It's one of those, right now, it's one of those times. Like we have in our life, you know? It's another one of those times. As you all know, right? This is a time towards the end of a practice period. just today and tomorrow, and then we have our closing ceremony. So there's a loop about that. They tend to think about three months together. And how does it feel to have done this time of practice together? In one sense, we're all thinking about that, and in another sense, I thought, well, let's get together in this room and sit down and think about it all together at once.

[01:13]

Let's all together recognize that we are all feeling what it's like to be here just a little while longer and having practice together so intensely for almost 90 days. Again, I'm just saying things that everybody knows, right? But just to sort of, on your behalf, to say it for all of us, that it's rare that spend as much time together and then can sit there and think about what it has been that we've done this, that we've shared this in this lifetime. So just to note that at the beginning of this class.

[02:17]

To tell you also that in some sense I was thinking not to have a class, just a regular wonderful morning of the monastery, of going through the sitting, is another way to feel it, but somehow to speak for you, to say that we're all feeling our last moments together, and also not trying to, we're all also probably trying to stay fresh, right? We're in this dilemma of feeling And at the same time, feeling today, and at the same time, tending to think of tomorrow. This is our situation, I guess. Also, I can present more material or not.

[03:24]

I'm ready to discuss the next two aspects of the Eightfold Path, right mindfulness and right concentration. But I'm also willing to go another way if you'd like to, like, something anybody wants to bring up now, here, since we don't have any other meetings planned, except for our regular silent meetings. And... vegetarian feasts and services, we don't have any other planned forums or discussions. So if anyone wants to bring something up now, questions from those disharmonious talks that I gave? That's good. That's good that you point that out.

[04:30]

It's good. Because they are disharmonious. It is disharmonious to tell people that right effort means not to go to the movies, not to go to sporting events, not to read the newspaper, not to blah blah, not to [...] all that stuff that people use to waste time. Right effort is abandoning that time-wasting activity. That's controversial. That's disharmonious with the world. Is it the case that you read The New Yorker? Huh? Is it the case that you read The New Yorker? I just look at the cartoons. So how do we know the cartoons aren't a time-wasting activity? Well, for me, obviously I'm doing it for the benefit of all beings. I mean, that's the only reason I look at those cartoons, and I get lots of encouragement from my talk. I share them with you often, don't I? Never. Huh? When I get to go, huh? What? I haven't heard you share New York. You haven't? Has anybody else ever heard me share my New York records?

[05:34]

Out in the world. I share them. Also, it used to have those, what do you call it, farside things. It's farside things, but snack area there. Snack counter? What did I say? I said farside things. So I used to read those in lectures. One of the important ones that I shared was that one where I was talking about, basically, Buddhist practice is like learning a new trick, right? and I shared that one about the dog going over the tightrope, you know, the dog riding a bicycle, you know, and he's carrying a pile of chairs and balancing various cats and so on. He said, you know, the crowd was hushed, and Omar thought to himself,

[06:38]

I'm a dog, and this is a new trick. I'm an old dog, and this is a new trick. The question is, when you go to the movies, do you really go to the movies out of an intention to benefit beings? Is that really where you're going? Do you really feel like people want you to go to the movies? Really? Huh? And if that's your spirit, I'm going to this movie because those people want me to go. If that's the reason you're going, fine. And you remember that through the whole movie. How about if I want Diagon to go to the movie because I want to see the movie? Diagon can be a pure monk because he's got you. And I've got Russo. I can do practically anything with her.

[07:44]

Like shopping. I hate shopping. No way do I go shopping for any other reason than to benefit beings. And, you know, I wonder if I do. But I think I do. I think when I go shopping... that all that suffering is worth it. I hate it. And a lot of other men do, too. They have these little chairs, you know, for them to sit in. Just sit down there. You'll be okay. I go into the store, and as soon as I get in there, my knees start getting weak. I do not do it for fun. I never go shopping by myself. I only go shopping with all beings. So my basic practice is no shopping. That's my practice. So, all these practices are a waste of time if you're not doing them for benefiting others. You're doing them for yourself. They're a waste of time. But that's... You might have some questions about that, but I just explained that one, right?

[08:54]

Now you're all set, right? So, go to it for the benefit of all beings. Go shop to buy presents for your little nieces and nephews or whatever, you know? Or your kids or Go shopping. Throw yourself into the marketplace for the benefit of all beings. Fine. But to go shopping without that intention, to miss the opportunity, to go shopping with that wonderful, loving spirit of generosity and willingness to enter health for the benefit of others, why miss the opportunity? That's a waste of time. You're wasting an opportunity to make shopping into an act of your bodhisattva vow. Why forget that? No need to. If you remember, you won't go. But you can still do these things if that's the spirit. We come into this world of duality, we bodhisattvas, to go into these situations to help. But to miss that chance and just to go shopping for selfish reasons or just to go to a movie, that's a waste of time.

[10:02]

That is a waste of time. And right effort is to abandon those wastes of time and use this precious opportunity right now yes Right. That's a wonderful question, Liz. Good work, Liz or Rudy. Could we stop on that one for now? You get another question. That was very good. Very good. Renunciation is not to renounce the things you'd rather not deal with. So for you, renunciation might mean that you become a fashion plate You know, that you get out there and you learn how to dress in a way that is a real statement. Is the clothes that are appropriate for you to wear.

[11:05]

To say, for example, I'm dressing in this monastic outfit right now. I'm actually putting this on and I'm wearing this. And I'm wearing this in this way and I'm taking care of my raksu in this way. This is a present. To avoid recognizing that everything you do is a presentation is not renunciation. It's denial. Renunciation is to present yourself in whatever clothes you have on and then forget about it. And then if people say, would you take off your monastic outfit? You say, no problem. Would you dress like a pauper to help people? No problem. Would you dress like a rich woman to help people? No problem. I'd love to. I want to dress in whatever way is helpful, but whatever way you do dress, you decide that in your own judgment of what's appropriate at the moment. And that is your statement. And you're making quite a statement every time you do that. And it's good to be aware that we are saying, I'm wearing these clothes.

[12:11]

I'm wearing this face, basically. So renunciation is not the sort of stop paying attention to the face you're presenting. Whether you, you know, what you've done with your face. If you don't shave your face, that's something you've decided to do. If you do shave it, that's something you're presenting yourself. Every time you're always presenting yourself. And that's what's That's where dharma is transmitted, face-to-face. Face-to-face means dharma is transmitted in the... where beings are aware that they're presenting themselves. You're there. You have a face. You have clothes. It's all part of the same thing. So, renunciation is what actually enables you to really present yourself with full presence. If you're holding on to anything... ...presentation. It's when you renounce your presentation that you can really do it. So, part of what is possible as a result of monastic training, I think, is that monks can really present themselves.

[13:19]

Because they've renounced self-concern by the practice, so they can really be a weird monk, or a happy monk, or a Liz monk. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes if it's difficult to tell the difference, then I would say to somebody that you just did. And if you have trouble telling when you're running away from something, the difference between when you're running away from something and renouncing something, I'd be happy to hear cases where you're not sure. Probably after a few interchange, a few back and forths, we can clear it up. It isn't that hard sometimes to find out once you start talking to somebody about it who is like into the same game, who's into the self-deception unveiling, the unveiling of self-deception game. That's our game, right? Okay, now you get to your next question. Is that OK?

[14:22]

Is that an answer? So you've got to work on this with people. You know, you'll wait your turn. Also, choosing the life of the monogamy. Yes. And how do you define that and learning the teachings of the monogamy. But there's also, I just wasn't aware of the dangers Can you hear her? I think you're getting a little quiet. Could you hear anything that she said? Yes. Okay. What? Speak louder, please. And you spoke about choosing the life of a monastary. And then in the next moment, like, no, it doesn't work. The monastery answers everything and no, it doesn't.

[15:27]

Well, yeah, right. The monastery answers everything and no, it doesn't. The life of a monk is to deal with the monastery in the appropriate way. So when we say the life of the monk is right effort, the life of the monk is right thinking. The life of monk means that the monk meets the authority in an upright way, neither identifying with the authority nor separated from the authority. That's the life of the monk. The life of the monk is to meet the traditional forms, to practice them, without identifying with them or separating from them. This is our challenge. How do you not identify with the tradition, not identify with the forms, and not separate from them? This is our thing. Some people identify with them, and they have those problems. Other people separate from them. So either resisting the tradition, resisting the authority.

[16:29]

The life of the monk is to work with that resistance until you drop the resistance, which means you drop yourself. And dropping the resistance doesn't mean you submit to the tradition. It doesn't mean you rebel. It means you don't need to either. You find the non-duality between yourself and the traditions. non-duality. You're not the same, you're not different. That's the life of monk. That does answer everything, when you find that non-duality. Then you should be able to walk out of this monastery and do the same thing in the marketplace, to meet each person in the marketplace with that non-dual face-to-face meeting. You are not me, I'm exactly you. This is the way we meet people all over the world, and this is the training place for that. where we're out front saying that's what we're training here for. Some of us will stay here for the rest of our lives. Others will train here and go back into the marketplace and share, hopefully, the fruit of this kind of concentrated study with the city.

[17:32]

You can develop concentration, mindfulness, and effort here. Some actual strength in your practice you can develop here that you cannot develop out in the city. But there's challenges to our compassion and patience out there that we don't have here. So most of us need to do both. Monks need to go on pilgrimage too. When a monk goes on pilgrimage, a monk leaves the monastery. When most people go on pilgrimage and come to the monastery, everybody needs to circulate. Nobody can be sure that they're not getting stuck where they are. Some people have to do one kind, some people have to do another. But everybody, I think, has to circulate. I just think everybody's, except maybe there's some other tradition, but anyway, in the Mahayana, you have to renounce, you have to renounce yourself clean. This is an opportunity. Okay, let's see, so one, two, but you were next. I wonder, from your experience, if you could give some do's and don'ts to people

[18:39]

coming from this situation. Yes. I don't know what to expect from the transition. I sort of planned several dances. I said, well, what are you going to do? She says, well, I'm going to go on lots of walks on the beach. Okay, so I was One possibility is to talk about right mindfulness today. And so this fits right into like leaving Tassajara to practice right mindfulness when you leave.

[19:46]

Say, God, you have some level of energy. In one sense, you might be tired. In another sense, you might have a lot of spiritual energy. So when you leave here, you've got a lot out there. when you see the city again, it may seem very vivid to you. Not only is it holiday season, but even if it wasn't, you might find it very vivid, very colorful to look at. So, mindfulness is to continue to continue the practice of mindfulness that you've been doing here. So just like you walk around here being aware, you know, you're aware of your body. You're aware of your body means you're aware of your bodily posture. It means also you're aware of seeing colors, hearing sounds, smelling.

[20:54]

tasting also the physical touch of the body earth and the body with the body this kind of physical mindfulness which you practice in the monastery then you think about before you leave here I have a certain commitment I'm going to make a vow now about trying to practice you could say this I'm going to make a vow to try to continue practicing go out of here and I get hit by this flood of color and sound and smell and so on. And maybe some postures where I have to lean back in cars and stuff like that. I've been leaning against anything for three months. I've been sitting up straight, not leaning back in chairs for three months. Now, I sort of have to lean back in the car seat, so I'm going to try to stay mindful. So this is the first mindfulness of body when you go out there Then you might, the next move to mindfulness, lots of feelings may come up.

[22:02]

When you start to smell these smells, you know, those colorful holiday smells, you know, you may have some positive sensations or you may have some negative sensations with some of these things too. Now all these feelings come up. So again, you start to stay mindful. Not to forget to be mindful. These feelings are happening to me now. And then various states may come over you of consciousness. Moving on to the next mindfulness foundation, so body, general qualities of consciousness. Now, if you practice the first two, the general qualities of consciousness, I don't know what they'll be like, but they'll probably stay fairly alert for a while. If you lose the first two, then you'll probably get into sort of heavy, heavy, depressed from overeating, taking in too much stimulation, stuff like that, that's likely to happen when you leave here.

[23:09]

So in that case, maybe you can still, even though you've lost mindfulness of your body and feelings, at least you might be aware, well, I mean, you know, over here or whatever. But anyway, that kind of mindfulness too. And then getting into the most subtle form of mindfulness, the mindfulness of Dharma, takes us back to our basic, which we've been talking about over and over here during the practice period. You're back in the land of being aware of your actual more detailed experience of the five aggregates. Experiencing, you know, Again, feeling, body, body sensations, feeling sensations, but also getting into, like, your conceptions, your emotions, all this stuff. You're studying the five skandhas. Your mindfulness of the five skandhas, they're out in the world. Whatever parties you have to go to, whatever parties or feasts you have to go to that you feel would be beneficial to go to, if you get invited to things and you think, now, will it actually help them if I go?

[24:14]

Well, then go. Like somebody told me recently, he was invited to a party and he thought he didn't want to go, actually. The reason why he didn't want to go is there were some people there he didn't like. Well, I said, do you think it would have benefited them if you'd gone? He said, well, yes, I think it would have benefited them. I said, well, maybe next time you can go. So if you get invited to things and you really feel would be in some ways let people down or make it difficult for them in a way that might not be beneficial, well then, and going would maybe help them. Then maybe you have to go to some of these parties where you're going to be confronted with all this color and smell and touch and taste and body and mind and it's going to come at you and you have to deal with it. And part of the reason why you might think it would be beneficial is you might think it might be beneficial for me to go there and practice. to go there and be present with these people and to bring some sense of presence and compassion. And I might not be able to do it, but it's possible I would do it, and if I could do it, that would be helpful.

[25:18]

So maybe I will go. So this is a great opportunity, because not everybody's supporting your effort in that way, but that's the opportunity. And... I just want to say again, to sort of loop the circle, because someone brought this up with me today, is that towards the beginning of the practice period, when I was pointing out that basically the Four Noble Truths come into view clearly, they become clear, they come forward and are standing there right in front of you, when the outflows back off, When the waves die back from the body and mind, then you see clearly the beach. The little Four Noble Truths just stand right up and say, hi. And so about these outflows and how to meditate these outflows in such a way that they back away.

[26:25]

So I thought it might be good to, again, bring us back to to the awareness of the floods, again, as now opportunities for that will become very available because lots of things will happen to you. Maybe some things you're not so familiar with for the last three months. So mindfulness here is a very key ingredient, mindfulness now. And this is in the realm. of flows. What happens is that some duality arises in the mind, in our mind, some duality, like the duality between self and other. And as that duality arises, the self-other, and as there's a kind of a sense that the self and other are actually like two, really two, that there's a parent .

[27:40]

As soon as that happens, some pain comes up. If we stay present with that pain, right away, there's no outflow. We're staying right with the basic pain of duality. There's no outflow at that point. There's just, in fact, there is pain with duality. As soon as the mind has any duality and it hurts, we have these great minds. And if you're right there with that root pain, the outflows have not occurred yet. However, if we can't stay present with that, and we're often not that much at the root of our dual thinking, then what happens is various feelings come up around. In addition to that basic thing, various other feelings arise around that separation.

[28:45]

Feelings of pain and pleasure. Pleasure can arise there too, right at the same time. And then, as a result of the pain or pleasure infused by this basic pain, Then what happens is there's a further difficulty in staying with what's happening. I'm going to go over that again. There is a basic pain that arises from duality. But that little kind of like vibration there that's set up from that basic duality, it starts to stir things up and create more stuff.

[29:51]

Like ideas, feeling, and emotions. Then, because we, unless, if we're not right at the core of generating this stuff, we're not right at the core of it, if we're away from the core, the generation of all this stuff, the generation of this vibration, of this movement, then we're up at the level of this stuff being generated, and things are getting kind of like, It's harder to stay with at that level. It's easier to stay with. It's hard to stay with at the root, but as the ramifications start to develop and we're away from the root and we get caught in the ramifications, then we're dealing with a little bit more of a swirl of events. It still isn't outflows.

[30:53]

It still isn't outflows. It's just natural byproduct of Now, at that level, when you start getting disoriented and lose track of this flow of events, then things get really stirred up. And then you have tremendous flood, deluge, occurrences. That's the outflow. And the flood comes from staying present with, first of all, the fundamental duality that's arising in the mind and its fundamental pain, and then the secondary phenomena. Not being able to stay present with that stuff and having any kind of bias in those fields creates then a big stir, a big, big thing.

[32:02]

And that level is dispensable, but we're often involved in it. So that's the outflows. So for example, again, basic duality. We associate ourselves with it, or associate ourselves with it. Associating or disassociating with it are equally not being present with it, precisely. Then this other stuff comes up, not because of that. Anyway, if we were present, that other stuff wouldn't bother us. It would be circling around us. But if we're not present, we get caught up in that stuff. So then we start dealing with these other feelings and emotions which arise in relationship to this basic generator. Now if we stay present with that, if we... but we stay present with that stuff, then there's no outflow. So, for example, if we stay present with the feelings that arise, pain and pleasure, if you stay present with them and don't look away from the pain or towards the pleasure, it'll stop there.

[33:16]

If you look away from the pain or towards the pleasure, then the outflows come and get you. And outflows are generated by this turning away from the pain or towards the pleasure. Then you really get disoriented. You hardly even know you're in pain and pleasure anymore. Or which it is. I mean, you know, you're really confused now. Now this is the outflow level. When you find yourself at that level, what you do then is you practice mindfulness of that. You say, I am in, I'm in a mess here. I mean, I'm overwhelmed. I mean, I'm barely, you know, I don't know what's going on. That's called recognizing that there's an outflow. Now, if you recognize that, you're on the mend, so to speak. You're starting to cure yourself. And as you find your footing, or as I said to somebody this morning, as you find your sea legs in this, as you find your sea legs, you say, okay, this is an outflow.

[34:24]

That's already your, you know, this is an outflow. And what type is it? Now, whoo. You find out what kind it is, and then you find out what kind it is, and then you can see, oh, well, that's based on this, and you can face it. This is based on turning away from the feelings. Well, let's look at the feelings. Okay, look at the feelings, and then as you go, okay, all right, all right, we've got one here. It's pain, or it's pleasure. My God, this is pleasure. Then the outflow backs away, and then you're mindful of the feelings. It's the basic feelings. And then if you do that, you drop through the floor of the feelings down to the root. Another thing that comes flying up around this stuff, of course, is first level basic duality, pain. Get out of here! Next level, various opinions and conceptions come up. One of them, so this is a view, this is an opinion, this is what's happening, this is right, okay, this is wrong, okay, fine.

[35:33]

This is happening. Now, to grab this one as right, then things really get screwed up. That's a contamination. It's not a contamination for the mind to produce ideas and positions and philosophical views. That's just part of what it'll do. Unless you're at the place where duality generates and you're seeing the non-duality. Unless you're down there at that root place where nothing's separated and there's no movement and nothing's arising. Unless you're in the realm of pure dharma, you can have ideas up here and opinions. That's not outflows. But to grab them is not an outflow either. What happens when you grab them is the outflow. Then They really start swirling around you. And then the level of the philosophical views start doing somersaults and fighting each other. Now you're in outflow land.

[36:35]

Then when you're in outflow land, you say, oh my God, here we are again. I'm in outflow land. Might it be? Which, you know... Oh, I think, oh yeah, somewhere in this mess, somebody's holding on to a philosophical view, and it's me. And this holding, this holding, what I'm doing for dear life, this is actually creating all this trouble. And then it goes flat. But then it goes flat means these views are coming up still all over the place. But anyways, the turbulence that was produced by grabbing this or turning away from that or turning towards that, that goes flat. Now you're just in basic, you know, psychic phenomenon and things underneath. So mindfulness, you see, is what will help you. What is it again? Oh, yeah. I'm paying attention to what's happening here. I'm experiencing things.

[37:36]

That's what I'm doing. I remember now. I'm alive. I'm supposed to be five skandhas here, and I'm supposed to be five skandhas. Okay. And it is... It is turbulent by skandhas. It is inundation. It is deluge by skandhas. This is mindfulness at the level of a big, heavy-duty flood. Then you find your place. The flood goes away. Then you're back to just like psychic phenomena and pain. That's mindfulness there then. that, you drop below that, in some sense, as the basis of duality, separation of subject and object and so on. And then you practice mindfulness there, and we're talking about the door to liberation. So, this is a kind of right mindfulness, okay?

[38:41]

And you can practice this now, in the next day or so, and you can practice it if you leave here and go out into the world, where if you don't watch out, you're going to get caught up and during those storms. But even in those storms, you can practice and learn what you're going to have a chance to practice studying these outflows in another way than you have been here. And verify that you can actually bring yourself back down under the storm. And then bring yourself back down under the reduced storm. So you can continue practicing and not waste time in that way. But it's hard. Probably we're going to run into some... And the Rhyme system is going to be heavy, you know, heavy weather conditions coming ahead for us. Okay? Is that alright? For all of us. Yes. I don't know the first thing about your talk on the United Nations.

[39:53]

During that talk, it seemed to me that you were questioning your own view of the world. Yes. Yes. And it expresses my particular feeling about the subject also, that we were not, nobody had left home here. As a matter of fact, I... Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I don't like you talking that way. Saying nobody. Just talk about yourself. Well, as an observation, for example, none of the teachers are home neighbors. Don't talk about other people. That's not really appropriate. No, I mean, I'm talking home leaving. There's some people here who I think have left home, literally, who don't have families. Okay? Okay. So I think it's better to talk about yourself rather than say other people have not left home. Okay, I'll talk about that. I didn't say that you weren't a homemaker. Well, I'm trying to be.

[40:53]

Yeah, but I didn't say you're failing and that you're phony. No, I didn't say that. So don't say it about other people. Well, I'm making an observation. I'm saying don't make observations like that about other people because you're talking about the faults of others. They're not faults. Well, you're calling them hypocrites. Well, they're... If you say to these people, I'm doing what they've come to do, nobody asks you to say that. So just talk about yourself. I'm not going around telling you that you're not a renunciate. No, I'm talking, for example, about you. Yeah, well, don't talk about me. Don't talk about me. Talk about yourself. I'm not talking about you. I don't say, talk about yourself. I'm talking about your lecture. Yeah, well, you're talking about your lecture. About your class, about your own questioning of your own degree of pronunciation. Yeah, well, don't talk about that. Don't talk about that. OK, I'll talk about myself. I'll talk about myself. I was talking about myself. I wasn't talking about you. I'm talking about, I'll talk about myself.

[41:55]

Yeah, that's a good idea. Okay, getting back to the whole... I don't know how... I mean, when we... When we quote Dogen, for example, on what Shaft and Mooney has done, yeah, I mean, it sounds very fundamental. I mean, Dogen was a very fundamental sort of guy, you know. This, this, this. He was repeated by Rev Anderson. But with a question, am I a renunciate, you know? And he poses... feels very neurotic to me. I mean, I'm going to spend some time in a monastery, where hopefully I'm leaving home, and I'm doing fundamental practice. And instead of renunciation, I see that it's just becoming another form of, I don't know, it's like home building more than home living. All right. So that's my question.

[42:56]

And then to talk of and renouncing baseball games, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me. How come it doesn't make any sense? Well, because when you enter a marketplace, you enter the marketplace, and the marketplace includes all this. Yes, you enter it, but you don't have to go to baseball games. Well, if you want to go to a baseball game, for example. Yes, but you don't have to go to a baseball game, even if you want to go to a baseball game. If you want to do unwholesome things, you don't have to do them. But I don't find them unwholesome. Well, are they wholesome? Yes. Well, that's not the marketplace. The marketplace means unwholesome things. What's the marketplace? The marketplace means unwholesome things. The marketplace is the world. It doesn't have to be unwholesome. The world is unwholesome if you're doing it for yourself. Anything you do for yourself is unwholesome. Yes, yes, yes, of course.

[43:58]

You know, baseball game, and that's where I do my practice. And who asked you to go? Nobody. What are you going for? For the wholesomeness of it. What's wholesome about it? For the entertainment of it. For the thrill of it. What's wholesome about the entertainment of the baseball game? Athletics, for example. What's wholesome about it? You see human endeavor. You see excellence in movement. Right. So what's wholesome about you going to see that stuff? Like going to a concert. Like going to see Yo-Yo Ma. Yeah, well, what's wholesome about that? You see genius. What's wholesome about going to see somebody else's genius? The past time. Exhausted. Exhausted. Exhausted. Exhausted is not the kill time, really. But anyway, I appreciate you coming.

[45:01]

Can I ask one more thing? About the monastery. About the monastery thing. I looked at Shakyamuni six years and Bodhidharma nine years. Precisely as, you know, Some people think it's nine years of warfare. For me, it's living mono for nine years and six years. Living what? Monastic. Mono. Solo. Except they were living alone. I'm doing it in a monastery where I'm doing it with a teacher and with a sangha. But I feel if I approach it in this manner, if I give myself six years to be living, then it's not so neurotic. I really leave home. You know, I renounce... Well, anyway, it's fine for you to really leave home. Okay? Really leave home. That's fine. As a matter of fact, that is what I'm telling you, is what Shakyamuni Buddha and Domen and pretty much all you have to do, you have to leave home.

[46:02]

Okay? But you're telling me, which I think is true, even when you come to the monastery here, you start building a home again. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's not renunciation. No, it's not. No, it's far from it. Right. So, even when you... He talked to the monks in his monastery who supposedly had left home. He said, have you really left home? That's what I'm saying to you. Have you really left home? And you're saying, well, maybe not. Maybe here, even in Tassajara, I'm still building a home. I'm still, like, building my little cabin, my little house, you know, I'm ordering myself some town trips and making my cabin full of this, like, all this... I'm building another home right here. Well, so my question is, am I renunciant? In that case, if I ordered that stuff just for me, who asked me? That's not renunciation. That's just entertaining myself. That's just buying things to distract myself. So it's not renunciation. And nobody's saying it is. Okay, fine. Well, I'd say I'm either going to renounce that stuff or I'm not.

[47:04]

If I renounce it, that means I'm not going to get that stuff anymore on town trips. I'm not going to order it. I'm going to renounce it. Not to sort of pretend, but actually renounce it. Unless somebody thinks. Those are the small things. Those are small things? So small. What about a child? If they're so small, what about a child? And then we're all set. Renunciation is not to renounce being. It is to renounce the things we're holding on to. It's to renounce our preferences for being. That's what it is. Actually renouncing things. The answer is, what do you say for yourself? Don't talk about other people. You don't know about other people. For yourself, have you renounced the world, which means have you renounced the attachment to things of the self? Then the question is, do you want to renounce? If the answer is yes, well, how can you learn to renounce?

[48:05]

Well, partly by continually asking, how can I learn to renounce? What is the good of holding on to this stuff? Do I really need to go to the baseball game? Is it really beneficial? Or am I attached to going to the baseball game? Now, if your son wants you to take him to the baseball game, it might be beneficial for him if you plan it. And then if you're attached to baseball, you have to think about, well, I'm just using him as an excuse, but that probably still should go anyway. But maybe I will try to renounce the baseball game while I'm there. And then when my son doesn't ask me, maybe I won't go to baseball games for a while until I see that going to a baseball game is really an act of benefiting others. And it might be. It's possible. When I went to Houston, I went to a Houston Astros game. But I didn't go because I wanted to see the game. I went because I wanted to go with the person who wanted to take me, who wanted to do that for me.

[49:10]

But there's other things I might do for myself. And nobody's asking me to do it. And then I think, is that really beneficial? And some things are. Like I think I should brush my teeth, even though nobody's asking me to do it anymore. Well, you probably would if I stopped, but you know. I do do things for myself that nobody asks me to do that I think people want me to do. There's some other things I do for myself which I don't think anybody wants me to do. And those are renunciation I think that's anti-truth. It's going against the practice. And those things I feel bad about. And I want to stop those things. And when I do stop them, I feel happy. And then I feel like I'm in the monastery wherever I am. It's the renunciation that makes the monastery So, if you're in the monastery, you ask, you check with yourself, are you holding on to stuff? Are you making yourself a little home here? Are you making yourself a little nest? Decorating with all your favorite stuff? If so, are you renunciate? What's the answer?

[50:12]

You answer. If the answer's no, what are you going to do about it? If the answer's yes, well, I'd like to hear about it. I'd like you to come and tell me that you're renunciate, and I can say, oh, glad to meet you, congratulations, wonderful. And then I might ask you some questions after that. And you can tell me about how this and this and this have really come out of renunciation. And I'll say, oh, fantastic. Wonderful. I didn't know how you could stuff in the tantric. It's fantastic. It just goes beyond, you know, it takes Buddha beyond Buddha totally, you know. It's fantastic. It's wonderful. Anything is possible. You know, Buddha can order, you know, stuff on tantric. But what does Buddha order on Tantra? Check it out. Check it out. Is that Buddha doing that? Is that really your true Bodhisattva spirit? Is that really helpful? Are you really trying to support these companies? Is that what you're doing? What's the story? You know. You know. Check it out.

[51:12]

That's renunciation. Always looking. Dogen's always looking. Dogen's always looking. Am I a renunciate? Are you a renunciate? Yes. Shakyamuni Buddha was always looking. Am I a renunciate? Bodhidharma. If you're just sitting there facing the wall, but holding on, saying, I've got the nicest wall here in the world. I'm going to be famous someday, boy. They're going to talk for years about this. I'm sitting here. The bleachers are packed up. Fantastic. He's been sitting there. I'm moving. He's the greatest thing. If he's sitting there, that's not renunciation. That's not wall gazing. Wall gazing is, it doesn't matter who's watching, it doesn't matter if you're famous or not, this is an act to express renunciation. And still, in my mind, I'm wondering, am I really trying to be the founder of a big school? If so, it stinks. But even checking is an act of renunciation. Checking. Am I renunciate? Am I renunciate? Am I attachmentist?

[52:14]

Am I attachmentist? That's renunciation. And we can do that anywhere. But is the place we are a place we went? As an expression of our enunciation. If not, we shouldn't be there. We shouldn't be in that place in the first place. Unless we went there. Now, if we went there, if we're there anyway, we shouldn't be there. Then we say, okay, I shouldn't be there. I'm in a place I should be. I confess I'm not in a wholesome environment because I got here out of unwholesomeness. I had an unwholesome entry. My motivation for coming here was unwholesome. I defiled the situation by my unwholesomeness. But now that I admit that, the situation is purified. Admitting our unwholesomeness purifies our unwholesomeness. So then you're in a different world. You're not in the world of playland. You're in the world of, I'm sorry that I came here for selfish reasons. And I'm embarrassed that here I am.

[53:16]

But that's what you got. You got to have done some selfish things. I'm sorry. That's the spirit of renunciation. But that doesn't mean it's all over then. Next moment, now what? Now [...] what? Can you see yourself in a few years as a total renunciate living on water and toothpaste? Yeah, I can see it. I see it clearly. But would that be renunciation, you know? No, I mean if you're going for arhati, for example. There's only one reason why I'd be an Arhat at this point, and that would be for John Benefit. I'm considering it, John. I might. I might. But the thing is, if I was an Arhat for your sake, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't.

[54:20]

So that's the story. That famous story of Dung Shan, right? Where he hears about the story of a national teacher who's teaching this guy. He said, you should hear... The monk said to him, what's the teaching of the ancient Buddha? Walls, tiles, pebbles. He said, do they expound the Dharma like an ancient Buddha? He said, they do all the time. He said, who can hear it? Who can hear it? He said, the saints can hear it. I said, well, can you hear it? He said, no, I can't. And it's lucky for you that I can't, too, because if I was a saint and I could hear this teaching, I wouldn't be able to help you. Saints can't help you like bodhisattvas can. But if you guys really want me to be in Arhat, I'll work on it. In the meantime, I'm in this bodhisattva thing, but bodhisattvas have to practice renunciation too.

[55:26]

So if you have, I don't want you to tell me that I'm not a renunciate, but you can ask me anytime you want if I'm a renunciate. Asking me is different. Are you a renunciate? That's fine. Don't tell me I'm not. Don't tell me I am. Ask me if I am. And then I'll tell you, I'm wondering. I'm wondering. I really have that question too. I'm like you. I have that question about myself. And how about you? Do you have anything you're holding on to? And do you want to let go of it? Do you actually trust that that will set you free and benefit all beings? I do. And I'm having some difficulty with that. This is my path of renunciation. And... So we'll see what I shall become. And when you see it, ask it. Okay? Thank you. And then who is next? I don't know.

[56:29]

It seems like it was over there somewhere. How monkishly? Yes. Right, that's not a monk. Yes. I guess I would say that for, you know, I think we have to look at, you know, it's kind of a balance between how much making known to other people our intention to be present and mindful, how much letting other people know about that promotes

[57:39]

promotes our mindfulness and how much of it makes an issue out of our mindfulness. If it gets into, like, you present yourself and basically what they talk to you about is, well, how come you're doing that and da-da-da-da-da-da-da, it won't necessarily promote your mindfulness and make you talk about it. You know? People don't, you know, at this point in my life, don't actually talk to me anymore about what I appear to be. I go places, they don't say that to me anymore. They don't do it. They don't get me into, you know, talking about, well, how come you're doing this? They don't do that anymore. But when I was young, they did. They did it more because they can feel, they feel something. They feel like, oh. You know, he's doing that or she's doing that to get support. So let's talk to him about it. But actually it undermines you. So in that way, young monks is out in the society too much because basically they get distracted by people's reactions to them.

[58:45]

But when you're an old monk, they don't talk to you about it anymore. They don't. They don't say, well, how come you're a monk or how come you're a priest and how come you shave your head and how can you wear those robes? They don't talk to you that anymore. They think the same things that they thought when they first saw you, but it's something else that they think that stops them from talking, that shuts them up. I don't know what it is that they think, but on some level they get a different impression and they don't talk to you. It maybe has something to do with age. But I don't know. I'm not sure about that because I've been sort of dealing with the question myself and I have the age. Well, I mean the age of the practice. The age of the practice. That's right. So one of the problems we have in America is ...women who become ordained as priests to shave their heads, it creates this big scene, you know, wherever they go, that's what people want to talk to them about is their shaved head.

[59:47]

It's not the shaved head that we're talking about here, but that's what people want to talk about. So then a lot of women grow their hair out because it becomes this big issue, you know. And that doesn't seem like, that's not the point. The point of shaving this head is not to shave the hairstyle all the time with everybody. But an old... A monk who, like a woman monk, who had her head shaved in another country for 30 years, if she came over, nobody would say to her, how come you shaved your head? They wouldn't say it to her. It's disrespectful, yeah. It's like talking about something pretty trivial. But they dare to be disrespectful to a newly ordained woman or a newly ordained man. They dare. They dare to do that. Our society dares, does not have that much respect for the average new monk. So they tease him, you know, they dare. But a 30, 40 year old, 30, 40 years of practice, they don't dare anymore.

[60:49]

They say, oops, okay, okay, this is different, I won't talk about this. Really, it's a pretty silly thing, like, well, how can you shave your head? They'll mess with you. So I would say be careful to show yourself as a monk in an environment where people will basically mess with you about it. They'll make it into idle chatter. And it won't support you. It'll make you aware, but it'll put you into a conversation which I think is basically a waste of time. I think it's better to have the thing in your heart and don't draw attention to yourself until the attention will be such that they won't talk about and distract you. Which means quite a few years of practice in, I think, in a community like this before you're going to be able to do that. But yet, you know, it's not a black and white situation. Okay? Well, it's almost time.

[61:50]

It's getting to be that time again. Right, mindfulness has been discussed somewhat on the conventional level, actually. I've been talking Okay. Now I'd like to just briefly say something about it on the ultimate level. The ultimate level of mindfulness is, you know, comes to my mind when I remember then the word mindfulness was not a big word. Thirty years ago, mindfulness was not a... There were almost no Vipassana groups in the country. And we did not use the word mindfulness much at Zen Center. We said, be mindful of this and be mindful of that. Be mindful of birth and death. Be mindful of the way you put the rakes down. Be mindful of the way you pick your Oreos. But mindfulness practice, we didn't use that expression much around Zen Center. And then as the Vipassana movement became more... more powerful and popular and influential, Zen students became aware of mindfulness practice in that arena and talked to Zen center priests and teachers about it.

[63:05]

And I remember that when it started happening to Kadagiri Roshi, at first I think he was kind of like, and then gradually he started getting kind of feisty about it and kind of like people would talk about mindfulness and he'd say, You really seem to get irritated with them when they ask them, what is mindfulness? And finally one time I heard him say, he kind of shouted, he says, mindfulness, there's no such thing as mindfulness. Mindfulness is wholeheartedness. And I think part of the reason why he got irritated is that in Zen, It's not that we're saying that Vipassana practitioners are practicing mindfulness dualistically. We're not saying that. We're just saying that sometimes when we hear people, they ask us about mindfulness practice. What we hear them saying is they're talking about mindfulness, which is like a mindfulness of me being mindful of something.

[64:09]

It's like, okay, I'm here doing the mindfulness practice. And that's not right. And the people who teach right mindfulness wouldn't say it was their mindfulness either, but they allow that, right, for a few dozen years. The point is that mindfulness is not me mindful of something. It is mindfulness of me. It is me. And mindfulness is the delusion that I can be mindfulness. Of course we are mindful in Zen, but Zen mindfulness is that it isn't that you practice mindfulness and attain wisdom. Mindfulness and wisdom are identical. It isn't that I practice mindfulness. Zen is mindfulness, but it's a mind purified by renunciation of self. It's just living wholeheartedly. To make mindfulness into this thing which you do, or which helps you become wise, is antithetical.

[65:19]

So some Zen teachers get upset when the Zen students, they wouldn't mind if in Vipassana centers they taught it that way, but when Zen students start talking that way, it's like a It's like, okay, now I can use mindfulness as an excuse to practice dualistically and say, I'm practicing. Again, we tolerate that with Zen students too for a while. Zen students say, I practice Zazen and this is my Zazen and I do Zazen. We let that go for a while, but then sometimes Zen teachers get a little upset with that too. You don't do Zazen. Zazen is not what you do. It's not another karma. Have you ever heard that before? Hmm? Not what phrase? Well, good. I'm glad you heard it. Anybody else heard it? Huh? Who said it? Huh?

[66:34]

I remember a story Blanche said about going to see Don't think that you can practice Zazen. Don't ever think that you can practice Zazen. Zazen does Zazen, yeah. The mountains are the mountains of Zazen. That's fine. And so... So mindfulness is wisdom. It's not something I do. Delusion is something I do. So then Dogen says, it's like that boy

[67:37]

who couldn't recognize his own father. That's mindfulness practice in an inappropriate way. It's like the boy who doesn't recognize his own father. I don't know the story. So you want me to tell the story? How many people know the story? Yeah. Yeah. So in The Lotus, it tells the story of this boy who went out for a walk one day and got lost. And he got lost big time. And he really got lost.

[68:44]

He actually came from a very wealthy family, but they didn't have good childcare. So he got lost. And he became destitute and emaciated and filthy. totally depressed and thought of himself as, you know, thought of himself very badly. Now, I might mention parenthetically that most of us may not think of ourselves as emaciated, destitute, you know, morally a wreck.

[69:44]

But compared to who we really are, most of us have a really low opinion of ourselves. Even our high opinions of ourselves are like the fact of having a high opinion of ourselves is unnecessary and is kind of a sign of having a low opinion of ourselves. Anyway, we're kind of like this young guy. Most of us have have kind of like lost track of something for a while now. So 50 years for a kid to be lost, but actually it's nothing. So we're like this guy. This guy in his wandering just happened to wander back into his hometown. And his hometown had to be It was like his dad's house. His dad had a really big house. It was like a whole town. It was like his dad had kings and queens on his staff.

[70:50]

This is like a big time, extremely, like inconceivably wealthy dad. So he wanders back into this palatial neighborhood. and looks, just takes, just happens to like walk by his dad's house. And when his dad and mom are sitting up on the terrace, you know, looking down over their empire, and they look down the stairs and they see their own guy, 50 years older, but they recognize him. And the dad says to mom, you see what I see? That's our baby. He sees our boy. So he calls one of his servants and sends him down to bring the boy up. The servant goes down the step. The boy sees the servant coming and says, Oh my God, that man's sending a servant down here to wipe me out. They don't want a sleazeball like me in their neighborhood. He faints out of fear of his demise.

[71:59]

The father sees what's happening and calls the servant back And then he probably gets an idea. I see. I know what to do. So he has his servant dressed up in filthy rags. And then the son woke up, revived from his swoon, from his faint. Oh, god, I'm alive. So he scurries away from the scene. And the servant goes back and dressed in filthy rags and says, excuse me, excuse me, Slavo, I have a job for you. You want a job shoveling shit? The guy says, that would be great.

[73:03]

You want to get food for it? Yeah, we'll feed you food. So the guy said, that's a job I could do. I'm weak, but I can shovel a little shit. Great. So he shoveled shit. Shoveled shit for 20 years. And after 20 years, he developed some confidence, you know? He's been eating for 20 years and, you know, become a skillful shit shoveler. Then his father actually approaches him, dressed also in rags still, comes to him and says, you know, you've been doing a good job here shoveling shit all this time, and I'd like you to be former of this crew. That's it. Okay. I can handle that. So then he becomes former of the crew. And he does that for another 30, 40 years. Then the father comes down dressed pretty much in his ordinary clothes, you know.

[74:04]

In other words, fancy goods. And he says, you know, you've done this job really well. You've been in charge of this crew. I'd like you actually to come up into that big house there and learn about how things come in and out of that house. I said, okay, I can do that. And he walks right up there with the rich man, with his father, and he learns about the house. The way things happen there. Who comes and who goes. And then does that for quite a long time. And then the mother and father, of course, are getting rather old. And the father says to the mother, you know, we are getting old. And she says, yes, I know, dear. And we won't be around for so long. That's right, dear. Maybe we should finish this transmission here. So he calls his son in and he says, you know, you've learned about the house now and you're doing a good job.

[75:10]

And the guy says, yeah, it's true. I'm doing okay. He said, you know, it's been kind of like, it's actually been kind of like you're my son. Kind of. Yeah, it is kind of that way. He said, well, you know, as a matter of fact, you are my son. And you always have been. And you always will be. And then the son said, oh, Before he couldn't believe it, but now he could believe it. But he was always that way. Right mindfulness is we're already Buddhist children. We don't have to do mindfulness. The mindfulness we do is Buddhist wisdom. Life here is Buddhist wisdom. It's not like we'll practice this and then we'll be Buddhist children. As soon as we sincerely practice this way and give up our dualistic thinking, it's Buddha's right mindfulness.

[76:16]

We are Buddha's children. That's what Buddha's saying. We just don't recognize. So, you know, that's the ultimate right mindfulness. It's not saying I'm a Buddhist child. It's not saying. It's practicing with that kind of competence in Buddhist teaching and recognizing our own parents. To separate wisdom and mindfulness is like not seeing our own father who accepts us always in our present state But we don't see that. We separate. And that separation is our pain. So in order to overcome that separation, we have to be mindful and look at that separation.

[77:18]

Yes? Yes? Yes? You just have to do something. Yes, uh-huh. Yeah, well, do you sometimes have to go to the toilet? What's the difference between wanting to go to the toilet, feeling like you need to go to the toilet, and feeling like you need to follow your breathing?

[78:29]

What's the difference? No difference? Okay. No problem. If you go to the toilet thinking that by going to the toilet you need to go to the toilet in order to be Buddha's child, then that's like thinking you have to practice mindfulness in order to be Buddha's child. But if you need to practice mindfulness and you have to go to the toilet, that's Buddha's child. You see? Do you understand? Buddha's child needs to practice mindfulness. Not to be Buddha's child. Buddha needs to practice mindfulness too. But not to be Buddha. Buddha doesn't say, okay, I'm not Buddha, I'm going to practice mindfulness and become Buddha. Buddha needs to practice mindfulness. Just like you need to go to the toilet.

[79:30]

But to go to the toilet thinking that now, okay, finally I got that out of me. Now I'm a Zen student. That's the way most people practice. But to practice mindfulness is like, I have to follow my breathing. It's like, I have to do that. This is my life. I have to live my life. Not I have to live my life so I can be a Buddhist. I have to live my life so that, you know, I'll be able to live my life. No, no. It's not like I have to take a poop to become a Zen student. No. You just take a poop and you practice mindfulness. And hopefully mindfulness while you're pooping. But when you need to, okay, that way, that's good. It's good to need to follow your breathing. It's good to need to feel your feet on the ground. Buddha needs that. Just like I was saying the other night and the other day.

[80:37]

Somebody told me She was outside, like she needed, it was cold, she kind of like almost, she needed to go in the zendo where it was warm. She needed, she could feel she needed, she wanted to go in the zendo and be warm. Very clear. You need to help people like that. Like, kind of like, I got to help them. I got to like liberate them from the feeling. You need to be concentrated. You need to take care of things. Like, like you need to take a poop. If so, great. Then you don't have to get into like, well, I do this stuff for the blah, blah, blah, blah. No, I do the practice for the practice and I need to do the practice. That's very similar to non-duality. That's very similar to giving up yourself. Very similar. So practicing mindfulness that way of I need to follow my breathing. Sometimes I need to follow my breathing. Now I need to follow my breathing.

[81:38]

Yes, good. That's good. That makes practice just like going to the toilet. That's what practice is like. It's just like going to the toilet. Brushing your teeth is a little different. That's something you have to learn how to do. It's not natural. Compassion is like You know, reaching for your pillow in the night. It's not like, oh, I got it, like, no, see, no, what can I do? I got to do this compassionate thing. It's just like, yeah, like that. It's just like, plop. It's the duality, it's the gaining idea that makes this stuff not work very well. It's bringing the gaining idea into the mindfulness practice that separates it. When you bring the gaining idea into the practice, that's when you don't recognize your father, your mother.

[82:41]

You think, I'm a poor person. I've got to gain with the Buddhas. You don't see that you're already Buddha's child. To do practice to become Buddha. We don't do that, do we? We practice as Buddha. We're children. We're Buddha's disciples. We do Buddha's practice. But we also ask, do I do Buddhist practice? Am I really doing it? I wonder. Buddha did that too. Are you guys upset now? Huh? Are you upset? Huh? No? It would only help me if that's what you were.

[83:43]

Are you upset? I don't care. Are you okay? You alright? Huh? Do you want to go to the toilet? Yes! our intentions.

[84:02]

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