Right speech. That's much easier. Right speech, when you actually get it, it's easy. And it is actually just saying what you're about. That's what right speech is, definitely. And it's very much easier than to try to think about what you're going to say beforehand. Definitely. Right. Right, and you don't think about it. It's just where you're at. And it's very nice, very easy, very alive, and wonderful. And you don't think about whether they like it or not. Right, but there is, in right speech, there is a, if it's true, but harmful, don't say it. Yeah. And what Jackie's saying, sometimes, you know, Robert De Niro can say things that are true, can harm the other guy, but he just says.

[01:04]

In our right speech, we have to, we don't say it if it's harmful. What I'm saying is that where you're at... okay, is not harmful. Just telling people where we're at is not harmful. That doesn't harm people. Telling people where you're at, if you're telling people where you're at in order to harm them, that's not where you're at. You're at to hit them. And that's hard. That's harder than just telling them where you're at. It's really harder. But we're so used to doing it that way, we think that's easy, because that's our habit. Did the Jigarashi teacher abuse him verbally?

[02:14]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't think benefiting somebody is abuse. Yeah, right. Now, if somebody does something to me and I'm benefited by it, even if they see it as abuse, they intend to abuse me, they want to abuse me, and they're unsuccessful at abusing me because I benefit by it, then they've got the problem of wanting to abuse me. Okay? No? You didn't get that? That's their problem, that they wanted to abuse me.

[03:23]

The fact that I wasn't abused, that's good for me. Right? I wasn't abused by it. They were unsuccessful in abusing me. But the Zen stories, and I don't know about the one with Suzuki Roshi, but the Zen stories, the question is, was the teacher trying to abuse the student, or was the teacher trying to help the student, and it looked like abuse, and the student wasn't abused? Is that the story? So again, just look inside your own heart. Are you trying to abuse the person or not? At the best of your ability, can you tell are you trying to abuse them or not? Are you trying to hurt them? Are you trying to damage them? If you are, then damaging them is not telling them and showing them what you are. Telling them that you want to damage them is more to the point.

[04:25]

Say, I've got this thing, I want to damage you. I feel this impulse in here to damage you. Right. Which example earlier? You said something about this person that you were with. What can you say about that? She said, I was hearing you, you said, it could actually be. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I think I was a little bit... I don't think I was... I didn't intend to hurt her, but I think I wasn't being super respectful.

[05:46]

If I looked at myself at that time. I don't think I thought to myself, now that was a cool statement. I think I must have felt like, well, I hope that was all right. Because I knew I was taking a risk talking that way. But sometimes, even if I was trying to be very careful with somebody, I still might feel hurt by what I said. Yeah. Yeah. So I agree with you, but that example, actually, I wasn't being that careful. But I could, in some cases, I could be very careful and still hurt the person. But when I find out that I hurt them, oftentimes I find out that there was some subtle little thing there that I was unaware of, that I was conveying. Like I sometimes use the example, when my wife first came to Green Gulch, one of the women there said, Oh, you dress so nicely, you make us all feel ugly.

[07:05]

Does that make sense to you? That my wife would be hurt by that? But the person probably wasn't giving her a compliment. The real issue is saying, you know, you're hurting us by the way we dress, etc. You better not dress better than us because we're going to get hurt by you. But the person probably didn't know that they were saying that to her. And I rather said to the person, you know, that really hurt me, so that person really didn't find out. But sometimes it's not entirely about the other person's thing. There's a little bit there. There's a little bit there for you to learn. But still, if in your heart you think you are trying to hurt, then you know that, and you have to watch out for that. that just to really tell somebody where you're at, and that's really all you're up to, that if you're really just doing that, you have to go over for trying to do anything with that.

[08:22]

You're not doing it to manipulate. You're just completely telling them where you're at. And they may not understand that I kind of, I really trust that, that really saying where we're at kind of thing. And I think you can find a way to do that, that people may not like it, but it doesn't hurt them. But the most incredible thing is you're showing them the truth, and then eventually they're going to learn from it. That's going to be helpful to them. If somebody's Just putting it out there without even trying to get an effect of any kind.

[09:24]

And I wouldn't call that, and that's not idle chatter. That's not harsh speech. Now, could it sound harsh? I suppose. So some of those Zen stories, maybe it sounded harsh to another observer. To the monk who hears it, in some of those cases, they said that they were deaf for days in one case. But I think that there was this ends justifying the means kind of thing. And does the teacher yelling at the monk justify, is it justified by the monk becoming enlightened? Yes. Other people say, I wish that could have happened without the yelling. But those are rare stories. Usually the teacher says something sweet and the monk wakes up.

[10:33]

So anyway, in my case, I think I'm, after some years, I'm able more to just say what I have to say. But usually when I make mistakes, I notice that I wasn't being completely attentive. That I wasn't really completely there when I spoke. But I'm less restrained than I used to be. but still somewhat present in my unrestrained way. Someone told me that she was talking with someone, and something bothered her in the conversation, and she just let it go. And it seemed like it was okay. And then a couple days later she got very depressed and she realized, she thought that it was because of what she hadn't said in that previous conversation.

[11:58]

So is there anything you're not selling in this conversation that you're going to be depressed about? Yes? I have a question. What do you call information that makes me know the world? Like somebody says to her, which way is Mom and Donna? And you say, it took a right. Excuse me, but can I use that example for now? Whereas that is that right speech or wrong speech. It's not lying. It's not hard speech. Is it idle chatter? Not necessarily. Is it slander? No. So I think that's pretty much right speech. Some of the Russian directors, I mean, give it to them.

[13:16]

Huh? Maybe. Let's assume that they're going to, you know. that the roads pass about all right. So that's an example of right speech, the ordinary kind of passing of information truthfully, straight, clearly. That's right speech. If somebody says to you, you know, how are you feeling? And you say, okay, is that right speech? Obviously, we're not lying. It isn't harsh. You're not slandering anybody. It's not gossip. The question is, let's say, if you weren't lying, then I think maybe it's not idle chatter. In other words, if you were loud, kind of feeling okay. But just say, okay, I guess that's, I guess I was going to ask you, that's not idle chatter.

[14:19]

Talk is kind of like, it's okay. Might be right speech. But there are some times when somebody asks you what's going on, and something's going on, and you don't tell them. You tell them the problem, and you kind of feel like the truth is to tell them the problem, and you don't tell them the problem. They say, how are you, and really something is going on, and you don't tell them. You say, Sometimes I ask people how they are, and they say, okay. And I say, hmm? They give me a little hint like that. Well, what do you mean, okay? It doesn't sound like it's okay. So it wasn't really a lie, but they gave that little hint, you know, that little nuance, which means it's not okay, not okay.

[15:29]

So then I can say, do I want to get into this? Not OK, but do you want to get into this? OK. Well, that's feeling really terrible. So I'm feeling this thing about to ask you, are you not saying something now? Yes. You're concerned. You'd like to finish already. Let's go. Yes. Thank you.

[16:36]

Yeah. Sometimes people ask me how I am, and I think, well, I'm really in pain. They're going to feel like they have to ask me all about it, and I don't want to spend a lot of time telling them the details of how bad I'm feeling. So should I mention it? So I could mention it and say, if they ask me, I say, you know, I just told you I felt terrible, and I see now you want to find out more about it.

[18:06]

But not only do I feel terrible, but I don't want to tell you about it. And then they might say, well, now I feel terrible. But, and you might think, now can I tell this person how I'm really feeling? Will they be able to handle it? So you might ask them beforehand, Do you really want to know?" And they might say, no, or they might say, yes, okay. Now, if I tell you, can I just let it go into eternity? Can I tell you how I feel, and can I just let it go at that? Because I'd like to tell you, but I don't want to spend the rest of the day here telling you about it. Try that a few times. As long as not to my wife? Yeah, I think we can just have an exception for the wife.

[19:11]

Don't do it. So with the wife, you say, I'll tell you, but I'll also spend the rest of the night talking to you about it, right? I'm willing to tell Bruce Lee. But I'm just saying, you might say to the person, I'll tell you about it, but I also have an appointment and I want to go to the appointment, but I will tell you if you want to hear the brief version of it. And they might say, okay, and you tell them. How does that seem? But with my wife, I would set no time limit on it. I mean, that would be my intention, to let the schedule be destroyed by the wife or the husband, if they want to talk about it all night. I generally find that too.

[20:23]

It's one of those generalities that I generally find to be generally true. We'll go on and up with it hard and fast, but it's generally true. And I find it generally good for the husbands to get over it. And I generally find that they can't. But if they did, it would really be wonderful. And there would be a lot of happy wives around if they got over it. A lot of happy husbands too. Sore and raw from social, from emotional life, but alive. Was there a hand over there? Yes. Pardon?

[21:27]

Inferiorist America. Thank you. In case you didn't notice. Yes? Pardon? Say that louder, please. The last part. They should be given a chance. Men and women should be given a chance You think they should get a chance? Some of them will?

[22:34]

Yeah, some will. So you think they should be given a chance? Does everyone agree with that, that they should be given a chance? Yeah, I think I... We should not assume that they do not want to talk about it. We should check, do you want to talk about that? Do you want to talk? And if they say no, you can say, really? Are you sure? You're going to pass up on this chance? Do you realize what you might be missing out on? Well, no, what? Well, how about life? She thinks I answered her question. Yeah, now we'll see if I really did. ... You're missing something, you say?

[23:52]

Yeah. [...] Well, I think... The one thing that comes to mind is you say, you say, do you want to hear about how I'm feeling? And let's sort of say yes. Say, I'm feeling like something's missing here in this conversation. Like, you know, we're not, I don't feel like I'm connecting with you. I don't feel, I'm feeling not close to you and I want to feel close to you. I want to connect with you. What do you think of that? And the person might say, well, I'd like to connect with you too.

[24:55]

Say, well, could you tell me something about that again? Would you more deeply tell me what that's about? And then they might try again. You might say, is that really the truth? I mean, are you telling me the whole story now? Is there anything you're holding back? I feel here something not being held back. Is that, do you feel that? And then I say, yeah. So what is it? He said, I don't know, you know, but you're getting closer, you know, little by little. And then it comes out. And then he said, oh, there it is. You did it, you know. Like, in my case, with my wife, you know, I made this schedule this year, which lots and lots of traveling, you know. And, uh, So she finally, the other day, she kind of like, she kind of said, you know, it's too much, way too much.

[26:03]

And then she said, you know, she just feel like we haven't really connected because I've been away so much. And I said, yeah, I feel that too, you know. But it really felt good that we had that simple little exchange, you know. So we just have to make an effort to, like I have to schedule things with her first and then make my schedule rather than figure out how to be with her because if she looks at my schedule, it looks okay on paper, but then when she tries to get into it, it doesn't work, because she's got her life, too. So first we have to do it the other way around and make a schedule with her, and then really the world, because the rest of the world, it's easier for them to fit into my schedule than for my wife to fit into theirs.

[27:08]

So that's, but that was good, you know, but it was kind of hard to get to that place of us telling us what we were missing, you know, So Brett is concerned. We've got a few more polls to deal with, but I'd like to also do a kind of like a big thing before we take the next step. And the big thing is related to Lucetta's comment, and that is, how do we go from the world of self, independent self, where self and other are We feel like they're really apart, and we feel anxiety around that. And when we do calm that anxiety, which creates more problems, how do we go from that world to the world where self and other are interdependent, and where we do everything together, and we're not scared of what the person is going to do to us anymore?

[28:19]

Transition. Seemed like a big one. And the basic thing is that sitting in the world of self and other pain, the basic step which we haven't gotten to, which we're a few steps away from, is I would say practicing the meditation of right effort. And right effort is to sit in this world and face the other, which means face people, which means face all the things that are going on in your mind without grasping anything. That's hard, yeah. Because if you don't grasp anything,

[29:23]

or seek anything in this world of self and other anxiety land, you may feel frightened, like, what's going to happen? Again, it's really like giving up control, giving up trying to control. But in this state of practicing non-attachment and non-seeking, in this state, the drama of self and other will continue to go on But in this state, you start to see it really clearly. And you start to see that where there's connection, there's not connection. And where there's separation, there's not separation. That there really is no connection and separation. They're just one mind. That revelation comes to you when you practice right effort in the midst of all these other practices, in the midst of right speech, right action, right livelihood, right view.

[30:30]

So right view, you start to pay attention to what's going on. Right effort, which is possible when you practice the previous five, right effort is this state of non-attachment and non-seeking in which revelation of no self can appear in which revelation of selflessness and selflessness means self and other are not separate so that's that's the leap and that's the movement right view, the supramundane right view. From watching how the self and other interact, watching how the self does karma, to seeing that the self can't do anything other than the other.

[31:38]

It's totally inseparable. You see, you understand no self. which understanding no self, then there's no craving, and then there's a cessation of suffering. Okay? So the next link is right action. And right action traditionally relates to things you do with your body. So put negatively, right action is... What about wrong action? Wrong action is killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct. Right action is non-killing, being gentle and protective of all life, not stealing, and being generous, and not misusing sexuality is to use sexuality in a beneficial way.

[32:50]

Right action is to use sexuality in a beneficial way. All of us have sexuality. We are, unless we're mutants, but the people who gave us birth were sexual beings. We've inherited their sexual nature, so we are sexual. So everything we do Sexuality runs through us. But the question is, how can that be beneficial? How can that sexual energy be beneficial? Any questions? No?

[33:58]

Well, let's move on to . In the early Buddhist tradition, the teaching for monks was, the right livelihood for monks was begging. They didn't have businesses. They didn't do farming. And they weren't bank robbers. They just begged. But even while begging, they had to beg in the proper way. So they couldn't be honest about their begging. And in some of the scriptures, the things they say for the monks not to do, you can tell the monks must have done some of these things, otherwise they wouldn't be saying them. So some monks would go begging, you know, and they'd go with their bear, and then they would get the donation, and then they would say, and you shouldn't say to the person, oh, that was very generous of you.

[35:13]

You are indeed the prince of donors. I'll tell the neighbors how much you gave me. The person goes, just a minute, I think I can find some more for you. That's coercion. Another one, another technique is the monk comes and says, and they give the monk something, and the monk says, oh, I have this generous donation. You should give it to someone else. I'm not good enough to receive this gift from you. And then the people say, wow, this guy's really humble. Let's give him some more. Okay? That's another trick. Do you understand? Another one is, another deal is the monk comes and looks extremely severe, you know, like, looks, you know, really tense and super strict. So it's called the grimace technique.

[36:15]

So you present this really severe face and then people go, wow, this must be a good monk. Let's give this monk a lot. Another one is the monk goes by the people's house, you know, and when the donors are watching the monk, the monk goes and gives lots of things to the children of the family. you know gives them little treats and toys and stuff and they think oh this is really a nice monk so let's give him a lot and so on so apparently some of the monks did this kind of stuff in order to increase the donations that they would get they're not supposed to do that any of that stuff like this you don't do anything to get them to give you more or less So that's what monks are supposed to do. Lay people, who are allowed to do work to get their livelihood, they're basically not supposed to do anything harmful.

[37:17]

So they're not supposed to... So this wouldn't actually preclude them being in an army as long as they didn't make money from being in the army. But to get money to support yourself and your family by being in the army, to do it for that is not proper livelihood for a Buddhist. Selling weapons. You shouldn't make money off the lives of animals or humans. In other words, prostitution or running a whorehouse. You shouldn't make money from that. Of course, slavery is not appropriate. Selling poisons. toxins or, you know, intoxicants. Shouldn't make money from selling these things. And anything else that's harmful to human livelihood.

[38:21]

So, I know many Buddhists, and non-Buddhists too, who are agonizing over whether their work, whether they're making their living from doing something that's directly or indirectly harmful This is a difficult area for a lot of us because, you know, in some sense everybody's implicated in everything, right? Because everything's so connected. So it's a real, this is a real problem for almost all of us. So probably there's some questions about that, huh? On the other hand, if you don't have much question, we're going to finish pretty soon and Breck's going to be happy. Yeah, but how about starting with the first level?

[40:11]

Let's just start with that one. Is anybody... Is that a problem for anybody? Selling weapons, selling alcohol, selling other kinds of drugs, selling poisons, selling people or animals. So, is that clear? Yes? Yes. Yes. Well, again, it's not so much considering other people's. It's not looking at other people's. The question is, could you have a winery, or could I have a winery and feel like that's the right livelihood? Maybe he can. I don't know how he does it, but... The question is, do you have a winery?

[41:15]

Are you selling alcohol? And do you feel like it's right livelihood? Do you feel like you're... Not is he causing harm. Am I causing harm? This is a personal thing. It's not about other people. So... Is anybody doing anything that they feel... is directly harmful. Some people are, I guess. Some people feel like that. So if there's anybody who feels like their livelihood is harmful, let's hear about it. Sometimes I kill roots. It's not killing people, but that comes up as a part of my job. To remove trees from people's property. Do you feel that's harmful to the trees?

[42:17]

I also plant trees, but I probably certainly remove more trees than I plant. If you planted more trees, would that... I'd feel better about it. You'd feel better? So you're removing the trees? It might expand my sense of compassion with all beings. Don't limit that just to the ones with eyes and faces. And I generally don't. go overboard to expand that consciousness. It's congenial where it is. You don't expand with what consciousness? My sense of consciousness about compassionate beings.

[43:21]

So I'm inclined to think that... If I don't think too much about the sacredness of a plant, then I can keep on taking out the trees. But if you think a lot about the sacredness of the trees, then you have more trouble cutting the trees down. Well, thank you for I'm saying that. We grow vegetables, and the whole community goes down once a week and weeds. So we weed out the weeds from the vegetables. Come to think of it, I'm going down to Green Gorge in the hearing to teach people to count trees. I forgot about that part. We uproot and weed Buddhists.

[44:23]

at Green Gorge, uproot the weeds so that the vegetables can grow. And the Buddha, and not only do we uproot the weeds, but in the process of digging the trenches and stuff, Some other, like the ground, their nests or something get disturbed. And so it's unintentionally, but we know that if we plant, if we dig up those fields, we know some animals will probably get killed, and we do it anyway. So even people who are growing vegetables know that they might they might be unintentionally but unintentionally but unavoidably killing some animals they don't want to kill the animals so that's like the example if we don't want to do it and we wish we we wish that we could dig the killing any animals but we know that we might and even though we know that we might some people you know dig up the fields at green gulch knowing that they might kill an animal they go ahead and do it anyway even though they wish that they

[45:34]

They hope that they won't. They know that they might. Humans, we're more like, well, I hope that we won't and I'm not going to take a chance that we might. But with animals in the ground, we're going ahead and doing that in order to grow vegetables. So what about that? It's kind of a problem, isn't it? How can we go on? How can we go on farming at a Buddhist temple knowing that we might kill animals in the process of growing vegetables and flowers? There's no avoiding what?

[46:50]

There's no avoiding death. Is there any avoiding killing? There's no avoiding what? There's no avoiding death. Is there any avoiding killing? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you think that wrong killing is unnecessary killing?

[47:55]

Unnecessary intention. And what's bad intention? To cause harm. To want to kill. I see. I see. Even if people what?

[49:13]

Yeah. I don't know. [...] Right, like if you waste bad candy. So for an affluent society like Imperial America, I think livelihood is where it comes down to livelihood.

[50:44]

Our most difficult problems are around livelihood because we don't have to kill anybody to get food. You know? Our armies are doing that for us out, you know, away. So it's in our livelihood that we start to touch on the places where there's exploitation down the line. So, you know, you're drawing lines. We're drawing lines like, okay, some people say, I don't eat meat. Or some people say, I eat fish, but I don't eat veal because they torture the little male bulls.

[51:44]

Or some other people say, unnecessary killing. Or some other people say, wasting. Don't kill a whole bunch of animals and not use them. So we're all drawing these lines. So what's the crux of that? of right livelihood. Where is the edge of it to practice for you? Where are you working with it? Like with right speech, every time you speak you have an opportunity to practice right speech. Right? Every time you speak you can practice right speech. But right livelihood How do you practice with that? Do you just go to work, you know, start at some time and end at some time? Does the issue of right livelihood come up? How does it come up? What is it?

[52:47]

Are you doing anything that's harmful? And is there some other way you can do it that would be less harmful? Yes. Yes. So your job's harmful to you. So it sounds like in your case it's not so much the livelihood that's

[53:59]

The way you work is harmful. It sounds like what you're doing doesn't harm others. It sounds like the way you do it harms you. Maybe this is a new aspect of the eight-fold path called right employment or right job assignment. what would be right for you writing but if you did writing nobody would give you any money

[55:32]

so you can be hard on your family if you mostly write but writing would be would be more spiritually rewarding and nourishing for you Well, I thank both of you for having your jobs up for consideration. I feel like in these two cases, the issue of right line is right up there.

[56:48]

They're really looking at it. Are you looking at it? Sounds like... Not at the whole package, but at... This particular thing. And you're not sure exactly how much you should look at it because you might have a big problem. So you're trying to see how much you're going to be aware of these trees. Here's two people that are kind of like up there working with it, and I guess I would ask others, do you have some edge on yours? Yes? Mm hmm.

[58:22]

Mm hmm. Yeah, so there's a question. Here's the program, and whether I'm there or not, the program will go on. If I don't implement the policies, they will... If I get fired, someone else will be hired and will implement the policies, so the policies will be happening. Should I place myself... in that situation where I feel like I'm sympathetic to the problems that people are experiencing here, so I can get as they get mistreated. It would be better to have someone else there who would implement the policies without compassion. Yeah. Well, there it is. That's another, right on the edge there. Yeah. I think it does help people a little when they come for the service and it's inadequate or whatever or maybe not really and they feel disappointed.

[59:41]

I think it does help if the person there says, yeah, I know, I agree. You know, like, You know what I mean? You come to the window there, you know, and they say, well, you have to pay this fine and you have to pay this fine on top of that fine on top of that fine. And it seems kind of unfair. And the person says, yeah. Then, you know, not only is this harsh and punitive, but the person gives you no sympathy and makes you feel like you're crazy or that they're crazy or that you're both crazy or anyway, they're not going to deal with your suffering. Maybe that's a good place to be. Maybe we should go into these situations where people are being not handled very well and be there with them and say, yeah, this is no good. I agree with you. I don't know anything to do about it, but I'm really sorry. And maybe have people say, well, why do you work here then?

[60:43]

Say, well, so that I can agree with you that this is not good. and fill your suffering with this. So you have some company in your suffering right as it's happening. Maybe that's good. But maybe not say it's good, maybe not say it's bad, maybe just be there and be open to the situation. Because actually we do live in a world where where there's problems. So wherever we are, we're connected to the problems. And we can't eliminate them all, so it doesn't matter so much where we are, in a way. What matters is that we're sympathetic to the suffering of the person we're talking to. Yes?

[61:53]

You still want to help. Yeah. I'm not practicing that. I'm practicing a model that I believe in. I don't think that's how it works. What I feel is that's what people really want to do, and that's what they deserve. In my opinion, I feel the same way about how I feel. Pardon? Right, so there you are, not sure that you're helping, feeling frustrated.

[63:07]

So in that situation, how could you be helpful? You're not sure you're helpful, you're feeling frustrated, how could you be helpful? And what would be helpful about that? Yes, and what's helpful about that? Maybe they do feel what? Maybe they feel helped. By what? by you being there? Maybe they feel helped? So maybe they're helped after all, even though it's not helpful? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe they're not being helped, but then maybe since you're there with them when they're not being helped, maybe they're being helped by you being there when you're not being helped.

[64:15]

Why do people come to hospitals usually? Because it's a mental problem, right? So, excuse me for saying this, but we have problems. We have problems. We come into this world and then we have a problem from the beginning to the end. And at the end we have this thing called death. And nobody can help with that problem of death in terms of getting rid of it. There's no treatment that cures it. So what can you do to help somebody who's dying? You can be there with them. Does that help? It seems to help that somebody's there with them while they're having a problem they can't get help with. I mean, the problem doesn't get helped, but they get helped being with the problem. So now they're in a hospital. They're not dead yet, but they're not getting the kind of help that maybe you'd like to see them get with the problem, with the sickness. But you can be there with them while they're not getting the help they'd like to get.

[65:22]

so they do get help. Now, if you could do something so that they got the kind of help that you think they should get, well fine, do it. But even if you do, still, if you're not there with them, then they're not getting that kind of help. Which I think is the most important kind. Because even if they come in with a sickness and get it cured, unless they get that kind of help that you're talking about, They're still anxious. They're still not practicing. I shouldn't say they aren't, but unless somebody shows them, has shown them, they're still there. And the same in the welfare situation. They may not get the kind of help you'd like to see them get, but maybe they can get something more important than what they came for. Namely, somebody showing them how to be where they are. even though it's a really painful situation. And so maybe you with the trees, and maybe you with Fred.

[66:24]

Somehow to be with Fred while he hasn't found his work yet, while he has to suffer some number of more years until he can do more writing. So he's not doing the work he'd like to do. There is work he'd like to do. He's not able to do it. This is not happening. But you can be with him in this painful situation. And that can be your spiritual practice of attending to this man who isn't in the... It's kind of surprising that this is in some ways the most difficult one. Yes, Beth? . And for a long time then, I really thought I was going to do it.

[68:21]

But I did want to do it. And now I want to do it. And now I want to do it. And now I want to do it. And I did a lot of phone searching now, and I realized that what I was doing, if I was thinking about a value system, and I did something that wanted to do that shit, I came down and ended up doing it. I was like, heck, did we do it together? Before I had fucking to do it. Before I thought about it, I was like, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. When the words are loud, children can't afford it. It's not really good for me. I didn't get it, it's just, I don't know. I don't know. And, um, that's how it is for me.

[69:27]

This way is the way it's been my life. Yes. Can you hear him okay? Can you speak up a little bit, please? I was actually briefly involved with this, without actually reflecting on it for a long time.

[70:47]

So I, myself, talked a lot about it for a long time. One useful thing about this, is that fear of sense is created, of the state of being without fear of what? about how to live life, how to be in the city, how to make decisions in the city. I was in the face of the thought that there was something that I thought I could always do, or something that could pop up in my head. So like I said, I have to do something, I'm going to do this, but it started out when I was the portrait style from certain types of black people, it seems to be that our services are strapped on to the white people, and that the people who we have are often those who share the same white ability as we have.

[71:56]

People who are trying to get some more white life, all the white people believe that white people can't live without, they want to have an equal connection, So, Well, we have cases like that. I mean, so Linda's in the situation which she feels is, in some sense, she's in a situation where things are not quite the way they should be, but she's there.

[73:04]

Beth is in the hospital. Gwen is in the hospital. You're in this situation, so there is an interface, but there could be more. So what about me? I don't have much interface with people who, you know, are into war, who really think it's a good idea to be bombing. I'm sort of out of touch with those people, so I'm kind of in my livelihood that I'm not... I'm not with the people who think taking drugs is a good idea and so on and so forth. So I question whether I'm in the right place. Should I be in the street more?

[74:10]

Yes. Oh, good. I'm saying, it's hard for me to know, on the subject of life, it's hard for me to know the impact of things like this. All the things I've done, hence the people I thought those years out, as I write on some of that, we call it a fallout. But for 50% of the years after college, what I've done, maybe it makes you I don't know. That's it. Why is it that when I teach, you have to don't stress about it?

[75:21]

It doesn't work on me. I feel like I'm having a hard time. I feel like I have to do the other thing. A bunch of people talk to each other and tell me to get out. And I feel like it's one of these that sort of joins with people's self-confidence. And I believe sometimes I need to do that. I need to do that with people. I think it's about the people who talk to each other. But I don't know. I don't know. And I've got to touch it in the throat, because if you do it without the teeth, then you're dead. And that, from the outside, doesn't seem like it's not quite right. It's not quite right. That's a big problem. That's a big problem. That's a big problem. Can you say something, Leslie? No? Yes. You don't know anybody that's happy with their work?

[76:53]

Wow. they probably don't feel bad because it's essential education. So, my expertise is much more valuable than some of the other instructors. It invites me to go to work and help the self-taught kids, and try to see with them the aspects of self-care. I also take college into their offices to help with the patients and the problems. I'm overwhelmed and depressed. I don't know if she could really come and talk to me in the future. Let me go back to the future.

[77:54]

That's how it is. It's [...] how it is. Another piece of the world of suffering. Yeah, and right livelihood in this terrible situation of self-indulgence, of me and the institution, me and the policies. And, excuse me for saying so, but I, please excuse me for saying this, because it sounds maybe, I don't know, harsh, but I guess I think as we, wherever we work,

[79:02]

whether we work in Zen Center, or a hospital, or a software firm, or a lumber company, or a restaurant, or a high school, I think wherever we work, as long as there's self and other,

[79:23]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_80.53