As I mentioned earlier, I'm not going to go through all of them, but I'm going to I was imagining that we would do a well-being ceremony today. Can people hear us in the background? Did you say no, John? John Briggs? Are you having trouble hearing me? I was imagining that we would have a well-being ceremony today. Could you bring the notebook, please? And the pen? Did some of you sign a name? Hearing aids make your own voice sound very loud, so I'm having a little bit of a hard time hearing you, even though I'm next to you. Maybe it's just me. Others are shaking their heads, but they're having a hard time hearing me, too.

[01:56]

We have quite a few names on this list. Does anybody else need to put a name on the list? I'm kicking them out. Maybe better that you hear than I do. There are so many things.

[03:17]

That I kind of would enjoy expressing. One of them is that someone told me that she was in a situation where she was in the presence of many people who had the same religion, and she felt a wish that the Buddhist Sangha was bigger. Sometimes in a country like America where there's so many people of the Christian faith, the Buddhist might seem rather small. The Buddhist Sangha might seem small in comparison.

[04:29]

But one of the things I said in response to this was that part of Buddhism is to develop an awareness that we're somewhat afraid of being a small group. Or an awareness that we might be afraid of being a small group in the middle of a big group that's different from us. It's kind of normal that humans would, if they feel like they're small or in a small group in the middle of a big group, they might feel somewhat endangered. We're kind of like, you could say almost like

[05:37]

have evolved to be sensitive to that. And I also, what popped in my mind was when I first came to California, I think I remember that 80% of the people in California were opposed to the death penalty for capital punishment. And then recently I heard it switched to 80% were in favor. So when I first came to California I felt kind of comfortable being in the majority vis-a-vis capital punishment. Most people would not want to execute me. Now, most people do want to execute me.

[06:38]

So I'm feeling a little less comfortable in that regard. But I'm working on trying to relax with that. Now I'm in the minority vis-a-vis execution. A few other people agree with me, let's not execute people. But let's not kill people. Let's find some other way to deal with each other. But still I feel potentially a little discomfort that most people are kind of thinking, no, execution could be good or is good. And then that's just another example of how we are aware, you know. So I'm in a little Buddhist Sangha in a big other Sangha. But I'm not trying to get rid of that and be in the big group.

[07:45]

I'm not going to switch to the big group or try to make the little group big so that I won't be afraid anymore. That's not my agenda. My agenda is to get over being afraid of being small and vulnerable. Because really, I am small and vulnerable. I'm tiny and vulnerable. And I can be afraid of that. But I want to honor that fear if it comes up. And by honoring that fear, I would like to become free of it. That's what I came to practice, to learn to be free of being afraid, of being vulnerable and fragile and little. This life is fragile and precious. It's wonderful and vulnerable.

[08:52]

And part of its wonderfulness is that it's vulnerable. It's not an invulnerable situation. It's a vulnerable life. That's the one I want to open to, because that's the one I think I've got. And also, the little Buddhist Sangha, or the big Buddhist Sangha, there's a comment on that, which is that what we're really doing here is not Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism, or Hinduism, or Buddhism. We're trying to do something which is free of Buddhism.

[09:54]

You know, if Buddhism is small, all the better to be free of it. Is Buddhism big? Buddhism is about being free of big Buddhism and little Buddhism. It's about being free of big Christianity and little Christianity. It's about being free of... It's about the freedom of all religions from all religions. That's what the Buddha Dharma is about. But people, you know, are scared of being small. Without training, people are naturally scared of being small and scared of being in the minority, and that's understandable. And the Buddha Dharma doesn't teach to deny that we're afraid when we're in a minority. It teaches to be compassionate to the fear,

[11:00]

and to confess it, and to study it, for the sake of becoming free of the fear of being in a vulnerable minority, and then help other people. Because everybody, no matter what group they're in, when it comes down to themselves, they're a minority, and vulnerable to many things, and one of the things they're vulnerable to is fear. But fear can be engaged with in a way to liberate us from it, and we can also become liberated from vulnerability without taking away the vulnerability. Vulnerable people can be free, and I guess I would say the only kind of people

[12:03]

that can be free are vulnerable people, because there aren't any other types. Fragile people can be free. The Buddhas are fragile and vulnerable, they're totally vulnerable, they're vulnerable to everybody, and they're completely free. But we have to train to realize that. And in this house, we sometimes call the training Zen Meditation. But we also sometimes call the training Bodhisattva Precepts. And in relationship to Zen Meditation,

[13:08]

we have Bodhisattva Vows. And in relationship to Bodhisattva Precepts, we have Bodhisattva Vows. For example, a Bodhisattva Vow, I wish to become free of all fear, so that all beings can be liberated from all fear. And I wish to practice Zen Meditation as the path to liberate all beings from fear. I wish to practice the Bodhisattva Precepts. I vow, I wish to practice the Bodhisattva Precepts. I vow to practice the Bodhisattva Precepts in order that all beings will be free of fear and at peace

[14:08]

in their vulnerability. Someone said to me recently, could you give me some instruction in the Bodhisattva Precepts? And I said, I'd be happy to. And then I thought, oh, there's a book called Being Upright. And on the cover of the book, it says, Zen Meditation and the Bodhisattva Precepts. I saw a copy of that book in the interview room a few minutes ago, and I took it off the shelf and put it on the lectern. I was going to bring it here and show it to you. But then I thought, well, I don't need to bring the book.

[15:12]

I'm going to have to bring the lectern. So I'm just telling you, there's a book, and it says, Zen Meditation and the Bodhisattva Precepts. But when I told this person about the subtitle, I said, maybe it should say Zen Meditation as Bodhisattva Precepts. The and the is a little bit of a problem. It's not like there's Zen Meditation, and the Bodhisattva Precepts. It's Zen Meditation is the Bodhisattva Precepts. And the Bodhisattva Precepts are Zen Meditation. That's a basic instruction that I would offer about Zen Meditation. In the interview room,

[16:20]

there's a nice kind of like hard plastic envelope that's kind of red and gray, I think. Would you bring it? It's got some stuff inside. Zen Meditation is also Zen Meditation is also freedom from fear. Zen Meditation is complete perfect enlightenment. Complete perfect enlightenment is the Bodhisattva Precepts. Zen Meditation is the treasury of true Dharma eyes. It's the inconceivable mind of nirvana.

[17:21]

The Bodhisattva Precepts are also the treasury of true Dharma eyes. The inconceivable mind of nirvana. The inconceivable mind of nirvana says when it talks, and it does talk, it says, going for refuge in enlightenment, going for refuge in reality, going for refuge in the Sangha. It says, not killing, not stealing, not misusing sexuality, not lying. That's what fearlessness says. Sorry, I don't see it. Well?

[18:24]

The hard plastic envelope. It's not plastic, it's cardboard. The hard cardboard envelope. Red and gray. Maybe... Anyways, it's horizontal and it's on top of some books. How big is it? It's big enough to have eight and a half by eleven pieces of paper in it. It has pieces of paper inside on which are printed, in English, the sixteen great Bodhisattva Precepts. So I thought I would show them to you. Some of you maybe don't know them, but I'm familiar with them. Zen meditation is embracing and sustaining forms and ceremonies. Zen meditation is

[19:30]

embracing and sustaining all wholesome activities. Zen meditation is embracing and sustaining all living beings. Buddha is embracing and sustaining forms and ceremonies. Buddha is embracing and sustaining all wholesome activities. Buddha is Buddha is embracing and sustaining all beings. That's what Zen meditation is. Zen meditation is embracing and sustaining all beings. That's what Zen meditation is.

[20:42]

www.mooji.org It doesn't look anything like I thought it would. Here is the envelope. Inside is the Lotus Sutra. And here are copies of the 16 Bodhisattva precepts of the Soto Zen school in descent

[22:22]

from Dogen Zenji. If any of you would like to look at this, you can help yourself. If you already know them, maybe you could not take one. Please sit down. One understanding of Bodhisattva precepts might be that there is Bodhisattva precepts and then there is concentration practice and then there is wisdom practice.

[23:28]

Sometimes the practice of the Buddhist is presented as having ethical precepts, concentration precepts, wisdom precepts. But in this particular school, the Bodhisattva precepts are not one of the three. They are all three together in an inseparable practice. Zen meditation is practicing ethics, practicing concentration, and practicing wisdom. Bodhisattva precepts is practicing ethics, practicing concentration, practicing wisdom. And it uses forms and ceremonies. It makes the forms of our life into ceremonies, into enactments of complete perfect enlightenment.

[24:56]

It practices wholesome exercises like generosity, ethics, patience, diligence, concentration and wisdom. And it embraces and sustains all beings. And in embracing and sustaining all beings, it enacts the precepts and it enacts the meditation. Because the meditation, the Zen meditation, is embracing and sustaining all beings. The Zen meditation is the embracing and sustaining of all beings. The Zen meditation is the way all of you are embracing and sustaining me. And the way I am embracing and sustaining all of you.

[26:05]

The way my practice is the same as your practice is the way I am embracing and sustaining you. And the way that your practice is the same as our practice is the way you are embracing and sustaining us. The way you are embracing and sustaining us and the way we are embracing and sustaining you, that is Zen meditation in this school. The way I practice by myself is an idea that I can practice. The way I am practicing by myself is just an idea. There is actually no way that I can actually practice by myself. But I can think that. I can think that. I can think that I am practicing by myself. And that person is a vulnerable, fragile person that thinks that way.

[27:10]

And that vulnerable person who thinks he can practice by himself, and thinks his practice is above or below average, that person is embraced and sustained by all beings. And that person who thinks he can practice by himself embraces and sustains all beings. But if he believes that he can practice by himself, he might not simultaneously believe that he can embrace and sustain all beings, and that they are embracing and sustaining him. Because if they were embracing and sustaining him, he would not be practicing by himself. But they are, so he is not. I am not practicing by myself. Whatever way I am practicing is due to your support. And the way I practice, however bad it is, you support me.

[28:14]

However bad my practice is, really, in the Bodhisattva precepts, you can't blame me. Because you have the same practice as me. And whatever enlightenment I'm living, and whatever enlightenment is living me, is the same enlightenment that's living you. That practice, the practice which is the same enlightenment of you and me, that's Zen meditation in this school. And that is the Bodhisattva precepts, which of course include embracing and sustaining all beings. But not just that. Embracing and sustaining all wholesome activities. But then one might think, well, if I can't...

[29:20]

Where are all these wholesome activities? I don't see myself being generous right now. I don't see myself being patient right now. But I do see myself being honest in saying that I don't see myself being patient. I honestly feel that way. So, in that case, I do see myself practicing the precept of being honest. But I'm not talking about the way I see myself being patient. I'm not talking about the way I see myself being generous, although I do see myself as being generous or not. I'm talking about the way, while I think I'm being generous, I am embracing and sustaining all beings. While I think I'm being generous, all beings are embracing and sustaining me.

[30:24]

Or, while I think I'm not being generous, and say I'm sorry, right at the moment that I feel sorry that I'm being stingy, there's a practice, which is not someplace else. It's right here. It's the way I'm living. And it's the way I'm living while I feel stingy that I embrace and sustain all beings and all beings embrace and sustain me while I feel stingy. And by opening to the fact that I feel stingy, by completely opening to the fact that I feel stingy, because it's not a fact that I am stingy, stinginess is not a fact. But perceiving stinginess is a fact.

[31:25]

And the fact is that it's a perception, and perceptions are not reality. They're a narrow little view of reality. He's stingy. I'm stingy. Yes. Right. That's the perception. And I wish to open completely, I wish to embrace and sustain that perception. And I wish that perception to embrace and sustain me, and I wish to open to embracing and sustaining all perceptions, all perceiving beings. And I wish to open to them, and I wish to open to that they are open to me, and I wish to open to embracing and sustaining them, and I wish to open to them embracing and sustaining me. In other words, I wish to open to Zen meditation. Of this school,

[32:28]

the Zen meditation of this school is the same practice as me, when I'm feeling stingy, and all of you, however you're feeling. The way we're doing the same practice is the practice. So, maybe at this moment, 30% of the people are feeling stingy, and 70% are feeling generous. Fine. That's the current survey on that opinion. The next moment it may shift. Right now, 26% may be frightened, and 73% are fearless. Fine. Fine, we start with that. Fine means we work with that. But that's not the end. Then we remember that the stingy ones and the un-stingy ones

[33:31]

are embracing and sustaining each other, and they have their practice. The practice that's the same for the stingy and the generous, that practice is the Buddhist practice. The Buddhist practice is not the practice of the generous ones, the ones who think they're generous. It's not the practice of the ones who think they're stingy. It's the way the generous ones and the stingy ones are embracing and sustaining each other. It's the way they're practicing generosity together. The way the stingy ones are practicing generosity with the ones who are generous, who are practicing generosity. Generosity is not my idea of generosity. Generosity is Buddha. It is the Bodhisattva precept.

[34:34]

Generosity is not killing, is not stealing, is not misusing sexuality. So the practice which is the same practice and the same enlightenment as you and all beings, is of course, I don't know, of course, to me it's of course, it's inconceivable. I cannot, no idea I have can actually do justice to this inconceivable process of Buddha's enlightenment. The inconceivable process of the Bodhisattva precepts, the inconceivable Zen meditation, and again, Zen meditation embraces and sustains forms and ceremonies. It uses some particular form

[35:35]

to adopt and use that form to demonstrate that nobody is doing it alone. To take a piece of incense with your thumb and forefinger and grasp the incense and in that form, to use that form, to embrace that form, to realize the practice you're doing together with everybody. To realize the enlightenment of all beings. Or to write somebody's name on a piece of paper. To use that form. And then to do a ceremony,

[36:38]

a well-being ceremony. To embrace that form, to realize embracing and sustaining all beings. If we don't use the forms for that, we miss part of the practice, which is the part of the practice where we restrain the thought that we're practicing alone. Where we restrain the thought that you can do something by yourself alone, without the support of all beings. Where you restrain the thought that what you're doing is not together with everybody else.

[37:39]

If you don't do something, if you don't perform a form, you might not say, that thing I didn't do, I did all by myself. The things we don't do, we don't usually think we're doing alone. The forms and ceremonies which we're not practicing, we don't think, I did that. Like my leader, my little leader, she says, I did it! I did it! I did it! And I say, you did it! So now I've got something to work with. I did it! Now there are certain things she doesn't do. Certain forms do not happen.

[38:46]

They don't. She's not involved with certain forms and ceremonies. So she doesn't say, I did it. But when she does use a form, then she can say, I did it. And now we can start Dharma education of being gracious to her, and realize that when she says, I did it, I support her to say that. I support her to think that she did it by herself. She has to go through that phase of thinking that she can do something by herself, and that she owns her mother. And now she's even extended to my granddaddy. So a couple nights ago,

[39:52]

and I said, I think I should go now. And she said, don't go! My granddaddy. And I said, yes, I am your granddaddy. But I have not yet said to her, can all beings support me to be your granddaddy? And me being your granddaddy supports all beings. I haven't told her that yet. It took her a while to extend my mommy, and she's not yours, and she's not your daughter, she's my mommy, to my mommy, and now my granddaddy. You all support her to say that. She supports you when she says it. How you support her, and how she supports you,

[40:56]

is inconceivable. But that is Zen meditation. And when I tell her that what she's doing is the same practice and the same enlightenment as all beings, when I tell her, she'll probably say, like her brother, that's totally incomprehensible. What does he say? What does he actually say? That's what her brother said one time. A couple of years ago, just before she was born, I brought her brother a new bicycle, and I gave it to him. I brought it in my car from San Francisco to Santa Barbara and gave him the bicycle. And after he was riding it for a while, I said, so his little sister is in his mother's womb, and I said, how do you feel about your new bicycle?

[41:57]

And he said, my sister's not going to ride it. Did you hear that, John? My sister's not going to ride it. And I said, by the time she can ride it, you'll be in college. And then he said, I still won't want her to ride it. And then I said to him, but you'll be a totally different person than you are now. And he says, that's totally incomprehensible. So... So what I'm saying to you, you could say is totally incomprehensible, and I hear you. But, since that woman asked for some instruction on bodhisattva precepts, I said this. So, it's not really about

[43:02]

doing good and not doing evil. We say, do good and don't do evil, but that's not about doing good and not doing evil. It's about the way we're supporting each other right now is not doing evil, and it is doing good. But that's not me doing good and me not doing evil. It's the way you're supporting me right now, that's the not doing evil and the doing of good. And from you supporting me, and from me supporting you, and from you supporting each other, comes the teaching. Don't do evil, do good. Comes the precept. Comes the precept.

[44:06]

Not killing. From supporting each other, from the land of supporting each other, comes don't take what's not given. And when I say this, I think of my childhood in Minnesota, when I heard the ad for Ham's Beer, which goes, From the land of sky blue waters, waters, comes the, from the land of pines, lofty balsams, comes the beer refreshing. Ham's the beer refreshing, Ham's. From the land of sky blue waters, from the land of supporting each other and being supported by each other,

[45:09]

from the land of embracing and sustaining all beings, comes the Buddha Dharma. Comes the Buddha Dharma, which is not killing, not stealing, not misusing sexuality, not lying, not intoxicating. From the actual practice of the Bodhisattva precepts, comes these words. Comes these words. And then someone says, could you give some instruction? OK. These words are referring to something which these words don't reach. Going for refuge in Buddha are words about Buddha. They're words about

[46:10]

going for refuge in embracing and sustaining all beings. So, when we practice Zen meditation, the precepts tell us the sitting we're doing, the sitting we have been doing, the sitting we will be doing, the sitting we're doing right now, the form of sitting we're doing right now, that form which everybody supports you to do right now, it resonates through your whole past and your whole future, to embrace and sustain all beings. The sitting we're doing right now is embracing and sustaining all beings right now. And it's also embracing and sustaining beings before, right now, and after. There's no end

[47:12]

to this practice and no beginning. And we get to celebrate that right now. This is Zen meditation. This is the Bodhisattva precepts. This seems to be a very optimistic and wonderful, wonderfully happy version of reality. That we're being told that in reality we are embracing and sustaining all beings and they are embracing and sustaining us. Our job is to, right now, in this form,

[48:13]

listen to that and open to that. But it's hard sometimes when we think I'm stingy or she's stingy or I'm feeling irritated. But if somebody whispers gently in my ear do you remember that all beings are supporting you feeling irritated? And that your being here and being irritated right now is the same practice as all beings? And I might say yes. And it didn't do anything to the irritation. It didn't get rid of the irritation. The irritation wasn't jiggled

[49:16]

or moved at all. And yet I'm satisfied with being an irritated person. I'm satisfied, totally satisfied and fearless that you're irritated with me. If you are. And if you want to stop being irritated with me I'm ready for that. And if you're not and you want to start I'm ready for that. This is the Bodhisattva precepts. This is the Bodhisattva precepts.

[50:24]

From the land of sky blue waters I also mentioned recently that in this ad they had this picture a lake with sky blue sparkling waters and not just one round lake but a lake that had bays so here's kind of a bay with pine trees around the edge and you can see it narrows and then there's another bay and it narrows and you see another bay so you see these bays going off into infinity. Is that clear? It wasn't just like looking out on the Pacific it's like looking out on the Pacific and then the Pacific kind of like comes together and then opens up again out into the horizon. That's what the ad looked like. And then when I was about 12 years old somebody took me on a fishing trip to northern Minnesota and it actually does look like that up there.

[51:27]

They have these lakes that go on from here to the horizon lake after lake after lake and they're all sky blue waters and there's ham's beard squirting out of it. No, this way. So now, you don't have to listen to me anymore. I'm going to listen to you. Okay. The instruction is point it towards the nose. Yes.

[52:31]

What's the relationship between fear and karma? What's the relationship between fear and karma? Beer and karma, I'm okay with. Do I know the relationship between beer? I'm okay with that one. It's fear. You asked about fear, right? The next course is about the relationship between beer and karma. The relationship between fear and karma. One story. The relationship between fear and karma. The actual teaching. The teaching of the actuality of the relationship is that all beings support you

[53:34]

in your karmic function. And all beings support that your karmic function sometimes includes fear. That's the actuality of the relationship. It's that the way you're supported and the way you support all beings is that in your karmic consciousness fear sometimes appears. Now, a survey has been conducted and the results are that in almost all karmic consciousnesses there is fear. So you could also say that the relationship between fear and karma, because karma only occurs in karmic consciousness, karma only occurs in karmic consciousness. The results of karma, however, do not appear only in karmic consciousness. But the karma itself,

[54:34]

the actual activity of karma is the activity of consciousness. And in consciousness there is often fear. And also in consciousness there is almost always, I'll just say always to make life simple for you, a sense that somebody's there. And in karmic consciousness, where karma occurs, there's a sense that that somebody is aware of a world. But the world doesn't look like that somebody and that world doesn't look like a consciousness. It looks like a world that's not consciousness. So karmic consciousness is usually, until it's illuminated, it's deceptive. And even after it's illuminated,

[55:35]

the illumination illuminates the deceptiveness. So in unilluminated karmic consciousness there is the appearance of somebody there and it looks like that somebody does certain things and not other things. And it looks like there's a world and the world doesn't... In karmic consciousness it looks like the world's not consciousness but it is consciousness and when the world appears to be not consciousness and there's a somebody there, that somebody is aware of fear. As long as the world looks like not consciousness and you believe it, you're a little bit afraid. However, at the same time, all beings are supporting you to have this life,

[56:36]

this karmic life, with its fear. And you, being that way, support all beings. Even beings who do not have consciousness are supported by you, conscious beings. And even beings who do not have consciousness are supporting you. And realms of your life, of your actual cognitive life, some realms of your cognitive life you share with other conscious beings and that realm of cognitive life supports your... that realm of cognitive life, which is not conscious, supports your conscious life where there's fear. And also some parts of your cognitive life which are not shared also support your conscious life. So we're being supported. We, where we live as selves,

[57:37]

where we live as somebody we hear, that realm is surrounded by a vast cognitive field which supports this conscious realm where there's fear and beer. So those vast cognitive realms are supporting our conscious life and our conscious life produces these vast unconscious cognitive realms. And part of these vast unconscious cognitive realms are shared, and some are not, with other beings' conscious realms where they too have this deceptive consciousness. But the good news is that the Buddhadharma touches conscious beings and conscious beings respond to it by making images of what the Buddhadharma is.

[58:40]

And by working together we can work out these images in such a way that we can practice with consciousness in such a way that we can become free of it right while it's happening, without changing it at all. Now, that way of working with it does change it, but at the very moment of working with it we work with it as it is. Any further questions on that point? Thank you. You're welcome. Yes, Duke? A few weeks ago, an old student of Suzuki Roshi's told me and a group of people that he was mentioning his disciples in a speech, in a talk. Suzuki Roshi mentioned his disciples in a talk? In a talk or something like that. Suzuki Roshi was talking and he said, my disciples, blah blah, I don't know what it was. And afterwards you went up and asked him,

[59:46]

who are your disciples? And what you said was that his response was that people who practice for the benefit of themselves, there are people who practice for the benefit of themselves, and people who practice for the benefit of others, and the people who practice for the benefit of others are his disciples. Right. Is that correct? Yes. How does that fit into what you've been talking about, how no matter what we're doing, we are supporting and sustaining all beings? Right? Who are Suzuki Roshi's disciples? Is it everyone? Well, for example, this example, okay? He didn't say that, I didn't say who are your students, he didn't say students, he said disciples. So, in some sense he did have students that were practicing for themselves, and he cared. Sometimes it looked like he was,

[60:48]

well, it looked like he was kind to everybody, as he was to everybody. I didn't see him being less kind to the people who were there. Maybe even public as saying, I must confess I'm here only to practice for myself. So, but disciple, I think he meant disciple, like the people who are transmitting the teaching, who are showing the practice. But I think he would also, I don't know what he would do, but I would think he might also see that the people who are practicing at Tassajara, anyway, at Zen Center, for their own benefit, that they are supporting all beings, and all beings support them to be that way. Just like I said, I support my little leader to say, I did it. My mommy. I don't argue with her.

[61:52]

She seems to be primarily concerned with her own welfare. She seems to be an excellent example of somebody who's focused on her own welfare. And she gets confused about what it would be, but that's her focus, it looks like. But I totally feel like she's supporting me, and I'm supporting her. And she's supporting her parents, and they're supporting her. And many people are supporting her, and embracing and sustaining her. She, however, doesn't get that. It looks like. It looks like she sometimes feels like, what you have in mind is not supporting me. For example, turning the TV off is not supportive. Having dinner now is not my idea of people embracing and sustaining me. So, her mother had a pain in her back,

[62:58]

so I was massaging her mother, and she said, no, give me a massage. And her mother says, after me, you can have a massage. So after her mother was finished, she said thank you, and then I gave her a massage. And then her mother says, dinner time. And when she heard it was dinner time, she went, and then the massage went on. And then dinner time, the massage went on. And then finally I said, I'll massage you while I carry you to the table. So we got to the table, and she wanted me to continue to massage her while she was eating. And that looked just right to her, for this program. But then it can shift somehow, and then that's not what she wants. But in fact, the teaching is, she is embracing and sustaining everybody,

[63:59]

all the time. And everybody is embracing and sustaining her all the time. There's no way for us to get out of interdependence. That's the reality. But that reality is inconceivable. We can't see how we're supporting each other. In karmic consciousness, where there's fear, in the realm where there's fear, is karmic consciousness. There, it looks like things are a certain way, and everything has a sign on it which says, this is true. It's like, it looks so real. How could it not be? So that we can think, well that really would be fun, to do that. And then we arouse ourselves and go do it. There's certain reasons for that. In karmic consciousness, it does not look like everybody is supporting you, every moment. And it doesn't look like

[65:01]

you're supporting everybody. That's a teaching. And also, another part of that story about Suzuki Roshi is when I asked him who his disciples were, he referred to his karmic consciousness. And he told me about his karmic consciousness. And he said, I don't like it that much that my karmic consciousness does this, but it does. When you say, who are your disciples, then when you say that, my karmic consciousness goes and makes a picture of disciples and non-disciples. And he doesn't like it, but it does. The Zen master admits, I have a karmic consciousness which discriminates between disciples and non-disciples. It discriminates between those who are at a stage of life where they think they're practicing for themselves, and other people are at a stage of life where they think, I'm here to practice for others. He doesn't like that his mind does that, but it does. And he says,

[66:01]

my disciples are those guys. But, I think he also knows that that's just him being willing to talk to me in terms of that question. And him giving me an answer in terms of that question. But not everybody is Buddha's disciple, even though Buddha is supporting everybody and everybody is supporting Buddha. Not everybody has listened to the Dharma and listened to the Dharma and listened to the Dharma and listened to the Dharma enough so that they are practicing with their karmic consciousness in a way that they understand it's an illusion without trying to get rid of the illusion. Not everybody has listened to teaching enough so that the karmic consciousness appears in such a way that the things that are real

[67:04]

have a little Dharma sign next to them which says, not really, this is an illusion, this is a picture of reality. And it's possible to train yourself so that all the realities that appear in consciousness in a sense have another sign next to them which says, idea only. And no killing, no stealing, everything has the Bodhisattva precepts written on them. And everything says, this thing supports all beings and all beings support this thing. So the karmic consciousness gets changed without changing anything. Everything is just the same and yet the Dharma, the light of Dharma shining, the inconceivable light is shining on everything. So it's illuminated without messing with anything.

[68:05]

Because we don't want to mess with things because everything is supporting everything. We want to liberate everything. We don't want to deny anything or affirm anything, really. We want to liberate everything. But really, we want to realize that everything is liberated. Because the way things really are is liberation. Reality is liberation. And liberation is the way things actually are functioning. But it's inconceivable. So we have plenty of conceivable stuff, so how do we make it so we are related to the conceivable stuff so we can open to their inconceivable, profound way that they are living? By applying the teachings to all the conceivable stuff. By taking the conceivable teachings and putting them on all the conceivable stuff.

[69:06]

And in this way, after a while, what's the difference between conceivable and inconceivable? The difference between conceivable and inconceivable

[70:10]

is an idea. Only. Yes? I didn't really follow your response to Brack. And the part that particularly I didn't understand is that you said there were some things that are not shared. There were some karmic unconsciousness or something that were not shared. And that I really didn't understand. I didn't say karmic consciousness is not shared. I didn't know what was not shared. What were you referring to? Some cognitive processes are not shared and some cognitive processes are shared. But these two cognitive processes I'm talking about are not conscious. So part of our cognitive life, part of our mind life, is consciousness. And part of it is non-conscious.

[71:12]

And so they're not shared, you mean, between people? Like, for example, the way this body figures out how to make these hand gestures, I cannot consciously figure out how that happens. I cannot consciously do this. The way Glenn Gould plays the piano, Glenn Gould cannot consciously figure out. Right. You mean shared within the organism itself? Yeah. Okay. And the way he plays the piano, which he's not consciously operating, the piano playing, it's an unconscious cognitive process, is not shared by the people who are watching. Even if they're as good at playing the piano as him, they're not sharing the support of his consciousness. That's where I get lost. Because if I think of everything supporting everything, I don't understand it's not sharing. Well, he's supported by all beings to have certain cognitive processes which no one shares.

[72:12]

You are supported to have private, unconscious, cognitive activity. You're also supported by me and all your friends and enemies to have private, conscious activity. Okay. But there's also a cognitive process that you're supported to participate in, and everybody's participating in, that's shared, and we call that part the physical world. The physical world, as it appears, and actually supports our conscious version of it, is also cognition. And so then the phrase, the collective unconscious, where would that fit in this? The collective unconscious is very similar to what I'm calling the common cognitive process. And it's the physical world that supports our conscious lives.

[73:16]

And in that physical world, there's not really the appearance of separate physical bodies. The difference between different physical bodies is only an idea. Different physical bodies are totally supporting, embracing, and sustaining each other. But that's a cognitive process. That's good enough. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, now we could have a well-being ceremony, if you're ready. Are you? So we're just going to know, we're going to segue into the well-being ceremony.

[74:18]

Ready? We're not going to end the ceremony. We're just going to go directly into the well-being ceremony.

[74:29]

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