So what I said was not recorded, so it'll be kind of a word-of-mouth thing I guess from here on. And another thing that comes to my mind is I'm not trying to talk people into this Bodhisattva thing, but then I think, well, but wouldn't you, don't you kind of wish they would? I kind of think, well, yeah. So I'm not trying to like get you to sign up for this course which you might not be able to completely accomplish in this lifetime. But the Bodhisattvas, a part of being a Bodhisattva is to want to be a Bodhisattva and to want to accomplish unsurpassed, authentic and complete awakening for the welfare of all beings.

[01:02]

It's the wish, it's the aspiration, it's the heart that wants to realize that. It's not the heart that's calculating whether you're going to be able to accomplish it by a certain date. That's like just a human thought. It took Buddha three immeasurably long eons to accomplish it from the time Buddha first thought, came up with this aspiration to obtain unsurpassed awakening for the welfare of the world, took Buddha three eons. So, you know, it may take you three eons from now or you may actually be in the process and not know it. Some of you actually may be kind of way towards the end of the process. You may have spent many lives working on this and this might be the last one, but it doesn't seem likely because of Shakyamuni Buddha kind of hogging the space as the founder of this

[02:04]

trip. But anyway, it may be that very soon after you die you'll be reborn as a Bodhisattva who will become a Buddha. Who knows? I mean, I don't know. I don't yet have the vision to be able to tell you when you're going to be a Buddha. If I were a Buddha I could tell you exactly which life you will be attaining Buddhahood. Honestly speaking, I can't see. I can see pretty much that you're all Buddhas, but I don't know when you're going to attain your Buddhahood, you know, and like unroll widely inside and outside of the entire universe, the unremitting, unthinkable, unnameable, unstoppable, incandescent Buddhadharma. I don't know when you're going to be doing that. I don't know what your name is going to be when you're a Buddha or what your name of your land is or what kind of disciples you're going to have. I can't see that, but anyway, I'm sorry if it's hard for you to hear about this Bodhisattva stuff, because I know it's kind of scary in a way, kind of, wow, but it's

[03:20]

hard for me to turn back, because Zen Buddhism is really a Bodhisattva Buddhism. It's not me accomplishing something in this life Buddhism. It's also, you know, me not accomplishing something in this life Buddhism. It's not about me. It's about saving the world, and of course as soon as possible, but you know, it's also being realistic about what it's going to take, and it's going to take a lot, and it's also about being very happy about being even clued in on this program, and have the opportunity to want to join it, and be very happy about that, but also like, whew, it's a big deal, and sometimes having thoughts like, you know, is this too much to try something so impossible? So I'm, you know,

[04:21]

seemingly impossible. Am I being too heroic to think about being a Bodhisattva? I don't know if you're being too heroic, but Bodhisattvas are definitely heroes. It's definitely a heroic path, and so when we're studying the Samadhis last practice period, the Bodhisattva Samadhis, Samadhis of type number four, one of those Samadhis is called the heroic stride Samadhi. It's talking about the awareness, the concentration, the being settled and one-pointed about the heroic walking of a Bodhisattva. So it is a heroic path, but I'm sorry if it's kind of like also hard in a way to hear about it. In a sense, you know, Bodhisattva path starts after enlightenment, not after supreme perfect enlightenment, but after like basically contact with supreme

[05:27]

perfect enlightenment. The aspiration to attain supreme perfect enlightenment spontaneously arises because of some kind of communion with supreme perfect enlightenment. People do not think of this all by themselves. When this thought arises and the wish to realize this supreme perfect enlightenment for the welfare of all beings arises, it's out of this communion between the person who has this thought and the Buddha. That thought is actually called Bodhi mind, the arising of Bodhi mind. It's called Bodhi mind, Buddha mind, enlightened mind, enlightenment mind. It is definitely connected intimately with unsurpassed complete perfect enlightenment of a Buddha, but it's sometimes the comparison is that of

[06:28]

being one being like a firefly's light and the other one being a galactic firestorm, but they're very similar in a lot of ways. They're both about light and warmth and fire, but one's kind of just starting out like, I want to be a Buddha for the welfare. Do you really? Yes, I do. You're not kidding? No, I'm not. Are you a hero? Yes, I am. Or I want to be, I want to learn how to be, I want to and I want to like be settled in that all the time. I'm not now, but I would like to be and if I forget and slip, I want to confess and repent, which means I want to confess a vow that I slipped off this aspiration and repent means I want to like

[07:32]

I want to sign up again for this good thing. So the Bodhisattva path starts sort of after or at enlightenment and then it goes from there into it to develop and realize that enlightenment more and more through practicing virtues, skill and means, compassion together with wisdom and again I'm saying that the Zen practice is part of this Bodhisattva thing and I just want to say that just like I just said that the Bodhisattva path starts after enlightenment or upon enlightenment or upon communion with enlightenment, also Zen practice is often said to commence with enlightenment or from enlightenment or on enlightenment and then

[08:38]

we're walking, the Zen practice is to walk the path of enlightenment and the way the true path, the true Bodhisattva path to enlightenment or of enlightenment is to sit upright in the midst of this self-receiving and self-functioning Samadhi, but again in one sense I want to say but this path to enlightenment isn't just to sit in the Samadhi, in one sense I want to say that, but in another sense what I want to say is sitting in the Samadhi isn't just sitting in the Samadhi, another way I want to say it is sitting in the Samadhi includes not sitting in the Samadhi, another way I want to say it is sitting in the Samadhi, sitting upright in this Samadhi of the Buddha includes all kinds of activities, all kinds of virtue practices, all kinds of compassion practices and another way

[09:47]

to say it is that sitting upright in the Samadhi is the mode, is the mode in which the Bodhisattva walks, so the Bodhisattva is actually like striding through the world, in the world, walking through the world, joining hands with beings, doing stuff with everybody, getting praised, getting insulted, meeting people in all kinds of situations, really active, but in a Samadhi at the same time and sometimes or frequently remembering the reason for being in this world, remembering that, why am I here? This is so painful, oh yeah, I'm here to save all beings, oh yeah, that's right, and then being in the Samadhi makes it possible to do all these virtue practices in a pure way. And then I

[10:57]

also mentioned last week at the beginning of, I think, well, it's the chapter in the Samdhinirmocana Sutra, the chapter on the analysis of yoga, the whole book's about yoga, but there's one chapter which is called the analysis of yoga, the questions of Maitreya, and in that chapter starts out by, I think, Maitreya says to Buddha, relying on what and abiding in what does the Bodhisattva practice meditation, but literally said practice tranquility and insight, and the Buddha said relying on and abiding in a resolute commitment or vow to teach the Buddha Dharma, the conventional Buddha Dharma, to teach in conventional

[12:01]

speech and to not turn away from unsurpassed complete and authentic awakening. That's what the Bodhisattva's meditation practice is based on. Okay, now when I passed out that summary, some people don't have this summary, you can I'll give you, you can get one at the end of class maybe, of course, I only have How many, do you have any more of these? I have one, I have a few of these things. I made a little summary with Diana's help of the Bodhisattva path and on that path, after you initiate the practices of virtue in the world, working in the world, giving, practicing precepts, ethically studying ethics with all beings, being patient with your feelings and what other people are doing, being

[13:06]

diligent about everything and practicing concentration, you do all those things in the world and then you simultaneously working alongside these virtues, you're starting to develop wisdom and the wisdom is the actual, the wisdom which understands emptiness is the Bodhisattva's wisdom practice, which is understanding emptiness, so the wisdom which has emptiness as its object of meditation, that wisdom is the only real antidote to suffering, but it has to be joined to virtues and virtues need to be joined to it, so now I think that many of you are already practicing the virtues quite well, some of the time, and some of you other times apparently aren't doing so well and you're confessing it nicely

[14:10]

and I sometimes practice virtues and I sometimes don't, but anyway, you seem to know how to practice virtue somewhat. Now, the Bodhisattva's meditation practice is based on a firm resolution to teach all these virtues, to teach all the teachings about how to practice these virtues, to teach people how to practice giving, so they understand how to do it effectively, because practicing giving is an extremely joyful practice, that's just a hint about how to practice it, that's a teaching about how to practice it, that I was taught, it's a conventional teaching about how to practice giving, how to practice the virtue of giving, okay, so now passing that conventional teaching on to you, which I read and memorized and said to you, that's part of a Bodhisattva's work, is to listen to the teaching, read the teaching, copy it out, memorize it and then tell it to others, that's part of

[15:14]

what the Bodhisattvas have a firm commitment to do, so I'm doing that, that's part of my job as a Bodhisattva to do that, so I did that in that particular case, but I'm just saying that I think you're already practicing virtues, but some of you are not practicing yet, don't have much understanding of how to practice wisdom, so I thought rather than talk about the virtue practices, I was going to like start talking about the wisdom practices, but talking about the wisdom practices is going to be to some extent new, the traditional wisdom practices might be somewhat new to you, and again people are, it's kind of hard for people to hear something new around here, or most places, I was just kind of like getting an idea of what's going on now, and now this all this thing about these three kinds of wisdom, anyway these three kinds of wisdom on this sheet, so I can't hide them anymore, they're out of the closet

[16:15]

and Charlie, did you find in Abhidharmakosha chapter 6 where those three kinds of wisdom are taught, would you look, would you want to look to see if you can find what verse the three kinds of wisdom are taught in chapter 6 of the Abhidharmakosha, I think that's where they are, because I said I would make, did I say I'd make you a reading list about these three kinds of wisdom? I will, I mean we're in the process of making it now, and only be about five or six books on it, but it's only a small part of those five or six books on this point, it's not that much written about these three kinds of wisdom, and one other thing I want to mention to you, it's almost time to stop, but this is worth mentioning, I saw you look at the clock, so we have in our

[17:32]

tradition the story of one of our ancestors named Prajnatara, who went, who was invited to a vegetarian feast by an Indian Raj, and the Raj said to him, Master, why don't you read sutras, why don't you read scriptures, and Prajnatara said, this poor wayfarer does not dwell literally in the five aggregates, in other words, the body and mind realms, when breathing in, and does not get involved in 18 dhatus, myriad circumstances, when breathing out. I'm always reciting this scripture, hundreds, thousands, millions of scrolls, so this teacher sets the stage for the Zen transmission, which supposedly uses

[18:41]

scriptures like the scripture of non-attachment as the main scripture, okay, and it certainly is the main scripture of Zen, it's called the scripture of having no scriptures, it's also the scripture of having no Zen centers, it's also the scripture of having no Buddha, it's also the scripture of having no mind, but for short, it's just whatever you got, let go of it scripture, that's a basic practice, that's called sitting upright and entering into Samadhi, it's the scripture of don't grasp anything and don't seek anything, you heard about that one, right, that's the scripture which Zen students are always reciting hundreds, thousands, millions of times, are you up to a hundred, are you up to a thousand, are you up to fifteen thousand, are you up to a million yet, have you recited that, have you reminded yourself a few times that our practice is non-attachment, to let go of it and not grasp anything in your mind and not seek

[19:44]

anything in your mind, have you heard about that, have you, yeah, that's our practice and so then people say, oh, the Zen school is a scripturalist school and it certainly is and because we're scripturalists, we're going to be more effective because we're a scripturalist practice, we're going to be more effective hopefully at teaching people scriptures and we're going to teach them all the scriptures because that's what Bodhisattvas do, they teach everybody all the scriptures because all the scriptures are wonderful, every single one of them is wonderful, every word of them is wonderful and we're going to teach them all with joy and we can be joyful about this teaching because we have no attachment to these teachings, so we have no outflows around these teachings, we just have pure unadulterated diligence about caring for and teaching these teachings, does that make sense? So you and I need to be good Zen students and practice breathing out or breathing in either way, not abiding

[20:50]

in body and mind, not dwelling in body and mind and breathing out, not getting involved in anything, including the teachings and from that practice which we're always doing, we teach the Dharma, we teach the scriptures and one couple more examples, one I like, it's about this man named Shitan, which I, doesn't Shitan mean Western Hall? Shitan Jejong, disciple of Matsu, okay, Matsu had a number of disciples, Shitan is one of the big ones, Baijong is another one and Nanchuan is another one, those are three big disciples of the great master Matsu and one day Matsu said to Shitan or Jejong, why don't you read scriptures or sutras and Jejong said, aren't they all the same and Matsu says, although that's true, this scripture, you know, says that all the

[21:54]

scriptures are the same, this scripture says that ultimately all the teachings have one taste and all Dharmas have one taste, so the scriptures teach that the scriptures are all the same, so the teacher says to the disciple, why don't you study these scriptures and he said, well aren't they all the same and the teacher says, although that's true, you should know, you should do so, you should study these scriptures, you should read them, you should memorize them, you should copy them and you should teach them for the sake of people, for the sake of people you will teach later on, okay, he's doing this, he's a good Zen student, he's not attached to anything, he's not attached to the scriptures, he's not reading anything, he's just like not abiding and not seeking, he's a great student, teacher says, how come you don't read the scriptures, in other words, how come you're non-abiding, non-seeking, hasn't like manifested as you like

[22:59]

reading the scriptures, he says, aren't they all the same and teacher says that and after he says, yeah, but you should study them for the sake of the people you will teach later on, then Jejong says, I think Jejong must cure his own illness and I would put in parentheses, by realizing emptiness, close parentheses, I have to cure my own illness, then I can talk to others and Ma says, late in your life you will be known throughout the world and Jejong bowed, so this is a conversation between two major Zen people, teacher saying to the great disciple, you should study these, you should read these scriptures, but it's

[24:00]

also true that he shall understand emptiness before he starts talking to people, but then after he understands emptiness, then he should use these scriptures to tell people, because people need to be taught, you know, the basics of Buddhism before they can realize emptiness, so you have to teach the basic teachings about karma and stuff, you have to teach and encourage people to have confidence in the teachings of karma, have confidence in the teaching of karma means have confidence that actions have consequence and what you do really matters and have confidence that there are suffering people, we need to have confidence in that by hearing the teaching, the basic teachings, somebody has to say that to us, we have to say it to others, they need to hear that, they need to have that, then they can go on to realize emptiness from there, so anyway this is part of the

[25:01]

tradition to learn this stuff and so now I'd like to start talking about the three wisdoms, ready? So I already did, didn't I? There's three kinds of wisdom, one the wisdom from hearing, the one is wisdom arisen from hearing, the other is wisdom arisen from reflection, thinking, and the other is wisdom arisen from meditation. So in the Samdhinirmochana Sutra, in this big red book translated by Powers on page 183 and in the Chinese on page 698 C, it talks about these,

[26:11]

compares these three kinds of wisdom. So I already told you, right? In some sense basically I said the wisdom from hearing means like you actually hear the teaching or you read the teaching and you read the actual authentic scripture and you listen to a teacher who understands the teaching and you discuss it in conventional speech and you discuss and you discuss and at a certain point a wisdom arises based on those discussions, on those readings, okay? Excuse me, what page again in the Powers translation? 183. 183? Yeah, that's what it is.

[27:12]

Well there it is, hi. Yeah, 183 and 185, okay? And then in reflecting, in the second kind of wisdom through reflecting, you already have some understanding of the teaching and now you reflect on it. You reflect on it and you notice as you reflect that maybe there's some things you don't understand so well and you think about them and you reason about them and you analyze them to deepen your understanding and you go back and check scriptures and so on, check with other scriptures to see if it works because maybe you understood but then later you think, well, but that other

[28:13]

scripture says this other thing and this other commentary says this other thing. So in other words, you're continuing to study and reflect beyond your original understanding. And the third one, the third one, you really don't do more analysis. You take what you understood in the previous case and you enter into the very deep, deep relationship with it. I would say, I'll go into this, I hope to go over this again but just I'll say right now, it's as though you first understood by reading and talking with the teacher and reading and talking with the scripture, then you reflected and you reflected and you understood better and you cleared up doubts that arose as you contemplated and you had a deeper understanding. In the third case, when you're meditating, it's like the understanding that you have

[29:17]

to the, you know, for example, to some extent it exists in time and space. So like if you're actually looking at what you understand about some teaching or about something, as you're looking at it, as you're understanding of it in Samadhi now, I shouldn't say Samadhi now because the other ones could be in Samadhi now, but in a deeper Samadhi where the Samadhi is, the calmness is more integrated with the insight, it's as though there's more space and more time. It's like the teachings sit still for you and make space for you to get in deeper, so time and space somehow becomes more ingratiating to the process of going deeper with what you already understand. Now in the Samadhi Nirmachana Sutra, it makes

[30:22]

this nice comparison, goes into some more detail about comparisons between these three types of wisdom. So it says, the first type of wisdom arising from hearing or learning, it abides in words and words are taken literally, but their intent is not grasped and they are not actualized. And this understanding or this wisdom is concordant with liberation. But the objects that are comprehended in this level of wisdom are not liberative. Even though

[31:27]

you may be looking at, even though you're actually hearing a teaching about liberation, even if you're hearing a teaching about emptiness, the way you're understanding it at this level, the way you see emptiness, the way you're working with the word emptiness, is not yet a liberative, it's not manifesting to you as a liberative object. However, of course it's in accordance, this particular example is in accordance with liberation and actually all the teachings that you study are in accord with liberation, but you're not yet looking at something which will liberate you from suffering or anybody else from suffering. That's the first level. Now, I'm sure you didn't get that, but it's in the book and it's on tape and we can discuss it, because I think what you're doing now is you're hearing a teaching

[32:27]

about the three levels of wisdom and you're trying to get the first level of wisdom about the teaching of the three levels of wisdom. Does that make sense? But you haven't quite got it yet because I haven't finished the comparisons. And you know, it gets interesting. Was the last part interesting? Not yet liberative. That's right, not yet liberative. You're so smart. This is the level where smart helps. And the next one, it helps even more. And then some of you say, what about me, I'm not so smart. Well, you have to get smart. What about the dull and the sharp-witted? I thought there was no distinction. Did you make one? Did you just make a distinction between them? Did you? Okay then, knock it off, okay? Rosie, you've got to ride tall on the Bodhisattva path, okay? But don't make

[33:44]

any distinction between riding low and riding high, okay? No distinction. But you've got to stand tall and stride heroically. But no distinction between cowardly walking and heroic walking. Bodhisattvas do not distinguish between cowardly crawling along the path and heroically striding. No distinction. And the no distinction is the real hero. That no distinction is the real heroic way. That's the samadhi of the heroic stride. It's not to distinguish between high and low, Buddha and ordinary, okay? But still, you've got to get those Buddha dharmas. And you've got to get smart. And if you don't think you're smart, again, get smart. Pray to get smart. Bow, bow, [...] bow. You bow, you [...] get smart. You get smart. All your kind of resistance,

[34:48]

I'm not smart, I can't learn that, you just keep bowing and all that kind of resistance just goes away and you get smart. I can't memorize those texts. You just keep, you bow, you bow, you bow, you can memorize those texts. I say, well, if I'm going to have to bow, I might as well memorize the text. It's easier on your knees. If I have to bow, I might as well like teach the text. I might give a class in the text. I might as well memorize the text. I'll get other people to memorize the text. I'll copy the text. I'll have the text copied. I'll have gold copies made. You know, I'll have lapis lazuli copies made. I'm going to be like into this text. You get into something enough, you get smart. You become an expert. But there's no distinction between the experts and the non-experts in the Bodhisattva way. No distinction. If you make a distinction, you confess, I made a distinction. Now I repent. I want to like give

[35:50]

up my distinctions between self and other Buddhas and sentient beings and sharp and dull. There's no distinction on this path. But that doesn't mean you're not supposed to get sharp. You should get sharp. And you already are. So just give up your sharpness. Sharpie. Okay, the next one. This is wisdom of reflection or thinking. Now here, you still adhere to words. First one, did you adhere to words? I said still, so probably you did, right? Remember the first one you were adhering to or abiding in words, remember? That makes sense, doesn't it? Now you're still adhering or abiding in words in the second level. However, do you think you take them literally? No, second level, you don't take them literally or you take them literally, but not merely literally.

[36:52]

I'll finish this and come back to this. Next, the first one, you did not grasp their intent. Second one, you grasp their intent. I'll come back to that too. Now this next one is kind of tough because we have different translations and we don't have the Sanskrit original. So we're going to have to work this one out. But the next one is kind of tough because in the first path, you don't actualize, you don't grasp the intent of the words which you took literally and you don't actualize them. But in the second one, one translation says you do actualize them and the other one says not yet actualizing. So this is a hard point here. Third point, which one says which? That from Tibetan says you do actualize it and clearly is translation of, you know,

[38:00]

I haven't had time to check the second. We have two translations from Chinese now and one from Tibetan. I haven't checked the new translation from Chinese to see what it says. I'll check that, but anyway, the translation from Tibetan says they do actualize these words and the other one says they do not yet actualize them. The next one is, remember how the wisdom that comes through hearing and study, how it's concordant with liberation? In this case, it's very concordant with liberation, more concordant with liberation. And then the last point was, remember the last point was? Liberated. The object that you're looking at, your understanding that you're aware of, in the first case, it was not liberative and the second case, still not liberative.

[39:04]

Your understanding has gotten, you've got a better understanding now, but you're still not looking at it in such a way that it's liberative. And maybe I'll just go back to that one earlier point just for a second, or maybe I should finish the list and go back. What do you think? Okay, so under the wisdom which arises from meditation, this is great, isn't it? What do you think they do with, some of you know the answer, and even if you know the answer from reading the book, it's okay, in this case, you can be the smart kid. But anyway, what do you think in regard to words, do you think they adhere to the words or abide in the words? What's the story now at this level? The first one, they adhered to the words, right? Abided in the words. The second one, did they abide in words? Yeah. Third one, what did they do? No. No, we think not, right? Wouldn't you? You think not? You're in the class, too. So you know the answer now, right? Listen to this. You know the answer now,

[40:12]

and then you found out she's wrong. She said no, right? Yeah. You're in the class, what's the answer? Yeah. Yes? No. Okay, here's your chance. What's the answer? Neither abiding nor non-abiding. Wrong, but closer. He said neither abiding nor non-abiding. It's closer. Both abiding and non-abiding. They abide and they don't abide. This is the virtue of the meditation they're in. They're like cool, you know, they're flexible. They abide and they don't abide. Isn't that cool? See the difference? It's not that they don't abide and it's not that they do abide. It's that they do abide and that they also don't abide. It's not neither, they do both. But that was good, very good, and yours was good, too. Yours was excellent. But there's no

[41:13]

distinction. No distinctions here. Because this is Bodhisattva practice, right? No distinctions on this path. Okay, next one. First one, take words literally. Second one, they don't take them literally. How about this one? Guess. Both. Both what? Both literally and not literally? Now, once I've established something, it just gets repeated. What is it? That's the spirit. Well, it has two different translations. One is, they take them

[42:22]

literally. The other is, both according to the explanation and not according to the explanation of the previous wisdom. Okay, next one. In the first kind of wisdom, they didn't grasp the intent. Now, the intent means the intent of the speaker. In other words, the intent of the Buddha. They didn't grasp the intent. They understood the teaching, but they didn't know what Buddha's intent was. Why did he say that? They didn't know that. The second one, you understand the intent. That's part of what you don't understand when you first understand a teaching. You don't have time for that. The second one, you actually figure out what the intent was. The third one, do you think they grasped the intent? That's nice, but anyway, they grasped the intent. Okay, and they direct their attention towards the meaning, towards that intent. They direct

[43:37]

their attention to the intent, the understanding of intent in Samadhi. Next one, first one, they do not actualize it. Second one, they do actualize it or they don't yet actualize it. Third one, they do actualize it. They actualize them through the images that are the focus of Samadhi now. So, previously, these teachings were not actualized, but now the teachings are coming to the meditator, coming to the yogi in the form of a meditation image. The teachings which they understood, the understandings appearing to them, the way it appears in concentration, and in this way, because of that, that way of seeing them in concentration, they are actualized. And then the next one is liberation, completely concordant with liberation.

[44:40]

And the last one, the object is liberative. Now, the teaching, whatever teaching it is, the way they see the teaching is liberative. If it's a teaching about emptiness, they see the teaching of emptiness in such a way that they see the emptiness of the teaching of emptiness. And if it's a teaching about something else, a little bit more detail, one thing I would like to look at is that, well, first of all, number one, they abide in words. And again, Zen has a reputation of being a wordless practice and all that. But again, I think wordless means we receive words and give them away. We're in the Samadhi of receiving words, and when words come, when words come, when images come, then our life is thus realized, and we give away our life. We give away these words. In other words, in that sense, we're not holding to the words. It's a wordless transmission.

[45:45]

And another thing, the expression from this Sandhya Nirmachana Sutra is those who realize the ultimate, they realize that the character of the ultimate is wordless, ineffable, inexpressible, and non-dual. And those people who realize it, they make conventional designations. Those who realize this talk, those who realize, what is it, the unfabricated, they're not without speech, and they speak, and they speak in conventional ways, and they give conventional teachings. They give conventional, they use words. And so the first level of wisdom is to work with those words, and the first level of working with the words is literally. And I think of some people saying that Buddhist teachings should be taken literally. And a lot of people say, well, some can be taken literally and some cannot.

[46:52]

But at a certain, at the first level of wisdom, it's saying here, the first level of wisdom is you take them literally. The second level of wisdom, you don't. The second level of wisdom, you're critical. But first of all, you let them in in an uncritical way. You're critical only in the sense of trying to understand and be clear about what the teaching is. But you're not, you're not, you're taking them literally. And if you don't understand them literally, then while, if you don't understand them literally, then you keep working until you understand them literally. That's the first level. And some, that might be quite a bit of work to understand literally. Second level, you don't have to take them literally anymore. You can actually start, first, you can start

[48:03]

trying to understand, for example, what's the intent. Now, if you start to move to try to understand the intent, it isn't that you reject the literal meaning, it's that you reject the literal meaning. It just, for the time being, you're not, you're not trying to mine the literal side of the meaning anymore. You've got the literal meaning. You've got a wisdom of the literal, of literal. And now you're trying to understand. Based on that understanding, what is the intent? Which you didn't understand before. When you start to understand the intent of something, then it's not so literal. Does that make sense? Like when you know the reason someone has for telling you something, somehow that, it doesn't seem so literal anymore what they said. Like if someone says, I hate you. The first level of wisdom is take that literally. Second level is, what's their, what are they driving at?

[49:09]

What's their intention? See? Their intention might be to communicate, to let you know they're in pain. Is it hot? If anybody feels able to open some windows or doors. So, I think we're getting started on studying the three kinds of wisdom. And if you can stand it, we can go deeper into developing the three kinds of wisdom about the three kinds of wisdom. Or at least one kind of wisdom about the three kinds of wisdom. Or maybe two. But anyway, I thought maybe to go more into this, because we never did this before, right? This is like something we haven't really done before. And it's, what do you call it?

[50:15]

It's here, and fresh, and to be enjoyed. You have any questions about what's come up so far in relationship to these three wisdoms? Yes? I heard the story that the sixth ancestor was awoke upon hearing the teaching in a market, yes, that seems inconsistent with what you said about the first level of wisdom not being liberated. Well, the way we would understand that would be that he understood it in the third way. He was, he had already, he already, he had already heard the teaching of the Bodhisattva giving rise to a mind which has no abode. He'd already heard that teaching and, you know, understood that teaching at the literal level. He'd also understood it

[51:19]

at the level of understanding the Buddha's intent of talking that way. Okay? He already understood that. Either in earlier part of his life as a woodcutter, you know, as a poor, as a not very wealthy Chinese uneducated person, or in a previous life. So in this life, when he heard that teaching, he already had the previous two wisdoms, and he was walking around in this Bodhisattva Samadhi, and when he heard it, he was liberative. He awoke. Now, another possibility is that he heard it and he had just the first kind of wisdom. He didn't have the third kind of wisdom. He was not liberated. That's another possible interpretation. The first level of wisdom is liberation in a sense of you're liberated from your mind that didn't understand it, but it's not liberated in a sense that you have, you know,

[52:21]

definitively liberated yourself from suffering. So I would think that I would go for the interpretation which involves, you know, that he was pre-educated. He couldn't read Chinese, but he had already received a Buddhist education on this teaching. So when he heard it, he already understood it at the first two levels. That's how I would explain that. Is it possible that he could have gone through all three stages at once? Yes, it is possible that he went through all stages at once, yes. If you're in Samadhi, you can speed up the education process. Max, I think, was next. With respect to the example of someone saying they hate you, would the third level be looking at that from dependent co-arising, like a state of, oh, they're saying they hate me, but they don't really have an inherent self? The third level would be to, yeah, would be to, first of all,

[53:29]

doing the first two, right? Yeah. Taking it literally, not hedging on that at all, and understanding. I understand. I got it. I got it. She hates me. I mean, no, I got it. She says she hates me. Literally, it's not that she hates you, it's that literally the teaching is not that she hates you, the teacher tells you. Right. It isn't that she hates you, it's that she said she hated you. That's the literal teaching, okay? The next level is, perhaps, we deduce, we figure out, we analyze, we reason, we check the scriptures, and we find out that the intent is not… not the intent is not, but the intent is to let us know something, and what she wants to let us know is that she feels that she can't get to you, that she can't… she feels that you never hear her, you never… she has no impact on you. She's trying to see if she can draw blood,

[54:29]

because she thinks you're a god, and she loves you very much. So, her intent is to make contact. So, you know, some of you can guess who I'm talking about. Can you? Your daughter. My daughter, yeah. My daughter, for years, said, I hate you, I hate you, and then… and she used to call me all these names. And I used to… I used to just, you know, I understood her intent. I never… I mean, I literally understood, my daughter is saying this to me, but I immediately had understood her intent. No, no, I didn't really understand her intent, but I knew, I didn't take it literally, and I didn't quite get to the point of understanding the intent. The intent was, as I explained, she was trying to see if she could relate to me, because to say, you know, nice daddy, or I love you daddy, that doesn't necessarily get to daddy either.

[55:32]

Daddy says, oh, I don't know what, you know, but… that's something which wouldn't make that necessarily push a person around, right? But if you say, I hate you, if you say, which is an expression of I'm frustrated in my attempt to get feedback and some realization, some verification that I have some effect on you, that I'm not a nothing. When I understood, you know, understanding that intent, then that's the next level. Second level, yeah. Then the next level of understanding the dependent co-arising of it, that liberates me from suffering, because then I understand the emptiness of the whole process, not just the emptiness of what she said, not just the emptiness of me and the emptiness of her. The first level, I take it literally. Literally, there is a suffering person,

[56:34]

and there is someone who doesn't… well, who sees that and hears that. Next level is, you understand the intent of the suffering person, then you finally understand the emptiness of the statement, of the speaker and of the hearer. So that would be… and you understand it not at the first level, the second level, and the third level. So it doesn't hurt, because there is no self to be… it doesn't hurt if she says she hates you. It does hurt. It doesn't hurt. It does hurt, because there are the first two levels. Oh, I see. Okay. But you're guessing at your intent anyway. It's not final. Well, the second thing is not guessing, actually. You actually like… you get verified… I don't really know the intent. You actually… you verify… you check it with the scriptures. And you check it with… and if it's a scripture… if in this case, the scripture is a person, you check it with the person. You get a person… you talk to the person. And also, you reason. And by reasoning, you understand the intent.

[57:38]

And if you're wrong, then you're wrong. But you can check… you can check and verify that you understood the intent. You can ask the person. You know, there's a way to find out. But still, this object is not liberative. It's not the ultimate. You still don't see how this intent which you understood has the same nature as other intents and also has the same nature of what you understood before you understood the intent. You still don't understand that. The third level, you understand that. You understand the seamlessness of insult and non-insult. Okay? I don't know who is next. What's your name? I don't know if I'm next, but… Yes. My name is Janine. And I have the… my question is… is all three…

[58:40]

It's not like you want to push through the first level, through the second to try to get to the third, right? And I'm thinking because I just had this conversation with my sister today… No, you don't want to push. You don't want to push because, again, you practice virtue together with… I mean, you practice wisdom together with virtue. So you practice wisdom together with patience. You don't rush through this process. And also, you're practicing… you're practicing this wisdom practice with the basic practice of samadhi, of not seeking anything. So you're, like, happy to work with whatever level of understanding you have and that supports and energizes your… the wisdom practice. So you're not pushing. And you don't want to push through either because you go through these layers to get to the realization of the ultimate, which is liberative, but then you go back up through the other layers. You go back up through the layer of reasoning and examination and then you go back up into the level of literal speaking.

[59:41]

So you go down through these levels to realize the ultimate truth and you come back to these levels to communicate. So you use all three to go down and you don't trash the earlier ones and you use them to get back up, to relate, to bring the wisdom back into the practice of virtue. So the wisdom comes back and plays in the world of virtue. Yeah, we don't trash it. Yes, Steve. If the teacher teaches from the first level only, isn't that likely to cause the hearer to doubt the teacher because the teacher hasn't achieved the third level? For example, suppose I read the menu of a restaurant that I've never been to and the menu sounds delicious

[60:44]

and I tell you that the food is delicious and then you say, have you been there? And I say, no, I've never been there. Well, won't you think, hmm, what kind of information is this? What kind of teaching is this? He hasn't realized it at the third level, but he's teaching it at the first level. Well, we could have it like a team of teachers. Yeah, you could have teachers teaching at the first level quite nicely but they don't understand the other layers, the other levels. So maybe you talk to the teacher, do you understand all three? And they may say, no, just the first one. And you may say, well, don't teach until you understand all three. And they might say, okay. Or they might say, no, I've only understood the first two levels, not the third level. So can I teach the first one,

[61:46]

even if I haven't recently realized the second one and the third one? Maybe, I think so. In other words, I think you can tell people, you can hear about the teachings of karma. You can understand them and have confidence in them and share them with others prior to realizing the ultimate. However, if you've realized the ultimate, you probably would have considerably more skill in teaching all three levels but you wouldn't be able to honestly say that you've realized the ultimate. But you could teach at the literal level if you've only understood the literal level. But perhaps you should say, I've only understood the literal level. Or you might even say, I'm going to teach the literal level but I haven't yet quite thoroughly understood the literal level

[62:48]

but I still know more than you because you have never heard anything about this restaurant. I can tell you that on the literal level, this restaurant is located on Page and Laguna and they say it's a vegetarian restaurant. So I think that's part of having a teacher is to check out, do they understand emptiness? And so a teacher could teach you something about emptiness more than you know if they've studied more even though they had not yet realized it. If we expected all the teachers to have realized emptiness then I don't think there would be any discussion of anything much on this planet right now because almost nobody is claiming that they really understand emptiness.

[63:53]

The Dalai Lama said something like, my understanding of emptiness needs some work, I heard. So nobody's really saying that they have complete realization of emptiness, almost no one's saying it. But even if they, that doesn't mean that nobody has because those who had might not be saying so. But it might be possible anyway to question the teacher and just say, well, have you realized emptiness? And then they might say, well, if I said I had been, if I said I had, if I said I had realized it I would be bragging and if I said I hadn't, what would you do? Would you stand up and walk out on me? I'm not going to say I haven't realized emptiness if that's going to discourage you too much.

[64:54]

And you might say, I'll be fine. And I say, well, not too good, my understanding isn't too good. It's just like, I'm really just working on it myself. I don't know, I really don't know much about emptiness. You might say, okay, what do you know about emptiness? Well, I know, blah blah. Yeah, that's interesting. I know more than you, do you want to hear? And so on. So I think it's just, I think it's okay in Buddhist tradition if somebody is talking about emptiness, just you can, I think it's okay to say, may I ask you a question? It's okay to ask questions about, like that. And they might say, yes, could I ask you a question about whether you understand, your level of understanding of emptiness? Is it at the level of Shrutamayi Prajna, wisdom arisen from hearing? Or is it the level of wisdom arisen from reflection and analysis? Is it wisdom at the level of meditation? Have you had like this meeting with the teaching of emptiness

[65:57]

as it appears in Samadhi? Have you seen how it is there? You can check. The person can say, tell you. And then if they, whatever they tell you, you can ask questions about whatever level they're at. So it's okay to ask and get straight what you're working with here. Although, you know, it's a tricky conversation, but I think there's a polite way to ascertain what kind of teacher you got there. And before we get into that, maybe we should stop the class. Maybe by next week, if you ask me, I will have some understanding of something. Oh, yes, just a second. Are we going to talk about the four schools? Talking about the four schools might be possible still.

[66:58]

And the place that they're talking about the four schools would come in would be, first of all, we'd hear about the first schools and we would hear about them on the level of hearing, right? Yeah. And then we would do it on the level of reflection. And the four schools are also ways that help us study the different understandings of emptiness. The four schools of Buddhism are four different ways of understanding emptiness. So part of understanding emptiness is to like, if you can immediately leap to the fourth school, great. But after you get there, you might just take a minute and go back and check the previous three schools just to see if you understand where they come up short. So in fact, as we approach studying emptiness or selflessness, which is a fundamental teaching in Buddhism, looking at emptiness through those four schools, it actually will sharpen our wits.

[68:02]

Sharp-witted, yeah. It will sharpen our wits to use those four schools to look at the different ways that emptiness or selflessness can be discussed. So maybe we will. We'll see. May our intention be bright.

[68:24]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ