On Sunday, I brought up this expression, about expression, from the, it's from the section called the Self-Receiving and Employing Samadhi section of a work that's called Bendowa, which means negotiating the way or wholehearted path. And so the expression is when even for a short time you express the Buddha seal in your three actions, body, speech, and mind actions, by sitting upright in samadhi, the whole phenomenal world becomes the Buddha's seal and the whole sky turns into enlightenment.

[01:12]

And then it goes on, as you know, to say all kinds of other wonderful things that happen when the whole phenomenal world becomes the Buddha seal, which is short for Buddha mind seal. And I wrote this character in the middle. The middle character is the character which is translated as express. Can you see the middle one? This is the one that's in the discussion of the self-receiving and employing samadhi, this one. And this side, you can't always do this, but anyway, this side, the radical is a radical for tree. And down here is a radical to indicate

[02:24]

So that character means a mark, a signal, a flag, a streamer, a notice or to put up a notice. And I think this is, to me, I didn't think of practice as like, I did think of practice as entering, from early days of practice, I thought practice, oh yeah, we enter into a state of calm, undistracted awareness.

[03:28]

That made sense to me. But the idea that sitting in this calm awareness, then one puts up a notice or that one puts up a flag or that one is a flag. One is a notice in the world. It did make sense to me that one would be that when you sit upright and still and calm, that if people see that, they would notice that somebody was sitting like that. People notice a calm person. And some people actually sit to show people that, to show people the calm. But this is... not just to show calm, but to show the Buddha mind, to demonstrate, to express the Buddha mind in a way that is actually like expressing it in a way that people see.

[04:44]

And that the idea that in samadhi, when your posture is put forth as a signal or as a notice of the Buddha mind seal, that that expression, that when that happens, the whole world becomes that expression. I think it's rather a different way of thinking about practice that you're, that what you're saying is raising a flag, the Buddha Mind Seal flag.

[05:46]

That you're walking and you're sitting is expressing that. And it's not just to express it, but to express it so that the whole phenomenal world becomes it. And then in the Bhukan Zazengi, in the translation of word chanting it says, practice a way that directly indicates the absolute. So again it's saying, practice a way that indicates, that points. And I wrote the characters there. The first character means direct over on that far side of the board for me. That first character means direct or straight.

[06:52]

And the second character, I think that character means finger, doesn't it? No. Second character means finger, but also means to point or indicate. And in the original, the way I read the original and the way some people translate it is not practice a way that directly indicates the absolute, but practice a direct way which directly points. It doesn't say anything about the absolute. It says, as some other characters, direct path, practice a direct path, a direct path that directly points. So if one practiced a path all the time, in no matter what one was doing, that would be, then each thing you did would be a direct, straightforward pointing, a direct, straightforward pointing.

[08:07]

Now I'm not saying that this, I'm not disagreeing that it's pointing towards something really important, but just to point out that the original doesn't, it just says a direct path of direct pointing, a straightforward path of direct pointing. It doesn't say towards what. What does it mean, the entire phenomenal world? How does that phrase go, the entire phenomenal world becomes that posture that we're sitting in? It becomes the Buddha mind. It becomes the Buddha seal. And I also wrote the character on this side. That character is the character that is translated as seal or mudra. And... can reach the feeling or discrimination we can't experience.

[09:11]

We can't experience it, but — No, we cannot perceive it. It's not within — we cannot feel it. We cannot discriminate it. Conscious thought cannot reach it. But it is our experience. Our actual life is our — our life is an experience. But the word experience is a word that sometimes people use for perception. Perception is a very reduced version of our experience. Our life experience includes perceptions. So once again, it says, the whole phenomenal world becomes the Buddha's seal and the entire sky turns into enlightenment. And then it goes on and tells you about these the various doings of this samadhi. And then it says, all this, however, does not appear within perception.

[10:12]

And it actually doesn't appear within, I'm suggesting, it does not appear within experience. It's not an appearance. The Buddha mind is not an appearance. It's not an appearance. It is experience. It's our true experience. It's not a perception, but it's the true nature of all our perceptions. And so it's that statement that we were referring to initially, we talked about the world. Is it saying that from the perspective of... The whole phenomenal world. Phenomenal world, I think in this case, the character actually is a character that's used for dharma. So the word dharma can be referred to phenomena. But you could also say the word Dharma is referring to the truth.

[11:20]

But the translation of phenomenal world means the things which we do perceive, the things that are known by consciousnesses or by minds, those are phenomena. So like this UPS truck is driving out and it says worldwide I didn't plan on seeing that word on the side of the truck. I just saw a truck and I thought, well, there's a phenomena. When your actions are putting up the flag of the Buddha Mine Seal, then the UPS truck is also. It becomes the Buddha Mind Seal. When your actions, when all your actions are raising the flag of the Buddha Mind Seal, then everybody's actions are doing the same.

[12:27]

And when I make exceptions and say that, well, this action this action isn't expressed in the Buddha Mind Seal. Or I forget. I either reject this action as expressing the Buddha Mind Seal, or I see somebody else do something and I say, that's not expressing the Buddha Mind Seal. If I say you sometimes don't express the Buddha mind seal in your actions, then I'm going to think that I sometimes don't. And if I think I sometimes don't, then I'm going to think you sometimes don't. Also, even if I don't directly oppose that practice, if I forget the practice, then I forget the practice. If I forget that my actions are for the sake of expressing the Buddha mind still, then I forget that that's what your actions are about.

[13:30]

But when I do remember and I do offer my actions as raising the flag of the Buddha mind seal, then everybody, then everything, then all the people, all your actions, all the plants and animals, all the terrible things, are raising the Buddha mind seal. Without changing them, without saying, well, cruelty is not cruelty. It's just so that cruelty is reminding me of my work. And I'm reminded by what's happening of my work because I'm remembering that my action is that work. And it's really hard. I shouldn't say really hard. Yeah, I'll just say it's really hard to remember in each moment. And again, it says even for a short period of time, in the moment, all your actions, in the moment, wholeheartedly,

[14:32]

devote yourself to a way, to a straightforward way that directly points. So it's a way, a direct way that's pointing in each moment. When you're sitting in the zendo, again, maybe that's easier to understand. Okay, we're sitting in the zendo. This posture is pointing to the Buddha's posture. And some people translate when you, when even for a moment you express the Buddha's posture, that word, this word here, For mudra, it can also be, it means posture, right? It means posture. It means a seal. It means a mark. The Buddha mind mark, the Buddha mind symbol, the Buddha mind flag. That doesn't mean flag. The other one does.

[15:35]

The Buddha mind posture, the Buddha posture. So when you sit in the zendo, in a way, maybe it makes sense. You're sitting in the posture that the Buddha made. of the Buddha sitting. But all day long, when you're in many other postures, practice a way that each one of these postures is pointing to the Buddha posture. And when you're talking, your speech is pointing to the Buddha posture. And when you're thinking, this thought, this difficult thought, Yeah, that difficult thought, this easy thought, all these thoughts are pointing to the Buddha mind. Then the whole phenomenal world joins that. That's the proposal. And so I'm starting today by reminding that, emphasizing that, and saying,

[16:40]

that I think is kind of an unfamiliar way of thinking about life and practice. Isn't it? And how do you feel about the statement of when even for a moment you express the Buddha mind seal in your three actions of body, speech, and mind by sitting upright in samadhi. Yes. You could say that, you could say then you realize and You could say it that way. And then another way which is closely related, using the word realize, is not that, another slightly different way to say it is that,

[17:56]

when you, even for a moment, express the Buddha mind seal in your three actions by sitting upright in samadhi, the whole phenomenal world realizes. So one way is then you realize. The other way is the whole phenomenal world realizes. It's both ways. That's how the whole world realizes it, is when somebody practices. And if I don't practice, then I don't realize. And the only way to realize is practice. And then again we have this pivot, which is when you practice carrying a self, that's delusion. When the whole world practices you, that's enlightenment.

[18:58]

But they're both pivoting on you or the self. Delusion and enlightenment are together there, just two different perspectives on the practice. I'm doing it, it's doing me. They're both there. It's not like we eliminate I'm doing it. We don't eliminate delusion. We just understand that it's just a perspective. And so is enlightenment. Yes. What makes, what decides which action expressing with the mind still? In other words, if I'm sitting like that, Sealing posture itself is the same, but thinking about harming other people or like even the same action could be different. And the intention is something to do with this. If I think of harming someone, that's a thought in my mind, okay?

[20:02]

I think it says, express the Buddha seal in all your actions or all your, all three actions. So again, that means you're thinking, but does it just mean some thoughts? No, I would suggest all thoughts. Rather than like, thoughts are going through my mind and I'm waiting for a good one to use. I don't think it's that way. I don't skip over them. That wouldn't be a good one. Oh, there's a good one. Now, I'm thinking of being kind to people. So this thought I will use to express the Buddha mindset. Yeah, I agree. Now a thought to harm people comes up. It's not that thinking of harming people is the Buddha way. It's just that that thought can be used to point to the Buddha way. I'm a cruel person.

[21:06]

I'm sorry, I'm a cruel person. But I'm here to point to something that's not cruel. Even when I'm cruel, I still want to point to kindness. Even when I'm forgetful, I want to point to not forgetting. even when I'm not patient. Okay, it seems like I'm not patient right now. Okay. What's the practice? Directly point to the Buddha mind, which is patient. Right now, I want to be a bodhisattva, but I don't think I'm acting like one, but I want to be one. And I want to say, I want to be one. I'm pointing to the bodhisattva. And I'm not going to wait until I till I'm worse or till I'm better. I'm going to use this moment. And I'm not going to wait till I have a sitting upright more.

[22:08]

I'm going to do it bent and then maybe I'll sit up straight and do it sitting up straight. Okay. Now I'm sitting up straight. Now I'm going to, again, I'm going to have this posture point. This posture is pointing to the Buddha mind seal. This posture is pointing to the Buddha mind seal. This posture. This posture. Not like, this is and this isn't and this is. This is pointing. This is not the Buddha mind seal. This is not the Buddha mind seal. And this is not pointing to the Buddha Mind Seal unless you say so. And saying so is hard because sometimes we're more interested in scratching our temple than we are to express the Buddha Mind Seal.

[23:15]

I'm tired of expressing the Buddha Mind Seal. But when I say I'm tired of expressing the Buddha mind seal, I want to use that statement to point to the Buddha mind seal. But these things don't point — we're practicing a way with whatever the thing is, we use that thing as the opportunity to practice a way. If we're discouraged, being discouraged isn't the Buddha mind seal. The Buddha mind seal is the Buddha mind. Buddha mind is not discouraged. But when I'm discouraged, I want to practice a way that points. When I'm encouraged, I want to practice a way that directly indicates encouragement. which is encouragement to embrace all beings when they're encouraged or not encouraged.

[24:20]

So when I'm not encouraged or I am encouraged in both cases, there's a way that indicates the Buddha way. And I want to join that way. It isn't that strange. And it's also about unceasing, Okay, it also says, in this samadhi, this unceasing, unceasing, unceasing, unstoppable, uninterrupted. Okay, so I think I'm asking you, and you're raising your hands now, so I'll call on you to see how you feel about this kind of surprising practice. So I see, I saw Devin and Leon. Is that Leon? Who is that? Oh, it's Francis and Al. Anybody else have your hands up?

[25:21]

John? Hmm? Vatya. Vatya. Ready, Devon. I was just picking up on what you just said about intention. So even with what seemed like the file of thoughts and actions and speech, If there's an intention to have that speech be what's to the good of one, if there's an intention for destruction and forgetfulness to take away, then that's the practice. That's that. Thank you. Did you say, if there's an intention, that's the practice? No. No. But there could be the intention.

[26:24]

Whatever you said the intention was, there could be such an intention. Okay? Let's just take the one you said. the intention that you said was practice, I'm saying that's not practice. Practice is, in this case, to use that intention to express the Buddha mind. The practice is actually to use whatever intention you've got to express the Buddha's mind, seal. So you could have another intention, like, I think actually I'm going to take a vacation from practice. I think I'm going to actually not express the Buddha mind seal for a little while. That could be an intention. That's not practice. But using that thought, using that action to express the Buddha mind seal, that's the practice that's being pointed to here. It's correct in that

[27:30]

one of the translations describes this samadhi as beyond human agency. This isn't something that you're doing. This is the practice which is not my practice or your practice. It's the part of my life that's the same as your life. It's the way we're practicing the same. That practice is not my practice. But the way I'm practicing the same as you is this practice. And that is beyond human agency. It's not something you can do, and it's also not something you can avoid, but it is something you can be distracted from. It is something you can forget. It is something that you can just miss the opportunity of whatever the — every moment, all these three actions, they're actually basically all intentions.

[28:39]

Three types of intention. Intention of thought, which is the basis of intention expressed in speech and posture. They're all intentions. They themselves are phenomena. So we use whatever the phenomena is And there's no exception in the practice. You use it for practice, a practice that directly indicates the Buddha mind, which includes and it transcends all these phenomena. Francis? So like in a simple literal understanding, I would say when Rev is expressing his reactions by sitting up right in Samadhi, then Francis, Francis's jacket, Francis's clothes turn into him. I don't really know what that would mean.

[29:42]

Did you just say? I'm wondering if what you're saying is that. When you said it, you kind of missed one point, though. You said that if I express the three actions, Yeah, I do. Of course I do that. Whenever, if I'm sitting, no matter what I'm doing, I'm expressing these three actions. So that's going on all the time. Yeah, whenever I'm expressing my actions. But this is saying... Yeah, but you missed the point about expressing the Buddha mind seal by those actions.

[30:47]

It's not just that I'm talking to you now, which I am, and thinking about talking to you, which I am. It's that I am mindful that my talking to you is pointing to the Buddha mind seal. Then the whole phenomenal world also points to the Buddha mind seal. But my actions don't become the actions of the whole phenomenal world. My action don't... My thinking blue does not become you thinking blue. Right. Which is what the statement sounds like. But me thinking, but me pointing to the Buddha mind seal becomes you pointing to the Buddha mind seal.

[31:56]

From your perspective. No, no perspective. There's no perspective here. Because my experience is when Rinpoche is expressing the Buddha mind seal, Your perception. No, it's your perception. So I disagree with you. Your perception is that you do not turn into enlightenment. This statement is saying, Yeah, so what I'm saying is that you seem to be talking from the point of view of perception, and I'm talking from the point of view of experience, which is not perception. I'm talking about something that's imperceptible. I'm talking about the statement to me sounds like it's suggesting that your actions are influencing the whole phenomenal world.

[33:01]

Well, that's true too. Your actions are influencing the whole phenomenal world, and my actions are influencing the whole phenomenal world. And if my actions are unkind, that has a certain unfortunate influence on the phenomenal world. Yeah, I get interdependence, but it's implying that the world turned into enlightenment. I don't buy it. I don't buy that the whole world and the entire sky turned into O.D., No, it's not from my experience, it's from experience, which isn't mine. I'm speaking from experience which is not my experience. But it's our experience. I'm speaking from our experience, not from my perception and your perception. I'm speaking from an imperceptible experience of mutual assistance.

[34:08]

I'm speaking from where you and I are helping each other all day long. That's where I'm speaking from. Or I'm a mouthpiece for that kind of experience. What happens? Then the whole phenomenal world does not realize the Buddha mind field. The Buddha mind seal is the way the Buddha understands we all are together. Right? It's the Buddha's understanding. They don't understand it in the sense of they don't perceive it.

[35:13]

But they realize it. Like a dance doesn't perceive a dance. It realizes it. it expresses it. And without dancing, you don't realize dance. It's just an idea. So the Buddha Mind Seal is this imperceptible mutual assistance. It's the way we're all working together on the Bodhisattva way. And if somebody disagrees with that, that's the way they're working on it. I mean, yeah, that's the way they're working on it. But it's imperceptible how they're working on it anyway. If they agree, that's how they're working on it. But their agreement with the bodhisattva way is not actually how it's working. How it's working is imperceptible. And how it's actually working is our life experience.

[36:19]

And you could say, I don't buy it, And then you could say, me feeling like I'm not buying it, I wish to use that feeling that I'm not buying it to express the Buddha mind seal. And then I would say to you, the whole phenomenal world just joins you in that expression. Or you could say, I do buy it. But if you don't use I do buy it as an opportunity for this expression, then the whole phenomenal world does not realize the Buddha mind seal. Practicing the three actions by sitting up and writing Samadhi is Samadhi.

[37:33]

And Samadhi is highly recommended. And then now that we're in Samadhi, there's something else you can do. sort of to bring the samadhi to the level of expressing Buddha's wisdom. So this is a kind of wisdom work that we're doing, but it's in a kind of unusual form called expressing the Buddha mind seal in these actions which are living in samadhi. Welcome. Who was next? There was John, Al, Bhatia, Catherine, Dina, and Keoni. Help me remember all those names. So I think maybe Al was next, Al or John.

[38:37]

So there's no way out. There's no way out, no. Because this situation is imperceptible, we have no way to get away from it. The imperceptible mutual assistance of the bodhisattva way, you can't get away from it. You don't know where to go to get away from it. Also, you can't go towards it. So what we do is we use where we are, which we can't get away from either, rather than going someplace else and using that In a way, the problem was to express something that words can't reach. To use words to express something that words can't reach. Words can go. Well, that's why it's like I use words to realize something that words don't reach. Mm-hmm.

[39:40]

It's not easy. I use words as a flag to signal something that the words cannot reach. Yes? This particular realization is not something you do by yourself. But you have to do your part, and your part is to be responsible for your actions. to sit upright, walk upright, to be responsible for your actions, and also to offer your actions to realize the Buddha way. If I'm not responsible for my actions, I'm not yet ready to make any offering of my actions. Just like if I don't have my feet on the ground, I'm not ready to lift the flag up. So I put my feet on the ground and feel what it's like. Okay, now I'm ready to now raise the flag, the Dharma flag.

[40:43]

And this raising of the flag does not reach the Dharma. But if I don't raise the flag, the Dharma is not realized. Then I'm just in the realm where I do stuff and don't do stuff, which I can perceive. I can perceive I'm talking. No, I'm not. But I cannot perceive how everybody's helping me and how I'm helping everybody on the Buddha way. But I can offer the things I do perceive as all of them directly pointing to something that's imperceptible. So if I'm pointing, try to point all the time, it reduces Well, you could say it reduces them, but the pointing actually, in this particular case, it's saying point in samadhi.

[41:49]

In samadhi you've already pretty much taken care of the bad thoughts. Or I should say in samadhi… In samadhi you're taking good care of all the bad thoughts. So you're basically — here we've got a situation where you've taken good enough care of your thoughts so that you're in samadhi. You don't get into this samadhi unless you take good care of bad thoughts and good thoughts. So your reward for caring for your mind is now you're in samadhi. And any bad thoughts that arise there, samadhi will take good care of them. Now in that situation, Sorry, I don't understand, because samadhi is something to me like my darling, that disappears when these thoughts come. Samadhi disappears when thoughts come? Yeah, that's all. Like, maybe my experience is not yet far enough.

[42:55]

Yeah, so I think many people experience or perceive that if they're in the samadhi and they try to hold on to it, they lose it. But if you're in samadhi and the idea of holding on to it arises and you leave it alone, you don't lose it. I mean, if this idea arises, it's gone. Pardon? If this idea arises, it's gone. I don't know how to hold anything. Well, you just said it. You just said, how? And I said, it's gone. Here's a thought to hold on, you leave it alone, and then it's gone. That's how you take care of it. The samadhi is gone. No, not the samadhi. No, no. No, the thought's gone. The thought's gone. Yeah. When you're in samadhi and some idea to hold on to the samadhi arises and you let it be, which you can do in samadhi, the thought's gone.

[44:01]

Not the samadhi. But if you get involved in that thought, then you're distracted from the samadhi and samadhi's not distracted. If a thought gets a story or if a story arises and you get involved in the story, that's exactly what you did not do to get into samadhi. Samadhi, you get to go into samadhi when you don't get involved in your stories. So it's a question of training. Well, there is a question of training. So we have stories going on in our mind all the time. If you don't get involved in them, you let go of them, which means you're compassionate to them and so on, you're still with them, then you enter samadhi. Then in samadhi, when stories arise, now you have a really... it's going to be easier now to let them be. And so they just come up and go, pop, pop, story, pop, story, pop. What do you call it? Turbulent ocean, clearly observed. That's what happens in samadhi.

[45:06]

Yeah. But you don't have to say, OK, no waves here. And also, come on, waves. You don't have to do that. Waves will come. And then you surf them. And then there's like no waves. It's like, that's the samadhi. Now, in addition to being in a calm place where whatever comes, you just look at it and it goes, now you, in addition, are going to make every thought that arises that you treat that way, right away before it even goes away, you let everything express the Buddha mind seal. John? My question is addressed. Okay. You're on the list now. Let's see. Dina? Another way that I'm hearing this is that there's no specific phase to enlighten.

[46:09]

No particular face? No fixed face, no. Yeah. So going back to this and this being whatever position, I don't know. I think I just want clarification. Are you seeing your face to direct towards enlightenment, instead of seeing this, what I'm doing right now? Or how do you say it? So there's no specific face to enlightenment, but… Well, there's no fixed face. But I do see… Face? Yeah. I don't know. Ask Claire. My face isn't like chairs, like anything. Anything could be in my hair. Object of mind. So if I use my specific fixed face towards... It's not so much that you use your face, but that you use your facial expressions.

[47:22]

you use your facial karma. So if you go, whatever face you make, whatever karma you're doing with your face is a facial gesture. It's action, which you intended. Whatever it is, let that be an expression of the Buddha mind seal. Sometimes I'll take a walk and I'll want to smile at someone because I feel like I need to do that. But I also am like, oh, if I was an enlightened person, I would be focused on the ground. So I can feel myself being like, oh, this is what enlightenment looks like, or this is what I should be doing. Yeah, so that sounds like an example of your mental karma. You're thinking. So when you're thinking, when you're thinking about what enlightenment's like, that's an opportunity to have this thinking about enlightenment express the Buddha mind.

[48:34]

And then you think something else. Think about not enlightenment. And then use that karma to express the Buddha mind. so that the expression of the Buddha mind becomes unceasing because our activity is unceasing. Let's see, Kyunghee, Claudia, Catherine, Bhatia. I was wondering if the direct point is It can only happen in samadhi and whatever we do. No, you can point outside of samadhi too. You can point in samadhi and not in samadhi. But the recommendation is point in samadhi. Okay. So if we are not in samadhi,

[49:45]

I would say that, yeah, it's a thought in samadhi too. Because we're talking about, for example, if you have a thought, that you use that thought to express the Buddha mind or to point to the Buddha mind. If you're not in samadhi, the same. It's good to do it when you're not in samadhi also, so you get in practice for it. So it isn't like you're going to samadhi and, what am I supposed to do here? I just should continue what I was doing before. I was doing things before and dedicating my activity to the Buddha way before, and now I'm going to continue it in samadhi. So part of what we're talking about here is that the activities that occur in samadhi, even when they're the same as not in samadhi, they're different also. Right.

[51:13]

And, but, so this is describing a samadhi. The Buddha's mind is a samadhi. So part of the the quality of the mind in which this wisdom functions is described by samadhi. And then what can happen there includes everything and is possible because of samadhi. By the power of the samadhi, we get to see how things actually work. For example, that if we do this, the whole phenomenal world joins it. it's the same principle, it's just that we're harder to realize if we're not in samadhi. Let's see. Bhatia. Most of my questions you did answer. But I would like to take it into a practical way.

[52:20]

Because when you're practicing the intention to express the Buddha mind in, let's say, a troubled area, and it's kind of this... discouraging because you feel like you're in a drop in the samsara ocean and you want to sell sell the gold but nobody wants it so you're still practicing and you're still practicing and you get ignored and you're still practicing so yeah So, shall I practice? Shall I speak in practice? Or just say, it's much easier to practice in this beautiful place when I don't feel and engage in this troubled world.

[53:29]

So it's actually like excluding myself and say, oh, for my convenience, maybe I should go to a quiet place and disconnect that actually. Well, when you think, or when I think, maybe I should go to a quiet place, that's an example of an action, that thought. So this teaching is saying, when you think of going to a quiet place, express the Buddha mind seal with that thought. If you're in a quiet place and you think, maybe I should go to a noisy place and help people who are in a troubled situation, use that thought. And then maybe you find yourself in a very turbulent situation. Okay, so I want to practice, I wish to practice samadhi in the so-called turbulent situation. Is it harder to practice samadhi in turbulent situation?

[54:32]

for most people. You get into samadhi by practicing compassion. And some situations are more difficult to practice compassion, and if so, if we're unable to practice compassion, then we're unable to enter samadhi. But if we're in a difficult situation and we do practice some compassion, we can enter samadhi. And then in samadhi, we can do the same practice that we do in a peaceful situation. Are you next, maybe? Anybody ahead of? Maybe Catherine, since she has to leave in a minute. Catherine, Claudia, Tracy, who else had their hand raised? Stephen. The first thing was just a little to the discussion about experience.

[55:38]

I remember, I think, that once upon a time, you talked about experience and perception with a greater distinction between the two. So experience was, or what I remember was, that experience applied only to the perceptible. We didn't use experience about what we couldn't perceive. So there was a little less, either less confusion or a lot less understanding. You may be right that I have evolved to, and now I use experience for something which we cannot perceive. Well, I try not to. Because then people think that perception is experience. Yeah, I would say now enlightenment is, I would not even say and, I would say enlightenment is experience itself, now.

[56:52]

turbulent ocean clearly observed. Thank you very much for that. Well, in that part of the discussion, in my mind, I think of the kitchen crew and myself. But I think many people in the kitchen crew are very diligently practicing this upright body, careful, mindful attention. And then myself and are managing like 20 balls in the air instead of one or two. So our activity may frequently appear quite turbulent. And what I heard in your lead up to that phrase, was the sense that even in the time and the situation of turbulent epitome, one can offer all of those gestures when one remembers and practices all of those actions of body, speech, and mood in that turbulence still to be pointed in the direction of realization.

[58:10]

Is that correct? Yeah. So if one person has one ball in their hand and they're not even moving it, they may look not too turbulent. If they throw the ball up in the air, it may look more turbulent. If they have two balls, again. But it's possible that somebody who's got three or four or five balls who is juggling them is actually quite serene. And the person who's got one ball and not even moving is feeling quite stressed. It's possible. Yeah. And sometimes when you're doing pretty well, juggling three or four balls, and you're calm and flexible doing that, somebody throws you another ball and you drop them all, but you might continue to be calm and flexible about dropping all the balls rather than punch yourself in the nose for dropping them.

[59:28]

Or you can punch yourself in the nose and continue to be serene. Claudia? Huh? Tracy? I'm coming to a little blind spot here. So you use X, Y, or Z to express the Buddha mind, you said today. use X, Y, and Z use your actions to express the not use actually I don't know I don't know if in the original there's a you I don't know if there's a you when you use when you I don't know if there's a you but there is a person Am I doing it, or is it it? It is. It does express the Buddha mind, or I am supposed to have it express the Buddha mind.

[60:31]

But what have I got to do with it? I think this is a problem set up by having I and it. If you think in terms of I and it, then you have this problem. If you let go of I and it, there's no problem. You're all thinking about that. Yeah, they're all thinking problems, that's true, but, you know, you have to use words in a way that they're helpful. Like, that's why, like, if you ask a question, another way to say it is, am I doing it, or is it doing it, is the wrong question.

[61:32]

It's not a meaningful question. That's another way to say it. It's not that it's the wrong question, but it's not really meaningful. Because it's like, it is a kind of, did you stop being their husband? Yeah. We're still on tracing. You couldn't hear what was going on? No, but I know we're on tracing. That's why I wonder, again, is it just about the realization of what's happening? I think she's, we're still, let's stay with Tracy a little longer. She's kind of a little concerned about, you got the actions of your body, speech, and mind, and you have a question about that. What's the question? Well, most of the time I'm in here I'm trying to get tips for how to more enlightened or move toward the Buddha mind.

[62:42]

So I'm kind of just taking little notes all along, things I can and valiantly remind myself of when I get stuck. So I thought, so I listened for that, I listened for that, and I really do. You know, just things I could just play in my mind when I don't kind of know where to go. Can I say something? So you're just talking now and telling us some stuff, right? So there's some mental karma going on here and some verbal karma going on and some physical gesture, that was going on there. So this instruction from the ancestors is, while you were talking, you could have been, in some sense, mindful that your talk was for the sake of expressing the Buddha mind. Not that you were doing it, but just that what you were doing, the stuff that you were doing, to use the stuff that you do as the Buddha way. pointing to the Buddha way.

[63:45]

That's the tip of the day that we're talking about, and it's kind of a strange tip. I completely appreciate that. You said use it a second way, but the first time you said it is. And then in the same sentence you said, so you can use it. And that's where you... Be mindful of the possibility that what you're doing, what you're about, your activity, be mindful that that activity can be expressing the Buddha mind seal. And going back to, sort of resonating back to Francis, I think I said earlier, and I'll say it again, that I'm bringing this up, I'm kind of asserting this instruction with some energy.

[64:47]

I am. But I also want to tell you that this is kind of like a way, it's a thought experiment. It's a way to think about your life. Not to say that this is really what's going on, like as an objective fact, that when you're like this, the whole world's like that. But this is a way to think that's being recommended. But at the same time, the way things are and your thought experiments are non-dual. Claudia? I see you. Most of my questions are just like terms. I would say that the way I'm using the word experience, it is shared. It is what we're sharing. And what we're sharing is imperceptible.

[66:00]

And I say perception is individual. That's the way I'm using the term. For me, that's the way I'm using it now. Yes. I want to read this part of the chant and connect it to this. By revealing and disclosing our by the power of our confession and repentance. This morning I was up and I was in so much pain and so tired. I'm just wanting to run out of here. And it was like, and then I was falling asleep having nightmares. And it kept going on all the way through the meal until I had a bite of the quetzal. And something completely shifted and transformed and it dropped away. But when you're in that hell realm, how do I,

[67:04]

The way you can practice when you have that kind of challenging situation, there's a way of practicing with that which will bring you to samadhi. And it is to be compassionate towards it. if you can be generous towards a very intense perception, and another very intense perception, and another very intense perception, if you can be generous and ethically careful and patient and diligent, then you can enter samadhi with those things. and even before you enter samadhi, you still might be able to remember this instruction. However, once you're in samadhi, it will be a little easier. The compassionate way you've dealt with very challenging and less challenging situations leading you to samadhi, now it will be easier to apply this teaching to those situations.

[68:33]

But we are talking about and once you once you've had experience and confidence in this practice then that will help you the next time the next time the big challenge comes to come back more quickly with compassion. And then in that compassion you might be able to right away start doing this wisdom practice. But maybe not. You might feel like, I'm actually not going to try to use this opportunity to express the Buddha mind seal. I think I have not yet fully accepted what's happening. So I can't use what's happening yet because I haven't really accepted it. But once I accept it, now I can use it. to realize this thing, which isn't just about me having a good time with my difficulty.

[69:41]

It's about everybody having a good time with our difficulty. Thank you. Okay. This is a sort of meta question, but it's quite important to me. Could you say it louder? A meta question. It seems like when we talk about all these things, we're used to... two fundamental assumptions for two different stories. One story is, if we sit, we can become a farmer. The other fundamental story is that we are already there. We're already still. We're already sitting. We can realize it. And it seems like there is the preference for the second story. I mean, do you recommend the second story?

[70:45]

Can I go over these two stories again? The first one is that we can, you know, I'm in turmoil. I'm in pain. We can understand. But I can become calm by practicing. The second story is I'm calm already, and I can realize. And there's a third story, which is a combination. I'm already calm, but I don't realize it. That's the second, what I think of as the second. Yeah. If I practice, I will realize calm, which is already surrounding me. Yeah. So my question to you is, because I... I tend to think that the second story is better. It's more advantageous. What's the second story? That was already there. Yeah. Can you say something about why is it better and how does it pay?

[71:49]

Because it seems like some faith requires... I think faith, and faith is sort of... The second story. Well, another version of the second story, which I mentioned earlier, is all living beings are bodhisattvas. That's the second story. But if you don't practice, you don't realize it. And if you do practice and you do realize it, then you realize that the people who are not practicing it are realizing it by not practicing it. So what's your question? My question is about the West. I think, you know, I have a thought study that makes the Jews practical people. What's the word for the middle? What's the word for the West? I think you... Good points. Did you hear what he said? If you practice from the point of view of you're already there, your practice is more expressive.

[73:19]

Your practice is more expressive or symbolic? Yeah. So if you practice from the point of view of you're already there, your practice might be more like this one, because this character means a symbol. Make your actions a symbol. of what's already the case. Or a ceremony. Make your actions, whatever they are, a ceremony of reality. If you have the other story that you're not practicing, you haven't realized what's good, but if you practice you will be able to, then he's suggesting that then your practice seems to be more instrumental. And I agree, instrumental. Or you could even say, you know, manipulative. Huh? Yeah. And

[74:23]

This particular way, I think, completely includes the instrumental approach because the instrumental approach is more karmic. So you can try to do things to get into samadhi, but you don't have to wait to get into samadhi before you dedicate your samadhi-generating work to what's already the case. Even before you're in samadhi, you can Here it is, okay? Even before you're in samadhi, you can dedicate all your activities, including samadhi-generating activities, you can dedicate them to what is already the case, which is the Buddha Mind Seal. So why enter samadhi? Because in samadhi, then, you embrace the way you're doing this which is inconceivable. which is not a perception.

[75:50]

It rounds out the dedication and makes it more complete. But even before you enter samadhi, you're doing, not only are you getting into samadhi, but you're doing the same work. And in samadhi you realize that you always were. But part of the deal is to enter samadhi. Steven. Oh, yes. I'm just wondering if I'm understanding right, if I was to say that in samadhi, I can go beyond samadhi by offering. You know, we're expressing and offering, it's kind of the same thing. Offering the samadhi? Offering your actions. You're in samadhi and you're offering your actions in samadhi to the Buddha way.

[76:54]

Is that the same thing as what we're saying about expressing the Buddha seal? It's kind of the same. Instead of saying, express the Buddha mind seal in all your actions, you could say, offer all your actions to the Buddha mind seal. And also, samadhi itself... is deepened by giving away the samadhi, offer the samadhi. So you got samadhi? Anybody got some samadhi? Give it away, give it away, and give it away, and give it away. Every time you give samadhi away, it gets deeper. So when you have samadhi, there's an ongoing — you get into samadhi by generosity, and when you're in it, you deepen it by continuing generosity. So all this is going on, the samadhi Things going on. It's like the pedal point in the organ music. Boom, boom, boom. You know, just the basic thing. Generosity, generosity, generosity, generosity into samadhi.

[77:55]

Then continue generosity with the samadhi. Now you've got the samadhi. Add that to the list of gifts. And then now make everything else that's going on All the other activities which aren't specifically giving, like ethics, patience, and any kind of thought you have, have those be also gifts for the same purpose. So again, the text says, when in samadhi you do this practice, then the whole phenomenal world joins it. And you realize that. But the same practice you can do before you're in samadhi. It's the same practice. It's just that in samadhi the understanding is more profound, more thorough. And I asked, who did I ask? Oh, I asked Devin to remind me. Was it Devin?

[78:55]

Who was it? Yeah, three kinds of insight. Yeah, so there's three kinds of insight. One kind of insight is called insight by hearing. or learning. Another kind of insight is from thinking. And the third kind of insight is the kind of insight from meditation or the kind of insight that occurs in samadhi. So you can have insight just from hearing teachings and, you know, you hear the teachings, you hear the teachings, you hear the teachings and suddenly, boom, oh, I understand it. And you change. Insight comes and you're a different person. Then based on that insight which has arisen in you from hearing something, then you can think about it. And then you're thinking about it and thinking about it and boom, a new understanding comes, which doesn't destroy the earlier one.

[79:58]

It just deepens it, gives another perspective. Then you take these two insights in a way into samadhi. And there another insight comes, another one which is deeper and includes the previous ones. So the first one is said to be, the first insight is literal, the second insight is non-literal, and the third insight is literal and non-literal. The second one gives you a non-literal understanding of the teaching which you literally heard. You literally heard and understood, then you contemplated it rationally, and you have a new understanding that you did not hear literally. But it's a deeper understanding and it's non-literal. And it doesn't destroy the literal. Now you have two. The third one's both.

[81:00]

And that occurs in samadhi. And so we can do these practices just by hearing them, hearing them. Like now in class, you're hearing them, you're hearing them, and at some point, oh, there it is, I understand. Then you can think about it, and then you can hear it, hear it, hear it, and think about it in samadhi, and then another level comes. And the samadhi includes the previous ones, so it is more inclusive. I mean, the third type of insight includes the previous ones. It is in samadhi. So that's part of the deal. But we can do a lot of work outside of samadhi and prior to samadhi and after samadhi. Once again? this insight when you sit down, when you get this insight, will lead you to the wisdom that is fundamental in the middle way?

[82:07]

Yeah. And you can have a literal, non-samadhi understanding of these fundamental teachings, and then you can have a non-literal, and then you can have the meditative understanding. Yes, Leon. I'm trying to, when you're saying there's three insights, it seems that if there was not the language or the thinking, what would it look like, the insight of just on its own? Or is there a sort of a necessity to have I mean, I'm saying, like, if evolutionaries, like, just having the body and just being in the body, you know, yeah, you know.

[83:27]

Yeah, well, before they even talk. There's that one question, and then the other question. Isn't the giving away in, the giving away of samadhi, seems like almost like a default, like a default, it's a kind of setting in samadhi. Give away the, you know, the things that arise. The second question is easier for me. It seems like samadhi has a range of depth.

[84:33]

At its depth, it includes naturally giving itself away. At the more superficial levels of samadhi, and samadhi is pretty deep anyway, but the superficial levels, there could be a little bit of holding on to it. like somebody's walking along and they walk into samadhi, and they say, whoa. And they say, and then somebody says, come over here, and they say, no way. You know, this is like initial level of entry. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's like, in a way, it's like, maybe the word samadhi should not be used. Maybe it's an early level of shamatha. As you get deeper, at the deeper level, it's like it naturally gives itself up and somehow keeps getting deeper.

[85:43]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. So I think it is the nature of samadhi not to hold on because the nature of samadhi definition is mental one-pointedness. And in one-pointedness, there's no way for anything to hold on to something else because the holder-honor and the held-on-to are one point at the deep samadhi. So in a way, it is the nature of samadhi not to be able to hold on to itself. For the first question, though, I was thinking, could you look at samadhi as I think that the methods of entering samadhi are sometimes called technologies. But samadhi itself isn't a technology. It's just an awareness.

[86:50]

And any technologies that appear in samadhi will be optimally exercised. I was going to say, if you add in to using samadhi and sort of Would there not be sort of a usage of that state to have insight? It is kind of used, yeah. Samadhi is kind of used to turn these discursive presentations into insight. And that relates to your earlier question, is that these vipassana topics, these insight topics, it seems like they have to come in through the literal door at the beginning. No, I'm just saying that the topics of wisdom are not generated by the unenlightened sentient being.

[88:13]

The topics come from the fully realized Buddhas. The Buddhas are telling us that we're already bodhisattvas. The Buddhas are telling us about what's already the case. And when they tell us, when it comes into our minds initially, even if we're bodhisattvas, when it appears in our consciousnesses, I should say, not in our minds, when it touches our minds, and it touches our bodies, and then it gets worked up into our consciousness, when it appears in consciousness, it appears as word images. It starts in that gross way. So it's not bodhisattvas are not going to They're not adverse to messy situations, to vomit and words. So here we got words now, Now these are not the Dharma. These are the way the message is coming to us in this gross, literal way. And now we have to work with this stuff, these words, according to the rules of words.

[89:15]

And then we have insight, and then we go on from there. And in samadhi, we can work with these words in a non-literal way and a literal way simultaneously. Yes? This word is coming to mind, outflows, which shows up in the book that you mentioned a couple of days ago. And one of the ways that you define that is concerned with gain and loss. And I'm wondering if you can elaborate on this attention to concerning gain and loss that comes with this practice. You're wondering how, did you say attention? Attention to this, noticing this, the arising of this concern, gain and loss, how this can help. How does noticing the concern for gain and loss, how does the noticing, how is it helpful to enter samadhi?

[90:27]

Yes, and or can you elaborate on outflows? I think maybe it's probably good to talk about the outflows more in another class and just address how might it be helpful to notice them. how might it be helpful to notice a concern for gain and loss? How might that be helpful? In general or specifically to enter samadhi? If I notice gain and loss, I may notice that there's some stress around that concern. And I might think, hmm, maybe there's a way of dealing with this concern that maybe there's a different way of relating to it rather than the way I'm relating to it.

[91:34]

Maybe I can be generous towards the situation where I am all stressed out about gain and loss. Maybe I can be generous with that. Maybe I could let, and being generous means maybe I could let myself be this person who's concerned about such things. Maybe I could let myself be a fool and an idiot who is like gouging his life with this concern for gain and loss. Maybe I could just let myself be that way. So being aware of this pattern of concern for gain and loss has the opportunity of being kind to it. And by being kind to it, we can, like, start to relax with it. Well, you just said, but you just said, how can noticing it be helpful? how to recognize that for what it is at this sort of abstraction.

[92:45]

Okay, well, I would like to say, first of all, let's have two different areas. One is, you said, how does noticing it, and I was relating to that. Now you're saying, how do you get to notice it? How do you see it for what it is? So that's down the road. Seeing it for what it is is down the road. I don't mean for what it is, essentially. I mean, how do you recognize coming up against concerning for gain and loss as, oh, what I come up against, what seems to be an obstruction to entering the supply isn't concerned with gain and loss. I want to get something from this. Yeah. And I think I'm not getting it. Do I recognize that as an obstruction? The nature of that concern. as an obstruction? Are you asking me if you recognize it as an obstruction? How about me asking you, do you recognize it as an obstruction?

[93:49]

I'm not asking you if you recognize it. I assume you recognize it as an obstruction. So what's the question? I'm asking this question based on a question that I'm hearing, and I'm wondering how can we recognize some of the frustration that we come up against in thinking, I don't perceive myself entering samadhi. Generally, I'm assuming I'm going to gain a particular perception of something I want to get from entering samadhi. I'm wondering if that can be understood as a kind of outflow that actually is an obstruction to entering samadhi. You're wondering if it can be understood as an obstruction? Do you understand it as an obstruction? So you do understand it as obstruction, and I agree it is an obstruction. So you already understand it is, right? Yeah.

[94:54]

So if you say that it is, I agree. And if you understand that it is, I agree with your understanding. More about that. about how some of the concerns with perceiving that I have, have not, or am or have not entering somebody are related to this concern with genitals. Can I just reiterate what seems to be clear to you? I hear that you feel that concern for gain and loss seems to be an obstruction to entering Samadhi. You seem to understand that. Yeah, and I agree. Now, if you want me to say more about how it is that concern for gain and loss is a source of addiction and suffering, I said I think that's a bigger topic for me to get into a discourse about outflows.

[96:01]

In the meantime, before any further discourses occur, if you see something that's an obstruction, then you have an opportunity to practice with something with an obstruction. if you want to, before you hear any more about the nature of obstructions. Did you understand what I just said? Yeah, it was really great. When you see an obstruction to something, like for example, if you see an obstruction to samadhi, once you see, oh, this seems to be an obstruction, now you have an opportunity to work on the obstruction to the samadhi which you're trying to develop. Okay? To ask me more questions about the nature of the obstruction, is one kind of question.

[97:05]

The other kind of question is, before I understand any more about the nature of the obstruction, could you tell me how to deal with the obstruction to samadhi so that I can enter samadhi? Yeah, but I'm just saying, just plenty of different questions. You see the obstruction to samadhi. One question is, what is the nature of it? The other question is, how can I relate to that so it's not in the way anymore? And so I would say, the first step is how to relate to this so it's not an obstruction and you can enter in. Once you enter in, then we can ask questions about. Then you can start meditating on what's the nature of the obstruction. With regard to many of these perceptions that I am or am not entering Samadhi, the entire world is or is not turning into the Buddhist seal, is it helpful to ask oneself the question, to notice, am I concerned with gain and loss?

[98:19]

Is there some obstruction here that has to do with the concern with gain and loss? Yes, that was my question. Seems like a good question to me. Yes. So that's a good question. All day long, am I concerned for gain and loss? It's a good question. All day long. In samadhi, out of samadhi, it's a good question. Yes? On the other hand, with no concern for entering samadhi, it's unlikely that one's going to even engage in any practice around it at all, right? I think it is a good question, but there's also this side. There can be a wish to enter samadhi. Yeah, it's not a concern. So people who do wish to enter samadhi, they might get concerned with whether they have or not.

[99:24]

But even if they're not concerned, it's still good to ask that question. Even if they don't, it's still a nice question. Am I concerned with gain and loss in this life? Good question. that we are experiencing now with these questions and answers. The individual expresses Buddha. Is he become, like, he's expressing Buddha by speech, by his originality of questions, and he is the express and the expressed according to the stages to get the samadhi? Thank you.

[100:27]

One question. The Buddha mind theory you're talking about is the same as the way things are? It's the realization of the way things are, yes. Which is the suchness, realization of suchness, and which is non-thinking. I won't say it's non-thinking. I would say the way you realize it is non-thinking. Maybe you just take the non-thinking and set it aside for now and stop, because that's going to get into a whole other thing, which I'll be happy to talk to you about. I said yes, yes, yes, and when you said non-thinking, I said no, and to explain that is too much. So, I'm sorry, so Buddha mind-seal is, you said, realizing? Buddha mind-seal is the realization of... The way things are, and of such realization.

[101:44]

Yeah, and it's the realization of the way karma is, for example. The Buddha realized the way karma works. That's the Buddha mind, the understanding of how this is all working. and being non-dually realizing that. And in the non-thinking thing, it's thinking, not thinking, and non-thinking. That combination is what Buddhas understand. Buddhas understand, think of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking, non-thinking? That's the way things are. The realization of that is the Buddha mind. Is Buddha mind different from Buddha mind's you? No. The Buddha mind seal is saying the Buddha mind as it's like appearing, you know, as a presentation.

[102:57]

So like there's the Buddha mind and then there's the transmission of the Buddha mind. And the seal has to do with the transmission. Like it's the Buddha mind, it's the Buddha mind being put up for notice. It's the Buddha mind And again, the Buddha mind, all these have to do with appearances and pointing and demonstrating. So there's a demonstration going on. The Buddha mind, to some extent, isn't demonstrating. It's just realization of the way things are. But in order to transmit this, there has to be some kind of demonstration. And the Buddha mind is willing to, like, appear as something, as a symbol for something. And then it allows itself to be translated into words and human consciousness.

[104:02]

Yes? It seems like some of the problems we have here is So theological in nature, people read old texts. And then we start to understand what these old texts say. So we get into all kinds of muddy waters because we don't understand those old texts. Are these texts important, do you think? Or could you simplify your teaching if you would start fresh? Could you synthesize the teaching and start afresh? Start? Oh, synthesize. Synthesize and start afresh. Oh, simplify? Oh. Yeah. Isn't that what you're trying to do?

[105:29]

Before I simplify, how about start afresh? How about start afresh and simple? in a simple way. I will take that to heart. What was the question? Oh, I think the question is, the answer to the question is, yes, I can. And is it a question or is it an assertion that, yes, I am? He said, could I start afresh? The question was really... I think you understood the question.

[106:34]

Sometimes I think that these old texts that we're recycling are sort of baggage that, you know, we get into semantics of this and that. Yeah. And that he could be done in a simpler way. And that's my perception. And then I ask you, what do you think about that? Yeah. Well, I'm all for starting afresh. At the same time, there's another dimension, which, again, I'm just going to say it and not get into it, if possible. And that is the issue of precepts. And precepts are, the word means to take beforehand. Preceptus. You take it beforehand.

[107:37]

So there's some ironic situation here of starting afresh, and having a tradition. And some Buddhas, when they met, when they realized the way and met people, they started afresh and started afresh and started afresh and started afresh. And that worked quite well for everybody they met. Shakyamuni Buddha noticed that there were some Buddhas like that. But there were other Buddhas who started afresh but also gave something to people to take care of and transmit. And the Buddha mentioned this because some of the Buddhas which preceded him, their dharma lasted not very long.

[108:40]

and others it lasted quite a bit longer. The ones for whom it didn't last very long were the ones who just started afresh with each person and had no precepts. The ones where it lasted longer, they started afresh and had precepts. And Shakyamuni Buddha, when he was first teaching, had no precepts. He just met each person afresh And he said this stuff like Four Noble Truths and stuff, but that was not from, that came up fresh. But even still, he didn't really have, he didn't tell people that they should use that too. And then one of his students who he told this to said, well, you should give precepts. And the Buddha said, well, I will decide when to give the precepts. And he said, well, when? Will you give them? He said, basically when the group gets so big that I can't be close to everybody. And then the group did get big, and then he started to make precepts, because just starting afresh wasn't good when people were too far away from the freshness.

[109:54]

So there's some dynamic there between the past that we're kind of in a long-standing tradition here. But we could have a fresh one, and there are some people who I think around on the planet who have fresh ones, but they're in a different, they're not in a lineage. People with lineages, I think they have this stuff to take care of, they have baggage. So part of my job is to take care of baggage. But still I want to start fresh. And it may be nice to find somebody who's starting fresh who doesn't have baggage responsibilities. But I think I do. So that's part of the problem with this person and this person's baggage tender. But I don't want the baggage to get in the way of being fresh. Kyunghee? I was wondering. Would I say it's the same?

[111:09]

No. I wouldn't. That kind of realization is a liberation from the kinds of experiences that we call Kensho. But not that Kensho is bad, it's just they're beyond that. at the beginning of the Fukunzazengi, it describes the situation which you've heard about now quite a few times. I'll just read it to you, okay? Suppose you are confident in your understanding and rich in enlightenment, gaining the wisdom that knows at a glance. That's like Kensho. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?

[112:12]

Suppose you are confident in your understanding and rich in enlightenment. Doesn't that sound good? That's Kensho. Gaining the wisdom that knows at a glance. That sounds good, doesn't it? Yeah. Attaining the way and clarifying the mind. Isn't that great? Arousing the aspiration to reach for the heavens. Now it's starting to look suspicious. You are playing at the entryway. you're loitering around the door to the Buddha mind, but are still somewhat deficient in the vital way of total emancipation. So there are some wonderful people outside the gate of this Buddha realization, and we are those people. Some of us are farther away than Kensho.

[113:19]

But we're all out there, you know. at the gate. However, if we practice in certain ways, we realize the Buddha mind. But this story here that this person has come through, this is like, you know, his own understanding or her own understanding, which is great. This is something to be transcended. The Buddha has transcended personal realization. But there are personal realizations which are wonderful. Don't they sound great? They are. They are great. And as somebody said, those approaches are more accessible to Westerners. Those approaches around the gate, which are so wonderful.

[114:22]

And so Soto Zen is more talking about a practice which realizes something which is imperceptible or inconceivable and immeasurable even by Buddhas. And that's not very accessible. But it's a kind of complement to another type of realization which is more personal and psychological. So there's liberation from psychological delusion and then there's liberation from liberation. Buddha is free of freedom. Buddha is not stuck in being Buddha. I imagine that you're tired out. One person's not.

[115:26]

Two people are not. But anyway, this has gone on a long time. Yes? I'd like to ask another question. How do you feel about one more question? Sure, sure. OK. Well, it may relate to what you were exploring just now, but I have a question about what you might experience. I understand the distinction between experience and perception, but it seems like when a realization comes, There's a registry. Registry. I wonder if the word registry, if the re at the front of registry means, at the re means again.

[116:34]

Probably. Yeah. So again, a teaching which we're reciting is that which can be met with recognition but you could change it to, that which can be met with registration is not realization itself. So kensho is like a registration. It's like a recognition. A wonderful recognition. But that which can be met with the recognition is not the realization itself. So the experience, hmm? It's not just a glimpse, it's a glimpse again. It's a re-glimpsing. It's a re-cognition. It's a re-sturgation. It's a re-register. What is the stir, I wonder? Yeah, to again the king.

[117:42]

To again the king is not the king. But the registering and the recognitions occur in consciousness. And our problem is we live in consciousness and we're slightly addicted to it. And there we have recognitions of enlightenment, we have recognitions of good and bad. But realization of these things is not one of those things you can recognize. But although it can't be recognized, it can be realized, and the way you realize it is with practice. So we're trying to find the practice to realize this imperceptible, wonderful harmony that the Buddhists have discovered and are transmitting, which is coming to us in consciousness, in a rendered form, rendered into words, which makes it very difficult to work with. Realization doesn't register.

[118:51]

I don't know if I said it, but I can say it now, that it may be that glimpses of realization will appear in consciousness. You could say that there was a trace. You could see a trace. But the problem is that everything we see is basically a trace of reality. We see traces all the time, and then sometimes a real special trace shows up, and we think, oh, that's it. Yeah, so all the traces and recognitions, there can be a recognition of perfect enlightenment sometimes. But that thing that's being recognized is not it. But we have to deal with that. Some of you are very unfortunate because you have recognized enlightenment. So you have to get over that. A lot of us don't have that problem. But if you see enlightenment, it's kind of very tempting to say, well, that is enlightenment.

[120:09]

But the enlightenment that you recognize is not it. So this is like a warning. If anything good shows up, just realize, okay, fine. I wonder what that is. We can never find out, but we can realize. We can never find out what the Buddha way is, but we can realize it. Finding it cannot be done. Maybe finding it would be good, I don't know. It's impossible. Finding it is impossible. The way things are is that it's impossible to find anything, including enlightenment. Enlightenment is understanding that you can't find anything and understanding how wonderful that is for people who are trying to find something. Well, again, there's different ways of knowing. One way of knowing is a way which is not a recognition. Wisdom is not a recognition. It's a starting fresh.

[121:10]

It's not again. Suffering is about again You know, a pleasant thing comes again. A pleasant thing comes. That's not a problem in Zen. Or in anything. It's when you say again. And we do. In consciousness we say again. So recognition is a koan that we have to be careful of. And recognitions do occur. People recognize Buddhas, recognize enlightenment, recognize freedom. That happens. So you have to be careful. Recognize samadhi. The recognition of samadhi is not samadhi itself. To recognize a friend, what you're recognizing is not the friend itself.

[122:15]

Is it more than helpful to actualize that you don't deal with this recognition because it's something that's so deep in feeling that you can't express it by using words? But you can deal with the recognition. You can deal with the recognition by being compassionate to it. If somebody comes with the recognition, Like everybody that comes to see you might potentially be recognizing you. Poor people. Poor people are recognizing me. I want to accept that they think they know who I am. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's Rev. They do that to me. They recognize me. And I recognize them. So I'm compassionate to myself when I recognize you. And I remind myself, that which I'm recognizing is not you yourself. I don't know who you are with my conscious mind.

[123:21]

I don't know how you're my excellent friend. And if I have a recognition of how you're a friend, I have to be very careful and kind to that recognition. This is kind of a disease I have, the disease of recognizing people. And then believing the recognition is who they are? Oh, okay, try to relax with that. Yes? It goes without saying, but I think we all feel Yes. And that's a very polite way to...

[124:22]

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