that way of thinking it's that I acknowledge that I do think that way and I study it studying how I think that I'm independent and I can act by myself being aware of that that awareness is not karma that is Buddhist study and the Buddha watched himself he looked around and saw and he thought he could act independently of other people

[44:00]

he watched how thinking that way caused suffering and perpetuated this process and also gave rise to results coming back to the one who thinks that way in terms of how he thought he saw that and he became released from that way of thinking but you have to study how you're in what way you're a karmic person in order to be free of it and the study is not karmic and the life which emerges from that study is not karmic life so a person who no longer believes in himself as independent they walk around like everybody else but they don't see it as a personal power trip they see the whole world as making this walking happen they see the whole world acting through this walking it's not a personal power and therefore it's not karmic it's just a wondrous thing actually it's just wonderful that people can walk you see a baby walk it's a beautiful thing that people can walk

[45:01]

it's even beautiful if people can fall down you know it's really the world when you see the world acting through people when you see how the world how people are really the world manifesting at that spot everything is beautiful when people are acting independently though that cuts into the beauty and some people are so I don't know what the world has made in such a way that even though they personally you know don't get it everybody else gets it that they're beautiful but when you get what's happening then everybody's beautiful so a baby's not really get it but often times people can see they're beautiful somehow people can see the whole world coming out through that baby

[46:02]

being born not everybody I think you see it but a lot of people so that really encourages more more babies it's good what we need to do is we need to be able to see that same thing we see in a baby in everybody we need to be able to look at everybody and see a baby born a baby born a baby born because there's a new person every moment you know really the world's producing a new person so you've got to get in depth with that by watching watch this and you'll see that well it's not it's clearly not an intellectual study yet but it studies the intellect so

[47:02]

the content of it could be intellect what does the word study imply well you know the Japanese there's a Japanese word I don't know if I remember how to do it but I think it looks like this I think it looks like this something like that it means to study but it also means to learn okay and it means to kind of like imitate and these up here are wings and this character is supposed to it's talking about studying the way baby birds study their parents you know parents go baby birds will watch you know so it's translated as study it's translated as learn but it has a lot to do

[48:04]

with when it's a physical thing it's like baby birds learning how to ride it's like little boys and girls watching their big brothers and sisters ride a bicycle but when it comes to the mind it's learning how the mind works when it comes to karma it's learning studying how karma works so learning it's learning you could say and you know you could say but I think in learning theory learning itself is not an intellectual activity you could also say study is not intellectual you could say that but learning you can learn intellectual things you can also learn physical things artistic things and sexual things and you know digestive things you can learn a lot of stuff so learning is although I think people do associate with intellect learning or study you can study something

[49:05]

that's not intellectual you can study dance you can study Buddhism you can study compassion wisdom is not intellectual wisdom is just the way it is but wisdom needs to understand the intellect because the intellect is important ok so I think you're right that Buddhist study is not really intellectual learning is not really intellectual but it can apply to the intellect and it does apply to the intellect you see the difference it's not it's more than seeing though because study like little birds don't just look they also like they also go like this you know and in tea ceremony you don't just look you also pick the stuff up and try it in bicycle riding you get on the bicycle that's part of the learning

[50:05]

that's part of the study of bicycle riding is to ride the bicycle and fall off part of it is to watch and part of it is to try all that's included in study so in karma you watch your karma you watch your karma you watch your karma but then actually get into your karma let's do it let's try to do this karma thing like walk across the room and watch myself think that I'm doing this okay you actually do it too after walking it's more than just thinking about it or seeing it but it has that kind of like looking or listening aspect and then it has a getting into it aspect Susan when you come upon a worthy man emulation when you come upon an unworthy man examine your inner self so it's kind of an examination it's examination

[51:09]

and in appropriate cases emulation and if it's your own karma you're studying you emulate your own karma you actually feel what it's like like a lot of people don't aren't familiar with the fact that they do actually do karma they aren't aware that they actually think that they do things independently and you should get in there and see what you do or you should prove that you don't if you think I'm not correct in analyzing things that way so emulate that's just me emulate baby birds emulating their parents there are certain things which are so complex like you can imagine writing writing a book to explain how to ride a bicycle it would be a very big book very few kids would be able to read it so you mostly learn by imitation most of the complex things you can only learn by imitation

[52:09]

there's a lot of books on Zen but really mostly you learn by Zen by imitation and then by forgetting about what you're imitating so why it's important to have a teacher that's part of it it's part of it there's more to it than that so that would be like studying the far but if you were studying the near would that be the same as say I'd see you following me doing the same thing that you would do and still continue to do it in a way I should continue to do it not should no you shouldn't not you should continue to do it I'm not saying you should continue to do it I didn't say that but if you do continue to do it then I would say you should you should do it in the most

[53:12]

thorough wholehearted way you can and that will set you free from that yes so when you're meditating um and you're following your breath and watching the body sensations yes um wouldn't it be better to just kind of keep watching it first coming up in your mind and not falling for it better than what I'm sure I'm making a total mess of this but better that than watching body sensations and watching breath would it be the same thing um well actually it might be the same thing because it's a story that you are following your breath it's a story so if you watch the story if you watch the story now I live

[54:13]

and here at Tassajara sitting on this cushion following my breath that's a story watch that story while the story is happening and you will become free of that story and you will realize someday that it's not Liz there Liz isn't there following her breath that's not what's happening the breath is not the breath Liz is not Liz and Liz is doing it by her own personal power so that would be better in a sense but not really better it's just that would be liberation and the other thing is just more dualistic thinking but in fact if you study how you think that you do meditation how you think that this is your breath and this is not your breath and this is your body and this is not your body if you study those stories you will realize those stories are not those stories and that would be great that would be wonderful you would be free of those stories but there's always the person who's watching and saying that's another story no that's another story go back tomorrow and then write more but you might not

[55:13]

have to go back anymore just one major story and then demolish the rest of them one story one important story that you don't fall for anymore would eliminate believing a whole bunch of other ones it won't eliminate the stories once you see the illusoriness of one illusion you see the illusion of a lot of other illusions but you don't see them until they show up necessarily because they're not happening right now but then when they show up they show up and you go oh wow and then there's that one illusion I used to believe in I don't believe in anymore and you apply this insight to many successive delusions that you've had but they still occur you see through them occur, see through the main one the main story is I I'm independent of you that's the main story that's going on most of the time and you see through that one doesn't take care of just about everything except that you have to

[56:14]

apply that a million times in terms of all the other stuff that's built on that so you can go right ahead and sit there and live the story of I'm a meditator I'm a female meditator here at Tassajara on my breath you can do that story in all the different variations of that basic story and if you watch that carefully you become free of that story and if you become free especially of the part about that you are independent of your breath and you're independent of the zen though and you're independent if you get free of that part of the story you will have entered the Buddha way so watching the story are you are you then at the same time coming to it with this is one that I can't believe in this story pardon? when you come when you notice the story I it's like a judgment does it say this is not this is a story well

[57:15]

yeah it is a judgment it is definitely a judgment to say this is not good to believe this story in other words if you see a story and you notice that you're believing it you will probably you might notice that you're in pain because you believe it so then you might say in addition you might say so it's not good that I'm believing because I have pain but you could also say I'm glad that I have pain because I don't believe it because that shows me that believing it causes pain you could also say that you can do whatever you want there the important thing is that you notice this is the story if you notice this is the story you will eventually notice this believing that this is then you say this is the story and you notice I believe the story and you notice the story with the belief equals suffering you might also notice the story without the belief no suffering start to notice these patterns so then you might also say make a new story called here's a story called story is

[58:16]

story with belief equals suffering story without belief equals not suffering you say story without suffering is better story without suffering is better than story with suffering there's no story story no story is story without believing is not suffering story without believing not suffering that's better you can have all those stories learn the stories, and you can be telling them or not telling them, the point is you, this is what's happening, whatever's happening, you see what's happening, when you see what's happening, you become a freak. But you have to really be alert and present to see this stuff. And don't we have better things to do than that? What you're saying, if you reach enlightenment, then you don't care about enlightenment. That's right, you don't care about enlightenment. It doesn't matter. But you do care about suffering people when you're enlightened.

[59:21]

You don't care about enlightening people, but you care about suffering people. Because they fund you. Because they fund you. They cramp your style. They kind of like make these little dents in your heart. So you do care about the suffering people, but you don't care about the Buddha. They don't need to be cared about. But not caring about them doesn't mean you're not devoted to them. Not caring doesn't mean... No, when you're a Buddha, you're devoted to Buddha. But you don't care about Buddha, because you know, Buddha's fine, he's dumb. And you're also devoted to suffering beings, but you do care about them, because there's a problem. It hurts, they hurt your heart. And the Buddha said... He said that if you grasp something, it disappears.

[60:26]

No, no, no. If you grasp what's happening, it disappears. If you grasp a person's head, the head doesn't disappear. That's what I mean, but if you... That's why you're looking at what you're doing and you get devoted to what you're doing, you're trying to grasp it. No, no, no, no. Usually you're trying to grasp things. That's usually what's happening. And you bring your devotion to this grasping person. And your devotion helps you understand how grasping works. And then you become free of grasping. Grasping is not devotion, grasping is just a power trip. Alright, intention. When you put your intention, attention to something... If I'm looking at this, I understand what you're talking about. Quantum physics is you try to look at the particles that make that. If you look towards the physics of theory, you have to look away in order to be able for them to exist.

[61:31]

If your intention goes to some bad habit that you have, something that's negative... Yes? You have an intention. Does it make you go away? Well, not really, but sort of. I would say, rather than make it go away, it tames it. Like, I like the example of, you bring your attention to the ocean, does the ocean go away? No. But if you bring your intention and attention to the ocean, particularly if your intention is to understand the ocean, and you bring your attention and devotion to the ocean, the ocean will become tamed, the ocean will become your friend. But if you go to the ocean and try to control it, the ocean will always be your enemy. The ocean's not your enemy, but if you try to control the ocean, that will make the ocean your enemy. The ocean is just the ocean. Bring control to the ocean, the ocean becomes your enemy.

[62:34]

Bring devotion to the ocean, the ocean becomes your friend. If you've got a mind that's like an ocean, same thing. When it's turbulent, you try to control it, it'll become your enemy. But if you're devoted to your mind, it'll become your friend. The mind that you're devoted to will be the way you become Buddha. Because, in fact, the way the mind is, is Buddha. And your devotion will make you realize the way the mind is. So, be nice to your mind, be devoted to your mind, your mind will become tamed. It won't evaporate, it'll just become your friend because you're a friend to it. The part of friendship is self-defense sometimes. Sometimes your mind comes running at you, and you've got to sort of go... Give it a little flip to protect yourself and your mind from acting out harmful, unskillful intentions.

[63:35]

And sometimes the mind comes with a big tidal wave of pain. You've got to get in there and surf that. You can't just like... Devotion isn't like, okay, I'm going to stand up here and take this pain. No, it's kind of like... When a wave's coming, if you dive in, it doesn't hurt you. But if you stand in a certain place, it'll crush you. You know what I mean? There's a place to meet a wave that we... In some ways it's real difficult to find that place. But that's why you have to get skillful. Because some waves are so big that if you're a little bit off... I mean, mostly the wave crushes everything in its way, but there's a place. Start with what you've got. Don't... Meet the situation. Give your full attention and devotion to it. And it isn't that the ocean goes flat, but it becomes tamed by your intimacy with it. Even though it's still a regular ocean with lots of activity and stuff like that. Is the word acceptance also...

[64:38]

Pardon? Is the word acceptance meaningful in that context? Acceptance of what is? Whether we call it that or whatever. Well, acceptance is part of it. But again, Gordon was talking about the word acceptance sounds like... Sometimes it has this connotation of saying, I accept it and it's okay. But I would say more than acceptance... Acceptance is an aspect, but also you can accept a wave, right? But also you... Without any moral judgments. Yeah. You can accept a wave without any moral judgments, but also you should get in there sometimes. And getting in there is a little bit more than accepting. It's like harmonizing with the wave. So, you can't really harmonize with things if you don't accept them. But you can accept something, but not really be in harmony with it. So, yeah, I accept you, but you know... But I'm getting out of here. No, no. Accept, intimacy, harmony, all those things together. These are just words, you know, to try to give you a feeling for what it's like to be intimate and harmonious with things.

[65:40]

But maybe this is enough for right now. So we could have meditation at 5 o'clock if you'd like.

[65:49]

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