So I'm proposing that whatever posture we're in, if we wish to be the same, if we wish to realize that we're brothers and ancestors, all we need to do is give up seeking. and or give up discriminations. And this giving up seeking and giving up discrimination, that's the samadhi of the ancestors. That's the samadhi of And the posture, also the same, any state of mind, where we can be like that, that state of mind or that state of speech or whatever it is, becomes the ancestors' samadhi.

[01:19]

If you wish to practice certain kinds of, for example, exercises which are conducive to tranquility, if you're practicing concentration, in other words, that's fine. And if you do have some seeking involved, then that is the concentration practice of an unenlightened person. That is the concentration practice of a sentient being, which is still a wholesome thing to be doing, but it's an ancestor's sitting meditation, or the Buddha ancestor's samadhi. If you're practicing concentration with no seeking, free of all discrimination, then it is.

[02:39]

I have two things in relationship to this I'd like to bring up this morning. Stop for a little while with this, after making this radical proposal. Yes? Does that mean that if we're concentrated on anything specific, that's not the Ancestry Samadhi? Is that the difference between the two? You can be concentrating on something specific. You can be concentrating on something specific. totally concentrating on something specific, with no seeking, and it's the ancestor of samadhi. An ancestor would concentrate on something very specific, and they would be doing so without seeking anything.

[03:47]

An ancestor could wish you well, could wish you the best, could want the best for you, and could want you in a very specific way. But there would be no seeking in that desire for you, or welfare, no seeking, and no discrimination. Of course, wishing people well is wholesome and good, If there's seeking in it, it's not the mind of the Buddha, it's not the Buddha's practice. It's the sentient being's practice, in this case, a wholesome one. Of course, Buddhas never, and ancestors never, wish people not well. They only wish people well. That's all they do. There's no seeking. And what could be free of discrimination? That's their samadhi. Of course a perfectly enlightened person doesn't seek anything, but they're full of desire for welfare of beings, unhindered good wishes and good news.

[05:03]

Yes? Is that okay for now? Yes? I'm just wondering, so how is the desire different from the seeking? Oh, I want you to be happy, but I don't seek for you to be happy. I'm happy with the way you are. So non-seeking and freedom of discrimination are kind of the same thing. If I discriminate between your present state and what I want for you, then it's hard for me to resist seeking. ...happy, but maybe a while before you're happy. But they still want it for you. And if you take your time, which you might do just to see a Buddha convocation with you, the Buddha just keeps wishing that for you, without being caught by discrimination between what you are and what Buddha wishes for you. Therefore, he wishes or she wishes with no seeking, with no sense of gain or loss.

[06:10]

Okay, a lot of hands here. I may never get to my tapas yet. Can you say something about the inquiring impulse? I think we chant that, the inquiring impulse. Is that seeking, not seeking? Is that the same as... The inquiring impulse in the Jyulmira Samadhi. Okay, inquiring impulse. Literally what it says is, it says, the arrival of energy. coming of energy. It has a character like in my name, Zenki, energy or opportunity. So you could say with the inquiring impulse, did you say? You could say with the arrival of energy, which you could say with the coming of energy. So, in other words, it says the meaning is not in the words, but it responds to the inquiring impulse. If some teaching is coming, The meaning's not in those words.

[07:19]

If the Buddha says, hello, the meaning is not in the word. But if an inquiring impulse comes to the Buddha's words, the meaning pops up. Or if an opportunity of a person bringing their energy to the words happens in that interaction, we have this thing. Now, if the person is seeking, if they're coming with seeking, the seeking will hinder the realization of the meaning, which actually does come when they come forward. So when the Buddha's there, and you go to see the Buddha, coming to the Buddha, the meaning pops out in that meeting. But if you're seeking, you won't see it. I've heard it sort of in... The mind in meditation is sort of a questioning, what is this? Again, that could be it.

[08:23]

If you walk up to a flower or a Buddha or a painful feeling, you come forth to that experience, and you wonder what it is. That could be you arriving as a wanderer, Gary the wonderer, Gary the questioner. That's what we had here now. That's what's come. The opportunity is Gary has a question. About what? A flower or a Buddha. Okay? That's the opportunity. And there, the meaning is in Gary, being Gary who's got a question right now, in relationship to something that he's aware of. Gary who's aware of something is the opportunity. And he has a question. That's the opportunity, too. Okay? The meaning comes... meeting. But if there's any seeking... too bad.

[09:28]

Seeking and grasping are those... Seeking and grasping are very closely related, yes. I think it's kind of like... you get into seeking. You're welcome. And then we've got John and Jared and... Did you have your hand raised? Do you want it to be recognized and recorded? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter? Hi, John. Does discrimination refer to discriminating between outcomes? Yeah, and also discriminating between yourself and others. between your present state and enlightenment, between good and bad, grasping it, and then, you know, seeking and so on. I see you, and let's see, Jared?

[10:31]

I actually have the same question, and you said about discrimination. between yourself and others. In your example to Shogun, you said a Buddha can want to save you. A Buddha can want to save you, yeah. Or can want you to be happier. They can, apparently. They talk about it all the time. Even apprehending somebody as you, isn't that discriminating? They're free of discrimination. They're free of it. No kidding. That's the big thing. They don't discriminate between themselves and other people. They're not caught by that. Wouldn't you just kind of be like soup?

[11:32]

Yeah, you'd be like soup. Very good soup. Love soup. You'd be like soup. I'm kind of serious. Like, can you... I guess you're kind of serious, huh? I mean, like, some discriminating is necessary, isn't it? Yeah. But being free of it is possible. Oh, so you can discriminate but not be kind of stuck in it. All righty. Want to say thank you again? No. Okay, I don't know. Talk to some people over here. I have a hand raised, too. Do you want to tip on the board? Okay. All right, so I think the next person was the person who said it doesn't matter.

[12:35]

I've heard it before, and I guess somehow when I heard it today, I felt like just getting up and walking out of the room, just thinking, this is too hard. I can't even imagine not speaking, not discriminating. You can't imagine it. Well, did you hear what... It's not that you're not supposed to have discriminations in your mind. That's not caught by me. That's so particular. Yeah, even that. I mean, I can see my thinking about discrimination. And so you take that as it doesn't matter. It leads you to it doesn't matter, right? feel like a failure and I can't do it. And I just want to go home. And I don't have a home. Let's see, I don't know, maybe, do you think you're next, Kathy?

[13:51]

I don't think I'm next, but I want to get in line. Okay, I'll get in line. Okay, well, just to get this side of the room some attention. I would kindly request that you continue with the material in order to present and maybe question later. Okay, I hear that. She thought I had some other material I wanted to present, and maybe I could take questions later. That's what she was suggesting. She's not alone. And she's not alone. And she said kindly. And she said kindly. Suggest. So let's see. Well, what do you think? Lots of good questions here on this issue. Also, there's Graham and Eric.

[14:53]

Huh? So... But I also feel like I guess what I was thinking is, I have just told you a very simple way to practice the actual practice of a Buddha and be the same as a Buddha. And then one comment, it's impossible, I can't do it, it's really hard, etc. These are reasonable comments, but if I gave you a more complicated way, you might say the same, but anyway, this is a very simple way

[15:54]

to practice. And I'm saying it's because we have habits, you know, very strong habits to seek and very strong habits to make discriminations and get involved in them. And so it is difficult to... to give up the discrimination, for example, to give up the discrimination between your present state and the state of being able to give up discrimination. So in the case of I see myself now involved in discriminations, I hear about a practice of discriminations, and I cannot give up the discrimination between those two. As a matter of fact, I think it's impossible to give up the discrimination between those two. And you can say it's impossible, and I can say, I propose to you it's not impossible.

[16:59]

And I propose to you that the whole practice of the tradition hinges on the possibility that one could become free of the distinction between yourself and others, and between enlightened people and unenlightened people, and that the enlightened people can make the distinction but they're not at all caught by it. And unenlightened people are caught by it. And then there can be various forms of being caught. So I think maybe I could kind of simply present these other two points. And the question may be, if you can remember them, you can come back to them. What do you think? Is that all right? Yes? I have a very quick, simple question for people who are right and miss the first statement. Basically, give up discrimination and seeking the ancestors and Buddhists.

[18:06]

Yeah, or if you wish to realize you're the same as the Buddhists and ancestors, give up discriminating, like it says. It's called revering Buddhists and ancestors. Revering Buddha, you are one Buddha. You are one ancestor. Remember that part? I would elaborate on that a little bit. Revering Buddhas without discrimination. You are one Buddha. Revering ancestors without discrimination. Just flat out revering. Just bringing forth your reverence, period, with no discrimination, with no seeking. You are one Buddha and one ancestor. So if you want to be the same as the ancestors, they're not into seeking. If you're not into seeking, you're not into grasping. They're not into grasping. They're not caught by discriminations. They've got a discriminating mind.

[19:07]

They're not caught by it. Ordinary mind, like I said, is a suffering of Is Zen Master the same as the suffering as a student? Yes. And I say the ordinary mind or the deluded mind of an unenlightened person is the same as the deluded mind of a Buddha. Yes. Buddhas have deluded mind? They have one. They're just not caught in it. They can use it to talk to us and stuff. So, yeah, if you want ancestors, just give up seeking. If you think, I can't give up seeking, if you, the person who cannot give up seeking, wants to be the same as the ancestors, then just give up seeking while you say you can't. In other words, don't be caught. That's all. All right? So what I was going to say is that this point of there is a teaching that if you

[20:11]

that we should... And it exists in the Zen tradition, in a sense, of, you know, give yourself wholeheartedly to the practice of zazen and attain enlightenment. And, of course, that's the point, so then you can stop practicing zazen. But the logic of that is the logic of the practice and the enlightenment being two. So now you're practicing and you feel that your practice is separate from the enlightenment. And then if you keep doing the practice, you realize enlightenment. And then when you attain enlightenment, you'll realize enlightenment from the practice. So you don't need the practice anymore because now you've got enlightenment. If you don't get caught by the distinction between practice and enlightenment, you're enlightened. But then you wouldn't stop practicing.

[21:19]

The distinction between your enlightenment of not being caught by the distinction between practice and enlightenment would be your practice enlightenment. So that's why That's why the practice and enlightenment are not two things. You can discriminate between them, but if you're caught by the discrimination, that's not practice enlightenment. It could be a practice, though, but it's not practice enlightenment. The logic of practice enlightenment would be you practice and you're not caught by the distinction between your practice and future attainments, and whenever there's an attainment, you're not caught by the distinction between that and the practice.

[22:19]

Practice enlightenment just goes on forever. That's one thing I wanted to mention. And did you want to say something? Just a little thing. I wrote down somewhere that Zazen equals receptivity. And I don't know where it comes from. I found that very helpful. Oh, thanks. Not everything. I'm not saying everything is helpful, actually. This comes from Dr. Chien. But that is, I mean, it's awareness, but the receptivity, having that idea that I'm just open for whatever happens without, and then asking. And not seeking. Right. And not being caught by, what do you call it, discrimination. And it works. So we can now have questions about this point if you want, or I can move on to the next point.

[23:19]

What you said about somewhere on the chain that says, Buddhists may not necessarily know that they're Buddhists. Yeah. And that, is that what you're saying? It's just not a station. practiced in a zazen realization like that. But we might not know. We might not know that enlightenment is happening. You might not know that enlightenment is happening? Yeah. Yeah, you might not know that. Is that why the Buddhas might not know? Well, that's one that could be a reason for it. Another reason is that, yeah, that they And this isn't just enlightenment, this is the Buddha. And one translation says sometimes, don't know, but it also says, don't think.

[24:23]

Don't think. And sometimes it's in quotes. So they do know that they're Buddhas, but they don't go around thinking that they're Buddhas. So if you ask them, are you a Buddha? They go, well, What do you need? Or, you know, whatever. They kind of know they're Buddhas. And if they were forced to check, you know, Buddha, not Buddha, they... You know, they kind of know, but they don't go around thinking that. But they can think that. They can think that. But they're not caught by it for me. They're not caught by it, and they don't grasp the distinction. Right. So they can think that bodhisattvas can think, I'm a bodhisattva. They can, but they don't. They have other things to do, too, besides thinking about that they're bodhisattvas. Mostly thinking about the welfare of others and Buddha, thinking about their boss.

[25:27]

And occasionally think, oh, I'm a bodhisattva. No, very seldom that they think that. They often say they want to be bodhisattvas. Okay, I can go on to the next point now, and then we can go add questions. Is that good? The next point is kind of a big point. If I would suggest, and if I understand it's being suggested, that samadhi is not limited to any posture, And it can't be realized in any posture. Okay? So then, what's the reason for in the sitting posture? So, this may be an inflaming statement, but I'm just going to say it here to get it over with.

[26:36]

This kind of teaching, What you would think is very good news to what you might call non-professional clerics or, you know, non-priests or lay people. Because it says very clearly you can practice this in any posture. You do not have to be sitting frost-legged in your house or in a zendo or on a mountaintop. you can realize this practice of the Buddha in any posture. So this is perfect for all different people. In other words, Buddha's samadhi is for everybody, because it can be done in any situation. I mean, any posture, I can say.

[27:38]

It can't be done in this... ill-will towards somebody. People can have ill-will towards you, and you can practice it, but you can't have... It would never be that you have ill-will towards someone, because ill-will cannot exist when there's no seeking or discrimination, or caught by discrimination, but in any posture. The Buddha is samadhi. So this is great news for so-called lay people. So what's the point of all this sitting? In some sense, the lots of sitting, purpose of lots of sitting is to encourage the practice, really is to encourage the practice which is not limited to sitting. That's what it's really for. and who are doing lots of sitting, all that sitting is to encourage the practice of Buddha's Samadhi, which is not limited to the sitting they're doing.

[28:54]

People who don't do a lot of sitting can do this practice, but in some way they do not necessarily encourage other people to do the practice which doesn't depend on any posture, as much as the people who are doing the sitting posture, encouraging people to do the sitting posture, to realize that the meditation we're pointing at does not have anything to do with sitting. The people who sit a lot, working with the dynamic, they're constantly dealing with the dynamic of doing the meditation and not being caught by the discrimination between postures. And when they do it a lot, they get lots of lessons at catching themselves at discrimination. And as they do this a lot,

[30:04]

They suffer around the discrimination very clearly and they get purified of the discrimination by doing a specific form. In this way they become encouragements to people to practice it. But there's a danger that people will think that you have to sit in this posture. And the people who sit a lot are dealing with that danger all the time. And the people who are not sitting, although they can do what these other people are doing, they're not struggling with this purifying fire. And so some might say those who are working with this are called priests because they're not just practicing this practice. They're practicing it to encourage other people to practice it.

[31:05]

Their job is not just to practice the ancestor samadhi in any posture. Their job is to encourage other people to practice the ancestor samadhi in any posture. And they have to work with a posture to burn out of them any sense of this being limited to any posture, by choosing a posture. put out there as a ritual, as a ceremony, celebrating this practice which is totally unlimited. The limited form out there is celebrating the unlimited. And then they get caught by the form. A million, million times they get caught. And their friends catch them, their teacher catches them, their students catch them. And in that way, they become a very pure encouragement to the actual practice. And some people who actually can do the practice do not take the form of working with the limited form in order to be purified of any cleaning they have to that form and thereby demonstrate to other people that they can practice it.

[32:19]

Someone who's been caught a million times can really emphatically tell people, you can do it. And we're working with that right here, because we just did the sesshima, we did lots of sitting. So we didn't have to do that, except that we were playing a role in the tradition of purifying ourselves and each other and our practice of any discrimination about the practice, by picking a particular form. And we choose the form that the Buddha chose to do the same purification process. But it looks to me like Buddha did not spend that much time each day sitting cross-legged. Did a lot of walking. Did a lot of foot... had a lot of foot washes.

[33:24]

eating, and stuff like that. Now, when he was giving Dharma talks, he might usually have been sitting. But you know, our founder had back problems. And sometimes he could not sit upright. But he was the Buddha reclining. We have reclining Buddha statues too, right? Not just dead, but reclining. Wise students were sitting up giving talks who had backs that were functioning in that way. He didn't stop being Buddha because he was reclining or walking or squatting. Pardon? Shakyamuni Buddha. Dogen, as far as I know, I didn't hear he had any back problems. He had boils, and I think he had either cancer or TB, or both, towards the end of his life. But he didn't have back problems.

[34:30]

I've never heard him having back problems. Some people don't have them. They have other problems. So, yeah, so there's the sitting thing. You can do this practice in any posture. And the sitting is part of the cauldron. that this practice gets purified of sitting. So that by sitting, you find this practice, and then you continue, after you find this practice of non-discrimination, of no cleaning, where you actually have entered the ancestor samadhi, you're there, then you continue to perform, to keep even purifying more and more, of any sense that this form is it, and thereby convey even more to people at large that they can enter the Buddha's mind right now, wherever they are.

[35:39]

And as you also know, most Zen stories of the monk are not about somebody sitting cross-legged in a zendo. It's about somebody having a personal interaction with somebody, usually standing up or walking. or, you know, even dancing, or being knocked down, or having children. Most of the stories are about non-sitting postures. Of course it happens in sitting posture, that people enter the samadhi and realize it without necessarily thinking it. But most of the stories, it can be in any posture, in any conversation. if the mind will just drop off its usual habits. But still, these stories happen in places where people are using this form to burn away . So apparently we need to use these forms to burn away our discriminations.

[36:49]

But once the discriminations are burned away, We continue to use the form to demonstrate the necessity of using the form to become free of the form. To demonstrate that we don't need the form, we use the form. Because you can say, I'm not attached to the form when you're not using it. When you start using it, hey, you start to look like you're attached to it. You understand what I'm saying? Before dawns or dawns, they were the same as you. Do you understand? Yes? Some do and some don't. Well, when you start to think you own them, you know, you start to discriminate. Before you even get involved in things, you feel pretty relaxed.

[37:50]

When you get involved in them, you start... It brings out the latent grasping, seeking, discriminations. It brings them out. It puts them out there where people can see. And we're having right now problems with that right here, is that people are putting these forms out there and we're having pain around these forms with each other right now. Right? Do you know what I'm talking about? And also just, you know, our own schedule and how we take care of each other up on the schedule. Are we attached? Are we discriminating? Is there any seeking here? We see it, and we suffer, and that burns away this seeking in our practice. We want to have a nice monastery here.

[38:53]

If there's any seeking, we start hurting each other. It's not pretty, but it's part of the burning away process. Yes? How is what priest does different from what Leslie and Sutton was practicing? I think that before I get into the difference, that during this nine-day sesshin, everybody here was doing a lot of sitting. We didn't have to in order to realize this practice, right, according to what I'm saying, but we did. This is for both priests and lay people. Well, why need, what's the reason Paul is sitting? I'm proposing the reason. Now, if someone wishes to accept that responsibility to do a lot of sitting in order to encourage zazen, what Suzuki Roshi usually pointed out is the reason that's the job of a priest.

[40:06]

They are encouraging zazen. And someone may think they're encouraging claustrophobic sitting, which they might be doing that too, but they could be encouraging the zazen up. So in that sense, the lay people, sitting this much, are encouraging the actual practice of Buddha. And that is the work of priests. But we don't usually say... The difference between lay and priest is we don't usually say that a lay person's job is to encourage the practice of Buddhist Samadhi. But Sonia and Leslie... Of course, Leslie missed the session. She's doing it somewhere else. So anyway, whenever any of you are sitting, you could be doing that to encourage the practice of non-discrimination and non-seeking, which is what makes people the same as Buddhists.

[41:11]

That could be your motivation for sitting. And when you do that, you are doing peace work. But we don't usually call laypeople's job the encouragement of zazen. But we do call that, or I do call that, the job of a Zen priest. At least this is a religious limit. Your job is to encourage people to practice the ancestor samadhi. That's your job. And the most important way to do it is to actually realize it. Once you realize it, That was important. But you might find that doing the ceremony was, you know, inseparable from it. And it's a very good way to teach other people to do it. So most people keep doing it afterwards. And Shakyamuni kept doing a lot of the forms that he did prior to being a Buddha, he kept doing afterwards because he liked to, and also to show other people the way.

[42:18]

Here's a form for you to try and see if you can use this form without attaching to it. And sure enough, you can't yet. Okay? Keep trying. Keep doing the form, see if you can do it without attaching to it, without resistance to it, without liking it or disliking it, with no discrimination. But you might find another form. Possible. Once you've found this practice, you can use any form. But if you use the sitting forms, because it's, you know, I can go on about the advantages. You can do it when you're old, you can do it when you're young. The Buddha did it, etc. There's lots of good things about it, but you can offer people anything and then watch the sitting. If there's any seeking that there is, you can help them with that if you yourself want to and think it's good.

[43:28]

Okay, so those are the things I wanted to present, and now we can have lots of questions if you're up and ready for it. And I haven't called on you yet, for starters. Jerry, and Jane, and Yanis, and Sarah, and Kimo, and Kathy, and Eric, and Graham. Most people haven't called on yet. So, I think Kathy and Graham and Eric were earlier. Is that okay to call? That's kind of in order. Well, when you were talking about without discrimination. Or free of discrimination. Free of discrimination. But then it doesn't mean that it's about discrimination, but that one is not caught by it. Correct.

[44:35]

As you said, non-discrimination doesn't mean not discriminating. Understanding your discriminations. Actually, he said, now I remember what he said, he said, non-discrimination doesn't mean not discriminating, it means you study everything. So no matter what it is, you know, this kind of person, you study this kind of person, you study that kind of person. You do the same thing with everybody, you have one mind called the mind of non-discrimination that you apply to everything. including all your discriminations. Most people have a discrimination, they hold onto some and reject others, and that's discrimination. But to study all discriminations is another way to say what non-discrimination is. So then how does this play out in our practical exchanges, say, if you have a decision to make, such as a youth model, making several decisions here, do we have ways to keep mine or not?

[45:39]

Then you got input, and you talked about this with me, and then, you know, you did make a decision. So there's some, there's some, there's discrimination to the level of having them or not have people. Yes. Okay. So then, in terms of, I'm just trying to connect that real-life experience with this teaching. So how are you? How are you? Was I an ancestor? No, no, no. Where I live, my most important... No, I'm talking about me now. You used the example about me. Yeah, I did. Yeah, so I'm asking you, how did that do? Well, I... So I had discrimination. Have they been seeking your mind talks? No, they haven't been seeking your mind talks. Want them, not want them. Okay? Those are the discriminations. So I'm looking at that to see if I'm not caught by it. That's what I was doing. I didn't want them. I saw different from having them, and then I cannot be caught by them.

[46:44]

So what would being caught mean? Well, it could look like me hating you. Or certain comments. Constantly about how good or bad they are? That could be the way. Like, and I could be angry at you for pontificating everybody. You know? You know? I could think, well, you're caught by it because you think they're so great. But anyway, it basically looks like... It looks like violating the Bodhisattva precepts, like thinking you're better than somebody else, like those who want them think they're better than people who don't want them, or vice versa. Go around disparaging the people who want them or disparaging the people who don't want them. Basically, it wouldn't look like the Bodhisattva precepts. That's what it would look like. And inwardly, it would look like kind of also like attached, holding on to some discrimination. Rather than looking inside and saying, oh, there's discriminations, but it's like, it's like, there are discriminations, but mostly what's happening is clearly observing.

[47:51]

That's mostly what's going on here. It's like, there's the discriminations, and over here is Reb. There's discrimination, and Reb feels this way, and he's telling you how he feels, and then that's not the way other people feel, but he's willing to trade places. You know, you can arrange that. And if his mind changes, if his mind changes, and directly look inside and see if he holds, if he holds, at any point in the process, you can observe the boat starts rocking, you know, things start to smell bad, you know, and it's probably holding on at least a little bit. I kind of know what it's like when I hold on to some discrimination. It feels bad. So that's how to work on it in the light.

[48:55]

you should ask us to be able to do because I think we do get so caught by all of the discriminating right wrong activity when I find it such a liberating feeling to be able to actually be in a circumstance where a decision is made something decisive happens it's not just mush you actually rather than another And for that to be able to happen in an environment that doesn't have to have continued making each other wrong and engaging in all those different kinds of behaviors that are so familiar. But it doesn't mean indecisiveness, which I think is often the fear. I know that I hear kind of out in the world, oh, well, if you don't have some kind of real rigid discriminatory function, then it's just going to be worse and nothing's ever going to happen. And I don't think that, that's not, that's not assumed.

[49:59]

No. No. No. Graham? Okay, so my question is about... I think in the ganja code it says something like, Buddhas are realized within realization, and sentient beings are deluded about realization. Well, first of all, it says Buddhas are... Buddhists are those who have great realization about delusion. Right, okay. Sentient beings have delusion about, great delusion about enlightenment. That's the first thing he says. Then he goes on to say, Buddhists are then further in enlightenment, beings are then further deluded within delusion.

[51:03]

All right. But within delusion, I've heard that that valid, in a sense, is the bodhisattva vow, to be deluded within the awareness of realization? No. No. I don't forget about that. That comes with it. You already got that. What made the vow, I think, to be a bodhisattva, is vow to practice in the midst of delusion, wholeheartedly. That's what the bodhisattva practice is, wholeheartedly practicing delusion to the point where you understand delusion, but are not attached to it or enlightened. Another part of the question is, you're talking about Buddha's practice, and I don't understand anything about bodhisattva practice. In a sense, you're like putting off Buddhadharma. And so, I don't think you're ever found.

[52:06]

Bodhisattvas put off Buddhadharma for the welfare of others, but they do Buddhist practice. Buddha is in the seat of Buddha. The bodhisattvas into Buddha practice, it's just there's certain condition that they're not going to enter into until they've done their work. But they're doing the same practice as the Buddha. Same practice, not seeking, non-seeking, non-discriminating. But Buddha's in the special condition of being a Buddha. Which, you know, that discussion, if you want to have it sometime, we could do it. It's a special situation to be a Buddha. So we only have one Buddha in this historical epic. But we have numerous people who have understood the same thing the Buddha understood, created the Buddha.

[53:08]

They've got the same understanding, and they did the same practice. But only that first guide is to be a Buddha in this tradition. because everybody is helped by the tradition, even though they have the same understanding. Bodhisattvas are taking on this thing of becoming a Buddha over innumerable lifetimes by helping people, always with the idea of postponing your Buddhahood until all beings are enlightened. They get forced into the Buddha process by all beings. And then at some point, they get made into a Buddha by all beings, even though they themselves would want to postpone it. Everybody has to have gratitude. That's the heart of Buddha. OK? And Eric? Yeah. I'm going to try to characterize what I heard earlier.

[54:16]

And I want you to give your back to me if I understood this correctly. OK. In this state, even if it's only a matter of not seeking or not grasping, or as Rinpoche said, kind of this open receptivity to just what comes, that is the Buddhist practice, that is the mind state, that is the Buddhist samadhi. You're in the Buddhist samadhi when you are not seeking and not grasping. Correct. And although I agree with that, At the same time, it's receptive. Joan, do you want to say something? Receptivity is self-receiving, but it's also expressing. So it's not just being receptive in this non-discriminating, non-seeking way. It's also to express this samadhi.

[55:19]

in your thinking and in your posture. So it's being receptive in this way and it's being expressive in this way. Because you're still like, you have a mind that's arising with activity, that's mental activity, that's your karma. Now, it will express this non-discrimination. And your speech will express this non-discrimination and non-seeking in your posture. will express nama-seeking. That's the samadhi. And it includes everybody. Diet becomes part of it, and so on. And you start resonating with everything, and that's also part of it. OK? And let's see. No, it was you. Janine? Can you come up here, Jane? The question when you say you resonate with the whole phenomenal world, is that in terms of your own experience, your world, or whenever you said that, I kept getting that person's world as opposed to everybody's world, and I'm unclear about that.

[57:07]

Well, one response I have to this is, however, all this does not appear within perception because of your unconstructedness and stillness. So you're resonating with everything and everything's resonating. Your perception is always actually the way you resonate in. I was talking to you about this the other day. My experience is turned on by him. So your perception is actually the resonance with all beings. So it isn't that the resonance appears in the perception, your perception is the resonance. And their existence is their resonance with your perception, because your perception is turned on by them. This cannot be seen outside. In that way it's technically, or by its nature it's inconceivable. But you can realize it as non-seeking and non-grasping and non-discrimination. Because in this field, discrimination doesn't really hold up. So would everybody in the universe be involved in that method?

[58:16]

Yes. All things are engaged in this activity. And its expression. And its expression. And its expression, yes. But because they're fully involved in the reception and expression of this resonance. However, if there's grasping, there's seeking, and you're caught by discriminations, it seems far away. Your mind creates a distance between your experience in such a state and such a residence. You're speaking to other people, aren't you? Okay, so Buddha sees this, he sees that everybody's involved, but he should resonate it.

[59:24]

And, but he said people don't see it, but they're still involved. That was my question. That was a quickie. So, you know, like, you can be playing, you know, realize sometimes. But even those who do realize it don't realize it in that perception. They don't look out and say, oh, that's it. But their perception fully realizes it. Yanis? You said at some point that after someone has burned away the discriminations, why can't I don't think I said that. If I said it, I'd take it back. It's not that someone burns away the discriminations. It's not that the person whose discriminations are burned away. It's not so much the discriminations are burned away. It's the attachment to the discriminations that burns away.

[60:28]

And the person doesn't do it. But it happens to the person. Like if you jump in a fire, you don't burn yourself. A fire and your body together do that. So if you practice Zen long enough, in a bad enough monastery, and your attachments to discrimination will be burned away. But you don't burn yourself. Right, that's okay, but it sounded like there's a point. You never did. The cross-legged thing for a realized person is just a means of practice which they don't see as separate from their realization. And they do it because they like to and they think it's helpful to people. It looked like it was helpful to them.

[61:33]

They had to sit in that posture a long time before they realized the burning away of clear... Like, as you know, in some Zen monasteries, like this one, and some Zen communities like this one, people are very concerned with whether so-and-so is sitting. Are they sitting? Are they still sitting? Yes. Something that came up for me was that as a real person, not an enlightened one, through a lifelong process... Are you suggesting that enlightened people aren't a real good person? As a non-enlightened being... go through a lifelong process where you're always burning some discriminations, but others come up.

[62:37]

Correct. Yeah. Hopefully, some discrimination, not so much, discriminations get burned, and also attachment discrimination get burned. Discriminations, they're definitely changing. But some people are not appreciating that the attachment to discrimination is going away. It's the attachment to discrimination that we call discrimination. And you're saying, going through the life of an unenlightened person, that that process occurs, but the new ones come up. New discriminations and new attachments come up. That's why, even if you enter the samadhi, people need to keep practicing it for a long time because they can actually have several occasions of being in the samadhi and then if they stop being devoted to the practice they lose the enlightenment. And part of the tragedy of the first wave of Buddhism

[63:39]

I think was that some people, some important people who helped transmission got initiated by various causes and conditions into the samadhi but then didn't understand the necessity to continue to practice. And so they were like the tragedy of having access and then spending the rest of their life having the old habits come back in because they didn't understand that the practice has to continue Because when you stop practice steps, the enlightenment stops. And they were confused about that, so they couldn't understand what was wrong with them. Because they had authentic initiation through practice, in practice. They were actually in the practice of non-seeking and freedom of discrimination, and therefore they received this. It was authentic. But because they didn't know that they had to continue, they got really unhappy.

[64:44]

A lot of them became drug addicts, alcoholics, committed suicide, etc. It's not always that bad, but it needs to be cared for after it occurs by continuous practice. Because new things come up and you have to do the practice with them too. This kind of enlightenment is impregnable. The actual Buddha activity is always going on, but the realization of it has to be always coupled with practice. Otherwise great realizations, they go away, but they can be a condition for lots of trouble, trouble that people who didn't have such experiences don't have. Any other questions? I think I'd like to comment on some of my experiences as a Christian.

[65:50]

I do Zavet as well, Tim. And many times people who come have practiced before. It was too painful for them. They couldn't do it, and they felt they couldn't be like everybody else because it was too high. And I spent a lot of time with people cringing it in public doctors, alternative doctors, pulling them into it. And maybe for a while they would never be able to do the capabilities, but they could do some exercise. They did not see watching people practice as encouragement. They felt inadequate and turned away. And so they left and wouldn't come back for a long time. Right. The other group of people are people who are people who are wrong. who are getting into their 50s and 70s and have had knee replacements and hip replacements and back problems and are not able anymore. And they feel like they can't do Sashin anymore.

[66:53]

They feel they can't be part of the Sangha anymore. And so we had to do like a special sitting like Kanzai. People who have problems who can have maybe not sit as long or more breaks or ways that those people can feel okay. And for my own self, you know, a couple years ago I had a crush injury in my knee, and it permanently was damaged, and for me it was an adjustment to feel okay, like I really can practice. And having to use a bench some of the time and that kind of thing. So this posture thing is important, especially when reaching out beyond lungs to lay people who... When you say this posture thing, you mean skillfully dealing with the issue of posture? Skillfully dealing with it, with seeing certain people who can be very pure about their practice, being famous ancestors, and other people who...

[68:01]

So that's why I thought that this type of understanding of what zazen is would be very helpful to people like that because they don't need to be in that posture in order to do the actual practice. However, if we define it, There's kind of yes and. Because what I hear always is, well, there really is the right way, but if you can't do it, here's another way. I mean, that's the message we get a lot. I understand, but I'm not talking... You're talking about something else. I'm talking about conveying to people, whether they can sit cross-legged or not, what the practice is. And although I think this is very good, it's difficult for people to understand this. It's easier for them to understand, this is the way you do it, and I can't do it. It's easy to understand that. But to understand that the Buddhist samadhi is non-seeking and being free of discrimination, that's rather difficult for people to understand.

[69:14]

To understand that just sitting is not limited to the sitting posture, people don't understand. But there is this practice for them. The people who cannot sit, there's a practice called just sitting for them, which means it's not limited to the sitting posture. And then they have to deal with discriminations between their posture And the people who can sit cross-legged have to deal with it. The discrimination is between their cross-legged sitting. These people are not sitting cross-legged. Those of you who can sit cross-legged have to deal with the people in chairs. Your minds are discriminating between yourself and the people in chairs. Posture. Okay? The discrimination comes right up there. So we have, by having a posture, the people who come in, their discriminating mind comes up, and so there is an opportunity to help them be comfortable, that's fine, but you need to transmit the practice to them, which is noticing, okay, right now you are making discrimination between what you think is appropriate for your body,

[70:28]

Rosy ate something, looks like, huh, Ros? So the situation of getting them into a posture that works for them is not unimportant. But the most important thing is to contain the actual practice, which is quite difficult. And so here we have also people sitting in different postures, making discriminations about themselves and others. Like, I'm not in the right posture, or I am in the right posture. And the people who are in the wrong posture, they're in the right posture. If I'm in the right posture, they're in the wrong posture. Such thoughts occur here, probably. There it is. There's the discrimination. That's the thing to kind of let Okay, now we're here. I'm confessing, but I'm caught by discrimination here.

[71:38]

Confessing and repenting that, it drops away for a moment, and you're back into practice. You have a chance to convey this to beginners, although it's difficult for them to understand. That's the actual practice. Not too many people understand this, so therefore they can't convey it. That form is the practice. We can't have the practice without a form, because people are attached to discrimination, so we have to give them a form to find their discrimination so they can let go. But it sounds like the thing's working really well for you. All these people have minds, just like people who sit cross-legged easily, these people have minds which are making discriminations. you can help them. And also the new people who can sit cross-legged, you can help them by telling them, this is the posture we recommend and you can do it.

[72:39]

However, your practice is not limited to this posture. And if you think it is, you are not doing the practice. Young person. And you tell the old people, they're caught by the discrimination between themselves and the way they used to be, or the young people, or the black people. Discrimination is what needs to be released in order to actually enter the Buddhist Samadhi. And then they can come back with all kinds of comments, like, well, what about that, and what about that, and what about that? Okay, there's more. There it is. There's the seeking, you know, like seeking to get rid of the distinctions. Just get rid of them. But sometimes you want them to come in the door, especially new people. So you have to come and sit for a while or be for a while.

[73:43]

Yeah, they're attracted. You want them to come in the door. And the way you get them to come in the door is... with nice simple words like Zen, that attracts them. They like the one Zen, like Charlie said, one syllable. Another way to get in time in the dark, yes, have good food, free coffee, a nice clean Zendo, a quiet room with, you know, not too much stuff on the walls. Really up guys in their 60s? Right. You can use it in various ways that are not against the teaching. Now, why do you say no? I'm saying what you said. No, I didn't say no. You did say no. You said no. that encouraging them that there are multiple ways for them to sit and practice and experience what they need to, you know, experience the practice is important because that is a barrier for them.

[74:55]

Did you say encouraging them is important? Yes. I do. And they get encouraged, they call us and sit there on the telephone, they get to the front office, and somebody answers the telephone and there's a tone in their voice, and they feel like, I want to practice there. They just hear that voice and they think, I want to practice there. The person gets encouraged. If they come to Zazen Instruction because they heard that Berksley Center has good food or something, and so they come in and they look like, Timberwood Greenhouse has a nice garden. They're like, what a lovely garden. Oh, look at the pretty flowers. What's that building over there? I mean, somebody comes out of the building and says, welcome, you know, and they say, oh, who are you? I say, I take care of the building. Would you like to come in and see? And they go and they see the Buddhas and they see the Sapaways and straight rows and they feel scared, you know, like, I don't know if I know how to go in there. They say, oh, come on in, it's okay.

[75:56]

Or, well, let's go outside, let's go back to the garden. So you encourage them, you know? You do something that they consider to be lovely and attractive. And you do that because you want to offer the practice to them, but they're not ready for that yet. First of all, they need to be encouraged. And one of the ways you do it is you say, oh, you don't have to sit that way, you can sit this way. But what you're trying to do is... let them calm down enough so you can tell them what the practice is, to show them what the practice is. But the fact that you are being kind to them is coming from this place. This kindness is coming from the Ancestry of Samadhi. And if the kindness which is coming from the Ancestry of Samadhi gets mixed up with discrimination and seeking, it gets twisted a little bit, off track a little bit. It doesn't mean it can't come again, but we're coming from this

[76:59]

We try to practice good. And one teacher says, if you practice wholeheartedly, avoiding evil, giving up discrimination and seeking, that is the bodhisattva's precept, embracing and sustaining forms and ceremonies. So that first pure precept is when you practice avoiding evil with no discrimination about evil. That's called forms and ceremonies. That's the dharmakaya. So you would bring the dharmakaya to people, and that encourages them. And then as they get encouraged, then you gradually disclose to them that the dharmakaya is not seeking anything. He's a mind that doesn't seek, that's free of seeking. He showed that to them. But when they first come into the Zen Center, they want to come in.

[78:05]

They're actually, they want to come, you know. But then their mind throws up all these discriminations like, oh my God, look at those people, they're sitting still, I wonder if I could do that, and so on. So it floods with discriminations and they get You know, they get in trouble. Then you have to hold their hand and say, I'm with you. Fear no evil. I'm here with you. Don't worry. We're going to get in and out of this room with these weirdos. It's going to be OK. You're welcome here, too. They don't look like it, but they really do love you deep down. In the inner sanctum of their samadhi, you know, they have no, they're not caught by any discrimination because you're a beginner, and they're not caught by any discrimination. You're a beginner in your advanced studies. Yeah, right. So, you convey that to them, and that encourages them.

[79:08]

So we do various things in the tradition to express the bodhisattva, to express the samadhi, but at the same time that encourages people to enter. And as they enter, various discriminations come up and we help them not get caught by them. And we can do that if we're not caught. We can get in there and say, oh, how can we let go of this stuff? That's it. Oh, yes, sir, sorry. I don't know. I think just a while ago, the kindness that you were talking of there, the encouragement for us to be kind as an expression of ourselves in practice was just, I felt it before, it was just refreshed for me, and I kind of want to reiterate, I guess, but also to...

[80:13]

As an expression of gratitude, also for the privilege that we have. And I wanted to thank Carol for making that, for clarifying that distinction about, because it was so clear to me when you said it, that that's what you had meant, like actually we're all doing this caretaking of the city practice and an expression of that. And at first I thought, you know, do we have to be kind? That's sort of my tendency, I think, that we shouldn't do, but then it just sort of seemed naturally, like, actually, yeah, we really should make an effort. It was kindness towards people, like, physical things and ourselves. And you form a posture and you don't make any distinctions. between that form and another form, then you will be kind with these forms.

[81:16]

If you get into the distinction between this form and that form, even toward yourself, then you may feel, oh, I'm no good. I'm no good. That's not very kind. But the not-kindness is tied in with this form is not that form. My state is not that state. And there really are separate. It's a mean thing to do to ourselves and say we're actually separate from the Buddhas. We're not. The goal is here. We only make a decision with our mind, and that is not a very kind thing to do with our mind, but we do it. If you can see the form and see that other forms are not those forms, and not be caught by the discrimination, then you will express kindness in that field. And that's part of the challenge here, particularly for the Daoans and the Eno. They have these forms, and they're trying to do these forms of discrimination between this way of hitting a bell, and this time for hitting a bell, and that time for hitting a bell, these discriminations.

[82:26]

If they're caught by these discriminations, then they won't be kind to themselves, or the other. Or the bell. Or the bell. And then if they learn these forms well, so they're not picking on each other anymore so much, then if the non-doan people are not following the forms, then again they can discriminate between the way they're doing it and the way the doans are doing it. And again, if they get caught by the discrimination, lack of kindness will come out. Which is not pleasant, I'm sorry. But it's a way to get at the show. Who asked what it looks like? I think Kathy asked, what would it look like if you do get caught? Well, it looks like violating the precepts. It doesn't look like avoiding the precepts. I'm doing it right. I'm better than you who's doing it wrong. I'm doing it the proper way, the usual way, and you're doing it another way. And I'm at least a little better than you.

[83:29]

that's going against that precept, but also shows that I'm caught by the discrimination. So working at the kindness, the kindness will help the holding, and the holding will help us find the lack of kindness. So the compassion and the form together will help us find the wisdom, the dharmakaya, which is, yes, which is these forms, distinguishing clearly between them. And, you know, for those who can see very sharply the differences, to see those differently and not attach to any of them. And then be kind to people about them. Because you're not attached. Or, Because you see sharply, if there's any attachment, notice there's some lack of kindness.

[84:31]

Which goes together with the other thing which develops during the practice period, is that we start opening up to each other more and more. Vulnerable to, I should say, become more and more aware of how vulnerable we are, how much of it affects us, which means that if people are the least bit attached to the discrimination between us, it starts to hurt us more and more. So that's a part of what's going on right now, I think, in the practice period is that we're hurting each other more and we're more bothered by the slight attachments to the discriminations between us now hurt more than before because we've opened to that. And then when you get out of that, it's hard for us to stand our ground and say, OK, now what am I doing here? And what do I feel? And to stay there with the situation.

[85:32]

So we'll just go over it. So there's these different the samadhi and the kindness and the forms. At the very much beginning, we started with the non-seeking mind is the ancestors' samadhi. Concentration is fine, and then I heard you say, a concentrated mind, which is non-seeking, is also the ancestor of samadhi. So then it came up to me, what is the difference actually between concentrated and not concentrated, non-seeking mind? sort of differences. And I just wondered, when I thought about it, I mean, for the Buddha, maybe not. Could you address it right there for now? Yes. So, let's say we have a Buddha here.

[86:34]

The Buddha could be in a fairly calm, let's say. He may know how to develop states of concentration which are much higher than the one he happens to be in right now. That Shakyamuni Buddha could be in various levels of concentration. He's at various heights and various depths. He could say, well, right now I'm calm and I'm mindful and I'm wise, I'm the Buddha, but I'm not actually in a state of concentration. And then he could also go into a state of concentration and come back. But When he's in a state of calm or tranquility, the Buddha, I think, was always tranquil. He wasn't all in states. So he's tranquil and wise, non-seeking, non-grasping, free of discrimination.

[87:34]

That's our Buddha. And he can be in various, he can be calm, get into more and more calm. And those are different states that he can go into. But he does the same practice in all those states. He previously had experience in these more profound states, non-ordinary states of concentration. But he didn't have non-discrimination in those states. Those who were very good at these concentrations had not realized non-discrimination. They had not realized non-seeking. They had seeking, and they were caught by discriminations. he realizes non-discriminating, non-seeking, tranquility, all the different levels of concentration. Next part of your question. That was very helpful. And so I see that the Buddha has no problem of choosing concentrated or non-concentrating part because it just comes to him or not.

[88:36]

But the normal person feels between concentrated states or non-concentrated. And I thought about when we talked about these postures, it's just maybe, is it like a different posture, is it a specific posture of mind which you choose, and would you suggest to choose a concentrated posture of mind? What I understand of just preceptive state of mind which is not seeking. I think so. Let's see if I do. When I meet someone, I would suggest, or when I find myself here in this world, or whoever I meet right now, to do the Ancestor Samadhi. If the person is too upset, we have to go to the garden for a while. I have to hold their hand and give them some delicious organic bread.

[89:39]

Then they chew it for a while and they start calming down. And then I feel like, oh, now they're calm enough, now we can enter the Ancestry Samadhi. So they do. But sometimes I feel like people are too upset to hear the instruction, which would initiate them into the actual Buddha Ancestor Zazen practice. In that case, I give them some encouragements to feel more calm with their discriminations. Again, when they're a little bit more calm, without entering into a deep meditation, they can enter. Now, once someone's doing that Buddha ancestor meditation, they may wish to develop more concentration or learn how to bake bread or whatever. They can do whatever they want. And then they try this and they continue non-seeking while I learn how to help people or become a doctor or become a baker or become a yogi.

[90:52]

They can do all this stuff. But the standard, the criterion is non-seeking, non-discrimination. Anything I do where I don't have that, I should bust myself and go back to the basic practice. And if I'm not calm enough even to remember what the basic practice is, I need to calm down. And when I do, I usually remember what it is. And usually if I'm not calm, it's usually because I forgot the practice. Because not doing that practice is agitated. But some people may choose who are doing this practice to become, you know, to spend their time getting really concentrated. And doing lots of sitting, that's possible. Perhaps. I mean, it would be helpful if you give them powers and abilities to encourage people to practice more. But some people go into these concentration states, and when they come down, they aren't coming, because they would totally not touch.

[91:59]

Attachment to discrimination and seeking, while they were seeking and successfully attaining things, and when they come down, they feel upset because they've lost what they sought and attained, and they get grumpy, even though they've sincerely got concentrated. But for someone who's got the samadhi, The slopes of concentration are down into the pit of concentration. They can do that without attaching them. And those are helpful things to do, just like, again, learning how to build bridges can be helpful. The key is always check to make sure there's no... But as I hear you saying that, it is not that you would generally suggest to beginners, like you suggest to sit in the zazen posture, in that specific one, to choose a specific concentration to help to realize non-seeking mind, for example.

[93:04]

What we usually do with beginners is we give them a posture to sit in and something to work with, but In Zen, sometimes and sometimes not, they get a sort of picture to work on a concentration, right? In Zen? Or in Zen centers? In Zen centers. Yeah. Like, I mean, like, follow your... But that's to a great extent, again, encouragement, just to get... And also it's crowd management. OK. Welcome. You might go to Europe.

[94:10]

You might go. Sorry, the people that chose to leave or something. Huh? Yes. But I'll take Leslie's question then. Leslie? I was wondering if you could please make a mention that I think you made about calling the people who are encouraging, who can use this, well, I'm not sure I understood, but anyway, calling somebody, Chris, who I thought was, I thought it was a writer, he said we can call these two here. And I thought we should maybe call them where we saw this. Chris, yeah, could encourage people. to the samadhi which can be done in any posture. But I think lay people can do that too, so I didn't understand. Well, I guess what I was saying is that lay people don't necessarily think it's their job to encourage people to practice the samadhi.

[95:17]

But priests... Well, I think actually bodhisattvas do. Bodhisattvas do. Right. So you say bodhisattvas do. But I think there was a question about priests. It comes up. Well, it does, actually. So maybe it is better to say Bodhisattva's job is to do this. I just think in our community, it's a way to say this is great. Because there's so many, as you were saying, there's so many lay people who are practicing, really, with bound to benefit beings, including lots of different cultures, but including . Some lay people want to encourage Zazen practice in sitting form.

[96:19]

Some lay people want to encourage the Ancestry Samadhi. And some priests want to do both those things, too. And Bodhisattvas want to do both those things. And so then one more thing, which just creates problems, to say it's priest to do that. Yeah. If that wouldn't cause a problem for me, I mean, I would also say it's the job assignment of a bodhisattvas to do that. But you could also say it's the job assignment. You could also say, I think it's the job assignment of lay people to do it, too. You could say that. It's different than saying we would call these people priests. OK. All right. Thank you. Sonia? I'd like to say three things that I think are connected. Sonia? Yeah. I'm wondering if three things I'm sorry I didn't call on you yesterday.

[97:22]

Could you do one? What do you think, folks? How's your energy? I think you're short. Okay. I'll leave off one. Okay. One is we've been talking a lot about discrimination, which for me sort of has a feeling, positive, negative, put a bad to it. And I feel like once you see, it doesn't mean you stop discerning. And that has a different feeling to it, which is the same thing when you're doing zazen instruction or whatever. You discern maybe how you want to say it. It's not discriminating which is better or worse. When you're cooking, you still have to discern if you're eating the zazen. And the other is, and I haven't looked this up recently, but it kind of came up on the table, exchange with you is that within a word or let's say posture and attitude I believe are connected by

[98:39]

That's etymology. They are implicating each other. So saying that the Buddha's posture, this posture can happen again. But there are many postures. It's like cultivating an attitude that we use to be late, which is the attitude where you're sitting in a chair, bench, or zappo, or whatever. It's what I feel you might be trying to bring us in relationship. Buddha's posture is not limited to any particular attitude. Buddha's attitude is not limited to any particular posture. And I think in sailing, attitude has to do with posture and the way... I don't know about... We say mental posture, and we say physical attitude and physical posture.

[99:45]

So they're closely related. And I think posture can be a mental thing or a physical thing. And discernment, you could say non-discriminating discernment. Sometimes that's an information. Discrimination usually is not a synonym for wisdom. Or we can say subtly discriminating wisdom, or wisdom of subtle discriminations. So there is a kind of wisdom where these subtle discriminations are not being caught by the type of wisdom. And then there's another kind of wisdom, which is the wisdom of seeing non-separation. But not being caught... So you discern the sin for wisdom, I think. But not being caught doesn't mean whether we're having love-seeking life or not. Right. Still. You see it.

[100:46]

So there's a test. If you want them or don't want them, if you think they're good or somebody else is better, was it in heaven? Can you... about what you think, what you want, without being caught by the distinction. And again, without there being any seeking. Can you express yourself without seeking? Can you make your expression a gift without trying to get anything back? So that ties in there too, which is the kindness. If you express yourself with no seeking, then it'll probably be kind. If you express yourself kindly, it may very well be that you're seeking it. When people express themselves to us and feel they're seeking, they may feel sometimes that they're not being kind to us, they're trying to manipulate us. And again, when we're very sensitive to each other, that can hurt.

[101:55]

We're open to that being somewhat painful. So I think it's possible to say, I want you to do x Yes. There's something that comes up right out of that. Because I sort of checked out of this class a while ago, and I'd like to sort of check back in. And I think it was around that. So I'm going to tap. It's just that the whole discussion about kindness, about taking people in pain out to the garden at Greenville, it's actually to feel kindly. That's what really... It didn't feel kind? No, it felt really patronizing to me, that when people show up in pain, and maybe this is just and the idea that I would get sort of some organic and be kind of babied in for a while, because it does feel kind of manipulated. I think that I actually... Yeah, and so I checked out at that point, and now that kindness is coming back around as a topic, I'd like to check back in.

[103:01]

Okay, that didn't feel kind, so thank you very much. Well, I'm not saying that the Green Gulch Garden and our bread is set up to draw people into Zen Center, but I would say it does. That people who are afraid to come to Zen Center, if they see the garden or taste the bread, they feel like they can come in. Can I make a request? Yes. I am someone who is afraid to come to Zen Center, and I think they get drawn into things like that. Is that maybe when we talk about it, it could be half of yourself? My voice got kind of high pitched. Let's go up some more. Let's maybe not do that. That would be my request. I hear your request, and I will probably, I will tell you that I don't think you're trying to manipulate me by that. So I'm not saying I'm not going to raise my voice, but I hear what you're saying.

[104:04]

Thank you. Any outstanding comments? Yes. Yeah, I just wanted to, when you said that, I sort of think that was a pretty good speech as far as expressing support for people who probably need help in continuing the baptism. Yes. That's how I think it's . And somebody else may have picked up a little bit of, or a lot of, what, if I'm seeking maybe some attachment to some discrimination or something, if it came out or something. Thank you very much.

[105:08]

No? No? Okay, so the instructions from the EO about time to return. And after these, I'm going to do a sit for a little while. Okay. And I would request that before you check out, It's kind of easy sometimes to do it, but before you check out or as you're checking out. That's not exactly a question, but just maybe we could have this thing of checking out, something like that. I realize I didn't quite know how to communicate that I had to check out. But if you're starting to check out, that's more like pulling the emergency button. Oh, yes? Do we just enter the back door on our own any time before 11.10 and sit down and not wait for the bell?

[106:19]

You don't have to wait on the bell. You can just write in, sit down, there will be a bell, and start clarifying. So I think I said this before, but I'll say it again. When you feel left behind, Pardon? I'm sorry. I was saying to myself, we're not going to make 1110. Yeah. When you feel left behind or something, you can pull the little emergency stop and say, I'm feeling left behind. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[107:11]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_81.32