Many causes and conditions come together to lead me to this moment of asking you if I can offer some words. So with your support, I will offer some words. I really don't know where they're coming from. I really don't know all the reasons for these words. But here they come. One of the words which I wasn't planning on bringing up today is the word pontificate. what I was kind of planning on offering to you was the next book of the great flower adornment scripture.

[01:12]

So now for more than a year, we have been contemplating this great teaching of the Buddha. Kind of, you might say, heroically or foolishly, marching forward into this great scripture. And so I've been offering a few comments on this sutra. And some of you have been studying it. I've been studying it and talking with you, offering words about it and gestures about it. So I am intending, actually still, to bring up the book number 12 of the Great Sutra today. I may not do anything more than that. Actually, I have it here.

[02:17]

I brought it in. Oscar brought it in. Here's the Great Sutra. Here it is. But today I also brought the Lotus Sutra. So I have two Great Sutras here. And I might bring them up more than that. I might say something about chapter 12. And you might get to see and hear it. And that might be just great. That might be a wonderful offering to make in this world where there's so much harm and so much suffering. And what just popped in my mind unexpectedly is that Suzuki Rishi came from Japan not so long after the Second World War where so much harm was done. And he came from Japan to offer something good to this country.

[03:18]

Something really, really wonderful. The teaching and the practice of the Buddhas. And so now I also want to offer the teaching and the practice of the Buddhas and in particular related to this great scripture to look at how our practice is intimate with the teachings of these great scriptures. And I imagine From what I've seen of this person named Suzuki Roshi, I just didn't feel very often that he was pontificating. Even when he said stuff like, this is the most important thing.

[04:25]

Somehow I didn't feel like he was pontificating. I thought he was just offering us something to contemplate. So let me say to you, I don't want to pontificate. I don't want to say, this is true. This is the truth. And I know what it is, and I'm telling you, I don't want to do that. But When I offer you something that I'm really, really joyful about offering you, you might think that I'm saying this is like the truth and I know what it is. But I don't mean to say I know what it is. I'm just saying I really feel good about offering you these teachings which have been given to me.

[05:27]

So I wish to set the example of saying, going on record, that I don't want to pontificate, and also that I'm not a pope. I'm not a pope or the pope. I'm not the pope of the universe. I'm not the pope of this temple. But again, you might think that I'm implying that I am the pope. I don't mean to. And if I look like I'm acting in that way, if I look like I'm pontificating, please help me. Please help me by calling me into question. Not accusing me, but in a kind way, Are you the Pope? Are you pontificating? Are you telling us what the truth is?

[06:38]

Do you think you know what it is? If I appear to be that way, please help me. So then I can clarify, no, I don't know anything, but I offer you these amazing things. I don't even know if they're amazing, but I think they are, and I'm offering you my thoughts. So I'm doing this and asking for your help. And as I've said before in this hall, everything I do is questionable. It doesn't mean everything I do is bad, and it doesn't mean everything I do is good. I'm just saying, what I'm saying is I think everything I do is questionable. which kind of could also be said, everything I do, you can question. You can inquire about. And if you think I'm acting like a pope, that thought that you have, I would also say, is questionable.

[07:46]

You don't know the truth. I don't know the truth. However, now this is going to sound like pontificating. Ready? Ready? You don't know the truth. Nobody knows what the truth is. I don't know the truth. And I'm saying that. But I don't know if that's true, what I just said. I don't know. But causes and conditions have led me to say no person knows the truth. No sentient being, no bodhisattva knows the truth. But I say that to you as an offering, not to say, I know what the truth is, because I just said I didn't. The person doesn't know it. So now this person makes another suggestion of what does know the truth. What knows the truth is Buddha.

[09:00]

Awakening knows the truth, but awakening is not a person. And not only does only a Buddha know the truth, but actually only a Buddha together with a Buddha, that knows the truth exhaustively and completely. And now this person says that only a Buddha together with a Buddha is present here. And that only a Buddha together with a Buddha understands the teaching, understands the true nature of all phenomena. So I'm setting an example by bringing this up and hopefully, not to say that I'm perfectly not pontificating, but anyway, I'm just saying, if I am, call me into question so we can be free of any pontificating.

[10:14]

And now I have another thought, which is it seems like in this world some people want somebody to pontificate. They kind of like it that some people go up there and say, I know the truth, by the way, and this is it. There are people like that, it seems like. Maybe they're just kidding. Maybe it's just a joke. But people seem to like not that it's a joke. They like it that there really are the authority and they really do know the truth and they really are great. And I live in a world like that and I want to practice together with all the popes. I aspire to realize authentic awakening together with all beings. I don't aspire to attain, to realize, unsurpassed, complete, perfect awakening by myself.

[11:27]

I do not aspire to that. What I do aspire to is to realize that together with everyone, for the benefit of everyone. And that's what I think these great sutras are about. And I can point to that. But again, when I say I think that's what they're about, that's just my thoughts which I offer to you. I'm not saying it is true that they are talking about this. And I can tell you some reasons why I think they are. But my thoughts are not the truth. They're just my gifts to you. There's my gifts to you and my gifts to the Buddha and my gifts to practicing together with all beings and realizing the truth. So I'll just stop there just for a moment and see if anybody wants to see if I think I'm a pope.

[12:37]

Yes? How are you using the word truth? Pardon? Pardon? Truth. I can't hear your whole question. I heard truth. I heard truth. What's the beginning of the question? How are you using truth? What does that mean? Oh, truth. Yeah, what does it mean? Well, now we can, that's part of what I would talk about if I keep living, is what the truth is. So, the truth, and I've said it here before, and it says it in this sutra, this one, it says that the truth, another word for truth is dharma, So it says in the sutra, this translation says, clearly observe the truth of the teacher of truth. The truth of the teacher of truth is thus. But that word truth is also dharma. So this sutra says on page 129 and other pages too, and the first case of the Book of Serenity says, clearly observe the dharma of the king of dharma.

[13:52]

The dharma of the king of dharma is thus. So the truth is thus. There it is. Then who gets to realize this thus? Not a person. But only a Buddha together with Buddha. And we are included completely in this practicing together as one. And realizing this truth is what Buddhas realize. Buddhas realize this Dharma together with all sentient beings. And this brings peace and harmony in the world. I just want to tell you that I'm ready and willing to bring up book 12. But if you want to talk about something else before I do that, I'm accepting it.

[14:58]

But otherwise, I'm ready, when you are, to open up book number 12. So do I want questions now, or do you want to open book number 12? So how many people want me to open up book 12 and have questions later? May I just go with the majority? So book number 12. I think the last time we met here, we did book number 11. So book number 12, the name of it is Foremost or Chief in Goodness. That's the name. Because that bodhisattva is the speaker for most of the chapter, most of the book. What's the name of the bodhisattva who is the main speaker for Book 12?

[16:06]

Do you know what the name of the bodhisattva is, Mary? Foremost in goodness. So who's the main teacher in that chapter? What's the name of that person? No, chief in goodness. Samantabhadra's there in the neighborhood. But Samantabhadra's not speaking the teaching here. Who's speaking the teaching? Mary? Chief in goodness. Now, chief in goodness isn't just coming all of a sudden and pontificating. Although, once chief in goodness starts talking, you might think, this person's talking like a pope. But anyway, he was invited. He was beseeched. And who beseeched him? Well, I haven't told you that yet, so you might not know it. You could guess. Anybody want to guess who beseeched him?

[17:12]

Manjushri beseeched him. So the previous chapter, Manjushri was the speaker who talked about the purifying practice of vowing together with all beings so that all beings will be free of suffering. That's the previous chapter. Now Manjushri, having finished that chapter, That's what it says at the beginning of chapter, book two. Having taught all these purifying practices, actually having taught the basic purifying practice, Manjushri then asked, foremost in goodness, to tell people about the mind of the bodhisattva that aspires to awakening for the welfare of the world. Manjushri wants that to be brought out, and he asks this other bodhisattva to bring it out.

[18:19]

And after he asks this bodhisattva to bring it out, this bodhisattva says, okay, I will give this teaching. And so what's the teaching about? It's about the virtues and merits of the mind of the bodhisattva that aspires to Buddhahood. That's the request. Tell us foremost in goodness about the virtues and merits of the mind of bodhi, the mind of awakening, of the bodhisattva that aspires to realize unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment for the welfare of all suffering beings. But when Manjushri asked the Bodhisattva to expound, he doesn't mention the word aspiration to attain Buddhahood for the welfare of all beings.

[19:39]

He asked the Bodhisattva to talk about practical application. But what he means is practical application of the Bodhisattva's aspiration. So at the beginning of our session here today we recited a vow, a bodhisattva vow written by a Japanese Zen master. That was a vow, an aspiration for Buddhahood. And then at the end of our session we will also do bodhisattva vows. But this particular vow that I'm talking about now is Kind of like the fourth of the four vows. The Buddha way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. That's our fourth vow that we usually do. That's the Bodhi mind. Vowing to realize the unsurpassable Buddha way.

[20:45]

And so Chief in Goodness understands that that's what Manjushri wants him to do, so then he sets off to do it. And Manjushri addresses him as benevolent one, brackets, wise one. And Manjushri, after asking this question, the benevolent Chief in Goodness addresses Manjushri, benevolent one. I'll do what you say, so please listen closely. I just want to get into the social aspect there. This bodhisattva asks this other bodhisattva, it's kind of like, I just made a big effort. I want to take a break. Why don't you take over now? I'm passing the baton to you. So you can lead this next section of the sutra. And when foremost in goodness receives, when first in goodness receives this request, he then asks the person who invited him to please listen carefully to what he's offering.

[22:07]

And he starts off by basically saying, the merit and virtues of this mind which aspires to unsurpassed awakening, it is basically immeasurable, inconceivable. And since I've been invited, I'll say a little bit about this mind. But what I say is just a drop. So this big chapter, this big book with so much teachings in it, he says, the person who's giving these teachings says, this is a drop of what I can say about the merit of this mind. This mind is really highly, highly praised and appreciated. And then he goes on to say how wonderful it is for a little while.

[23:18]

And then he says, he's saying all these, he's presenting his teaching in four-line verses called in Sanskrit, gathas. So it's a traditional verse form that's used in many scriptures of presenting the teaching in four lines and four lines and four lines and four lines. So quite soon into the sutra, he offers a gatha. And this gatha, this four-line verse, I bring up, I offer to this assembly to meditate on. I'm not saying this four lines is true. I'm just saying that I read it in the scriptures. It's written there. And I'm not saying that's true that it's written there. But it looks to me like it's written there. And if anybody wants to see it, I'll show you. Right now I don't feel like opening the book. But here's what First in Goodness says to Manjushri and to us.

[24:28]

Because he's not just addressing Manjushri. They're in a big assembly, an immeasurable assembly. And he's saying, When bodhisattvas arouse this bodhi mind, or you could change it, but I'll just say it that way for now. When bodhisattvas arouse this immeasurably virtuous and meritorious mind, They do not do so without causes and conditions. They don't do it by themselves. They cannot raise this mind by themselves.

[25:30]

And nobody else can either. It is aroused by causes and conditions. And now, what are the causes and conditions? I'm saying that. But then the next, those are the first two lines. When bodhisattvas first arouse it, first line, it's not without causes and conditions, second line. Third line is generating and developing faith of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha By this, the mind, this great, magnanimous, benevolent, wondrous, inconceivable mind is aroused. So I don't know if you can tell me back what I just said, but if anyone would like to say it back to me, I'd be happy to hear what you heard.

[26:44]

four lines anybody want to give it a try okay here we go that's one of the lines now nothing arises without causes and conditions and even this this magnificent arousal of the Bodhi mind, that also doesn't arise without causes and conditions. A headache doesn't arise without causes and conditions. But I don't see people pontificating about headaches so much. Like, I made a headache for myself. But some might think, I made this mind arise all by myself. I made the Bodhi mind arise. No. I'm not saying anybody would do that, but this is saying, just be clear, when bodhisattvas, when this does arise in bodhisattvas, they don't do it without causes and conditions.

[27:51]

It happens by faith in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. That's how it arises. A question She's calling something into question. Everything said here can be questioned. And now she's questioning. Thank you. What are you questioning? I question the happening of that mind. Can I just say, thank you for questioning the happening of that mind. That mind does not actually happen. That's another teaching which you will find later in the chapter. It says when a bodhisattva practices with faith, they realize that nothing happens. So if your question is happening, thank you. So let me correct my language.

[28:56]

No, no. So my question... Okay, your question. My question is... cannot say even in the rising, among rising, with rising, with no word before, so no words before, just rising, rising. My question is this rising, Your question is whether this arising needs faith? So that's your question.

[29:57]

We just read the sutra which says that this mind arises due to faith. And after hearing that, she's saying, I wonder if that's true. I wonder if it really does need faith. And I think a lot of people who practice, that I've met who practice Zen, are not sure they need any faith. So part of what's being brought up here in this verse, I'm bringing it up because a lot of people do not use the word faith very often about their Zen practice, about the Bodhi mind. I just thought I'd bring up this sutra, which happens to have this verse in it, which is bringing up the issue of faith. And then after it brings it up, it's going to spend a little while telling you how important, how essential, how necessary faith is for the arising of Buddhahood. But that doesn't mean you can still question whether what the sutra says is true. The sutra says that this mind, and that means all the Buddhists and bodhisattvas, come out of faith.

[31:05]

And then it tells you faith is the mother of all virtues. It's the source of all Buddhas. But you can still question. I question whether that's true. The sutras definitely seems to be saying all the great things about faith, but I wonder if that's true. That's good. Good to question it. That will facilitate understanding faith. The sutra doesn't say, but I'm going to say, the sutra doesn't say, how do you understand faith? And how do you understand it? Do you think faith is alive in you? Do you think you have a lot of confidence in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha? The bodhisattvas have pure faith in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. And due to that, this mind arises.

[32:07]

In other words, due to that, they become bodhisattvas again and again. But questioning it is totally welcome. I really question this. If this mind has anything in it. If this mind has Has any thingness? It doesn't? No, no, no. It doesn't. We already said that for many pages before. This mind doesn't have any thingness. It's ungraspable. It's inconceivable. It's immeasurable. So it's not stuck in thingness. So your question has been granted gratitude. point out that what we're talking about here is not something graspable, measurable. However, it is, although, it's not graspable, it's not measurable, but it's necessary. It is basically Buddhahood in the form of an aspiration.

[33:12]

So it is Buddhahood in the form of the wish to be Buddha. So one of the aspects of Buddha is the wish to be Buddha. And how does this wish to be Buddha for the welfare of the world appear to arise? It arises in the womb of faith. So today I want to talk about faith. Faith. Which again, as I say, like they often say in some books, this topic does not get as much attention as it deserves. This topic has been neglected. And I didn't hear Suzuki Rishi talk about faith much at all. And I think he might have talked about it before I met him. And he found out, oh, Americans don't like to say faith. So I won't bring it up, because they don't like it. Also, they don't want to hear about ethical precepts, so I'm not going to mention it.

[34:18]

So he tried a bunch of stuff out. And I think, oh, they don't want to hear about this. OK, fine. But after he was around 12 years, he started to bring up some of those things which Zen students didn't want to hear about. Okay, I'm leaving now, so I just want to mention a few things before I go that I didn't feel like I mentioned before, but I just want to go on record to say a few things. Like me, I want to go on record as saying, I brought up faith to you before I went away. And I'm telling you, not the truth, I'm just saying the sutra says, It's due to faith that this bodhi mind arises, which means it's due to faith that Buddha arises. So Buddha arises out of pure faith in Buddha. Buddha arises out of pure faith in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.

[35:23]

However, now we can talk about the faith. So one thing I can say about the faith is, the pure faith is to have confidence in Buddha, without making the slightest difference between yourself and Buddha. If there's a hair's breadth difference between you and Buddha, who you have lots of confidence in Buddha, but there's a hair's breadth difference. If there is, we have failed to accord with the proper attunement. And we need a faith where there's not a hair's breadth difference between the faithful and what the faithful is confident about. And again, this is, one could go on about faith, but I think for now, I did bring it up.

[36:32]

I did my job that I assigned myself. But it isn't just me that assigned me this job. The sutra says, you probably should mention to people this faith part, even though it's just a page and a half about faith before getting into other stuff. And at the end of the presentation about faith, it makes a final statement, which is basically, In any world, no matter where you are, no matter how bad it is or how good it is, in any world, it's like a wish-fulfilling gem. What's that? Faith. This faith is like it's what it will be with you in the terrible things that we're concerned about. It will be with you if these horrible things we're concerned about happen. I don't know if they will. I don't know if environmental collapse is going to happen.

[37:36]

I don't know if people are going to be starving and killing each other, destroying each other. I don't know if that's going to happen or not. But this faith is for the purpose of those times, of being able to continue to be confident in awakening in the worst situations and to keep working on realizing Buddhahood in the worst situations for the welfare of all the suffering beings. So that's just a little bit about faith and now I open for you to make offerings if you wish. Homa already did and I see Tracy and I see Deborah and Jim and Charlie and Sonia. So that's a lot. Let's do that again.

[38:38]

I see Tracy. I see Deborah. I see Jim. I see Charlie. I see Sonia. That's a lot. I saw a lot, didn't I? You might see. That's just the beginning. Yeah, so somebody may question that. No, you didn't see a lot. Anyway, I feel like let's try to hear what these people have to offer, shall we? Are you ready for these offerings? Okay, Tracy, what's your offering? What can you say about the source of faith? The source of faith. I think the source of faith is, in this particular case, getting a glimpse of Buddha, getting a glimpse of Dharma, getting a glimpse of Sangha. So it's a little bit hard for me to have confidence in Buddha in my ordinary human world before I see or hear. But I did see, I think I got some glimpses of Buddha.

[39:41]

And I also heard some sound of Buddha. I did. And I didn't think of it as Buddha at the time. I just thought of it as, that's where it's at. That's what I trust. So I told this story over so many times. I saw a story, I read a story, and I heard a story about a Zen monk And he was falsely accused of a crime. And when the people came and accused him and attacked him and insulted him, he said, okay. He said, okay, I hear you. He didn't say, that's not true. He didn't punch him. He didn't call him stupid. He said, okay. I'm here for these beings who are attacking me, not without causes and conditions, but they are attacking me.

[40:52]

They do hate me. They are insulting me, and I'm here, and I'll take care of them. And then later people found out that it was false, that he hadn't done the crime that they thought. And then they came and they praised him. And it doesn't say how much they praised him, but they probably said, first of all, they apologized. We're so sorry that we insulted you and defamed you. And now we see you're so great. And he said, okay. I thought that's a glimpse of Buddhahood. I don't think Buddhahood is just taking punishment and saying, okay. I don't think it's just taking punishment and not taking it personally. That's part of it. I heard that part before, the first part. I've seen, well, Jesus, turn your cheek, right? He's saying now, when you turn the cheek and then they praise the cheek and say it's the best cheek in town, that you do the same thing.

[41:55]

Okay. So I got that glimpse, that glimpse, the confidence in that, whatever that was, And there's other glimpses, too, that seem to have given birth to faith. I didn't make that faith come up in myself. I was stimulated, and somehow I felt like this is kind of what I'm here in this life for. Even before I heard that, I still wanted to do something good in the world. I didn't know what it would be. I was looking for what good can I do. I was experimenting, trying to find some good anyway. Now I think I found something that's really good. Let's try to find out how that could happen. And then I found out this person went through a training program.

[42:57]

He wasn't just born able to be like that. So I thought, maybe I'll try that training program. So then I had some faith in the teaching and the sangha. I wanted to practice. And when I tried to practice, I thought, oh, I need a group of people to help me. So that's my faith. So I came to Zen Center, and I had confidence in the group of people practicing together. So this is one story of how faith arose. And from that faith, maybe bodhichitta arose. Are you good? Very helpful. I do want to go on record saying I have a question from before. Okay. And also I want to tell you I'm not wearing my hearing aids because if I wear my hearing aids, I start whispering. I just can't yell at you as loud. Like I'm talking to you pretty loudly now, right? If I put my hearing aids on, I'll be very quiet like this, because I think this is . So I don't have them on. So that means you need to yell at me. Please yell at me. I was just going to say, I do have a question alive from before, but I have a feeling you feel overburdened by questions.

[44:05]

I'm not overburdened. I just, people may want to go on with their lives. But I'm here. I'm here for this. How do people feel about Tracy asking another question? Do you support it? I hear mostly support. OK. But support for her speaking it loudly, right? Can you help? Explain the dynamics of why it takes a Buddha and a Buddha. Every time you say that, I'm shocked, because I always thought a Buddha alone is everything, and then I forget. A Buddha alone is not everything. There's other Buddhas, which that Buddha completely includes. But it isn't that. You're everything, too. You're like the Buddha. No, I don't need another Buddha.

[45:06]

Pardon? so that you understand that another Buddha is not the least bit different from you. She's happy. But again, that's not the truth, that's just what I said. And we are here to help Tracy be happy so she can help everybody with her happiness in this world. And Deborah, same for you. What do you have to offer? So faith is based on, you kind of answered it, but faith is based on experience is what it sounds like to me. It arises from experience, yeah. Does it arise from anything else? From something besides experience? Well, if experience is the whole universe, that's where it arises from. It arises from the whole universe. But usually when you have faith in something, you're mentioning something, usually you see it or hear it or think it or smell it or touch it.

[46:11]

So at the beginning, it seems to be towards something other. But it's not. So we need to purify it. But some things we don't have faith in, like the Buddha does not have faith in sentient beings. The Buddha is devoted to sentient beings but doesn't have faith in them because they're unstable. If I have a faith in this Debra, this Debra is going to be gone later. I have faith in being devoted to this Debra and also the next one. this one I'm not really trusting this one's going to be here tomorrow like now she's smiling but tomorrow she may be frowning and I want to be devoted to the one who's frowning so Deborah's unstable I don't have confidence in Deborah but I do have confidence in loving Deborah you're welcome and Jim I was just thinking about how

[47:18]

I don't know, maybe there's somebody like this, but most people aren't like this. In other words, people start to practice Zazen, but they have no idea what voting mind is. Yeah. They haven't even heard of it. They haven't even heard of it, and even if they've heard of it, it's a concept. And so, anyway, when you were speaking, I thought they... I was thinking let's see if you would agree or not that faith is a catalyst a catalyst for the horizon you can say catalyst but it's also the source it's both the source and the mother and a catalyst faith can do all this wonderful stuff faith can bring us into awakening so it is a catalyst it's not anything in addition to the process but yeah And as you said, many or most Zen students have not heard of Bodhi Mind, especially when I first started practicing.

[48:28]

I did not hear anything of the mind of aspiring to Buddhahood for the welfare of beings. I didn't hear anything about that, but I saw it in the Zen stories. I saw it, but I didn't have that word for it. I didn't even like the word Buddha when I came to Zen Center. I didn't hate the word Buddha. I would say I was neutral about the word Buddha, but I was positive about Zen monk, like that. I was really positive. When I met Suzuki Roshi, I didn't think, oh, Buddha. I just thought, nice feet. I have confidence in those feet. And then when I saw his face, the first thing I saw in him was his feet, and I said, okay. Okay. It's not that I want those feet. I just think those feet can teach me about this thing I saw.

[49:31]

And then a few minutes later, I saw his face, and I looked at it, and I didn't think Buddha. I thought, what's going on? what's happening? Like, I looked at him, he looked at me, and then he turned away. I thought, was I not supposed to look at him? Is he scared of me? Did I offend him? Is he affirming my enlightening? I didn't know what was going on. I did not know what was going on. And in just a moment, because other people were waiting to say goodbye to him also, just a moment, and in that moment, Our human minds are able to do quite amazing things in a short period of time. In that one moment I went through all these possibilities and came to the conclusion, I do not know what's going on. And I'm a little uncomfortable because I didn't mean to scare him or offend him, but maybe I did.

[50:33]

And then I turned to the left and took a couple steps and I thought, Yeah, that seems appropriate, that you don't know what's happening with the teacher. You're kind of like, it's questionable what happened. And so the feet and this meeting, which I didn't understand. When I looked at the feet, I didn't think, I don't understand. Do those feet like me? I just said, those are good feet to teach. And with the face, I thought, what's happening? I thought, that's good, too. But no bodhicitta, but there was. I was open to not know what's going on. Yeah, thank you. And then it's Barbara, yes? I have two things to offer. Loudly. Jim, you did really well, nice loud voice. I'd like to offer two things. Okay. One is a comment on the way you presented your story today.

[51:37]

What came up to me was non-contention. And I remember reading the word non-contention in this chapter, I believe. And it seems like that's a virtue and a way to practice. It is. It's a virtue. Yeah. And that's a little bit of the virtue. It's a little drop. It's a very good drop, though. Good luck on that one. Me too. So I believe when you read that gatha, you expressed faith of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. I was wondering if you could talk about faith of rather than faith in. Yeah. I'm not arguing with the translator. These translators know a lot more about Chinese than I do, of course.

[52:40]

But I like faith of in the sense that it's not separate from you. Buddha's faith is not separate from you. You could think it is, but the of is saying it's not something out there. So in's okay though too. And then if there is an in, then you have to not think that the Buddha that you have faith in is separate from you. And as I often mention, we have a bowing verse. And the bowing verse is when you're paying your respects to Buddha, you can say to yourself, bowing and bowed to, their nature, no nature. Neither one of them have a nature. This body, other body, not two. We pay our respects to let go of any duality between venerator and venerated, this body and Buddha's body.

[53:48]

This is a verse when we're expressing our faith, our confidence in Buddha. So I'm confident in Buddha, and I'm watching out to not be separate from Buddha, or the same. Charlie, loudly. Could you describe the role of self and will in the arising of the mind, the state of mind that we have? Because you pointed out that there are always causes Okay, so there was different parts to what you brought up, but one of them which I'd like to start with is that we have that will in Buddhist psychology, will is the word we might use will or volition or intention.

[55:15]

We might use that word to describe the shape of the consciousness. So we have a moment of ordinary egoistic consciousness. It has five basic categories. One is the awareness itself. The other is any kind of physical data. The other is including the sense organs. And then another one is feelings, and another one is perceptions, and another one is a category for all the different emotions that could be there, and all the different delusions that could be there, all the different false impressions. Actually, going back to number three, there could be the perception or the idea that the self has the will. The way I'm suggesting to you to look at it now is you have this mind which has a shape, and the shape is the will of the moment.

[56:28]

It does have a will. It has a pattern. And one of the things in the pattern is the idea that the self owns the pattern. But that's not the self, that's an idea that the self owns the pattern. That's a delusion. Really it's like there's a sense of self, there's the idea of the self, there's actually four afflictive ideas about the self, and then there's all the stuff that's going on. So the mind does have the pattern, the mind has will, but the will is nothing but a pattern of the consciousness. And also, there's often a sense of self in that pattern, and there's often these delusions about the self's role in the pattern. Like, for example, the self owns the pattern, the self has control of the pattern, the self is the pattern. So usually in the human consciousness there is a sense of self, consciously or unconsciously.

[57:36]

But there's also, even if you're not thinking of yourself, there might be the idea that the self owns the will, or the will is the will of the self. But actually it's more like if you live in a family and you've got lots of brothers and sisters, you would say, that sister, I own that sister. So one of the things in your family is the will of your family. And you might think you own the family. But your sister might think she owns the family. Or your brother might think that none of you own the family. But those are just, nobody owns anything in this space. They're just all coming up together. The self comes up with the pattern. The pattern comes up with the self. The self comes up with the pattern and the idea that the self has a special relationship with the pattern that the other parts of the pattern don't have. Like, that's my dad, and it's not your dad. Like my granddaughter, as I told you, one time I said to her, I'm your mother's father.

[58:38]

And she says, no, you're not my mother's father. She's my mother. The only relationship here is I own her, and nobody else has anything to do with her. But actually, she arose with me and her mother and you. We all did this together, but there's the idea that one of us really owns it all, and nobody else has a say. This comes quite naturally to the consciousness, because these delusions come up with the sense of self. So there is a will, a momentary will is the momentary shape, there is a sense of self, and there is a sense that the self owns the will. It's my will, my intention. This is all All these things are not worthy of confidence. However, they are worthy of devotion and love. And if we love them enough, we'll understand that they're all empty. And then this consciousness will be free of suffering and distress. But it's a tricky situation.

[59:40]

How are you doing? Not exactly in tandem. They're rising together. Simultaneously. Yeah. They're simultaneous, yeah. They just happen to walk into the same room. Yeah. And they don't appear without causes and conditions. In many consciousnesses there is a sense of moral responsibility, yes. Like in wholesome states of consciousness there is a sense, kind of a moral sense of self-respect in the sense of, I would not do that, that's not worthy of me, that would be something that would really be bad.

[60:51]

It isn't my true self to do that. And also I do care about what other people think. And I'm kind of concerned that they might really hate me if I do certain things. I'm concerned about that. They might really feel like I'm harming them, and I'm concerned about that. Those are moral responsibility factors. But the self, you're missing that? Yeah, and they just happen to arise. However, when those arise, they tend to promote being careful and respectful. So that's why they contribute. They contribute to a wholesome state of consciousness. But the self doesn't own them, but the self is in relationship to them. They are the sense of responsibility, not the self. Those two, when they arise, there's many other, a great variety of other things can happen.

[62:01]

However, they are kind of like guiding principles of moral responsibility in the consciousness. And so it will be pretty good, it'll be fairly wholesome consciousness if it has those two. Now, if you take them away, that means you have this other idea, which they don't for sure guarantee that it's going to be unwholesome, but Actually, I think the first two I mentioned are conducive to a wholesome state, but they're not sufficient. But if you think that it doesn't matter what you do, that nothing's beneath you, if you don't think there's nothing I wouldn't do to get my way, and I don't care what other people think, then you do have a wholesome state. That's where you say, there's no moral responsibility here. So those two negative versions of that, of moral irresponsibility, I have no moral responsibility for myself or other people, that dharma, those mean that the will is a harmful one.

[63:07]

But the positive ones need those other two, but you need some other positive ones to make it positive, like you could have I am concerned about what people think. I don't want to do something beneath myself. However, I do hate this person so much I want to kill him. So those two positive ones are always there when it's positive, but they don't guarantee that it's positive karma, positive will. But the other two, no matter what else is going on, it's the worst. And in the early teachings, the Buddha said, right view, one of the key views of right view is actions have consequence. That's the Dharma. That's part of right view. And the Buddha says, the worst of all unwholesome states of consciousness is to think that actions don't have consequence. So when that Dharma is present, the will is unwholesome.

[64:15]

In other words, basically, I have no moral responsibility. That is definitely the worst. There is moral responsibility is present in wholesome states. But again, if there's other really bad intentions mixed in with it, or dharmas, they may not be sufficient to make the whole consciousness, to override, for example, greed, hate, and delusion. They may not be sufficient. But if the greed, hate, and delusion are overridden, they're there. More responsibility is inherent to wholesome action. Yeah, right. So that, and usually in both wholesome and unwholesome states, there's the idea that stuff belongs to self. That idea, if there's a self, it usually has that idea of this stuff belongs to the self.

[65:21]

That's a normal, so Vasubandhu says, the self, when the arising of the self, it's always accompanied by four afflictions, like The self is in control, the self owns what's going on, the self is really the best. These delusions come with the sense of self. I just think those are helpful conventional understandings. Most other people have them, so if you didn't have them, you wouldn't be able to understand other people very well. Because other people said, that was my action. That was my intention. If you don't have that, you might think they're correct. Where did they get that idea? Oh, I have that idea, too. I think it's a little harsh to call those afflictions. See it? I think it's a little harsh to call those afflictions. Well, OK. Sabatsu Band is listening. He hears you think it's harsh. He's just saying that those things hurt you. There's a lot of conventional things that hurt you. Pardon?

[66:21]

And help. Well, they help you win the baseball game. They help you defeat other people. They help you kill other people. Pardon? They don't help you keep track. They make it harder to keep track. They make it harder to be responsible. They're afflictions. They hinder the thing. But they basically cause trouble. But they are also, if you don't know anything about them, you aren't going to be able to talk to ordinary people because they've got them. You're in a different ballpark than them. No, no. I have these too. Like when I see certain people do certain things, I think, wow. And I go, that's like me. When I see people lying, I think, Oh yeah, I lie too. When people say I'm better than everybody else, plus good looking, when I see that, I think, oh, that sounds like me. I saw this Woody Allen movie a while ago.

[67:24]

I think it was called Midnight in Paris. And so he goes to, he's wandering around Paris at midnight, and he finds these scenes from the past. in Paris. One of the places he finds is early 20th century Paris, where James Joyce is there and Ernest Hemingway is there. You name it, all these great artists are in Paris in the 10s and 20s. Then one of the people who's talking away is Ernest Hemingway. He's so arrogant. I said, well, he was a good writer, but he was portrayed as this guy just talking away, thinking he knows the truth. I looked at him and I thought, that reminds me of me. I was so embarrassed that I was kind of like that portrayal of Ernest Hemingway. Anyway, basically we've all got these afflictions, and the thing is how to be devoted to them so that they can be liberated and other people can be liberated from us being.

[68:35]

Basically, this is the equipment of self-righteousness, these four. Self-view, self-pride, self-love. and self-delusion, misunderstanding the self, seeing things from the point of view of the self, being proud of the self, like I'm in control, and kind of loving it. A lot of people say, I'm just sick of myself. I want to get rid of it. I say, you want to train it for another one? Oh, no. If I have to have one, I want this one. So we might get to a point where somebody says, are you ready to trade selves with Kim? I say, okay. My self is not my favorite. No, it is my favorite. And to learn to respect other people as much as you respect yourself is a great spiritual attainment.

[69:42]

But you're not going to get free of it before you notice it. And after you notice it, you're not going to become free of it if you're not kind to it. So they're probably there in all of us. Vasubandhu said so. And having them makes life really much very difficult. And it makes it hard to remember the path. Like when people take my stuff, I might forget about practicing compassion. But if they take the stuff and it's not mine, Oh, you know, that is stuff. You did take it. But I would like to give it to you, even though it's not mine. This is more the realm of freedom from afflictions of the self. But there is self in us, usually. There is will, and there are afflictions. And it's also okay to... It's not that bad to say that calling them afflictions is harsh. It's okay. Definitely not a compliment. OK, one more. I think is next one.

[70:44]

Was it? Sonia? Did Sonia want to say something? Sonia? I think right now I'm just kind of swimming in a sea of words. Yes, you are. That's also another description of consciousness, swimming in a sea of words. And I don't think I want to, I don't think I have anything Anything what to add? I think what you just said was useful. When you said, I'm swimming in a world, in an ocean of words, that's helpful. For example, it says, I think it's in case 18, maybe, I'm not sure, of the Book of Serenity, it says, Sentient beings are turned about in the stream of words. This is our normal situation. We're getting tossed about in the stream of words. And to try to stop the stream is just more stream.

[71:48]

What we need to learn how to do is surf the stream. Or swim. Even immeasurably great beings are turned. Even highly cultivated beings are still turned. But I would say, although even highly cultivated people are turned, they also know how to surf. They've learned to surf. But their board is still getting thrown all over the place. But the way they deal with it is so lovely. And they make mistakes, and they admit it. It's so lovely. So you did make a contribution. Congratulations. And we'll look forward to your next contribution. I'm just kidding. We're not going to look forward. We're going to be ready for it. Yes? I believe that in the early teachings, it says that the proximate cause of faith is suffering. Does that relate?

[72:52]

Yeah, I think when there's suffering, you might be, and it's the proclimate cause, but maybe in brackets, and to be aware of it, to be aware that there's suffering, then you might say, hmm, I wonder what this is. Maybe it would be good to find out what this is. like a disease. There's a disease. I wonder how it works. Maybe it would be good to become a scientist, a medical scientist. Yeah, I think it is a proximate cause. But then also, was there a more distant cause? I don't remember. Maybe there's some texts that say, this is the proximate cause, and here's another one. And the other one might be that the Buddha is telling you that. By the way, this teaching about faith, faith is already there, but somebody needs to mention it to us so we can discover it.

[74:00]

It's right in our face all the time. We're really living in this realm of faith. But somebody has to say it. So today, I noticed in the sutra, the Buddha said, chief foremost in goodness said it. So I wanted to say it to you so you can discover it. I want you to discover faith because it's really helpful. It got me to start practicing, even though I didn't know it was faith. And again, the suffering, you could say, is the proximate cause because I was suffering I was suffering. And I kind of knew it. And then I saw, oh, wow, that way of responding in the world of suffering, that would be really good. I didn't think that gets rid of the suffering because he gets insulted. And then he gets praised. But then he's going to get insulted again. Like he had this great student named Tore. And Tore just was a great student, but he wouldn't do what Hakuen wanted.

[75:01]

He was a difficult, great student. So insult, praise, and then there's going to be more insult. So I was being insulted, and then I saw this guy show what to do when you're insulted. And so then the way I felt about insult and praise was my suffering. And so I was ready to see something that I could believe in, and I still believe in that. And I'm still suffering. But I have more confidence. I know more about my faith than I did 58 years ago. Thank you for all your questions. I wonder what time it is. Not too bad. It's still not 5 o'clock. Okay, but maybe we can stop. How do you feel about stopping?

[76:08]

I got a text message from one of my daughters recently, and it started out with, I thought, that's a nice way to start. Like, maybe, maybe not. This is how I like to stop. She's ready to stop, yes? No hurt. No hurt. Thank you. No hurt. And now I'm going to say something, no harm. Because hurt is sometimes good. Negative sensation is sometimes necessary. But negative sensation is not harmful. Like if I'm unkind to you, I kind of want it to hurt. I'm glad, oh, it hurt. Yeah, I was unkind to Toma and it hurt. I'm so glad it hurt. But if I harm you, I'm not glad of harming you. I don't want to harm you. But if the hurt helps me sometimes, a hurt could help you.

[77:10]

But I'm not trying to cause hurt. But I'm not saying no hurt. I'm saying no harm. Thank you all for your wonderful contributions, all the offerings you've made in service of the Buddha.

[77:25]

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