This is kind of… In thinking about how to study these, teaching the Four Noble Truths, I spent the first two talks in the Zen-do, just laying down the usual practice of upright sitting in our Soto Zen tradition, and I feel that that fundamental practice of our school is the excellent way

[01:10]

to receive the revelation of these teachings directly in terms of your own experience and your own conceptualizations. And again, tonight I would like to emphasize or start with the practice that I would hope could make this teaching of the Buddha direct and experiential, or based on experience anyway. The Buddha didn't have the teaching of the Four Noble Truths taught to him by some Buddhist teacher, he discovered these Four Noble Truths in the process of his meditation, and in some

[02:21]

sense someone might ask, well, maybe it's better not to study the Four Noble Truths because then we'll start maybe looking for the Four Noble Truths or thinking in terms of the teaching of the Four Noble Truths rather than working with what's happening with us moment by moment, and so I wouldn't want to get off and have the teaching of the Four Noble Truths be a distraction from your realizing the Four Noble Truths. I think, for me, it's more like a teaching about them would be helpful to you to interpret your own experience of it, and to have the historical precedent of the teaching to dialogue with your own experience, as hopefully your own experiences start to develop, not that you would look over to the scriptures as your primary mode of practice, but that you

[03:24]

work with the scriptures back and forth with your basic practice, and that they would help each other, that if your basic practice doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Four Noble Truths, then that's kind of a feedback to your practice. On the other hand, if you study the Four Noble Truths and don't bring it back to your practice, that's not the best way. So tonight, I'd like to suggest to you that the practice of being upright is one where we develop an unprejudiced posture, an unprejudiced

[04:31]

attitude in the middle of our experience, an unbiased, unsentimental posture in the world, so literally, an unbiased posture physically, but an unbiased heart, unbiased mind also, emotionally, intellectually, philosophically, religiously, politically, physically. In every dimension of our being, it's unprejudiced, unbiased, not leaning forward, backwards, right or left. It isn't that there aren't sentiments and biases and judgments and positions, it's

[05:37]

just that we don't lean into any of them. We may have preferences, but we don't lean into our preferences. We may have likes and dislikes, but we stay upright in the middle of our likes and dislikes, and that posture in the middle of all this is the entrance into the kind of awareness of the Buddhas, which we call the self-fulfilling Samadhi, and in that Samadhi, you see, you will see, right out of the book, you'll see four Noble Truths, they'll come pop up there to you. You might even see six Noble Truths, but gradually, you'll come in line and distill them down to four, or rather, your vision will come in line and you realize six isn't necessary. Although, as the Avatamsaka Sutra says, in the uncountable, incalculable myriads of world systems, each one has four quadrillion ways of talking about the four Noble Truths.

[06:42]

Still four Noble Truths, though. So, in particular, in terms of the stuff flying around us, I'd like to emphasize tonight what's called the outflows, and in Sanskrit, here goes, a new blackboard, in Sanskrit, asarapa, in Pali, asavas, means flood or flow, it can be flowing in or flowing out.

[07:57]

So, all around us, ordinary human beings have these outflows, and outflows are habitual, dispositional ways of relating to what happens. So we start out, in a sense, first of all, whatever we meet, whatever we subjectively experience, we have some kind of self-interest in there, and the interest over time becomes a prejudice or a disposition to respond to things in habitual ways, basically in two ways, towards in a way, which is like, dislike, greed, hate. So, the Buddha taught, well, I'm not saying the Buddha taught this, but generally speaking,

[09:10]

in the traditional Buddhism, there are four types of these outflows. So, I don't know if I just read it in the blackboard, anyway, I'll just say it in English. The first one is the outflow of desire, the second one is the outflow of becoming, the third one is the outflow of view, and the fourth is the outflow of ignorance or confusion. So, the outflow of desire is not just desire, but like an established, constant thirst, sort of ongoing, established thirst for pleasure, and going with that is a thirst or desire to

[10:12]

avoid displeasure. And generally speaking, again, what's pleasureful is what promotes us, and what's displeasureful is what demotes us or threatens us. Now, there's also thirsting for tastes and temperatures and stuff like that. That's part of it. But, in a sense, our constant thirst for the pleasant is not so much constantly in search for a pleasant taste. Personally, I don't go around constantly in search for a pleasant taste. If I brush my teeth, that's generally speaking good enough. Also, smell, I'm not constantly in search of a good smell, like when I was up there working in the fire pit there, and there's this funny smell out there around the compost

[11:19]

pit. I actually wasn't constantly in search for somehow to get away from that compost pile. It was really strong smelling, and of course, I saw that other people were even closer to it. Kern and Jeremy and Tracy were right up there. But anyway, maybe they were constantly in search of a different smell, but I wasn't. Even though it was obnoxious, I was not. And also, around where I was, it wouldn't smell real bad, but it would feel dusty and hot. I wasn't constantly in search to get away from that. I wasn't. I can get into that, but that's not constantly my thing. But the constant thing is what will promote you. What will make you a better... What's your real issue? Your issue isn't to be near the best smelling things. Your issue is to be the best Zen student or the best looking woman or the best cook. It's like stuff that really promotes yourself and makes you more likely to be something

[12:25]

real good. That's what we're striving for all the time. Every motion is to promote. What can we do to promote? It's self-interest, right? There's a thirst there that's fairly constant. Always looking out for, if I do this, how will that work? If I do that, how will that work? Always calculating in these terms. This is constant. The other stuff, you know, if it gets threatening, if the smell gets like, smells like, hey, this is poisonous, then it's different. That's not a constant thing. That's just situational. This is a big... This really moves us around, this kind of stuff. This is called the influence or being affected around desire. That outflow. That's around pretty much human beings all the time. Again, what to do there? You just... About that, you don't have a desire. You don't desire to have it or not have it.

[13:27]

You have no prejudice. You're unprejudiced. You just experience it uprightly. Then you cut off that outflow. Now, if you don't know what I just talked about, you should find out about that. Or you should tell me. Well, just, you know, you're nuts. Maybe you're that way, but I'm not. And then we can find out that maybe you're the only person in Tassajar that's not that way. And maybe there's six of you. Or maybe there's 50 of you and just one of me. Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. So if you don't know what I'm talking about, check it out. Find out what I'm talking about. If you do, then just be upright in the middle of such concerns. And then what you cause, you... The influence of that concern starts to weaken. And you can actually end that outflow.

[14:29]

First of all, you have to spot it. Then, once you spot it, then you meet it with this upright posture and work with it appropriately. Sometimes you should dance with it. Sometimes you should just say hello. Sometimes you should say... It depends on the situation, but anyway, the point is a dispassionate, unsentimental acknowledgement of this particular flood or outflow. Next one is the outflow of becoming, which is similar, but it's a constant yearning for self-aggrandizement. But it's not so much desire or hatred, but a kind of like a becoming kind of thing. You want to become greater or become lesser. You desire, you kind of... You want to become or de-become. You have a thirst for actually being something,

[15:31]

which is actually to be something is an aggrandizement. It's a conceit. It's too much. Or if that's not going to work, then get rid of it. So pride and self-contempt. It's the second one. Third one is a view. We're influenced by the view of existence and non-existence, but in extreme form of things ultimately really existing or actually not existing. Being and not being. These views. It's another... We're affected by that, that something exists or doesn't exist. And we're... So that also affects us. Again, with these last two, if you did again just be upright and dispassionate and unsentimental about your experience with these things, you end those outflows too. The last one is a little complicated.

[16:34]

It's called the outflow of... literally the outflow of ignorance. But maybe it'd be better to call it the outflow of confusion. It's going to sound like the previous one of view, but view is more like... the outflow around view is more like the outflow around ignorance. It's around a set philosophical position on something, which you... which we all have. We all have certain truth positions on certain phenomena. This one is a little like a view, but it's more like... emphasizing not so much the rigidity of the position or the fixedness philosophical positioning, but the pervertedness of some of our views.

[17:38]

And so actually this view is sometimes taught in terms of what are called the topsy-turvy views, upside-down views, or like the perverted views that we speak of in the Heart Sutra. They're called viparyasa in Sanskrit. Viparyasa, which means upside-down. And again there's four of these under this heading. And it has to do with identifying the impermanent with the permanent. That's the first one. To identify impermanent phenomena with the permanent. To see impermanent things as permanent.

[18:44]

Next is to see things which are not unsatisfactory. To identify them with what's unsatisfactory. You take things which are... The other way is easier maybe. You take what's unsatisfactory and you identify that with what's not unsatisfactory. A simpler way to put it is you equate the unsatisfactory with the satisfactory, but that isn't the way the Buddha put it. He said you equate the unsatisfactory with the not unsatisfactory. In other words, you have unsatisfactory things

[19:45]

and you think they're not unsatisfactory. It's a little bit different than saying they're satisfactory. Do you see the difference? Huh? You have something that's not unsatisfactory and you identify it as unsatisfactory. We have an unsatisfactory something and we think it's satisfactory. In other words, we don't look... To go the other way, let's see... It sounds like you took the reverse to start with. I think what most people... The usual thing is to confuse... We call the unsatisfactory satisfactory. We identify those two. We don't exactly call them, we identify them. But I thought it was interesting that the way the Buddha put it is confusing the not unsatisfactory with the unsatisfactory. That sounds like something that is not unsatisfactory but we think it's unsatisfactory and we identify it with the unsatisfactory, which sounds a little different to me.

[20:47]

It's not this way or that way, it's the identification. So it can go... It can go either way. It can go either way. But it's not... Usually the way I've heard it is is identifying or confusing the satisfactory with the unsatisfactory. Okay? But that isn't the way the Buddha put it. He said the not unsatisfactory with the unsatisfactory. There's no satisfactory in the equation. They're just not unsatisfactory. Not unsatisfactory is not the same as satisfactory. We do not know. There's not like some... There's not like some confusion of like there's a satisfactory over there and we're confusing the unsatisfactory with it. The satisfactory is not one of the... We can't confuse that with something. I mean, not right, but that's probably not well known.

[21:49]

The satisfactory is not out there to be confused with. The satisfactory is not like available to work with. All right? It's not one of those things we have on the table. Impermanence, you've got... You can work with impermanence. But impermanence also you can't work with. So, what is actually satisfactory in this thing is release from this situation. Is release from the situation of being entangled in these concerns. That's actually satisfactory. But the outflow that we're being confronted with, that we're being flooded with, is the confusion of things that aren't unsatisfactory with... And we do have such things with the satisfactory, with the unsatisfactory.

[22:50]

That's the confusion. The third one is confusing not-self with self. And then the fourth one is confusing the pleasant. We do have pleasant with the unpleasant. Confusing or identifying? Excuse me. Well, same thing. Right. To identify these things is confusion. They're not, strictly speaking, they can't be identified. But we do it anyway because we're confused. So, confusion and identification in this case is the same thing. This is the outflow of confusion. But you... We do have pleasant and unpleasant experiences. But we actually sometimes identify the two. Now, of course, there, practicing mindfulness of feelings will be very useful. Practicing mindfulness of feelings will help you clarify that. And then, also being upright, once you...

[23:51]

And when you start practicing mindfulness of feelings, noticing, not confusing them anymore, then to be upright in the middle of that. And then also to be upright in the recurrent confusion about that that keeps popping up. Recurrent and well-established confusion, because many things we do are based on that confusion, of unexamined confusion, of pleasant and unpleasant. Identity between those two. For example, we sometimes eat things which we think taste good, which don't taste good. They're unpleasant, and we identify them with pleasant. Because we're not mindful of the fact that they actually don't taste good, but we've confused that unpleasant taste with a pleasant taste. We do that. So, if you can be upright with that and practice mindfulness with it, you cut that one. You can cut these things, too. So, all these four main types, and then this one has four subtypes, by practicing this passionate mindfulness with these things,

[24:53]

there is a freedom from outflows, which is like a big-time deal. I mean, it's like nirvana. This is nirvana, to be like that. That's nirvana. You're free at that point. You're even free of trying to figure out what I'm talking about and seeing whether that might be true or not. You still might try to find out what I'm talking about and see whether it's true or not, but you can be free of it while you're doing that. Do you understand? Or you can be totally, like... What do you call it? You can be totally flooded by the project of trying to figure out what I was just talking about. Or leaking your energy in the process of it. But you can uprightly examine what I've just been talking about with no biases or sentiments about the activity.

[25:59]

And no self-interest there, either. Just natural inquiry into, first of all, is there any kind of, like, leaking reaction, response to what I just said? Any outflows come up in response to this teaching which you just heard? And this kind of presence of this kind of awareness is the awareness which realizes this unfabricated... unfabricated presence. And although it's unfabricated, it still can actually be interested in studying. It still can, like, read books and ask questions about Dharma without leaning into any of these outflows.

[27:04]

And a lot of people I have asked, you know, if you end these things, you know, would there be any interest in even studying anymore? Would you care about anything? Would you care about yourself anymore? The answer is you wouldn't care about yourself anymore in terms of, like, being self-concerned. No, you wouldn't. But you would have compassion for yourself as a suffering being to whatever extent you were suffering. You can still be compassionate even when you see things free of these outflows. And you can respond to that compassionate feeling spontaneously and wholeheartedly. And the way you might respond to that

[28:06]

is maybe by not doing anything. That might be, like, your compassionate response to your own suffering. But not doing anything also means you wouldn't necessarily remove yourself at all from the experience of your suffering. Could one still experience suffering in nirvana, in this situation where the outflows have been cut up, cut off? I would say yes. But one is free. The main kind of suffering one experiences in this state is called compassion. Your happiness is marred and dented by the suffering of the world. But that's not a problem

[29:08]

because you don't have any outflows in regard to that pain. So you very skillfully respond to it. In the 15th case of the Blue Cliff Record, it's the case where, I think, a monk asks... Maybe it's not that case. Does anybody have the Blue Cliff Record here? Anyway, it's Yun Man, right? Yun Man asks, ... Oh, it's the one upside-down statement. You know, topsy-turvy statement. In that one, there's a commentary where the commentator, whose name is Yuan Wu, he's the commentator of the Blue Cliff Record,

[30:10]

and he praises the compiler Cui Dong and the person in the case, Yun Man, as being people and they can hold hands with each other and they can take your hand and walk through birth and death with you. The commentator suggests that these people can do that. If you're going through birth and death, they'll take your hand and walk with you. If you ask, they'll do that, and also if you don't ask, they'll do that. They naturally join hands with all beings and walk through birth and death. This is their thing. And they do that in order to help people become free. But also they just do it before they can help people become free. That's the first thing they do. The commentator says, how can they do that?

[31:13]

How can they walk through birth and death? How can they go into the mud and the water for our sake and die with us and be born with us over and over? How can they do that? They can do it because they have ended all these points of leakage. And then, Dongshan says, if you want to tell, check out whether somebody has actually like, you know, genuinely gone beyond. You can check it out with these outflows. These outflows are a way of checking it out. But he has three. He consolidated the four down to three. And that's one of the ways you do check. If you want to check somebody, just throw them an outflow and see what they do. Do they bat it away?

[32:16]

Do they, you know, duck it? Do they gobble it up? How do they respond to the outflow? Do they handle it in a way that shows that they've actually, you know, cut it off? You know, the appropriate way might be to catch it and juggle it for a while and say, would you like to try it for a while? There are many ways to respond to these outflows. But the point is that they don't go in or out. You're free of them. So, Dongshan's five, three leaks are in that book. You can read them. His way of putting it is the outflow of emotion or feeling, the outflow of views, and the outflow of speech. Those three. Those are his three. Emotion, view, and speech.

[33:19]

So, he distilled these traditional four, including those four upside-down views, into these three. So, this is kind of like a koan. This is a commentary under the case, right, of upside-down view. But this is another koan of this guy's, of Dongshan's. Dongshan's giving you this koan, this case for you to study. And he says, you people should know these leakages in yourself. You should know them in yourself. If you're going to end them, you should know them in yourself. I guess I would say that it seems to me that this is not an optional assignment. That in order to, you know,

[34:24]

if you want to help people, in a thorough way, help them even if they go into death, to go with them to help them, and even if they're born, be born with them, if you really want to be able to really help people, this is not an optional assignment. You need to learn about these things in yourself. You don't need to learn about other people right away. First, in yourself. That's most important. If you can learn them in yourself, you can help other people learn about them. But in general speech, and once in a while, you might point out to somebody, but it's not really something, it's more like to help them get to see it in themselves. If you understand it yourself, you become free yourself, plus then you'll be more able to help other people see it. This is really something we need to do. Fortunately, most people have them available. They're actually quite nearby. Pretty much 24 hours a day, unless you're in some really deep, deep, deep sleep, or some really deep, deep, deep samadhi, but they're just sort of like waiting

[35:25]

until you come out. And it's like you haven't missed a beat, so don't worry, you won't miss anything. You don't have to go looking for them, but you do need to be able to spot them. If you can spot these and cut them off, then the Four Noble Truths will come back up to meet you. The Four Noble Truths are sitting right in the middle of these outflows, and as soon as they're not pushing around anymore, the Four Noble Truths become clear. This is exactly what the Buddha, if you look in the Buddhist stories, he said, Then I attained the knowledge of the end of the outflows, and then he sees the Four Noble Truths, and then he sees the pinnacle arising. And listen to this.

[36:27]

Hear that? That's suchness. And Deng Xiang gives a little commentary there, which you can read and memorize. And I think it's really interesting, the Chinese characters are really interesting in this case. Partly because one of the characters is in my name. This character is Qi, as in Zen Qi. And this character is in, when he's talking about what happens in these three kinds of, when Deng Xiang's talking about what happens in these three kinds of outflows, this character Qi appears in all three.

[37:33]

And Qi means opportunity. Energy. Working. Function. Activity. Process. Okay? So, when they use the Chinese character there, that character in some situation, the surrounding situation then colors what you plunk into the meaning of Qi. So like if you're talking about the functioning of mind, then Qi becomes intellect. If you're talking about emotions, Qi will become a feeling or emotion. If you're talking about language, Qi will be a linguistic thing. So it provides an opportunity or it points to the function of the situation. So, in the emotional situation, which sounds to be quite similar to

[38:38]

the first of the traditional ones and maybe the second, he says, you know, knowing, and again the word knowing, is that word, is that word Qi. The opportunity here in the emotional realm is when you know something, you always turn towards and against. So the Qi, in a situation of emotion, the Qi gets, it turns into knowing and whenever you're knowing, whenever the Qi is operating in the realm of knowing, you turn towards and against things. And because you're turning towards and against things, because things are always like something you avoid or go towards, you know, because you're like this, then your view gets prejudiced. In other words, because you turn towards and against, you can't see. You have a biased view.

[39:40]

Next one is the view, this sounds like the view one and the traditional view one. The intellect, okay, in this case this one, the Qi now, in terms of view, will be intellect. The intellect does not stir from its fixed position and that rigidity around positions, like this exists, doesn't exist and so on, that rigidity of the intellect not moving throws you all over the place. It says it throws you into a poisonous sea. So the first one, you're moving back and forth towards and away, you know, trying to aggrandize or whatever and you can't see straight. The other one,

[40:41]

you're not moving back and forth, you're holding rigidly to your view of the situation and then you get thrown for a loop. You know, you're like a dead, you're sitting duck and you just take and get thrown, right? In some ways worse. The other one, you're just, you know, kind of pleasantly confused and getting thrown all over the place and can't see straight and think it is straight and all that. This one, you get thrown into, because of that rigidity, you're like really getting knocked hard into a big turbulence. Of course, some people are even, there's maybe relative degrees of strength of holding. The harder you hold, the more the holding gets you. If you hold hard, you're pushed hard. The last one is very subtle, it's the one of language. And he says there that you embody the marvel but lose the fundamental. And the intellect, again, is key, the opportunity

[41:42]

confuses beginning and end. So that's one to think about. You can hang in, and you can read that in a book if you want to. The, you embody the marvel but lose the fundamental and you confuse beginning and end. Yeah, that's the outflow of the verb, around language, verbal outflow. So, I would guess here that you might, it might be okay to, you know, let your mind reflect on the fact that this one might possibly include all those four perverted views. That this might be the last one. That all these, all these identifications that we make might be

[42:46]

included under this one heading. So, with the aid of these, of this language, maybe you're, be more readily able to spot these outflows in yourself. And, if you can spot them, then you know how to, basically, you don't exactly know what to do, but you kind of know the basic posture with which to experience them, for starters. And then see what happens from there. Then do you lean into them or what? Some of you, I think, have had a little bit of experience of actually being upright in the middle of this stuff, at least for a little while, and have experienced a taste of freedom by being upright and unmoving and not leaning away or towards or anything these situations. And experience what, how that's freedom.

[43:48]

How that kind of presence is freedom. That's not the end of the story, though. But that's the, it's the beginning of the big story, which is now, at that point, you not only have, you know, been able to do the kind of, this is, another version, another name for this is selfless practice. Because when you practice this way, you've been able to, like, put aside your selfish concerns long enough to not, like, constantly orient towards this material in terms of what will benefit you. You just, you have to put that aside a little bit, at least for some period of time, in order to not mess with this stuff. And this selfless practice then can actually can help you become an actual change, change your position on the whole thing, of self. And then you can start seeing the Four Noble Truths independent, co-arising, in that situation. However,

[44:56]

you still can see suffering in this situation. It isn't like you don't see suffering. You still do. But, by being freed from these influences, you're also free to do the silly things. What does that lady say? You know, what's that term that lady says that's on the bumper sticker? Outrageous acts of kindness, or whatever. Random acts of kindness, and what's the other one? Senseless acts of beauty. Senseless acts of beauty, and anyway, and silly acts of compassion, you know, foolish acts of compassion. Whatever, you know, whatever will be an expression of your compassion can be, you're free to do it, because you're free of these influences. So, with that kind of basic approach, if you're working on that kind of basic

[45:59]

balanced posture in the middle of your suffering, then the Four Noble Truths, I think the study of them will not take you so much up into your head, or if it does go up into your head, that's okay, but also be someplace else at the same time, not just in your head. Even though some people have had some experience of this spotting the outflows and leaving them alone, and not getting influenced by them for a little while, they haven't been thoroughly enough convinced to not stick their head in them anymore. You know, some people have had, you know, a second, or a minute, or ten minutes, or I don't know what, of actually, like,

[47:01]

dropping this stuff and experiencing that freedom, but it wasn't strong enough yet for them to, like, be convinced that they should just never dabble in, you know, never be prejudiced towards this stuff again, like really finally just cut the outflows. Forever. Or, you know, no doubt that it would be a good thing to do. And, you know, also in the scriptures, when the Buddhist saw this, there's various translations of what he said when he saw the end of outflows, but I like this one. He says, future births have ended, the higher life has been lived, done is what has been done, done is what has, done is what has to be done, there is no more of this. So,

[48:02]

in other words, I'm not going to fool around with this stuff anymore. That's it. But this is like a real happy thing, you know. I'm so happy, now I'm sure I'm never going to fool with this stuff anymore. Which is similar to there's not a rebirth. Of course, unless it would help people, then I'd be happy to do it. I'd be happy to mess with this stuff if it would help anybody. Or, if I need to if I need to mess with this stuff in order to get a chance to practice more, I'll do it. You know, sometimes when I keep hearing this type of thing that comes out of it looks like it's just a decision.

[49:03]

Now I'm going to decide not to mess with it, and this is it. And, it doesn't quite work like I'm deciding, I'm not going to mess with my experience, and that's it. It's not a decision. I'm willing. It doesn't come just from my willing. No. It comes from your being convinced. And, like I said, you could have a major encouragement along in this way, like you could have, like I say, you know, a second of this, a second of this is a big encouragement. Just a flash of freedom from this stuff. It would have to be a flash where something was actually coming to give you an opportunity. It wouldn't be a flash where nothing was happening, but where a nice strong leak comes and it gets cut, just like that, that would be a big encouragement. If that happened, like then several of them, like one came and the next one is going to come very fast, because, you know, but like a minute of that would be a really big encouragement, but enough of that

[50:03]

so that you would be totally convinced. It wouldn't be that you then say, well, there's going to be no more of this, like that's a decision. That's the way you talk when the decision has been made. When you're convinced, you might talk that way, but it isn't that the decision hasn't been made and now I'm going to talk that way. Before the decision is made, we say, I vow to end all outflows. From what I understand and from what I've experienced, I vow to end all outflows. I've heard enough to make the vow. I'm convinced that it would be good to make the vow. I can't anymore say, there isn't going to be anymore. That's like when you receive the precepts, you say, I vow to keep practicing these precepts even after acquiring Buddhahood. But after achieving Buddhahood, it wouldn't be a vow anymore. You keep practicing, but it wouldn't be a vow. It would just be simply, this is what's going to happen from now on. This is the state of affairs.

[51:05]

It's not a will thing. It's just like saying, this is Tassajara, just like that. It's not a will thing. It's a community, you know, a community decision, right? We decide it's Tassajara. I didn't make it up, did I? No. So we say it's Tassajara. It's like that. It's not a will thing. But there is such a thing as being certain. And you're certain when you're convinced. And people have been convinced. The Buddha was convinced and he said that. And one more quote I want to tell you. And that is, when Tungshan was studying with, he went, he was traveling around, he went to visit Guishan. And he had a somewhat inconclusive meeting with Guishan. Inconclusive,

[52:06]

but very important. Because Guishan's meeting went and set up the next meeting with his teacher, Yunyan. But as he was leaving Guishan, he said, If, you know, if I see somebody, you know, because he never, when these guys left, when these masters left, their teachers, their various teachers, they never knew what was going to happen after they left. You know, you might get enlightened later as you're walking down the hill. And then you become the person's disciple, you know, retrospectively. That actually happened with his next teacher, right? Anyway, so he says, If somebody asked me about your teaching, what should I say? And Guishan said, Just don't tell anybody where I am. And he said, Do you have any instructions for me? And he said, Yeah. End all outflows. So then, Dongshan didn't do it right at the time.

[53:07]

It took him a little bit of time to do it, but then when he did, then he gave this teaching to us. But he found these things in himself. And the idea is anyway to end them. End them means that you're convinced that you're really not going to play with them anymore. And then that's it. You can end them in a given moment. When you don't mess with them in a given moment, that's an end in a moment. But you have to be convinced how wonderful that is to actually be able to say, Now they're done. And I think honestly speaking not too many of us can say that yet. But it's not kind of, Okay, say it. It's just more and more, I'm, you know, I'm really convinced. So the Buddha was convinced, not the person. The Buddha was convinced. And there's a Buddha available right near you that can be convinced. And then

[54:08]

she won't have to like willfully say that. But until she's ready to say that, maybe it won't be said. Maybe those words won't come from you for a little while. Maybe also maybe a part of me is absolutely convinced. Some other part that I don't quite know yet is not quite convinced. So I think in all of us there is like another part that is not quite convinced. And that's why we are not, that's why we're still practicing. There's one part that is still not convinced. Yeah. And when I heard you say that I thought, well, one way to read that is you can end some outflows but not others yet. Some you can recognize and once you recognize them you can stay present and not meddle with them. Others you haven't seen yet even really, you know. And therefore they're still pushing you around. Others you've seen but you still don't know

[55:09]

how to respond to. So you can say some part of ourselves but you can say some part of our skill. Our skill doesn't necessarily develop evenly in response to all of our all of our problems. Sometimes we get much better at one and then but, you know, let's go do the other one. And sometimes we get pretty good at one but we can't get better at this one until we get better at the other one. We get better at this one and this one gets better and they gradually come up like that. So this is the basic, you know, you can forget about everything I said but somehow then after you forget it you're going to remember something else. Something else is going to happen to you. In other words, you're going to have a day tomorrow, I guess, you know. The day is going to come to you and it's going to influence you. How are you going to respond to it? So I'm talking about how to respond to the, you know, the rest of your life. And be aware if there's any kind of outflows in your life,

[56:10]

be aware of them and you know, don't give up playing, give up, you know, your old games with them. I don't want to say give up playing with them because playing with them may be part of giving them up. I don't know. The point is that you're not biased, you're not leaning into the play. For some people not playing might be leaning backwards. For some other people playing might be leaning forward. For some people playing might be the perfect expression of being upright in response to this stuff. So you need to see what would be what would be recognizing the thing without indulging. Not get stuck. Not get stuck, right. Recognize without getting stuck. And getting stuck could manifest in various ways. Sometimes what one person would call getting stuck for another person would not be getting stuck. Depends on your background. Depends on your on your prejudices. For some people

[57:14]

to be homosexual would be you know, not getting stuck. For other people would be getting stuck. For some people being heterosexual is being stuck. For other people it would be not being stuck. Depends on the person what being stuck means. For me to be a woman is maybe not being stuck. But for some of you to be a woman might be being stuck. It's hard to say. But still there is a sense of what it's like to lean. There's a sense of that. You do have some sense of what it means to be balanced. You do have some sense of it. Mainly the sense you have of what it means to be balanced is that you're not balanced. You have a sense of being off balance. You have a sense of... That's why this word outflow is nice because... or flood because you experience them as energetic floods. Again this word ki means energy. So that

[58:16]

there's a flood of energy into the intellect or into the feelings of the flood in or a flood out. You're inflated or deflated. There's energetic consequences of these positions. You can feel that. Tassajar in some ways I find is a very good place in that regard. I don't know if it's the altitude or the people or the mountains but I find that I get overheated more easily here even when it's cold. In other words I sense outflows more here. Maybe not as much as I should but more anyway. Liz? I think I've heard this but still in the language I hear it's really tricky to hear saying it ends the outflow but then it sounds like the prescription

[59:19]

for practice or whatever but that's what's coming to mind. This is just being present and so what's ending or not ending I worry about that just be present and if they end they end. But I keep hearing the ability to end and cut. It sounds like that sounds like leaning to me it sounds like you're doing something. Yeah, right well it's not it's not doing anything it's just being balanced and present and upright. That's that will end them. And usually when these things happen we we have we have a leaning or a biased response to them that's they knock they push us around usually. And so when you feel that being pushed around you notice that and then also to be not even prejudiced against that would be being upright. So I like the I've used before and I like the image of the wind bell because the wind bell when the wind blows

[60:20]

and the wind bell the wind bell swings you know the wind first of all the wind bell hangs upright wind bells don't hang sideways they hang upright and they relate to gravity okay so they're upright but when things when things affect them they move when the wind blows they move so that they're flexible okay and when the effect's gone they swing back so this this uprightness and flexibility are part of the way you'll learn about this but if you study the situation like this the influence will gradually you know not be an influence anymore it won't be like you know the fact that you're affected by these things won't really bother you so it isn't that you stop the wind or you know you resist the wind you actually go with the wind according to what's appropriate and you notice how these different factors cause

[61:21]

increase and decrease of energy and by that by that intelligence you become free of these or they stop you know pushing you around you can stay present no matter what they're doing and the way you respond to these influences then becomes wisdom right in the middle of the situation there's this wisdom which is the understanding of the end of these influences but the way the wisdom is expressed will be in your response to the influence what used to be an influence is now a stimulus for the expression of wisdom so I mean basically you get pushed this way and you say freedom you get pushed that way and you say freedom but the freedom sounds differently because you know the way your little things work this way will sound a little bit differently than that way but basically the same message

[62:21]

no matter what happens to you you know freedom [...] whatever you know no matter it's always the same always the same sound always the same message namely I'm free of this this is this is something I'm not going to fight these are causes and conditions you know and then sometimes there's pain in the freedom sometimes there's pleasure in the freedom and then you start seeing the four noble truths so so if you keep if we start talking about the four noble truths it might be that you know there's plenty of study there it might be that things will get intellectual so you need to keep you need to keep the practice going in the midst of the study so it doesn't get too abstract and involving just part of your your being maybe occasionally we have to go back and reiterate the posture

[63:21]

so maybe the next time we can start actually studying the the first truth anything else tonight? yes yes I've always wondered about Guishan's response don't tell anyone where I am I wonder if that means you you know when Dongshan says somebody asks him about your teaching what shall I tell them? don't tell don't tell anyone where I am you can't tell anyone where I am you can't say what I teach you I think that's right in other words don't mix your outflows in with with your depiction of me when you talk about ending the outflow would it be correct to say that part of that is that giving up your concern for your personal survival?

[64:26]

yeah while the concern is still you know operating at its maximum level can you elaborate on that how it still operates? it still operates you know at a cellular genetic level you still you still feel your body still feels some kind of ripple or some kind of vibration at the prospect of drinking several gallons of other people's saliva well maybe I shouldn't say the prospect maybe I should say actually the actual tactile experience being brought to your your lips so there's still there's still that

[65:29]

but you're but you're you're free of it at some level but it hasn't you haven't been totally transformed I think the part of the theory of Buddhism is that you actually the being can actually be transformed physically eventually and there are practices which people have been exposed to to you know push them over the edge usually you need a very you know close relationship with some kind of teacher who knows you really well you know force you to do that that kind of physical thing to cause that kind of physical conversion but there can be freedom prior to that and where you're you're actually walking around most of the time pretty much free of self-concern at almost all the normal levels that it operates you can express yourself almost

[66:29]

you know very freely and so on but still this still the self-concern is still coming up generating these these outflows they're still knocking at the door and you're more or less saying no way I'm not going to play or whatever I shouldn't even say no way confidence that you're not going to like get caught up in them again and yet they're still going to be generated out of your body at some point they don't even get generated out of the body anymore do you live very long after that? hmm? do you live very long after that? well that's a serious question I'm not laughing a lot of other people well let's find out who they are, shall we? the Buddha the Buddha you know

[67:29]

supposedly didn't get reborn you know he worked that all out so he didn't come back so one one could live quite a while after that but the point is that there's no you wouldn't need to get reborn anymore at the time of after death you wouldn't be drawn into you know even in even your karmic continuum wouldn't slip into the the outflows so that would be like in essence the Buddha was an arhat and finished his work but Bodhisattvas even highly developed Bodhisattvas sometimes get involved in that you know take on that concern so they're bought so they ground themselves into kind of physicality again and take up that genetic imperative in order to be reborn so they can continue work so yes

[68:33]

you can live after that you can live and be very active in practice and relating to people and teaching and have a you know very full active life after that yes Is karma then assumed in this? Assumed outside of this? That's something that has to be well wouldn't that be karma doesn't karma express itself as an outflow? let's see how would I put that karma the you know the universe of a description here

[69:33]

is is like two different look views of a sentient being right once from the karmic point of view this one's more from a kind of meditative point of view this outflow thing it's not so much in terms of action but in terms of like influences and responses not so much like influence and then like killing or stealing but influence and like like or dislike ok this is more like this kind of teaching is more like about the meditative experience now if you switch over to karma acts of karma will be based on these outflows right and those acts strongly develop these outflows ok and then the acts based on these outflows which then reinforce these outflows those acts also create a whole world these outflows themselves do not we do not we do not pin on these outflows credit for creating the world

[70:35]

ok these outflows have developed in the world karma gets credit for creating the world so action is you know the discussion of action is a separate discussion and that has a lot to do with cause and effect and creating the creation of the world how we meditate on karma is a different meditation than the meditation on outflows ok you have to meditate on karma also in order to do the meditation on outflows if you don't meditate on karma you won't be able to meditate on outflows outflows are a little bit more subtle meditation meditation on karma means to be aware of your karma means to be aware of how you think in terms of subject and object and all that but they're different kinds of awareness mindfulness of this kind of thing and mindfulness of karma go nicely together but they're somewhat different concerns I don't know if I answered your question

[71:37]

karma in the genes I don't think exactly karma is in the genes so much I think the self concern is that the karma is more like input output it's more like programmatic organization of the whole system whereas this is like the basic motivation and direction of the situation the basic concern and if you look at the pattern of how these concerns resolve among themselves and that becomes the prototype for action but action then you see is a little more gross than this action then has this gross effects of creating world whereas these things are more related to more subtle things

[72:42]

about disturbing or clarifying your vision of what's happening karma is not about clarifying so much your vision karma is based on this of your vision being already confused it's an extrapolation of delusion this is more like addressing the workings of delusion and the psycho energetic disturbances created around illusion and how to orient yourself in such a space generally speaking the four noble truths do not dawn on a person in the midst of meditation on karma that wasn't the Buddha wasn't meditating on his karma when he had vision of the four noble truths and I think that it makes sense that you won't be having these insights into the four noble truths the highest wisdom will not dawn on you while you're meditating on the gross level of karmic action but you can't skip over that level

[73:42]

of meditation on your karma otherwise your karma will grossly interfere with your meditation on more subtle matters so meditation on karma I haven't been addressing because we're telling the four noble truths you know four noble truths is a basic teaching but it addresses highest wisdom there's also wisdom about meditation on karma also leads to wisdom about karma but it's a grosser level okay it's a more summary level of the situation rather than getting down to these subtleties of how do you respond to these influences of your perceptions okay but I'm happy to fly over to the karmic level because of course you need to take care of that too but fortunately for you if you follow the schedule you've already taken care of that yes what yeah like

[74:45]

when the bell rings do you go or not that kind of thing how do you use your orioke you know positioning your body as a karmic act you know I'm doing this you know how do you do that and are you aware that you think you did that that kind of thing so just mindfulness of your activity all day and understanding that that's karmic if you think that you're doing that this is meditation on karma so we need to do that too in order to like take up residence in the actor and then study how the actor then is influenced by various dispositions and outflows so the grosser work needs to be done but in fact as I said if you actually if you do the practice here it happens almost spontaneously and if it doesn't we have things like you know bells being hit 15 minutes early and bells being hit when it's supposed to be a Han and stuff like that that kind of thing happens or people planting you know various things in walls

[75:45]

instead of on the ground and stuff like that people not showing back to you and things like that you know there's various various ways that we have of bringing our attention to the fact that we're not watching our karma then I hope you're doing that and then by centering yourself in the middle of that awareness and using these outflows as a way to find your true balance then you're going to actually be able to see the actual form of the truth business this is like you know assuming that we're going to follow the same course as Buddha right just go right through the sutra the way he did that's what I'm talking about here and he did a lot of karma before he got to that point right he tried a lot of stuff big time he did lots of heavy karma lots of heavy karmic spiritual practice he tried before he got down to this

[76:45]

practice this practice of studying and becoming overcoming or becoming free of developing the appropriate relationship with you know ending the outflows means developing a proper relationship with them if you have a proper relationship with the outflows you see the four noble truths but developing proper relationship with such dynamic entities in our life is of course you know takes total total effort but total effort just for one moment it's just for one moment so try it just for one moment that's all you got to do one moment one moment of Buddha go back and then see if you want to do another another one enough for tonight and so we have two Dharma events this week coming up scheduled one on the 11th and

[77:46]

one on the 13th so you know there's various kinds of Dharma events we can have we can have discussion groups classes Dharma talks in the Zen Do Choson etc those are the more common ones I just mentioned but if you wanted to add in square dancing or something but those are so between those choices of discussion groups Dharma talk Choson and class I think I'd appreciate some feedback whatever is okay with me so some feedback would be would be appreciated I don't know what's a good way to do it should one way to do it is you can vote for you can vote for each one and then we

[78:46]

can see if everybody's in favor of all of them or you know or one's more popular than the other that's one way then you don't have to exclude anything except by not raising your hand want to do it that way so how many people want the discussions these next two meetings

[79:05]

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