To remember and accept, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. I'd like to tell you what kind of plan I have for what I would present to you in the Dharma Talks during the Sashin. So my plan is that tonight we will discuss the third precept, the third of the ten great precepts, and also I will present a Zen story.

[01:08]

And in particular, each day I would like to present a Zen story and a precept. And so if we do three tonight, then we have seven more to go, and if we do one each day, we'll finish the ten great precepts, at least at this first time through. And so for the sake of roundness and completion or closure with these studies, I thought I'd try that and may not succeed, of course. It's fairly unrealistic, but that's what I'd like to try to do. And also the stories that I would like to present are the stories of each day a story of one of our what I would call pioneers in our lineage. And this practice period, in a sense, I felt we started with Yakusan Igen, Yao Shan, Wan Yi, and then we went on to Yun Yan.

[02:30]

I've brought up lots of stories about them and their life together. They are the 36th and 37th in our lineage. So I'd like to bring up tonight the 38th and then do the 39th through the 45th during Zazen. It's 39 through 45, 9, I mean 7. It doesn't seem like it, but it is, isn't it? It seems like it would only be 6, but it's 7. And I particularly hope to do that because the 45th is one of my favorite Zen teachers, Fuyo Dōkai. And the stories that I'd like to bring up are the stories of the transmission between each one of these people in this lineage to each other. Transmission stories with maybe some side stories. That's, again, very impractical that we'd be able to do that, but that's my plan.

[03:39]

The reason for trying to do both is, I guess, first of all, it would seem wonderful to do both. And second of all, I feel that the stories, in some ways, are easier for you to carry, in some ways, in terms of your subjective experience while you're sitting. The stories, somehow, I find people have a little easier time. The stories seem to come back, whereas the teachings and the precepts, although they're received, they don't necessarily come back the same way. They're more, I guess, if they have a kind of context of the story, they think they work better. So that's why I'd like to present both the story and the precept. There's a little bit of difficulty there of how do the stories work with that precept, but that would be part of my inspiration, is to figure out how to make the stories and the precepts work together.

[04:42]

Also, I'll say this again and again, but the level of commentary and the level of presentation of these precepts, of the teachings on these precepts, is to use them as ways to understand our sitting practice. So I will try to bring up those teachings that do that and have that in mind as I present them. The stories also, I think, do that, but some teachings and instructions on the precepts don't particularly have that bent towards sitting practice and towards Zazen itself. They're perfectly important, but those I will not be bringing up so much during the next week. Yes? In the last session, you encouraged us, or in some respects encouraged us to take notes during the session lectures.

[05:51]

I'm wondering whether that would be practiced this year. You can do it if you'd like. The basic commentary on each precept will be this Kyoju Kaimo, this essay or instructions on receiving and teaching the precepts. So you all have a copy of that, right? So that's kind of the basic text on each precept, and I will try to help you get more access to that basic two or three sentences on each precept. So that's the plan that I offer, and I hope it's acceptable to you and that you will be able to support it by your listening quietly and experiencing all that you will experience when you hear this stuff.

[06:54]

Which I'm sure will be a lot. And this story tonight I think is apropos of coping with such an onslaught of Dharma. So the 37th, I mean the 36th Patriarch is Yaoshan, and his story was where he went to Master Ma, I mean Master Sakito, Shirto, and he had been an expert actually on the precepts, studied them and practiced them very diligently and actually taught them. He was very thorough going about that, but then he felt that somehow he wasn't really getting to the bottom of Buddha Dharma and he heard about the Zen school, so he went to see Shirto, Stonehead, and asked him if he would kind of like point him to the heart of the whole matter.

[08:06]

And Shirto said, being just so won't do, not being just so won't do either, being just so and not being just so won't do at all. How about you? That's the story of those two guys. And then he sent Matsu, remember? He couldn't say anything when Shirto said, how about you? And his teacher said, there's no affinity here, you go see Master Ma. So they went to see Master Ma and Master Ma said, sometimes I make him raise his eyebrows and blink, sometimes I don't make him raise his eyebrows and blink. Sometimes raising the eyebrows and blinking is right and sometimes raising the eyebrows and blinking is not right. How about you? That time he woke up. So that's the great Yaoshan.

[09:09]

And then Yunyan was Baizhang Waihai's attendant for 20 years and when Baizhang died he went to study with Yaoshan and Yaoshan welcomed him to the community and asked him various questions, like he said, asking questions about Baizhang because he wanted to find out about Baizhang from his Jisha. So he'd ask him, well what did Baizhang teach? And he would tell him what Baizhang taught and then he would ask him questions about that and Yunyan pretty much would try but he was, you know, he had a heart to practice but anyway, Yaoshan didn't think much of what he said. For example, one time he said, you know, what do you do about birth and death right in front of your eyes? And Yunyan said, there isn't any birth and death before my eyes. And Yaoshan criticized his coarse understanding of emptiness and after asking him how many years he practiced and he said, you've practiced this long, you still have this kind of understanding of emptiness?

[10:15]

And then finally Yaoshan said, well tell me some more about what Baizhang taught and Yunyan said, well one day he came into the hall and then he chased all the monks out with his staff and just before they got to the door he said, hey you, hey you guys, and then when they turned around he said, what is it? And then Yaoshan said, oh now through you I finally understand brother Baizhang. And then Yunyan woke up. So those are the thirty-six and thirty-seven. Now thirty-eight is the great teacher Dongshan and he had already been traveling around. Yes? Dongshan? Okay. This is just a romanization, right? This is Tozan Ryokai in our list, right? Tozan Ryokai in the Chinese pronunciation is sort of like Dongshan and you can write it D-O-N-S-H-A-N, Dongshan.

[11:28]

Or D-U-N-G. Or T-U-N-G. Huh? Or T-U-N-G. Or T, yeah T. T without a mark on it is pronounced like a D. Sometimes it looks like this. He's number thirty-eight. So he had traveled around for quite a while before he met Yunyan. He had already met the great Nanchuan and been recognized by Nanchuan. As just a kid he had been recognized by Nanchuan. He also met Guishan and so on. He met these great teachers and had important meetings with them. And now he had been directed by Guishan to Yunyan. Guishan also was a senior disciple of Baijian. So Guishan was with Baijian at the same time Yunyan was, but he's older. Senior.

[12:46]

Now Dongshan has been sent to Yunyan. I'll tell you the background story but I'll just tell you that this is the climax. He finally comes to Yunyan and he visited Yunyan and he asked him, Who can hear the non-sentient beings preach the Dharma? And Yunyan said, Non-sentient beings can hear non-sentient beings preach the Dharma. And Yunyan said, Do you hear it? And Yunyan replied, If I could hear it, you would not be able to hear me preach the Dharma. Yunyan said, In that case, oh I got it wrong, sorry. He visited Yunyan and Dongshan, his monk's name is Liangzhe.

[13:54]

Liangzhe is his monk's name. Dongshan is the name of the mountain he became an abbot of. So Liangzhe is traveling. Liangzhe goes to Yunyan and Liangzhe says, Who can hear the non-sentient beings preach the Dharma? And Yunyan said, Non-sentient beings can hear non-sentient beings preach the Dharma. And Liangzhe says, Do you hear it? And Yunyan said, If I could hear it, you would not be able to hear me preach the Dharma. And Liangzhe said, In that case, Liangzhe does not hear you preach the Dharma. Yunyan said, If you still don't hear me preach the Dharma, how much less can you hear non-sentient beings preach the Dharma? Liangzhe was greatly awakened at this point and he made this verse, Wonderful, wonderful, the preaching of the Dharma of non-sentient beings is inconceivable.

[15:13]

If you try to hear it with your ears, it's hard to understand. When you listen with your mind's eye, then you'll know it. Yunyan approved. So this is the climax of a longer story with fairly complicated dialogue, but I'd like to expose you to it if you would, you know, please listen to it. Okay? It's a very good story, but it's kind of complicated. You can read it, but it's nice to listen to it too sometimes on a Saturday night before a Sashin. So this young man, this young monk, Chinese monk, was traveling around visiting various teachers and he went to visit this great master, Guishan, and so he asked him this kind of question.

[16:20]

He'd heard about this. He said, Lately, I hear that the national teacher, Zheng, national teacher Zheng, by the way, is a direct disciple of the Sixth Patriarch. I heard lately that the national teacher, Zheng, has a saying about non-sentient beings preaching the Dharma, but I still don't grasp its subtleties. Guishan said, Do you remember this story about this teaching? And Liang just said, Yes, I remember it. Guishan said, Well, give it a try and see if you can remember it. So Liang just said, A monk asked the national teacher, What is the mind of the ancient Buddha? The national teacher said, Walls, roof tiles and pebbles. The monk asked, Aren't those non-sentient or insentient?

[17:26]

The national teacher said, They are. The monk asked, Will you explain how they preach the Dharma? The national teacher said, They constantly preach vigorously without ceasing. The monk said, Why can't I hear it? The national teacher said, You don't hear it, but that doesn't stop others from hearing it. Another translation which I want to say is, You yourself don't hear it, but you shouldn't hinder that which does hear it. And that's kind of what, in a way, I'd like to ask of you this week, is that we human beings, you yourself may not hear the teaching of non-sentient, insentient beings this week.

[18:35]

In other words, we're going to cover so much material that you, the person, may not be able to hear it. But I'd like to ask you not to hinder that which does hear it. I really believe somebody does hear it. And I also think that when we human beings sit and listen to stuff, we will think, Gee, I'm not getting this, or... You may think various things, like maybe I'm not so smart, or maybe somebody else is. I think that guy over there is getting it, or the teacher probably gets it, or why is he exposing us to so much material, and stuff like that might occur to your mind. And I don't want you to deny that that's occurring in your minds. But while all that's happening, which may or may not happen, but if it does, let it happen, while that's happening, please also just open your heart and your mind and let that which does hear it, hear it. Somebody's hearing this, I really believe it. That's why I give it. I do care if the people hear it too, that's nice,

[19:37]

but mostly I'm just entertaining your Buddha nature by this stuff, and mine too. You know, we're feeding our essence by hearing these stories, which have been transmitted for thousands of years, and these precepts. So, in a way, I ask you to listen to that instruction that's in here. Although you may not, or you yourself may not hear this teaching, don't hinder that which does, or don't stop the one who does. Now, the rest of the story, we'll go into more about this process. So, the monk said, I wonder if anyone else can hear it? And the national teacher says, the saints can hear it. Or the monk said, also another translation is, the monk asked him, well, who can hear it? If I can't hear it, who can hear it? And the national teacher says, the saints can hear it.

[20:40]

Now, I'll just say a footnote there. Saints means, you could say Buddhist saints, not Bodhisattvas. But there are beings, you know, sages and saints that actually can hear this stuff. Okay? What's a sage or a saint? Well, like, you know, I don't know if I should say this, but secretly I would say, it's like an arhat. You know, somebody who is personally enlightened, rather than someone who's dedicated to the enlightenment of all beings. Someone who has a real deep understanding, and they can actually hear, for example, the teaching of the walls, tiles and pebbles. They personally can hear it. Now, this Buddha, or this great Bodhisattva, this national teacher, is saying, that these walls, tiles and pebbles are the Buddhas teaching the Dharma. And they're teaching all the time. Okay, he's saying that. Okay? And the monk says, why can't I hear it? And the teacher says, although you may not be able to hear it, don't hinder that which does hear it. Now, the saints hear it, but there's also something else that hears it.

[21:42]

The non-sentient ones hear it. But you'll see, next, this is way longer, you'll get more. So, the monk says, can you hear it? He says to the national teacher, okay? Because you think the national teacher is telling you that saints can hear it. Is the national teacher a saint? The student asks, can you hear it, teacher? The national teacher says, I can't hear it. The national teacher can't hear it. Saints can hear it, but the national teacher can't hear it. This monk can't hear it, but this monk who can't hear it, and the national teacher who can't hear it, are being asked to not hinder that which does hear it. So, the part of the Zen school is to say, please be Zen students, please be Zen monks, please be bodhisattvas, and don't hinder that which hears it, but don't be a saint that can hear it. Give up hearing it for yourself. Don't hinder that which does hear it, and don't be a saint that can hear it. That's the worst.

[22:43]

You're stuck. It's better to be anything than that. So, the national teacher can't hear it either, so then the monk says, if you can't hear it, how do you know sentient beings can preach the Dharma? Excuse me, in sentient beings can preach the Dharma. The national teacher said, fortunately, I can't hear it. If I did hear it, I would be the same as the saints, and then I would not be able to preach Dharma to you, and you would not be able to hear me preach the Dharma. The national teacher, this is the national teacher, okay, disciple of the Sixth Patriarch, he can't hear it, and he's glad he can't hear it. The monk says, how do you know if you can't hear it? He doesn't say how he knows. He doesn't say how he knows, you notice? He just says, it's good that I don't know. It's good that I can't hear, because if I could hear, you wouldn't be able to hear me preach Dharma, because I would be the same as these saints.

[23:48]

So then the monk says, then do sentient beings have no part in this? The national teacher said, I preach this, he didn't say no they don't, he just said, I preach this for sentient beings, not for saints. The monk says, after sentient beings hear it, then what? The national teacher says, then they are no longer sentient beings. The monk asked, what scripture? What scripture are you getting this from? About these non-sentient beings preaching the Dharma. Now, in a way this is a joke, right? I mean, what's a joke for the teacher to answer? He doesn't have to get it from the scripture, but anyway, he's going to give him an answer. So he says, clearly, words that do not accord with the scripture

[24:50]

are not discussed among gentlemen. So of course, I wouldn't be bringing something up that I couldn't have a scriptural citation for. These are Chinese gentlemen, right? He said, don't you know the Avatamsaka Sutra? It says, worlds preach, sentient beings preach, all things past, present and future preach. That's the story which the young monk, Liangzhe, has just recited to the great teacher, Guishan. He doesn't understand the subtleties. Okay? He wants Guishan to help him with the subtleties. But before we get into Guishan, how Guishan helps him with the subtleties, do you see the subtleties of this teaching here? Non-sentient beings are teaching the Dharma all the time. Walls, tiles, mountains, rivers, they're teaching the Dharma all the time. Although we do not hear it,

[25:51]

we should not hinder that which does hear it. Yes? By hearing it, do you hinder that which does hear it? No, it's okay. As a matter of fact, someday you will hear it, maybe, and then you won't be a sentient being anymore. You'll be a saint? No, you'll be a non-sentient being. In other words, you'll be a Buddha if you're still alive. If you're dead, you'll be a... you know, you'll be a corpse that's expounding the Dharma, like the walls and tiles and mountains and rivers. It's okay for us to hear the Dharma. It's all right. It's just that if we don't, don't let that get in the way of that which does. Something does hear it, and that something is not like something that... that something completely pervades all of us. That something is what we all really are, individually, in each location, and all over time and space. That's what's hearing this teaching, and that's what's giving the teaching through all of us. But anyway,

[26:53]

he says, these things are teaching. The monk says, why can't I hear it? He says, don't worry about that, just don't get in the way of what does hear it. The monk says, well, who does hear it? And he says, the saints hear it. And then he says, do you hear it? And he says, no, I can't. He said, well, if you can't, how do you know this is true? He says, fortunately, I don't hear it, because if I did, you wouldn't be able to hear me teach you this now. And then the monk says, what did he say next? Something. That's that story. So now he's gotten to Guishan, and he's asking Guishan, yes? Did the teacher ever hear it? Hmm? Did the teacher ever hear the Dharma that's important to him?

[27:55]

The national teacher? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. But there's another thing, somewhere in the neighborhood of the national teacher that did hear it, I think, before this story happened. But when he, when the monk asked the national teacher if you hear it, the national teacher said, no, I don't. But that thing that does hear it was there too, and had probably been having a good time, you know, for quite a while. Probably since the days the Sixth Patriarch was still alive, I would guess. That's probably how he got to be the national teacher. But still, when you ask, do you hear it? He said, no, I can't, because I ain't a saint, and if I did, if I was, I wouldn't be able to teach you. So it's kind of complicated, just like we are, right? We have this kind of like, we have this, what do you call it, dependently co-arisen birth and death is in the same place as dependently co-arisen suchness. Remember? That's the subtle part. But just let me finish this thing about what Guishan did, okay?

[28:56]

Then you can get the whole story, and then you can ask questions. Is that all right? I don't want you to get too confused if you break the story up into little pieces. So he comes to Guishan, he just recited the story to Guishan, and asked Guishan to help him with the subtleties. So then, after the Master Liangzhe, young Liangzhe had finished reciting, Guishan said, oh, I have that teaching here too. But, I've had no chance to meet any awakened people. And Liangzhe said, it's still not clear to me. Please, I beg you to instruct me. So, Guishan raised his whisk, and Liangzhe said, and said, do you understand? And, Liangzhe said, no, I don't. Please, explain. And Guishan said,

[29:57]

I can't explain it to you in words. But, there is someone else who has practiced the way Oh, no. Then Liangzhe said, is there someone else who sought the way when you did with Baijian? And Guishan said, yeah, if you go to the stone caverns in Li Ling, in Yuexia, you will find someone there named Yunyan. If you stir up the grass and gaze into the wind, you will certainly be welcomed. The Master said, what's he like? What's Yunyan like? And Guishan said, once Yunyan asked me, asked his older brother, what should a student do when he wants to serve the Master? And I said to him, Guishan said to him, he can do it for the first time when he puts an end to all leakage. And Yunyan said,

[31:02]

would he still be not able to violate the Master's teaching? And Guishan answered to Yunyan, the main thing is that you should not say where I am. That's a story about Yunyan that Guishan told Liangzhe. Liangzhe, I guess, liked the story, so he traveled a long way to meet Yunyan. This guy who we heard from previous stories is a little bit dumb, right? Very sincere, total wholehearted guy, stayed right by Bajang for 20 years, and then studied sincerely with Guishan, but not too bright. However, he was a great, great teacher, maybe one of the greatest. That's why I think he's so encouraging. Anyway, so then he travels all this way and he goes up to Yunyan and brings up

[32:03]

the same story, you know, the same teaching. So he says, you know, I heard about this teaching about the national teacher who says that non-sentient or insentient beings preach the Dharma. So I ask you now, Yunyan, who can hear non-sentient beings preach the Dharma? And Yunyan says, non-sentient can hear the non-sentient preach the Dharma. And, so Yunyan, so Liangzhe says, do you hear it? And Yunyan said, if I could hear it, you would not be able to hear me preach the Dharma. And Liangzhe said, in that case, Liangzhe doesn't, does not hear you preach the Dharma. And Yunyan said, if you still don't hear me preach the Dharma, how much less can you hear the non-sentient

[33:03]

preach the Dharma? And the master woke up. However, they missed one line in here, which is very important. He then said, what sutra did you get this from? And he said, oh, haven't you heard in the Amitabha Sutra, it says, I think, grasses, fields, the whole earth expounds the Dharma. And then he woke up and gave this poem. And then he started studying with Yunyan, and lots of other good stories followed about them. And this story, I would like, because it's almost like to some extent, in one sense, I feel like they must have had either Pony Express or Telegram in those days or Guixiang to send a head to Yunyan to tell him this guy was coming and tell him what to say. On the other hand, if you remember that they were Dharma brothers

[34:03]

and studied with with Baizhang for a long time, they probably had been discussing this stuff for a while. The national teacher was even older than Baizhang, so they probably already had some kind of shared understanding of this stuff. They were sharing it. So it maybe isn't so amazing as it might seem that he would travel all that way and that this guy would be able to answer it. But this is also part of what I kind of would like it to be that in the Zen world in America that you travel around and you could people would have similar stories and shared understanding and we could work with the subtleties like that. So now do you have some questions about the story that... Yes? Have you raised your hand yet? But I'm ready. Okay. Penetrating Dharma.

[35:34]

Can anybody wake up? When Yangju was advised to strip the grass and gaze at the wind, what does that mean? It means Can you say that phrase strip the grass and gaze at the wind? I thought it was. Another translation by the way is if you can do that it says you will be welcome here. Another way of translating it is to say you will be able to find someone you respect. So one way to see it is that he's going to travel, right? And he's going to be going through various experiences and through fields and grass and wind's going to be blowing in his face. In other words one simple way is that he's just saying if you can make that much effort to go see him when you get there you'll probably you might have a mind ready to hear basically the same thing I'm just telling you.

[36:37]

That's one way to understand it. Actually when you were saying that I was wondering if there are any sort of like is all the stories about were there any like travel tales like in between what happens to these guys? Well like like Dragon Pond stories he hears about these Zen people he has this mission in mind and he meets a lady on the way and then he so he's already primed you know for what he wants to talk about by this lady who is probably a disciple of the teacher so that's one I can think of. Yeah He asked are there travel tales you know like when one teacher sends a student to another person are there stuff that happens on the way and I said that one story about Deshan where he meets he's a Deshan or Tokusan De means virtue

[37:39]

virtue mountain or Tokusan in Japanese so he he himself is a master of the Diamond Sutra he's going to go down and destroy these Zen heretics on the way to the Zen heartland which is Hunan he's going to he's coming from Sichuan he's coming down and on the way in the mountains he meets this lady who sells tea cakes who's probably been studying with one of the Zen people and she asks him about what he's got on his back he said it was the Diamond Sutra and she sort of cuts him to shreds and sent him off to the Zen teacher and he's already been primed by that to to do very well when he finally meets the teacher another example is the sixth patriarch before he was the sixth patriarch he hears about the Diamond Sutra also in southern China and he has various things happen to him on the way he heads off to see the fifth patriarch but on his way he gets delayed you know by various teaching activities himself and then after a while recovers and continues so I think there are

[38:40]

stories like that so in a sense the traveling is a way it's immersion in preaching of non-sentient beings exactly that's great so I saw Leon with his hand there who else was up I don't remember you don't remember it question ok Charles is the teaching of insentient beings anything more than just insentient beings nothing more and nothing less that's fine or a saint either a saint or a non-sentient being I think they're saying that a sentient being in a sense doesn't hear it because as soon as

[39:40]

a sentient being hears it a sentient being becomes a non-sentient being or you become a saint one or the other yes that which is hearing it is hearing it all the time that's why we should enjoy and not get in the way of our non-sentientness which is hearing the Dharma all the time our non-sentientness is non-sentientness one kind of non-sentientness is walls and tiles right another kind of non-sentientness is the fact that a living being is a living being ok that's not a living being that's the suchness of a living being and that's what here is the Dharma and that's what is teaching the Dharma right but it can be obscured well yeah I mean if we attribute such if we attribute inherent existence to things then we get involved in dependent co-arising birth and death and that blocks

[40:41]

or can block our awareness of just what we are and that's what here is the Dharma and that hears the Dharma and preaches the Dharma back and forth right so that's our practice is just to sit there and be what we are that's what here is the Dharma and that's also what preaches the Dharma meantime sentient beings are there saying there is this and there is that there is this kind of understanding that really exists and there really is this kind of misunderstanding which really exists there really there's this kind of wrong doing which really exists and there's this kind of right doing which really exists okay this is called sentient life or being a sentient being now Arhats or saints they don't get they don't have that problem they break through that but they only do it personally which is a big which is this big problem we don't want to do that because then we can't help people because we're not like people right so we Bodhisattvas we have to be careful

[41:44]

because it's a strong temptation for us to you know get a personal realization and have a great time for ourselves but then we'd be less effective it's not that easy a temptation to take advantage of anyway but it is a temptation that we are warned against okay yes what is it about the personal realization what is it about the personal realization of the saints that prevents them from teaching the Dharma well I don't know if I should get into belittling them I don't feel good about that because the saints are unbelievably wonderful spiritual creatures you know so I'd rather if you don't mind I'd rather turn away from talking about how small they are to talk how big a Buddha is okay what are Buddhas like Buddhas are beings which for you know basically eternity have dedicated themselves to the welfare of other beings

[42:44]

and the reason part of the reason why they do that is because they understand that that's what Buddhas do so Buddhas do what Buddhas do and Buddhas always have this vast vow and vast dedication and no limit on the practices they do or the skills they try to acquire or the people they try to save right that's the school that's the Zen school right so it's the whole orientation of the Buddha Dharma of the Buddha vehicle is so much bigger than personal realization that the personal realization is simply just not on the chart it's just we don't have anything to do with it except we've sort of worn ourselves against thinking that way which is very easy for us so we have to keep orienting ourselves towards this vast practice of being concerned for the welfare of all beings rather than being concerned whether we understand and this orientation is in order that we will become a Buddha we want to become a Buddha

[43:45]

so that we can work for the benefit of all so then we practice like Buddhas practice and Buddhas never try to get personal realization they're only always concerned to do what Buddhas do and what have Buddhas done they do these infinite practices they have these infinite concerns they just never even never they're concerned with each individual being but they don't turn back and look at their own personal trip so rather than get into what the problems of that are just say that basically the Bodhisattva message the Zen school message is it's better to be in hell than to be a saint far better and also even if you become a saint you can easily go to hell anyway so it's not that safe to be a saint anyway even though again we worship these saints Bodhisattvas worship saints and pay respects to saints saints are definitely incredibly worthy beings that's why we shouldn't belittle them all at all because to belittle the saints is to belittle

[44:46]

the triple treasure the saints are part of the triple treasure it's just that we must not turn away from our vows which are the vows that all Buddhas had if we want to realize the Bodhisattva way we have to head towards being a Buddha so rather than belittle the other path I just would direct you back to the Bodhisattva vows which are what Buddhas do think about Buddhas Buddhas activity and don't put down other activities and Buddhas activity is not and then consider to help people you mean you don't understand why a sentient being can't hear the Dharma is that what you mean even a sentient being who has a wonderful occupation of being a Bodhisattva well I guess you're just saying that that what is it

[45:49]

I guess part of what we're saying is that enlightenment is not a conscious experience okay basically it's something that happens all the time it is what is happening all the time but it's not a conscious experience not something grasped by your consciousness that's what a sentient being is okay however the nature of consciousness the suchness of consciousness is the hearing of the Dharma it is the preaching of the Dharma it is the realization of the Dharma it is the dependantly co-arisen nature of awakening the nature of consciousness is the dependantly co-arisen nature of consciousness and that is the nature of awakening but that's not a sentient being that's not a consciousness it is the nature of consciousness Yeah, constantly, vigorously, incandescently, uninterruptedly, it's always happening.

[47:02]

And so we conscious beings are instructed by the tradition to pay respect to the awakening that's happening all the time, all over the place, and not get in the way, and also don't deny your personal human reality either. The more you deny your personal human reality, the more you show you don't really believe that this wonderful thing is happening all the time, and that you have to fix up your personal human thing in order for reality to be right. But our human activity doesn't scratch at all the nature of suchness. As a matter of fact, our human activity as such is exactly what suchness is, but that's not a sentient being. And bodhisattvas are those who head on this path of realizing the way of non-sentient

[48:04]

beings hearing the Dharma rather than a person hearing a Dharma of non-sentient beings. So there is this special kind of trick that you can do called personally realizing this, hearing this Dharma, which is wonderful, it is really great, but it is not the path of the Buddha, and nobody seems to be arguing about that. And the people who practice the Buddha way and the bodhisattvas have great respect for those who manage to attain this great spiritual fruit. It is a great attainment, they actually do, but we stay away from that because we're on this bodhisattva path. So bodhisattvas don't cop out to this personal realization, they're heading for the realization of suchness, which is what Buddha's head for and is much more useful to help people because it's non-dual and you're in the same ballpark with people. Saints are not in the same ballpark, they're in another realm from ordinary people and

[49:06]

they're not so useful according to Mahayana Buddhism. I think Charles was next, I'm not sure, I mean Charlie. In effect, it's similar to that same personal realization, the realization of suchness, and it's inevitable that they will use technology. Well again, the Mahayana teaching is that there is a kind of what we call all knowledge, sarvajna, that arhats have. They do understand everything. And there's another level of realization called sarva-marga-jna, that's what bodhisattvas have. So bodhisattvas understand, have all knowledge of all the paths. Arhats don't. They do have a real understanding, that's why we actually do respect them. They are enlightened. They don't understand the path of other beings, they don't understand what helps people, they

[50:06]

don't have the knowledge of the paths by which other beings will be helped, which bodhisattvas develop. And then the Buddhas have what's called sarva-akara-jna. They have the knowledge of all the paths, from all the modes, from every angle, and those are the beings, that's what we're heading towards in the bodhisattva path, towards a total, you know, which is not personal. It's the mind of all beings in its true awakeness, and that's what the bodhisattvas are heading towards, along the way we do the best we can. And we might even become arhats, but the thing about arhats is they tend in this lifetime to stop, because they're complete. So that's the danger of that. And that's what part of what, you know, like case 11 of the book of Serenity is about,

[51:07]

is this, you know, various sicknesses of where the light doesn't circulate completely, but it circulates a lot, you know, where you can get some attainment and stop there. Bodhisattvas never stop. Yes? Without the gloves on too. Are there any stories of becoming saints and then realizing the bodhisattva path? Well, let's see, the first one that comes to mind just in, you know, the way it came up was in the Lotus Sutra. The Lotus Sutra is a parable of the magical city. So the parable there is that the Buddha teaches people, and those who do not want to do the bodhisattva path, who want to have personal realization, they create this magical city, you know, and they say, which is arhatship, and they say, come on, you don't want to be

[52:08]

a bodhisattva, huh? Like, it's just like, you want to be a bodhisattva? Well, it's just like, it's over there. Where? Well, we can't see it. But there is this magical city, they say, come on over here. So they walk up and they hit the magical city, and then the guide says, the Buddha says, well, actually, this is just actually a way station. It's going to be a nice one. As you can see, it's fantastic, actually. But we actually, you're out in the middle of the ocean now, and we have to go. So come on. And with the encouragement of that great rest stop, and also that it's about as far back now as infinity anyway, they can't really regress now that they're so enlightened, then the Buddha pulls them out of the magical city, and the Buddha tells them in the Lotus Sutra, you guys can make it. You actually, I can see now, you're going to be a Buddha. And the arhats go, wow, that's great. Let's go for it, you know. But they wouldn't, he couldn't tell them that right away. They wouldn't believe it. They had to get to the magical city first. Then he tells them that they can, he makes this great prediction, and they can believe it. Which is similar to the story of the young man who gets lost.

[53:12]

He can't believe his parents are his parents. You know, he has to shovel shit for a long time until he can believe he's really the child of these great people. So there's an art story, kind of. So there's some that don't have to make the stop. Well, yeah. Most, a lot of Zen students are willing to, you know, go for the impossible right off. They're that stupid. A lot of other ones won't do it, and they actually confess. Some people come and say, you know, I'm not a bodhisattva, I want to be an arhat. I want to personally, they say, you can stay here too. I mean, it's no problem. The arhatship naturally overflows into bodhisattvahood. But when you think about it, you've got to be careful, because although it naturally overflows, you still shouldn't say, well, since it naturally overflows, I think I'll go over and hang out there. No. Don't do that. But if you're there, then overflow, and go on to, you know, the next bigger level of concern. Yes? Is the story of Baizhang driving the monks out and saying, what is it, and entering

[54:16]

the realm, is that sentient beings responding or insentient beings responding? Well, the fact of them being what they are is insentient beings. Them consciously turning around is sentient beings. He did? Stuart's next, I think. I don't want to be in the position of saying what nobody else says, but it seems to me in some respects that the story of the historical figure, Shakyamuni, that he went on a quest for personal enlightenment and was personally enlightened.

[55:18]

What happened? Spider. Oh, a spider? Yeah, well, there's different interpretations then. I would say that he was not personally enlightened. His enlightenment was nothing but him being suchness, and as a result of his suchness, he realized that all beings were enlightened. That was basically the content. Also, the idea is that he, for many lifetimes, dedicated himself to the welfare of others to get to be in a position where he did personally realize it's true, but it wasn't a personal realization. Is there then a personal realization? There really isn't, but those who have that kind of understanding, in other words, those who think that whose realization is not seen as, by them, the realization of all beings, then that's a personal realization, which can be fantastic. So on a personal level, you can personally see that this matter is not personal? Yes, and you can also personally set out to do it personally, whereas bodhisattvas don't

[56:30]

personally set out to do it personally, they personally set out to do it for other beings. But bodhisattvas have realizations that are, you know, incredibly superior sometimes to that of these saints, who know more than they do in a way. So there are these bodhisattvas who have appeared in the world who have these wonderful realizations, just, you know, they're really enlightened, and they're living, walking around, stuff like that, and Buddha himself was one of them. But the arhats, his disciples who were arhats for a long time, supposedly, never expected to be Buddhas, and then later in Mahayana they were told, in the Mahayana scriptures, that they can be Buddhas too. Buddha was an arhat also, he did that as part of the deal. But bodhisattvas usually do not become arhats as part of the deal. Now, we could switch over to the other part of the program now, and thereby indulge my

[57:35]

program, or we could ruin my program right off and continue talking about this case. But I think I would be willing to switch, if you guys would be willing to switch over to talking about this third precept. Can we do it? I like your program, I would encourage you. Okay, so here goes the third precept. You know the third precept? It is often translated as no sexual misconduct or not misusing sex, or not misusing sexuality. In the text on Zen precepts, it's called no sexual greed. It's the third precept. And I would just quickly gloss a bunch of other ways of saying it, just to start off. I would say that it's no sexual selfishness, or no sexual ugliness, or no sexual impurity.

[58:43]

No sexual impurity. Okay? I look dumbfounded by that. No? What happened? No sexual impurity. Oh, impurity. What did you think I said? I would just say right off that, you know, Buddha nature is the true nature of sex. Sex is not itself a problem. I mean, it's a problem, but it's not... No matter what, it's a problem. It's a problem for Buddhas too. It's a problem for Buddha nature. So Buddha nature is basically the true nature of sex.

[59:47]

That's what I start out with saying. But sexual greed is a problem. Sexual ugliness, sexual selfishness, that's the problem. And it's, you know, there it is. We're not supposed to be sexually selfish, sexually greedy, sexually indulgent, sexually ugly. But it's sexually ugly. Oh, that's what I'll explain. That's what I'll explain. So, as I've been discussing in the last few classes, you know, about evil and stuff, I think we should study evil, study sin, find out what these precepts are about. You know, our practice is beyond good and bad, but we should know what good and bad are. And... Somebody said, for example, that what is caused by delusion is delusion, you know.

[60:47]

Birth and death is birth and death. And it's really a pain. And what is caused by delusion is all bad. Birth and death is said to be, by certain people, all bad. It's just a bummer, completely. There's nothing good about it. So, this being so, if sexual activity or sex was caused by delusion or by... was part of birth and death, then sex would be all bad too. But then, Buddhas in the three worlds would not have been born. Sex is not necessarily caused by delusion. As a matter of fact, sex is not caused by delusion. The nature of sex is suchness, and Buddhas are born from that. Sex is not all bad. Birth and death is all bad.

[61:50]

On the other hand, if you say, or if we say, that sexual activity itself is the way, still you should remember that if people of the world of birth and death commit sexual misconduct, this is a fault of breaking the precept. And gives rise to results which last and block the way to emancipation. Now, if you say that sexuality or sexual activity is not the way, and you refrain completely from sexual activity, and don't understand that all wrongdoing is avoided, then you cannot be freed from birth and death, and you're not keeping this precept. If you say that sexual activity is not the way, you're not keeping this precept.

[63:01]

And if you say that sexuality is the way, you're not keeping this precept. If you say it's not, and avoid it entirely, that's okay, as long as you understand that there's no such thing as wrongdoing. But if you hold to that sexuality is not the way, and avoid it, you're breaking this precept. Similarly, if you say that sexuality is the way, and you do any kind of misconduct based on birth and death, it really is a big problem. So, people are cautioned about sex, because sex is also the root of all delusion, and is the root of our life of wandering in birth and death. But it's also the root of suchness. So, with that introduction, I'd like to read you what Dogen said, which I think you have copies of.

[64:19]

What did you just read from? That was from the commentary on this. I read that first, though. Okay, so Dogen says, this is Kyoju Kaimon, he says, Because the three wheels are pure, nothing is to be wished for. All Buddhas are on the same path. Because the three wheels are pure, nothing is to be wished for, all Buddhas are on the same path. Okay, the three wheels are body, speech and mind. Because body, speech and mind, those karmic wheels are pure, nothing is to be wished for, and all Buddhas are on the same path. Now, pure in this case, means the fruit of awakening, and also not being attached to this fruit of awakening,

[65:25]

is true purity. This purity is beyond the duality of purity and defilement. The pure Dharma is not in contrast to impurity. We cleanse earth, water, fire, air and emptiness with earth, water, fire, air and emptiness, respectively. This is how we understand the word pure here. Receiving Buddha nature means Buddha nature receives Buddha nature.

[66:37]

This being so, what we call men and women make Buddha nature their body, make Buddha nature their speech, make Buddha nature their mind. In this way the three wheels are pure. That means to purify the body with the body, to purify speech with speech, to purify mind with mind. And if we intend to purify one of these wheels with anything other than themselves, this is not purifying. So I feel like this instruction is pretty good,

[67:43]

and I feel it's very much to the point of what Zazen is. I don't know if you feel it's extremely helpful in terms of understanding the precept of no selfish or greedy sexuality, but again, I would say again that what's being said here is that you use the body to purify the body, speech to purify the speech, and mind to purify mind, and don't use anything else to purify it. Use water to purify water, fire to purify fire, earth to purify earth, emptiness to purify emptiness. This is what purity means. Yeah? Would you use birth and death to purify birth and death?

[68:44]

Would you use birth and death to purify birth and death? Somehow I wouldn't say that, because, you know, earth is not pure birth and death. Fire is not birth and death. You can make fire birth and death. That's right. You don't have to say that, though. You don't have to say that that's a good thing about birth and death. Birth and death is where you wake up

[69:47]

and also say there's no Buddhas if there's not birth and death. Birth and death is what causes Buddhas to appear, so you can say, well, that's a good thing about birth and death. But the people that are awakened because of birth and death causes them to be awake, don't say there's anything good about birth and death. In fact, they say there's something bad about it. They do say there's something bad about it, though, although they don't say there's anything good about it. But I can see how you would say that. Wasn't there something good about it? Because this is where we... I can see that. But I think there's something... It's not like birth and death is a place. Birth and death is when you take earth, fire, water, when you take body, speech, or mind, and then instead of using them to purify them, you use them as a place to say this exists. That's birth and death. So birth and death is basically a distraction from your work

[70:50]

of purifying your karma. So rather than go around saying, okay, we got body, so we're going to do this with the body or that with the body, or not this or not that, that we're going to make... or we're going to do this or that with sexuality, rather it says use the body to purify the body. And don't use anything else but the body. And the body that you use is always this particular body right now. It's not a general body. You just use this body to purify the body. You just use this speech to purify speech. You just use this mind to purify mind. And you don't use anything else. But birth and death, you very kindly made a face, a birth and death face there. Birth and death wants to do something with body. Birth and death wants to purify the body rather than use the body to purify the body. Don't you purify wanting to do something with the body rather than wanting to do something with the body?

[71:52]

Could you say that louder? Don't you purify wanting to purify? You said birth and... The definition of birth and death you gave was birth and death is wanting to purify the body using something other than the body. Well, actually, I did say that. That's true. But before that, I said something better. I said birth and death is when you you take the body and you attribute inherent existence to it. Then based on that, you want to mess around with it. You want to jack it up or push it down or fix it or whatever rather than just use it for realization right now, flat out. However, you're also right when you... that little example you gave but the example you gave was the example of body. I mean mind. And you should use that mind example you gave use that one to purify the mind. So if you... when the mind goes... when the mind, based on birth and death wants to do some kind of fancy trick with itself then use that mind there

[72:53]

to purify that mind there. Don't use any other mind than that diluted one right there to purify itself. Again, I can think what's difficult that I'm having with this. It has something to do with if everything is Buddha nature then it seems like we're making this little category this little category called birth and death. It's not quite that everything is Buddha nature. It's that the nature of everything is Buddha. Everything itself as such is Buddha nature. But illusion is not Buddha nature. What illusion is the nature of what illusion is is that illusion is illusion. Illusion... the fact that illusion is illusion implies that illusion is not illusion. That is suchness and that is Buddha nature. So that's why you use the fact of earth being earth, body being body breath being breath, speech being speech

[73:55]

mind being mind in its particularity every moment you use that and that only to purify those things. Because it includes it not. Well, that's one of the encouragements that it includes that that it liberates you. Once you do that you're liberated from it and then you're liberated from purity and impurity. It's beyond purity and impurity. That's what we mean by purity and you're also liberated from the purity and that purity you're also liberated from you're not attached from that realization either. And that's what's meant by and that's also what makes possible not greedy sex. This is the instruction also specifically for sexual activity. This actually has a practical application. Thanks. It's a little after 8.20 and we're going to read some session admonitions.

[74:56]

Are you guys ready to hear some session admonitions? Huh? Okay. So, do you understand it? What? I use this mind to purify this mind. There you go. Okay. So, are you guys ready to hear some some heady words from the Chuso? From our sweet Chuso? If you don't want to hear we can do it some other time when you're in the mood. Maybe after Sashin sometime.

[75:46]

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