Someone asked me recently, what's no birth and no death? And I said, happiness, peace. But what a strange tradition. Strange tradition concerned with no birth and no death in a world of birth and death. There are no birth and no death happiness in the world of birth and death. it's not so surprising maybe that this is a tradition of unceasing effort to free all beings so they may live in peace.

[01:14]

That doesn't surprise you, does it? But also in this tradition, by definition, this peace is no birth and no death. The birthlessness and deathlessness is defined as peace in the tradition. Pretty much broad agreement on that. But the tradition is an effort, an unceasing effort to help others enter into a dwelling in peace. It's not just the peace. It's the effort to help others enter into that peace. The thing about this particular school of Zen is that the term Zazen is used as basically, it's often used basically as equivalent to, to what?

[02:39]

Yeah, right, who said that? The young guy there. Did you know that, Fred? that Zazen was used as a kind of equivalent, you know, a synonym for enlightenment. The good thing we have is now you do. So we use this term Zazen. And I've forgotten my... Would you remind me? I have this big piece of chalk I've been looking forward to using. He with a circle is enlightenment. Zazen in this school is taught enlightenment, not just any old enlightenment.

[03:43]

but the culmination of enlightenment. There are a variety of enlightenments. For example, a person can be enlightened and enter a state of bliss, a state of peace. It is more than just one person entering it. It's the total culmination of enlightenment. The Zazen that we speak of is not Dhyana concentration. It is simply the Dharmagate of peace and bliss. Zazen is the Dharmagate of birthlessness and deathlessness. totally enlightenment. Tracks and snares can never reach it. We use zazen that way in school.

[04:50]

And then we also have expression of ceremony of zazen. It's such a nice blackboard. There's some larger chalk nearby, if you know. This is fine. But I do want to use my big, my jumbo, my jumbo chalk. Got it from, given to me by Toyota, I believe. And I proposed to you that the Buddha way, the Buddha way is not enlightenment.

[05:59]

although it has something to do with it. The Buddha way is something that's realized when we express through our life the enlightenment, when we practice every action as a ceremony to realize this enlightenment. That's the Buddha way. This zazen, which is enlightenment,

[07:03]

And this Zazen, which is enlightenment, is the same as the practice of the Buddha way. It's the same thing. The Buddha way is the practice of enlightenment. And this practice is a group practice. This enlightenment is a group enlightenment, a communal enlightenment. Enlightenment. The ceremony of Zazen can be approached.

[08:29]

It is also the practice of enlightenment. The ceremony of Zazen is also the practice of enlightenment. It can be approached as done by an individual. This can be seen as individual. And you can practice this ceremony for a more or less infinite variety of reasons or intentions. And I think I approached, I think, this practice, the ceremony of... Although nobody used the word ceremony, I didn't think of it as a ceremony, but I thought of it, I guess, as a form, but not a ceremony.

[09:35]

A form of training why I would become the kind of person I wanted to become. And it seems perfectly wholesome and you know, really good for us, for me, and for you to approach the practice of sitting meditation for the purpose of becoming a better person, a person like a bodhisattva, for example. So I heard stories about people who looking back, I think they maybe were bodhisattvas, And then I heard that the bodhisattvas did this ceremony, so I thought maybe if I did this ceremony, I would become like those bodhisattvas. And sure enough, I did come and do the ceremony.

[10:44]

I had to arrange my schedule, but I managed to come. someone could also think that the ceremony was, not think of it as a ceremony, but a exercise or a discipline, but not necessarily a ceremonial discipline, but a discipline whereby you can become concentrated. And in fact, in this discipline, part of what happens when you really get into it, the ceremony, when you really distracted in the performance of the ceremony, one does become concentrated often. Maybe you've heard about that. If you sit upright on your cushion and sort of just give up everything, just sitting, give up all the discursive thought for some period of time, and sit there nice and relaxed and alert,

[11:48]

you become concentrated in the ceremony. But some people could think it's not a ceremony, I'm just doing that to get concentrated. The person in that case wouldn't think of it as a ceremony probably, they'd think of it as a thing I do to get this. And some people think of ceremonies as a thing you do to get something. But some people think of doing it not as a ceremony, they just think of it as an activity to accomplish a goal, but they don't call it a ceremony. There are different ways of using these words, right? Let's see.

[12:55]

And in the realm in which we practice the ceremony, we, at least I, can tell stories about the ceremony of Zazen. And I tell the story to you that I tell stories about the ceremony of Zazen. So, I tell stories. We could shorten that to story. And in the realm of stories where I tell stories about the ceremony of Zazen, I also tell stories about enlightenment. I told you some this morning. I tell you a story that the actual enlightenment of the Buddhas, which we call Zazen, is the practice of a group.

[14:08]

It's actually the practice of a very large group. It's a practice of an inclusive group of beings. So I'm telling you a story about the practice of all beings. This zazen is the practice of all beings, not just the group in this intensive. The group in this intensive is a ceremonial group of whatever number of people there is. And we're performing a ceremony, the Zazen of all beings. This Zazen is the same practice and the same enlightenment as us and all beings. Or you can just not mention us and just say, this Zazen, which is totally culminated in enlightenment, is...

[15:19]

It is the practice of all beings. It is the enlightenment of all beings. It is the same practice and same enlightenment as all beings. That's the satsang. Big, very large, extensive social enlightenment. This zazen is unconstructed. This zazen, which is the enlightenment of all beings, is unconstructedness in stillness. Unfabricatedness in stillness or unfabricated. That's totally culminated enlightenment. I'm telling you a story about that right now. This practice of all beings right now is going on.

[16:24]

And I could say, well, going on quite well. I could say, it could go on better. I could say whatever I want, and so can you. You can even say it's not going on. Whatever you feel, those stories, live it up. But This Zazen, which is the practice of all beings and the enlightenment of all beings, is unconstructed. There's no stories. It is not a story. It is stories are practicing together and becoming free of their stories. That's this Zazen. To realize this is the mission of this school. The ceremony is necessary in order for the realization.

[17:31]

The activities in the realms of story must be devoted ...instructed unstoried realm in order to realize the unstoried in the storied. It's in the storied realm where beings are in various degrees of trouble and suffering. No one here can care and understand me or what hard luck stories they all hand me. Make my bed and light the light. I'll arrive late tonight. Bye-bye, blackbird. In this realm is where Zazen ceremony is performed. We here in this room are now, have this great opportunity together to enact a group practice of the Buddha way.

[18:39]

a ceremony to celebrate the practice of all beings. And thereby, although this is a story about Zazen that we're doing, yes, I could say ceremony of Zazen or story of Zazen. We must have the story of Zazen in order to realize Zazen. We do have a story of Zazen. We must put Zazen, which is unconstructed and is not temporal, into time in order to realize Zazen in the realm of time, in the realm of birth and death. At noon service we chanted yesterday

[19:46]

and probably today and the day before, this self-receiving and employing samadhi by this young monk named Drona. And it says, it talks about what it's like in this group practice where the birds and the bees and the trees and the rocks and the Buddhas and the enlightened beings and unenlightened beings and beings and Various states of misery are resonating with each other and teaching each other, emanating their enlightened activity which enlightens others and it bounces back to them. Where you unroll widely inside and outside of the entire universe, the endless, unremitting, unthinkable, unnameable buddha-dharma, that place, that realm, zazen. That's the realm of the self-fulfilling awareness. That's the realm of group practice.

[20:52]

All this, however, does not appear within perception. The realm of the ceremony of satsang is the realm of perception. And the realm of perception is the place where we practice the story. The realm of perception realizes the realm which isn't perception. But what is it? And I would just propose to you some Sanskrit words which I haven't... This isn't clearly... in a systematic way, but I'm ready to connect it to Sanskrit now and say that over this side is the realm of jnana. And this is the realm of vijnana.

[21:58]

I'm not sure where the long mark goes. Jnana and vijnana, they both have this nya in them. which is related to the Indo-Iranian, Indo-European root, nya, which is in Njoljit, to know. This jnana is ordinary discriminating consciousness of a living being. A jnana is the word that's usually used for knowledge. I would kind of say, the English words don't work very well, but anyway, that the group practice is the knowledge of the Buddhas, and the jnana is the consciousness of sentient beings. So the Buddhas, but even the Buddhas,

[23:10]

Even the Buddhists cannot understand, do not have this understanding or this knowledge, which is the totally culminated enlightenment. Only Buddhists together with Buddhists. And, of course, Buddhists together with sentient beings. So, Buddhas do not by themselves realize Zazen, which is enlightenment, which is unconstructedness and stillness. Buddhas also realize it communally. Sentient beings who have discriminating consciousness, vijnana, they also cannot understand this.

[24:14]

They can realize it by practicing the ceremony of sasana. They can realize the group jnana, the group knowledge, the social knowledge, which is enlightenment. They can practice in groups with stories, with stories of practicing in groups celebrating and enacting a practice which is not in groups, but which is the practice of the social being, the great social being.

[25:19]

So again, this is a story coming from vidjnana, coming from a place which could be analyzed into a vidjnana, a bunch of material phenomena, feelings, perceptions, and innumerable, multiple mental factors and stories. Such a being could be seen as a psychophysical personality. which can be, for example, telling stories about enlightenment and doing ceremonies to express and enact and realize and manifest enlightenment.

[26:32]

And for me, in the use of the ceremony in the Buddhadharma is activity which is understood as empty. You can practice these ceremonies understanding this, but still you can also hear about this right from early times, that these ceremonies are empty, empty forms that we devote ourselves to in order to realize the emptiness of all forms. So these are empty forms that we use to realize the emptiness of our stories. Realizing the emptiness of our stories can be a door into the practice, into the social practice of enlightenment, or the social practice which is enlightenment.

[27:43]

and I proposed before to some of you, and I'll say again now to newcomers, we understand that the various appearances which comprise our existence are empty and we understand that all forms and ceremonies are empty, all forms we do from such an understanding is a ceremony which realizes emptiness in the form of the ceremony. If you do not understand that, the ceremonies wholeheartedly, you will understand it. You will understand that the ceremony is empty. And you will understand the practice of all beings.

[28:57]

But it's hard for us to be wholehearted and it's hard for us to do things so thoroughly that we realize their emptiness. And because of that, what we call our default position is that things are substantial and non-empty. We've heard that there's no non-empty things, but we have a deep... That instruction is for us specifically because of our tendency to think of things as non-empty. So it's hard for us. When we think things are non-empty, it's hard for us to do something wholeheartedly. And it's hard for us when we think that things are non-empty to open to their emptiness. It's scary. But the first two days of the practice period, I had quite a bit of sitting, and someone told me that he was having a bumpy ride the first couple of days, and I thought, yeah, it's good.

[30:25]

Getting settled here, kind of get your sea legs. And then now we can have a class. Maybe we can talk about this kind of difficult topic. And maybe, since you've already settled down, you can handle this more difficult, this kind of difficult material. Understanding emptiness helps us be wholehearted. When we're wholehearted, we dare to understand emptiness. Would you like to offer something?

[32:33]

Please come up. During the practice period, you were talking about this, and I came up and I said that and people disagreed with me that some things were ceremonies, some things weren't. And I was seeing all of this as various kinds of ceremonies, rain falling on grass being a ceremony of rain falling on grass, and that whole thing as being a ceremony. You're talking now a sense of intention is there in terms of ceremony. So rain falling on grass is an activity that we sort of visualize, but is there a difference between that event and you're referring to here in our stories?

[33:44]

I appreciate that framing. I would say that for beings like us, human beings, and other living beings who have intention, intention is one of the consequences is a kind of obstruction of the truth or a kind of appearance of some solidity in things. So for beings that have intention, the ceremony needs to engage the intention. And strictly speaking, rain is not a sentient being because rain, as far as we know, does not have the intention to fall. Therefore, rain, as far as I know, has no obstruction to emptiness. the rain and the emptiness are like totally at peace as far as I know.

[34:52]

And the way the rain works with gravity of the earth, suffering there for the rain. But beings that have intention, beings that tell stories, sentient beings, they need to line their intention up as wholehearted performance of the way. Otherwise their intention tends to just be uncoordinated with the way and continually leading to obstruction. So I I think that when we're performing ceremonies, maybe we feel like the rain is joining us, because it is. But strictly speaking, the rain, I don't see the rain as performing the ceremony, but maybe the rain, you know, with someone who has intention.

[36:03]

So the ceremonies have to do with intention? I think so, yeah. With stories about a realm that's beyond intention. Intention, our mind's construction in a given moment could be called its intention. So awareness itself is not a construction. But vijnana comes with construction is intention or story. The story needs to line up with wholehearted performance of the way, which requires mindfulness, et cetera, patience, diligence, generosity, concentration, and becomes wisdom. And the ceremony, I'm sort of seeing a, you know, starting out, like learning how to do the various things we're doing, they're really difficult.

[37:20]

You know, I think of them very solidly, but then as we proceed, they just become part of the process. And so the whole thing seems to be, to me, a ceremony. Say, for example, cheating or something like that. Taking care of the altars. The whole thing. But it becomes less of an individual set of entities. And then it just kind of becomes a process. Does that make any sense? Yeah. That makes sense as a happy story. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. It seems to me that it's possible that in the realm of... The ceremonies in the realm, in the story realm, that are devoted to the unstoried realm, the realization of the unstoried realm, could be ceremonies other than ceremonies that we would recognize as Zazen or Zen or Buddhism or...

[38:39]

Do you agree with that? Yeah, I would agree that they might look other than those things you're mentioning. And still be the kind of ceremonies that realize the unstoried realm. Yes. There are eight million stories in the Naked City. I'm trying to unravel it. I'm wondering how it's possible to move and speak, which is sort of how a sentient being, I mean human beings are constructed, within the realm of emptiness. And is the performance of the way really

[39:44]

the realm of emptiness. If there is no intention, if there is no desire, then how do we... Could I just say, the realm of emptiness is an unusual term. Emptiness is as relevant and present in the story realm as in the unstoried realm. It's present in both. Both realms are actually empty, but they're not really realms of form. Yeah, this form here, it's the form of all beings are here with all their stuff. But here is the, you know, there's no, what do you call it, here there's a perfect opening of emptiness operating with all the form. Over here, work needs to be done.

[40:46]

In the realm of stories, work needs to be done. But stories are already empty. And so, in fact, it's not so much that we're in the realm of emptiness, but we're actually in the realm of the Dharma. and we're moving in it already, and we have various mental constructions about what our movements are like right now. I'll take more time to formulate an appropriate question, but both realms are happening simultaneously. If both realms are happening simultaneously... What are the two realms? The realm of enlightenment and the realm of... Or the realm of stories. Okay. If one practices with the desire or intention to, say...

[41:54]

actualized into the realm of enlightenment, then it sort of creates a block from doing that. In other words, there's a wall that's created by one's intention and desire. That's possible. but the wall can never be found, so it's kind of an opportunity, this wall, to become a door. It's not a fixed wall. It can be a flower in which it is that you're practicing together with everyone and everybody's doing the same practice. That's what the wall could turn into. Or you might even realize that it's actually written on the wall, but that's so. And so on. There's a lot of possibilities if you wholeheartedly engaged created by mind.

[43:03]

And as you know, this is a school where we work with walls. You know, we actually like pay attention to walls and tiles and pebbles. And then they they reveal to us the truth if we're wholehearted about this care of them. a joke from early Zen Center times, earlier Zen Center times, the early days of greens. They used to have various desserts. And one of the desserts was called a Bodhidharma. Do you know what it was?

[44:13]

No, I'm wondering what it was. It was a walnut torte. It was Bodhidharma. Oh. Scratch. Was Jane her? Jane? In those days, I thought it was one of her, worthy of her. I thought maybe Jane was a walnut if she hadn't told me. God. beliefs, and I also will talk to you about beliefs. One of the beliefs in some lineages of Zen is that if you sit upright facing a wall, a flower will blossom in your back.

[45:18]

That's a belief that some people try out for a lifetime. Yes? I'm curious and I wonder if you want to say some more about what knowledge that is not known with stories, but it's a knowing that what kind of knowledge is that that's not in a story around? Yeah, well, I'm saying that it's this kind. But knowledge, so, contains the stories, like, I have this conventional understanding of knowledge. It contains the stories, but, for example, just for example, this group, what this group knows is not one story. And yet this group has many stories, many individuals, each one with a story. But the social reality of this group is a kind of knowledge which is not a story.

[46:35]

It's not another story on top of the individual stories that comprise. It's not a story. And it's not constructed by a consciousness. One could say it's constructed by the lives of all the beings in the group. but it's not another story. I mean, I don't know, and no one has said what that story is. All the stories are reported through the Vijnana channel. So, and the Buddhas say, we appear in, for example, human form, which could be analyzed as five aggregates, and we construct things here, and now I tell you a story, about this other realm. I tell you about a story where there are no stories. But this is the story I tell about that realm. And in this realm, the way I tell stories is fueled by the realm that's free of stories.

[47:46]

But there's not another story in that realm So is it not in the realm of experience then? Is that what you're saying? No, it is experience, experience of this type. But it's not experience of the jnana type. It's not the familiar type. Is it a feeling? You said it's not a perception. It's not like the elements of a personality. Is it like a network of life? Would you think of it like a network of life? Of life? Life or light? Of light? You could think of it that way, yeah. But it doesn't have that story. That's your story. But that's fine to think of it that way. You can tell whatever stories you want to tell about it. It is not and does not have a story about itself. However, it supports us to say that it is the relationship among all storytellers.

[48:53]

and not just all the storytellers, but the rain, and all the entire universe is participating in this. So it can be experiencing? So it is in the realm of experience? It's not an experience. Again, I often use the example of dancing. When you're dancing, you may have an experience of the dance, And someone who's watching you also may have an experience of the dance, but the dance is not my experience or your experience. A baseball game too, you know. The actual baseball game is not an experience, but the people in the stands and the people are playing and the people listening on the radio or watching on television, they all have an experience of the baseball game. but the baseball game is none of the people's experience.

[49:56]

But it includes them all. And that baseball game is unconstructed, although all the observers have constructions about the baseball game. And all things are actually like that. They depend on people's constructions, but they are not actually, ultimately, a construction. You can use construction the same as conditioned, unconstructed, unconditioned. Unconditioned doesn't mean that they don't depend on conditions, though. Unconditioned could mean that it's the way it is, even though it depends on what's going on. In other words, it's free and at peace no matter what's going on. It's unconstructed stillness. This is a story about it.

[50:59]

It doesn't have this story. I mean, it isn't the story. you are entering this practice in different ways or with different intention. And so some people, I might at one point begin to practice or begin to satsang and practice with the idea that I want to be peaceful. I might sit with an intention that I want to solve a problem. Or I might sit with no grasping. When we enter practice, is any of that practice enlightenment?

[52:02]

Any practice or just the practice of when we give up grasping or looking for some outcome? I would say no matter how you're intending to practice, enlightenment always embraces you with what you have. And if you intend not to practice, enlightenment embraces you also. But your way of practicing may actually be hindering your experience, your realization. of how you're being embraced by your efforts. You know, how your efforts are reciprocated, are met. In other words, by closing off, by grasping at one thing, by having some idea of outcome, then you're not open to... Yeah, you close yourself down in that way.

[53:04]

However, even though you're closing yourself down, you're embraced in your closing. All the other beings are doing zazen with you and are embracing you, but you're... You're saying, no, thank you, I'd rather do this. I'd rather be worried about... I'd rather do my thing. Telling my problem. Yeah. Even though what you wanted to do was become more open and so on, but you had a fixed idea about how to become open. I want to become open, but... This way. Not, you know, I want to be open, but not your way. Your way is like closed, so I'm not going to open your way. Your way is like, you know, we can go into details about that. I'm sure you'll bring those examples up. Well, sometimes you just want to do Zazen. Sometimes I just want, you know, just let me do it. Yeah, just let me do it. Do you want to do it the way that... Just let me do it, okay?

[54:05]

I want to do it, so let me do it. Yeah. Sometimes that's just the way it is. And that seemed perfectly fine to me, and I would, you know, I, on behalf of Zazen, this unsurpassed enlightenment will embrace you while you're doing Zazen the right way. Exactly the right way. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, and leave me alone right away. Yeah. And also, if you say, I'd like to do Zazen, but I don't know how, you're embraced there, too. To zazen, you embrace it too, but for you to do your work, you have to offer something. And what you offer evolves as you pay attention to your offerings. Do I have to walk into a zendo? You have to walk into your body and mind. So I wrote, you know, that of course it can be used or understood for the sake of personal individual benefit.

[55:24]

That's fine. For example, to become a great person, you practice... I think that's part of what I wanted to practice as I was in to become a great person, to become... kind of could sense what's going on. So I could kind of like go with what's actually happening rather than have a lot of information to deal with what's happening, to actually like join what's happening and be able to maybe help people join what's happening and sort of be with it kind of thing. I noticed that I had lots of brilliant professors who knew a lot, but the people really interested in me were people sometimes that didn't know so much, they just knew what was happening. And they didn't have a lot of information, actually, that they had to hold on to. They could actually deal with what's happening, but I realized that that required a lot of training. And I sort of heard that there were certain traditions that train you to kind of like be aware of what's happening and like embrace it.

[56:33]

So that's part of what attracted me to Zen, was to become a person who was dash a great being. But when you actually become a great being, then the Buddha Dharma turns around and you're no longer doing it to make yourself into a great being. It turns to like make other beings into great beings. That becomes the thing. It's just like make yourself into a great being. And when you're somewhat successful, it turns and becomes not you practicing with a group of people, but it becomes... the group practice. But it takes quite a bit of work to allow that to happen, that shift over and over on a daily basis. I've been looking for the wow feeling in a lot of what you're saying, or enlightenment.

[57:56]

Oh, maybe when I bring the big piece of chalk. I do, I look for, oh, wow, I mean, I get it, you know, one day I'll sit in Zaza and I'll be going, oh, yes, I really, you know, this is great. And I remember in one... Sounds like this one. Oh, yeah, the big one. Experience. Should I put experience up here or down here? I think the whole board. Experience. That's a big one. I recall in a dokuson with you, talking about mundane, somehow the word came up and I felt like something or other was really kind of mundane. And if I remember correctly, you mentioned it as mundane was worldly, was something... That's right.

[59:03]

Mundane is a synonym for worldly. Which sounds more, you know, like pizzazz. Just so I... Am I... Should I let go of looking for wow? No. I'd like red chalk or something. Big bowl. We have to be on the other side. So I think that part of the history of Zen in the West is that some people in the East and Southeast Asia, their understanding of Western philosophy was if we would make Buddhism into something related to experience,

[60:11]

That would be easier for Westerners because their philosophy is empirical and experiential. So let's try to find a way as getting an experience. And that will be, then it will sound less spiritual or mystical and more like something that a personal observer could check out and experience. So although that way of seeing things is one of the ways to see it. It was those people who saw it that way who were interested in the West because they were interested enough to know that the West saw things that way and then thought that it would be good for their country and good for Buddhism if they presented it that way. for Westerners. And in fact, that way of seeing Buddhism has been very successful in being transmitted to the West. But in the East, it's actually a very unusual way of seeing Buddhist practice in terms of not ceremony of zazen, because zazen are mystical.

[61:22]

They didn't mention ceremony. They mentioned kind of disciplines to get experiences. And so that was part of our background. And that's part of what attracts people to Buddhism is to get a wow or a great. And people do have experiences, great experiences. There are some great stories in the realm of stories, some amazing stories. And some of the stories are about great wows and great encouragements. That happens. Individual encouragements are good, but from a perspective of the Buddha way, the encouragements are really good when they encourage you to plunge into the practice of all beings. And the ceremonially enactment of encouragement, the ceremonial enactment of enlightenment, the practice of enlightenment, is part of what gives you a chance to be wholehearted and open to what is usually the practice of the Buddha Dharma in most of the countries it comes from.

[62:40]

And it's not about experience. of a person. And the people, the Eastern people who knew something about Western philosophy, they knew something about it but they didn't know all about it. Some parts of Western philosophy actually do open to the idea of a knowledge which is not personal knowledge, but like the knowledge of a scientific community or knowledge of a philosophical community. very, very big philosophical community. So there is some resource in Western thinking which I feel is a resource for an understanding of practice enlightenment which is not experience.

[63:46]

But there are experiences which do encourage people to keep doing the ceremony of Zazen. But some people, in the transmission, because it was an experience, when they got an encouraging experience, they stopped practicing. And they thought that this experience that the person was having was enlightenment. And even their experience which freed them from their stories ...freedom in the midst of their stories, they thought that that was enlightenment. And then they, instead of seeing that as an encouragement to continue to manifest the practice which is not the personal practice but the practice of all beings, they stopped practicing. All of them became unwell as a result of that. And they are part of the, in some sense, conditions which prepared the West for a broader, a more comprehensive reception of the totality of the Buddhadharma, which is really, you know, it's much bigger than what we've let in so far.

[65:15]

I understand a lot of that. Thank you. You said earlier that it's hard for us to practice as if everything is empty, knowing that everything is empty, or it's hard for us to realize that everything is empty, so it's hard for us to practice wholeheartedly. Yeah. Understanding that everything is empty is hard. It's difficult. So, but I'm just trying to see what the connection, why does wholehearted be, why would it be enhanced to renew that, to practice wholeheartedly?

[66:35]

Well, not wholehearted about something is because we have a fixed idea about it. like we think, this person I'm talking to is kind of an average person of average interest, you know, and I'm not sure that I should give them my complete undivided devotion right now. I think maybe I should keep a little bit of my energy ready to maybe meet somebody that might be better and that might come along. Because somebody better might come along, because this is like... And they agree that they're average. And they agree that they're substantially actually average. And we know it's not an insult, you know. But because I think that's actually what they are, I kind of like am holding back a little bit, just in case something more interesting comes.

[67:45]

Now, if I think this person is, like, the most interesting person that I've ever met, and I think that that's actually so, then I also won't be able to, like, really give myself to them either, because I'll be so afraid of them, or change, or whatever. So there, too, I got to, like, plan, what can I do if they do this or do that, or want this or want that? So it's hard for me, like, really to be here because I'm trying to get a hold of them or arrange my relationship with them. And if this person's, like, way below average, in my view, and I think that's substantial, then I will also not really want to give myself completely. Maybe, you know, even if I theoretically I should give myself to below average people because this is a fixed, substantial below average person. I really got some problems in giving myself completely to them because I should also be concerned with the other people.

[68:51]

It's kind of distracting to make something into a fixed thing. When you realize emptiness, you realize this is the ceremony of the Buddha way right now. This is the opportunity. This is where the practice unfolds. This is the place. But to get to that place we have to, you know, we have to wander about a little bit to realize that there's no other place than this one and this place cannot be grasped. Again, if I grasp it, my energies are split and distracted. If I don't grasp it, dash, understand it can't be grasped, and there's no place to go, that's what it's like to realize emptiness.

[69:59]

You're devoted to what's happening. So if you bow to everything, you'll realize emptiness. If you realize emptiness, you'll bow to everything. If you're totally devoted to everything, you realize emptiness. If you realize emptiness, you're totally devoted to everything. And the Buddha was totally devoted to everything. But we had the strong habit to... Discriminate. And attribute self-existence to things, like Zazen people and so on. So today, Zazen's low average, I don't want to give myself to this below-average zazen this morning. No. Well, this isn't just below-average zazen. This is substantial below-average zazen.

[71:01]

And I don't want to give myself then. Or if it's above-average, I want to give myself to it, but I want to get something out of it too. So any kind of substance... that we cling to interferes with our hearty participation, which is this unceasing effort to free all beings. All beings. But if we make beings into fixed things, or we make the effort into a fixed thing, it's difficult to actually realize that. But if we keep doing everything in that spirit, we will realize it. And there's innumerable practices. which we can do in that spirit. And we can tell, to some extent, when we're holding back.

[72:07]

When we've got some, I don't know, some reservation about living our life with this person right now. And that's connected to thinking that this person is who we think they are. We think this person is this person and probably not some divine bodhisattva come to stretch our ideas, to open our mind. Not just possibly not, but probably, like, really not. And it's probably not, it gets to be like It's not really probably not. It's like actually. There's not probability that doesn't play here. This is like actual. This is a fact and there's no probability about it. And that's the way I feel.

[73:10]

And I confess that and I repent that because that's not what I hear bodhisattvas are like. And when they're not like that, when they're like this other way of totally giving themselves to each being, they find out stuff that can only be found out when we're that way with each being, which means when we're with the emptiness. In order to really be devoted to all beings, we must realize there's no beings to be devoted to. in order to be really devoted to each being, we must realize that each being is unfindable, ungraspable. We're groping with them. But we're not groping towards actually finally getting a hold of them. We're groping as a ceremony. A ceremonial grope.

[74:11]

A ceremony of groping for each other. But not to get each other, but to try to find the ceremony. Well, how about doing it this way today? Okay. And then I go up the altar and move the candle over a little bit. Did you see that? I saw that. That was for you. You can go find out. I think it was with the chair. It's with the vertical post that holds the armrest, that post. It was 3.6 inches to the right, to my right, Buddha's left. Thank you. You're welcome. He's the head Shidan, right? He's the expert on where the candles go, so I give him special attention.

[75:18]

I have to confess, I'm always nervous when you get up the shop, Lord. It's kind of fraught with danger just because I start rasping for these diagrams. And I'm always troubled by this one. And you were talking about... attaching to experience as an enlightenment before but I always get caught up in the trap here for me that when you say to practice this you practice this to realize that this always I fall into this trap of feeling this is this is a means to an end and yet I see this when I practice this realization that the means is the end here this this is the kingdom of the ends right here and so I think To show this question about the knowledge here between jnana and vijnana, it's not clear to me either when we say buddhas versus the knowledge of ascension beings, given what we're talking about.

[76:45]

I just, yeah, what's the basis of knowledge then? And I found myself just getting frustrated with this whole side of the board. I wanted just to erase it. Go ahead. OK. May I? Yeah, please. So that's gone. And now this is... Well, I have a story. I have a story. I have a story. And my story is this is in darkenment.

[77:48]

In darkenment. And this is in darkenment as enlightenment. As Dogen says, in the light there is dark, but don't see it as dark. And I'm meditating on this not being this kind of way to get here, but this is the means as the ends and practice that way and in darkenment of not knowing That practice realization is happening. And this is more like sort of a spiral to me. This is maybe the bottom of the spiral, the ceremony, and it's opening up to the knowledge of the Buddhas. The Buddhas are in the sky, too. They're in the endarkenment that I see. I don't see the enlightenment. Is there anything else you'd like to address?

[78:51]

I'd be good. I would like to erase that, too. And I would like to ask that... Excuse me.

[80:06]

May I correct him? He would have to remove everything, including the chalkboard. Because originally there was no chalkboard. There was no Andrew to raise the chalkboard. But don't erase Andrew yet, okay? So, what is the wrong way of practicing what? What is the wrong way of what? The wrong way of practicing what to... If we have reality, we just have reality. All the understanding is just our way of . We call it, one part we call it a story, the other part we call it real, the other part we call it something else.

[81:12]

What is the, what is calling reality that? We have total wholeness. And who's the one who's slicing you? Well, there's many stories about who that one is. And one of them I told is a story that my mind creates stories which separate things and discriminate among things. So that's the story I have about how it happens. What I am... I think that what I see within this reality is just part of it. Yeah, I agree. I have that story too, that what you think is part of the reality. So I'm slicing... The story, I think, it is I slicing things that are...

[82:24]

The whole slicing is just a story. The slicing is a story, yes. You told me once, when you asked me once, a long time ago, what's wrong, basically what's wrong. And I was stupefied and I said, well, I don't know. Nothing is wrong. And then you said, well, why are you here then? And I don't know what to say. And I'm back there. That I'm basically, all of us fighting here something that is nothing really happening. We're just creating these slices and stories and divisions where it doesn't exist actually. Yeah, so, and I'm saying that you could, in that context, still go ahead and believe that it will realize the truth if you come and practice in this ceremony, in this group, the truth will be realized.

[83:35]

The unsegmented, unspecified, truth will be realized if you practice with this group of people right here. If you do the ceremony of this group practice together, I believe that that will realize the truth beyond the stories. That's a belief I have, a story I have, which I believe in. Thank you. Thank you.

[84:49]

Thank you. Thank you.

[84:50]

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