So I want to describe a picture of how I'm drawing a picture, and I was thinking about how I'm presenting these Four Noble Truths to you, and in the classes I got the image of the way you, the way I learned a little bit about how to paint a thangka, to paint the, you know, like a picture of a Buddha. So there's, actually the way I learned it was you can break up the surface you're writing on into different sections, vertically and horizontally, and the head is a certain, fits

[01:00]

into a certain quadrant, a certain size, and you just kind of like draw a circle in this, a certain shape, kind of like a oval thing inside of that thing, that's the size of the head, and the torso fits into a certain thing, you make it kind of like a triangle, the legs and so on, so you can fit the basic shapes into the, this kind of grid that they give you, and then you can modify it and soften the edges a little bit, you get the basic shape of the Buddha that way, and then you, so then you just draw in those outlines, and then you go over it again, in a little more detail, the whole thing, and you go over the whole thing again in more detail, and gradually looking that way, by several layers of detail, you can actually paint a very nice picture of the Buddha, it's just like one of those regular, you know, traditional tankas, you can do it that way, but the main point is that you, you do the outline first, and then you go into the next level of detail, and there's

[02:03]

indications of how much detail to go through as you go through each time, rather than doing the head first, and then the arms, or something like that, and then I thought about the Zen way of, you know, the Zen way of doing paintings, which are not usually like that so much, particularly they're kind of like what we think of as, you know, the prototypic Zen style of writing, which is just oftentimes, you know, like one stroke, right? With no different levels of detail, you know, one time, and that's it, and what you write there is basically not really the point, and the point is all the negative space around it, what, you know, what you do is not really the

[03:08]

painting, the painting is sort of what happens after, you know, in relationship to what you do, so you draw a circle, or whatever, and then all the subtlety, and so on, starts to gradually come out as you meditate on what you did, or what is there, and so I thought, you know, my talks, my Dharma talks were more like just a one-stroke kind of thing, I wasn't really necessarily going into different levels of detail, or going over the general outline and filling in, more like, just more like, this is it, and then this is it, but then what's all around that, kind of thing, so I'm presenting these teachings in these two different ways, in a way, one way is, you know, outline filling in details, the other way is just presenting something, but then understanding that that's it, and that's it in terms of presentation, but what's all around that, and I'm doing both

[04:14]

ways, so you can maybe see that two different ways of presenting this teaching, and in fact, I am saying that I'm going over the Four Noble Truths, no, I'm not going like, I'm not intending in the classes necessarily to go completely thoroughly into the First Noble Truths, but go over the whole thing, and then maybe go over again and again, whereas in our Zazen practice, it's more like, you know, the whole teaching is like one time, and then again, one time, and again, one time, and all of it's contained in that, but not articulated, but implied, or inferred, or implied, or implied and inferred, referred, this kind of thing, so these are two kind of different ways of expressing oneself, and of practicing in a way.

[05:22]

Also, I wanted to say that the Four Noble Truths are kind of like an abstract of Buddha's upright sitting, a wonderful abstract, you know, one of the greatest abstracts that has ever been written on any kind of anything, that this wonderful, wonderful practice and realization could be expressed in this fourfold simple way, that the whole thing could be reduced to these Four Truths, and it's a kind of reduction, it's a reduction, but it's reduction which includes what's being reduced. Reduction that leaves things out is not really a reduction, it's, I think sometimes called reductionistic, as a negative thing, that you're reducing but leaving

[06:29]

something out. The Four Noble Truths include everything, actually, but still, it is an incredible reduction, not incredible, a credible reduction, an extremely wonderful thing that he was able to reduce his Zazen practice to these Four Truths. And then, these Four Truths, he then puffed them up again and gave all his discourses, all the sutras, come back out of the Four Noble Truths. So the vastness of the practice realization of the Buddha comes down to these four, and then all the discourses of the Buddha come back out of the Four, but also they come from the original practice realization, but in some sense they pulse down to the Four and then back up

[07:30]

into the discourses. So, in a sense, the Four Noble Truths are this abstract of Buddha's practice realization, and all of his discourses are like a footnote, just a little footnote to his practice realization. For example, the Second Noble Truth of Origination, all the teachings of dependent co-arising come out of that. There are so many wonderful sutras that are about dependent co-arising. That's really the Second Truth being now unfolded, so you can get into the details of that. But no matter how much he unfolded it, it never could be unfolded completely, except through direct realization. And again, please notice that I'm saying practice realization of the Buddha, because for the Buddha practice realization are identical, because the Buddha's

[08:35]

practice is selfless, and therefore practice realization are the same for the Buddha. The Buddha's practice realization is inconceivable, and although it's inconceivable, it can talk, it can walk. But when he spoke, the expressions that came from him, when he just expressed his practice realization, because they were coming from an inconceivable place, he didn't originally necessarily or always translate, re-translate his words into conceivable form. So then that's why he taught the Four Noble Truths, because they are conceivable and rational and graspable for us to get a foothold. Once we have a foothold, you know, with the authentic

[09:56]

presentation of his teaching, then we can start working that foothold, you know, moving on that foothold, sitting on that foothold, walking on that foothold, talking on that foothold, more and more actively until finally we lose the foothold, which we eventually have to give up, because he didn't have a foothold himself. He just gave us a foothold. His realization doesn't need a foothold. If you need a foothold, it's not practice realization, it's not liberation, but to get started you have to stand some place, get people to stand some place with the Buddha and then start moving. You step into the inconceivable realm of Dharma from some conceivable realm, most of us. So a conceivable realm is that, as

[10:59]

I told you, the First and Second Noble Truths are two names for the same situation. The situation is clinging to our life, clinging to this opportunity, not trusting this opportunity, thinking we have to control it, or that we can control it. And if we look at the opportunity, it can be discriminated into vast complexities, so to try to grasp and control that complexity is the situation which is the First and Second Noble Truth, trying to grasp this extremely

[12:00]

complex dynamic situation, which you can experience in all kinds of all the varieties that you discriminate. Everything you discriminate is that field. You can also simplify the discrimination in terms of five aggregates. So that's the way the Buddha put it originally, is to grab those five aggregates, which means to grab that complexity, is suffering. That's the First Truth. Second Truth is that this suffering originates. But what is the actuality of the situation in which the suffering originates? Same situation, grasping this life. That is the origination, right there. So when you look at the results of the grasping, it's the First Truth. When you look at the grasping as a condition, that's the Second Truth. How is this grasping a condition? That's the Second Truth. How is this grasping ... what's the

[13:03]

result of this grasping? That's the First Truth. It's the same situation. So you can see there, the First and Second Truth turn on each other, they pivot on each other. So again, I quote that verse appreciating the third case of the Book of Serenity. In the subtle round mouth of the pivot, the spiritual work turns. There's a pivot there between the First and Second Truth. It's one situation, right? The situation is clinging. The situation is you don't trust your life. You don't trust it. You think it's dangerous. It is dangerous, that's right, but your response to the danger is to try to get it under control. Right? Don't you do that? Get it under control, plan it, you know, deliberate it, make sure it's okay,

[14:09]

and then they give it a little room, see how it goes, pull it back, pat it on the head, whatever, you know, this is like the program, right? This is suffering. But also, this is the cause of suffering. There's a pivot there between the condition for suffering, I said cause, I took that cause, this is the condition for suffering, this is the result of that condition. Same thing, same situation. There's a pivot there. If you can see the pivot, that's where the spiritual work turns, watching that pivot. If you can see the result, good. Then look at the result. You look at the result, you'll notice the conditions right nearby, because the result's connected, the result hooks into the pivot. The pivot is in the middle of the situation. It's the place where the condition and the result turn on each other. You can't have a condition without a result, that's not a condition. You can't have a result without

[15:10]

a condition, that's not a result. They're pivoting on each other all the time, but usually it's hard to see one on the other. I mean, it's hard to see both at the same time, but you can see one and looking at one, watch it, and if you're patient and quiet, it'll flip to the other. You watch the other, it'll flip to the other. When you start settling into the pivot where they turn, that's where the spiritual life is, in that pivot. It's not like looking at one or the other, but you have to look at one or the other under most circumstances, but if you stay with one, it'll pivot to the other. You get a feeling for the pivot. And then it says, in the subtle round mouth of the pivot, the spiritual work, this is that same character, in the subtle round mouth of the pivot, the spiritual opportunity turns. And again, as we pointed out, it is suffering in a sense, is when you try to control the opportunity,

[16:13]

you try to control the working, okay? If you watch how controlling the working is a condition, if you see how controlling this working is a condition, and then see how that condition turns into the result, and then watch the result, and see how it depends on the condition, back and forth, you watch how everything pivots on this point, then that's where the spiritual work will turn, right there on that opportunity. So this is to give you a foothold, okay? Foothold is suffering, or the other foothold is this koon. You probably have a sense of both, that you have a sense of this. Many people are able to say, basically,

[17:14]

I don't trust my life. I don't think I can actually just be present and let it, you know, be. People do not trust that. They've been punished for what life does in their neighborhood. People say, you're responsible for that, you did that, so, you know, rein it in. You're a good girl. You don't cry. You're a big boy. That didn't hurt you. Shut up. Reign that in. Don't let those tears run. Don't let that voice talk about that. All this stuff we learned, so now we're always trying to control, and deliberate, and plan, and calculate what to do with this opportunity. You can spot that, right? Okay, there's the condition for suffering. You watch that. You can see that. That's a foothold. That's a conceivable thing you can notice. Not only the experience, not only the experience of pain, pleasure, sadness, grief, anger, lust, blah, blah, blah. Not only that, but that you try to control this stuff.

[18:16]

You can see that. Or you can see the suffering. Those are footholds. Then you start watching it, and then in that observation, things start moving. And as they start moving, you start to enter into the inconceivable realm of liberation. But it's hard to stay with it, because if you stay with it, you start to loosen your grip on the controlling, which you're afraid to do, right? So again, go back to the case where this thing appears. What does Prajnapatara say? He said, this poor wayfarer, when breathing in, doesn't dwell in realms of body or mind. Literally, what it says is, I don't dwell in the five aggregates. He's sitting there in the middle of the five aggregates, just like us. But as he's breathing, he's not dwelling in the five aggregates. Not dwelling means, I'm not controlling. I'm not pushing, I'm not shoving. I'm just in the midst of

[19:24]

the five aggregates. I'm just going pop and poop, pop, pop. He's sitting there, upright, in the middle of the situation, not dwelling in it. Not running away from it, not jumping into it, not pushing it, not shoving it, not meddling, just there, present in the five aggregates. That's what he does, that's his practice. In that situation, with that attitude, you can see, you can observe this pivot. With that attitude, you have given up. That attitude gives up. They're trying to control the dwelling in the five aggregates. And then you can see this pivot, where the spiritual, the pivot where the first and second truth are pivoting is also the place where spiritual life lives. Same place. Liberation happens at the pivot between the first and second truth. Or the third truth arises in the pivot between the first and second. The cessation of the suffering comes out of the place where suffering and

[20:32]

this condition are pivoting, are dancing, are dependently co-arising. That's where the third truth comes out. But in order to be present there, you have to not be dwelling. If you're dwelling, then you're going to get dizzy. Even now listening to me, if you're dwelling, you're probably getting a little dizzy. If I turned up the juice, you know, and my language turned up to the juice of your normal daily life, you'd have to really stay present in order not to get thrown off by some typical force of your mind trying to get a hold of what I'm saying, or get a hold of this process. You can't, just as you don't try to get control of the five skandhas, you don't try to get control of the five skandhas

[21:32]

as they come to you in a form of instruction about how to meditate on the five skandhas. So when you meet each other throughout the day, every time you meet somebody, five skandhas comes up. Unpredictable five skandhas of meeting a person, very intense. How do you stay present with that and watch? How do you try to plan what your response should be? How do you present yourself to the person? When you meet a person, you're thinking, how do I present? Do I smile? Do I smile a lot or a little? Is this a time of day when we're allowed to smile? Should I look at the person or not? You know, if they look sad, will I offend them if I smile? What should I do? How should I control myself? What should I do with my cheeks? Should I salivate? Should I blink? Should I take my glasses off? Should I shake? What should I do? All the time figuring out, this is suffering. Meeting a person, you feel that suffering.

[22:33]

You feel that suffering. You maybe don't notice how much you're trying to control yourself if you feel the suffering, or you may notice how much you're trying to control yourself. That's good. If you notice, I'm trying to figure out how to present myself to this person. You feel that, and you'll notice, if you are trying to present yourself in some way, some favorable way usually, if you are concerned, or some way that favorable means that they won't hurt you, if you are doing that, if you are aware of doing that, then you'll notice, just to watch that for a while, and you won't be too long before you notice that this is uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to be concerned how to present yourself. Then you see, I'm controlling myself. I'm trying to grasp myself. I'm trying to present myself. I'm trying to coordinate myself. I'm trying to package myself, and that's suffering. Watch that. You stay present with that. You see, there it is. There's the pivot. Now I'm suffering. Now where's the suffering? Is the thing still there? Yeah, it's still there. So you go back to the other one. Is the controlling still there? Yeah, it's still there. Now, if the controlling should happen to

[23:35]

drop away, you'll notice, suffering drops away. And there you are, not being concerned with controlling, not trying to not control, just standing there in the middle of five aggregates looking at somebody. No suffering, no origination of suffering, no stopping, no path, and so on. But to have that moment where you let go and stop, you realize the not controlling and also the not suffering, you have to be present there. You have to be able to be in these five aggregates, and then the five aggregates that are suffering, and then the five aggregates which somebody's trying to control, and you have to be there in that mess. If you're willing to be there in the mess, and notice the pivot between the five aggregates, trying to control them, and the suffering. The five aggregates grasping them, and the suffering. The five aggregates grasping the suffering. Pretty soon, as you see the pivot more and more, the grasping and the suffering drop, and it's just five aggregates. That's Prajnaparamita. He didn't say there's no five aggregates.

[24:40]

He says, in the midst of breathing, I don't dwell in these five aggregates, therefore there's no suffering. I'm always doing that. He's always chanting that. He's always reciting that scripture. Don't dwell in the five aggregates, or not even don't, not dwelling in the five aggregates. And again, even if you're dwelling in the five aggregates, the second truth, dwelling in five aggregates, the condition for suffering, even if you are, you don't dwell in the five aggregates. You stay upright in the middle of dwelling in the five aggregates. You just observe, I'm dwelling in the five aggregates. Observing that you're dwelling in the five aggregates, observing, clearly observing that you don't trust your life, and you're trying to control yourself, and your presentation, and you're trying to get yourself away from the situation, or in the situation, or comfortable, all this stuff, to observe that, that is not dwelling in five aggregates, and that brings light into the situation, which is the condition for suffering.

[25:42]

So then you're there, okay? Now you're present in the condition for suffering. Then it turns. You see, you see the condition for suffering, you say, oh condition, there's suffering too. Not only do we have the condition for suffering, but it's working. It's successful, I'm miserable. Now you're, now you're present in the five aggregates, not dwelling, and observing the suffering of the five aggregates, which is a result of this condition, which is still operating. Nothing's changed really, except you're present, and so present that you don't dwell, even in, no matter what's going on. And then it turns again, and then it changes again, and then it's, and then the five aggregates change, and the pivot turns, and the five aggregates change, and the pivot turns, turning, turning, turning, change, and turn, change, and turn, stay present in that. Who trusts that? That's the World Army one, right? HWOs trust that.

[26:51]

Which is also the World Health Organization. This, this is a multi-dimensional pivot, okay? This is just one aspect of the pivot. The pivot pivots in this way between the first and second cause, it pivots between the third and the fourth, it between, pivots between the third and the first and the second pivoting on each other, it pivots between the fourth and the first and the second pivoting on each other. The path, the fourth truth, is to be present in the middle of the pivot I just described, and then that presence pivots between that situation and the practice. So all these things are pivoting on each other. And there's another pivot, there's another turn, okay? In, in the middle of, in the middle of the suffering is the condition for the suffering. Whenever there's a suffering, instead of,

[27:55]

another way to look, instead of saying there's a suffering and then, and then over here is, there's a condition, right in the middle of the suffering is the condition for the suffering. So you'd be present with the suffering and you'll see in the middle of the suffering, you'll see the condition for its arising. In the middle of the suffering, you'll see this clean, this solid self, it's right in the middle of suffering. There won't, there won't not be a solid self in the middle of the suffering. If you've got suffering, you've got a solid self in there. Now, if you look at the suffering and start looking for the solid self, that will obscure it. So again, that would be dwelling again in the five aggregates. That would be dwelling in the five aggregates in terms of the aggregate, of the fourth aggregate probably, called trying to find the solid self in the middle of the suffering. And be indulging yourself in that kind of greed. Just watch the suffering and the seed in the middle of it will pop up. You'll see it.

[29:06]

The seed for the arising. Then if you see the arising, if you see the seed for the arising, then you watch the seed. Not go look for watching the seed, you just be present, you'll see the seed and you'll see it arise sort of with the seed. And when you see the arising, then there's another pivot, because in the arising, inside the arising is the seed for the ceasing. As soon as you see, if you can watch, if you can watch, you can see the seed, the condition for the suffering, and then watch the suffering arise, feel the suffering arise in the experience of the arising, which you can experience the arising, in the middle of the arising is the seed for the ceasing. So now you first if you're watching the suffering, now you see the condition for the suffering, now you watch the arising of suffering, now watch the arising of the suffering. Just because it's arising, don't go look for the arising of suffering, but when you see the

[30:10]

arising of suffering, stay quiet, and right there in the arising is the ceasing. Another pivot. Right as you watch the arising, you see the ceasing. If you see the arising and don't pay attention to the arising, you will not see the ceasing. If you look away from the arising, you can't see the ceasing. If you pay attention to the arising, when it's arising, you will see the ceasing. Because whatever is arising contains the ceasing. The famous saying Buddha, whatever arises ceases. But another way to put it is, in the arising is the ceasing. But again, in order to watch this, you have to just, there has to be just the arising, that's, you have to give yourself entirely to, some part of you has to by just,

[31:14]

just be, there's a rising, and then there'll be just the ceasing. If I'm, if you're going, if I'm with the arising, I'm watching the arising, then you don't see, then you don't see clearly. You just have to be the arising. In the arising, there's a rising, and then in the ceasing, there will be the ceasing. It's another pivot. The pivot between, in the arising, there must be the ceasing. There cannot be any arising without the ceasing. But now you're looking at the arising. If you watch it faithfully, devotedly, you will see, you will see the ceasing. And now in that, but you'll know that you saw the ceasing, which came from observing the arising. So you won't just, it isn't just, it isn't the spiritual process just goes, the arising, watching the arising, then you see the ceasing, and that's the end. No. Watching the arising, seeing the ceasing, and then the ceasing goes back to the arising. Keeps turning. And again, just to sort of, just, I don't know, just to save you a dead end,

[32:30]

when you observe the condition of the clinging, okay, clinging to the five aggregates, or clinging to the idea of the self, again, it's not that when you, when you, in seeing that, it's not that we deny what you're clinging to. It's not that we deny the five aggregates, or any feeling, or the self. It's the clinging. It's the condition. So don't, you don't have to move the thing that you're clinging over at all. No matter what it is, you don't have to mess with that. Whatever it is, it's fine. It's life. It's a manifestation of life. The problem is, is not trusting it, and thinking you have to control it. That's the problem. That's the condition. It's that part. But we sometimes can, we sometimes would throw the baby out with the bath water. We sometimes get rid of what we're clinging to, along with the clinging.

[33:36]

Then there'll be a reaction against that, which, which is part of your, your life system telling you this is not, okay, call the whole thing off, you know, you know, leave Tassajara. It's better, it's better to give it up than to mess with the life itself, to hurt the life. It's better to be deluded than to hurt life. Just suffer and be deluded, rather than try to get rid of your life. Once you see, you know, that your life has now been infected with this terrible disease of not trusting it. Okay, so don't hurt life because you don't trust it. Just go ahead and don't trust it and suffer until you're ready to trust life and stop and not mess with it and drop the lack, the not trusting part. That's the part to drop, the lack of trust. Don't drop the thing you're trusting. I mean, don't drop the thing you're not trusting. Don't punish it because you don't trust it. You know, you're punishing it enough already by not trusting it, but don't do any further damage

[34:41]

to it. So, again, so the main thing is presence in this process, which, you know, in most of my conversations I've been talking to people about that. That's the main thing, just presence with this process, and this is just, all this talk is just to warn you ahead of time of the kind of trouble, the kind of stuff you're going to run into if you're present, and to encourage you to continue to be present in this process and trust presence. Trust uprightness. Don't trust good or bad feelings. Don't trust the appearance of Buddha or the disappearance of Buddha. Don't trust the appearance of monsters or whatever. Don't trust friendly faces. Don't trust angry faces. Don't trust hatred. Don't trust greed. Don't trust kindness even. Trust being present

[35:46]

with kindness, and present with unkindness, and present with pain, and then this pivot will reveal itself. And then, again, when the pivot reveals itself, it's especially hard to stay present with that, because these things are getting so dynamic. We have usually, because we can't stand that intensity, we have moved away from that dynamic, because we're so frightened when we're there, and as you start coming back and settling in and opening up to this, you know, this is what you've been running away from. This is what you thought you couldn't handle. This is what you thought you couldn't control, and you're right, you can't. The only way you can control this is by dreaming about it. The only way you can dream about it is to get out of there, distract yourself from it. In the suburbs of that intense place, you can pretend that you can control it. Yeah, I got it under control. When you're real close to it, you don't any longer think you can control it. So then, again, you think you can control it,

[36:49]

I got to get out of here, and all you got to do to get out of there is just don't be present, just turn a little bit one way or another, or lean a little bit ahead, or lean a little bit behind, and you've distracted yourself. And then you can go, and then you can pretend all kinds of things, like you're controlling it, and then you can suffer. So that's, I think, enough. All right? Yes? Would you say that this not trusting our effort to control, that ultimately what we are trying to control, is that pivoting? Either to keep it from happening, or to make it happen sooner? Well, you know, that's, you know, to pivot with what you just said, I would say that's kind of more than life. Even more than not trusting life, we don't trust spiritual liberation.

[37:55]

You know, maybe we trust life slightly more than we trust liberation from life, and happiness. Because, you know, this is about happiness, this is not about how to promote life, because you can continue life. You can continue life while ignoring it, right? You can do all your life-sustaining processes with no attention, right? So in some ways you don't really necessarily damage life that badly by ignoring it, and controlling it in the dark, I mean, and dreaming that you're controlling it. You still go on. You can eat, you can eat with almost no attention, right? You can defecate with almost no attention. You can have sexual relationships with almost no attention. You can be cruel to people with almost no attention. You can protect your body from other people with almost no attention. All the stuff you can do, all the basic things of life that seem to people think are important, you can do with no attention, almost no attention. Or, in other words, they can be done almost totally unconsciously.

[38:59]

But to see life as it is, which is the same as seeing it in such a way that you're happy, that takes complete attention. So, yeah, I think we have trouble staying present with that, and the reason why we have trouble staying present with it is because of our habit of not staying present. What are the four forces in physics? Weak and strong force, is that right? Electromagnetic energy or electromagnetic gravity? Yeah, electromagnetic force, gravity, weak and strong forces in the nucleus, right? Okay, those are the four forces in the world, and in physics. But one physicist said, I forgot his name, he said, but there's one more force, and it's the most powerful of all, it's the force of habit. That is the most powerful force in the universe. That is what creates the world, is a force of

[40:09]

habit. So we have the force of habit, which keeps the universe going and keeps life going, okay? But that force of habit does not make people happy. The force of habit is the habit which keeps things going. That's the powerful one. Okay, now we had this other one, but that doesn't make people happy. That sometimes really trashes people. And when people get trashed, they trash other people and trash plants and everything, right? So that keeps things going, that's very powerful, and we got that established. Now the question is, how can we be happy under such circumstances, with this huge powerful force, which is, don't pay attention to anything that won't promote this life system. That's the basic policy. But the Buddhism is pointing you in a direction which is quite difficult, it is not a habit, but which makes you happy, which sets you free from various terrible side effects of this

[41:16]

powerful selfish habit of promoting individual life. And that is to pay attention, and the key here is, first of all, number one, the first thing to understand is that there is this thing to deal with called suffering. There is also a thing to deal with called pleasure. You have to face that too. If you don't face pleasure, you're going to have trouble noticing pain. Sorry. But also, if you don't notice pain, you're not going to be able to notice pleasure either. But the important thing is that you won't be able to stand the first truth if you can't face your pain, and facing your pain again means not looking for it, not running away from it, just be present. Don't go looking for your pain, just be present. The real pain will come and visit you when you're present, then you'd continue to be present. This is not our habit. This is not our habit. We think we have an alternative to being present with our pain, don't we? We think we do, and even those who won't admit they think they do, in fact, unconsciously they

[42:19]

feel they do, and they dream that they can look someplace else in this intense pain. So they do. They dream that way in their way. We have to bring ourselves back and be present with this first truth, and then the second one dawns, and then the pivot dawns, and then the third one, and so on. Things start turning. And again, as you turn into it, you will experience more and more how difficult it is to stay present. As you experience how difficult it is to stay present, and you stay present with it, you'll be encouraged, and by the encouragement you'll open up to even understanding that it's more difficult than you thought. If you can be present with that, if you settle with that, then you'll see it's actually more difficult than that. But there's an end to this difficulty, and you can arrive at a place where you actually don't succumb to the habit of distraction from this presence. You don't succumb to the habit of what will promote self-cleaning. Yes? I was wondering if you liked how the four notices were written. Pardon? I was wondering if you liked how the writing, you know, like the way it stood out, if you thought it was like an elegant thing for it?

[43:34]

I think it's very elegant, yes. I think the Buddha, you know, in some sense the Buddha, they say, you know, the Buddha had various ... the Buddha even said that he attained, on the night of his awakening, various supernormal, not supernatural, supernormal powers, powers that most people don't have. He attained them. One, two, three, you know, he attained them. And the final, and after the list of powers, he attained this knowledge of the ending of the outflows, and then he saw the four noble truths. Okay? But he did have these supernatural, supernormal powers, and so he could do various fancy stuff if he wanted to. But of all the supernormal powers, I think the greatest one that he had was the ability to like teach. His most supernormal power was talking, and then he could say the four noble truths is like, you know, there have been a number of fantastic musicians and magicians in the world, and he's one of them, but none of them produced these words, the four

[44:42]

wonderful creations. He was very elegant, very brilliant, very effective. But again, I told you this before, but watch, supernormal power, supernormal power, and finally the supernormal power of what? Of no outflows. Supernormal power of what? Supernormal power, the supernormal power of being present. That's what ending outflows means, that you're present. It means you're not distracted by these leakages anymore. You just face the situation, then you'll see the first truth, second truth, third truth, fourth truth. Partly you'll see him because you already heard about him beforehand, so you're probably going to see him. But maybe if you hadn't heard him even, you still might see him just like Buddha saw him, because he said he saw him. So, unfortunately you can't be the founder of Buddhism, but you can you can re-find it, or re-found it. You can actually see suffering, origination,

[45:46]

the pivot, cessation, the path. You can see that when your outflows stop. Anything else? Yes, yes. What? I couldn't hear that. What? Is it the same? She said, what is it that's present, and is it the same as what? Probably. I mean, because when you talk, you use these words like, be present, be upright, or don't growl. So, what is it that is present, that observes?

[46:48]

And is that the same that is not present, and does not observe, and does growl, or is it something else? So, if there was something, is what's present the same as what's not present? Is that right? Is what's present the same as not present? No, it's not the same. What's not present is the idea that what's happening is not happening. Okay? That's a phenomenon of feeling that you're turning away, that you're getting away from the situation, that the situation isn't trustworthy, that you have to do something. That's a certain kind of phenomenon. Okay? That is what we mean by not being present, but it isn't like there is something that's not being present. It isn't like there's somebody or something that's not being present. Not being present is just the idea that you can't trust what's happening. You've got what

[47:52]

is happening, right? Then you add on top of what's happening, this can't be trusted. I can't, I can't, one can't, we can't, let's get out of here. That's what not being present is. It's not like there is something that's not present. There's just this formation of turning away from what's happening, and denying and not trusting what's happening. That's what not being present is. There's not something that is not present. Okay? Now, what's being present? Being present is not something that's present. Being present is just what's happening. That's it. Something's happening, right? Being present is just that. It's like, but usually what's happening, we've got something happening, plus we, it can't be just this, we have to like put a little tag on it called, you stay there, or you move, or it's, you know, somebody's watching you, or whatever, you know, this is not just left alone. This not leaving it alone is called not being present. But there's

[48:53]

not something that's not leaving it alone. There is just the, there's only the not leaving it alone. There's only the mental activity of distrust. There's not somebody who distrusts. Now, there's also the mental activity of saying that there's somebody who distrusts. That's another mental activity, but there's not actually somebody there, there's just the presentation. Somebody doesn't trust this and somebody's watching over this. That's another one. But you don't have to say somebody, you can say, you can just say, this is no good, you know, fix it. That's turning away. Not turning away and being present is just not fixing things. It's just pain, pain, pleasure, feeling pain, feeling pleasure. That's it. That's presence. There's not something or somebody that is present. If you think there's something that's present, then presence is there's thinking that somebody's present. There's just five skandhas. One, two, three, four, five. Corresponding to, you know what? That's all. There's not five skandhas plus something that's five skandhas.

[49:58]

Okay? And in the five skandhas, everything you tell me about, everything you ask about, I can put in these five skandhas and so can you. That's it. Being present is not something present in the five skandhas, it is the five skandhas. Something present in the five skandhas is dwelling in the five skandhas. Something controlling the five skandhas is something in the five skandhas called controlling the five skandhas. It's the fourth skandhas saying, talking about controlling the other three, the other four, or including itself. Because it doesn't realize it's in itself, it thinks it's outside of itself. So the fourth thinks it's outside and looks back at the other five which is itself. This is called not being present. This is called dualistic thinking. This is called the seed for attachment. Then you have attachment and attachment is built on this too. Being present, you see this and you see actually there's just that. It's just what's happening. That's all. And in the seed of that, you see that and what's happening is there is

[50:59]

turning away from what's happening. And there is trying to modify and meddle with what's happening. That's what's going on. But there's not something that's doing that. You'll see that. When you see that, then you see, well, that's it. And then it flips. Well, how does it flip? You see there isn't anything controlling and there isn't anything it needs to control. It's just life. That's all. Yes? How do you think the true self in relation to this? How do I what? Think the truth is what people call the true self in relation to that. How is this? Well, see now you're posing a true self over here in relationship to this. I don't want that. You don't want that, but let's say but you did it anyway. You didn't do it. The language did it. Some language did that. The true self in relationship to the five aggregates. Presence in the five aggregates, presence in your feeling, presence in your emotion, being present with that

[52:04]

is just the five aggregates. What about the true self? Well, how does that, what's that got to do with this? When you're, when you're just present with the five aggregates, the true self jumps up and says hi. But the true self is nothing but that presence. That presence, as it says in the, what do you call it, the dual mirror samadhi, that presence is unfabricated. The presence is not like you got one, two, three, four, five skandhas. You got an experience, okay, and then you build this presence on top of it, and then there's somebody who's present that way. There's not somebody who's present, and there's not some presence on top of the five aggregates. Presence means there's just feeling. When you're, when there's presence, there's, if there's pain, when there's presence, there's just pain. There's not somebody who's pain, or there's not presence with the pain, or there's not even awareness of the pain, there's just pain. That's what pain is, it's awareness of pain. You can't have pain without consciousness. So there is awareness,

[53:08]

that's what pain is. So the five aggregates are there, not four, not just, it didn't just pull the feeling one up by itself, and now we have feeling aggregate. You have feeling, you must have consciousness. That's feeling. There's the five aggregates. What's present? It's the five aggregates. There's nothing constructed on top of it. The unconstructedness, the unconstructedness of the five aggregates is presence. All right? The fact of the five aggregates being the five aggregates, that's not constructed. The five aggregates are constructed. They come together and construct this feeling, then they change and they construct another feeling. The five aggregates are always interrelating in order to construct experience after experience after experience. And there's a force that makes this keep going. It's not going to stop, basically. Don't worry about that. Also, don't try to stop it. You can't stop it. However, the five aggregates being the five aggregates is unconstructedness, is unmade. You get that? The thing being itself is what we

[54:09]

call unborn. That's unborn Buddha nature. Where's about the true self? What does the Dhyamir Samaya say? Although it's unfabricated, although it's not made, it's not without speech. This unmadeness can talk. You know, and it can say, Hi, my name is Ana. It can wave its arms, it can do anything, and anything comes out of the incredible, inconceivable liberation which is based on this presence which is just suchness. The true self emerges from that. There's still a true self, happens to have like an empirical ordinary self, like Eva, Rebecca, it has those things too, right? Because that's five aggregates. It has all the equipment of five aggregates. Anything you need, five aggregates. Everything that's ever been in the world and needs to be in the world today is there, it's five aggregates. From your point of view, it's five aggregates. You always have it. That five aggregates can make anything,

[55:12]

and when the five aggregates are just the five aggregates, then what comes out of there is the true self. But the true self doesn't necessarily come out. It's just the blooming of the five aggregates. But the blooming is not like something substantive, it's the five aggregates bloom when they're just themselves. When they're not just themselves, when you don't trust them and you think you have to modify them, the bloom is squashed, and it's painful. Leaving them alone, they bloom. But it's just five aggregates blooming. You know, we have the five petals of Zen, just another coincidence, right? There's five schools of Zen, which is the five flowers of Zen, five petals of Zen. One flower, five petals. Your life is one flower and five petals. If you let the five petals be the five petals, it's unconstructed five skandhas. It's the unconstructedness of the five skandhas. Realizing the unconstructedness of it, that one flower blooms. And if there's a self,

[56:16]

it's a true self. It's a walking, talking Buddha self. But it's not someplace in relationship to the five skandhas, it is just the blooming of the five skandhas. But who trusts the five skandhas? Only Buddha trusts the five skandhas. If you want to be Buddha, trust the five skandhas. Buddha trusts the five skandhas. Do you trust the five skandhas? I want to. I vow to. In other words, I vow to be present with my experience. I vow to feel my feelings and emote my emotions and let it be that. I vow to settle into the situation without dwelling. That's my vow. Sounds like a good idea, but it's hard, especially, you know, if you get close, it gets so dynamic and the habit says, come on, what are you doing? Let's get on with the program. We don't have time for this intense non-gaining activity. Let's add something to the situation, huh? Was there a paw over there?

[57:21]

Yes. Well, I'm a little confused. I'll try to be a little confused. That's fine. Let it be confusion. Um, one of the, one of the five... Don't try to clear it up. Well, then you can decide if it's clear or not. Um, one of the five aggregates seems to be to construct, uh, an idea of the self. And yet, so what I'm confused about is like how to remain, um, in a sense of being present, being in unconstructedness with, uh, this constant construction of myself, of this idea about who I am and what I'm doing and other things like that. So you're wondering how to be present with, in the midst of the constant construction of the self? When the constant construction of the self, it actually wouldn't be constant at a given moment, when the self-constructing is going on, it's just the self-constructing, that's presence. And call that unconstructedness.

[58:23]

The, the, the construction of self being the construction of self is unconstructed. The way the self is constructing itself at a given moment, being that way, that's unconstructed. That's the same for, that's the same unconstructedness for everybody, the way everybody's constructing themselves, the way that everybody is constructing themselves that way is the same thing. There's no way to tell the difference, that's the same unconstructedness, even though each constructedness is different. And the way you verify that the unconstructedness is such is by looking exactly at how the construction is happening. So presence isn't just like, okay, okay, fine, there's construction of a self. In order to realize the unconstructedness, there has to be appreciation of the way the self is being constructed. So the, the presence is that, the exact way that the self is being constructed. So it isn't just that you leave it alone, you leave it alone knowing what it's like, it's like, you know, if your kids are away for, in college in a safe foreign country,

[59:29]

it's not so difficult. But if they're like right under your nose where you can see what they're doing, to leave, to sort of like leave them alone when you actually can see what they're doing, it's difficult. So to actually watch, to get close to what's happening and then leave it alone, that's what's required. So you want to know how? The how is, leave it alone. But in other words, the how is you don't do anything. And yet you're totally present with it and you know all about it. And I say you know, but there is complete knowledge of it, complete awareness of it, and leave it alone. Sometimes we can leave things alone a little bit by just not paying attention to them. We think, but actually we're, you know, secretly messing around with it, which is actually impossible. That's why we suffer. You have more, put in mind? Well, just follow up, in talking about total knowledge about it, you mean like understanding its visual patterns, understanding like how it feels so solid and

[60:36]

separate and nervous and... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the five skandhas. He just told us that all those things are in the five skandhas. And the five skandhas are aware of themselves, I mean, because one of them is awareness. So that's part of what it is. To make a self, you've got to have awareness, because self is made of five skandhas. Self is not made, self cannot be made from four skandhas, unless you're in a special trance where the feeling, where the materiality has dropped away. But unless you're in one of those trances, all five are there. And even in that one, all the mental stuff's there. Okay, so you can't like be doing something without consciousness. And you can't have consciousness without... I should say, you can't imagine that you're doing something without consciousness, and you can't have consciousness without imagining you're doing something. This is the deal. So all this stuff going on all the time, and you can't have part of it going on, because all these things are interdependent. Yes? Did you just say that if you're conscious, something is always going on?

[61:40]

Yeah, if you're conscious, if you're conscious, then there's always... if you're conscious, you've got one skandha, right? Right? That's the consciousness skandha, you've got that. And if you've got that one, you must have the other four. And if you've got all four of them there, you've got this... for the moment anyway, you have quite a bit going on. And the pattern of what's going on, the shape of what's going on, has some kind of tendency to it. The tendency of what is doing is called doing. The tendency of your experience is the definition of karma. So there's always some tendency in whatever experience you have, and so there's always in that sense, that's the karma of the situation. Now sometimes the karma is indeterminate, you can't tell where it's going, that's called indeterminate karma, but otherwise it's going in a wholesome or unwholesome direction. So there's always some wholesome or unwholesome tendency, or will, in a moment of experience, if there's consciousness. Now if there isn't consciousness,

[62:45]

there isn't that, because you can't have that without consciousness. So yeah, that's what I said. All right. Yes. Well yeah, I will, but that's, I'd rather just, you know, that's the fourth truth, right? So yes, definitely this will be related to the Eightfold Path. This is a part of the teaching, right? But to launch off into that at this point, I think it'd be better to do it, give us, you know, give more time to the next two truths. I mean, the Eightfold Path is completely contained in this kind of unconstructedness and stillness, it's totally contained there, that's for sure. But how that's the case, I think it'd be good for us to bring that up. And, yes. So in looking at dewdrop as a footnote to that, right, unconstructedness and stillness,

[63:46]

it said things unconditioned, so I think I'm not understanding. Yeah, so unconditioned, I mean, I'm not going to say that's wrong, but when you say unconditioned, sometimes people think it means unconditioned, it means it doesn't have conditions. Okay, that isn't what unconditioned means. If it does, then it's wrong. There's nothing that, there's no thing that doesn't have conditioned conditions, all right? There's no such thing that doesn't have conditions, there's nothing like that. No, nothing, there are no things that don't have conditions, all right? So what could, so how, the Chinese character which was translated by somebody, I don't know who did that, as unconditioned is in these two characters. This means there's nothing, there isn't any, and this means made. In Sanskrit it's asamskrita,

[64:49]

that's translated as unconditioned, it means unmade. Okay, now, you can use the word unconditioned if you want, but what that means is that you have something, right? Something that's, whatever that is arose from conditions, all right? You have that. That thing being that thing is unmade, that's unconditioned. In other words, it's unconditional, there's nothing you can do about it. The entire universe has made this present experience that comes from causes and conditions. All conditions are dependent on other conditions, all events are dependent on conditions, all right? But the fact that things are that way, that's not made. That's the unconditioned. And if you understand that unconditioned, then you realize nirvana. And nirvana is sometimes called unconditioned, but literally the character that uses asamskrita, unscripted, subscripted means ah, not, sam means put together,

[65:50]

skrita means to be made, not put together and made, that's what it means. Okay, but you're made, but the fact that you're made is not made. And the way that you're made, being the way that you're made, that's not made. That's unconditioned. Because, you see, that's the same for you as it is for Jeremy, as it is for Barbara. It's the same. It's the same thing. There's no way to tell the difference between the different unconstructedness. There's no, there's no marks, there's no characteristics, you can't make that. Things can be made, but it's not a thing. It's not a thing. It is freedom from things. It is the nirvana of things. It is the freedom and liberation and joy of each thing. Okay? And you can call it unconstructed, unconditioned, but I mean, it means unconditional freedom is what it means. And this unconditional freedom, you can trade with other people,

[66:52]

you know, like baseball cards, except you don't get any new cards. Your freedom is the same as my freedom. Your freedom is a freedom from you being you. Mine is a freedom from me being me, but it's the same freedom. That's what unconditioned is. So it's maybe good that people use that word because it provokes a good question. Yes? Um, I was wondering if you could speak a little bit more about something just mentioned, the, um, that wholesome or unwholesome tendency, what you call will or volition. Yes. Or also maybe intention. Yes. Will, volition, intention. The, uh, Sanskrit word is cetana. And how that arises. Cetana is, is the, uh, is the, is the overall pattern of a given moment of experience.

[67:54]

You wonder how that arises? How it, how it arises, how it's cultivated. How the cetana arises? Yeah. Well, like when, when the mountains come up, you know, out of the ground, and, and the rainfall falls, and I'm going to make valleys and stuff like that. Okay. As soon as the, as soon as the mountains rise up, there's a pattern. So the pattern of the mountains are, co-arises with the, with the shape of the mountains. So you have a mountain here, and a mountain there, and a mountain here. So that, that creates a certain pattern, like you poured water in the mountains, the water would flow a certain way. That's the cetana. It's the pattern. So you seem to have an implication of the topology, or the topography of, of a given experience. And that, that, this arises in relationship to all the things come up. If these things come up, and these don't, then you have a, you have a shape like this. If those come up, then, and these go down, you have a shape like that. So it's a, it's a thing that dependently co-arises with whichever, whatever happened.

[68:55]

If anger's there, then there won't be greed. If greed's there, there won't be anger. If there's concentration, and diligence, and faith, then other things won't be there. So all these different relationships. So this kind of consciousness would tend to go, look like it has a positive direction. This kind of consciousness has a negative direction. What, what? That's, that's the, when you read the consciousness, the tendency of the consciousness, the reading of it, the shape of it is the cetana. And that would be the definition of karma. And what about the energetic factor? You know, that, that, the energy, you know, the energy behind the, the will, or the volition, or the intention, the ability, you know, to make things happen. The energy is manifesting as these mountains and rivers. The energy is manifesting as greed, anger, and confusion, and concentration, and faith, and diligence, and sloth, and envy. That's the way the energy's manifesting.

[69:57]

Taking that form. That's answer number one. Do you have a question following that? I may have. This is, this is, this is answering somewhat my question. It's a question I've asked before. I never seem to quite get the answer. Um, that volitional force, or intention, um, makes things happen in the world, right? I mean, it causes, it causes things to happen. The world arises from this, from this, from this volition. The world arises from karma. That's right. The world of illusion arises from karma. That's right. Right. And, and, um, it seems as though we have some sort of ability to manifest in the world. That we, you know, it's, um, I'm wondering if that's what is the source of it, or if

[71:04]

that's, or if it's something else, or if we're talking about the same thing. When you say ability to manifest in the world, do you mean ability to create a world? Or do you mean an ability to manifest as a free person, which you're, which you're referring to? Are you talking about... I mean the ability to manifest as a free person. Yeah, that's not this. Okay. This is how... That's why... This is, this is how you build the basis for the need to be free. Karma is the basis for, the basis for the world of, of suffering. That's how, that's how the world of suffering is created, through karma. So then... And when, and when you have no outflows, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you are just present, you do not any longer create any karma. You just see this as a pattern of your consciousness, and you don't, you don't attribute reality to it, you just observe it. Therefore, there's no karma, the world is no longer created by you. All the karma ever created by me, through, from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion, you don't do any more karma at that point.

[72:05]

There still is the results of karma, various things happen to you, but you're no longer creating the world, when you don't have outflow. You just see the pattern. The pattern is still there, you still have five skandhas arising, and every time there's five skandhas, one of the elements in the fourth skandha is this cetanā. And the cetanā is actually put there, just, or you could put it any place you want to, but if you make it a sixth skandha if you want to, and actually they did have it be the sixth skandha for a while, they thought, actually let's put it in the fifth, the fourth, I don't need to have this sixth, because it's just the pattern of the other ones. But if you're not upright, you don't just see it's a pattern, you think it's actually something you can do. And thinking that way creates the world. You never can do anything, but thinking that you can, creates a world of cause and effect, creates a world of, you know, I do this, and all that. So when you have a sense of self, you cannot, if you believe in a sense of self, you cannot resist attributing reality to that cetanā and falling into karma. If you don't believe in yourself, in identity of yourself, you can leave the cetanā alone

[73:09]

and see it's a pattern of consciousness, there's no karma. So you don't develop the cetanā, you develop the presence, which is to let cetanā be cetanā. And cetanā is just a pattern, it's not an action, there's no movement in the present, otherwise it wouldn't be present. Cetanā is something that happens in the present, it's the way your presence is shaped. But if you're not present with your present, and you look to the side, don't pay attention to your present, then you think your presence is doing something, and then you create karma, and the karma comes back and says, okay, you created this, now you don't pay any more attention. You didn't pay attention, and while you weren't paying attention, you did this karma, so now don't pay attention again. Do you understand? This strikes me as very important, that you create karma when you're not paying attention, and the force of karma is to tell you, since you did this thing when you weren't paying attention, you have to stay over there in the realm where you weren't paying attention, to take care of what you created when you weren't paying attention.

[74:10]

It's irresponsible for you not to leave the world of karma and go off into the world of presence. You can't go into the world beyond karma, because you have to stay in the world of karma and take care of the karma you created when you weren't present. You see, that's a positive force. So the karmic world is pulling you back to say, stay here, take care of what you created out of delusion. Don't leave, and just be present. So you have to decide whether you're going to stand up and say, excuse me, but I think it'll be all right if I just stay present with the stuff I've created through karma, and don't create any more. I think I've done enough. I don't have to do any more. I know you're asking me to do more, because we've been doing this together all this time, but I'm actually dropping out. But I'm not leaving, I'm still here. I'm just not going to believe that I'm doing this. I'll take responsibility for what's done, but I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm just going to see Chaitanya as one of the elements in the five skandhas.

[75:13]

I'm not going to dwell in Chaitanya. I'm not going to be a servant of Chaitanya anymore. I'm just going to watch it. I'm not going to control it. I'm not going to stop it. I'm not going to be pushed around by it. I'm just going to... If it pushes me, I'll be moved, but I'm not going to run away from it. I'm not going to run after it. That's how you cultivate freedom from Chaitanya, freedom from karma, by being present with the karma. Even though the habit is to say, don't be present, don't be present, don't be present, because if you're present, the whole system is going to fall apart. The karmic world is going to come tumbling down in the most horrendous way if you don't stay here and play the game. But in fact, of course, the karmic world is coming down in a horrendous way already. That's the problem. The karmic world is bad enough, isn't it? Doesn't need to be any worse. Can it get worse? Maybe. Maybe it could. I don't know. But the point is, you can become free of it

[76:15]

and you can lead others to freedom from it if you would switch from being its slave, which means fighting it or indulging in it, to being present with it and studying karma. Studying karma, studying Chaitanya is liberation from Chaitanya. And the way to study is not to try to make it different, but just clearly observe it. If you clearly observe it, you'll see it's not karma, it's not action. It's just a pattern of consciousness. It's just a kind of like a little kind of an intention. It's an intention in the moment. That's all it is. It's just where the moment seems to be going. Okay? But maybe we need a whole, you know, series of classes on karma, but maybe a whole class would be good at some point. Could you just say though what that manifestation as a free person, what that process actually is?

[77:15]

What is it? Yeah. It's unconstructedness and stillness. It's like in the middle of a moment of experience. Okay? No matter what it is, you're always the same person. That's freedom. You're never pushed around by circumstances because you're always turned into the same thing, namely the unconstructedness of circumstances. And the way you tune into that unconstructedness is to have a non-meddling, non-manipulative, non-gaining presence with what's happening. That's the door to freedom. And so from that place you never have intentions? No, no, [...] no. It's got intentions, okay? Yeah. Got intentions. What else did you want to say? You know, something. Yeah, intentions. Okay, and are intentions by themselves?

[78:17]

No. What, where do intentions live? Huh? In the five skandhas. They live in the five skandhas. You got all five skandhas. Lots of, you got a very busy, happy family here, okay? Lots is going on, okay? And the intention is not, is the fact that a lot is going on. The intention is you got this big, complicated mess. That's the intention. That's where you live. Okay, moment by moment. A whole universe comes up. There you are. And you say you don't have that? No, no. What did you say? You said, you said something like you don't, when you're coming from that place, you don't have intentions. Didn't you say that? You know, I need to be very specific about this question because otherwise I won't get my answer. What is it when people have the ability, like cities, you know, people have the ability to, you know, sort of break the habitual agreement that we have about what reality is and make things happen. You know, like people who can make things fall off walls

[79:19]

or, you know, make things appear. What are they doing? What, what is going on within this system of thought? I don't know. Okay. What, what I think, those are what I call, those are those supernatural powers I told you about are lesser than the power of being present. The main thing in Buddhism is not about making things fall off the wall. Although the Buddha could make things fall off the wall. He said he didn't really recommend that kind of practice so much. But you could do it, get people's attention. He mostly recommended the higher, the higher development, which is this presence without outflows. Now, if you have the presence without outflows and you really do need to make these fall off the wall, you might be able to sort of like take some, what do you call it, adult education classes in that topic.

[80:19]

You would be able to do it. If beings needed you to learn that, you could learn that. But the point is, the most important thing to teach people is not to get stuff to come off the walls, but how to be free with stuff on the walls or off the walls. Okay. And you said, I heard you say something about when you're coming from this place, you're not, you don't have this intention of stuff, but this place is right in the middle of all this intentions and stuff. You're in the same place. You're completely in the same place, but you're just not manipulating with it. You're just present with it. That's all. You have no outflows. You have no desires about what's happening. You've got intentions. You don't have any desires for it to be different. You don't have any fixed views. You don't have any perverted views. You're just present with it without any of those outflows. Then, the person is free. And if the person wants to make things fall off the wall, they can do that. And if they don't, if that isn't helpful, they don't particularly care usually. But they might. It doesn't matter.

[81:23]

The point is, you've got a free person. And that person, naturally, is forced to teach others to be free. It's just, they're connected into the freedom dimension, and they just are forced to share that and convey that to others. And they have no intention to do so. You know, except that they want to. They really want to. But it's not like to make things different. It's just that that's the way they are. They want other people to enter this dimension. And the interest of the dimension is this kind of presence with whatever is happening. Including that you're running away from what's happening. Including that. So you're very much in the mud, in the feis gondas, the question is how to be present with them in such a way that the feis gondas bloom. It's the blooming of the feis gondas. And when feis gondas are blooming, many things can happen. So Suzuki Roshi's way would be more,

[82:26]

rather than him making something fall off the wall, he would help you take something off the wall. You know? If you needed to be a magician, he'd help you. You know? You have fundraising campaigns, you can go to magician school or whatever. In Zen, the most wonderful thing is, you know, to follow the schedule at Tassajara. That's the most miraculous, fabulous thing that's possible in the universe. Or to take a pee in San Francisco. This is miraculous in Zen. Right? This is our school, you know? You know that's true. Other yogis make these, you know, made this huge rainbow, you know, from Japan over to Korea, you know. The Zen master just made a rainbow from the end of his urethra into the lake. The point is freedom, you know.

[83:29]

And you can make rainbow, you can be free and make rainbows over to Korea. And you can be free and make rainbows over to the toilet. The point is, what's freedom? That's what it's all about. Freedom from suffering. These four truths are about freedom from suffering. And that's really what the main thing. And there just happens to be some supernatural power, supernormal powers, you know, in and out of the situation occasionally. But that's not... That's only manifested if it gets people's attention towards the practice of freedom. Enough for now? Okay. If you want to, I can have some classes on karma, more classes on karma. That's part of this course.

[84:14]

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