in order to realize selflessness, seems to me that it's necessary to face how thoroughly we believe in the self. In order to be selfless, I think we need to face, in a state of stillness and joy of shamatha, we need to face how selfish we are. In order to be selfless and live selflessly, we need to calmly, deeply calmly face how selfish we are.

[01:18]

To face how selfish we are in a state of upset, I don't think, you know, it's of some use, but I don't think it is nearly as appropriate or helpful as to become selfish we are. I think we think maybe that, well, since we should be ashamed that we're selfish, so we should be really upset about it. We should scream and holler about how selfish we are. If not that, certainly about how selfish other people are. But actually, I'm proposing the opposite. That we need to do the work of looking at the at our belief that this person, that our personhood, that our psychophysical personhood is an inherently existing self.

[02:23]

We look at, we face it, we think that. We don't have to face that that's so, because it's not. We are not an inherently existing person. But we think we are. And we need to, if we face that thoroughly, we will be able to forget all about it. But it's hard to face steadily our own selfishness. It's even hard to look at other people's selfishness. We tend sometimes to wince when we see someone be really selfish. But to see ourself be selfish quite difficult to watch calmly. It's easy to ignore it calmly.

[03:25]

It's easy to be calm and not notice it. But to get nice and close to it and see it in all its petty, nasty tightness and all the nasty little activities that arise from that view, it's not easy to look at But somebody has to. And the one that has to just turns out to be ourself. Or this person has to look at his or her own selfishness and pettiness. But in a state of calm. Then the observation has a chance to be an opportunity for seeing the relinquishment of this view that we inherently exist.

[04:33]

In other words, to realize the emptiness of this person. And then, we can move on and do the same thing with even another layer of our belief in inherent existence, which we apply to things. But that's more subtle. So, once we realize the selflessness of the person, we can move on to study the selflessness of all things. But it's, you know, I think it's good to start with the person, with the belief that the person inherits. And most, a lot of people I know in the Zen Center, they know that they do not have an inherent, they know that they do not have an inherently existing self. They know that. They know that.

[05:36]

They've heard about it. It makes sense to them. They know it. They're here. But simultaneously, they think they do have an inherently existing self. But the funny thing is that they are aware of how they don't think they do. That's quite, they know about that. You ask them, they immediately say, yeah, I don't. I don't think I have an inherently existing self. I know that's not true. That's what I think. But the fact that they think that they do have an inherently existing self, this is not necessarily readily available to everybody at Zen Center. So, again, continuing to develop this mind like a wall that doesn't get involved in all the objects of our experience, like our experiences of body and mind and our experience of self. It's not that there's no... It's just that there isn't really an inherently existing one.

[06:44]

There is a There is a kind of a person or a self. It's just not something by itself. It's something that's built up of various elements, which we can look at. But before we look at what it's built, I think it's good to get the strange delusion out in front. One of the things that Jesus said, which maybe I don't actually remember exactly correctly, but maybe some of you do, something like, that which is in the back will destroy you, but if you bring it out the front, it will liberate you. Is that how it goes? If you do not bring forth what is within you, it will destroy you. Well, it's not exactly that the thing will destroy you, but the not bringing it forth will destroy you.

[07:46]

If you bring it forth, the bringing it forth will save you. So within us, deep down, in the safest place that it could possibly be, just about the safest and most remote place, is this deep that we inherently exist. So we have to bring that out. And some people actually don't think they've got it. So it may take a while to surface it. And we can't, like, create too much hubbub to surface it. Otherwise, when it comes out, no one will notice it. They'll just be in a mess. So in one sense, one approach is just continue to practice shamatha. And... You know, when you feel success in Samatha, you might kind of like just be open to seeing this, yes?

[08:53]

Could I finish my sentence? You might just be open to seeing this belief in self. Yes? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. This is one of the big... This is one of the tests, one of the early big tests of your shamanic practice is...

[09:58]

is to feel safe enough and comfortable enough that you would allow this, within a Buddhist community anyway, this blatant delusion to come forth, this obnoxious view, this stupid idea, that you feel safe enough to let it come forth as something that's in you. that you feel good enough about yourself as a living creature, you're taking good enough care of yourself, you become enough good enough that you're feeling fairly calm and fairly safe, fairly relaxed. If you're not what? You probably are, though.

[11:08]

That's the thing which we'd like to bring out, is this staking on this independent self, our worth. Well, I take it back. Yeah, as a living creature, right. Well, the living creature is, you feel good enough about this living creature, about this life, but not the independence, the independent living creature. You feel good enough about being alive. Namely, you feel good enough about experiencing, there's a feeling of, some good feeling about experiencing sounds and smells and tastes and tangibles and thoughts and other cognitions without getting involved in them. So you're kind of basically calm at ease and joyful in the midst of this life experience. So you're not stressed that you kind of like, you don't need to see one tiny little thing that might be the slightest bit of noxious deceit about yourself. Okay?

[12:13]

You could now take a little criticism. You know, because basically, if you get the criticism, you might be able to, what? Somebody, now you're in the state, a little bit of, you got some... tranquility, and now some criticisms come, and what might you have a chance of, how might you have a chance of responding to that criticism? Without defensiveness. Without defensiveness or without extensive, yes, I am really terrible, this is blah, blah, blah. In other words, you might have a chance to respond without getting involved in it. There is a response that's not involved. There is a response that's not involved? Yeah, that's shamatha. Shaman is responding to phenomena in an uninvolved way. Not getting upset about what's going on in your life. It's like, is it all right not to be upset about my life?

[13:15]

Would it be okay to calm down? Well, yeah, that's the point. It is okay to have a mind like a wall. It's like you're not being unpatriotic or something to be calm. So now you're somewhat calm. You've learned this mind like a wall. So people come up to you and say, Brian, you're cute. Brian, you're stupid. And you don't activate the mind. When you hear stupid, you don't activate the mind. You don't get involved in cute or stupid. Brian's. And also when they say cute and stupid other people, you don't get involved. You do not get involved. You withdraw from getting involved. You do not elaborate the experience you're having of this thing you think is going on. Then, now, from the inside, your own sense that you're an independent person surfaces, and also that some selfishness and pettiness goes with that, often.

[14:23]

You can stand to see that. You can allow yourself to see that. It was there all the time. Not the actually inherently existing self isn't there all the time. Your belief in it was there all the time. There isn't really an inherently existing self, but we pretty much constantly think there is. And it's very embarrassing when you start to see how you think that way, and then also how you act in accordance with that way. very embarrassing to most people. It's not like to see yourself as a great magnanimous being, generous, selfless, and so on. So, like, you know, I had this experience here at Tosara in 1969. How many people have heard this experience? One? Only one? What is it? That's 1970.

[15:24]

But it is a similar example. Yeah. Similar example. Now this is 1969. Do you know about that one? I only have one of these a year. In other words, only once a year do I notice how selfish I am Only once a year do I notice, you know, do I let myself be touched by how self-concerned I am. Only once a year do I get embarrassed about being selfish. The rest of the year I'm selfish without even being bothered by it. But there's something about sometimes you open up to your selfishness and you see it. So how many people know about that example from 1969? Here's a short version of it. So in 1969, it rained really a lot. And the road got washed out over and over.

[16:32]

And Suzuki Roshi was supposed to be the leader of the practice period, but he had a cough. It was from the Asian flu. And plus he had this cough. And plus it was hot. So he didn't come down at the beginning of the practice period. And then it was hard to get him in. because of the road being washed out. But it was also hard to get food in, so we gradually... We gradually... Well, we never really ran out of food, but our diet got simpler and simpler and simpler. We never really missed a meal. But some of those meals were very, very simple. Like, you know, brown rice with alcomachio in the first place. And then wheat berries in the second bowl, and then miner's lettuce, which we collected from the hills in the third bowl. I developed a distaste for miner's lettuce at that time.

[17:35]

About 15 years later, I ate some miner's lettuce, and it actually is very delicious, but somehow in that situation, I didn't like it. So anyway, we had this... diet that got simpler and simpler and also we didn't we never did run out of food but we always thought we might so there are many stories from that practice period around this issue now it's not a problem because the meditators were worried that the food would not be readily accessible they thought they might have to leave tazahar and go to carmel valley to get a hamburger they were always afraid that that might happen and their meditation would be disturbed We never did completely run out of food. It always was available. But still, when certain items were presented in our gradually simplifying meal, so mostly like the bowls were full of kind of like soupy stuff, indistinct soupy stuff, like a carrot in there or something like that, or there was not a chunk of tofu very often, or a mushroom.

[18:47]

So anything like that had a little And also we ran out of, what do you call it, flour, so we didn't have any bread, like nice little chunks of bread. Of course, no cheese or peanut butter. Anyway, at one point during this time, we had soup, and the soup had croutons in it. Croutons are little biteable items. You know, you can actually get your teeth around them and so on, so... Somehow we knew that these croutons were going to be in the soup. I don't know how we found out. There was a soup with croutons in it. So how many people heard this story? Almost everybody. So anyway, I won't tell it then. You're so selfish. So anyway, The croutons, for some reason or other, they sunk to the bottom.

[19:51]

They got saturated, and they were so dense and solid, they went to the bottom of the soup pot. So anyway, we're all looking for it. And there was two types of servers, two general type of servers at Taosar at that time. There were those who scooped the clear liquid from the top, and those who dipped down the bottom and pulled up. any kind of substantive stuff from the bottom, like croutons or beans or something, you know. And we knew which type each person was. We learned that. I don't know why we learned that, but anyway, we knew who scooped from the top and who went to the bottom. So this person who scooped goes to the bottom, he was like going down the bottom, trying to get his friends the best stuff from the bottom, you know, and serving them. He was coming up towards So I was going to get whatever croutons were left. By the time he got to the end of the row, I would get some because he goes to the bottom to get them. But one of the people with skins from the top was on the other side of the zendo.

[20:54]

This isn't the old zendo. And he was scooping this clear liquid off the top and thicker for the servers. So he was serving that side. And as the server who fixed it from the bottom was getting closer to me, I noticed that the person on the other side was finished his row and was starting to come around the end of the divider. He was coming around. So I was trying to watch to see which one would get to me first. And I was hoping that the one, the bottom scooper, would get to me before the other one. But no, the other one's coming faster on the corner like . And he got to me first, and I was, you know, mortified. This wasn't voluntary self-mortification. This was involuntary self-mortification. So he gave me this clear stuff, not a whiff of a crouton.

[21:57]

That's funny, huh? Not a whiff of a crouton. And I was quite disappointed. So that happened. But then this thing hit me, you know, that I was so concerned about getting a crouton. You know, here I... I gave up quite a bit to come into the mountains to practice Zen. I did not come to Tassajara to eat croutons. I came to you know, forget about myself, actually. That's really what I came for, is to be free of self-concerns. That was really what I came for. That was the agenda to come to Tassar, to learn how to be free of self-concern. And here I was, not just self-concerned, but self-concerned about a crouton, getting really concerned and involved about whether I was going to get a crouton or six croutons. And it really got to me. But what I'm saying is that now I was in a place

[23:02]

where I could really be impacted by that selfish concern. It really got to me. I could stand to feel it. It really shook me, and I really felt ashamed, and I was crying, you know, when I came out of the Zen door, to feel so petty, so low, so selfish about such a small thing. But that's the way I was, and I could see that. Some other people, or myself on some other occasion, would just be trying to get the croutons and kill the other person for not getting it. Give me that ladle. That's another story. You know, I just served myself, you stupid skimmer. And they wouldn't even notice that they were so petty. But somehow... I had enough composure to notice how petty I was and to... It really helped me to see that. But it helped for me to see I'm about as petty as you can.

[24:04]

Forget about being petty about big things. I was petty about little tiny thing. Of course, I'd be petty about bigger things probably. Maybe not, but anyway, it got to me. Now let's start noticing how petty we are, shall we? But again, being calm, being calm, not elaborating on our conceptual experience, not grasping what's in our mind, having a mind like a wall, up to these things. But let's start almost welcoming, almost like, I would like to see my selfishness. I feel okay about walking around Tassajara all day long noticing my selfishness, noticing that I think I'm an inherently existing person. I would like to see a vision of my own ignorance, of my own preconception that I inherently exist, of my own extreme view on the existence of myself.

[25:12]

I would like the vision of that. I need to see that so that I can look at it and become free of it. Otherwise, it's inside. me so i invited to come out and i'm and that's that's my invitation it's an invitation it's a quiet invitation it's a calm invitation and it's and i won't and i'll be up and when it comes out i will not trash myself or trash anybody else and i won't track the concept and i won't get hysterical about i'll just quietly say thank you for showing this to me it's painful to see but i'm glad i finally see it And then Barron said, what happens if you would finally see it? And the thing to do then is when you finally see it, you can see it because you're calm enough. If you see this, it's because you're calm enough to see it.

[26:15]

If you see this, it's because your body and mind feel good enough to open up to this thing. Nobody's forcing this down your throat. If somebody comes up to you and says you're selfish, that's not the same as you seeing that you're selfish. If somebody tells you you believe in your inherent existence, that's not the same as for you to actually see that you have that view. You need to see it in yourself. Nobody can... People can tell you, but you don't have to see it. If you don't feel safe, you're not going to see it. So keep practicing shamatha. Take good care of yourself and be ready to see this. And know that when you see it, it's not something that you... It's a sign that you're meditating well, that you're able to see this. What you're seeing is your problem, but it's a sign that the healing process is in motion, if you can stand to look at this. So again, one end of surfaces, then all the more, don't get involved.

[27:19]

Don't criticize yourself. Don't criticize the view. Don't call it stupid. Be even more quiet and more still and more unmoving when you get to see this thing, this self. When you get to see that you do not deep down believe in Buddhist teaching. that your belief in Buddhist teaching is superficial deep down you think it's well you don't think about it at all you think about your own view of your inherent existence that's true all the time and now you're starting to see that and so try to when you see it try to without again congratulating yourself too much try to like foster a steady allowing of the continuous of this self-view.

[28:25]

Try to actually develop the ability to see it continuously. Then once it's continuous, then we That's the first step. Before we then analyze it, we've got to get it into view, like get it into the microscope, get it under the microscope, and steady it before we start to look at what it is. And we will do that, but that's the first step. And I'd like to make that a very substantial first step. One time, I was at Tassajara, and... I was having kind of an easy time. I mean, I would say I wasn't having a new thing for me. I was usually struggling, and things were going very smoothly, and I went to Siddhartha Kurukshetra, and I told him I wasn't having a very hard time, and he said, well, your practice may not be hard now.

[29:32]

It may be the way it is. And he took a piece of paper, and he folded it over once, When we do origami, when we do paper folding, Japanese paper folding, origami, when we fold the paper over, we sometimes press on it for quite a while before we fold it again. If you actually fold a piece of paper over, the time actually is a factor. The crease goes deeper Not just pressure. Like if you press real hard for a short time, it's different than pressing real hard for a long time. Or if you press firmly for a short time, it's different than for a long time. Fabric has some life, and it settles more and more into the fold. So sometimes we fold it over and we press on it before we fold it again. So what I understood is I had just, you know, there had been a fold, and now we're just pressing on it.

[30:39]

So, if you start to see your selfishness, you start to see this view that you inherently exist, you just continue to be calmly practicing Samatha, quietly looking at this, and just press on it before we go on to the next fold in the process, before we start to inquire into our suspicion that our belief is wrong. before we start to shake up our whole worldview here. Okay? So in some ways, I'm going to go away tomorrow for a while. I kind of would like you just to, for the whole week that I'm gone, just work at... Fortunately, I won't have to see you wincing at what you find, but for the next week, just concentrate. See this, just concentrate on facing your selfishness for a week. Don't do anything other than quietly, calmly face your view that you inherently exist and all the selfish things you do based on that.

[31:59]

Just do that for a week. And then during Sashin, we can start to look at what you've found and what's quite familiar to you. You need to get familiar with this. Spend a week getting familiar with your selfishness. But again, if you get too upset with your selfishness, then you've got to go back and work on not getting involved in this selfishness that you see. The selfishness you see is actually just a concept. concept of you, the inherently existing one, and who happens to, because you so wonderfully inherently exist, the world should belong to you. So if you get involved in that, back off and go look at something that you don't get involved in. And then when you're not involved again,

[33:03]

you're calm again, then don't heavily go run after it again. Just, again, welcome the vision of your innate unexamining, your innate ignorance about yourself, your innate turning away from the way your self really is and looking at the self as though it were all by itself. Just face that for a week. Get familiar with that. And then during Sesshin, then we can start to maybe look a little bit more, inquire a little bit more into this opposite of selfishness that we have. Okay, does that make sense? And is a week too long? I think a week might not be enough, but it's a good start.

[34:08]

A week to focus on your selfishness. Do not focus on other people's selfishness. If they tell you they're selfish, but don't get involved in them telling you that. Like, phew, glad that's not me. Okay, so I think maybe Kendra had her hand away a time ago, didn't you? No, it's a little bit different. Selfish is more like the way you feel and act. based on that view. Well, you could notice that you... What did you say you noticed?

[35:17]

You couldn't... No, no. You couldn't notice... You can't notice that you have inherently a consistent self. you can notice that you believe it. You can't actually notice that. You can't notice that. That's not one of the things you can notice. There's no such thing to notice. There's no evidence for such a thing. There's no such thing. There's only a co-arisen self. That you can notice. You can actually see a dependently co-arisen self. There is like empirical possibilities there for you. But you can believe there's an inherently existing self, and you can notice that too, because that's an empirical thing that you can notice. Now, you can notice that not be selfish, even though, basically, you're still selfish, though, but you can still be generous by what other people think, but actually your generosity is for yourself because you believe in yourself. So you're still doing it for yourself because you're defiled by that view, even though it looks like unselfish.

[36:25]

As long as we still believe in that, everything is touched by it. Until we uproot this, Gabriel's touched by it, including Samatha practice, where we do not get involved in objects at all, and we're calm. So in that sense, at that time, the selfishness isn't really operating. We're practicing Samatha for selfish reasons. Even if we have a great bodhisattva intention and vow to practice Samatha, until we uproot this belief, until we completely stop, there's some selfishness even in Samatha practice and even in the practice of looking at selfishness. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go ahead and do it.

[37:33]

And it also doesn't mean that we can't help people right away before we uproot this thing. I think for a person who still believes in her own inherent existence and who's practicing selfishly based on that, she still can be quite helpful to people in all her attempts. I don't know who's next, but I know Vicky had a hand raised. Yes. Yeah. . Did you hear what she said?

[38:57]

If she let herself be a little worse, she can see it. Rather than do something worse, I would suggest you imagine... Not that you did something worse, but that you imagine that you were accused of doing something worse. So, if you can't get this thing out in front, don't start doing bad things so that you can get it out in front. In fact, you know, because then you might say, well, I'm going into the kitchen to steal. Yes, but I'm not really doing it for selfish reasons. I'm doing it for meditation. So, that won't work. So don't try to be bad. If you can't see this, don't try to be bad necessarily work. It's too gross. But one of the somewhat provocative things you can do is imagine yourself falsely accused or remember times when you've been falsely accused. Think of people who have falsely accused you or punished you unjustly.

[40:00]

That's a way to find your belief. in the self. You can also remember, oh God, you can, if necessary, you can also remember some of the things you've already done. And that will probably touch it also. Is there anything left of that guy who did that? Is there anything left of the belief that was there when I did that? So remembering some of the things we've done and how we've harmed ourselves and others at those times, remembering how we've been unjustly punished or accused, or even just to imagine ourselves being unjustly accused, that'll bring it forth. That's okay, but you might be able to find it Every time somebody asks you to do something or every time the bell rings, you might be able to find it with no special thing.

[41:06]

And I don't think we have to do something like simplify the diet or something and import special services to get it going. But if necessary, you guys might want to do that, like Train the servers to like, you know, probably have, actually you should have really good meals and then have them come and serve the most unappetizing part, you know. Salads with really nice stuff in them and just come and give lettuce. You know, have a salad with all kinds of delicious little vegetables and fruits and nuts in there and then just serve this, this service will just bring it right up in front of you and then just serve you lettuce. Or yeah, or giving it to, always just yeah just to the men give all the good stuff to the men on one on one day and then women on the other but really i don't know if it's necessary to do that i think you might be able to you might be able to find this stuff without any special arrangements i think he was first

[42:25]

I'm not going to be here a while. I'm going to be thinking about it. I'm not going to be here a while. You don't... You don't what? What don't you? You don't have evidence... Excuse me. I just want to repeat it. You don't have evidence that such a belief is a source of your suffering. You haven't seen that. Right. So I'm not saying to believe that. I'm saying, first of all, find the view. If you can find that view that you inherently exist, then we can... if that's associated with suffering. But first, find the view I wouldn't assume it.

[43:31]

That's unnecessary. You can assume that somebody thinks that there is, otherwise it's a goose chase. If you can find this view, then we can talk about whether there's any suffering associated with it. When I found it, like that story I just told you, I find anxiety all around that view. You know? When you find that you think you're independently existing, you also care about that thing and care about that thing more than anything else. And you feel guilty and or anxious about that. And you also do things which ordinary people would be ashamed of. Most Buddhists would be ashamed of you do things based on that view. When you start to see the view, then you can see the associated suffering. But you don't have to believe beforehand that that's the source of it.

[44:33]

But I guess you do to some extent otherwise, what good would it do to look for it? Alright. yes it is it is directly connected to the belief in inherent existence yes it is that the conditions for that anxiety is is this self-clinging that's why you're settling down around this your experiences of pain and discomfort So this self, that's why it's quite near, it's right there.

[45:38]

So you don't have to go too far. Like I say, if you can't find it, it can be prodded by some techniques, but basically it's right there in any discomfort of the anxiety variety. So you can go at it either way. Okay? If you've already settled with the first truth pretty well, in terms of your shamatha practice, then the first truth is going to come forward. The self-clinging, craving, and so on. So let's see. So Olivier, and then there's Helen, and Cedar, and Berndt. Do you have your hand raised a while ago, Berndt? And are there people over there with their hands raised? OK. Jerome? And who else? That's all over here? OK. You were a while ago, right, Berndt? OK. So why don't you go ahead, and then Olivier. He was before you, honest. Well, it's based on that special form of grasping which comes from

[47:04]

you know, directly from grasping at an inherently existing self of a person. So grasping is involved in selfishness. But particularly it's grasping that there's other kinds of grasping that aren't for the independent self of the person. So those aren't really selfish things. It isn't really selfish at that level. There's more subtle grasping also. The subtle? Well, that you would think that feelings had inherent existence, that there was such a thing as a feeling all by itself, you know, independent of all the factors which create a feeling, or that a concept was inherently existing, or that an emotion was inherently existing, or any kind of view. In other words, the skandhas, the aggregates, that you think that each aggregate was inherently existing.

[48:07]

So the Heart Sutra, in the Heart Sutra, they're teaching you that the aggregates are empty because the teaching of the Heart Sutra is for people who have already become free of believing in the person. It's for the Abhidharmas. Nagarjuna and Prajnaparamita are teaching the people who have already cleared, mostly cleared, belief in the inherent existence of a person. So it's addressed at the more subtle level. So the Heart Sutra is more like that other level. But that's grasping too. But I'd like to talk about grasping, which is connected to selfishness. Now, the fundamental grasping at things is at the root of the grasping at the person. But start with the gross, and we work to the subtle for now. based on this more subtle grasping. But let's look at the more gross grasping first. Does that make sense?

[49:09]

OK. Olivier, thank you for waiting. I really do feel how much we're durable. Also, sometimes faking how much I'm selfish also benefits people. I don't think it's conditional, but it does end with faking a monster, faking a storm, faking How much did he come? yeah it's really hard so and there are various storms happening in various psyches in this in this place right and I'm saying do not get involved in those storms ride this I would say do not get involved in being lost so you know you're lost that's a concept

[50:38]

I'm hopelessly, madly, impossibly lost. Don't get involved in that. I don't care what you say, don't get involved. Say, well, okay, I'll make it worse then. I say, don't get involved.

[50:53]

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