I'm getting this interpretation or feeling that we're surrounded by fierce flames. I think it's not so much that the flames are getting hotter, And I feel that the Buddhas are sitting in the middle of these flames with us, doing their dhamma wheel turning. I'm not so concerned about protecting myself or you from the flames, because I think that Buddhas are born from these flames, and Buddhas learn from these flames, from this fierce life around us.

[01:29]

As you may have seen, some Buddha statues, especially Mahayana, Sambhogakaya-type Buddhas, like Amida Buddha, you notice they have around them flames, a circle of flames around them. And they sit or stand in the midst of those flames. I also thought I might say to you that I was thinking I might be colluding in the idea or the impression that there's something here where I am that you can get.

[02:38]

And I was thinking as I was walking over here, well, it's not exactly that there's nothing here to get. It's not really that, because there is a somewhat warm body here. It's not as warm as most people's body, but it's up there. So there's a body here. So there's not exactly nothing here. There's just nothing here to get. You can touch it. And in public, you can hug it. But you can't really get it. So I'm not saying there's nothing to get, because there is a body here. for you to enjoy.

[03:52]

It's just what I'm saying is I want to be careful not to collude with the idea that you can get something here. But I think maybe I might be doing that. And I want to confess, if I've contributed in any way to the idea that there's something See the difference between colluding and the idea that you can get something, but not saying that there's nothing to get or that there's nothing here? Colluding. Is it colluding or comforting? Colluding. It's a nice word, collude. Lude, it comes from ludus, which means game or play. but also means deceive. So it literally means to call play, to play together, but also to deceive together.

[05:00]

So it has a nice neutral meaning, or even nice meaning of playing together, but also deceiving together. So I don't want to go. forward unacknowledged in the possible colluding that there's something to get here. But maybe there's some feeling like that. And again, the flames are always surrounding us, us and all the Buddhas. But somehow, sometimes we become more aware of them. Even though these flames are kind of melting us, I still observe the pattern of thought, which is that

[07:19]

Giving close attention to our mental, physical, and vocal activity is beneficial. It furthers our practice of the way. Studying the mind we can realize what the mind cannot reach. Studying intention, we can realize what intention doesn't reach. We can realize the place where no words reach, but where we're living right now.

[08:31]

And the place where no words reach can talk. The talk coming from the place that no talk reaches also doesn't reach the place it comes from. All of our speech comes from this place, but not all of our speech comes with understanding and realizing this place. But if we study our verbal karma and our physical karma and our mental karma, The turning of the Dharma wheel in the middle of the flames.

[09:40]

To learn from the flames and serve the truth. I received lots of, you might call, feedback on pieces of paper about the possibility of experimenting with not having service. And I thank you for all that. But I'm not yet ready. But I'll let you know when I am ready.

[11:06]

I feel OK about asking you to practice patience with what you think about me. with what you think I am. And I am pretty much totally into practicing patience with what I think you are. I love practicing patience with what I think you are. I've been practicing that here for a long time in this body.

[12:10]

Someone said to me that when the word feedback is used, she feels maybe the fences go up. So I've been inviting feedback. And you've responded to that invitation. But I also invite another word, if you'd like me to invite something besides feedback. If you also want to offer other words, I would appreciate hearing other possible invitations I could issue. Also, I would like to confess that someone told me that in the past that he felt like when I sat on the scene and gave Dharma talks, offered Dharma talks, that they came from both my head and my heart, but that lately it seemed more like they're just coming from my head.

[13:50]

And I responded to that person by saying that I appreciated that, and I looked to see where they come from, whether my whole body is engaged in this activity. I don't mind my head or my heart at all, although they're kind of difficult to deal with. But I really would like to come from the melted place, the melting pot, the smashed palace where no words reach.

[14:58]

That's where I really want to come from. And my heart and head, I don't know about what will happen to them, but that's my grievous priority. Have you ever heard of a groovy priority before? I thank you for giving close attention to learning about your minds, your many minds, studying them carefully, calmly, consistently, learning about your mind, getting closer to realize the way which no mind can reach.

[16:22]

So I look at the Tao Te Ching. verse in the Tao Te Ching. It's kind of a fun verse because it says, one way to read it, the usual way of reading it is, the way which can be said is not the eternal way. But the Chinese character for way and the Chinese character for speak in that verse are the same character. There's other characters for speak or speech. But in this particular verse, it says, you could translate it as, the speaking which can be spoken is not the eternal speaking. The way is beyond our words, of course.

[17:42]

So the ancients said that the way is the ordinary mind. But then there's a caution that if you think that the way is ordinary mind, you're adding complications to complications. I like the comment that once you've taken off your sweat-soaked shirt from your back, you may realize that you have eyebrows above your eyes. We have a lot to take care of each moment.

[19:27]

And this will be kind of difficult. And I appreciate your effort. I also appreciate mine. You're working hard, and I am too. Tenzo works hard all day but still gets up early in the morning to come to zazen, and last night she is here too. Appreciate that. Big effort. This morning, there she was first thing in the kitchen again.

[20:29]

May your good health continue. How do your patients practice? Is it on fire? Burning up. Is there any gifts you'd like to offer today? So Master, this is a ceremonial question. If there's no one there colluding with me.

[21:36]

That's not the case. So if someone's there colluding with me. I'm here colluding with you. Then you're a sentient being. Not necessarily. But bring all of your sentient being with you. I have no problem. I shouldn't say I have no problem. I'm willing to be a sentient being with you now. I'd like you to hear the teaching of the inanimate being. You would? I would. Oh. I want to. Than the Buddhas and ancestors. I'd rather be your guru. But still, the Buddhas and ancestors and I are going to plot to see if you can hear the teaching of the inanimate.

[22:40]

OK. I'll try to get ready for that plot. Hear the teaching of what? The teaching of the inanimate. The insentient, the unfeeling. It was Dongshan's poem. And if you can hear the teaching of the inanimate, then the student can't hear the teacher. If the teacher can hear it, then the student can't hear the teacher. The saints can hear it. But the Zen teacher can't. Maybe this is a community of saints. Maybe we can do it. There are a few saints there, I'm afraid. But they can be saved. That was a real realization. Can you speak up, please, Miss?

[23:55]

Good morning. Good morning. I want to bring up something I have resistance to. OK. Can you hear her OK? Yeah. And I'm nervous, because I saw I don't know how related this is, but I've seen how scared I am of my own anger. I'm afraid that some anger might jump out. Okay. Thanks for the warning, everybody. I probably won't. When I heard the I guess I called a request after Sashim started to wear robes during breaks, unless they're going to do baths or work.

[25:06]

It brought up a lot of problems for me. I thought maybe, first of all, it would help if I understood the purpose of that. I mean, I had a bunch of reactions to it, but I realize I don't understand what that is supporting. You don't understand what it might support? I don't need it. But I'll find out. Did that request come from you? No. But it came before my office. And it got a stamp of approval. I'd never heard it before. But nobody said to me at the time,

[26:07]

So I vow to examine it thoroughly with the practice committee and to ferret the beneficial . And we'll let you know. If we don't find it, we'll abolish the rule. But I will investigate it for you. I am your servant. How's that? That's fine. I just want to see if I want to say any more. Can I just take a moment? I'd like to say a little more about what I said in the beginning about the anger. The family I grew up in, there was lots of anger, kind of hysterical anger.

[27:29]

And I realize I still have, I think one of the things I'm most afraid of is enacting that pardon me, which is still very much here, actually. Even though I don't, I think probably at this point in my life, the only people who see it are my sisters. It's a real volatile, kind of a stared anger. And I just have gotten a sense of how my fear of Being that person rules a good chunk of my life. So I thought it would be good to say that. Yeah. It's good to get that out in front, that fear of being angry that way, of anger that's coming from fear.

[28:42]

I don't know if the anger's coming from here, but they're mixed together somehow. I think that's enough. There's a sutra that I'm not familiar with, There's a sutra that I'm not familiar with that I've heard once or twice that says, first mountains and rivers are just mountains and rivers, and then they're not mountains and rivers, and then they're mountains and rivers again.

[30:00]

That may be a bad misquoting, but I think it's not a sutra. It's something that In our lineage, say again, . He said that. He said, when I first started studying Zen, or when I first started practicing, mountains were mountains and rivers were rivers. After 30 years, mountains were not mountains and mountains were not rivers. Now, finally, mountains are mountains again and rivers are rivers again. And I find that to be a very intriguing teaching, but I don't pretend to understand it. I'm just wondering if you could offer some help in understanding that verse. It seems to have to do with conventional verses. One way to understand it is that, you know, like King Genghis Khan,

[31:04]

Khenpo Khenpo says, when all things are illuminated by Buddha's teaching, then there are sentient beings and Buddhas, enlightenment and delusion, birth and death, practice, mountains and rivers. And then, if you You see that none of this stuff has a self. Enlightenment doesn't have a self, delusion doesn't have a self, birth doesn't have a self, death doesn't have a self, practice doesn't have a self, sentient beings, Buddhas, mountains and rivers don't have a self. You see that if you listen to the teaching about these things from the Buddha. And in that situation, there's no birth and death, no enlightenment and delusion, no sentient beings and Buddhas, no mountains and rivers.

[32:27]

And it takes 30 years if you're lucky. So take care of your health. But Dogen didn't say there's no practice, because the practice is still alive in that vision of the emptiness of things and the fact that you can't find mountains and rivers anymore. You look at the mountains, and you can't find the mountains. But then a further study is leaping beyond. And then there's mountains and rivers again, and sentient beings and Buddhas. And then there's everything again in this leaping forth. But now the mountains and rivers are walking and jumping together. And the mountains are reproducing and having mountain children.

[33:31]

And the rivers are having baby rivers. And everything's very creative. In other words, we see the light on the way. So that's the process in that story. And that's the process at the beginning of the Kendra Khan. And so then we go on, for example, to study these, to apply the Buddha's teaching to all these things. So we realize their ultimate nature and then leap beyond our realization, wherein things are just like they were before, except there's a leaping now. Happy studies.

[34:52]

When I visit you, it seems that you You step back. A lot of people are stepping back, I've noticed. I see that because I sit back there. A lot of people are taking their names off the dope song list. They used to be long, but it seems shorter and shorter. People are taking their names off faster than I can see them. The flames are getting hotter. Anyway, he asked you, how do you see me? I think you said today about the patience of how you see yourself. I asked you to be patient with how you see me or how you think about me. Right. So what I started to think about is when I see you... Which will include me. I'll be there too. You'll be there? Well, like, I'm here and you're thinking about me, right?

[35:54]

So if you're patient with the way you think about me, which is the way you know me I can be patient with me, too. I'll be right there. I'm not living there underneath the rock of your thinking about me. OK. But I say, be patient with what you think about me. OK. OK. Who I wanted to get out here with. So I have a view of how I am. Correct. Please be patient with that also. And you have a view of how I am. I do. And they seem quite different to me. Do you see that too? Actually, I didn't notice that they're different. I mean, I know they're somewhat different, but I thought they were pretty much the same. I've been checking my view out with you.

[36:58]

I didn't think you disagreed with me. Unless there's some aspects that you haven't told me about that you think about yourself. Would you care to say what the two views are and how they're different? Do you want to check one out right now? I could, yeah. My view of you right now is that you seem to be having What's your view of yourself? Right this minute? Yeah, that seems pretty good. So in this case, our views have some similarity. They're different, though, because I'm looking at you from over here, and you're looking at yourself from over there. So it's a little different. So I encourage you to check out I'll tell you. But it's just my view. It's not you. It's just a view.

[37:59]

It's just the way I'm seeing and thinking about you. But I'll tell you. And then you can tell me how you see yourself, and we can compare. And so we have that view that I'm having a good time, but is that true? Well, it might be that you're having a good time, but my view... of the good time you're having is not the good time you're having. For example, I can look over at Diana. or Mako, and stop having a view that you're having a good time, and you can go right ahead and have a good time, even though I'm not thinking about you anymore. So your good time that you're having is not my thinking about the good time you're having. However, the good time you're having is dependent on whatever I'm doing. If I'm talking to somebody else and thinking that they're It can be true that you're having a good time, but just that the good time you're having is never anybody's idea of the good time you're having, including yours.

[39:12]

However, everybody's ideas about you contribute to all the good times you're having, because you're not separate from this. Also, if you're having a bad time, a difficult time, and I see you, I have a view of you. And whatever my view of you is based on you, but is not you. There's actually a complete absence of my view of you in you. That's called the thoroughly established character, right? Right. You really are you in your interdependent way. And that's the basis of my thinking about you. But my thinking about you is not in you. And what you think about me is not in you. It's absent in me. But it's based on me. Nobody can think about me without me contributing something to that.

[40:18]

And I really am me all the time. And so are you, really you. And then we think about each other. And we have to be not fool about what we think about each other. And sometimes we need to be really patient with what we think about each other. But it's still good to check out with each other our views. And also we can test to see if people are enjoying the study of thinking, the study of mental activity. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for coming forward and examining this mental activity. Is that enough for today? Okay, more people want to come up all right Yes I heard

[41:43]

that satsang can also be described as immediate response. You heard that satsang can be described as immediate response? So you wanted a gift. Oh, thank you. And I just wanted to see if it's true. And it seems to be still true. I kind of couldn't believe that my gift would be received from the seat over there. Do you feel that your gift is being received? By not a few. It's a few I'm having. has been received or been received?

[42:47]

Is it a wrong view that over there, the seat, it would have been received as well? Is it a wrong view? What's the wrong view you're asking about? To sit on my seat and giving myself and being received? I didn't quite follow that. I heard that even if I would be sitting on that seat, If I could give myself, I would be received, even though it doesn't feel like it. Oh, yeah. I think you're giving yourself all the time, even though you may not feel that. You can give a person who doesn't feel that she's been received. I mean, you can give the person who feels like she's not being received, and that person is being received. in the dharma world, you are being received. So maybe you'd like to go to the dharma world, where you can realize that you're being received.

[43:58]

It seems to be bound to you, sir. Right now, it looks like it's bound to you. It looks like that. Such a person is being received. And that's only patience, I guess? Well, no, no. There's only patience. But patience is essential. So I'm changing right now. And I do want to open up more. It's just that there is some comfort in those few

[45:14]

they're tired to okay have to sit down alone. Yeah. You heard that story about the animal releasing ceremony that I went to? No? I'll tell you about it sometime. You give it. What? You give it. I give it? Whenever you want me to. Okay, thank you. What? Animal. Animal. Animal releasing ceremonies. Thank you. You've heard this story, haven't you? You haven't? I don't know. I don't remember hearing it. Huh? You've heard it. I can't just tell you guys.

[46:22]

So I went to Japan. And I went to this nice temple, which is right next to a golf course. And so we had the sashin. And then I think either during or at the end of the sashin, we had an animal release ceremony. lots of crates of chickens. And we set up an altar in the golf course and made these offerings to Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. And then as the heat developed, we opened the cages and the chickens flew out. into freedom in the golf course. I had gone over to this green and that sand trap.

[47:33]

And then the humans had a delicious vegetarian feast. And then after the feast, I went I went and helped clean up the altar, and I noticed the chickens were getting back in the crates. It's hard. It's harder to be up there in Freedomville. So there's my little cage. And I didn't know if that was just these particular chickens' first experience of freedom, and they hadn't gotten used to it, or whether they do this over these chickens or not. And they're sitting around trying to do the same thing. I think I have a pretty simple question.

[48:51]

I don't know what the Wheel of Dharma is. I'm going to use it in your story. I'd like to know what the Wheel of Dharma is. I've heard it many times. I have a picture in my room of the Wheel of Dharma, but I just don't know what it is. It's a circular process that turns. And it's got like eight basic elements in it, you could say. Or you could also say eight million, or two, or whatever. But it's often described as having eight dimensions or eight aspects. So it's like right view, right intention, Right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right samadhi.

[49:58]

So that process of going through those practices is the Wheel of Dharma. So in your story, the Buddhas were turning the Wheel of Dharma in the middle of the flames. As they turn the wheel, is that so that non-Buddhists are doing the wheel? So they're turning the wheel for other people? They're turning the wheel for unenlightened beings. They're showing them how to do the practices that are the wheel. They're actually initiating and encouraging people to enter into that process. And as they do that, the Dharma wheel turns. I see. And they do those practices that are part of the wheel. They do the practices to demonstrate how to do the practices. They tell the people about the practices, but they also show them how to do the practice.

[51:01]

Thank you. You're welcome. Care to dance? Hm? Care to dance? Yes, would you like to? Sure. This is so sudden. I've got two little feet here. There you go. Could you hear that dance?

[52:36]

Yes. I was wondering if part of the collusion you were talking about at the beginning reminded me of a few days ago when, well, many times you said, the one bowing, the one bowed to, not to. And it feels to me there's been a strong emphasis on the not to in your teaching during this session. And stuff came up at one point after Kazan had come up and asked about the eye of the meditator being the whole universe in 10 directions. And she said something like, so, and you said that the meditator Everyone in the whole universe is not other than you. In the whole universe, there's no one who is not?

[54:12]

There's no one who is not you. And she said something like so. She said, thank you for explaining. She said so. What did you say? So we're all one, or something like this. And you kind of said, yeah. Oh, she said, and I said, yeah. She said, and I said, yeah. She said, so we're all either kind of one, or so we're all one. Something like this. She said, so that means that everyone is participating in this exchange that we're having right now. And then she turned around and said, is that true? And people said, yeah. I remember a different part. That part happened.

[55:13]

I remember that part. I also asked her how she understands that. And she said, we should probably be careful about her of our relationships with people, something like that, didn't you? Yeah, I said that I would like to take good care of all the people that I come in contact with. You remember that part? About your furniture? No. No. I remember her saying something like, does that mean we're all one? And you said no. I said no. There's no one who's not you. Oh, good work. Well, yeah, you said we all . Yeah, we all won. I said no, because no one is not you. Yeah. I guess what I wanted to ask about the collision is somewhere I've heard, and I don't know where, but not one, not two, not two, not one. How do you understand it?

[56:25]

I understand it as... Or have you heard that as well? Oh, yeah, totally. I understand. First, work on not-to. And then zero to that. Don't make that into oneness. Don't be stuck in oneness. But first of all, let's get to not-to-ness. And then watch out for making that into something and staying there. But first of all, get to not-too-ness and appreciate that and practice from there. Can I share what I've felt as an example? Let's see if it seems like an example to you. Before Jenny and I were pregnant, long before, But it's come up again since I had a thought from Aizen Zazen about a woman being pregnant, a child being born.

[57:29]

And right now, so there's a baby inside of her. It's physically connected. There's no physical separation. All the blood in the baby is coming from her. It's her blood. All her blood is the baby's blood, too. Is that true? Well, actually, that's not true. The baby keeps some of its own blood. Well, you have a totally different blood type. Oh, totally different blood type. So the mother's blood The good stuff comes out of the mother's blood, and the bad stuff stays over on the mother's side? No, not all of it. Some of the bad stuff goes through, too. Some bad stuff. Not one. Not one. The baby's blood is not really the mother's blood.

[58:31]

But still, they're not separate. Well, that seems clear. They're different. Different genetics. Different genetics, but they're not separate. They totally depend on each other. Actually, they're not separate beings, but they are different beings in this non-duality. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, I think what I wanted to say Even when the baby's born, whether it be natural, imaginary, caesarean, cupid, vocal cord, it doesn't, like it's not clearly needed. And since this is something that everybody in this room has experienced, whether we remember it or not, it's like at one moment it's like one, and then you say it's two, but really, how could it ever be one or the other?

[59:32]

It must be both. So that's, I guess, my . It seems like . Yeah, I don't agree that it's one now, and then later it becomes two. I think it's not two now, and it will be not two later. The genie and the baby will continue in this non-dual relationship. It's already non-dual, but they're not one. They're interdependent, different beings right now. They're not one. How is it given to say not two, not one, and two and one? I'm kind of losing interest in this. Can I stop? Sure. Is that all right? I'm not sure that matters. You're not sure what matters? I think it's all right. OK. It matters to me. Is it all right? It's all right with me. You all right with you?

[60:36]

Yeah. OK. Looks like the thing is .. May I just hand something off to you, and then walk away? You give your hand to me, and then you walk away.

[61:01]

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