I'm looking for a word to express how I feel about all the horrible violence that there is appearing in our world. And also to say that I think that many of us in this assembly are having a lot of feelings about this horrible violence, this tremendous disrespect of life. Human beings seem to be expressing disrespect and hatred.

[01:01]

And it's horrible. It's the worst, this cruelty. I remember one time Suzuki Roshi's wife said Suzuki Roshi's way is not to hate she was observing some people hating right in the Zen Center so in the Zen Center in Minneapolis in Ukraine in Gaza in Iraq

[02:11]

all around the world. Our way is not to hate. Our way is compassion. In a world of such our offering is compassion. And today, we have gathered here to help each other remember great friendliness, great kindness, great compassion. It's hard, it's easy to forget sometimes that that's our practice. So there's gratitude for all of you coming here to help all of you practice the bodhisattva way.

[03:32]

In the midst of all this unhappiness and cruelty, we gather together to focus our attention on teachings for bodhisattvas. for beings who aspire to awakening to Buddhahood for the welfare of the world which continues to offer horrors more or less arising and ceasing So we're focusing here for the last couple of years, more than two and a half years, we've been focusing on teachings for bodhisattvas that are offered in the oceanic scripture called the flower adornment scripture.

[04:50]

These teachings are for this world to help us bring blessings in a world like we have which has lots of blessings already we wish to give more blessings to demonstrate peace in this world to demonstrate respect to demonstrate not putting ourselves above anybody else including people who put themselves above us. We're not better than those who look down on us. We are their friends. We are their bodhisattvas. And we cannot...

[06:02]

do this bodhisattva thing by ourselves, so thank you for coming to help us practice the bodhisattva way. We need help, and we need, of course, to give help. Now, after two and a half years, we have just recently spent quite a bit of time, we've given quite a bit of attention, to the 15th book of the Great Scripture. The Great Scripture which teaches that the whole universe is the Great Scripture. And not only that, but every particle in the universe is the Great Scripture. The great scripture is present in every particle.

[07:03]

We are particles. The great scripture is present in our body and mind. So how to practice with this scripture. And we've been, as I said, we spent quite a bit of time on chapter, on book 15, which is... ten abodes, the ten abodes of bodhisattvas. I'm not in a hurry, but perhaps we could look at chapter 16. In this ocean, we can look at the part called chapter 16. The title of this scripture is a little bit multidimensional.

[08:06]

In the Chinese original, we don't have the Sanskrit anymore, but the Chinese, it's two characters for the name of this book. And one way to translate those two characters is religious practice Another way to translate it is Brahma practice. Another way, those are translations. Another way would be to translate it, not exactly translate, but to understand it means pure practice. Another way is that it means Bodhisattva practice. Another way to understand it is it means Zen practice. So in a way, I'd just like to say practice.

[09:08]

And you can understand that if I say practice, I mean bodhisattva practice. In this book, the practice is bodhisattva practices. And it's pure. It's a pure practice in the sense that will be revealed in this chapter. This chapter will focus on the purity of the bodhisattva practice. But the previous 15 also did. And chapter 11, which we spent some time on, is called Pure Practice. Pure Practice or Purifying Practices, which is a book, which is a chapter, which lists verse after verse of aspirations for the welfare of beings. Chapter 11. The first verse is bodhisattvas living at home where there's TVs and newspapers and kitchens and dogs bodhisattvas living at home vow with all beings that they may see and understand

[10:33]

that the nature of home is emptiness and be free of its stresses and pressures. Home has a positive valence but also home is where the most murders are committed. Home can be extremely stressful. It can be a place of violence the first verse of chapter 11 is bodhisattvas living at home they vow with all beings that all beings will see the nature of home is emptiness and be free of its stresses and pain So we've been talking about pure practice, chapter after chapter, and now this chapter is called pure practice.

[11:41]

Again, in a way, Brahma practice, religious practice, bodhisattva practice. Yes? Could you clarify what is meant by ingenious in this context? Clarify? The nature of home is ungraspable. it cannot be apprehended and when you see that the nature of home cannot be apprehended for example when you see that the nature of your spouse cannot be apprehended then you might not fall for your views of your spouse sometimes people have terrible views of their spouses and then they grasp them. But sometimes people have lovely views of their spouse and they grasp them. In either case, it creates stress. So the bodhisattvas aspire with all beings, pray with all beings that they will see that these beings that we live with in the house, in the home,

[12:58]

are free of what we think of them, are free of our views of them. They are actually emptiness, vast emptiness. And we see them in a very limited way. So it would be good if we did not grasp what we think is going on in our home. That's the first verse of quite a few in that chapter. Now in this chapter, a somewhat different presentation about the practice. So this chapter starts by mentioning a divine child, a child of the gods, a child of the goddesses.

[14:00]

a godchild, which some people translate as godlin. So there's a godchild whose name is Right Mindfulness. And this godchild addresses the bodhisattva who's been the main speaker of Chapter 15. And that bodhisattva's name is Dharma Wisdom. So the God-child right mindfulness says to the bodhisattva, Dharma wisdom, how can bodhisattvas attain purity of practice and from the state of bodhisattva reach the path of unexcelled awakening?

[15:03]

That's the question. How can the bodhisattva attain purity of practice and from the state of bodhisattva reach the path of unexcelled awakening? Now, in this book, bodhisattvas are sometimes the people, the beings, not just people, but the beings who aspire to unexcelled awakening. That's sort of what a bodhisattva is. They want to attain an awakening to teach compassion in this world. So how can they have pure practice? And then wisdom, a Dharma wisdom bodhisattva says, great bodhisattvas, when performing the practice, should attentively contemplate ten things.

[16:22]

Should make ten things the basis of their thought. the basis of their mindfulness, and formulate an intention to contemplate these ten things. What are the ten? Kind of easy to remember. They are a body. and bodily karma. Body and body action. They are speech and speech karma. They are mind and mind karma. That's six. Easy to remember, right? Body, speech and mind and then the actions of body, speech and mind.

[17:31]

The next three are Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. And the last one is the Bodhisattva precepts. Those are ten. Do you get the ten? Do you remember them? Yeah. It's one of the easiest lists of ten because the first six are so closely related. to our daily activity of body, speech and mind. So what happens then is then that bodhisattvas are being instructed to contemplate these ten and then furthermore that the contemplation should be for each one to ask is it practice so here's the ten to contemplate but now another layer of the contemplation is are each or all of these ten practice and let me just tell you right away that the sutra doesn't say no these ten are not practice and it doesn't say yes

[19:00]

they are practice. However, it does question whether they're practice. So the practice, the contemplation is to question whether these ten things are practice. And again, the conclusion is not that they're not practice, it's just that if you say they are practice, you get into trouble. And for the first six, that's not so difficult, but One might think, well, Buddha's practice, next to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, isn't Buddha practiced? Isn't Dharma practiced? Isn't Sangha practiced? And again, the answer is not no. The answer is, if you say that the practice is Buddha, we're going to run into trouble. If you say that the practice is Dharma... It's going to be inconsistent.

[20:02]

There's going to be contradiction. It's not going to be so. That's similar to no. Is the Dharma Dharma practice? Well, if it was, it wouldn't make sense. So there's a practice, but the practice is to question whether any of these ten things are the practice. And a lot of Zen stories are about questioning whether these ten things are practice. So then, I'm not going into the argument for each of the questions, each of these ten. I'm not going to go into that now. I'll go into it if you request. But I think it's a little bit big bite to go into all ten at this time.

[21:02]

to go into each of the ten and all the questions about that ten, each of the ten. I'm just going to tell you that the conclusion of the question, is the body practice? Is body karma practice? The conclusion is that contemplating these ten things, the sutra shows that there is nothing that is practice. There is no single dharma. that is bodhisattva practice. Bodhisattva practice is there's no single thing that's not bodhisattva practice. And that's not a thing. And if you make it a thing, then... Then, the sutra says, having contemplated thus, in other words, having checked out these ten things and not fallen into grasping any of them as the thing of making the bodhisattva practice into that thing, after contemplating thus, after contemplating thus, having no attachments.

[22:31]

having no dwelling in the teaching. The past is gone. The future has not yet arrived. The present is empty. There is no doer, no receiver of action. What therein is to be called practice. Having no attachment to body. Having no clinging to the Dharma. No dwelling in the Dharma. No past, no future, no present. thing is there to be called practice.

[23:34]

And the next section, I just want to say before I read it, it reminds me of what we say in the kind of celebration at the end of a precept ceremony. Here's what the sutra says. Where does practice come from? in the ceremony say where did the precepts come from where is it where are the precepts who is the body to whom does the practice belong to whom do the precepts belong by whom is the practice performed by whom is the practice created These are bodhisattva contemplations of bodhisattva practice.

[24:37]

Does the practice exist? Does the practice not exist? Is it form? Is it non-form? Is it action? Is it non-action? It goes on for quite a while asking questions like this. About what? About the practice. It seems like this chapter is encouraging us to question what the practice is. When we're sitting, when we're walking, when we're talking, when we're thinking, what is the practice? Is it what I'm thinking? So after all these contemplations, again it says, contemplating in this way, because the reality of practice, because the reality of bodhisattva practice cannot be apprehended, is such a practice called pure bodhisattva practice.

[25:55]

So all these practices are kind of doing the same thing. They're inquiring into, what is it? Can it be grasped? And the more we look, the more we say, it is ungraspable. It is emptiness. The Bodhisattva practices are emptiness. Then something kind of, to me, a little bit surprising happens is, again, the ten powers of Buddha are brought up. which we talked about in previous chapters. These ten powers of Buddha are brought up. And the ten powers of Buddhas are ten knowledges that Buddhas have. Again, these ten knowledges are more difficult to remember than these ten topics that we talked about before. They're all knowledges. I'll just say the first one. It is the knowledge of what is so and what is not.

[27:03]

It is the knowledge of what is the case and what is not the case. That's the first one. Buddhas have such knowledge. And the last one is the knowledge of the forever cutting off habitual energy. Not knowing that. That makes ten in the form of two. Then the sutra recommends contemplating each of these ten powers of Buddha. Each of the ten powers of Buddha Tathagatas. And in each power discovering innumerable meanings of what? For example, innumerable meanings of the knowledge, of what is so and what is not so. Innumerable meanings.

[28:05]

So, I'm alive, I seem to be alive, and I'm available, if any of you want to discuss the Ten Powers of Buddha, if you want to contemplate the Buddha's knowledge of what is so and not so, you can come and talk to me about it. Not too many people avail themselves of that invitation. but I'm still letting you know. If you want to talk about it, okay. It says there's innumerable meanings. You should contemplate these and you should investigate them and you should ask about them, the sutra says, for your information. You may or may not want to pick up that teaching. Okay. Then having heard, heard what? Heard about these ten powers of Buddha, One should arouse the mind of great kindness and compassion.

[29:11]

Even if you haven't heard about these ten powers, even if you hadn't, at the beginning of this talk, you were encouraged, I hope, to arouse great kindness and great compassion. Studying these ten hopefully will make you even more wholehearted in arousing great kindness and compassion. You may be able to see how Buddhist knowledge depends on arousing great kindness and compassion. I find that to be the case. So arouse the mind of great kindness and great compassion. Maha Maitri, Mahometta, Mahakaruna. And observe all sentient beings without abandoning them. Stay with them.

[30:18]

Eyes of compassion. Observe sentient beings assembling an ocean of blessing beyond measure. This contemplation of sentient beings with compassion and kindness creates an ocean of blessing in this world of suffering. Like a blessing ocean to mix with the suffering ocean. A blessing ocean to meet the suffering ocean. So again, having heard about these ten powers of the Tathagata, arouse them, excuse me, having heard about them, arousing the mind of great compassion. Number two, observe sentient beings. Number three, reflect on the teachings, the bodhisattva teachings, reflect on the teachings unceasingly.

[31:21]

That's kind of hard, unceasingly, but that's what it says. Unceasingly contemplate these teachings. And then Number four, unceasingly reflect on the teachings, and number four is carry out superlative deeds without seeking reward. And may I say, thank you so much because you have been performing superlative deeds in this temple, for this temple, in this community, for this community. I really feel grateful to all you do for this community, for this temple. Your deeds are superlative. Not better than something else, but just really great. Thank you so much. And by the way, if you continue these superlative deeds, which you might,

[32:30]

do so without seeking any reward. So bodhisattvas do these great things, but they're watching out to not slip into getting something from it. They will, but they're not seeking reward. They will be rewarded, but they are vigilant about not seeking it. And then comprehend that all objects are like dreams, like reflections, like illusions, like echoes, like magical creations. This is almost exactly what's in the end of the Diamond Sutra. or in that sutra, the bodhisattvas are encouraged to do this meditation.

[33:35]

So we're devoted to these beings, we feel great compassion for them, and also they're like dreams, they're like illusions, they're like echoes, they're like echoes of ourself, they're reflections of ourself, they're reflections of each other that cannot be apprehended. We're devoted to some beings that cannot be apprehended. This is the fifth contemplation at this point. And then it says, if the bodhisattvas can unite with these contemplations, can interact in their daily life with these contemplations, like daily life, giving gifts without seeking anything, if they can interact with these teachings, integrate them and unite with them, then they will not entertain dualistic understanding of things.

[34:48]

Then they will not fall into Buddhas separate from cruel people. Buddhas separate from suffering beings. They won't fall into that story that they're separate. They won't make Buddhas better than brutes. They won't make brutes better than Buddhas. They won't make Buddhas better than killers. They won't make killers better. They will not get into any duality there by doing these practices. And then when you do not entertain the duality of all things, then all the Buddhist teachings will appear right before you. And then their first...

[35:56]

and then their first arousing of the mind of bodhi, a mind of awakening, will immediately attain unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment. The Sikta sang, the initial arousing of the mind of awakening, the mind aspiring to Buddhahood for the welfare of the word the first time and the final awakening Buddhahood, that they're not separate, they're the same. And we need to do these practices in order to realize that that's true. It's not just a statement. And then they will know that their mind's nature they will know that all things They will know that all things, they will remember that all things are their mind's nature.

[37:03]

And they will perfect the perfect body of wisdom. And all this they will do without relying on anybody else. That's chapter 16. simplifying that section on all those questions about those 10 things. And I have been proposing that many of our stories, perhaps all of our stories that we cherish of our tradition in India, China, Korea, Japan, and even in America, all these stories about our ancestors All the Zen stories are kind of practical renditions of these bodhisattva practices. And last time I told the story about the sixth ancestor Hui Nung and how he awoke, he was born by hearing the Diamond Sutra and then how he listened to the Nirvana Sutra and then

[38:21]

understood it and taught people about it. And then how he went to the fifth ancestor and met the fifth ancestor and how they interacted in a way. And then that led the fifth ancestor to invite him to come to his room and learn more about the Diamond Sutra. So the Sutra, the Diamond Sutra, was woven into the story of the sixth ancestor. But for me, the core of this story, which I told you last time, is where the sixth ancestor is in the rice-pounding room. And the fifth ancestor sent this unordained, this lay worker, who came to the monastery, he sent this lay worker to the rice-pounding room.

[39:26]

And did I show you the picture of me in the rice-pounding room? Did I show you that picture last time? So maybe at work meeting I'll show you the picture. So some of us went to the Fifth Ancestor's Temple about 25 years ago. And it's a wonderful temple. it kind of embodies the story of Hui Nung, because he went to that temple, met the teacher, and the teacher really appreciated him. And to protect him, he sent him to work in the rice-pounding area. So he went there, and I went there too. And there's a picture of me standing next to the mortar where, supposedly, the sixth ancestor, 1,300 years ago, was grinding the rice to express boni sattva practice.

[40:33]

So there he is, long ago, pounding rice, and the fifth ancestor comes into the rice pounding area. I don't know if you've ever been there before. because he's a busy person, but anyway, he went into the rice pounding area to visit this worker, Huynong. And he says to Huynong, is the rice sifted? And Huynong says, It's sifted, but it's not yet white. It's sifted, but it's not yet white. And then the ancestor, who happened to be carrying a staff, maybe he needed it to walk, he struck the mortar with his staff three times.

[41:42]

And Huay Nung took the sieve and shook it three times. Shush, shush, shush. So I brought that story up last time as an example of enacting this sutra in our daily life. Letting somebody ask us, is the rice sifted? Is the rice sifted? Yes. So then he goes to the teacher's room and learns more about the Diamond Sitra that night and receives the Dharma robe and the bowl. And in a way, he's not yet qualified to wear the robe. He hasn't been ordained yet. He hasn't done the Bodhisattva ordination. But still, he's given the ancestor's robe and the ancestor's bowl. And then the ancestor says, you should leave now and go hide, otherwise people will hurt you.

[42:58]

You're not yet mature enough to deal with what I just gave you. And he does, and he goes and hides for 16 years. And then he comes out in the open and gets ordained and puts the robe on. That's one of our Zen stories. About what? about pure practice. And then, here's another story about pure bodhisattva practice. And guess who it's about? Right. It's another story about Huenong. Don't want to make things too difficult for you to remember. But it's another story. So now Huenong has, it's more than 16 years later, he has come out of the open, he became ordained, and put the teacher's robe on, and giving teachings on the precepts, which are also teachings on the Diamond Sutra, which are also teachings on the Flower Adornment Scripture.

[44:12]

So he's teaching, and people are coming to practice with him, and one of the people is coming, his name is Huyrong. And the Huairong comes and meets the ancestor, just like the ancestor went to meet the ancestor. The fifth met, no, the sixth met the fifth. Now the seventh is meeting the sixth. So the ancestor says to Huairong, what is it that thus comes? Or another way to put it is, what is the Tathagata? Because Tathagata means thus comes. What is it that just came?

[45:16]

What is the Buddha? And Huai Rang said, To say that it's this, in other words, to say that it's a thing, this is a great meaning we're having here, to say that this meaning is it, misses the point, doesn't hit the mark. So then the ancestor says, does that mean there's no practice? and realization. So he's saying, what is the Buddha? And the student says, to say it's this misses the point of the practice. And then so the teacher says, does that mean there's no practice? No awakening?

[46:25]

I just can't believe how appropriate the story is to this chapter. This story is about the purity of bodhisattva practice. Teacher says, well, if you can't say this is the practice, does that mean there's no practice? You're not going to say what the Buddha is. You're not going to say what the practice is. And to say that the Buddha is this or that misses the point. Does that mean there's no practice? And the student says, I don't say there's no practice in awakening. I just say that it cannot be defiled. Brackets. By saying it's this. And then the ancestor says, this undefiled practice is what all Buddhas... take care of and transmit.

[47:30]

Have no doubt. It seemed like he didn't have any doubt anyway. The fact that he could say this to the teacher who says, what's the Buddha? And he tells the teacher to say, it's this, misses the point. But he did say it, and the teacher says, again, checked out. Does that mean there's no practice? If you can't say... Being here today is the practice. Does that mean there's no practice? If you can't say being here is the practice, does that mean you're not here today? No. It just means your being here today really cannot be defiled. It's vast emptiness. That's the practice. And that's the story, the Zen story about the Bodhisattva practice. pure, undesignatable Bodhisattva practice. Now, someone said to me today, this world is the world of love.

[48:48]

Somebody else said, this world is not the world of hate, but it looks like it is. This world is the world of love. But it maybe doesn't look like it. But that's what the Buddha sees. The Buddha sees the world of love. And when people do the practice, that will be revealed. And that will be good. And some people have been patiently waiting for me to call on them. Yes, Homa? Would you go get the little container that has hearing aids in it?

[50:35]

It's right next to my seat. It's a little compact, a little container. It's kind of black, kind of dark, charcoal. Yeah. Yeah. That comes from a confused mind. That desire you talked about. It comes from a confused mind. violating the precepts comes from not understanding what is the case.

[51:39]

Not understanding that things are unattainable and non-dual. We don't understand that. We're at risk of being out of accord with the bodhisattva way. It's really the truth of our life and yet if we grasp something as being the truth of our life we magically become out of accord. So then we need to do some more attuning and these are some practices to attune with the reality. practices, a mind of compassion for all beings.

[52:42]

Contemplating all things are like illusions, reflections, dew drops, phantoms. echoes of reality. Thank you for your superlative deeds, which you have given without seeking reward.

[53:59]

Yes? Well, you say happiness. I come right back and I say form. So let's say that I stepped forth to protect a person who is being hurt. Yeah. Subject to violence. Am I defending or protecting a dream and echo of phantom and illusion? Yes. Phantoms, illusions are beings. Beings are phantoms and illusions. If you're only going to protect things that are not phantoms and illusions, that would not be good. So, if you act from not understanding, trying to protect beings, that will undermine your protection practice.

[55:15]

That will undermine the practice? Yeah. You'll be less... on protecting these beings who are actually like illusions. They're constantly changing. I'm not just devoted to solid things because there aren't such things. Everything is emptiness. I'm devoted to empty beings. I'm not devoted to substantial beings because there are none like that, which means I'm devoted to everybody. But I don't have to then in my devotion say, everybody's the way I think they are. If I do, that's going to undermine my devotion. So if I can stay with the emptiness of the beings I'm devoted to, I will be more consistent and stable in my devotion. Me too.

[56:21]

I aspire to be devoted to all beings and I find that remembering that I don't know who they are promotes my devotion. If I'm devoted to a being and I get stuck in how they seem to me, It doesn't kill my wish, but it undermines the realization of my devotion, my wish. Cha-Ying? Yeah, you're consistently... trying, and also you're consistently trying, even though the trying is different all the time. You're consistently trying to practice, and every moment is different.

[57:29]

And even the practices, everything's changing. But in a way, your aspiration sounds the same. I aspire to protect all living beings. And the best protection would be to help them become free, to help them wake up. In the meantime, any other kind of protection I also want to give. Water, a place to sit, shelter, food. I want to be devoted by practicing generosity. I want to give them gifts, but I want to give them without expecting reward because otherwise I'm not teaching them I'm not demonstrating what they need to learn. But how that looks is not the way it looks. It's the fact that I'm offering it without expectation of reward. I'm joyfully giving it to protect them without expecting that they get protected.

[58:35]

I tried to protect it and they still fell down. I tried to help them, but they still slipped. And I'm sorry they slipped, but I don't feel discouraged that I didn't get what I was trying, what I didn't get anything. I feel great that I tried to help them as a gift. And I accept how it worked, and now I try again. That consistency. Find something that you can do right now, not later. You nodded your head. That's what you offered. Did that come from, was that a gift? Yes, it was. And if you thought it was, did you give that without expecting anything? But she didn't look like, she didn't even think that it was. You look like you didn't even think it was a gift when you nodded your head.

[59:38]

Yeah. I saw you give a gift, but you didn't look like, Oh, I'm not giving you a gift, old man. But you were. But sometimes it's nice when you're giving gifts if you don't even think that they are, so then you won't slip into trying to get something. Yes. If you're taking care of yourself by practicing generosity towards yourself, you're demonstrating the bodhisattva practice in the world, people can see it.

[60:46]

They can feel it and they change. Dogen says, living beings are difficult to transform. You start by transforming them by practicing giving. When you practice giving, beings are transformed. When they see it, sometimes they don't see it, they aren't conscious, but then later they realize, oh, yeah. So you being generous towards your own body and mind puts this blessing of the practice of bodhisattva giving in the world for people to observe and maybe give it a try. And if they're not ready, you still showed it. You gave the gift but you weren't trying to get them to notice it and they didn't. You planted a seed and it didn't sprout and you weren't trying to get it to sprout. You hope it does but To act, you weren't trying to get it. So yes, please take care of every aspect of your experience.

[61:55]

And that will end by practicing this Bodhisattva way. And that will be a beacon in the world. Thank you for doing the parking guidance. And for everybody's help. Thank you for helping him do the parking. Thank you for having a car. I have a car. I saw it. Was there Darren? Anybody else that I didn't see? Yes, Darren. Well, when you said that I thought that sometimes in a home you have a parent or an elder sibling

[63:30]

who is violent towards somebody in the family, and they have the belief that that violence was for their good. That's kind of like their religion, the religion of doing good things for the people in the family in the form of violence. So if somebody sees something and they're mean to it, and I guess they kind of try to justify it. So the religious violence is kind of like that. The religion doesn't say be violent, but the people are violent, and then they use religion as a justification, just like the parents say, I'm here for your good, and I decide what's good for you, and even that's violent, for me to decide for you. But it's like in the home. We don't usually call that a religion, but it's the same thing. Did you want to comment, Linda? I just want to comment on what you said.

[64:32]

When people say how can religions perpetrate violence, it's very troubling. They seem to assume that religion is something that is or should be inherently pure and good. But religion, excuse me, I'm just like talking because I've studied and taught about religion. is just like government or like a corporation. It's just a big umbrella term. So it's not only that people think that it's worth somebody's good that they're doing something bad. It's also just raw power and acting out just like everything else. Religion isn't something inherently good. something that's been called a religion, like Buddhism, because we see something shining there. Could I just ask you one other thing?

[65:41]

I'm sneaky. That's what you think. I look around this room and I see like a personal Everybody with all their distinct characteristics, which I could describe, the type of smile that I'm seeing here, this shirt with an end, so many distinct details about each person. So would it be correct to say that it's not that distinct living beings don't exist, but it's just that They can't be grasped. We don't really say that they don't exist or that they do exist. That's not our job. Buddhism is not really to say this exists and doesn't exist. Did you get that? Did you get it? The Buddha doesn't teach that this exists and does not exist.

[66:47]

That's not the Buddha's teaching. Matter of fact, the Buddha says, in the world, generally speaking, People talk about existence and non-existence. I found a middle way. That's a sutra. So the Buddha doesn't say things exist or do not exist, the Buddha says. Generally, that's what people are into. I found a middle way, free of those. It doesn't mean that the Buddha doesn't see people talking about existence and non-existence. It's that the Buddha doesn't get addicted to either. The Buddha teaches the middle way. Would you say the same about real and unreal? Okay, I'll be quiet again. The Buddha teaches a middle way where there's peace and happiness and freedom, but that middle way is very subtle because it doesn't push anything away. We know it doesn't hold on to anything, it also doesn't push anything away.

[67:48]

And this middle way, we could say somebody comes and the teacher says to the student, what's the middle way? And the student says, to say it's this misses the point. Oh, boy. But we're interested in this. We're interested in freedom. When we hear the word, sometimes we feel like, yes. We're interested in peace. But to grab it, is antithetical to it. And where this last of the ten powers is to know cutting off the habitual energy. The habitual energy is to project on things that they exist the way they appear and to grab it. That's our habitual energy. So it is possible, being held out that I aspire to the state where I don't any longer hold to grasping how things appear in my mind.

[69:00]

But that's my habitual way. That's where my energy usually goes. Yes, Linda? I was just thinking that the answer to this question really lies in what you've been talking about in the story. But it's a thing. Religion is a thing. It's something. I'm something. Therefore... Yeah. And that's our habitual energy. And the Buddha says a little bit about where that comes from, you know, but I think now we have biological science which tells us even more about why human and other animals have evolved to have this habit project substance onto things, it has survival advantage. Those who don't do it, it's harder for them to murder.

[70:03]

And the murderers are our ancestors. They're the ones who grabbed stuff and killed. And they won out. So we inherit this body which has this projection on things. And now we're trying to become kind to this deluded body without trying to get rid of all deluded bodies and deluded thoughts, like things are this way. But we can protect without even knowing what protect is. We can protect. Oh, you said project. Yeah. And we can protect if we know that we're projecting, and to sort of confess and repent that I'm projecting, and I confess and repent that I'm projecting so I can protect. Or not even so I can protect, but so that protection can happen while admitting projection.

[71:12]

And saying, I'm sorry for the projection so I can do the, so the projection, so the protection can be alive. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get into why Those aren't the practice. They're not the practice because the practice isn't one of those things. But the practice also doesn't, the practice respects all those things which are just things. But the practice isn't a thing. It's a non-thing that relates to all the things in a way that liberates all things from being things and lets them be the whole universe.

[72:19]

which is what they already are. But we have to do this wonderful work of liberation from habitual way of seeing things. Part of it is to acknowledge that I think it's a thing, that I view it as a thing. I see all these things, I think they're things. Well, the things are not the practice, but the practice relates to the things. And realizing that these things are not the practice is part of the practice. And realizing my idea of practice is not the practice is in accord with the practice. Okay. Well, that was a lot. We did a whole chapter. It's a really good practice on, it's a really good chapter on purifying practice about what pure practice is, about how to be free of any ideas of what it is and still be totally devoted to it.

[73:34]

Again, like being totally devoted to a person and giving up all your ideas of them or giving up all your ideas of them for the sake of being devoted to them. Because if I hold on to my ideas of beings, that creates Burnout. That outflows. That leads me to give up. I'll give up in my devotion if I cling to what I think beings are. And that usually doesn't happen all of a sudden. It usually happens slowly making energy. I often use an example, if you're going to see one person, if you're going to talk into one person, and you're trying to get something from the conversation, you may not notice how that's enervating, how your energy is leaking.

[74:40]

But if you see 200, you'll notice that you're totally flat. So that's one advantage of seeing a lot of beings, is you notice that this practice of grasping what they are and grasping what the practice is, is leaking energy. Okay, well thank you so much for your superlative deeds.

[75:13]

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