I hesitate to say this to you because it's just an idea but still I want to share it with you and that is the issue of delayed gratification. I read this article about a study of delayed gratification and as I got into the article, I thought, the Bodhisattva path is kind of like, you could say, a really extreme example of delayed gratification. Not that there's no gratification, because there's lots of gratification on the Bodhisattva path.

[01:01]

Lots of it. but there's some gratifications that are being delayed. So the article was about the one study they had, I think, when they put children in a room where they could, by themselves, they were old enough so that wouldn't be frightening, put maybe one cookie or something in front of them, and they told them that if they would leave the cookie alone, for five minutes or something, ten minutes, that they would get two cookies. And some kids couldn't wait five minutes. Or anyway, they didn't want to wait five minutes. They just ate the cookie. And other kids waited for five minutes and then they got two cookies. And maybe, I guess they probably ate them, for all I know. I don't remember that part. So they studied these children afterwards. They studied them well into adulthood and they found that the children who could delay the gratification, generally speaking, and they weren't more intelligent, actually, than the other ones.

[02:21]

I think they factored that in. that they were better able to do their schoolwork and deal with life's difficulties. And generally speaking, they were much more successful and had a lower rate of incarceration in prison, for example, than the children who couldn't wait for five minutes or whatever it was. So one of the theories of this study is that if you're able to somehow delay gratification, you're able to do other things that are more important than delaying gratification. But delaying gratification isn't the thing, it's just that if you find a way to do that for the sake of perhaps greater gratification, you can do, aside from the gratification,

[03:24]

aside from maybe getting two cookies, you can develop other skills. And again, a certain dimension of the bodhisattva path is like that. If you can develop enlightenment and freedom from suffering for yourself, you can develop skills that you can develop skills more easily than if you... Yeah. That's just an idea. If you go for enlightenment in this lifetime, then you only have to delay your gratification for about somewhere between 15 and 40 years, or maybe 43 or 44, 45, 46, 50. Depends on the intensity of your practice. If you've been practicing for a long time already before you hear the Dharma, in the case that you have actual Buddha there, you might be able to get enlightenment in a month or two.

[04:33]

But you have to delay gratification for maybe like 15 minutes to weeks. And so the first disciples of Buddha, they were already good at delaying gratification. That's how they got to be really good yogis. You can't get to be a good yogi if you can't delay gratification. When you first sit down, You're not immediately gratified. Matter of fact, you run into some difficulties that many of you noticed. When you sit, there's lots of difficulties. You don't immediately get gratification. Or maybe you do get some gratification, but then you get some non-gratification. So we struggle over years with this. And to me, it looks like people who keep struggling with it, they become more skillful as yogis. So... That's just something to consider, working with this thing of delaying gratification in order to become a more skillful person at doing things which aren't, you know, which might lead to your gratification, but they also would make it possible for you to help others.

[05:52]

So sometimes, you know, again, as I'm a while ago, the middle way is sometimes described as the middle way between self-mortification or self-denial and self-gratification, sensory gratification. It's between those two. But it doesn't say that you shouldn't have any sensory gratification. It doesn't say you shouldn't have any self-denial. It's to not be addicted to either one of them. And the way you find the way not to be addicted to either one of them is to be able to postpone gratification of this thing, which sometimes is good to do. And also postpone gratification by using self-denial as a way to get gratification. Don't be addicted to either. Find a middle way.

[06:58]

Well, I'll do that. I'll spend my whole life trying to find that middle way. And I think that maybe in this life I could find the middle way. And, you know, what pops in my mind is I have a book which says, in this very life, which describes the path of liberation in this very life. But it's not the bodhisattva path. It's not the path to Buddhahood. It's the path in this life of practicing postponing self-gratification or delaying gratification enough to attain enlightenment in this life. The bodhisattva does it to a greater extent for a greater enlightenment. That's one thing I want to say and the other thing I want to say was that I very much have been talking to you in the past about the relationship between living beings, sentient beings, and Buddhas.

[08:16]

I proposed to you living beings And Buddhas are not separate. Buddhas are not separate from us. We have a relationship with Buddhas. There's no Buddhas without living beings. There's no living beings now without Buddhas, and there's no Buddhas without living beings. I propose that to you. I still find that a very helpful meditation in this life. I also suggested that the wish to attain enlightenment in this life and to do what is necessary to attain enlightenment in this life, or the wish to become a Buddha, I suggested that these wishes arise out of the relationship with Buddhas.

[09:21]

So I give you the example. I saw examples of bodhisattvas And in that relationship of seeing the bodhisattvas, I wished to be what I thought was a bodhisattva. Out of a relationship, this stuff emerged. Still, once the aspiration has arisen, then the question is, is the practice one of relationship with Buddhas, or is it one of imitating Buddhas? And in the range from totally or totally imitative, the path of realizing enlightenment in this lifetime is more over in the side of imitating Buddhas. Not so much having a relationship with them, but doing the practices which Buddhas have done. The other side also can be somewhat imitative, but it's also about doing the Buddha's practices in order to develop a relationship with Buddha.

[10:31]

And that range of imitative and relational the realization of enlightenment in this lifetime is more over on the imitative side. The bodhisattva path can be on the imitative side and the relational side. It can be way over on the extreme relational side and some instructions for bodhisattvas are almost all about relational side. Not almost, not entirely. So, for example, the great bodhisattva Samantabhadra has ten vows, ten vows, and many of the vows, especially the first ones, are about relating to Buddhas. And then as, so, paying homage to Buddha, making offerings to Buddhas, praising Buddhas,

[11:39]

And then the next ones are not about Buddhas. The next ones are confessing your own shortcomings. And that is a practice of imitation of Buddhas. Actually, Buddhas or bodhisattvas do that. So you're imitating bodhisattvas. Then rejoicing in the merits of others, which follows nicely. acknowledging your own shortcomings. And the next two, again, are about relating to Buddhas. One is to ask Buddhas not to split, not to go away. And the other one is to ask Buddhas to turn the wheel of dharma. So out of the first seven, relating to Buddhas, which the great Bodhisattva, Samantabhadra, he does those vows, and he does them very extensively. He does them a lot. That's it. They're called the practices and vows. His vows are practices, his practices are vows. To do practices, and he practices doing vows to practice.

[12:44]

So out of the first seven, five are about an intense relationship with Buddha. Intensely relating to Buddha. Then the next one, eight, number eight, Number eight is imitate all the practices of Buddhas. So there again, in the sense of you're looking to the Buddhas but you're imitating the Buddhist practices. Number nine is be of service to living beings. And number ten, his vow to dedicate the merit of the first nine to the welfare of living beings. So the last ones, maybe the last two are about relating to sentient beings and among the first

[13:50]

eight, in a sense, six of them are about relating to Buddha, but one of the six to relate to Buddha. So that's one example of the bodhisattva path. Lots of relating to Buddha. But in some bodhisattva instruction, they say, of course, all disciples of Buddha go for refuge in Buddha. In the early tradition, when people wanted to study the Buddha, they said, I want to go for refuge in you. And Buddha would say, fine. And then sometimes when they met the Buddha and they didn't go for refuge in Buddha, they just met the Buddha and listened to the Buddha, they would wake up. And then they would say, I want to go for refuge in Buddha. And Buddha would say, And they would go for refuge in Buddha. But then again, it would be this, I go for refuge with you and now I do your practice. In some Mahayana scriptures, in some instructions for bodhisattvas, they say, when a bodhisattva, and also a bodhisattva, or a monastic, lay bodhisattvas and monastic bodhisattvas, when they go for revision Buddha, they should think, I must realize the body of Buddha.

[15:16]

This is how the bodhisattvas go for revision Buddha. Not, I just have to take refuge in Buddha. I must become Buddha. I must become just like a Buddha in order to, for example, help all beings. Refuge. That's different from, I'm just going to go for refuge in Buddha, and by going for refuge in Buddha, it's all going to work out. Yes. Yes, Jackie. Oh, thanks for asking. So, for example, in the practice of the great bodhisattva Samantabhadra, he says, I start by paying homage, and you pay homage with body, speech, and mind. So with your body, the traditional formal way of paying homage is to prostrate yourself.

[16:26]

And then with your voice you say, I take refuge in Buddha. And with your mind you think, I take refuge in Buddha. Now in our school we have a verse. And this verse is a verse I learned in the Zen school, but I think we find it also in books about Samantabhadra. When we're bowing to the Buddha, we say, bowing and bowed to. No nature. Bowing person, bowed to person, not to. Plunge into this inexhaustible, ungraspable vow. realize the reality. So Bodhisattva is encouraged while bowing to the Buddha to realize that the Buddha is not an object or a subject. And I don't remember this story correctly, but I think it goes something like this.

[17:39]

A Zen master named Wang Bo And he was practicing, I think, with his teacher. But maybe he wasn't. I think he was the head monk rather than the master of the temple. So he was in some temple, and the tree fell. Norbert was concerned about this tree that might fall. And he was prostrating. And it fell just now, it looks like. And we are responding. So we can go out there and look and see. Hopefully there was no sentient beings under it. You going to go look at it now, Timu? Thank you. Where was I? Oh, Wong Bo. He's in the monastery. And there was a monk in the monastery.

[18:39]

just happened to be the future emperor of China who was hiding out partly. He actually was interested in Buddhism, but he was also hiding out from his brother who might want to kill him because he was a potential rival. Anyway, he survived this dangerous situation and became the emperor. And while he was in the monastery, he saw Wang Bo prostrating himself to the Buddha. And he knew about bodhisattvas, that bodhisattvas are trying to not, you know, not rely on anything. He said, well, not trying to rely on the Buddha, the Dharma, the Sangha, how come you're prostrating? And... I forgot how the story goes, but he said to Wang Bo, but then I think he slapped him. Wang Bo slapped the future emperor. I don't rely on Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha by bowing to Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.

[19:48]

And then he slapped him a couple more times for some reason. And when he became emperor, he named Wang Bo, he gave Wang Bo a national... rough action Zen master, or crude action Zen master. And then when Wang Bo died, somebody said, you should give him a nicer name, so he did. So we practice towards Buddha. If we do pay homage to Buddha, we're trying to do that without falling for the parent separation. We haven't realized Buddhahood yet, but we're not separate from the complete realization of Buddhahood. So we bow to Buddha, one practice, and then address that apparent duality and let go of it. But some people say, I don't feel separate from Buddha, but therefore I don't have to bow to Buddha.

[20:54]

I'm cool. I don't need to bow to Buddha. I mean, no problem. To bow to Buddha and not get caught by it, that's usually the way to go. And that usually involves bowing and getting caught for quite a while. So you keep reverently serving the high spiritual principle and clinging in the process, and there probably is. But this is to bring your clinging out so you can see it and become free of it. And not just clinging in relationship to boyfriends and girlfriends or beautiful little... We should practice it there too. Person holding and person being held. Person loving and person beloved. Their nature, no nature. My body, his body, not two.

[21:58]

Plunge into the vow. Realize truth with my grandbaby. Same with the babies. And same with the Buddhas. The Buddhas are doing that practice with us. And we can do that practice with the Buddhas. that enlightened part of ourselves is Buddha. Would that be correct? I won't say it's incorrect. I would just say that there's something about us when we're not enlightened, there's something about our unenlightened, our non-Buddha body, our non-Buddha body that we've got, Have you noticed that one? Yeah, a lot. Yeah. So we've got a non-Buddha body-body. That body is actually, and this is the relational part, that body is actually calling out to the Buddhas to teach us.

[23:09]

And then the Buddhas show us something, and then that body has something in it that wants to practice like the Buddhas. We have that nature. But it's not really the Buddha. It's the thing about us that wants to become Buddha. It's the thing about a non-Buddha that's yearning for Buddha. And it can call Buddhas, and when Buddhas respond, it responds back and forth. It's the part that leads us to be really wise and really kind. And be kind and be free of our idea of kind, too. so we aren't hindered by our concepts about kindness, so that true kindness can be realized beyond the concept of kindness. That's part of the proposal. Something about us wants to be morally good, wants to bring peace and happiness to the world.

[24:12]

And that part of us is calling out for teaching. But that's not really Buddhahood calling for Buddhahood. It's something about our non-Buddhahood that is calling for Buddhahood. There's something about our nature, even before we've perfectly realized our ethical possibilities, that wants to realize our ethical possibilities. But I don't think Buddha nature is the same as Buddha. Buddha nature is the way we want to be Buddha. That's more or less consciousness. There's something about us that wants to be Buddha, or anyway, wants to be enlightened and free, and wants to help other people. We also have, because this wish is in our ordinary body, it's complicated. So we're, well, I kind of want to be Buddha, but I'm not sure, actually that may be too high, you know. So we're struggling with that to find out, to clarify that Buddha nature in us, to see where it really wants to go.

[25:19]

Somebody told me that they think I'm really pushing the Bodhisattva path. And I say, I hear you if you think I am, but I don't feel exactly like I'm pushing it. I feel like I am kind of pushing you to ask yourself what you want to do. And if you don't want to do the Bodhisattva path, then you have is that you look and found out something. And we can work with that. Anybody who doesn't want to do the Bodhisattva path, what path do you want to do? I would like to help you find out the path you want to go. Because again, studying the Buddha way is to study yourself. And if you find out that yourself doesn't seem to want to practice the Buddha way, if you study that, you're on the Buddha way. And if you study the self, you might get to the point where you say, okay, I studied myself and I found out I would like to have enlightenment in this life. Okay? Study yourself can lead you to enlightenment in this life if you want to.

[26:22]

Study yourself can take you to enlightenment in this life. But also study yourself can lead you to realize, I'm not so concerned about enlightenment in this life. If I get enlightenment in this life, fine, but I would like to have multiple enlightenments on the way to Buddhahood. I found that out about myself. And I forgot myself, and there was enlightenment, but I still want to do this Buddha thing. So I'm not going to cling to that enlightenment. And some of us will, you know, like... Some of you write me letters saying, would you please teach me? And I say, okay, I'll try to do that. And some of us say to Buddha, would you please teach me? Like we chatted this morning, may all Buddhas and ancestors be compassionate to us and help us. And Buddhas before they were Buddhas were just like us. And those who have not been enlightened will be enlightened.

[27:29]

We say that kind of stuff. I'm not asking you to believe it. I'm actually... I'm not pushing you to believe it, but I am kind of pushing you to ask yourself, what does that say? What are these words? Who am I? What is this? I think that goes with the Buddha way. But it also goes with other kinds of wisdom, too. Lesser wisdoms thrive on that kind of questioning, but also the Buddha way. There's a compatibility with the enlightenment in this life and in the enlightenment throughout many lives leading eventually to Buddha. Bodhisattvas can be enlightened billions of times on their path to Buddhahood. It's just that they don't stop it because they say, I'm not going to stop until Buddhahood and then after that I'm not going to stop either. So somebody said, what about when it says in our ceremony Will you continue this practice even after realizing the Buddha body?

[28:33]

And they say, yes, I will. Why, why? I'll continue after Buddhahood. And the Buddha was actually asked that too. I'll try to stop with that story for a second. So the Buddha was asked by this, I guess he was a Brahmin. His name was something like a pun. And he said, do you go out into the forest, into the wilderness to practice? And the Buddha said, yes, I do. And he said, but isn't it kind of scary out there? Isn't it under lots of wild animals and poisonous plants and falling eucalyptus trees? And he said, yes. And wasn't it frightening to you? He said, yes. And are you like a teacher to many people? Yes. Will they emulate you?

[29:36]

Will they imitate you? He says, yes. Well, isn't that irresponsible? Which would put them in a state of fear. He said, well, I don't know. When I went out there, I went out there and I love the forest now. I love that frightening place. Because when I used to go out there and I got frightened, Walking and I got frightened, I would just keep walking until I wasn't frightened anymore. And if I was lying down and I got frightened, I would just lie down until I wasn't afraid anymore. And if I was standing, I would just stand until I wasn't afraid anymore. And if I was sitting, I would sit until I wasn't afraid anymore. In that way, I realized, and now I'm not afraid out in the forest anymore. I love being out there. And then, I was named Giannisoli, Giannisoli. Janasala said. Well, maybe Janasala didn't say it.

[30:37]

Maybe Buddha said it. Now, you might think, since I still do the practice, even after I've realized freedom from fear through this practice in the wilderness, you might think, I'm not yet a Buddha. I'm not yet understanding that I'm stuck in the practice. But I'm not. I'm free of the practice. I don't have to do the practice anymore. I'm a Buddha. But I kind of do have to do the practice for two reasons. One, I have to do the practice to show the next generation. And two, I have to do the practice because I love it. So will you continue this practice even after realizing the Buddha body? Yes, I will. Why will you? Because I have to show the next generation the practice, which I don't have to do anymore, but I do have to do it, because I have to do it so that other people will see what it looks like for somebody who's been doing it for a while to do it in the world they see. So I have to do it for that reason, but not because I'm not a Buddha, but other people learning this way.

[31:42]

And also, I love it. I just love it. And I've been loving it for quite a while. And there was a time when I didn't love it, when it was scary. When I was afraid of the snakes biting me and the insects. And I was afraid I was going to fall through the hole into the pit of hell. I had that stuff. But then I practiced. I studied myself. And I became free of fear. And I realized the middle way. And I continue to practice even though I don't need to anymore. and because I love it." That's what the Buddha said, supposedly. Shakyamuni Buddha, 2,500 years ago talked like that. And he also made vows like, the unenlightened I will enlighten, the suffering comfort, and so on.

[32:43]

He made those vows. And Bodhisattva's make vows like Buddha did. Because they want to imitate Buddha and become Buddha. And some other people just imitate Buddha and that works too. But they don't necessarily take on the same vows that Buddha did. They just imitate the practice of, for example, when you're walking in a storm and you feel fear, just keep walking. Fear goes away. If you're sitting in the storm, just keep sitting in the storm until the fear goes away, and so on. And you'll find that it's wonderful to be in the storm. Okay? Yes, Charlie? After this morning's discussion, I had a question that was bugging me.

[33:44]

And now, after your story about the cookies, it's bugging me even more. But now it feels a little sillier. To wait for the people to bring you the second cookie sort of implies faith that it's going to happen. It's something that you've heard about. will happen, and to wait for... Yeah, he couldn't find faith. Seems really to imply his faith that there's such a thing as rebirth, that there are other lives beyond, besides this life. I struggle with that because I really don't believe that. And I have a lot of trouble because I don't accept that premise. But then I think about the cookies and I'm like, okay, you know, maybe I don't believe them that they're going to bring me a second cookie, but some people I trust tell me they will. And it's only 10 minutes that I have to wait, not several lifetimes. So maybe I could take a risk on that.

[34:46]

And I find the ability to have faith You know, to at least entertain faith that, okay, well, let's try it. Maybe a second cookie will come for us. And... We don't have much time. It's 5.30 now. I just want to say quickly, okay, if you were told by your teacher that if you didn't eat the first cookie, you'd be brought two later, okay, and then you waited there, And then the people, when they're going to bring you two cookies, on their way, they tripped and fell and dropped the cookies, and the glass broke. So the cookies had all the glass fragments, and they come in and say to you, we're sorry, we can't give you the cookies. And you say, but you said you'd give me two if I didn't eat that one. They say, well, there's still one there. You can have that one. But even though you feel like you don't trust those people anymore because they didn't give you two cookies, you still developed. The Buddhahood that you're waiting for, this billion cookies that you're waiting for, for passing up on a billion cookies, they never come.

[35:55]

Huh? What? You heard that it will and you maybe trust somebody. I trust that guy and he told me they're going to come and I trust him. And then it didn't come and I realized he tricked me. But all the while I was doing this practice, And this is pretty good. I told you this story. I went to Zen Center because I wanted to practice with a group of people because I thought they would help me practice meditation. I thought meditation would help me be like those Zen Bodhisattvas, which I wanted to be like. And I went there and there were people. And they were. And sure enough, because they were sitting, I could go sit too. Every morning. two periods before work, I could do it. Whereas in Minnesota, by myself, I couldn't sit two periods before work. Because nobody was sitting. So with the help of them, I went to get that.

[36:59]

I didn't go to San Francisco to help the people of San Francisco to sit. I went to have the people of San Francisco help me sit, and they did. And I said, thank you. But I also went to have a teacher, because when I was sitting in Minnesota, I had questions about stuff that was happening while I was sitting, and I thought, I have a teacher to say, is this good? Is this a problem? Are these visions of Buddhahood and so on that are happening and all these great enlightenments, are they a problem? Am I crazy or am I enlightening? I'd just like somebody to talk to about it. So then I went to see this teacher, and when I saw him, I kind of forgot about all these questions. I went to one of his talks, and one of the first talks I gave, he said, I'm not enlightened. And I thought, oh, too bad. Now, he didn't promise me, but my friends, some of my friends promised me that when I got there, there would be an enlightened Zen master there. So some of those people, those who didn't, they would like to, you know, I won't say, they were like me.

[38:05]

Let's put it that way. But they told me that he was a great master, so I went there. And there he was, and I thought, okay. Then he said, I'm not enlightened. So I was a little disappointed. But I thought, he's not enlightened, but he's still the best I've ever seen. So I'm going to stay another week or two. And then a few weeks later he said, I am Buddha. And I thought, okay. Okay. Now, when he said that, he didn't mean that he was a Buddha. He just said, I'm Buddha. Actually, you can all say, I'm Buddha, and also understand that you have not realized the Buddha body. Sissi Kershaw also said, when he was talking about the Lotus Sutra, he says, well, the person in this Buddha body is kind of an unusual person. So, you are welcome to have these problems.

[39:11]

And I might actually ask you if you trust me and you might say, well, not too much. And then I might keep asking you, if I trust you a lot, I might say, rebirth is true. And then you can say, okay, I'm going to believe it. We can play this game about rebirth as long as I'm around. about do you believe it or don't you believe it, what problems you have with it. The thing that applies to rebirth, the teachings that are applied to rebirth also apply to birth and also applies to death. We have birth, death, and rebirth. Okay? The character of birth and the character of rebirth, they all have three characteristics. Apply these teachings about the character of phenomena to birth, and you won't have to worry about rebirth anymore. And after you don't worry about rebirth anymore, then you won't worry about rebirth anymore.

[40:17]

You don't have to believe in birth. Do you? You don't have to believe in birth to practice. You've got suffering. The character of suffering is the same as the character of birth, rebirth, and death. So we can practice. If you practice these teachings about the nature of phenomena and apply it to rebirth, you will become free of rebirth. Once you're free of your problems of rebirth, that will make it easier probably for you to consider whether you want to be a Buddha. You can understand Buddha. the nature of birth, death, and rebirth long before Buddhahood. So in this case, you have a chance of understanding what rebirth is. Okay? Once you understand it, then you must say, now that I understand it, I see it's not a problem for me to commit to a path that has no beginning or end. So, a little bit of enlightenment

[41:20]

may help us actually be able to say, Oh, I'm up for a path that is really long. I really want to do it. And the implication of rebirth is not a problem for me anymore because I understand what rebirth is. Rebirth is this thing which is not what I thought it was. It has a characteristic of what I think it is, but it has another characteristic which supports what I think it is, which is totally untouched by what I think of it is, and it has this purified characteristic which is free of what I thought it was. Birth, death, and rebirth are all free of existence and non-existence. when we understand that none of these things, birth, death, and rebirth, will not bother us anymore, and then we can make all kinds of commitments which are unhindered by this time and space. Okay? All right, yeah. Do you have a quick question? Yes, quick question. In my book, you mentioned about the letters that you were receiving and you were kind of thinking whether I'm worthy of all that

[42:29]

I wonder if I am, yeah. Yeah, and that makes me wonder that why you wonder that when you're giving so much as the truth, everything, why do you wonder the receiving? Why is there... I just, I feel like I've been given so much. I wonder, am I giving back as much? I'm given so much. I can't see that. I can't quite see that I'm giving back as much as I'm receiving. I see so much. Like, I get 50 letters. Can I give back 50 letters? I can't, unless I return the letters. I used to feel this way. I feel you have already given it. You feel that way, but I wonder if that's true. I understand you feel that way. That's why you sent me the letter. Oh, you're so generous. Please continue. But I wonder if I'm worthy of you saying that I'm generous. Just like I used to wonder, why do I get to spend time with Suzuki Roshi?

[43:33]

None of you got a chance, did you? How come I got a chance? I'm no better than you. We didn't get a chance to be with you. How did you get so lucky to be with me? Don't you feel like that sometimes? I'm really lucky to be with somebody who got to be with him. Yeah, but I shouldn't say lucky, but I look at my friends, you know, who are, it seems to me they're just as kind or intelligent or sincere as I was, or more so, but some of them didn't get to meet Suzuki Roshi. I don't understand why I had this great chance. I didn't get it. I don't understand. But still, I'm so grateful. Okay, so that not understanding, because I always have trouble... Not understanding is a characteristic of somebody like me who is not a Buddha. When I'm a Buddha, I'll understand.

[44:35]

Oh, now I see why. I was sent there because I needed special attention. My friends didn't need to go because they didn't need his help. But I was so bad, I needed a really good teacher. Maybe I'll understand that. But right now, I don't know why I was so fortunate to live at a time When he was there, and I went there, and he didn't die, he said, yeah, you can be here. Just like I told somebody the other night, you know, when he was dying, I said, when he wasn't, you know, I wasn't giving, he wasn't, he couldn't go to the Zendo anymore, couldn't go to meals anymore. didn't give jokes on, wasn't giving lectures, in his room, eating and so on, and getting treatments. I said, could I just sit in the room when you're getting your treatments? And he said, okay. How did I get so fortunate to be able to watch this guy in his last day? I got to sit there and watch him receive his treatments.

[45:36]

And then the person The mock Sebastian person got sick and said to me, he said, you've been watching, you can do it. How did I get that good fortune to be able to be there with him in that way? I don't understand. I'm not saying I'm unworthy. I don't even know if I'm unworthy. I don't know if I'm worthy or unworthy. I wonder. I'm wondering... You sure can. Join the group of offering me answers. Yeah, go ahead. I was a parent, I think, of Suzuki Roshi, that you were practicing in an incredibly detailed and sincere way. And there are early videos of you, or films of you, in which it's pretty clear.

[46:38]

He allowed you. In fact, it was helpful, he thought, perhaps, to him and to you, to have him in that position. I sometimes feel as though we benefit from the fact that your psychology, when you got to Zen Center, was... I hope this doesn't sound like ersatz psychology on my part or disrespectful, but that you've had enough deprivation and suffering in your early life so that you were going to be very, very careful and sincere in your practice. And so the rest of your time with them has to be benefited from that extreme kind of detail of your practice. So I don't know what to say. good for us or not, but I sometimes wish that we could together do something that would leave you with the feeling that, of course, you're always going to practice in such an impeccable way, but we fill up that part of you that has to wonder in your psychology, that still has to wonder whether you're worthy.

[48:10]

Maybe it's a mothering kind of thing. I don't know. Thank you. Now I know. Maybe I'll continue not to do it then. So you can tell such excellent stories. So thank you for all your... You have 15 more days, I guess 16. And I pray that you continue, and Happy New Year.

[48:54]

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