I think I was invited to speak to you on the topic of some relationship between what we have invented and so I thought of speaking to you and I thought the name of the gathering is, what's it called, Team Beyond Japan, and I heard a message about that and that's why I said, to be beyond Japan, so I thought, oh maybe I shouldn't talk about Japan then,

[01:03]

it's what we beyond Japan, so now what's Team Beyond Japan, I thought, hmm, and I thought, oh well, China's beyond Japan! Actually, to some extent I'd like to talk to you about something that happened in China, which we call Chan, or Zen, and its relationship with tea. I also wanted to mention that I've heard there's an expression that the flavor of Zen and the flavor of Chan or Yu are the same, and although in some sense that's true, in some other sense it's not, because of course there is tea ceremony for some people who don't wish to relate to

[02:12]

Zen at all, and there's many kinds of tea drinking that's very important to humans where those practitioners of the tea practice might not really appreciate being told that what they're doing is Zen. But still, I think it is very clear that there is a very deep connection between particularly tea practice, the practice of tea in Japan, the way of tea in Japan and Zen, a very deep connection, even if they're not the same. And as some of you may know, there is both in China and Japan a long history of the culture of growing and drinking tea in association with other cultural forms and other forms

[03:18]

of Buddhism. But I think it can be said that what we call Chan or Yu really did arise in association with the Zen school in Japan, and that the practice of tea in some form occurred long before Zen was transmitted to Japan, Zen was transmitted in Japan in the early Kamakura or the late Heian, but mostly in the 13th and 14th centuries Zen was brought over from China to Japan. The tea drinking practice in association with the cultural center of Japan occurred from early Heian, in the 9th and 10th centuries.

[04:19]

And some people would say, well, how come the other schools of Buddhism didn't sponsor or that tea ceremony didn't grow up with the other schools of Buddhism which preceded Zen, and I think there's a good argument for saying the reason is because when Zen was transmitted, part of what was transmitted was a monastic tradition, and the monastic tradition had considerable instruction about how to have tea in a ceremonial way in groups, whereas in the other schools there was nothing comparable in terms of fairly detailed practices of having tea together, informal practice setting in groups. And even today some people, of course, have tea at Pete's or Starbucks or in their house,

[05:32]

and I think tea tastes pretty good sometimes, but one of our former tea teachers here at Green Grove said, tea never tastes as good outside the tea room. So having tea by yourself can be quite wonderful, but to do it together in a ceremonial form somehow is different, as I think you know. And the spread of tea outside of the monasteries in a ceremonial way also may have had to do in Japan with the samurai class, because I think the rise of the samurai and the rise of the Zen school were simultaneous. The introduction of Zen and the beginning of tea and the rising of samurai occur in

[06:37]

the 13th and 14th century, and the samurai liked the organized way that Zen monasteries were run, so tea came along with that. In particular, I'd like to refer to a text, a Chinese text, it's called Chao-nyuan Jing-Guei, in Japanese it's called, Japanese pronunciation is Zen-An-Shin-Gi or Zen-An-Shin-Gi, the Zen meaning garden, pure rules. And this text was compiled in 1103, I think, and at the time that the first transmitters

[07:39]

of Zen went to China, the first transmitters of Zen to Japan went to China, A. Yosai Zen-Gi and Dogen Zen-Gi, this text was the most influential monastic manual in China, so they were exposed to this and Dogen brought this back with him and he constructed his pure rules for his monastery, very much based on this text. And in this text, there is a big section, I would say, on tea ceremony. Actually, it's a seven fascicle text and one whole fascicle, one-seventh of it is all

[08:41]

about tea ceremonies, so there's actually, in this section on tea ceremony, there's a ceremony for the completion of the chief officer's term, but even in the ceremony for the completion of the chief officer's term, there's a tea ceremony as part of the transition from one chief officer to another. And then they have in here a description of tea ceremony sponsored by the abbot's office, tea ceremony held in the community hall, tea ceremony hosted by the administrators or the chief officers, tea ceremony in the assembly quarters hosted by the senior monks, tea ceremony hosted by the whole community, tea ceremony hosted by the community and elder

[09:41]

monks, and tea ceremony for the abbot by the senior monks and relatives. Actually, this ceremony goes over into the next fascicle, and in the next ceremony there's also instructions for the burning of incense during the tea ceremony in the assembly's honor. So, even more than one fascicle, even more than one-seventh of this whole text is devoted to ceremonies around tea. Now, usually to read a text to people is kind of, makes people go to sleep, or gives them an opportunity to go to sleep, as she said, because they make them, but it's a good

[10:42]

time to take a nap and read an ancient Chinese text. So I thought maybe I shouldn't read it, but in some sense, to give you a flavor for it, it's necessary to read it, because probably not all of you will read this text, even though it is now in English. And it's interesting that the word that they use for tea ceremony is jian dian, and jian means to fry foods, to fry or to fry foods. It could also be to fry other things, but in this case it's just to fry foods. And then dian is a character which means to dot, to make a dot, or puncture, or penetrate, or make a mark. Now in America we have these Chinese restaurants from the southern part of China, Guangzhou,

[11:53]

sometimes called Cantonese cooking, because Guangzhou is anglicized as Canton. So the southern cooking, Cantonese cooking, they have this nice tradition called dim sum. And dim sum, dim means, it's the same character, dian, which means to dot, and sum means your heart, or to puncture, or to penetrate. So it means to, you know, the fastest way to a woman's heart is through her stomach. It means to put a little dot, put something into your heart, into your stomach. Dim sum. In Mandarin it's called, it would be called, dian xin, dot the heart. So that thing dian, and dian xin, or dim sum, is the second character of the word for tea

[13:01]

ceremony, which literally means fried spot. So it's actually tea ceremony in a monastic situation is named after the food. So in a formal tea ceremony there isn't just food, I mean there isn't just tea, there's also food. In the less formal, there's just tea. But the name of the ceremony in this manual is literally, to cook food until dry and to use it to dip into the empty stomach. That's the name of the tea ceremony. So this, and each of these, it would be interesting for you to hear the difference in the feeling of the different ceremonies for tea. This is ceremony four, sponsored by the abbot.

[14:02]

In some sense this is the most formal of the ceremonies. The other ceremonies will have a little bit different flavor, different form. So this is the one the abbot sponsors. So at the time of the night sermon, or before the early meal, the attendant informs the abbot, saying, tomorrow a tea ceremony is going to be held for x. So the abbot would sponsor a ceremony for somebody, in honor of someone. Before the midday meal, the attendant supervised his servants, like we had serviced just now, in preparations of hot water vessels. The water should be replaced and boiled. Fresh, boiled water.

[15:05]

Tea cups and stands, tea trays, which should be washed and polished. Scented flowers, the seats, the medicines, that is the confections. The seating chart, and the low-grade tea. Once all these things are prepared, invitations are carefully made. This would be handwritten invitations that would be sent out to people and posted around the community. When inviting a guest, the attendant bows respectfully, saying, The abbot is holding a tea ceremony for Mr. So-and-so, after the midday meal.

[16:06]

When you hear the sound of the drum, please come to attend. He then bows again and withdraws. His manner should be dignified, and not mirthful or insincere. On the occasion of a special sweetened soup service, the abbot should also be informed the previous night, or before the midday meal. After the midday meal, the attendant should supervise the servers in the preparations of cups and stands, and the sweetened soup, etc., as above. The invitation should be worded, Tonight, after the hiatus from the sermon, the abbot will host a sweetened soup service for So-and-so. After the meal, the attendant goes to the abbot's quarters and prepares an incense

[17:12]

holder for the abbot and the seats. Once the water vessels, as well as the teacups and stands, have been attended to, the server has displayed the tea in the proper fashion. The incense stand is for the incense burner only, the incense case, the confection case, and the teacups should be placed separately elsewhere. The attendant should inform the abbot when the tea drum struck. If the tea is not fully prepared before the drum struck, the assembly will have to sit too long and may become irritated. When the attendant, from the storage hall, strikes the drum, or when the members of the

[18:15]

residents strike board, the board is a wooden sounding board, they must know this rule about not striking too early. All the guests assemble and the attendant enters and greets them. This is the abbot's attendant. Only then is the drum no longer struck. The guests enter the hall and take their seats in order, beginning with the chief seat. In the case of a guest not arriving on time, the attendant should send someone to collect him. The chief virtue, however, is to avoid disturbing the abbot's peace of mind. The attendant should not act with excessive haste.

[19:21]

By the way, it says him here, and that, in this case, means him. There would be other monasteries where it would be all women in China, and then it would say her, unless they invited a guest, honored a guest. The actual people who are doing the ceremony, in this case, are all men. Men who are being trained to be gentlemen by this point. The attendant should wait until everyone has gathered before he invites the abbot to enter. If any guest is absent, the attendant must wait for instructions from the abbot. Then he may withdraw any extra chairs. If the abbot does not give any instruction, the attendant cannot withdraw the chair on his own initiative. Even if a guest is absent, or the ceremony is not proceeding properly, the abbot should

[20:31]

not show any expression of emotion to those assembled, lest he should make the guest uncomfortable. However, it is also permitted for the abbot to come out beforehand and stand in front of his chair and wait for the assembly while the guest, while the attendant greets the guests as they arrive. When the guests and the hosts are all standing in place, the attendant, who stands in the northeast corner of the banquet hall, steps forward and bows and invites the guests to be seated. The attendant then invites the guests to burn incense and bow in order of rank from senior to junior. The attendant responds to this courtesy and bows on behalf of the abbot.

[21:36]

The invited guests should perform this incense offering one by one, each with a demeanor of respect and sincerity, without arrogance or carelessness. After some time, more incense should be lit. To properly burn the incense, the attendant should stand beside the incense table, facing east towards the abbot. Open the incense case and lift up the incense. He should lift up the case with both hands and then use the right hand to place it into the palm of his left hand. He then uses his right hand to lift the lid off the case and place it on the incense stand.

[22:45]

Then again with the right hand, he lifts up the incense and faces the guest of honor, after which he places the incense in the burner and lets it burn. He then uses his right hand to replace the lid and then uses both hands to return the case to the incense stand. He must do all this gently and carefully, making sure not any noise is made and let the case fall to the ground, or let the case fall to the ground. After this, he need not bow, but should simply adjust his sitting mat and clasp his hands. Then he approaches the guest of honor and bows. In some monasteries, when the guests have taken their seats, the attendant will stand beside

[23:49]

the abbot and invite the sitting mat, or invite the incense, that is, have the items brought in and offered, in order to show solemn courtesy on the occasion. However, here, in the example of the present text, the attendant stands beside the incense stand and bows to the abbot to symbolize courtesy of inviting the incense offering. The attendant then turns and stands with his hands clasped, like this, or like this. First, he invites the guests to have tea, and then he bows to encourage them to have more tea. Next, he burns incense and invites them to have still more tea.

[24:52]

After this, the confections are presented and the attendant invites the guests to eat them. Then he invites them to have tea again, and then bows once more to persuade them to have more tea. After the tea is over, the attendant will step forward and bow. He then has someone collect the teacups and stands. Finally, he bows and departs from his post. The attendant instructs the server beforehand to be ready, so as soon as the guests stand up, he can immediately move the chair of the abbot. The guest of honor then comes forward one or two steps towards the abbot, bows in gratitude for the offered tea and withdraws.

[25:55]

The abbot then escorts all the guests to the door, and each guest turns to bow to the abbot as he leaves. The attendant instructs the servers to remove all the chairs, seat cushions, fans, napkins, and incense stand tablecloth. They then clean up the teacups and stands, check to see that all the items are accounted for, and wash everything. Then the attendants and servers have tea themselves, after which they are free to do as they like. They should always avoid troubling the abbot, and should simply respect his instructions. As I read this, I imagined that you felt some resonance between these instructions and a

[27:29]

modern day tea ceremony. The server offering and inviting, offering things and inviting, but not just offering, but inviting you to receive it. Not just bringing it to you, but then saying, please have it. This ceremony was written down in 1103, or published in 1103, so in the previous century at least, we know that they were practicing this way in Chinese monasteries. So it looks very much like tea ceremony comes right out of this interplay between humans in the Zen monasteries. This careful, gentle, respectful, dignified, but not arrogant way of relating to each other

[28:35]

and of inviting and being invited. Nobody is taking anything for granted. Other people might be doing that, but the form is to say, this is for you, please have it. And I feel that the main point here of this whole lifestyle in the monastery is to enact the reality of our life, which is that we invite each other, we make offerings to each other, and we invite each other by the offering to receive the offering. And we are offered and are invited to receive what we are offered. And that the Zen monastery is not just a place to become enlightened, and to become

[29:48]

free in the world, but it's actually an opportunity to make a new world. To make a world that manifests the realm which, when seen, liberates us. So it's possible that even people who have difficulty doing meditations in such a way that they could see the truth of their own mind and the relationship between themselves and the world, if they go to a Zen monastery and enter into a tea ceremony, just by being in a tea ceremony, they can see the truth of how things actually are. They can see how we are actually working together in harmony and peace. They can see how we are actually respectful of each other and appreciate each other.

[30:52]

And they can see how we can even have, like, an old man or an old woman who we are very careful and respectful of, and that somehow doesn't demean the younger people. That there's a joy in being together, even with hierarchy, which also can be, of course, enacted in such a way that it seems to be demonstrating a lack of peace and harmony. But the point, the ceremony here is to show that even within the structures of a functioning society, where you have seniors and juniors, through the forms of tea ceremony, and then of course you also have forms of work, forms of meditation, forms of sutra recitation, forms of cooking, forms of entering and leaving the monastery, forms of fundraising, forms

[31:56]

of appointing people to office, forms of retiring from office, all these forms are not just to be formal, but so that people can see, can demonstrate, that people can live together in peace and harmony. In India, I don't know if Indian Buddhist communities had this kind of ceremony for having tea. I don't know. In Indian records, we do have them, but actually I will now embark upon an exploration to try to find out from the Indian monastic manuals if there is instruction for tea ceremony. I don't know if there was, but there is, there is other kinds of instruction, but generally

[32:59]

speaking in India, the instructions for the monks tended to be sort of emphasizing the monk's own behavior. So the early Buddhist instruction for the monks and also the lay people was to a great extent directed towards your own personal conduct and purification of your own conduct, your own behavior. So that's the early emphasis of the instructions for conduct. Later in India, and also in China too, with the rise of what we call the universal vehicle,

[34:03]

another set of instructions for conduct arose, and those are the precepts, not so much for personal purity, but precepts for realizing and enacting compassion and kindness and service. So those are the precepts of the Mahayana, the great vehicle, not so much the concern of the vehicle of individual freedom, but more the vehicle of liberation of all beings. And there the emphasis is not so much on me or you becoming personally pure, but how to purify our relationships, how to have compassionate relationships, purify our relationships of selfishness and unkindness. And of course this can be practiced in the monastery, out of the monastery. But in China, the Zen monasteries try to reconcile the meditation or the awareness of personal

[35:17]

conduct and harmonious, compassionate relationships. And the way they did it was by emphasizing precepts about how to live communally. So by the emphasis on communal relationship, you see in this instruction, there is instructions to people about what to do themselves, but it's all in the relationship to being kind and making others comfortable and expressing respect. But it's in a communal societal enactment, so that it bridges, it isn't really personal and it isn't really impersonal, it's communal. And so that's the additional step that Chinese Zen made in the history of Buddhism, to reconcile

[36:21]

the two major dimensions of earlier Buddhism, in terms of the personal conduct, compassionate relations, and draw them together to make an enlightened society. And a tea ceremony in Japan, not only extended, took these forms right out of the monastery. And I just might parenthetically mention that there are also detailed instructions about how to eat meals in monasteries. And the first tea ceremony I went to, I felt very encouraged by watching it, because it made me feel more encouraged to do our regular meal practice that we do at Zen Center. Because a lot of the ways of working with cloth and wrapping things is also very similar

[37:24]

to the way monks work with their eating bowls. So anyway, these forms are the basis for encouragement for a tea ceremony, which then becomes, outside the monastery, an opportunity to create these little societies throughout the world, where people can enter and socially interact in a way that demonstrates reality. And demonstrates that we can be at peace and harmony, as you know, even if we are warriors. So that warriors could actually come into the tea room and be very dignified, careful, not arrogant, that's a hard one for a warrior, but that they could be actually not arrogant

[38:32]

and sincere through the form together. And if warriors get together and they are not arrogant with each other, and sincere and careful and respectful, it tends to promote the possibility that they won't slaughter each other. But as you may know, samurais would, for the slightest expression of disrespect, would administer a fatal blow, such as that. So warriors with each other were very frightened. So if we practice these forms, we can start to relax with each other a little bit, even though there is danger all the time. So that's another reason for, I think, perhaps the growth.

[39:34]

And not only that, but it grew beyond just men together and women together. So finally men and women could mingle through the tea ceremony. And in the monasteries in Asia, there is still a segregation of men and women mostly, so that's another reason for the virtue of the tea ceremony, that it can offer an opportunity for men and women to gather in peace and harmony, and challenge each other, and help each other extend the realm of harmony beyond just the males together and the females together. So I'm glad that you're practicing tea ceremony, because I think you are not so much extending

[40:40]

Zen practice beyond visual bounds, but that you're sharing with Zen practice the great function of manifesting the truth in the world, demonstrating the way things really are, even though they don't seem to be that way. There really is peace and harmony always happening among us, and tea ceremony demonstrates that. And property function in monasteries also demonstrates that. Like some people say, if you go to a Zen monastery, it's not so much whether the teacher gives really good talks, or seems to be enlightened, but two members of the community love each

[41:45]

other, even if you have a lousy habit of teaching. The important point is that everybody in the community is kind to each other, including being kind to the lousy teacher, taking care of the not-very-enlightened leader. So if everybody is really kind to the not-very-enlightened leader, it's a good society. And so of course now it's very hard for us in America to be kind to our not-very-enlightened leaders, because not-very-enlightened leaders can be part of a pattern that doesn't seem to be peaceful and harmonious. But some people anyway need to find some way to be respectful and assist unskillful leaders, and not be afraid that peace and harmony could happen even with unskillful leaders.

[42:51]

Is there anything else you want to bring up? Yes. Yes. I think that really what's happening is that we are functioning in peace and harmony. I think that is the teaching of the Buddha. The Buddha, the founder of the tradition in India, was a person who had a pretty happy

[44:06]

childhood. Apparently, the stories go that he lived in a very uncomfortable environment. He and Buddha said, when I lived at my dad's house, I was very comfortable. Very comfortable. Good food, good-looking people. As a matter of fact, there's also a story that his father kind of arranged things so that he'd be surrounded by really healthy, happy people all day long. Somebody was... That was at my daughter's house. And I saw this ad, you know? It had these pictures of these men frantically going into supermarkets and getting all the milk that they could get. And some guys were almost fighting over the milk to try to get the milk.

[45:09]

And one guy was running onto a milk truck and taking the milk off the milk truck and throwing the money down in the seat of the driver's seat. And then the subtitle says, Calcium may significantly reduce some of the symptoms of PMS. And then this has pictures of a man with all these huge piles of milk coming in the door of his house and saying, Dear, are you here? I'm home. So anyway, the Buddha lived in an environment where women were like having PMS. You know, they were sort of like taken to a rest area. So he didn't get exposed to any of the difficulties of life in his house.

[46:16]

And I think that's fine to shelter people so that they can, you know, be able to relax and be happy. But then when he saw the ordinary world and he saw old people, he got very nervous. And he was embarrassed too. The Buddha was embarrassed. He said, I see old people, you know, I'm going to be old too. But still, when I see them, I kind of feel a little, a little queasy or like a little bit like, ooh, uncomfortable and kind of scared. They're so decrepit and sickly looking and frail. It's kind of scary. But he was embarrassed because it didn't make sense that we should be afraid of old people because we're going to be old. So the Buddha, before the Buddha was awakened, the Buddha actually looked at the world and said, this place is scary and difficult. He had become numbed by being brutalized by the harshness of the world.

[47:21]

He hadn't become numb and endured. You know, numb? Numb? Yeah. He wasn't like, he wasn't like, the suffering of the world affected him. But then after he practiced and awoke, he saw that actually the world is not so bad in some ways, or not the world, but the reality is that we're all actually working together harmoniously. And that it's inconceivably wonderful how nicely we're actually getting along. He saw that. So actually, that's what the Buddha sees. But it looks like sometimes it isn't that way. So if you have a Zen monastery or a tea ceremony, it can look like people are fighting with each other. It can look like the tea practice people are saying, you know, she's not too good at the te-mai. That wasn't a very good te-mai that she did.

[48:25]

And you know why she doesn't do a good te-mai? Because she's... blah-de-blah. And then the people down the road feel like, there's an assistant very harmonious today here in the tea room. It looks like that. And the person who may be making the tea feels this, and feels, oh, this isn't very harmonious today. So it looks like they're actually being petty and competitive in the tea room. Fighting dragons. Looks like that. It can be that, even in a tea room. Right? It's not true, but it can look like that. So it's nice in the tea room actually to put on a little show. A little show like, it looks like we actually love each other. We actually respect each other. We actually really appreciate the tea that was given to us.

[49:30]

We actually appreciate the person's way of making it. We actually appreciate the effort that went into cleaning it, even if it's not so clean as it was yesterday. So we clean it, we polish, we arrange everything, we're careful, and then we actually appreciate that people do this. And if they don't clean very well, and if they don't move very carefully, we appreciate the way they don't move very carefully. And somehow we find a way to make it beautiful, no matter what happens. And if we can't, then it doesn't look like we can. I mean, if we can't see a way to be respectful and appreciative of what's going on, then it looks like we're not being respectful and appreciative, and it looks like we're not being harmonious. So we say it's not the show. However, the society of the tea room, or the society of the monastery, looks like it's not demonstrating the way things really are.

[50:32]

It looks like it's demonstrating the way things aren't. Namely, superficial pettiness, cruelty, and misery, which we have plenty of. If we can make a place where it looks like peace and harmony, then people can say, I wonder if it's really true. Let's keep studying tea, let's keep studying Zen, and find out that it doesn't just look peaceful and harmonious, it really is. In the room where you can see, it looks peaceful and harmonious, but actually, even beyond what you can see, it's peaceful and harmonious. But by showing people peace and harmony, in the realm they can see, you can say, now do you want to see what peace and harmony really looks like? Well, you just keep practicing tea, and you just keep practicing Zen, or both,

[51:35]

and you will understand that there's a peace and harmony which is here now, when you can see it, and when you can't see it, it's here too. So that even when there's disharmony, and people are fighting with each other, somebody can show them there's still peace and harmony right here. Look, I still respect you, even though you know you're being petty. You know you're being cruel. But I still respect you, because I actually see that this is not your true nature. Because I can see your true nature, because I've practiced tea for many years, I've practiced Zen for many years, so now why don't we just drop this superficial pettiness and be magnanimous? And you say, OK. And then we put on another show of being big-minded, because it's not just to be big-minded,

[52:38]

it's that big-minded is reality. But still it's good to make a little show of reality, because we have plenty of shows of unreality, of your war, and disrespect, and selfishness, and cruelty, etc. We have plenty of that. We need more Zen gardens, and more tea gardens. So some people are afraid of Zen, that's part of the reason why it's nice to have a tea garden, and our other gardens here, because they can come down, they can go in the garden and they can feel some peace and harmony, and then, maybe I'll start practicing tea. If they like the tea garden, they start practicing tea, if they like the other gardens, they start practicing Zen. Or they taste some tea, and they say, mmm... So they start practicing tea, or they taste some bread, and they start practicing Zen. These are skillful means to create just an appearance

[53:42]

that people can see. So, if we make a monastery where things aren't going well, then the show isn't good, still things are going fine, but the show isn't so good, so it doesn't attract people. The people who are already enlightened, they say, I get the joke, you're just putting on this, you're just making this kind of unfriendly Zen temple just to test me. And I didn't fall for it, I know really this is a loving place, not a place full of stiff, cold people. That's not really what it's like here, but thanks for the test, I got the joke, that was a good one. But people who aren't enlightened, they come to the Zen temple, and the people are cold, and unfriendly, and unhelpful, and make them feel like they wish they would go away. Then those people go, oh, I guess they don't want me here. I guess this is not a good place. Then they go off, and maybe they can't find any place where they will get introduced to reality. So generally speaking, for the new people,

[54:47]

let's just put on a really nice harmonious team. And since we never know who the new people are, let's make a nice harmonious team. Does that make sense to you? You want to help? We call ourselves TV on Japan, and in some ways, what you and your predecessors have built is TV on Japan. You seem to be very successful. We feel very warm and comfortable here, and so the illusion, the traditional illusion, is working perfectly. Do you have some advice for us on the TV on Japan side? Hints for success? I think you just said it. I think that be very kind to everyone that comes to practice with you. Be very respectful

[55:48]

of every person and every thing. Every tea whisk, every cup of tea, every teaspoon, every ladle, every tatami mat, every wall, every piece of incense. And after you're done, wash them carefully and put them back where they came from. And if other people don't put them back where they came from, be very kind to them and patient with them, and loving to them to help them learn how to be kind and careful with all these things, all these treasures. One picture of early tea in Japan was people gathering together in a room decorated with treasures. Well, the Zen monastery, it's just that we treat everything as though it were a treasure. We treat the environment

[56:49]

as though it is a treasure. So, again, this is the ecological thrust of Zen and Tishyamon, is to treat everything as a treasure, but also treat the people who aren't treating things as treasures as though they're treasures. People who haven't learned that everything's a treasure, who only think some things are a treasure, they're treasures too. And they're treasures for your growth in patience and kindness, because they're like the cutting, they're the growing edge. They're the place where you kind of feel like this person's not being respectful of the situation. This person is not appreciating the treasures in the room or the treasures everywhere. But they're a treasure for me, because this is how I will grow in my practice, to be challenged by them, to be kind even to them. Of course, you can also be kind to the people

[57:51]

who are appreciating things too. So I think that's the main thing. And then try to think of what forms... You already have all the forms, so just be kind to all the forms, be kind to all the things, be kind to all the people. That's the main thing. Of course, that's not really beyond Japan. That's the main point of Japanese tea and Japanese Zen and Chinese Zen and Indian Zen and Western Zen. That's the main point. Because that's reality, is that we are actually working together intimately. The reality is my life is a gift from you. That's reality. And your life is a gift from us. That's reality. And when we see that, then we naturally are this way. And before we completely see that,

[58:53]

we need to enact that, practice that, until the practice and the actuality are completely one. Yes? Maybe we should change the name of the group from Tea Beyond Japan to Tea in the Universe. Yeah, that's a good viewpoint. Yes? Sometimes taking what we do in the tea room, not so much what we learn in the tea room, is a dangerous thing to take to the larger world. Say that again? Taking something we do in the tea room rather than what we've learned in the tea room to the larger world sometimes becomes a little out of place. Yeah, it's possible. And I'm recalling a time when there was some extra food from a meal. You take the doggy bag out of the restaurant. There's a hungry person seeking a handout at the restaurant.

[59:57]

And you offer extra food, but they refuse. So the beginning of tea, the ipuku-sashiage-masai, going to give you a little something, it's stopped. It's a very difficult point to do what you do in a rarefied situation in the larger world. Yeah. But sometimes, even in a rarefied situation, sometimes it's difficult. So, what do you do when, in a rarefied situation, you feel blocked? How do you handle that block? Then when you come out of the rarefied situation into the bigger world, then what do you do with the block? And then, what you learn in the tea ceremony, that can use that when I feel blocked outside. So the tea ceremony, again, as you know, some tea teachers

[60:58]

love their tea students, but they sometimes also push their tea students a little bit to move into areas that are, you know, like Nakamura Sensei didn't let us step over and over until we got down. Just when we got it barely kind of together, she pushes to another thing. Which I thought was good, that we never really like... We almost always challenge. I like that method. Rather than go over it ten times after we kind of got it. So that was her way. But that was good. So that, you know, you never really get it. You never really get any of the ceremonies. But if you can practice many years never getting any of the ceremonies, finally the ceremony will get you. So in fact, people look at you and say,

[62:02]

Oh, she knows it perfectly. But she never, all those years, she never really got it. Because the teacher always, just when she was about to get it, the teacher moved her on to another ceremony, another form. Because you don't want to get tea ceremony, you want to be tea ceremony. But then, you know, too, you feel medicine stress there when the teacher pushes you. So what do you do with that? So that patience in the ceremony, that will help you extend it outside and help you be flexible. So we're trying to make a tea person, right? And then, when we put a tea person in a tea room, suddenly you see the tea form. Take them out of the tea room, you don't see the tea form anymore, you see the tea person. And, as they walk down the street and meet a homeless person, it becomes a tea ceremony.

[63:03]

Or a ballet, or whatever you want to call it. It becomes beautiful. It's a beautiful interaction between that person and this other person. When you put them in a tea ceremony, it's a beautiful interaction, but then they're called tea. Put them in our situation, it's a beautiful interaction, we call it tango. Put them in our situation, we call it Zen meditation. Put them in our situation, it's called Catholic meditation. So you put a tea person in a cathedral, they look like they're, you know, they're part of the cathedral, then they fit right in. If they're well-developed. And the same, you would expect the same. A highly, a well-developed Catholic bishop, if you brought him in a tea room, they would fit right in with the tea ceremony. And both of them, move them out into the street, it would be something beautiful. But you wouldn't, you wouldn't call Catholicism necessarily

[64:09]

a tea ceremony in the street. But in fact, it would be the point of both of them. It would be something beautiful happening in a relationship. But it means, it's because they don't get, if they get it, if they get Catholicism, and they get Zen, and they get tea ceremony, then it's antithetical to both. I don't know, I think it's the same with Catholicism, but it's antithetical to tea, that you would get it. So since students like to learn things and get things, it's nice for teachers, just about when they're, you know, at a certain point, you don't think you've got it. So that's, that's good. You'd like to, but you don't. So, you know, I'm a person, and I like to get stuff, but I haven't got anything, so although I have this tendency, I haven't been able to indulge in it. But now, if I would just do this two more times, I would get it, and then I'm not allowed to, though. I remember one time,

[65:17]

when Nakamura Sensei was still here in America, we went to, over to Orasenke, on, I think it was on, yeah, it was on Larkin Street, and I think the, I mean, I think he was called Mr. Number Two, or something like that. He was, he was older than the Iei Motto, at that time. He was, maybe the second highest tea teacher in Japan. and then at the end, after the classes were over, he did the basic Tenmai, and, I don't know, Nakamura Sensei said, when she watched him, she said, he was, when he did it, it was just the Tenmai, that's all it was, it wasn't him doing it, just the Tenmai. And I also felt, it was nice,

[66:18]

because it didn't look at all unusual, or special, the way he did it. It was just the Tenmai. Now maybe there was less of something besides the Tenmai than there usually is when a person is involved in the Tenmai. But, even that wasn't particularly, you know, startling how there wasn't much besides the Tenmai. It was just the Tenmai. It was very ordinary and very lovely, but, he didn't really have the Tenmai. Tenmai had him. And the one, kind of like, to complete the picture of this person, which is, you know, to describe the shadow, is that he himself

[67:18]

could come to the Tenmai, could come to the classes, and he was very relaxed, and moved quite slowly. But he had this partner that he came with, who happens to be his wife. But she was moving, like, more rapidly. She was making lots of arrangements to make this thing happen. She was very active. So he was, in a sense, in a sense, like in this tea ceremony here, he was playing a part of it and she was playing a part of the server. So again, we watched to see if one person is playing this immovable, calm one, and the other person is running around inviting everybody and bowing to everybody and arranging everything and informing everybody carefully, and so on and so forth.

[68:19]

Is that done in such a way that we see that both sides are involved and that there really is respect and harmony at the level of the very active part and the very still part. So there too, I was watching that to see the relationship between... Because it's not just him, it's the whole scene. It wouldn't have been a scene for him to do the tamayam if his wife hadn't made all these arrangements and hadn't organized all this stuff. His wife and all the people she was orchestrating So we look at the whole scene in the tea room and the whole scene in the monastery. Is anybody being disrespected? Is everybody being taken care of? And the truth is, yes. But it does look like that. We should respect that and look at that and see how we can make it bring the truth into manifestation.

[69:22]

With attention over to his tamayam and his personality not being in there but just the form you know, just describe the oxfordic natures in the tea room. Because I think we would all go through there where you go through the form you master the form then you go to a to the level that your personality can make it yourself your own and then you go back to the original world. The ox is out there. Thank you. Another nice thing about tea ceremony which is somewhat similar to zen meditation is not having a clock in the room, right? Because in reality there really isn't any time. And yet people told me

[70:29]

to talk until 10.30. There's some hidden watches, aren't there? What time is it? 10.36.

[70:37]

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