We hold our emotions and feelings inside, or even if we let them out, we hold our experience. By that holding we come to be possessed, not by the experiences, but by the holding of the experience. And the experience becomes like, sort of like an address of the holding. We may feel held by the experience, but really it's the holding of the experience that becomes slaved by our sense of holding things, enslaved and possessed. On the other hand, letting things out, not in a sense of reacting to these things, but letting them out into awareness, then by that letting out, we are liberated, or could say,

[01:08]

liberated by the letting out of this material, and also liberated from the material. So again, people usually think that they can hold this stuff in and control it, but actually that turns out to be controlled by that technique, and vice versa, to let this stuff go, liberates you. The other side of that is that, last night I was talking to you partly in the sense of talking to people who think that they are people, individual people, and that you can do things on your own, and that's speaking to people in the realm of karma, and in the realm of karma, then I would say, well, go ahead and do this thing called bring this information out to look at, but again, as you bring the material out to look at, you realize that it really wasn't you that brought it out, but if you don't bring it out, you can't see that it wasn't you that brought it out, and you think that if you did bring

[02:13]

it out, it would be you that was bringing it out, and you can keep kidding yourself that way until you thoroughly do bring the material out, then you can see that that's actually not so, this idea that you can bring it out, or you can hold it back. So that's another dimension of the same process, but partly I'm just telling you that because the language of encouraging you to bring the material out sounds like I'm actually thinking that you can do that, but I don't think you can do that, I'm just talking to you in terms of which you think you can do things, but I don't really think that's so, but to the extent that we feel that way, I say, okay, then do that, to the extent that you think you can do something, well do that, and then again you will see that it's not really so you did that or that you can do that, but I think that it's hard to see that truth unless

[03:15]

you watch yourself go through the falsehood, as you enact this false way of seeing in life, you get to see the other side, which is inseparable from the falsehood. Like I mentioned this morning, the horse arrives before the donkey leaves, and actually the arrival of the horse is the understanding of the donkey. Okay, so that's my proposal to you, so what is it, anything? Well, is that to say there's knowingly and willingly transgressing? Yes. She's referring to a famous story, well actually it's a not so famous story, it's a story that's

[04:17]

associated with it, a famous story, the famous story is, does a dog have Buddha nature? And Jao Zhou said, no, and then the next story is, does a dog have Buddha nature? And Jao Zhou said, yes, when he said yes, the monk said, well, how come Buddha nature comes into such a skinner bag? And Jao Zhou said, because it knowingly and willingly transgresses, Buddha nature knowingly and willingly transgresses. Before I get into commenting on that poem, which I'm tempted to do now, I'll put that on hold for a little while and get more responses from this proposal that I made, a wonderful proposal I made, which the people who came late didn't hear.

[05:21]

So what exactly is going on, are you doing it or are you not doing it? It seems like it's both. Well, in the conventional world of subject and object, where you're you and I'm me and we're separate, in that world we think that we can do things. So in that world, where you think you can do something, then in that world bring this material out as though you could do that, rather than keep it back as though you could do that. Okay? Even in the world of karma, if you hold this stuff back, you will be possessed by it. And in the world of karma, if you bring it out, you will be liberated by it. But not only will you be liberated by it, but you'll also be liberated by the idea that you brought it up. In the meantime, before you understand that, then use your karmic ability, use your karmic consciousness, use the consciousness which thinks it can do things on its own, use it to bring material out rather than hold things back. And then you have a chance to see that it was an illusion that you had control in the

[06:30]

first place, and it's an illusion that you can do things by yourself. Make sense? It didn't look like it did. Yeah, so let's say hypothetically that I go through this process and I see that what I've done isn't really what I'm doing. Yes. So does that mean that when I get to that point, I will realize that I never really had a choice anyway and it was just luck of the draw that I happened to finally accomplish that in this life? Yeah. Luck of the draw means it was a result of your evolution, your spiritual evolution. I don't really have control over it. You don't have control over your spiritual evolution, no. You don't have control over it. So are you talking about yourself in terms of like, I hear what you say today, and that encourages me to bring these things out, but in reality it's just this interaction of whatever,

[07:30]

hearing you, my will, my whatever, all these things coming together, and that's what does it. Is that what you're saying? Rather than there's a controller that decides I'm going to bring this out today. Is that what you're saying? That's not what I'm saying, but I agree with you. That's what you said. How is it different? You said it, I didn't. That's the only difference. Well, I agree with you. But I think, you know, probably there's this thing hanging in the air when I answered, what's your name? Jason. When I answered Jason, saying that, you know, people think, well, if I'm not in control of my spiritual evolution, then, well, gee whiz, isn't that kind of too bad? That's the thing about spiritual evolution, it's not something, the thing of, it's a, what do you call it, it's a lower grade of spiritual attainment to want to be in control

[08:32]

of your spiritual evolution. So you're actually evolving higher when you move into a realm where you're not in control, but that's also kind of like, well, but then how can I be sure it's going to work out for my own welfare? To move into the level where you're not so sure of how it's going to work out for your own welfare, that's a higher state. Because you're already liberated from self-concern. But then people say, yeah, but still, what's going to happen to me? You know? And guess what? It's going to work out just fine. The only problem, oh, you see, the thing is what you've got working for you, folks, is your enlightened nature, you see. If it weren't for that, you just would be sort of like a, I don't know what you want to call it, you would be just this kind of like thing getting bounced around by cause and effect. But it turns out that what you are is this enlightened being getting tossed about by cause and effect. And all you've got to do is stop trying to control the evolution of your great nature.

[09:33]

But since you don't trust your great nature, you want to be in control and make sure it works out all right for you. But that's contradictory to your nature, which is not worried about anything. It just wants to help other people. But not by controlling them, but by showing them they also don't have to be in control. Okay? Now are you happy? So what is the motivation for us then down here on the bottom of the totem pole? Like what, you know? What's the motivation? What's the motivation? You tell me. What's the motivation? What is it? What's motivating you to attain complete, perfect enlightenment? What is it? Life sucks. I said sucks or sex? Life sucks sex. And another thing that motivates you is that you know that suffering is actually not the way.

[10:40]

And that... Do you want to sit up here? And you have a nature which is guiding you towards happiness. That's your real motivation. But the thing that gets us started is compassion. It's not just life sucks, but that you feel compassion for yourself and others in that pain. So compassion is really the thing that motivates the whole thing. And then compassion can give rise to the aspiration to help everybody. Not just sympathizing and sharing their suffering. But actually noticing that there would be some kind of way that they could be helped. Then once you got that under your belt, then basically step off the top of the hundred foot pole. Which means stop trying to control and tell the truth.

[11:44]

That's all. We're not talking about making up any kind of fancy story. Just spill the beans. That's all. Even though, again, that's not something you're in control of. That's the bean spilling thing. If you try to control it, you won't spill them as nicely as if you just spilled them. Anything else? Yes? I've heard you say it a couple of times and I've read it in every book I've picked up on Zen. This idea that our real nature, it seems to be ridiculous that we should have anything other than our real nature that we operate on. Right. You're directing us back to something that we already have. Yeah. I don't understand the point. The point is just so you'll be happy. No, I'm sorry.

[12:44]

It seems that we're going a certain way without really being aware of it. And you're trying to say, stop putting the sign in the circle. Yeah, right. Enjoy your real nature, which includes the fact that your real nature gets put to an extreme test by the human being. So human beings have this great test of their nature called human delusion. Okay? It's like this real nature gets sent into this really difficult challenge, which then deepens it and causes it to evolve into not a more real nature, but a more fully developed. It causes it to keep evolving. Like I said, our nature is that we have to maintain this self. It's our ultimate nature that we keep transcending our self. But we also get the challenge of having... Yeah, you transcend yourself. Okay, now transcend yourself and also take care of this self too.

[13:47]

Let's see you transcend yourself while you take care of other selves. That's the, you know... And actually it's possible to do that. How is that possible? How is it possible? By being kind and mindful and patient and generous and concentrated and enthusiastic and conscientious and vigilant. And, you know, having listened to the teaching and ask questions about it until you understand it and put it into effect with joy. And all that stuff, that's how it's possible. Now, I didn't say it was easy. That's why you have to be patient and enthusiastic and all that stuff, because it's really hard to develop your skill fully. Yes?

[14:47]

Did you say, if you give up control, what? Because your nature is you love all beings and you naturally want to do things. But now it comes from not kind of trying to control, but out of love and wisdom. So you see what needs to be done and you do it like that. And also the reason why you can see what needs to be done is because everything comes and informs you of your job. Every moment you're sitting there, you're not sitting, every moment you get your assignment. The whole universe delivers your function and says, OK, now go help that person. OK, that's enough, thank you. Now go help this person. That's enough, thank you. Now you be helped and receive the help, thank you. So you become like this self-realizing function at your body and mind.

[15:57]

So you become extremely active. I mean, you're like extremely active and not moving at all. It's generating all kinds of warmth and intelligence and compassion. And whenever it's appropriate, your arms and legs move and your mouth wags. But it's no longer you doing anything, it's function coming through you. You don't have to know things anymore and not know things anymore and you're right and wrong. You're beyond all that and you're just a servant of all beings, which is what everybody is already. That's our nature. And that's what can start functioning when you let go of control. But to let go of control is another control trip, isn't really letting go. So the way you let go is by watching yourself control until you see the nonsense of it and it naturally drops off. So that's why we call Zazen is to drop off body and mind. It means drop off control. But people who drop off control are people that have studied the control a long time and seen how it causes trouble.

[17:02]

So to the extent that you're still involved in control, watch it. The more you watch it, the more you realize it's not doing anybody any good. The controlling part is not doing anybody good. You are wonderful, but your controlling thing is extra and antithetical to the control. It's antithetical to happiness. But I can say that, and you can't really understand it as fully, but you'll watch this yourself and verify what I'm saying on yourself. So you can believe me enough to check it out. If you just believe me and don't check it out, you won't be able to let it flow through you anyway. If you do check it out, you'll see it yourself. It also says that in all the Zen books. When the controlling part realizes that you want to get rid of it, for me, when that part of me senses that I want this part not to be there, it doesn't just drop off. It clings.

[18:08]

The part that wants nothing not to be there anymore is the controlling part, right? It's not about that. I don't think about that way. Yes? I realized when we started talking about this, that when you say we're not in control of our feelings, we're not in control of ourselves, that I do agree with that immediately as I hear it. But also each time that I've heard it, that something in me kind of winces. There's a problem. And it seems to me, sitting here listening to you, that one of my immediate fears is that that means since I'm not in control, that the opposite is true, that I'm being controlled. If that's true, I'm under the control of. I was thinking that maybe that was just an unfortunate association in my mind.

[19:14]

It's not a matter of control, that neither am I in control nor am I under control. Well, it's actually not an unfortunate association because it actually shows, the way I see it is, that feeling that you're going to be in control is you become in control when you think you can control. That is being controlled. You are controlled by your belief that you can control. That controls you. But if you don't believe that you can be controlled, I mean, if you don't believe that you can control, you can't be controlled. Just like somebody said, if you know that you cannot kill anything, that you will never kill anything, you will never be afraid of being killed. But if you think you can kill something, you will be at least a little bit afraid of being killed. It doesn't mean you won't be killed, necessarily. It just means you won't be afraid if you know you can't.

[20:16]

Similarly, if you don't think you can control, you won't be afraid of being controlled and you will not be controlled. It's not that we're controlled, it's that we are, what do you call it, gifted. We are gifted with our function, not controlled. Every moment we're given what we can do, we're not controlled into doing it. We're given a function, which you could say then controls us, but it's not that things control us, they give us life. But if you think, once you have life, that you can control things, then it looks like that stuff is controlling you, but actually it's giving you a chance to live. If you don't think you can control, or in other words, you've watched how it is that you control, and you've seen that you don't control, then you realize you're not controlled, but actually you're just being supported. So it's not an unfortunate association, it's very apropos of the pivot there.

[21:20]

If you're still on the side of thinking about control, you just turn it one more and then you feel controlled. Turn it back of not thinking you can control, giving up control, then you see that you can't be controlled. One way is misery, the other is liberation. But it's the same pivot, same material. Usually that's the way it is. Turn it this way and it's misery, turn it that way and it's liberation. It's the same material, it's not like two different things, they're right there together. They fit together very nicely. So all this material that's coming up, all these thoughts, they're all good in providing you with material. So that's why we willingly and knowingly transgress, because we come into a situation of transgression, which we can use for liberation. That's why enlightened Buddha nature comes into a skin bag through transgression, so we can use the skin bag to liberate. Because we need skin bags, because skin bags have faces.

[22:21]

People need faces. Buddha needs to come into a face to liberate human beings. So Buddha comes into skin bags and gets the face, with a little, you know, big smile, blink and stuff like that. So that's, you know, in the Zen story, the first transmission from Shakyamuni Buddha is Mahakasyapa held up a flower and Buddha blinked at him. That's how he used a little winking technique to wake up, transmit the Dharma. But Buddha had to come into a skin bag to get eyes, to wake up. A lot of trouble, but, you know, it's worth it. Considering how much love the Buddha has, he's willing to go through all that, you know, embryonic hassle and delivery, forceps. Okay. Yes. What's your name? My name?

[23:22]

Yeah. Neil. Neil, yes. Just the word transgression. Yes. I'm not certain that it's used here. Well, it's referring to that story, right? Yes. So, in other words, in order to be born, you have to transgress. And transgression is, you have to kind of like prefer life over death a little bit to get born. You have a lot of equilibrium and detachment. You can't get born. You have to kind of like temporarily kind of like be biased. So what is transgression? A balanced point of view. You transgress the balanced point of view to, or you transgress equanimity or something to that. You transgress the balanced point of view to that. Keep going. You almost got it. You're almost born here. You're almost. He's trying to transgress his understanding this.

[24:25]

Keep going. You just about got it. Okay. Well, anyway, you transgress the realm of equanimity to just be in, or of non-being to be in this. No. You transgress equanimity vis-a-vis being a non-being in order to come into being. So the Bodhisattva is present in a state of non, the Bodhisattva, you know, what we call the Bodhisattva spirit, is not incarnated at a particular point. But in order to benefit beings, the Bodhisattva, who is really, you know, has no preference of being over non-being, temporarily turns and inclines towards being and sex. And then he gets a skin bag. Well, actually, you know, just a zygote. Comes in there like a...

[25:27]

to a zygote, a little creature there. But you have to, like, lean towards that in order to make this zygote come alive. Then you got a Bodhisattva in an egg, in a fertilized egg. And then they get to come out in the world, and everything is moving forward in the Buddha's work. I think I understand it as the transgression of impartiality. Yeah. And then, after you get a body, then you can go back to being impartial again. If you can remember. Yeah. And sometimes, the lower echelons of Bodhisattvas get a little shook up by the embryological phase and, you know, birth and, you know, all that milk in the face and kindergarten and stuff like that. Then they need to remember in their teens, the true spirit of Zazen. And then they, you know, don't prefer enlightenment over delusion and stuff like that.

[26:31]

And then they're back on the job for another round of fun, teaching and sharing Dharma. Is that your proposal, sort of, that we should do whatever we feel like doing? My proposal is you always do, do whatever you feel like doing and never do anything but. That's not my proposal. Before though, that's a new proposal that you just drew out of me. Before that, my proposal was you should admit that you do whatever you feel like doing. And by admitting that, you'll bring that out in front of you. You get to see that you're always, you know, doing whatever you. You always make a decision about what you do. You never not don't do what you want to do. It's impossible. Okay. But this is a new thing I'm saying, which I didn't point out before, which thank you for bringing that out. Is that you always do what you want to do, but most people don't admit it.

[27:33]

That's what makes it seem like you're holding stuff back. Like we say, oh, I'm not doing that. And then we even like hide what we say we're not doing because we know that that's not going to make sense if you think about it for a little while. You know, if you think about it, you cannot not do this thing called not doing something. That's called doing what you want as not doing something. Like I do not want to tell you certain things today. Okay. I do not want to kill you today. So I'm not doing that. That's what I want to do. Not kill you. All right. I do however. Huh? What? Don't you understand what you're doing is what you want to do.

[28:40]

You're not killing anybody now either. Right. Don't you understand that? Because that's what you want to do. It's not killing anything right now. You see that? That's what you want to do. It's not killing anybody right now. Right. That's what you want to do. And you have to answer my question. That's what you want to do. You see that? That's what you want to do. What I'm doing right now is what I want to do. Right. Yeah. And that's the way it always is. And that's the way people don't usually understand that it is. Right. And I'm saying understand that that's the way it is. That's called bringing it out. It's admitting that you are doing what you want to do. When you don't admit that it's what you want to do, then you think, well, I'm holding back doing what I want to do. But you're deciding to hold back whatever that was. That's your decision. Nobody else is making that decision. So this is to just admit honestly that everybody's doing what they want all the time. Yes.

[29:42]

What if you find yourself doing something that you don't want to? Like acting, you know, acting for that kind of condition, compulsively. You don't like it, but you do want to do it because you're doing it. In other words, what counts is what you do, not what you say you want to do. I don't like doing this, you know. Da, da, da, da, da. But you're doing it. You do do what you want to do. That's what I'm saying. Why don't you admit it? Rather than do this stuff and say, I didn't really want to do that. That's what I'm saying. But sometimes we do have the subjective experience of feeling obsessed or compelled or something like that. Again, feeling out of control is the other side of thinking that you can control. That's what I'm saying. When you feel out of control, you're doing it, but you say, but somebody's controlling me. The reason why you think somebody's controlling me is because you think you can control. Admit that you think you can control. Admit it, if so.

[30:44]

Most people do. Probably you do too. If you admit that you think you can control things, then you also will notice. People don't usually have to admit that they feel controlled. But you feel controlled because you think you can control. They go together. I can control. I can be controlled. But when you can't control, you cannot be controlled. It's just inconceivable. You just won't be in that world anymore. Then you'll be in the world of where you at least, although you may not think anymore you can control, you'll be still in the world for a little while longer of thinking you can do something on your own. And then you start taking responsibility for what you do. What I'm saying to you is your responsibility is to take responsibility for what you do. That's another way to say what I'm saying. Go ahead. I'll just personalize this because this came up from your talk. I think something that came up for me was realizing that I don't trust my Buddha nature.

[31:52]

And that when I find myself feeling out of control, not that I'm being controlled by someone else, but that there's this dark side of me that's expressing itself against my will. It's the experience that, combined with conditioning over the years, etc., makes me feel as though that's my true nature and not, in fact, this Buddha nature that you're speaking of. And so I try to suppress it or to limit my scope of activity so it won't come out. So that's what I'm talking about in terms of that experience of being out of control or doing something that you might not want to do. Not feeling that this is something I want to do, just watching myself do it. I know that people think that way. Thank you for saying it again. But I want you to know that I've just been talking about people think that way.

[32:54]

You just said this is a nice example of the way people think. What I'm saying is, even though you think that way, please take responsibility for the way you just told us that you think. You just told us the way you think about this dark side expressing itself, you don't know about the Buddha nature, etc. That's the way you think, what you just have told us about. That is something you did. You just did that. What did you just do? You just thought some things and you spoke them. You told us what you were thinking so I could hear what you're thinking. You did those things. That's your karma. And you think you did that on your own. You don't think somebody controls you into saying what you just said and making those observations, do you? No. Not right now you don't. And because you don't think so, you can understand me better when I say take responsibility for what you just did. And what you just did is you just thought a certain way.

[33:55]

And you think you could do that by yourself. You don't understand that all sentient beings in ten directions helped you do that. You don't see it that way. Do you? No. No, you don't. I mean, I did, but not at any meaningful level. No, you don't. Okay. So therefore, take responsibility for your thinking that way. That means take responsibility for your karma. Alright? That means you take responsibility for your karma means you notice the way you think. If you notice the way you think like you just did, you notice what you just did, you will notice that that is what you wanted to do. You wanted to see it the way you just saw it. Not only did you take responsibility, but you realized you wanted to. That was what you decided to do with your life is to think that way. If you can take responsibility for it in that way, that's what I mean by bringing it out. Okay? That's bringing it out. She was telling a story, you know, but also she did something in the process of telling that story.

[35:01]

You chose that story. That was your business. Okay? That's the way you think. If you admit that, you'll be liberated from that way of thinking. Once you're liberated from that way of thinking, you can still think that way. Like this dark nature, blah, blah, blah. Okay? Perfectly good story. But you realize it's just a story that you thought of. Nothing more and not any less either. When does it go away? And when you see that, your Buddha nature will come. I don't know what verb to use, but it's going to come forward and take over everything and express itself completely. Because the only thing that's stopping it is your irresponsibility for what you think, for your thinking that you can do things by yourself. Your Buddha nature is your nature which is all beings created in a person who can think like that. You know, who can think this wonderful thing of all things creating all of us who think we can do things by ourselves.

[36:07]

This is the wonderful thing. If you take responsibility for the miraculous delusion machine that we are, then you'll be liberated from the delusions and your Buddha nature will come forward. That's why you don't have to hold on to these delusions, because as soon as you let go of them, they'll still keep coming flooding in every moment. They'll never stop. That's not the problem. You don't have to stop, you don't have to start, and they're going to keep coming. But to realize that they're just delusions, then your Buddha nature manifests. Boom! And you're free of your own thinking. And therefore you can prove you're free of it by continuing to think that way. And show that you can go right ahead and be an ordinary person, but not be caught by being an ordinary person, because you know you are an ordinary person, and you don't try to evade responsibility for it. Okay? That's what I'm talking about. That's what it means to bring this stuff forward. Take responsibility for being a deluded person. And don't try to be any better than that. And don't try to be any... Don't try to be irresponsible about it. Don't try to blame anybody else for it, or get anybody else to take responsibility.

[37:09]

And also don't take responsibility for other people's delusion either. But encourage them to take responsibility for themselves by you doing that with yourself. Then you'll become free. And then you'll be very active, but your activity will come from your Buddha nature, which is understanding that you're deluded. In this particular case, if we were rocks, we would not be deluded. Then our Buddha nature, a rock, comes forward from being a rock. Rocks aren't deluded beings, we are. The rocks don't have... What? They're the deluded rocks. No. Rocks don't have karmic consciousness. Rocks don't think, Oh, I can sit here on the hill here, and look down at Tassamara, all by myself. The mountain's not helping me, the rivers aren't helping me, the sky isn't helping me, the Buddhists down there aren't helping me. Rocks don't think like that. We do, though. We think we can sit up on the hill

[38:12]

and do it all by ourselves, look down at Tassamara, walk up and down the hill. We think like that. Well, fine. Just be honest and take responsibility for that's the way you think. Then you'll be free. Of course, that's hard to do. Very hard. Because it's so painful to think that way. Because when you start thinking that way, you get into controlling your thoughts, thinking that you didn't mean to do this, feeling controlled. It's terrible. Well, if you can accept responsibility, even though it's difficult, then you can sit there in the middle of that twisting, turning, turbulent, changeable, crunching existence, and feel at home, and relaxed. And then you can see. But it is necessary to be able to live in a human existence in order to wake up. That's your job. 40 seconds. Okay. 30 seconds to go.

[39:14]

Anything else? Can you give an example of taking responsibility for somebody else's delusions? Can I give an example of that? Yeah. Well, like, for example, somebody else does something bad and you feel responsible for it. Or somebody else that does something good and you feel responsible for it. So you feel, you know, you feel close to something. Like, for example, your children. Could you imagine that? Like your children does something bad and you feel like, oh my God, you feel like you should take responsibility for it. This is called codependence. The other side is independence. Okay. Somebody else does something and you say, I'm not going to take responsibility for that. That's going too far too. Just don't mention it. When you see somebody else doing something, you just take responsibility for yourself. You're busy taking responsibility for yourself. You don't have time to say, that's not my problem. So either, you know, either taking responsibility for it

[40:16]

or making some statement of, you know, some waiver against taking responsibility for it. It's too much. You're busy taking responsibility for this person and that encourages other people to do the same. Because there's something really compelling about somebody who's compelled by their own destiny and knows it and admits it. Don't you think so? I hope you think so. Because that's what I'm trying to do. All right. So, go do it.

[40:50]

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