No question? What's the world? What is the world? Are we studying the world of dharmas here? In Chapter 3? What diamonds are being discussed here? Are those diamonds? They are? How many diamonds are there? Enumerable? How many diamonds are there? Jim? What?

[01:07]

We're studying chapter 3 of this book, okay? In this book, how many dharmas are there, Klaus? In this top dharma quotient, how many dharmas? Yes? Do you think there's some more that they didn't mention? So are we studying dharmas in these chapters? Are dhatus dharmas? What? What do you think, Robert? Are dhatus dharmas? Why aren't they? Richard Jaffe, why aren't Datu's dharmas?

[02:22]

I think Robert's right, which he may not be, but... And what's the difference between a dharma and a dhatu besides the fact that a dhatu contains lots of dharmies, perhaps? What does a dhatu lack that dharma has, according to the Savastavadhan? What do you want to answer? Yes, that's very important. So you can understand a dharma has a sphala-oxjana. That's all dharma is in the Svalakshin.

[03:35]

Dharma is what supports Svalakshin. Or dharmas have, they are characterized as Svalakshin or they also have Svabhava. Okay? They have their own characteristic. What characteristic of a dhatu? It has no only being. According to this Vastava, it has no own mark. You can't say what you can't say. So in this chapter, we're not actually studying dharmas in chapter 3. We're studying the world. The world of dharmas is not the world. The world of dharmas is called what? this is samsara. The world of dharma is called dharmadhatu.

[04:38]

The realm of dharma. Dharmas are in the dharmadhatu, not the world. Dhamadhatu is not the world. However, it's not like the dharmadhatu is over here and the world is over there. It's that when you see the world, the triple world as the dharmadhatu, you don't see samsara anymore, according to the other dharmas. You're starting to see the way an enlightened person sees. But we're not studying dharmas in this chapter. We studied them before. Now we're studying the world, the mundane world. We're looking at the mundane world. Okay? Not dharmas. However, we... supposedly know what dharmas are. So, when we look at the mundane world, we say, oh, this is not dharmas that I'm looking at. This is illusion.

[05:42]

So we're studying illusion. And we study this chapter. And in chapter four, on karma, we find out how the dharmas work together to create this illusion of the world. So why are we studying delusion or an illusory phantom creation called the Triple World? Why are we studying this? Because we think we live in it. And why are we studying what we think we live in?

[06:45]

What's the point of that? Yes? If the best place to start, we're going to go after that. And how would that be? Would that be good or not? Isn't this interesting? Okay, that's a good place to start. So what else is good about it besides a good place to start? It's the way we think. But what's good about studying the way we think? What's good about showing us how our mind works? We suffer in this world, so we want to study it so we can find out the cause of the suffering which we experience in it.

[07:59]

So as the Gendro Koan says, Buddhas are those who are greatly enlightened about delusion, or in the midst of delusion, they're awakened. So Buddhas study delusion at the field of their study. They study the world. In the process of studying the world, they find out, first of all, that the world is actually composed of dharmas. Second of all, they find out these dharmas have no nature of their own in the after all. And then they find out that everything's fine. Or rather, finding out that everything is fine is just simply seeing that these dharmas which compose the world really aren't really there so substantially. That's what makes everything fine. When you are seeing things that way, there's no problem anymore. And yet it doesn't, it has no separation from the world. So what you're doing in this class is now you're tuning into the world in this chapter, and then as you understand the world as you see it, or this story of the world, then you start to bring your abhidharma, your dharmic mind, overlay it or underlay this world, and it starts to come apart.

[09:22]

isn't very interesting, by the way. The world was interesting. The dharmas which really are happening are not so interesting. So we have to interest ourselves in something which is less interesting from the point of view of what we're in. We dreamed up the world because we like it. Now we have to dream up another world which we don't like as much, which we used to see, but which we've left because it wasn't so jazzy and we didn't have so much control over it. And then after that, we have to go to an even less interesting world where we won't be able to do anything. We'll have no power. So we have to convince ourselves that we want the power of being in a world where we have no power, which is called Buddha power. But it's not a power to push things around because there's nothing to push around. It's a power to be free of stuff. And it's a power they're fought by to help other people be free of stuff. which turns out to be the most fun of all, but it's not fun in the old terms, which is a bit of a problem.

[10:30]

That's why we're studying chapter three, among other reasons. One way is you trick yourself into... First of all, you... You trick yourself into... It's not trick. First of all, you notice, like I mentioned in the lecture last week, you notice you start to enjoy good karma at some point. You sort of catch on that being cooperative with people actually is kind of nice. doesn't have a certain drama that being uncooperative does. You know, you don't have the police cars coming, fire engines driving up, and the walls aren't turning hot, but it has its nice in a way, you know.

[11:47]

So you sort of start digging good karma rather than bad karma, and it's retribution. Then, as a result of eons of good karma, of enjoying good karma, you have the opportunity to run into a Buddha, to see a Buddha. And when you see a Buddha, you have the, because of your good karma, you, uh, or hear the Buddha Dharma, you know, you're walking through the, walking through the dusty world, kicking up dust in the, in the marketplace, and somebody chanting the diamond future open one of the side booths, you know. And you go, wait, that, that's pretty interesting. So if you see how, it's sort of, it's very beautiful. So the Dharma, it turns out that the Dharma, on certain surfaces of it, are very attractive to beings that are involved in harmony and getting along in the world quite well. So you hear the Dharma, or you see a Buddha, and you say, gee, that's really neat stuff. And then they tell you, and it also occurs to you that you'd like to be around that kind of vision or that kind of thing more, and they tell you how to do it.

[12:56]

And they'd say, oh, you should study Abhidharma or something like that. And by the way, in order to study Abhidharma, you have to really get into it, not just have it be scholarly, you have to do meditation. Not necessarily you have to, but a lot of people have to. You may already be quite concentrated. Like Sixth Patriarch was, you know, he was already doing, he was already quite concentrated when he was walking, he even heard that. But a lot of people, they just have moments where they hit the middle and see something very attractive about Buddhism. And then they go... And then they sort of... They're afraid they're going to lose it. So then they become upset and they say, how can I get back that Buddha I just saw a second ago? Where'd that Buddha go? Who was that Buddha? And they say, oh, that Buddha... That Buddha... lives up the hill or something and he sits all day or something like that.

[13:59]

You can go sit with him if you want to. So then you go sit. And then the Buddha keeps telling you that actually if you want to be as happy as the Buddha is and as cute as the Buddha is, you should start seeing dharmas. In other words, you should sit and examine what's happening to you. You should turn the light backward and notice whether you're angry or depressed or excited or calm. Examine the dharma. They may or may not tell you to study avidharma. It depends on where you are at the time. In fact, everybody has to study avidharma. Systematically or unsystematically, you have to study. You have to look back and see what's happening. And if you see what's happening, you see dharma. The first thing you'll see, besides the assumptions you have about what's going on, the first step back will be the beginnings of avidharma. So the first step back is to notice your body. Oh, I've got a body, okay. The next step back is to know what you're feeling. The next step back is to know consciousness.

[15:02]

The next step back is to know dharmas, the four foundations of mindfulness. And when you know dharmas, the next step is to let go of the liberation which comes with seeing that world of truth. At each step, you're encouraged by the people who are very attractive to you. They keep saying, look where your feet are. They just, you know, stand up straight or sit still. And because they're very attractive, you say, okay, I'll do it. Or because you trust them, you do it. Or because you feel good around them, you do it. Just because they're doing it, so you're willing to sit like they do. So this is the director who said, come on. I sit in the morning, come and sit with me. He said, I want to study Zen. He says, I sit in the morning, come and sit with me. Or you may come and sit with me. But people came into that. They said, well, what book should we read? He said, read Central Conception in Buddhism.

[16:04]

The teaching of Dharma. The first book he taught. He didn't say to read Hekugan Voku. He didn't say to read Bluetooth records or Zen stuff. He said to read Hobbit Garni. Because Zen stuff is actually not Usually what's in Zen material is not Abhidharma teaching. It's already way up there, you know, way along the way. These monks have already been looking, studying Abhidharma for years and years in these stories. And what the teacher is talking about is probably letting go of their deep understanding of Abhidharma. They understand exactly what anger is, exactly what concentration is. He says, it's not concentration. Samadhi, they lose their... Samadhi loses its own being in these stories. Wisdom loses its own being. Faith loses its own being in many of these stories. So, he didn't recommend people read those stories.

[17:08]

He lectured on them, but he recommended that people study Abhijama. So, by encouragement from others. And then, when we see how others encourage us, then we duplicate their encouragement. Remember that they encouraged us to study, to turn to this world. This is the world of liberation, the Dharma Dattu. And then the world beyond the Dharma Dattu. You know? The world beyond form and emptiness. So, the teachers encourage us to study this and then we encourage ourselves to study it and continue to encourage ourselves. Because it's somehow... it's tied up with something that's more attractive than even the usual attractive thing, even more attractive. And yet, you can't say by worldly standards why it's so attractive. Vicky Rushdie, I mean, some of it seems often good-looking. But, from a certain angle, we don't know.

[18:12]

Some people maybe didn't think he was so good-looking. Like sometimes if you're riding the car behind him and you see his head bobbing around you. I mean, just at the surface, you know, it wasn't that much more interesting than anybody else's head. But yet he was... Somehow you were attracted to it. There was something attractive about the way he lived. So you could just copy it. And copying it brings you into... turns out, brings you into worlds that aren't very interesting. The cop, you want to do it, and yet when you actually do it, it's not very interesting. And then you just say, why am I doing this thing? How did I get in the middle of this sushi? What am I doing here? Say, oh yeah, I read a story about this guy, or this girl, and they were sitting, and it looked really neat. I thought, gee, that sounds neat.

[19:13]

Now I'm trying it, and it's not so neat. I thought before it would be. Why do you think of what? Well... And you can't remember. And then you remember. Meantime, you're sort of in the middle of it. It's hard to back up. But then you remember. Forget. Then you remember. Forget. When you remember 24 hours a day, there's no way to distinguish yourself from the full enlightened Buddha. When you remember for one moment, at that moment you're just like a Buddha. But then the next moment, you're just exactly the opposite of a Buddha, because you think so. And if you're the opposite of Buddha, that's exactly what you think. So then you're here, chapter 3, OK? So then students, or any kind of Buddhist, their primary job is to hear the teaching, clarify the teaching,

[20:15]

So here's the teaching, this is part of the teaching, Abhidharmakosha. Now we're clarifying this teaching here in this class, okay? And I'm trying to help you qualify, I'm trying to encourage you to hear it, encourage you to read it, encourage you to clarify and understand these things. But from then on, it's for you to re-encourage yourself, okay? So hearing it, shruktamaya prajna, studying, clarifying, and encouraging, philosophically encouraging about why it's so good to study this rather than but the ongoing encouragement to remember and meditate on it again and again and remember this world. This is Bhavanamaya Prajna, and this is basically what we have to do for ourselves, by ourselves, and we're not going to get reminded. Other people can help us with the hearing. You know, right now I'm talking.

[21:18]

Right now there's words here in the paper. But the cultivation, the actual practice, that's where we teach about that. We have to do that part of encouragement ourselves. Okay? So, shall we study the abdha-dham-kosha a little bit more here? I think we... I don't exactly remember where we are, but I think we're about... Oh, is that? Yeah, that's what I think, too. Which is Tarka... 5A, 6A, yeah? the problem on the ground that says all these initiatives Yeah.

[22:28]

Does that start from the common level and then become a death penalty? Or do the initial I don't think that Um, so So, by the way, just another little point here is that

[23:28]

In the first paragraph on chapter 6, the last sentence or two, it says, in the middle of the paragraph it says, these actions of body, voice, and thought, okay, torturous, corrupt, tainted actions, habits, retribution, infernal rupas, vinyanas, samyas, samskaras, and vinyanas. All right? What does that mean? Close? That's alright. I'm glad we found out that you didn't know. So that you can ask. Now, I'll read that again, okay? You got it? Okay. These actions are body, voice, okay? And mind. Infernal rupas and so on. Could you comment on that sentence, please? guess who I asked you to comment on it?

[24:50]

You of all people? Actually, they're not dharmas. They're groups of dharmas. These are groups of dharmas, okay? So, in the three worlds, okay? In the Kamadatu, alright? One of the destinies is a Kamandatra. See, each of the destinies also are not dharmas. But in the destinies, the destinies are defined by skandhas, which are groups of dharmas. All right? So you define hell by dharmas. You tell how hell is by dharmas. And hell has different five skandhas, which are composed of different things that are in those five skandhas in hell. than there are in those five skandhas, in heaven, and so on. Okay? And then it said, when this retribution is realized, there is what we call infernal being, or infernal being meaning an infernal person, informal being, but also it means being infernal, or hell.

[26:08]

Okay? Hell is a kind of being called infernal. It's five skandas, okay? Venerable one, outside these five dharmas, these five skandas, one cannot prove the existence of any infernal beast. There's no such thing as hell outside of five skandas. Okay? So hell is not outside of five skandas. It's five skandas. That is to say... that the infernal being does not exist outside the five diamonds which are retribution, thus unstained and undefined. Okay. Now, what did you want to know about? That this thesis does not agree with the Declaration? And what do you want to know? I want to go back to the first paragraph. Yes. And therefore, the retribution being.

[27:42]

Or in other words, the Yoga Charlie thing is that if you imagine that, if now you imagine that you did certain things, then you feel yourself to be in a certain place. If you think, if you think, if you imagine that you murdered someone, you will find yourself in hell. Okay? Yeah, so... Anushayas, you see, are the latent places, alright? So now, because of your act in karma, once again I said there's three views on this about... active and active and so on, but this is the vaibhoshika position you're hearing now, okay?

[28:44]

In the gutti, the gutti is neutral, okay? The gutti is just, there you are, just tortured, okay? You're just, oh, guh. Alright? This is hell. There's a latent equation there. They're not active because you're just sort of wiped out by the torturousness of the way you think. You're not really getting in there and really being torturous. You're not really going... You're just going... You're experiencing the effects, so to speak, or the result of that way of thinking. In other words, you're feeling what it's like to be angry rather than just being angry. You're into the feeling or experiencing side. If, when you were angry, you could at the same time experience what it was like to be angry rather than sort of doing the anger, that's what retribution of anger is, you see? Whenever you're angry, actually there's a feeling associated with it.

[29:48]

Positive, negative, or neutral. But if, at the moment of being anger, instead of emphasizing the anger, you emphasize the experience of anger, then that's the result of anger. So what we usually experience as the result of anger is actually that you're still angry, in a sense. But you're more emphasizing the receiving of the experience of anger, rather than doing it. So that's the result of anger. Okay? So, when you're in a vati, you're into the result or the experiencing of the kind of karma. And in that experiencing state, you're not really, you know, really working out directly. In some clear direction, you're not working the karma out. You're more like just, uh, hell, just, uh, heaven, uh. you know, whatever it is. And that, in all those guttis, there's latent clashes, okay, which are latent partly by what you just did actively, and other ones which are latent from other things which you imagine you've done.

[30:53]

So for all your imagined karma of the past, you have these seeds of defilement in the present, but they're not active, all right? In the gutti, they're not topping. But they're present, and they're developing. So when you come out of the gutsy, you can go right back into the same thing again. But people can go... They keep doing that if they wish. But in the resultant phase of the hatred, you experience the inertia of further hatred, but also further... So you can also... You can have all your different patterns. You can go... anger to hell, and in hell you have the latent questions for anger, for lust, and attachment, for various kinds of confusion. And so you can go from the gutti, you can go into more anger, more attachment, and more confusion.

[31:55]

You can go into lust, then you go from there, instead of hell, you go into hungry ghosts. In hungry ghosts you have all the questions, but then from hungry ghosts you can go into anger again and go back into hell. You have all these possibilities. You have the possibility of getting yourself in trouble later in any of the gutties. You're all set to go into any of the other gutties. Of course, you go into the intermediate realm first, which is nice. Okay, so that's what that's about. Anything else? No. Ecclesiastes aren't manifest in any of the destinies because the destinies are situations where ecclesiastes are subdued. In other words, you're not into the active raging aspect of your delusion.

[33:01]

You're into sort of feeling what it's like to be deluded. You're sort of tasting delusion rather than sort of whomping it up. bang it out. Okay? That's the characteristic of all gut teeth. But hell being the result of anger, which is somehow a little bit rougher than attachment. Attachment's a little bit not so bad. Better to be attached in anger in some way because hell is such the heaviest, you know? Hell is so heavy that it kind of crushes your consciousness. It really damages it. So, it, uh... Well, actually, you'll see that the other... other states of war also, consciousness is damaged. In the Vidyana's 50th section. Yep.

[34:04]

What realm? What do you mean by realm? What word is that in Sanskrit? What dhatu are you in when you're doing what? Which action do you meet? See, if you're talking about which dhatu you're in, then you should say specifically what dharma you meet. So which dharma do you meet? Do you mean anger? Which anger do you meet? In Sanskrit. Okay. Please. What doctor are you in if you have code? Common doctors. How do you know? Huh? You don't know? You guessed? No. A jack? Yeah.

[35:05]

Does not entirely. He's a jack nappler too. And? No. Because the self-conscious contacted in Rupa.2. There's no anger in the Rupadattu, and what he said is true. There's no anger in the Rupadattu, so if there's anger, you know you're in the Kamadattu. But you asked a different question, actually. But that's the answer to that question. Now, do you want to ask another one? Was that the question you asked, by the way?

[36:10]

Was that the kind of answer you wanted? You can tell by the dharmas what realm you're in anyway. If you want to know what realm you're in, just look at the dharmas. By the nature of the dharmas, you know what realm it is. For example, if you see something like color or Cadillac, you know what realm you're in. If you see blue, just blue, nothing but blue, you're in the doctor. If you see Cadillac, you're in the doctor. And if you see no form, you're in the doctor. If you have anger, you know you're in common dhatta. Certain dharmas will tell you. In other dharmas, you can tell you are in the fourth rupajana. You are in the second rupajana. You are in so on. You can tell which dhatta you're in by that. You can also tell what dhatta you're in by the dharmas that are present.

[37:11]

When you hear what the dharmas are, You know the karmic quality of the whole consciousness, plus you know what realm it's in. You can tell by the darkness, always. There's another question which you sort of, you asked, but maybe by accident, you said, when you're actually doing karma, active karma, what realm are you in? And then you say, what realm, what dhatu? What's the answer? What dhat are you in if you're doing active karma? What dhatu is that? What did you say? It could be all three. Active karma occurs in all three. Okay? If you're doing active karma, which gutti are you in? You're not in a gutti. And what's the kind of being that a gutti is called? What's the name of Gatti?

[38:13]

What kind of being is that? What kind of bhava? Infernal bhava? Heavenly bhava? Human bhava? Hungry ghost bhava and animal bhava. These are kinds of bhava. But when karma is active, what kind of bhava do you call that? Karma bhava. Okay? Yes? What? What part are you thinking of? What words make you think that some people think they're more than retribution?

[39:15]

And who are those people? Well, okay. Who do you think they are? Well anyway, what are they, what, what does it make you think they're saying that? What words are they? Where are you reading?

[40:20]

According to another opinion? Yeah. Oh, I see. I'm good. And so, Okay, so another way to look at it now, according to this opinion, is that you do something which projects you into a destiny, okay?

[41:52]

And as you'll see, when you study intermediate existence, the way it actually happens is that you get on some trip, some emotional trip, and you sort of play that out until finally you just say, You give up, you know, finally. You fight and you fight until finally enough people are batting on you. Did any of you see the great Santini? Like when he was fighting with his whole family, you know, first of all, he was trying to beat up his wife. And then, and then his son tries to, his son starts fighting with him. And pretty soon his baby, one of his little, little tiny boy is calling onto his leg, pounding on his leg. And finally, he said, I mean, he could keep fighting, but Luckily, when you see the little kids, everybody's crying. He finally just goes, okay. That actually happens quite often to people, but not that quite that dramatic for you.

[42:59]

So we go on these emotional trips, and we play them and play them until finally it just gets silly, and we just give up. And we slump against the refrigerator. And, okay, so that kind of anger then sends you into, when you give up, you go into intermediate realm. Okay. As you're slumping into the refrigerator, you know. So you go into intermediate realm. And then from there, as you get bored with that, because you can't just, you don't feel sort of comfortable, just sort of, you know, you just had this big scene, right? And now you're slumping down, you're all over the floor crying, you know. And you don't feel comfortable just sitting there just sort of at peace, right? Like just, that happened, huh? Just like nothing, you know, just nowhere.

[44:02]

So you think, well, maybe I should go on somewhere from here. But because of what you were just into, the big battle you had and all this stuff, you're quite likely to choose hell, right? Because you've been thinking such angry thoughts and doing all this angry action, you quite naturally, the only place you can imagine to go is into a state of torment, of feeling, God, what did I do that for? Oh my God, look at this mess. You know? That's a kind of wholesome scene. Nobody got cuttering. But sometimes there's heads on the floor, right? Sometimes it's really horrible. But that's, you know, you don't have to go into hell. can stay interviewed around but sure enough eventually if you think that way the place you choose to go is going to be like that so then you go into hell now this is saying that the hell is not just this other opinion is saying that you go into the hell sure okay and you're not and you don't give rise to active karma the way the karma that existed before the intermediate which now is why you choose hell because you choose hell

[45:16]

You don't have to go to hell, but you want to do something. Because you've been so whomped up, you just can't be at peace. You sort of be uncommitted and just be open. So, you want to get into something again, but you're not ready for active karma. You're just sort of interested. So you go into hell. Now, this school is saying that although you're in hell, you do not do the same kind of... Hell is not the same as that big fight you were in before. It's not the same. There's different situations. But, They're saying, although you won't get really angry in hell, you can get involved in other kinds of khaletias, which are not the cause of it, and therefore are not, you know, part of the scenery that is hell, that you can get involved in khaletias. It says here, you can be in good or soiled. All right? So, in other words... By doing a certain kind of act doesn't necessarily mean a certain... I'm having a little difficulty understanding how you can act in your right, like your example, fight the loose shoes not to go with the help.

[46:42]

What do you follow? If you're actually choosing something, you will choose hell. But if you don't choose, you won't necessarily choose hell, but you could go into hell. You see, depending on what you thought was happening when you were fighting, it depends on how really middle-of-the-road practice you were doing when you were fighting. If you were saying, well, this is not really a fight, then you're violating conventional reality. It is a fight. If you can see, this looks like a fight. It looks very much like a fight. It's got all the characteristics of a fight. But you also know that what it's made out of is ungrateful. And you don't really grasp the situation. Then you go into intermediate realm, but you don't have to go into hell. Because you never really believed that you were fighting in the first place as such. And yet you didn't deny the facts.

[47:43]

then where you go is not set. In other words, when you see what's happening, you're no longer part of the machinery per se. You can go anywhere you want. But if you believe you were really fighting, or if you think you weren't fighting, some people think they're not fighting. They go clubbing, people go, crunch. That's not a fight. If I was fighting, it'd be different. But if they are fighting, and they go right to hell. So whether you know it or not, unless you recognize the conventional realities, Or if you do recognize conventional realities and you think that they're what's happening, you will follow a certain mechanical route. If you deny the conventional realities, you will follow another mechanical route. If you see the conventional reality and also see the parallel world of reality, absolute reality simultaneously, then it's not mechanical anymore. Then you can... Be angry, and the next moment you can be whistling a song and patting people on the back and everybody's happy and just great.

[48:47]

You know, everybody get in a fight, you slump against the TV and everybody laughs. That's how it's possible. But if you take it in a certain way, it's not possible. And it just goes clunk, [...] clunk. It's a powerful machine. It never deviates because your mind is stuck in a root. And you can never, you can't beep. You just go right over there every time. Clunk, clunk. Here I go again. Wow, it's really great. It depends on your mind. If your mind's flexible and not attaching to things, you can be quite free. And if you're really good at it, the world reflects it back. You know? Now, you may, some people think that they're blue. So they get in a fight, and the fight is just kidding. Everybody else is going, ah. Well, they're not just kidding, because they think it helps. and some psychopathic personality like that. That's not quite it. So that's what Victoria was talking about during his speech.

[49:50]

Autotransformation. Until the world reflects your freedom and your flexibility, you're not really flexible. So if you get in a fight with somebody and everybody else isn't laughing and free and happy afterwards, you're not really free either. You fell for it, too, if they don't, if they fall for it. You can't be free without them going along with it. It doesn't work. If they say that was really obnoxious, then you can't say, well, I didn't think so. I mean, I saw, of course, yeah, I was obnoxious, but it wasn't really obnoxious. I mean, I wasn't attached to those dharams. But if they're angry, you are. Okay? Now, this other opinion is saying that when you're in the gutta, you can still give rise to active karma. but it's not the kind that gets you in the gutti. Because if it was, you wouldn't be in the gutti, you'd still be in the active state. But you can be doing other kinds of karma which are not the kind that are there. Okay? And they said, as Sarvastavadhan said, your reasoning applies to the intermediate existence.

[51:00]

which would then be a destiny. Which it isn't. In the intermediate existence, it isn't a destiny. In the intermediate existence, you can give rise to these thoughts, and then these active thoughts really do have some projecting power. They make decisions for you. And it says that that's not so, because Gati implies a destiny. It's someplace you go. So the Savasthavadhan really don't think that you do have active karma in the Gati. But another opinion says you could. But you see, I think, once again, this is the two somewhat rigid positions on the topic. The true story is probably both are possible. From a certain point of view, in the gutty, in the destiny, still you do have latent places. And latent places, you know, under the circumstances, you could see them as active or passive. And that's the point, is that... when you later will see that there's different positions to take on the latent and active, and you'll see why you can play with your idea about whether the, if an anusia is present in health, whether it's active or not.

[52:19]

Some people say that the anusias are klesias. Some people say, no, anusias are different from klesias. The active and the passive state, or the active and the latent state are different. Some people say that the latent is active, and the active is a different kind of active. There's three positions. It's Vastavadan, Theravadan, and Vajabhasaka. So I would say that on this point, yes, some people are saying that there are some, something going on. Vajabhasaka say no. And I think we would be able to see that each position has its merit. The reason why it's possible to have these positions is because dharmas don't have Vajabha anyway. So, although it's nice to try to tack them down, and it's because they're tacked down that they will have built, the tacked-down dharmas are the basis of the world of samsara. But because behind that they're not tacked-down, actually a lot of these interpretations actually have a great deal of flexibility.

[53:20]

So I think that this is another opinion, and we don't need to exclude it, but we should be clear, this is not the vibastic tradition. Okay? Because they say annushayas are not are not active. So then it wouldn't... An Anushaya for soil... Actually, I take... I'm not going to say whether the Vaibhoshikas say the Anushayas are different from the Khyayavastana. active, or whether the Sattrantikas that say that. I can't remember now. Now maybe it's actually the other way around that the Vaibhashikas say they're the same and the Sattrantikas say that they're different. Okay. But anyway, the Vaibhashikas are saying that there are Anushayas in, we could read this up, I don't know if the word is, there are Anushayas in the

[54:35]

in the Guttis, and they also say that the Guttis are not active, therefore, they do not consider that there's active places which are so active that they're creating a positive or negative karmic state. They're neutral. That's clear. Whether, I can't remember now, whether they say that the Inuchiyas are different from the active state or at the other, or if I lost, it's all time to go. But I don't want to spend the rest of the class looking for that. Is that okay for now? If it's not, then force me to look it up some, you know, part about next week. Yeah. Yeah. Why is this important?

[55:49]

I think it's important to know whether, when you're in the Gatti, all you gotta do is sit back and experience. Are you actually doing things in the Gatti, or is it just basically experience, and you're not really doing anything? Should you feel that basically your job is to... Not your job, but should you see what you're doing as basically just sensing retribution, that that's the nature of this state? Or should you see, no, it's not that way. It's actually that you're sensing, yes, that's predominant here. But also you're cooking up other stuff. And that's pretty significant. I think they'd say, well, of course there's these questions, but... irrelevant, you know, the fact that you're cooking up other things. You don't need to consider that. Mostly emphasize the fact that you're into sensing retribution. But the relative emphasis in the meditation practice. And one school is saying emphasize this side, the other school is saying, no, it's more helpful to emphasize that side.

[56:53]

So they're all meditating in the same realm of dharmas, but different schools have different aesthetics about what's important to emphasize in different types of situations. Some found, gee, I found it really helpful to do it that way. I could say, no, it's more helpful to do it this way. So they convert their experience of what's the helpful way to see things into realities about what's actually going on. And these different opinions. From the Buddhist point of view, probably, he would know both of these ways. For some people, they'd say, for you, it's this way. You do it that way. For you, that way. That would be helpful for you. The Buddha's view can see all these positions probably have merit. But none of these schools, because they're systems, they can't be so pervasive, you know, and totally applicable to all situations. It's too cumbersome. They have to be protective of their turf. They get too open.

[57:55]

They have to be perfectly enlightened in order to administer their state. So a system like this is a little bit different from Buddha's knowledge in a way. even though it's a Buddhist system. Because it's trying to protect itself. And Buddhists don't have to do that. And that's what knocked the Abhidharma down. It got more and more self-protecting. And the Mahayana came up and just went, fuck. And their energy started spreading all over Central Asia and up over the mountains, over near China. And by the time we got there, it wasn't very interesting anymore. And Chinese thought that the people who were whacking it apart were more interesting. They never had a lot of energy, you know. The Abhidharmas were like, oh, oh. Big and powerful, a lot of stature. But the other people were more active and having fun knocking it down. They let the Majanakas, you know. They had more fun destroying the world of dharmas. And the people who were trying to protect it said, don't touch that.

[58:58]

Chinese liked them better. So, Mahayana Buddhism was what's happening in China. Also, it looked better with Chinese temperament anyway. As a result, it worked so well that China became a Buddhist country, which India never was. After a while, China, at the height of the Kong Dynasty, China was Buddhist. They made this thing, they made this religion that worked for the whole country, the biggest country in the world. It worked for the whole country. There's never been anything like that before. That's a good country under one cup. Rome never had one religion. Huge country. All these different kinds of Buddhism worked just so well. Mayana Buddhism, though, that enjoyed destroying dharmas. But in India, there was always... Buddhism was very influential. Tremendous, huge, gnostic communities and millions of followers, but Hinduism was always very strong.

[60:03]

And... Buddhism never completely took over Wingy. But it did, and in Japan too, and in Korea. Okay? So that's why I would understand these things like this, about these differences. It's good to understand both if you can, if you have time, because then you get into the subtleties of the meditation and see how It might be useful to do one side or the other, and how each one has merit. You can't see the merits of both sides. That's not so helpful, because why would he plan it out if he didn't think there was some merit? He'd probably think there's something interesting to twist the gem this way and then that way. Otherwise, he wouldn't have brought it up. He might say, I think this one's better, but he'd say, well, these people have some, you know, I'm going to mention it anyway. They have enough ongoing. They have enough going that he's going to bring them up. That's a good thing.

[61:05]

I mean, if Masabandu is willing to talk about something, it has some merit. So this is part of Chinchamaya Prajna, okay? That you see the different positions, and you know which ones are better, which ones are useful for this situation and that situation. You can make these discriminations and rank these teachings, and you understand what the merits and demerits of the relative positions are. Now that's a lot to ask to, you know, all that's sort of going on there, but I'm crucial. We don't have time to do that, but that's the ultimate in filling in the net of the reflective phase of wisdom. What? Yes. How do you do it?

[62:08]

Did you hear what she said? She said, how do you go from rupadhatu to hell? And that will be best probably to bring up when we talk about intermediate existence. So the way you go is you go, you're in rupadhatu. Okay? Now, in rupadhatu, you can be in two kinds of situations in rupadhatu. What are they called? Anybody? What kind of situation, what kind of being can move a doctor? What? What? I can't hear you. I'm going deaf, I'm afraid. It'd be better for me to speak in your voice. Right. Do you know Deva Bubba or Kama Bubba? You're either in a gutty, heavenly gutty, heavenly destiny, or you're actually doing rupajana meditation.

[63:17]

After doing rupajana meditations, you can go now. No. No. It's because of anger that you're going to hell. But you're not doing anger in rupadattu. However, being in rupadattu at heaven, for example, might make you more susceptible to anger. So, you're in rupadattu at heaven. It comes to an end, you know. The end. They conclude themselves. You go into intermediate realm, and in the intermediate realm, you can go, well, you can go directly to hell, too. Anyway, it's a result of angry type of thinking that you're going to hell. But not because of meditating in Rupadattu fashion that you're going to hell.

[64:18]

But people can go from heaven to hell quite easily because you become very susceptible to slight irritations of heaven. Try. Well, Pride is... I don't think pride makes you very susceptible to hell, but I don't think pride is sending you to hell. Pride is... Yeah, pride may make you susceptible to fighting. and fighting for even more than you have. And if you fail, uh, and you start getting really, kind of, into the fighting, you, if I fail, fail, do what you want.

[65:22]

If you get into the fighting over getting more, then that can send you to hellbound. Pride doesn't really project you to hell. Pride is characteristic of humans and, and, uh, devas and, uh, but their activity itself is not hell projecting. Hell projection happens in Kamababa, not in the destiny. The disappointment from seeing arrogance. The disappointment from seeing arrogance is very salutary. Very good. Doesn't end your health. You're right in the middle of where you are, especially where you are as being arrogant.

[66:23]

It's good for arrogant people to see that. They do not feel good about it, though. It's true. You can get angry about it. That's true. But seeing the arrogance is not getting angry about it. You don't have to get angry. When you get angry, you can go from being prideful and arrogant to seeing it, to being angry about it, and then to hell. Go up through intermediate realm to hell. You can go that way. But the pride itself, you're seeing it. Those, the pride of them, it's not so hot, but the seeing of it is good. It's not good. It's sort of a wholesome. Good is even better than good. In fact, Abhidhamic meditation. If you see, hey, there's pride there. You're starting to tune into reality. And next phase is you'll see, hey, pride doesn't make sense.

[67:24]

It doesn't make any sense. I can't, it doesn't really stand up. Then you're really, that's really good. But it's not happy or anything. It might be disappointing even. The Bodhisattva path in many ways is disappointing Our hot path is disappointing too. It's disappointing to find out that you're arrogant and to keep finding out that you're arrogant. Moment after moment, to keep finding out that you're arrogant, it's disappointing. And then to find out that you're not even arrogant, but not that you're not arrogant, but that you can't even get arrogant, so you're not unarrogant either, you're not humble, you can't get humble either. To find out that you're not, first of all, you are arrogant. If you're anything, you're arrogant. Definitely not humble. And then you can't even have that. This is not interesting. This is a disappointing trip. This is the bodhisattva path. It's kind of sad. It's sad. As Shanti Davis said, the more you progress the bodhisattva path, the farther things that are dear to you recede and the weaker the wonderful things become.

[68:36]

It's sad. Freedom is sad. from a certain point of view. From the point of view of the stuff you like to have for you, it's kind of sad to be free. You know, you look back from your lofty, palatial freedom, and you look back and say, oh, that poor little person you used to get. Poor little fella. It's sad, you know? Tromping around the world all these fancy trips, Being a great Buddhist, you know. I used to be such a great Buddhist. What? Yeah, and you'd have to give that one up. Even that one you can't have. It's really, it's pretty futile. Anyway, that's good.

[69:48]

Anything else on this part? Did you honest at least? Yes? No, you can be arrogant without noticing it, definitely. Most arrogant people, most arrogant beings, and arrogant beings are mostly found where?

[70:50]

What realms would you, what destinies would you think you'd find arrogant beings? Kamadatu Heaven, that one blood. Right here? What realm are you in that you speak to? Kamadatu what? There's several, there's 20 addresses in the Kamadatu. Which one are you referring to? Maybe this is too personal, but... Anyway, one of the 20, he doesn't want to say, one of the 20 addresses of the Kamadatu. Is that right? No, it's not. There's 20 addresses in the Kamadatu. Didn't you know that? Now, of those 20, which one would you find arrogance in?

[71:54]

What... Or you can just go back to the Guttis if the twenty addresses are too complicated. Three highest, yeah. What are the three highest? You can't remember? No, the three highest of the five. Or the sixth. What are the sixths? Or five? Destiny. Destiny. His blood. Shirt. Man. And Davis. That's where the arrogance is, okay? So, beings in those three realms, most, a lot of them are arrogant, and a lot of them that are arrogant don't know they're arrogant. The Buddhists know that they're arrogant. So you're not necessarily always arrogant. But if you're arrogant, and you're a Buddhist, you know you're arrogant.

[72:57]

No, I don't mean you're not necessarily the Zen Center member. Some Zen Center members are arrogant and don't know it. I mean if you're actually a Buddhist, whether you're a member of Zen Center or not. Because there are some people that don't harm members who know they're arrogant. They're Buddhists. They're not really totally Buddhists because there's a beginning to be Buddhists anyway. But if they are Buddhists, if they're arrogant, they know they're arrogant. If they're not arrogant, they know they're not arrogant. Do you ever notice that the humility is not on the chart? Humility is not a dharma. Arrogance is, though. Humility is when you get rid of arrogance. That's really arrogant. Now, the person says, I've gotten rid of arrogance. I've gotten rid of arrogance.

[73:59]

That doesn't really happen. And that's not that arrogant. Also. So true humility is actually true humility is that you know you do not have rid of arrogance. Okay? True humility is awareness of arrogance. That's not a dharma. That's wisdom. which sees that arrogance is there. When there's no arrogance, there's no humility. So there's either arrogance or there's not arrogance, but there's not humility. As a dharma, humility coexists with arrogance. But there's two kinds of arrogance, one you know about and one that you don't. The one when you know about arrogance, you're called humble. When you don't know about arrogance, you're just plain arrogant. In both cases, there's arrogance. But if you take away arrogance entirely, there's nothing to be humble about. Why should you be humble if you're not arrogant? Nothing to be humble about. It's not an issue, you know? You don't have to be humble.

[75:03]

Humility is a compensation for arrogance. And the compensation for arrogance is to observe arrogance. And arrogance is found, you know, hell beings are not arrogant. They're not arrogant. There's not any arrogance, and there's no humility either. It's not happening here. They just feel terrible. They don't think they're hot stuff. And animals are afraid. And hungry ghosts say, gee, I want more, and I can't get it. But humans, Asura and Davis, they're into pride, and they're good at it. And then pride goes way up to the top of the Arigidatu, way up to the top. The most lofty meditational states of the mundane world. The greatest yogic feet of the mundane type. There's pride way up there. They're still saying, you know, you can't even make it, can't even, can't even get the pitchfork to make the subtle sound of how lovely they are.

[76:15]

Because it's not even sound. It's beyond any sense how wonderful they are and how much they've transcended the world. But they still are proud. But you can still, even up there, you can be aware, I'm still proud. My God. If you made it all the way up here, right along the way up there, It's great stuff. It sticks there. But Bodhisattva, it's a pretty miserable trip, you know. Oh, my God. You don't have pride. You don't have nothing. You're losing all the good stuff. It's very sad. You're disappointed. But anyway, humility is not an issue anymore. But you look pretty humble. Maybe. You may look humble, but it's not really happening.

[77:17]

It's only from the point of view of former stuff. Maybe we should just skip this Vijnanistati stuff. It seems to be kind of a block. So I think we'll just skip it, okay? And jump over to... to the four, um, uh, Karga HCD, yeah, the four matrices, I think you should discuss these just because, if nothing else, they occur in the diamond future. And that, I don't, I think that would be pretty easy to get across that little bridge. And then to the great number, chapter, I mean, Karga number 10, which is what you've been waiting for for so long, the intermediate existence of Bardo, And then we'll start studying the bardos. So if anybody wants to talk about the Vigyanas 50s, they can bring them up in form of a question, but we're not going to actually go through that swamp.

[78:25]

We're going to jump over it, over to the chapter, to Karga 8. The next time we'll start reading chapter Karga 8 and going into Karga 10. And if anybody wants to talk about Vigyanas 50s, ask questions. about it. We won't read it in class. It's not that difficult. It's just another way to look at the... Instead of looking at the triple world in terms of gutty and in terms of the karma bhava and karma bhava and gutty, it now looks at it in terms of types of consciousness, categories of consciousness. It's a different way of looking at it. Not that difficult, but I just feel like we should jump over it. that important? Anyway, stopping us, can't get beyond me stuck on this page for two or three weeks. I don't know, did you say something?

[79:43]

Well, I wanted to blame it on something. Okay? So, once again, this is a good time now to start reading if you want to. The Tibetan Book of the Dead, which is about, you know, bardo. Trungpa. I mean, not Trungpa. What is it? Sremantle? It has the introduction by Trungpa, which is a mayana kind of way to look at it, which I think is... Very interesting, so that's fine to read that. And also there's that Philip Capo book about reincarnation, and there's a book out by these people called Death and Reincarnation. It's all there, and you start playing around with it now. It's interesting. Books on shamanism. The main text here will be the Abu Dhamma Kosha.

[80:51]

These texts are coming from the Abu Dhamma Kosha. This is the establishment story that we're going to read now. Everything else is kind of skillful extrapolations on this basic text here. But I think that's important to do because, or interesting to do anyway, because in fact, those are the texts that have had the real cultural impact. not the Abdomokoshi so much, directly, most people don't know this in detail. But in Japan and China and Korea and Tibet, their story of rebirth comes from this, you know, this is a critical issue. There's also a book, there's also a game called Rebirth, which maybe people can start playing on Saturday nights again, Sunday nights, Neil Rumkin and Tom Girardot and David Merrill, experts out there now so they can guide you through the door.

[81:58]

Neil's still in Avicii Hellas part. And David the Buddha. But then right after that, his knee went out. So you've got to be careful.

[82:17]

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