Simple color of true practice of the true mind at faith, of a true body at faith. the world that we find ourselves in now, the circumstances in which we find ourselves living, is the consequence of and intimately related with

[01:56]

our past action. And sometimes students of the Dharma say, intentions and actions, which is kind of a problem because then people think intentions and actions are different things. The world in which we find ourselves now is the consequence and intimately related to our past actions, comma, intentions, comma, stories. The stories that have arisen in our mind, not just mine, but all of our minds, are the intentions. Our stories are our intentions. Our intentions are stories. Our stories are intentions. Intentions in the story. And our basic action, the basic action of a living being is intention, is a story.

[03:15]

All of our stories together from beginning create worlds. We create worlds for ourself with the aid of others, and we create stories, worlds for others with the aid of others. We are responsible for worlds which we are aware of and share, and we are responsible for worlds which we are not aware of. We share worlds with those who have similar karma to us, who have similar actions, who have similar stories. We are aware of worlds with those who share similar karma.

[04:22]

but we also have contributed to the formation of worlds which we do not know. And beings in worlds which we do not know contribute to the formation of our world. All by the same mechanism of mental activity, intention, storytelling. So I propose to you that I think, probably, we all think we're living in this room, and that the air condition's on, and that if it wasn't, most of us would think it was a little too warm. But ants would not. They love the heat. Polar bears would think it's way too hot in here, even with the air conditioning probably.

[05:29]

So, but, yeah. And then within this world which we share, we probably maybe share and know the world of a Zen retreat going on now. But then with among us, there are sub-worlds. So we have some English professors in the room who do the karma of English professing. And as a result of that, a world is created, which those of us who do not do English professing don't do that kind of karma. We don't know that. And if they would tell us about what things are like in that world, we would say, hmm. And they would be conversing with each other, and they would know what they're talking about. But a lot of us wouldn't know what they were talking about much. However, we also simultaneously overlap with them as being humans.

[06:39]

But because we don't put as much storytelling into English as they do, We don't know the inner world of the English professors that they're living in. And they look at each other and say, you know what I mean, right? Yes. You know what I mean? No. Also do, you know, know things which the fathers don't know because mothers have different karma. Women have different karma from men. and create sub-worlds within the human world where they know what each other are talking about. They create a world because of a subset of similar karma. If a man would do the same karma as a woman, he would live in the same world that the women's karma created. So again, fish have different karma.

[07:43]

They live in a fish world. We contribute to the fish world. They contribute to our world. But we don't know their world. And they don't know ours. Buddhas also have different kind of karma. So they create another world. A Buddha world or a pure land. They live in that world. Because they have different kind of karma. And they can, however, they can manifest in worlds, the kind of world they live in, they can manifest in other worlds to help beings in worlds that they have created too, but which they don't live in exclusively because they're not limited by the kind of karma that creates those worlds. So the Buddhas are those who are involved with Buddha practice.

[08:51]

Those who are fully engaged in Buddha practice. And Buddha practice is the practice of all beings. It's still a kind of action. It's called wholehearted action. and it liberates beings from worlds that are created by half-hearted action. And half-hearted action is the action, type of action, where a being thinks they're doing it by themselves. So the human world to a great extent is created by those who have in the past had stories of being separate. from their relationships or being in addition to their relationships. And the story that I'm in addition to my relationships or I'm in addition to my family

[10:12]

or I'm in addition to the world, or I'm in addition to my thinking, that actually, that story is a relationship, which I can also think I'm in addition to. So there's me and my stories of how I'm in addition to my stories. And that is a relationship too, which I cannot see. And all beings contribute to us imagining that not all beings contribute to us. All beings support us to feel separate from them. Parents support children to learn to feel that they do things by themselves. A lot of parents do. They think it's necessary, and it kind of is. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to talk to the other kids at school because they'd be in a different world. They'd be in a world that was created by not thinking that way. So they'd go to the Buddha world before they were, you know... And that would be difficult for them.

[11:22]

They'd probably have to be hospitalized. So the Bodhisattva... The bodhisattva is one who lives relationships, who is living relationships. You could say who is living relationships, but who is living relationships. The living relationship is the bodhisattva. Bodhisattva is not an addition to the living relationship. They don't like go in there and do that. They are the living relationships. And then part of the confusion is that people say wonderful things about them, so then people think that what makes a bodhisattva are the marks of a bodhisattva, the marks of a Buddha. But really the marks of a bodhisattva are the marks of their relationship, of the relationship that they are.

[12:33]

It's not the individual person, it's a characteristic of the relationship. Generous, peaceful, compassionate, patient, ethical, concentrated, and so on. Upright, gentle, harmonious. These are characteristics of their relationships. So part of the debatable skill and means, people talk about that as though we're a characteristic of a person to get people's attention. But it has a drawback of misleading, kind of confusing us to think that these are marks of a person. And they're even called the marks of a person. But the person is the living relationship among all. A person is a relationship. The Chinese character for person looks kind of like this. She says, this is the character for, you know, my arm going like this and my arm going like this.

[13:35]

This is the character for person. And she says, this is woman. Take away the woman, man falls flat. Or you could say, this is woman and this is man. Take away the man, the woman goes flat. There's no man without woman. And as a consequence of thinking that way, a world is created which is more or less stressful and suffocating. If we learn to be wholehearted in this world and start to open up to how in this world, which is created by not being wholehearted, the doors of the world open and we enter into the life of living relationship where we're not in addition to our relationships.

[14:50]

where we realize and exercise that we're just, we're nothing but a relationship. ...includes all the past stories of half-hearted relationship. We don't, we don't say, you know, we don't push those away, those old stories that made, that made worlds and that we used to believe in. We accept that. We confess that. Even if anymore we still admit I have the ancient karma of in the past I used to think I did things by myself. So these teachings about karma are offered to undermine the sense of independent action.

[16:09]

undermine the world is out there, objectively existing and real, rather than the world that we live in is intimately related to our stories, to our actions. Not just mine, all of ours, but mine too. That, and therefore to undermine this, any kind of any kind of line demarcating responsibility. And also to the idea of a world that arises separately from our own stories. And once again, if we care for these stories and open to a wholehearted way of being with them, and therefore then a wholehearted way of experiencing them, we are liberated from the stories, we are liberated from the karma.

[17:50]

But then we continue to practice storytelling because just being liberated is great, but the world, if the liberated people don't keep participating in the storytelling, then the world would just be run by the unliberated. The world would just be created, if the liberated dropped out, then the unliberated would be the only ones created. The case, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are continuously contributing to the formation of the worlds. They're making Buddha lands, Bodhisattva lands, and they're also coming in and contributing to the world of the unenlightened. So that's why we continue in thinking, in storytelling, in intentions, in karma, even if we're free of karma. We don't need karma anymore except in order to help beings and transform worlds and create worlds.

[19:00]

So I often quote the Middle Link saying number four, at the end of which the Buddha says, speaking of a practice that he has been questioned about, the name of the text is Fear and Dread. At the end he said, now someone might think that since I continue to do this practice that I'm not liberated. that I'm dependent upon this practice in order to be kind of okay. When you're liberated from karma, you don't need karma anymore to be liberated. So why do I keep doing the practice through which I became wholehearted and through which I became liberated? Well, for two reasons. For future generations and because Now most of us are making up stories compulsively and obsessively.

[20:11]

Buddha's makeup stories too are rather, I should say, now most of us are involved in obsessively and compulsively. And part of the reason we're obsessive and compulsive about it is we think we're doing it by ourself. If you realize you're doing it together with everybody, you won't be so obsessive and compulsive about it. Matter of fact, some people say, I don't even want to play anymore if everybody's going to be in on my stories. But if I'm the only one who's doing it, then I get obsessive and compulsive about it, more or less. You know, there's a range, right? But Buddhas are not obsessive and compulsive about the storytelling that arises in their mind. They don't think they're doing it by themselves. They don't have to be compulsive. It just happens with the aid of all beings. Beings go, beep, beep, beep, and then a story of beep, beep, beep arises. being said, come help, and they have a story about somebody's calling. So they participate joyfully in the storytelling.

[21:19]

There's a creative, generous activity, not because they have to. And they enjoy it. So they do it for people and also they enjoy it. So they keep being involved in practices. They keep manifesting in practice together with everybody, to help everybody, and they have to. They can hang out where nothing's happening. They can hang out where nothing arises and ceases. When you're liberated from karma, you get to experience where everything is in a state of nirvana, where everything is unproduced. That's really peaceful and joyful. And you're free from the land of arising and ceasing, birth and death, birth and death, birth and death, yuck. You get free to that. And experience the way things, you get to experience that actually everything, including all the beings who are suffering, are basically non-arisen and in nirvana.

[22:35]

But because of the bodhisattva's vows, you don't stay there. If people call, you respond. And in this nirvana, you don't hang out there. You naturally wish to bless all beings. And in order to fully exercise the blessing, you tell stories. just like the beings who are telling stories believing that they're doing it by themselves and therefore who are obsessive-compulsive about it. So that's kind of a summary, but I get this feeling like you're understanding that better than the last time you heard it. Is that right, somewhat? I'm not asking you to believe it, but understand me, you could almost repeat it.

[23:42]

So again, we have the Zazen practice, you know, Zazen in the Soto Zen school or Rinzai Zen school in China they call it. Anyway, Zen meditation, wonderful Zen meditation. And we don't have, we haven't done a survey, but, you know, I, not intentionally like in writing down the answers or anything, but I've heard from many Zen students, verbal expressions, that they think that they do Zazen by themselves. That they can go into a room and do Zazen by themselves. And that when they go and sit with other people, that they're sitting, they're doing their zazen and the person next to them is doing their zazen. And my zazen is my zazen and yours is my zazen and etc. Like, never the twain will meet, something like that. My zazen is not as good as yours, yours is not as good as mine, etc.

[24:52]

Or neither one of us is any good or both of them are good. A lot of Zen meditators think, and other schools also, they seem to think that they're doing the meditation of that school, the person I'm doing the meditation of this school. So that's not the wholehearted practice which is Buddha. The wholehearted practice is my zazen is your zazen. And that zazen, which is our zazen, is beyond good and bad. To say that it's bad is ridiculous, but cute. To say that it's bad is ridiculous. It is enlightenment. The zazen of all of us, the concerted activity of all of us, is what Buddha is.

[25:55]

So again, and they've heard about being wholehearted and they try to be wholehearted and then maybe they even feel like they're being wholehearted, you know. They give a lot of energy and attention and they just give a lot of themselves to being wholehearted, but they still think that they're giving it. So it's not really wholehearted because they're not letting everybody else in on it. even though everybody is in on it. They don't let everybody in on it. And they don't feel like everybody's letting them in on their practice, even though everybody's letting them in on their practice. They don't feel like they're sitting for everybody and everybody's sitting for them. If you felt like you were sitting for everybody and everybody was sitting like you, I think if you had really lousy concentration, it'd be fine with you. If my lousy concentration is for all of you, if my cancer is for all of you, fine.

[27:05]

If my cold is for all of you and all of you are supporting me to be cold, fine. This is enlightenment. But if I don't have a cold and I'm not sick and I'm quite concentrated and it's all by myself, I'm scared. I'm tense. And I'm deluded. So the bodhisattva vows are a way to lift this silly little zazen that I'm doing by myself, to lift it up. on the great vehicle and let it go forward together with everybody. The vows are a way to invite all the Buddhas and everybody else, everybody, even the lousy practitioners, to invite them in on your practice and to give you to lift it up, open it up, and make it into Buddha.

[28:25]

Make it into Buddha. the practice of everybody, the practice and enlightenment of everybody. To just gently, consistently, uprightly, peacefully bring, invite everybody in on it and give it away to everybody. Offer it to the Buddhas. Use it to praise the Buddhas. Use it to remember the Buddhas. Use the vows to remember that your practice is with all the Buddhas. Use them to remember that all the Buddhas are with and for your practice. You're not doing it by yourself. You're not doing it for yourself. You're doing it for all the Buddhas. And you're doing it for all sentient beings, and they're supporting you too, and you're supporting them. These vows are to help us open up to the actual meditation practice of the Buddhas, the actual practice of the Buddhas, which is Buddha.

[29:30]

It's not like Buddhas and their practice. Just like it's not you and your practice, it's not Buddha and your practice. It's Buddha... And Buddha practice is everybody's practice. So when your practice is everybody's practice, then there isn't you and other people's practice, or you and your practice even. So that was also kind of a summary. So now these vows, again, are ways to test your openness. to test your openness and to continuously, or anyway, as continuously as you can, to repeatedly, to repeatedly, to over and over again, life your activities with knock on the door, knock on the door, knock on all the doors, and invite knocks on your door. And if you feel like you don't want to knock on the door, that's fine.

[30:35]

Then confess, I don't want any knocks on the door. I just want my own little practice alone. I confess, I do not want to practice with all those people. Some people, okay, they can come in, but not everybody. And the Buddhas, please, give me a break. I'm, you know, I want to mention a story which I think is relevant. I think a Zen monk in Southeast Asia, I think maybe in Vietnam, he was a noted Zen monk, and he was noted enough to get an invitation to a royal birthday party or something like that. Most Zen monasteries, they don't serve meat. You know, most Zen monasteries, they serve vegetables and grains.

[31:39]

He got invited to this royal feast, and at the royal feast, they often serve meat and fish. So he was eating a lot of meat and fish, and I think he was even also drinking some alcohol. And he was doing quite a bit of it. And the queen came over to him and said something like, You know, Buddha would be ashamed of you or Buddha wouldn't practice like you. And he said, I don't want to be like Buddha and Buddha doesn't want to be like me. Bodhisattva vow could be, I don't want to be like Buddha and Buddha doesn't want to be like me. could be a bodhisattva vow. Because bodhisattva vows are gentle. So we don't rigidly hold to, I vow to do all the practices of Buddha. Be tender about this, I vow to do the practices of all Buddha.

[32:49]

I'm not saying go to the queen's birthday party and drink a lot of meat and chew a lot of alcohol. I'm saying, you know, part of the way you open to this is to be very tender about this. Practicing with everybody and letting everybody knock on your door and knocking on everybody's door, you know, be tender about that. Because one of the things it says also after all these vows, it says to do this moment after Interruption without becoming weary. Nothing is more intense than this practice of practicing together with everybody. That is the intensity of the universe, is what we're doing together. That's a bright light. We do that so we don't get pooped out, because it's easy to get pooped out with something so intense. There's some wisdom in feeling like, I'm not ready for this.

[33:52]

Another way to put it is, I don't know how to be gentle enough with this to open to it. The very grand thing is bodhisattva vow thing. It's a grand thing to practice wholeheartedly. It's grand to think about practicing wholeheartedly, which is to say, grand to think of being Buddha. It's grand. So we should be careful and gentle with this grand of the Buddha. Someone might say, I don't want to practice this practice of Buddha, I want to do just a little practice. You can do a little practice, but then do that little practice together with everybody. Make your little teeny tiny practice supporting all beings, and all beings supporting you, little teeny tiny practice. Then that little teeny tiny practice is Buddha's practice. Buddha can be tiny, tiny little meat, But this is together with everybody.

[34:56]

Tiny little me from other people is still deluded tiny little me. Okay, well, any questions about that? Okay, we'll see you later, Amy. Nobody wants to see me try to get down on the floor and get up again. Oh, is that what you think? I know. I have enough compassion already. We're all going to sit in the chair.

[36:01]

I came from a Zen world where enlightenment or Kensho was a big deal. I talked about it quite a bit. It seems to me that I knew a number of people who were helped by being told that they had had a Kensho, and some that were really not helped at all by being told that. And some people who seemed like they were really not being helped by being told that they didn't have an awakening. and some that were helped by being told that they didn't. Soto seems to be a very slippery term that's ever used.

[37:08]

I know some teachers will deny that it's a factor, but it's enlightenment. In Rinzai... Can I say something? Yes, please. He said, we talk about the Buddha's enlightenment. Okay? Put that in parentheses for later. Right. Yes. In Rinzai... There's certainly, the koans could be considered after enlightenment practice. Training in, you know, okay, now you've seen something, let's take a look at the aspect of it. How do you deal with it? In so-to, I don't know. But certainly, after six months, after 20 years, sometimes people have some sort of awakening that seems to be transformative.

[38:18]

Do you have anything to say about post-awakening practice? Or is it just... better to consider it a total continuum? Well, I think I've already talked about so-called post-awakening experience. I said that once you become free of your karma and once you see that your karma is light, of your karma, that's an awakening experience. And then you can continue to practice after that to bring that awakening into world-transforming practices. So bodhisattvas, many bodhisattvas are already awake, which you can call kencho experiences.

[39:23]

They've seen the true nature of things, but then they continue to practice after that. to save the world, which is inseparable from refining their awakening. Well, certainly we all know what it's like to be more or less in the shit over here. And we have heard notions about what it's like to be at the opposite end of where we are free of karma and we are dancing the dance of the Bodhisattvas and the Buddhas. Growing lotuses in the mud. Okay, right. But that seems, what you just said, sounds like We're towards this end of the continuum. You know?

[40:23]

You know what I mean? No, it's not way over at the end. It's right in the middle. Okay. It's in the middle of the continuum. It's the middle way. Beings who are not awakened can also make some positive contribution to the to the formation of the world that we live in. But after awakening, once you see the truth, you keep watching the truth while you're living with people. You keep watching that truth and watching that truth and watching that truth and that purifies your mind even further. When you're first awakened, your mind isn't completely pure. You're purified. You don't see perfectly in your first awakening.

[41:24]

But you keep looking at that truth which you awaken to, the ultimate truth of the emptiness of your karma. You keep doing that while you're still watching more karma. Cooking lunch, ringing bells, shaking hands, all these karmas are going, and now you understand what the practice is, and that purifies your understanding of what's going on, and you just keep doing it. And this deepens and deepens and deepens and deepens the realization. So, transforms, transforms, transforms the world. That's the way I describe it now. I can see some of that. Nevertheless, it sounds like it's all pleasant and positive. It's what? It sounds like it's all pleasant and positive.

[42:27]

No, no, no. Oh, great. This is groovy now. It's just getting better and better. No, it's all extreme happiness. It's extreme happiness. That's what it is. But it's happiness in caring for suffering people and feeling pain. These bodhisattvas, now more than ordinary people, when they see suffering beings, they feel pain because they love them. As you become more enlightened, it hurts you more to see suffering people than before. But that is a great happiness because you feel pain because you love them and you love them more deeply. So you feel more pain. But you also feel more happiness. So it's the greatest happiness to be enlightened and the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas feel the pain of more and more people.

[43:38]

It is... Compassion is happiness with pain in it. And most people who have some compassion feel that. They feel the happiness of caring and feeling pain. Once you're enlightened somewhat, you feel more of that. and you feel more joy, which then leads you to practice, for example, generosity. And that leads to more happiness. And then that leads to more opportunities to practice generosity, and so on. It just gets happier and happier and happier, and also more and more open to suffering. However, my experience has been that in addition to feeling the suffering of other beings sometimes, there are also feelings of, very painful feelings of inadequacy.

[44:53]

Both don't have feelings of inadequacy. because they don't think about themselves and what they can do. They don't see it that way. They don't think, oh, I can't do this, because they don't think they can do anything, because they're enlightened. As long as you think you can brush your teeth, you're inadequate to brushing the universe. Bodhisattvas don't think that way, so they don't feel inadequate. However, they do love people who think that they're inadequate. I'm glad. Me too. And they love people who think they're inadequate. But the people who think they're inadequate are people who think they can do something by themselves. And if you think you can do something by yourself, well, inadequate's an understatement. You cannot do anything by yourself. recognize that everybody is totally inadequate about doing something by themselves.

[46:06]

Bodhisattvas don't think about what they can do by themselves. They don't think that way. They think about doing things with everybody. That's what they think about. And they understand that too. Besides thinking that, they also... Then once they understand it, then they keep thinking that way because just their understanding itself is only one... change in the world. But their thinking is infinite moments of changing the world. After they understand, that's it. They're not ignorant. They're facing the facts of us working together. But then they keep cranking the karmic machine of thinking and thinking, let's do it together, let's do it together, let's do it. Hey, you want it together? Yes, I think I do. So, yeah. The mind that feels inadequate is a rooted mind, which the bodhisattva loves. And it's a pained mind. And the bodhisattva loves the pained mind of inadequacy.

[47:12]

Also, the bodhisattva loves the pained mind of, I can do it. I'm not inadequate. The bodhisattva loves that one, too. That's my grandson. I can do it. But also he sometimes says, I have another grandson who often says, I need help. He calls me Rev. I need help. Would you help me with this? I can't do this by myself. He says that. We were going into a lake and it had seaweed down there. And he said, I said, let's go in. He said, no, no, would you carry me? I can't. This is too much plant life for me. Slimey seaweed. He wasn't up for it. Anyway, adequate, inadequate, those are deluded thoughts. Bodhisattvas, don't get into them.

[48:14]

Because in fact, we can do whatever we're doing. And we can't... And we can't do it by ourselves. So adequacy and inadequacy don't really apply to our life. But the Bodhisattva's vow to work with all those who feel adequate and inadequate. And they also feel the pain when they're enlightened. I should say, when they're enlightened, they start to open up more. Because they still may have some little bit of resistance to some people's pain. There's some people which even young bodhisattvas are not open to. So then they confess, nah, it's too much for me. In other words, I can't love that person enough to open to their pain, or opening to their pain, I just can't stand it, so I'm not going to love them. Because if you're open to loving them, then you're open to the pain.

[49:16]

Are you opening it to the pain? I don't know. Opening it to plant life. So you want to go in the swamp? I'd rather be carried there. Okay. Fine. I guess I'm all right unless somebody has further questions about that question. Okay. He said he's all right unless you have further questions. So I have some confusion.

[50:59]

I've had some experiences with someone who doesn't claim to be a teacher, but someone who has written extensively about their meditative experiences. Can you hear her? So I've had some experiences with someone who doesn't claim to be a teacher, has written quite a bit about their meditative experiences and has talked about non-dual awareness in other states. And I've experienced this person in community acting very, very unethically in different ways. My question is in regards to what we're talking about. Is this something that maybe they've attained these states, but they just are not continuing to practice the realization that they are practicing together with others? Well, there's different possibilities. In one description of the path, there's a phase where you actually come to see the truth.

[52:08]

But prior to that, for some period of time, usually from the beginning of this time, actions have arisen which have been misunderstood. For a long time, actions has been rising with the support of everyone. And we thought all that time that we were doing it by ourself. So in other words, we have been acting deludedly to kind of seeing the truth, not just hearing about, but seeing the truth of how deluded we've been. But there's a consequence of all those actions. And one of the consequences are worlds, worlds that have been going on, plus worlds that are now happening after seeing the truth. Plus also another consequence is Actions which are dependent on those past actions which were diluted actions.

[53:14]

So actions are consequence of actions. States of feeling are consequence of actions. Not all actions and consequences of actions in terms of worlds, they're not all just due to action. But they are still. Just like a building isn't just built of bricks. and steel, water, and a lot of other stuff. But the world is constituted of karma, but karma is not the only thing that makes the world. And your actions are constituted of past actions, but that's not all that makes them, because pure consciousness makes them too. It's just that that's the focal point of our meditation. So again, You've been doing actions in a deluded way for a long time. Now you see the truth. But the consequences of all those past actions are still raining down upon you in the form of worlds where people are still trying to do the things you used to do.

[54:22]

They don't stop just because you got awake. Matter of fact, now they think that you really listen to them. Before, you wouldn't give me any time to even tell you how mean you were. But now you will, right? Well, maybe. But you still might have states of being closed as a result of past closed-in selfishness. So some people could have some deep insight and still have all these habits that haven't died away, that have been built up for a long time. So there is this phenomenon in the spiritual landscape of people who have been deluded and haven't seen the truth. Some people who have awakened but are now experiencing the consequences in terms of their own stories. Like they still might have stories that these people, you know, are my enemies or something, even though they woke up to the truth. And some kind of like physical reactions to things that they've been doing for a long time.

[55:26]

And that's part of the problem that people have with so-called people who've had some insights. Like Rajiv was saying, sometimes somebody had been told they had insight, and then the other people in the community see the unskillful thing. So then they maybe think, oh, since I heard the teacher said they had insight, that I guess what they're doing is okay. That's one of the problems. Or even they think, well, I've had insight, so what I'm doing is okay. Don't bother me, you know. So this is part of the confusion. So we should know that a person... and still do stupid things, still do unskillful things. So even if they're recognized, or even if we recognize that they have great insight, we still might say, you have great insight, but I think that was really unskillful. That seemed to really discourage people. You know, I'd like you to stop. I just really feel uncomfortable. Would you please stop that? And maybe while you're even saying or feeling, this person's really got good insight.

[56:32]

And also, they sometimes do good things, but this really seems to be bad. I might be wrong, but that's what I have to say, and that's what I'm requesting. One way to put it. And there's other twists and turns on that, which we go into probably indefinitely. But that gives you some sense? Yes, absolutely. And one more question. So in the vows, we say delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. In working with people doing counseling and that kind of thing, sometimes we tend to work with people to change their stories. So in a way I see that we're bringing awareness to their stories, which is a good thing, but in a way we're just helping them create more stories. Sometimes, yeah. And also this, I vowed to end them, that's one translation which

[57:36]

I'm not so comfortable. Translated would be I bow to reach the end of them. And at the end of them, you open to the truth. Another way, but the Chinese character there that's being translated as end them, it actually is a character which means to cut. And cut, you could cut like cut through, cut through the weeds. But another meaning of cut would be kind of, yeah, that you you cut free of them. I vow to become free of them rather than end them. Because, again, even if they're ended, still the bodhisattva goes right back into them. People know how to work with them, so you're not really ending them. You're just getting really skillful at studying them all the way to the end and seeing, you know, exhaustively studying them, seeing that they're empty, that there's nothing substantial there. are graspable about these delusions. So in telling people stories, you can tell them stories about actually how to study the delusions so they can reach the end of them.

[58:46]

But you might have to give them other stories to help them care for the stories. That might be part of the process. But you're working towards the thorough study, the thorough and gracious study of the story. And at the extreme graciousness and generosity towards the story, the story opens up and you see the light of the Buddhist face. And here the Dharma. And then more stories come, but now you ...lean more often, you see, here comes a story, oh, there's this emptiness, here comes a story, there's an emptiness. You've learned how to be thorough with the stories so you more quickly can be thorough with new stories. And part of thoroughness is that you're up, you're not leaning into them, not leaning away from them, and so on. Does that make sense? Three people are Ranigan, Nancy, and Al.

[60:05]

So you all three can come up whenever you want to. First of all, I wanted to say thank you very much for everybody's, especially . And it really helped me a lot. So thank you. And turning this way. I really appreciate that. I would like to know if there's a way to shed a little light on opening to the Buddhas or dedicating my actions to the Buddhas, a sort of a feeling of...

[61:12]

I can't say it's an openness, but it almost felt comforting. I would say it was comforting, this teaching about opening to the Buddhas. I find it very comforting, too. And I've heard of several billion other people that have found it comforting. Comforting is definitely part of it. When you make offerings to Buddhas, you feel comfortable. Not always, but when you get into it, you start to feel real comfortable and real happy. One, if you could shed some light on what's different here. I was raised Catholic, and in that tradition, I used to pray to the saints a lot. Yeah. And I used to spend every Good Friday in church getting a lot of people out of limbo with a lot of ejaculation, thousands of them, I would say, trying to save people.

[62:22]

So I, and I discarded or walked away or whatever on my Catholic tradition. I didn't feel comfortable in that anymore. I just would like you to share somehow how this is different How it's different? Let me see how it's different. Well, I don't know how it's different, actually. Because even within the so-called different people would pay homage to Buddhas in different ways. And within the Catholic tradition, different Catholics would pay homage to Jesus or God in different ways. So it isn't exactly that Buddhism is different from Christianity, but that there's a variety within Buddhism about how they do the practice and a variety within Christianity.

[63:28]

And sometimes the way some Christians are doing it is just like some Buddhists would do it. I think Christianity has, some of the practitioners of it are practicing a way to Buddhism. Some Christians are practicing with a very universal a very universal understanding of what they're doing, that they think they're doing it together with everyone. And some Christians think that their religion is separate from other religions, and they're not working together with other religions. And some Buddhists think that too. But what I'm suggesting to you is that my understanding of the teaching of some of the ancestors in this huge tradition called the Buddha Dharma are teaching that there's no independent of the other religions. There's no such thing. Even if the religion says they are and wants to be, they can't get away from the other religions.

[64:29]

He's deluded to think that you can have Catholicism operating independent of Buddhism. That's my understanding of the Buddhist teaching. But some Catholics understand that too. I don't know how many. Three? Six? I don't know. The Pope doesn't seem to understand that. But maybe he does. Maybe he's just being skillfully teasing everybody. But, you know, like some people say, all the religions are going to the same place and doing the same thing, especially Buddhism. So, and Suzuki Roshi said, Buddhism has religions like Catholicism, Judaism, and Buddhism. I've experimented with that several times.

[65:31]

What did you say? I wondered who you said. Suzuki Roshi said that. Oh. Suzuki Roshi said, Buddhism has religions like Catholicism, Judaism, and Buddhism. And I've experimented with making the list longer. And I've noticed that if I make the list shorter, people laugh more. If it gets too long, they can't remember what the first item on the list was. Then he said, Buddhism is when Buddhism goes beyond Buddhism, and Islam goes beyond Islam, and Judaism goes beyond Judaism, and Christianity goes beyond Christianity, and Protestantism goes beyond. When they go beyond themselves, that's what they're about. But that's what they're about, too. If they're about liberation from petty, enclosed versions of the world, that's what they're about.

[66:33]

But maybe someone would say, no, no, we're about like our own little camp, us separate from everybody else, our own little tribe. So some religions may be religions where they actually do think that it's just about a certain little tribe doing well and don't care, and the rest of the world too bad. Some people may, but still, even though they think that, that's not true. Nobody, no tribe is real. A tribe. That's just the deluded understanding of the tribe. So they say, no, it's just about us. We don't care about them. But that's not really true. That's not their true heart. And that's why they're unhappy when they feel that way. Anybody who's happy when they're just concerned with a little group. Maybe there is such a person. So I'll be interested to meet somebody who's concerned about a limited group, like, for example, themselves, and who's happy.

[67:38]

There's a strong element in Christianity that to be concerned about yourself to the exclusion of everybody else, or not including everybody else, is unhappiness. Like I said at the beginning, right, the Pope said, only through this friendship, and I just take away the this, and I would agree, only through friendship, and I would say with all beings, does the true life open up. I think that's a special thing among some Christians. I don't know if that's really what... I never met Jesus. I don't know if that really is where he was at. But some Christians, that's what they think. They think Christianity is about everybody.

[68:39]

And for those people, Christianity is a universal religion, and that's the Mahayana. So if you want to talk about differences, differences would be, I don't know what, How can there be differences, really, when we're all working together? So difference is really delusion. And if you're kind with differences, the delusion of difference turns into the light of Buddha's wisdom. Like the ego, if you're kind with it, it turns into Buddha. We don't have to get rid of it. Just take care of it. And little children who are very selfish and deluded, if you take care of them, they turn into Buddhists. That's my proposal to you. So now we have Nancy and Al, or Al and Nancy.

[69:44]

I really like your stories about your grandchildren, and I realize that one of the reasons is that I get to hear versions you know, how you could talk in a way that's informed by this teaching, you know, to kids colloquially playing games, you know, like moving it to other contexts, because I feel like there's this very slow project of understanding for me that involves taking different ways and getting a lot of languages for it. Um, so for instance, part of what I, I, um, you know, feel like I have at some level but I'm still working on incorporating is things that the English language doesn't accommodate very well and that you find ways of talking about. Like, you know, whereas we have an I and we have a we usually, and you think of an I as one person and a we as one plus one plus one.

[71:19]

version of being together with other people that really isn't captured by either word. And we'd usually have the option of, you know, I could use an active verb or a passive verb. I could say, I did this, or me, and that I feel like you're evoking a kind of action that's I call it action and I'm already stuck in the words because it's kind of in between or it's something outside of those categories and it's really tricky. So sometimes the danger for me is that I feel like something the way I'd get a geometry theorem, but that learning to wear it or, you know, figure out ways to live it so that it's part of my demeanor and part of my ongoing behavior seems really hard. So the thing that I've been coming back to especially is this taking responsibility when you're sort of not an I or a we.

[72:26]

And the place that I've reached that I'd love to hear anything you could say that would help maybe make it more vivid in more ways, how you might live this is on the one hand, it feels like there's the old I kind of responsibility. where I feel like I've done somebody wrong and I ought to apologize. And that kind of responsibility is linked to, like, my hands feeling bad and a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach and, you know, a set of thoughts about how I would apologize and whether I can do it in the right frame of mind and, you know, kind of checking in and all that feeling of... living in time and thinking in time about how to do this. And I'm trying to add into that, and everyone is with me, and the person I'm apologizing to is someone I'm part of, and they're part of me, and I'm trying to factor that in.

[73:33]

And then it seems like there's another kind of I mean, this is how me and I know this is artificial, but this is this is still the place I'm kind of caught that there's another being part of, you know, beginningless time and all kinds of things, you know. the holocaust slavery i'm thinking of bad things because it's usually the tough part is to that it feels um most transformative is to think of of things that i'd like to say i had nothing to do with and say no no you know i'm part of the whole that was involved in that too but it that one seems often you know so abstract and i can't decide I feel like I'm having trouble wearing this being responsible, you know, when it doesn't fit the old model of I'm responsible because I personally did something and I personally need to apologize.

[74:36]

And in a way, I'm trying to take both those, the kind of in-person I've got to apologize and the bigger one, and think about what responsibility feels like I guess I'm saying feeling because I'm trying to think about how do I move it away. Excuse me. Yeah, sure. I think when you're talking, the place I thought to start was, and again, we have this term, take responsibility. I think it's better to say accept. And in order to accept, I think the place I would suggest starting with is Observe what your response is moment by moment to whatever issue you're concerned with. So every time the word Holocaust comes up, you have a response. Every time the word slavery comes up, there's a response in you and me.

[75:43]

So I'm emphasizing right now, and I feel like it's maybe good in case you're bringing up, not missing the opportunity of noticing that no matter what you hear about, no matter what you see, you have the ability to respond and the ability is living. Don't miss that. Like when you were talking, I'm noticing things were happening to my hand in response to you. When I noticed that, I said, oh, that's my response to you. And when I noticed that response, there was a response to that. So I started to tune in to my responding to you while you were talking about responsibility. So that's one meditative response that people miss all the time. They miss that they're always responding that you have that ability, that you always respond to everything.

[76:48]

Every good thing that ever happens or you hear about, you respond to it. And we both respond every time we hear the word Holocaust. And so I'm saying, what is the response? And then again, what is the response? Accepting responsibility means accepting that and not just accepting, okay, I've got some kids. Accepting yes and then take care of it. Observe it and then watch the next one. So open up to that. Accept that you do have this ability and it's operating all day long. This is, again, part of moment-by-moment presence. The other thing is meditate on how your mind draws a line. You said that before. Meditate on how you don't feel responsible. And look at that and see and listen to teaching that your mind has just drawn that line.

[77:51]

And what am I trying to protect there? You know, of saying I'm not responsible for my kids. Okay, I am. Your kids. I want to put a line up there so I'm not responsible for your... I want to do... What am I trying... So those are two things that we can work on a lot. And that's part of, I think, accepting responsibility. And so we will... Wonderful... We have this wonderful responsibility that we respond to everything that happens. We have... That's great. Accept this wonderful thing about being alive. And then also notice how we want to limit it. We want to close in on it. We don't want it to open up real widely. We want to say, okay, okay, I admit it. I admit it. I'm human. I put up boundaries on my responsibility. And then watch what the response to that is. Keep in there.

[78:55]

This is called being intimate with your actions. Be intimate with your awareness of your response and your mind-setting limits. Those two ways of working with responsibility, I'd just like to start with that. This does wonders to work with these. Just a few moments of it. I haven't done it for a while. And then to learn that it's hard even to stay with that. That's my first response. That was a good response. I think you stopped me at the right place and that you got to the heart of the matter. And I guess that the awareness is not just cognitive, but responses of all sorts that I need to bring in. In my case, my hand was kind of tensing in response to your concern about this. I said, oh, that's my response to her, the way my hand was.

[79:57]

And I watched it, and it softened. It was softened, but in that case, it did. So you respond with body, speech, and mind. Every time somebody tells you something, your story shifts a little bit. Every interaction, every relationship is your story. Watch how your story keeps changing. And also watch how your physical postures and vocal utterances reflect it too. I'm going to sit upstream. All right. Thank you. That was a response. I wanted to thank you for encouraging me to stay for the retreat. I told Reb and Dr. Son that up until when I left for the talk on Friday night, I had no idea what was going on with it.

[81:01]

I envisioned Zen police guarding the bedrooms here and not being able to leave. And I wasn't sure after the first sitting if I was going to stay. But I'm fairly certain that I'll be here, God willing, or... Buddha willing, anyone willing, tomorrow? Let's finish. And I also want to thank each and every one of you for sharing your stories and your stories about practice. There's some things that really stood out to me. Your story yesterday about the 1960s and everyone wanting to be a Zen master. That was so powerful and moving to me, thinking when I first... looked at the scriptures and Zen books in the early 90s, the words just jumped off the page. It was truth. And I guess I thought of myself as a Buddhist in the same way that Jack Kerouac was, in that I would maybe meditate for half an hour, then go to the bar until 3 a.m. And 15 years have gone by, and I can honestly say for the first time that Buddhism is no longer something that's in a book.

[82:10]

It's an actual practice that really came alive. And one of my fears is that 15 years from now I could go back to another retreat not having practiced for that 15 years. And that scares me. Some comments yesterday that really kind of stuck with me and I think are part of the obstacles, and I promise we'll get to a question. It doesn't have to. It talked about when we haven't, at least my recollection, we haven't spoken much about attachment and impermanence, attachment outcomes and impermanence. And yesterday there were some comments about what do we do when we come back to work and we get off the country road onto the highway. And that's the part. Whether the highway is a work highway or a relationship highway, that scares me as well. And I think about when we're at work, it's really, well, we're in a competitive situation, everyone has a vested interest in us, and we need to take care of the affairs.

[83:21]

And Then you said yesterday, just sort of an offhand way of quoting one of the scriptures, renounce worldly affairs. Just kind of, you know, end of story, there you were. And we went on. Taking it back to Christianity real briefly, there's the saying that it's easier. The eye of a needle for a rich man to enter heaven. So I think about my worldly affairs and things I've accumulated and I own a business and have about 15 people that are, I can look at it, either work for me or I work for them, whichever, whichever way you look at that, but I am responsible. And by the same token, In many ways, I've allowed that to become an obstacle for... It's kind of that delusion of, well, if I wasn't doing this, then I'd be doing that. But he showed me that everybody who wants to do that can't do that. So it's somewhere between... um you know alcohol abuse and promiscuity and being a zen priest we're all probably are somewhere except yourself of course who's a priest we're all somewhere in there and how how do you live in the world world how do you it it's kind of like how can you be in the world and not of the world

[84:46]

kind of how do you keep the momentum going? Because it all makes perfect sense when we sit in the Dharma talk. It makes less sense when I'm sitting in meditation and my mind starts wandering toward that situation, that person. Well, the scripture I quoted was the one we chanted at the beginning. And it says, when you hear the true Dharma, you will renounce worldly affairs. So what really helps is to hear the true Dharma. Before that, renouncing worldly affairs like, for example, being competitive. It's kind of hard to renounce it before you see the truth. So that's why we want to see the truth. So I vow to hear the true Dharma, to see the true Dharma. Then I will be able to renounce worldly affairs. And worldly affairs, you say attachments. That's worldly affairs. If you go to the grocery store without attachment, it's not a worldly affair.

[85:51]

You're going there to practice giving. Practicing giving is not a worldly affair. Practicing giving liberates worlds. Practicing giving, practicing patience, practicing bodhisattva precepts, practicing enthusiasm and concentration, practicing wisdom, these are not worldly affairs. Worldly affairs are greed, hate, and delusion. Our attachment. Worldly affairs are the things you do by yourself. Whatever you do by yourself is a worldly affair. If you go to the grocery store by yourself, it's a worldly affair. If you sit Zazen by yourself, it's a worldly affair. Okay? That's what I'm saying. When you hear the true Dharma, you don't think that way, but then you just chuckle. or you just confess. But you don't really fall into it anymore. You renounce it. You say, oh, me doing it by myself, I renounce that.

[86:54]

I give it up. Or, if I do fall into it, then I practice confession. The text says, I vow to hear the true dharma because after I hear it, it will be easy for me not to think I'm doing things by myself anymore. So then I can go to the grocery store and go to work not thinking I'm doing it by myself. I can go to work for my workers, for my employees. And they're serving me. That's the way I see it. So I renounce the worldly affair of I'm going to do this. I'm the boss. I'm the employee. Everybody's responsible. I see that now. So then I renounce worldly affairs. Then it says, however, although our past evil karma is greatly accumulated, may all Buddhas and ancestors be compassionate to us and free us from this habit of worldly affairs, which makes it hard for us to hear the true Dharma.

[87:55]

So if we're still thinking in this true Dharma, there's a practice of confessing and asking the Buddhists to help us. Because we're asking them to help us because we're asking them to help us realize they're helping us. Please help me realize that I'm not doing this by myself. Please help me realize that I'm not working in my office by myself. Please help me see that I'm not in competition with my employees. Please help me see that. I want to understand that. But I have a long habit of thinking that I am in competition So please be compassionate to me and help me become free of this long-standing habit of being in competition with the other Zen students. Competition with the other Zen priests. You know? Zen priests in competition with each other. Right? Can that happen? Well, if it can happen in your office,

[88:58]

then it can happen in this temple. Zen priests can think they're in competition with each other. At Green Gulch, Zen priests can think they're in competition with each other. Who gets to be the such and such? They asked her before me. Oh, no. People think that sometimes in Zen temples. Got promoted before somebody else. So we practice confession and repentance and ask the Buddhas to help us get over thinking that they're not helping us. So when you go back to work, you may slip back into, I'm doing this by myself. Then you confess that. Confess it. And you confess it. And confess it with the people who you don't think are there. Practice it with the Buddhas who you don't think are there. Invite them to come and teach you a thing or two. Please come and show me that you're actually here, because I don't think you are.

[90:01]

Give them a chance. The part that was when Mark was speaking yesterday, you're talking about throwing another ball, throwing another ball. But to me, the right response sometimes is to hand the ball back. And I think with all the work stories, there's this thought of if I don't do this or if I do this incorrectly, I'll lose this business. I'll get fired. I'll lose my job. Fear of the consequence instead of, you know, you said when there's fear or anger, then you're not, the light closes off and you can't respond. Yeah, well, that's true. That's true. But again, that's from the point of view of I do this. If we do this and we lose the job, it's different. It's not so scary. If we're all together in doing this thing that will cause us to lose the job, it's not so bad because we're all together, including the people involved. who got the job, you know, including the other company that got the thing, including the people who fired you. You might get fired. In some sense, we are going to get fired pretty soon from this life. You know? In some sense, it's like, you're fired, Al.

[91:04]

You're out of here. Ready to go? Yeah. No more Al. Get fired from this world. I don't know what one you come to next. But if you do it together with everybody, it's called nirvana. People, even if you don't get fired, you're still going to be afraid that you're going to get fired. You didn't get fired now, but one false move and you're fired. One false move and nobody wants to do business with you anymore. Or one right move and then you have so much business you're crazy. Nobody's calling me, oh yikes. Everybody's calling me, yikes. But isn't that attachment to outcome? It is. It is attachment outcome. Attachment outcome is the same thing as you're doing it by yourself. When you're not doing things by yourself, you do it by yourself. If you're on a football team, okay, and you think you're just doing it with this 11 guys or whatever, you're attached to outcome.

[92:11]

But if you're doing it with the other team and all the fans for the other team and all the fans from your team, if you're doing it all together, It's called bodhisattva social club. It's happiness. There's no problem. Except the only problem is that some people are not on board with what we're doing altogether. But if you see it, there's no attachment to outcome. But if you limit who you're working with, then you get attached to outcomes. Even if you just limit yourself to the people in Pittsburgh, you start to root for Pittsburgh's football team as opposed to Philadelphia. And the name of that team would be? Huh? The name of Philadelphia's team? Well, I was thinking Pittsburgh. It's called the Stillers, right? I learned that pronunciation.

[93:15]

The Stillers. But in San Francisco, it's the Steelers. I know. In San Francisco, it's the Steelers, too. But in Pittsburgh, they say Steelers. Aren't they strange? It's strange. Plenty of opportunity for delusion on every Sunday here. What Al said made me want to share something as well, something I've been thinking about a lot. I've been practicing for about 15 years. We probably started reading the same books like almost everybody else, Three Pillars of Zen or Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, all that stuff. And I've moved around a lot and fallen off the cushion a lot over those years and gotten back on.

[94:19]

Once I moved to Pittsburgh, though, that was, I forget when, but then I met Stillpoint. I've been on the cushion ever since. Thank you. And then I moved to State College, and I'm practicing with a group there. But my practice has been crappy for years. Let me talk a little bit about this and what that actually means. But I've had a very difficult time with my practice for many years, four years or so. But I've stayed on the cushion. I didn't really even think about that until I was here. And I'm thinking again, oh, God, time to get on the cushion. And then I'm thinking, oh, I've been doing this. I keep going to college and keep getting on the cushion as much as I don't want to. And what the hell? I signed up for a five-day retreat? I paid good money for this? And... And this summer, I had a Buddhist wedding and Catherine officiated and, you know, I had to do a lot of work to pull that off.

[95:23]

And I thought, this must be really important to me. And it struck me here that, you know, I'm going to lose it. I made a promise, you know, for Don and with Barbara, with Mark. to live the life of a bodhisattva. And that's it. That keeps me coming back. I have a picture on my fridge. And when you mentioned going to the bar, I started laughing. And I think I've shown... I think I might have shown Don this. This is years ago. I was picking up all the zabutans and zafas to take them to a retreat. Maybe here, even. And... And I loaded up the van and I had all these Zafus and everything piled up high. And then I started to laugh because half the van is Zafus and the other half was six cases of empty beer bottles that had to go back to the distributor.

[96:29]

And so I had to get the camera. I had to take it. And I still have that on my fridge. Can you send me a copy? Okay. I led the same... I would go sit with Stillpoint. I was in the music business. That's what you do. You know, I'd sit and I'd have a gig. And, you know, it's one of the few jobs where you're supposed to work drunk. You know? But then, you know, still come back and still sit. And, you know, propped up by... So... I was looking at the list of people who are... Can you hear her?

[97:30]

I was looking at the list of where everyone is in their rooms and stuff, and I was looking to see who's here and who's left. Do I know the person who left? And I was... I looked over and I saw Reb. Reb? listed there and then it said after that aka al and i was wondering did you write that i didn't i don't know i'm just i guess i'm wondering if you can comment on even though you didn't write it yeah can i comment on it even though i didn't write it yeah I think it might refer to an earlier conversation where you almost said, I'm Al. It was Friday night. It was Friday night. I think it was Friday night. I said I was Al. So somebody heard that, and somebody wrote A-K-A-L.

[98:36]

But it wasn't me, but there were people. Since I told them I was Al, they wanted people to know that that wasn't one of my aliases. I guess that's what happened. That's a story anyway. I was honored. I have a story about this morning's zazen. Shoto opened the doors and she sat outside and there was a bird that was far away but like Mark I'm a musician so I could hear its song and I could hear the different pitches and I thought that's really interesting but and when Shoto sat outside

[99:43]

the bird got closer until it was right outside the doors. And it had this beautiful song. And I could hear Shoto blowing her nose also. But the sense I got was the bird came over when she made the decision to sit outside. And it was very beautiful because the sun wasn't up yet. It was still dark out and We were greeting the dawn, and Shota was greeting the dawn, and the bird was greeting all of us. And then some guy got out a weed whacker and started, you know, right after the bird. But the thing was, to me, it was Shota was practicing with everything. We were practicing with everything. The bird was practicing with us, and we were practicing with the weed whacker, and then the machine. So I just would like to thank Shoto for that gift this morning.

[100:45]

I just wanted to say that I was sitting next to Eric and I didn't hear the bird or Shoto blowing her nose but I did hear the weed whacker and then I heard him laugh and I wondered what was so funny. And he just made me realize I missed the bird and shoto blowing and that it was part of the whole practice. I guess that's it. I was thinking of what Renigan was talking about with Catholic saints and Buddhas.

[102:22]

And it kind of gives me a bit of a problem as well. Because even though I wasn't raised Catholic, I went to a Catholic school for a while. and I'm familiar with all those saints, I guess, like around here, you know, they're all over the place, and it's like, so you, you know, pray to all the saints, and this saint's good for this, and that one's good for that, and it's like, you know, and it's sort of like a whole list of bodhisattvas, this one's good for this, and that one's good for that, and it, it doesn't quite, something doesn't quite work, um, for me because I don't think of, as you're talking about sort of causality and, you know, we're the result of all these infinite number of . I think of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as kind of the infinite number of causes.

[103:29]

and that they're all working together to make us and make all this. And so whenever anything happens, it's a combination of all kinds of little causes that get put together. And so that's the only way I can sort of translate Buddhas into something that makes sense to me that's not an ideology. So I think of all the infinite causes that are all working together to create this world. And that we're kind of a result of all of those causes, including our own causes and our own delusions. That... So... To me it's a terminology thing, but somehow I think I'm saying the same thing, or is it similar?

[104:35]

Well, the response that comes up in me is that, you know, The Dharma is, the Buddha's teaching basically is, in some sense, in a strict and kind of technical way, but also in an essential way, it's a teaching about no-self and causation. It's not just about no-self, it's also a teaching about causation. And understanding the relationship between no-self and causation is understanding the Dharma and let's liberate him. Human beings live in, you know, a realm which this causation applies to, and this thing about Buddhas and Bodhisattvas is a way to, I think is a way to work with causation.

[105:41]

It's a way to, it's a causal opportunity that puts us in a state such that we can understand. It's a warm-up to reality. And to pray to saints to get some purpose, for some purpose, that also could be a warm-up to reality. Like people are interested in getting something. So then give them some saint, you know, to meditate on or pray to so that they can... mixed in with their trips. And then gradually get them to give more saints to come in there until finally there's so many saints in there that they can't even remember what their trip was. And they finally realize, oh, my trip's really not my trip. There's no trip. And the causation of my trauma, it's together with everybody.

[106:44]

So sometimes it's helpful, but not everybody understands that praying to saints and praying to bodhisattvas and thinking of bodhisattvas and thinking of Buddhas and opening our mind this way, people might think that it's for various purposes, but just to become wholehearted. It's not to get anything. It's to become completely what we are. It's to realize what total life is. And usually our thinking is confining us and... That's our usual situation. So how do we send messages into the little box where we live and start filling it with bodhisattvas and Buddhas to basically explode it, to open it up? That's a causal thing, to open us to causation. We live in a little version. moment by moment, another tiny little version, another tiny little version, a story about a big thing or a little thing.

[107:51]

But it's always a tiny little thing. Today could be called Tuesday. We can call it Tuesday. And in a sense, it is Tuesday. And it's Tuesday in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We can say that. And really, it kind of is. But each of us has a story about what Tuesday in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is. And none of us have a story which includes everybody else's story of what Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is. And yet we live in the same world where we have a story which has similar titles. But Tuesday in Pittsburgh, which it really kind of is Tuesday in Pittsburgh, but Tuesday in Pittsburgh is not my story of Tuesday in Pittsburgh. I say, well, there's some clouds in the sky and colors are changing. If I put that in my story, that's still my story of the colors changing is not the colors changing. My story of the clouds in Tuesday is not Tuesday.

[108:55]

Tuesday is a little bit bigger deal than my story of Tuesday. It's not that there's no Tuesday. It's just that I live in a little story of Tuesday. And it's not that there's no retreat here. It's just the retreat's a little bit bigger than all of our stories of this retreat. This retreat is the universe realized in every particle of it. But we have stories of it. So it's kind of like open your story and let all the bodhisattvas in and let all the Buddhas in and work with them. And work in an appropriate way. For example, don't you really kind of respect perfect enlightenment? Don't you respect infinite compassion and wisdom? Well then, yeah, well then do. And don't you want to make offerings of your practice to the Buddhas to let them know, hey, I just happen to be doing the practice you suggested. Don't you want to do that?

[109:56]

Don't you want to actually tell what you're up to? Don't you want to really rejoice in the goodness of other people? Don't you want to actually hear the Buddhist teaching? Don't you want to do this stuff? Don't you want to let that into your life and then let all the people who are doing it into your life? Don't you want to? Well, maybe you do, maybe you don't. Anyway, I'm trying to encourage you. Open up the story. And no matter how much you get in there, that's still not going to be it. But you get enough in there, it'll blow the story apart in a very beautiful and wholesome way. And you'll open on to realizing, actually, there are infinite Buddhas and stuff like that, but they aren't the story I had, even. And there also are just like Tuesday, Wednesday. But now I see the reality of Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. So now I'm going to dive back into the little box again with the other people and show them how to blow it up. And get Catholics in there too. And get all our history with problems with that stuff in there too.

[110:59]

In there. Open it up. Nothing. Let it all in. And then how do you practice with it? The instruction is be generous towards it. Be patient with it. Be gentle and tender and harmonious and peaceful. There's no instruction to be mean and hate it. There's no instruction to grab anything. No, no. There's just be balanced and tender and generous and loving and patient. And when you can't do that, be honest and confess it and repent in the presence of everybody that you invite. But particularly the Buddhas, because they can handle no matter what you do, you can tell them and they'll be fine to hear it. The other people, you don't have to tell them, just harmonize with them and accommodate to them. And then not only do that, but promise to continue to do it and promise to do it constantly. Promise to do it in a way that you don't get tired.

[112:02]

Promise that, and that makes the situation more and more alive until finally cognitive karmic enclosure doesn't work anymore. It's just a tool to help people after that. So then you use it. You dive back in. Say, here we are. Ooh, it's tight and painful in here, but I love you, so I'm happy to be here. That's my response to what you said. Woof. Did you say woof? I would say after that, I do have kind of a question or a little practice that I was doing, which was... A little practice? Yeah. There was a little practice happening? I don't know if it was happening.

[113:05]

You experienced something? No, there's a little practice of billiard balls. Yeah? Yeah. And I was looking at the billiard balls, and I got a story about billiard balls. Yeah. All right. And so the billiard ball hits another billiard ball. And that's my story. The billiard balls are on a table. But inside the billiard ball is the material that the billiard ball is made out of. And they're not saying that they're a billiard ball. They're saying they're inside the billiard ball. And so one billiard ball, you know, hits. According to the story. In the story, yeah. In your story. Yeah, in my story. Not the billiard ball story. Not the billiard ball story. Not the particles inside the billiard ball story. Exactly. Not the Buddhas inside the particles. That was the thing. It's like, you know, where is sort of everything disappeared because my story was not their story. The end is in your mind.

[114:06]

That's where the end is. There's no end except in your mind. And that's what was happening. And kind of like I realized that in order for my story to actually happen, all those little things going on also had to happen, including the table and the felt and the people who made it and the building and the grass and the world and everything else. And it was like, whoa. So that was my little practice. That's fine. Welcome. Welcome. Your practice is welcome. But it was kind of like, oh, anyway. Sorry. You're sorry? I saw a movie one time. I can't remember anything else in the movie, but the thing I remembered is, sorry, I'm sorry is a way to get the last word in a conversation. Oh. You could still get it.

[115:14]

Katherine, yes? First word. I'm sorry. Okay. Well, I'd like to say something in order to... Let's see.

[116:15]

I'd like to find some relief from some difficulty I'm having, and I hope it... will relieve me of the difficulty, but I am hoping that I'm expressing it in a way that in no way allows me to try to control the outcome or encourages anyone else to try to control the outcome of this consequence of this experience. But in the hope that maybe I'm not the only one having this particular difficulty, I thought it might be beneficial to express it. So we have a couple more opportunities of chanting English, the self-receiving and employing samadhi, and the ehi koso ho, if we chant that tomorrow. And I'm having difficulty chanting these chants because I can't enter the chant when we go as fast as we're going. So I stop, and I feel sad to stop chanting.

[117:21]

I mean, I'm observing that I start, and then I'm observing where I really just cannot put my mouth around the words when we're going that fast, and that I want to be able to have a long breath and extended... and hear the words and experience the words and not be going fast, fast, fast. And this happens at Green Gulch too. This is not like just this body. Sometimes it happens that the body is going so fast and this body can't really enter the chant when it's like that. feel kind of apart and separate and like I'm not practicing with everybody because I'm cut out because I can't go that fast. So I have observed that I'm now trying to just peacefully stop chanting and hear it. And that helps. But anyway, not completely.

[118:24]

And I saw that it was coming up that I wanted to take the opportunity to express my discomfort about that. That's all I need to say, but I'm happy to hear any response if you have one. I hear you. Thank you. If someone else wants to come up here. I just wanted to say that I had the same experience yesterday. It was just too fast for me. There was no way that I could keep up with it. But the mokugyo wasn't going, also. And so it wasn't very even. I think my people were just trying to go as fast as they could, which seems to fit the Japanese tense, but with their rhythmic coordination. As some of you may know, I normally, most of the retreats I've attended have been with the Thich Nhat Hanh's tradition, and they do everything very slowly, so I just

[119:59]

This tradition did everything quickly, including, I think, probably one of my biggest difficulties. Well, no, we won't put it that way. One of the difficulties I've run into at a retreat. ...is eating. It seems like everybody eats really quickly, and in especially Thich Nhat Hanh's tradition, you're taught or encouraged to eat very slowly. I am kind of surprised at Catherine saying that the chant was going too quickly because I thought that's the way y'all wanted it. But I'm cool. I just wanted to say that I practice with Tibetan Buddhist groups and when they do chanting, they go horrifically fast.

[121:35]

And when I first started Zen groups a bit, the chanting was so slow. And to hear Catherine say, it's too fast, I was like, wow. Because I remember that when I was practicing with the Tibetan groups, and if they hear that everyone's keeping up, it seems like the next time you do the chant with them, they go a little bit faster. And it's like, I finally caught up, and you're going faster. But this time... I've been really enjoying the chants, even though they feel too slow to me. I just wanted to share that. That completed the picture. May our intention equally extend to the end place.

[122:43]

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