Is there anything you wish to discuss? Yes. Good morning. I would like to better understand how you reconcile what we just talked about this morning with where to pull work in a robust structure. You know, I actually like a cushion up here and a microphone. Because then when people ask questions, could you all hear what you said? So when people ask questions, it's easier for people to hear.

[01:01]

You can stay there. I can rephrase what you said. Let me just try and see how I do rephrasing. I heard you say something about in some environments, you may say the corporate environment, you feel that there's something about the situation that doesn't seem to support self-study. Is that right? But the other side of it, you said something about performance. In the corporate environment, everything is structured. Success is structured around self and review. Yeah. So that's, she said, in the corporate situations, everything's structured around self. And did you say review? That's the positive side. is that if that helps you notice the self, that actually is somewhat supportive, that that situation makes you very aware of your self-concern.

[02:06]

Doesn't it? It could, anyway. That you're aware, oh, I'm concerned about how I will be viewed and reviewed. In that way, As you described the corporate environment, I'm not saying it is that way or isn't that way, but when you're in an environment that brings up self and the things that the self seems to be performing, and view of that by yourself or others, that actually supports the study. Working with a Zen teacher, oftentimes it's just like that, that meeting the teacher seems to be about yourself getting a review. The students come and talk to me, for example.

[03:09]

I'm playing the role of teacher. Students come to me and they often say, when I meet you, I'm very self-conscious. They're very nervous because of me looking at them. And that situation actually is normal, that when the student goes and sees the teacher, the student is often, not always, aware that the teacher's looking at them and they're concerned about what will the teacher see. And they often say to me, I confess to get your approval. They're coming concerned with their approval by the teacher. But that's actually part of the setup of studying the self, is to be in situations that make you aware that you are concerned about getting approval. So if the corporate environment makes you aware that you're concerned about getting positive reviews or positive views of yourself, that actually puts you in the situation that I say is difficult.

[04:13]

And it's difficult then to watch and notice, oh, I seem to be quite concerned about whether I get how people see me. Well, people usually are, but they don't necessarily notice it. Like people get dressed to go to school. Maybe not little kids, but some even... Some kids get their clothes on and they're concerned about how the other kids will feel about the outfit they're wearing. And they kind of want to wear clothes that the other kids will approve of, even maybe in elementary school and high school, maybe even more. People are concerned with how they wear their hair or how people will see them. It's not usually called corporate environment, but it's a social situation where people are very concerned about how other people see them. Now to have the teaching that being aware of that is the path of freedom is what I'm bringing up today. So it's not that

[05:15]

It is that when you're in a situation where you notice you're concerned about yourself and how you're seen, when you notice that, that is the difficult and essential work of becoming free. Because the main problem we have is that we are kind of afraid of being disapproved of in some social situation. social friendships, marriages, parent-child relationship. Children are afraid of being disapproved of by their parents. And parents are oftentimes afraid of being disapproved of by their children. Parents often do not want to say no to their children. When they know they're saying no, the child will wince at or feel bad about it. I do not like to say no when my But to be aware of that I'm concerned about whether they'll like me or not, that's my work.

[06:29]

If I have that feeling and I can address that compassionately, this is the path of freedom. But if you're in an environment where people won't even let you look and notice what's going on with you, that makes it even harder. But actually in corporate situations, it might be the case that when someone is reviewing you, they know you might be nervous. They may not want you to tell them that you're nervous. But in the situation of, for example, of studying something like Zen, students tell me that they're nervous and I kind of encourage them to do so. I say, I appreciate your honesty of telling me that you're nervous. And then they say, and I'm seeking your approval. I say, it's good to tell me that. Most human beings do want approval by other human beings. You know, we grow up in a situation, we have a long history of living in groups, and if the group approves of us, they might support us, and if they support us, that's kind of helpful.

[07:38]

But they might push us out of the group, and being pushed out of the group could be dangerous. Horses do that too. Like little baby, little colts are jumping all over the place. The mothers do not. My understanding is that horse herds are matriarchal. And little baby horses, colts, when they're jumping all over the place and being very frisky and undisciplined, the mothers do not push them out. And usually there's actually a head matriarch who disciplines the group. She does not push the cult. They get to be teenagers or adolescents. They will be ostracized from the group if they misbehave, if they get too wild. And when they get ostracized outside the group, they're in danger of predators. If the horse is in that herd, wolf to get in there.

[08:41]

They can do it, but it's hard. So they get scared when they get pushed out. So we're like that too. We're afraid of being pushed out of our safe, supportive environment because people disapprove of our performance behavior. That's normal. What's not so normal, what's kind of extraordinary, is to steadily study that. Not just notice that you're nervous, but look to see, well, who is it that I'm nervous about? Who is the I that's nervous? Who is the me that's nervous? What am I nervous about? What does it feel like to be afraid? And how is that being afraid connected to my self? Is there self-clinging there? you will become, just to make a short story, if you study this deeply, you will become free of fear and free of self-concern.

[09:56]

And you will open to Buddha's wisdom. But it's not just in corporate environments, it's in normal human environments. A bunch of ladies playing bridge are concerned about being proved about what they wear, about how they take care of their kids. They're concerned about approval of their friends. That's normal. But are they studying? Are they looking kindly, compassionately? What is this self? What is this clinging? Is there clinging? And how is the suffering and fear connected to the clinging? And I wonder if I wasn't clinging, if there wasn't clinging, would there be freedom? From the Buddhist teaching that if there wasn't clinging to this self, people could review me all day and I would just splash in the pitch black lacquer bucket. There could be freedom, but this is hard work to study this.

[10:58]

But the fact that you notice this and feel some discomfort around that, that's like being in a Zen training temple. But maybe it's good to come to Zen Center occasionally so that I can encourage you and tell you this is how to extend the study of self into your day of corporate world. And I would say the same thing to a teacher, because teachers are also, teachers are in the relationship to students. The students want the teachers to approve of them and give them good grades, but the teachers also want to get approval from the other teachers and from the principal. Everybody's into this. The matriarch is also concerned of whether she's going to be approved of by the other mayors. And the stallions are approved of by the mayors.

[12:03]

All social animals have this situation. But they also have the possibility of enlightenment. OK? You're welcome. Anything else to discuss? Could you come up, please, and sit here? It's on, yeah. It's on. Test. Oh, OK. OK. All right, my question was, I asked yesterday about positive states of mind. Just a little bit? Yeah, yeah. Okay, now try it. Test. Can you guys hear me? Okay. You asked about? Positive states of mind and cultivating them.

[13:04]

Yes. Like, let's say, loving kindness or gratitude. Yes. Something like that. His entree, he's talking about practicing loving-kindness. He's talking about practicing, may all beings be happy, at peace. May all beings be free of suffering and stress. May all beings be buoyant. That cultivation. And also cultivating gratitude. So there's such practices. seems like they would take away from the study of self. Like I'm visualizing a reality in the present moment and how to, like how to, is that a contradiction? You don't have to visualize the beings being happy. You don't have to do that. It's okay to do it. You could imagine, oh, look at all those happy people. Or you could even look out here and say, oh, I'm imagining these people. they're so happy look at me smiling he's happy everybody say you're happy right yes you can do that or you can just not say anything just sort of i think they're i think they're actually happy but that's different from i wish you'd be happy even if you're not happy now i still wish you'd be happy and i wish i want you to be happy

[14:21]

Whether or not you're happy now, I still want you to be happy. And if you say, don't talk to me that way anymore, I'll silently think, I hope you'll be happy. It's not necessarily imagining something in the future. It's right now, I want people to be happy. You can do it that way. But you can do it the other way too. The other way is still pretty good. But wishing in some ways is better than imagining that they are. Yeah, yeah. Because you can wish even if it doesn't look like they are. So that wishing, and you're thinking, maybe that wishing takes you away from studying the self. And I would say, generally speaking, once you get into it, you calm down. And you notice, well, I'm wishing people to be happy, but I'm still kind of concerned. And I wish myself to be happy. I wish myself to be happy. I really would. I'm okay with me being happy. I wish everybody else would be too.

[15:22]

And also I notice I'm a little bit concerned about what people think of me. When you calm down, that kind of meditation calms you down. And when you calm down, you start to notice there's somebody here who is wishing. Who is it that's wishing? And do I have any attachment to that? And that kind of positive meditation tends to make your mind clearer and calmer and clearer. And you notice the subtle thing is that you think there's somebody there who's wishing that. And you're concerned about that guy. You want him to be happy, but you want him to be happy. You want him to be happy, fine. But you're also afraid that he might That's not the same. Wishing people to be happy is not the same as being afraid that they won't be. And especially wishing yourself to be happy is not the same as being afraid that you won't be or that people won't like you. I wish I'd be happy even if everybody doesn't like me. I would be happy even if everybody hates him.

[16:24]

I want that person to be happy no matter how many people hate him. And I know he's very unpopular and I still would like him to be happy. Matter of fact, I'm one of the people who hate him. And my hate, my hate upsets me. So I have to wish him to be happy so I can, my hate can calm down so I can study myself. So this kind of loving-kindness can be a very helpful meditation to prepare yourself to your own self-concern and your own self-clinging. And you continue it. And while you're noticing it, which is kind of obnoxious, You know, like, I'm wishing these people to be happy, and I notice that I'm also thinking that I'm one of the best good people around. Like, you know, these other people are not wishing people to be happy. I am, though. These people are, like, really, like, low quality.

[17:28]

I wish them to be happy, but none of the people I wish to be happy are anywhere near as good as me. You know, because, in fact, they're all fighting each other, right? They're really mean, mean, grisly little... I wish them all to be happy. And I'm doing this great thing, and I'm quite a bit better than any of the people I'm wishing to be happy. And, oh, I heard that there's some clinging there. And there's a precept which says I shouldn't be looking down on these people to wish well. But the well-wishing helps me notice that I think I'm better than the people who are not wishing well. A lot of people like that, right? They do good, and they think the people who are not doing good are not as good as them. Well, that's one of our main precepts to not get into trouble, of thinking that when you're doing good, you're better than the people who aren't. But if you don't do good, you might not notice that you think you're better than people who don't.

[18:31]

So do good. So you can notice that you think you're better than people. And then be kind to that person because he's better than the evildoers. I went to visit somebody one time and they were telling me about their religion and about all these good things that they were doing and I thought, great. And they started out the meeting by giving me a big basket of food from Trader Joe's. I said, thank you. ...in this book about their religion and all these good things they're doing and they told me about... And I said, great. And then they started talking about the evil people. And I said, wait a minute. Are these evil people something other than us? Turns out they were. There was the good people, right? And then there was the evil people who weren't as good as the good people. And then I said, well, actually, I got to go now. And I took my Trader Joe's stuff with me. In all their literature, which talked about doing good, in the literature it didn't talk about the evil people.

[19:38]

That's esoteric. So we wish people well, and we notice sometimes that we're wishing people well, and we think we're a little bit better than some of the people we're wishing well. And that's the thing we have. That's where the problem is. But the wishing well helps. And once again, This painful detail. Keep wishing well because wishing well makes you happy so you can stand to see the self-clinging which is not pleasant to see. Your own self-clinging is not pleasant to see and seeing other people's self-clinging is not pleasant to see. So we want to generate lots of positive energy and joy so we can stand to see how painful it is to be self-concerned You know, I have a long story to tell you about that one, about me. You want to hear it? It's really a long story.

[20:42]

Can you stand him? Okay, so this is like 40, well, this January, it'll be 45 years ago. I was in the mountains in a monastery. And it was raining. It rained and rained and rained and rained. It was January, February, March. Raining all the time. The roads got washed out, so we couldn't get any food into the monastery. We had food, but basically we just had brown rice and wheat berries. Vegetables we had were wild vegetables like curly dock and miner's lettuce. So we ran out of flour and oil. But still, before we ran out, we had still enough ingredients so we could occasionally make a little bread. Most of our food was just basically liquid.

[21:44]

There was nothing you could really bite. And then one day, word got out that we were going to have croutons in the soup. Not just soup with almost no taste, but something to bite anyway. And I was looking forward to having some croutons in my soup. I didn't notice at that time, oh, you're self-confident. You're concerned about you getting some croutons. I didn't notice that. I was self-concerned, but I didn't notice. Hey, man, you are noticing. You're noticing what you should be noticing. Self-concern. Me getting croutons. Where? I was not aware. I was so concerned. I was so greedy about the croutons. I didn't notice that I was greedy for the croutons for me.

[22:50]

I wasn't greedy for everybody to get croutons. I wasn't like, oh, I hope everybody gets some croutons. I wanted me to get some croutons. Something's funny here. I'm concerned with this monk getting the croutons. I'm not concerned, oh, I hope all the monks get lots of croutons. So anyway, the soup was coming. Croutons. Croutons. It was coming up the row. I was watching it coming. And then over on the other side, there was another, the server was bringing the pot of soup with the croutons. It was getting closer to me. On the other side, there was a person serving the soup. And I knew that from experience that this person, the way he served the soup is he scooped from the top and the croutons sunk to the bottom. And I knew he was going to, when he served, I knew he would serve just this thin soup from the top and no croutons.

[23:56]

And he was coming up around the other side. And he was coming fast. And I thought, oh, I don't know if this, this guy here was a kind of deep dipper that goes down and gets all the good stuff in the bottom. He's coming, this guy, he's coming faster and faster. And then finally the guy who serves got to me first. And I was actually pretty unhappy with that. And then he did scoot from the top and there were no croutons. And then of course the servers get just all croutons. And when I left the meditation hall after lunch I was crying. And I was not crying because I didn't get croutons. I was crying because I went to the monastery to practice the Buddha Way.

[25:00]

And I had been reduced to my own self-concern about getting some croutons. And I could see how petty, how incredibly petty I was. I mean, like, how much more petty? I mean, there was soup, but I wanted to get the croutons. And that set up. And that was not pleasant to see. I cried, but it was such a good lesson about me. It showed me that there's nobody below me. Nobody's more selfish than me. And this is not a happy thing to see. But that's what Zen practice is about, to show me that I'm the most selfish person, or I'm as selfish as they come anyway. I'm not even the most selfish. I'm just as selfish as they come and like me. But some people would not even notice that.

[26:06]

They'd notice it and say, yeah, I'm so selfish. I really didn't mind not getting the croutons, but I didn't mind being so selfish. But I also thought, what I'm here for is to be humbled, is to be humiliated by realizing that I am a self-centered, clinging person. And never forget that. And be loving to that person. I don't hate myself for that. I love myself and I love other people who are concerned about croutons. And I want them to love themselves so they can keep studying themselves, studying the person who wants to get croutons for me and my kids and my friends. This is the study. And we need to support that. It's hard. And practicing loving kindness supports it.

[27:10]

Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Wasn't that a long story? Anything else this morning? Yes, please come. Hello? Okay. Hello. So by not abiding by our thoughts, when it comes to something like, for example, sadness, you can notice... I guess, clinging to the self, but in also allowing yourself to honor that feeling? Totally! Honor the sadness. Welcome it. The sadness is there to help you let go of something so you can notice something more basic that you're holding on to. Sadness is to be welcomed. And when you open to the sadness, you let go of something else that's distracting you. that you should have let go of a while ago.

[28:13]

Sadness is a sign of health. It's saying, you're holding on to something, but you don't necessarily know what it is, so just feel the sadness. And then over here you let go of something, and now you're ready to study even better. Any of the kinds of feelings you have, if you're not kind to them, then your unkindness to them will distract you from your study of yourself, from the core issue of clinging. Yes, come. And while she's coming I want to tell you another story before she gets here. And that is there's a story about in the middle of a Zen meditation hall we often have this figure who we call Manjushri. It's a Sanskrit name.

[29:15]

Manjushri Bodhisattva. The enlightening being of sweet splendor. Manjushri means sweet splendor or glorious sweetness. It's the Bodhisattva of perfect wisdom. So in one scripture, somebody says to Manjushri, you are the most enlightened. You are the most... Of all, and Manjushri said, you should know that I'm the most deluded and the most selfish of all. That's what it takes to be wise. Yes. You're right. I notice I'm a lot more self-conscious now that I'm sitting up here. Yeah. And you come here to notice that and be kind to that. Thank you. So I've been doing this sort of self-study that you're doing for several years, and I've discovered a lot of interesting things.

[30:24]

And the key that I'm, I think, looking for at this point, you've touched on a little bit, and I'm wondering if you will expand on, and that's the attachment part. fears or whatever feelings that are coming up and I think oh I'm really afraid of this or oh my habit is to do this or that but then I think oh that's my habit me and habit and I feel like it's I'm still not letting it go so the attachment part is there You just said, I become the habit. You could also say, I have the I-habit. There is the I-habit. And the I-habit. I am the I-habit. So when you become the I-habit, you've actually just arrived at the normal situation of consciousness.

[31:31]

That is the I-habit. Consciousness has the I-habit. and well-established, it seems like we're stuck in it or attached to it. And then there's some feeling like, well, without the I-habit, it wouldn't be good not to have the I-habit. There's some feeling like that. Because, in fact, without I, there wouldn't be consciousness. And consciousness is quite handy. Because that's where we learn everything. We learn English, Chinese, algebra, tango, cooking, and Buddhism. That's where we learn. So we think, and we know, actually, you won't be able to learn anymore. So it wouldn't be good to lose consciousness. And if you lose self, you lose consciousness. So there's some sense that losing consciousness, losing the self, wouldn't be good.

[32:36]

And in a way, that's right. Losing attachment to it is fine. But there's some feeling like if you attach to it, maybe that will protect you from being lost. which it does seem to protect it from being lost, but it causes all these problems. So how about dropping the attachment and let the self be there, or let the self be there without attaching? That's the thing we're trying to learn. Yeah, how do we do that? Yeah. You do it by practicing kindness towards that towards the fear and all the turbulence that's around the self. You practice kindness towards the sense of I have to protect this otherwise I'll lose the self and lose consciousness. You have to be kind to that and you have to hear teachings which say actually you won't go unconscious if you don't attach to this.

[33:38]

The end of consciousness. Because like I said, every night you go into dreamless sleep, you lose consciousness, it's not a problem. It comes back. If you do lose consciousness by losing the self, it's not the end of the story. It's just a little break, which is sleep. Then it comes back. Now if you're awake and there's a self and you're not attached to it, no attachment, just self, you're conscious, And you're free and happy. And you're a dancing, singing, fearless woman who has a self in that space. But you're not attached to this woman or the self or her approval rating. And she doesn't have an approval rating. There's always an approval rating. You're always approved at some level. Like 30% people approve you right now in this room. How many percent approve of you?

[34:42]

And now it's 65 and 35. It's constantly changing, you know. Right now, a certain number of people here think you're beautiful, and some other people think you're kind of like average. You know? Everybody here thinks you're beautiful, but outside, somebody doesn't. That's always the case. But if you study your concern for how many people think you're beautiful and you're kind to it, you will be ready to sort of say, well, who is the person you're approving of? Who is the beautiful one? Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all? Is it me? It is me! It's not me. Either way, I'm like, okay, because I have been being concerned for my beauty, and I am now free of concern about my beauty, and this is where it's at.

[35:49]

This is like Buddha's wisdom. Now I can see everybody is my life, and my life is everybody. Now I'm an enlightened person. And now that's over, and now here's another self. with new clinging, with me to be kind to. So when you notice the self and self-concern, when you notice the self and fear about the self, when you notice the self-habit and you think it's all so yucky and you want to get out of here, all this passion towards generosity, ethical discipline, patience, and diligence, and tranquility. We practice with the self and all the trouble around it. And then we'll see. Then we'll ask. Who are you? Oh, you're an idea. Wow. That's all. I don't have to protect the idea.

[36:51]

It can be here. And if anybody says, what's your name? You can tell them, what's your name? Yeah, Jenny. And you don't have to hold on to the self to answer that question. You can also say, I forgot. And I can say, Fine. You know? You can live with that and not be afraid. What if I forget my name? What if somebody asks me what my name is and I can't remember? Would that be okay? Would people approve of me? Some would, some wouldn't. And either way, I'm like, okay, because I have been studying this and I'm free of this self-concern because I've been so kind to it from looking at what I'm concerned about. And finding out that what I'm concerned about is just a mental construction. And the mind's going to keep producing it. I don't have to worry about it.

[37:53]

It's going to be conjuring up this self and making consciousness. And if it turns consciousness off, well, I won't be able to practice, but there'll be no suffering. And then if the mind conjures up a self again and I practice with it, there'll be freedom. And there's a great joy in freedom and also the joy of teaching other people how to study their self. But the way to do it is you have to deal with the realization that there's some trouble around the self. Right? So now be kind to the self and the trouble that accompanies it. The self always comes with self-pride, which is trouble, self-love, self-delusion, and self-confusion. When there's a self, it comes with four basic varieties of troubles. And we hear a teaching which says, be kind to all this trouble. Be generous with it.

[38:54]

Be careful of it. Be patient with it. Be diligent in taking care of this trouble. And when you take care of the trouble, things will calm down. And then you can see that the center of the trouble is nothing to worry about and nothing to attach to. You actually can't find it. And then we have what's called wisdom and freedom. And this is the path that it actually works. And you can actually realize enlightenment. And the so-called enlightened ancestors have taught this and they said, we practice this. The Buddha said, I practice this way and now I'm a Buddha. Which means, I understand the self. It's nothing to grasp. And therefore, with no grasping the self, there's no suffering. But it isn't that we get rid of the self. It's that we understand it. And understanding the self, the Buddha called no-self. In other words, when you understand the self, it's nothing like what you thought it was.

[39:58]

Because what you thought it was is nothing like what you thought it was. I mean, you thought it was something other than just what you thought. But it's not. It's only what you think. And nobody can, you can't protect that, you can't maintain it, but it gets conjured up again and again. So, is that like clear? Is that like hard? Maybe, not necessarily, it might be easy for you, you might be one of the people that's easy for, and that's allowed. See you later, Jenny. I'll remember your name. Okay, what time is it? It's 20 to 1? And that's, the Eno says late, so let's go.

[40:44]

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