Well, this, my friends, is something like the weather in which the Abhidharma Kosha was written. So it's actually, you can imagine now, studying this stuff with flies and mosquitoes and various other kind of heat and sweat. But Northern India is hotter than Southern India. Ah. Southern India is like Hawaii. Northern India is like the Sarah Desert. Northern India, it's hotter than in southern India. Northern India, you have to come down from mountains into northern India and die like flies. Because it's the low altitude and the extreme heat is killing. Anyway, so this is a good night to study Javadana Korsha.

[01:10]

We got up to Karga 45 last time, but I'd like to review again. Karga 40 AB. 15 are abandoned through meditation. The last three are three types. 15 what? Fifteen what? Fifteen Datus are abandoned. And what are those fifteen? Anybody? Yeah. That's on the, uh, I, I hear those. The organs, right? Okay, the organs? Five organs? Five objects. Five objects of what? Five objects. Sensible object. Objects of what? Objects of the organs.

[02:13]

No. Objects of consciousness. Objects of the consciousness. Objects of what consciousness is? Vinyana means consciousness. So which consciousness is? The sense consciousness. Sense consciousness. All right, so, and the body sense consciousness. Okay. So those are the 15, they're abandoned through meditation. What's that called? That abandonment through meditation? What? Extinction? No, more literally, what's it called? What? No, more literally, what's abandonment through meditation? called Bhavana Marga, right? They're abandoned to Bhavana Marga. So you can say, go to a boo through Bhavana Marga.

[03:18]

Fifteen. Bhokra. Boo. By Bhavana. Marga. And Babanamarga is the third of the five paths taught in Abadaram. In the last three, the last three what? The last three Datus are abandoned. I have those three different classes and three different cases. First case is that the Anushayas are abandoned through insight. And what Datu are the Anushayas found in?

[04:23]

What? Dharma Datu. That's where you find the Anushayas. The latent tendencies are included in the Datu called Dharma. And that part of the Dharma Datu, which is called the Anushayas, the latent tendencies, is abandoned through insight. Through what? What do you call it? Darshanamara. So the lineage of that Datu, of the Dharma Datu, the lineage, that part of its lineage, which is through the defiled, I mean, the latent defilements, the latent places, is cut by the path of insight, by view, by insight, just by seeing in a moment. And this is the fourth, this is the fourth, I mean the third of the four, five stages, the third of the five stages of the path.

[05:35]

The other impure dharmas and the good impure and the impure avijñāpti are abandoned through meditation. So, fifteen dhatus are abandoned or cut. The lineage of fifteen dhatus are abandoned through bhavanama. Then in the Dharmadhatu, one section of the Dharmadhatu we can consider is the Anushalayas. They are banded by insight, by darshan. Then the other things which are found in the Dharmadhatu that are found in the dharmadhatu are the good, impure, the kushala sashrava dharmas, the kushala sashrava dharmas, the good dharmas, the wholesome dharmas that have outflows, they're abandoned,

[07:11]

through meditation. The other class is another kind of initiators. They're abandoned through insight. And the last class is the Abhijñapti, the impure Abhijñapti. Abhijñapti is . But in the doctor system, Abhijñapti goes over and it is included in Dhammadattu, isn't it? If you look at your chart, you'll see. Although Abhijiniyapti is a form, it's included in the Skanda called form. In the Dhatu system, it gets split off from the other 10 kinds of rupa and gets included in the Dharma Dhatu. So the Abhijiniyapti, the interior Abhijiniyapti, the subclass of the Anushayas, and the good interior dhami, the good dharma group, These are abandoned through meditation.

[08:13]

So that's the second class. Yes? Can you speak up? Right. Most of the ones I just said are the ones that are abandoned through meditation. Most of the anushalayas are abandoned through insight. But a certain subset of the anushalayas are abandoned through meditation. Okay? Impure avidnyati rupa. Non-defile neutral?

[09:27]

Yeah. What? No, it's, it's, um, it's, well, non-defile neutral. Oh, you're right. That's right. So it's kushala, the good dharmas without flows, and then the undefiled neutral. So the good and the undefiled neutral. So put those both in me. Can you think of the undefiled neutral, anybody? What is an example of an undefiled neutral?

[10:38]

Some of them are. Some of them are. What about hell. Hell is underpiled neutral. What? Is hell a diamond? The diamonds that make up its theories called hell. All those are underpiled neutral. What? Neutral needs to be more character. What about your, what about the material world. What about a mountain? A mountain? A river? Pacific Ocean? Is that on top of the ocean?

[11:43]

What about a little drop of the Pacific Ocean? Is that on top of the ocean? Yes, it is. What? No, it's not. So, Dhammadatu would be... So, that's an example of underpal neutral, but underpal neutral on Dhammadatu would be, for example, the psychological states of pain. Psychological pain. Formate. Psychological formate. In other words, health. or a state of psychological craving. As it happens to you, not as an act of craving, but just as a result of craving. Insatiability, rather than the act of craving. This is undefiled. Is this clear?

[12:45]

No? Yes? My daughter lives because the young woman took And maybe what you're saying is just a question. You know, some of the things like the last thing we've got on blogging, I think that in my mind, I think you guys seem like that's such a force of state of content. It doesn't depend on it as Darwin, but we're talking now about common categories, okay? And Darwin is on the common category called, first of all, good, which is a common category, and then the category of Added on to that is, in addition to good, the karmically good, and from the point of view of the path, having outflows or not having outflows, so karmically good and having outflows, those are abandoned through meditation. So all the good states, all the good things you do, karmically good things, those are abandoned through meditation.

[13:51]

So this means, remember that, and I'll say more about that later. And the other thing is, there are certain psychological states which just happen to you as a result of karmic activity. The general rubric of hell, hungry ghost, human realm, deva realm, these various realms that you talked about, the psychological states that come under those big headings, those are undefiled neutral. the destinies of our experience are undefiled neutral. So the depression or fear, fear is not a dharma. Fear is a psychological state that you inherit by virtue of certain karmic acts. Terror is not an active dharma. And we can say that it's not an active dharma.

[14:59]

In other words, the state of hell, of just being tormented, of having your, psychologically speaking, having your flesh chopped up in pieces and then poorly stick back together with dirt and all kinds of poison mixed in with it and then rip that all apart and so on and so forth. This event happening to you is undefiled neutral. It sounds like a nice name for a terrible thing. And in fact, these terrible things that happen to us, they're not in themselves so bad as far as creating further karma. That's why they're indeterminate. And they're also not defiled. However, they're the result of, this example I just gave, is the result of not only defiled, but also unwholesome karma. Unwholesome, defiled, unwholesome karma and defiled with outflows, all those things together give hell. But when hell happens to you, the very psychological events which make up hell, which will be confusion, belief in the self, lack of faith, lack of concentration.

[16:13]

There will be concentration, actually, so I shouldn't say that. Lack of prajna and so on. These various dharmas congeal into a psychological phenomenon And the karmic quality of that situation is undefiled neutral. And that's abandoned through meditation. Undefiled neutral. So notice that the good states, the good situations are abandoned with outflows are banned into meditation. They're banned after insight. That means after insight, you're still left with good activities, good habits. But there's still habits. You still have outflows. Those go last. As you'll see also later, that actually there's certain kinds of worldly, there's two kinds of pratisam kya niroda.

[17:24]

There's actually a worldly Pratisamkhya Naroda, a worldly liberation, and a super-mundane Pratisamkhya Naroda. We've talked mostly so far about the super-mundane Pratisamkhya Naroda. That's an uncreated Dharma. But there's also a worldly Pratisamkhya Naroda, I mean Pratisamkhya Naroda. And that is abandoned at the end of the path of meditation, which I think corresponds to our experience, and that is that if you have some insight prior to Buddhist practice, that insight is one of the last things you can give up. It hangs on a long time. So various kinds of insights or liberations that are not of the, strictly speaking, unconditioned type that come because of certain causes and go away by certain causes, they can be abandoned. And they're abandoned at the end of the path of meditation. I would guess, just right off the top of my head, that I'd probably put them in here, kushala, without walls.

[18:29]

Then the other category that's abandoned through meditation is the impure avijniyapti. And that's it. Anushayas, these undefiled neutral states, and the good without flow states, and the impure avijinampi. That's abandoned through meditation. So that's the second class, okay? So once again, we're talking about from the three dhatus, the first 15 are abandoned through meditation. The last three dhatus, abandoned in a complicated way. First, most of the Anushalayas are abandoned through insight. Then some of the Anushalayas are abandoned through meditation. And the good, impure are abandoned through meditation, the undefiled, neutral are abandoned through meditation, and the impure are abandoned through meditation.

[19:40]

And in the last case, the last case is that the pure dharmas The unconditioned dharmas and the dharmas that are part of the path, the asamskripta dharmas are not abandoned by meditation or by insight. Asamskripta dharmas are not abandoned through meditation or through insight. They're not abandoned. And the dharmas that are part of the path are not abandoned. In other words, the anasarava dharmas, the dharmas that don't have outflows, they're not abandoned. So that's the third class, third case for the last three Dhammas. And the first case is that most of the Anushayas are abandoned through insight. The second case is this complicated case, which has three phases itself. And the third case is some of the Dhamma Dhatu is not abandoned.

[20:42]

So part of the Dhamma Dhatu is not abandoned. So this part is abandoned to insight. These three parts are abandoned through meditation, and this part is not abandoned. Now, do you have some questions? Robert? . Excuse me, but we're only talking about two subsets of the Anishayas. The major group, which is actually all of them, looked at it a certain way. And then the subgroup of the Anishayas, which is a certain group of 10. This over here, these are not Anishayas. This is the Anishayas.

[21:44]

This is the Rupa. In this case, number one of the Kusheva Sashrava. and the , OK? These are not Anushayas. Anushayas are not . Does that answer your question? You weren't asking it? OK, go ahead. . There's three categories, okay? One category... For the last three doctors, there's three categories. One category is abandoned by meditation, one category is abandoned by insight, and one category is not abandoned. Those are the three cases, okay? First case is abandoned through insight, all right?

[22:49]

So the last three Dattus, the first case, could abandon through insight. In that case, go all the Anusha Dasing. In the third case, not abandoned, what goes there is the unconditioned elements and the path. That's not abandoned. And the second category, that which is abandoned through meditation, that has one, two, three, four, the kinds of things in it. So this section has four things. It has the good kind of undefiled things, undefiled, neutral things, and good, impure things. You can also say undefiled, neutral, impure, right? Say anivhita, which means undefiled, neutral, avyakrita, and sasrava. But sasrava is sort of redundant after you said all that. So you can get undefiled, neutral, impure.

[23:53]

and good impure. Okay? And then the rupa, and then the anishaya. So there's four kinds of things on the second category of things abandon. Okay? Let's see. You were next. Do the anishaya cover all the problems? See, that's the complicated part, is we don't know what Anushayas are yet, right? Anushayas are latent kleshas. They're kleshas that we speak of them that they're not yet manifest. When they're manifest, then they will give rise to our crucial situations. Well, is it interesting how the Well, you see, once you're at this stage of practice of actually abandoning things, there's no akushala happening anymore.

[25:12]

You're not into akushala activity. What you've got is latent places, which if you don't watch your step, they'll crop up and you do akushala things. In other words, by discipline, these akushalas are not manifesting. They're not raging. so to speak. They're under control by virtue of your discipline. However, they're still there, and they can flare up any time. So you have to root them out in their latent form. And they're rooted out, some are rooted, most are rooted out by insight. So when you have your first insight into the path, and then you fulfill these 16 phases of the path of insight, after that, most of the Anushalayas are gone. Most of the latent things are gone. After that, actually, it's mostly the manifest things to work on. So when you, actually, when you first enter the path, you get rid of most of the subtle stuff, the underground stuff actually is ripped off first. And then the superficial stuff is worked on for a long, long time.

[26:13]

Superficial, in the sense that it's up in the surface, it's turned to your actual manifest habits. You know, your physical, the way you see and hear things. But I feel that to launch off right now into the description of the Anushalayas would be not so good. But if you remind me, I'll work it in some kind of way. See, Anushalayas are dealt with in depth in Chapter 5. The chapter's about them. And then Chapter 6 is the path which takes care of them. But we could have... I could give you, if you remind me, I could work it in the next quarter for this class to give you a little bit more feeling for the initial, I guess, prior to Chapter 5. There's a place in Chapter 2 where that could be brought up without going too deeply.

[27:19]

At this point, as I said before, I just want you to know that... which kinds of doctors, which practices take care of which doctors. But I don't think we can understand the whole story. So this is a characteristic of chapter one, particularly that it sort of gives you kind of four shortened sections out of the whole book. But that makes it very diverse and difficult. Okay, some of the questions at this point. Yes. So how are they abandoned? Yes, sir. What do you think?

[28:31]

What? Meditation? Yes. That ain't an answer. Let's see. We could just read the next character. Okay, that might be of some help. It says, a 40 CD says, neither the non-defiled nor that which is matter nor that which is produced from the non-sixth is abandoned by inside indeed truths. Okay, this is a little bit complicated, but right after this section, which I just talked about, there's an objection raised. by a school called the Vatsi Putriyas. This school is actually somewhere important. Vatsi Putriyas.

[29:50]

They have something to say that's just somewhat contradictory to this school that teaches Abhidham Kosha. And here they have an objection. They're Abhidhamists, you see, and basically their objection is that they think that some of the things that we just said were abandoned by... They agree that the Anushayes are abandoned through insight. But they think that some of the other dhammas, which we just said were abandoned through meditation, they think that they're abandoned through insight also, okay? So it's a little bit, just a little discussion here. But they say that some of these other dhammas, which the vāvāshikas say are abandoned through meditation, they say, no, they're also abandoned through insight, okay? Argument there. But anyway, Vāsipana doesn't agree with them. Vāsipana agrees with the vāvāshikas and doesn't agree with the vāsiputryas. So in the end, he agrees with them here.

[30:55]

He says, in order to refute the thesis of the Vipassiputryas, the author, in an abbreviated manner, says, neither the non-defiled nor that which is matter nor that which is produced from non-sex is abandoned through insight. In other words, it's abandoned through meditation. So he's saying that the... That if it is not defiled, okay? And if it is not akushala, or defiled, okay? So not akushala is kushala, right? And not defiled is undefiled, okay? So, and also nothing that's material can be abandoned through insight. So he just again repeats in the next karaka. So he just said, material things are not abandoned through insight.

[31:58]

Material dharmas are not abandoned through insight. And also, things that aren't bad, things that aren't unwholesome, they're not abandoned through insight. And also, things that aren't defiled, they're not abandoned through insight. So this is a recital of the negative of the negative coming out to be the same. the same statement again. However, he says a little bit more. By the non-sixth, okay, the sixth is the mental organ, right? Sixth is manas, is monodatu, which is one of the datus you're talking about. So, the non-sixth is not abandoned by insight. Okay, the non-sixth, what's the non-sixth?

[33:01]

The non-sixth, what's the non-sixth? What? Well, in a way, it's not, the non-sixth means the other organs, right? The sixth is mono, so the non-sixth means the other organs. So, the non-sixth is not abandoned through insight. I mean, the non-sixth is not abandoned through insight, that's right. The non-sixth is abandoned through meditation, which is what he just said. So, what does that mean? Maybe that means that the sixth is abandoned through meditation. No, he's abandoned through insight. No, the non-sex are abandoned through meditation.

[34:06]

Did I just say the non-sex are abandoned through insight? Non-sex are abandoned through meditation. Non-sex are abandoned through meditation. Non-sex are abandoned through meditation. So the sex is abandoned through insight. No, it is. He's not mentioning the sex. It means that the sector integrally related to the 98 initiates. But remember, the 6th is none other than what? What?

[35:08]

The 6th is monodaptic, but it's not the period domodaptic. It's the previous what? It's the just died what? Non-6th. The 6th is the non-6th that just died. Eventually, this may be good for you. The sixth is the non-sixth, which has just died. In other words, the sixth is that of the five sense countessants, which has just perished. Right? That's what the sixth is in this character. We're talking about monas. Monas, monadatu, is the sixth datu. Okay? Okay, yeah. So this means, and we've also learned that the sixth is none other than what?

[36:10]

The carcassette back, remember? The sixth is not separate from? It is separate from the non-sixth. It's the same with the dead non-sixth, but it's different. Do they co-exist? Well, they co-exist in the sense that in this school, they don't co-exist. In this school, when those have gone away, okay, when they've actually perished, when they're not there anymore, then that fact is the sixth. Now, in Yogacara, we say they haven't really gone away, okay, so that, and that, means that they're individually related. In this school, we really mean they died, they're gone. That's the sixth. That one which has just gone away, the fact that it's gone away, that one, that's the sixth.

[37:16]

And now this sixth, which is that one who just died, which isn't here anymore, what's that not separate from? Manavijinandatu. Okay? So, Manavijinandatu is just another name for or monas is just another name for monavijjana dattu. So monavijjana dattu and monas are integrally related with what? With dharmadatu. With what part of dharmadatu? All parts but in particular the Anushayas. So monas is all tangled up with these Anushayas and when you abandon the Anushayas you abandon monas. When you abandon monas you abandon monavijjana dattu. How is monovignano not to abandon? It's three ways. It's three ways. What? No, it says that the non-sixth is not abandoned by each side.

[38:27]

The non-sixth isn't. The non-sixth is the five sense organs, right? Okay, I'll just draw the picture again. Okay, so here we have the non-sixth. Non-sixth, people, five sense. Vinyana. Okay? Vinyana sixth. The sixth is the monas. Or monodata. Or monayata. And manas is one of these non-sixths that just died.

[39:40]

Okay? The dead non-sixth is manas. Manas is a sense consciousness that just perished. You guys really understand it? Can I actually explain? Yes, I actually can. I could do it. Did you ever want to actually explain it? It may not have been any good what I said. But first, that's something I've said before, I'll say it again. It's one of the slipperiest ideas. But this thing is something that just disappeared. And once again, See how this helps. The reason why we say that is because we want to have a support for mono vijnana doctor.

[40:47]

Mono vijnana doctor needs support. It needs an organ. So how do you get a support? You create this thing called monos, which is the thing that just preceded the sense consciousness which has just perished. The sense consciousness which has just perished, gives rise to this consciousness, called monovigyanandatu, by a causal entity called , which means immediately antecedent condition. Now you have support. But this support, in fact, doesn't exist anywhere other than the thing itself. But if you admit that, then monovigyanandatu doesn't have support. They don't want not to have support. So to give it a support, and not to contradict anything, They say it's a thing that just passed. So it's gone. So there's not anything extra than what's actually going on. And there's another character that says this six, this manas, equals and is none other than monavignanadatu. OK? So now what we're concerned with in this character is that the object of monavignanadatu, which is called damadatu, this is abandoned in three ways.

[42:01]

And since it's abandoned in three ways, and it has three causes of abandonment, so does monas, and so does monovignana dattu, because monas and monovignana dattu are really the same thing. Monas expresses part of the function of monovignana dattu, namely that monovignana dattu can act like an organ. It can do that. But in this case, the funny thing about this dattu, called monovignana dattu, is that this dattu Its organ capacity is not separate from itself. So how do you talk about it supporting itself? All the other dhatus have the consciousness and you have a separate thing called the perceptive faculty which is not the consciousness. The consciousness is mind. It's unlocatable and unhittable. But it's supported by a thing which has a location. It evolves out of a material entity interacting within its sphere. The monovigiana dhatu doesn't work that way because It doesn't have an organ separate from itself that's material that interacts with its sphere.

[43:06]

So that's a tricky thing that happens here. And the definition of monos being a slippery definition is part of that transition from the mundane material supporting the consciousness, the material interacting with itself, the organ and the field interacting with itself, getting rise to the consciousness, not making the transition into the mind interacting with its objects, and not having an organ other than itself other than one of its own capacities, called manas. So that means manas and manavinyana-adaptu are banning it three ways also. And that's what it says. The last three are banning it three ways. But you can't articulate manas, and you can't articulate manavinyana-adaptu. So you articulate the object of consciousness, the dharma-adaptu. And you articulate it in these three ways, some by meditation, some by insight, and some don't get abandoned. All these things are in the Dharma Doctor. And Manas is all tangled up with all of it.

[44:08]

It's all tangled up with... When Manas is tangled up with Anushayas, then Manas and the Anushayas are abandoned by insight. When Manas is entangled... When Manas is receptive organ core and related to... So as I said, when monas and monavigyanadattu are related to these other categories, then they're abandoned by meditation. When monas have the object, when the object of consciousness is nirvana, there's no abandonment. When object of consciousness is Buddhist path, there's no abandonment. So if you didn't understand this character, I'm sorry, but you see it's an important character. It actually, in a very few words, these two karakas together, they're quite a nice summary of, I'll be talking about phenomenology and Buddhist practice. But anyway, please don't expect to sort of have to understand this through at this point.

[45:15]

And bring this karaka up again, you know, later when you study other things. Look back at this karaka and you'll understand better and better. What a nice summary it is. Something that doesn't exist? It isn't that it doesn't exist. It's just that we want to say we have one thing, okay? And this one thing has a function within itself of both being sort of overall cognitive capabilities and discriminative ability and receptive ability. This is all in one field called mind, okay? Now, this thing that the consciousness aspect of it, okay, which is the cognitive side, all the other cognitive fields have support, all right?

[46:21]

which is a material thing, separate from the mind, okay? So you can say, here's the support for this cognitive field. So you do that, one, two, three, four, five. Now I'll come to the sixth. In this case, there's no material thing over here. The receptive faculty is actually part of the consciousness itself, all right? So where is the thing that we can use for the support? Well, you can't find it. So where do you find it? You find it in Samanatha Prajaya. You find it in a causal factor. And where is that causal factor? It's in the immediately antecedent thing. In other words, it comes from something which no longer exists. So you right now are produced by something that doesn't exist anymore. That kind of reasoning is the support for you in this present. Well, I also understand why is something which is as You said non-label and non-locatable. How is that suddenly it could be abandoned or not abandoned?

[47:27]

How is that suddenly, how is suddenly it's non-label and non-locatable liable to be tangled up in the brick dust? Well, non-label means that that it and other things like it can't occupy the same place. But mind doesn't have that problem. Mental things can coexist in the same space. So in that sense, the concept of space doesn't mean anything in mental fields. But in physical fields, you can say physical things can't, they bump into each other, they hit each other in that way. Although you can't locate mind because it has no location because you can't spit it down, at the same time you can't experience it. We think we can experience it. We think we have mental events. But in fact they have no location.

[48:41]

That's one of the characteristics of mind is that you can't hit it in this way. in the way of, like an object, like a hindrance. Part of it, you can hit it in the sense of, you can make contact with, the mind does, in a sense, hit its objects, but they have no location, because actually they're in the same place. The objects of mind, the dharmadhatu, is not in some other place from the mind. The mind actually includes the whole dharmadhatu, each moment. So where is it? It has no, it has no bound. Whereas the material organs, they have, they have, they have actual localities. You can go like this to it. You can cover the eye, back up the eye by just putting something over it like this. I can't do that with the mind, according to Abu Dharam. Well, I guess what I understand is when we say, when we say, why are we talking all about, you know, to being abandoned or not?

[49:42]

Because there is a, There is a lot of the data that we should not have been, but there's also a lot of the data that we should not have been, but there's also a lot of the data that we should not have been, since the pure data that we should not have been, are not, it can have been, so it might not have been, but it is been, and how can it both be saying not have been, if it's not a thing, and it's not, and it's not located in space, how can it be both? on which way you look at it. If you look at it, the same dharmas, when looked at one way, they're abandoned. When you look at them another way, they're not abandoned. There's 72 dharmas that have odd flows. If you look at them from the point of view of the Buddhist path, you don't abandon them. If you look at them in the other way, you do abandon them. The Buddhist path is the way of looking at it that you can't see it, you can abandon them. But when you think you can abandon them, then you can abandon them. And if you think you can abandon them, then that's what we call That's with outflows. When you think things can be abandoned, when you think things have outflows, then you can abandon them.

[50:48]

But when you don't think they have outflows, when you don't see it that way, then there's no possibility of abandonment. And in fact, that's what Buddhist practice is. It's when you don't see the outflows anymore. You don't see the outflows, there aren't any outflows. Therefore, no abandonment. But if you think there's outflows... So once you abandon the scene, how... in each case. But in fact, what did you abandon? You abandoned something which you were the one who thought was there in the first place. So really you didn't do anything. But, see, depends on which way you look at it. Really you don't do anything. So actually the Buddhist path doesn't really do anything. But, in fact, if you think it does, then you should abandon that idea. And then you'll be doing it. And then you won't think it is, and so on. So I flip that back and forth like this. Okay. Any other questions on East Karaka? Yes? What would be Anushayas that are abandoned by insight?

[51:53]

Well, all the purely, most of the Anushayas, when you make 98 Anushayas, they're basically built by blowing up the Drishti section. Okay? There's six initiatives. But the Drishti one can be expanded indefinitely. Views are, you know, they can go forever. Because views can go, they have no bound. So by taking the one called view and expanding that in different kinds of views and also in different, and then applying the views to the point of the truth, viewing them wrong in various ways and in different realms. So you take the view and you spread it out over four, over four, four noble truths in various realms, that multiplication gives you all 98. So most, all the views are abandoned by insight, because insight is another way of viewing. So views, as Dr. Jaini points out in an article that he lectured on about a year ago, view is actually a kind of prajna.

[53:01]

Drishti is a kind of prajna. And Drishti is an Anushaya. So when you enter the path, you have the first, you have the prajna has finally started to really zero in and work correctly the first time. At that time, you destroy Drishti. And then the 16 phases of the path are to destroy the different kinds of Drishti in the different realms and so on. So you just review it in different realms to take care of all these different Drishtis, take care of most of the Anushayas. And there's certain Anushayas which are more sort of physically based, basically. They're not related so much to view, and those will be removed by meditation. For example, one of them is called raga, kamaraga, just simple desire for sex, and so on. This is abandoned from meditation. Okay?

[54:03]

As I said, this is a The whole chapter is devoted to this, what these are and how they work. Aren't the second ten no part of the verse 90? Yes. So wouldn't the second ten be abandoned by meditation and insight? Yes. Because you need insight before you get abandoned by meditation. First is insight. There's no, there's no, but there's, as I said, there's two kinds of bhavana marga, but the super mundane bhavana marga, the lakotara, Bavana Maga follows the Lakottara Darshani Maga, okay? The super mundane path of meditation follows the super mundane path of vision. So, in fact, you need both because you can't do the second one without the first one. Well, insight is

[55:06]

closely related to... Both of them are meditation practices. But the inside path is specifically related to the Four Nova Truths. Whereas the Bhavan and Marga thing will be related to a different set of meditation objects. So it's mostly both meditation practices. But what the objects are will make them different. The definitions of meditation. And basically, the difference will be that the first ones are related to view. The form of choose, taken in various combinations, will correct. And the other ones are related to conflicting emotional tendencies. So basically, its objects will be more towards emotional hang-ups. And the other one will be more towards false views.

[56:07]

And this is for you in detail how to do this in chapter 6. Okay? Yes? I have a question, John. You said minus [...] Perished? It's the previous, well, its basic definition is the previous sense consciousness that just perished. But, of course, if you had a sequence of sense consciousness perishing, then monos, and then monos, and monos, and monos, then there wouldn't be a previous sense consciousness after a while. Because when you look carefully at it, you go, gee, what's this? It's a junk here, Paul. It doesn't make any sense, but if you just step back, then you have 18 dotters. It's really nice. But if you didn't have this little sort of there, you'd have 17. This wouldn't be, you know, wouldn't have these nice six sets of three.

[57:19]

So that's why they do it. Just they want to have a nice system. If Manas is actually... Is that abandoning meditation? Yeah. Is that abandoning meditation? It doesn't matter what it was for this reason. It doesn't matter. Listen, manas is not abandoned because it used to be material consciousness, okay? The material consciousness is abandoned always through meditation. Manas is abandoned by meditation or by insight.

[58:22]

What determines whether it's abandoned by meditation, insight, or not abandoned is not what the previous sense consciousness was, but rather what the Dharma doctor is like at that moment. Dharmadhatu doesn't have previous sense consciousnesses in it. So if the previous sense consciousness was Chakshar Vigyanadhatu, but the current Anushalya available for abandonment is a drishti, is a view, then mindfulness would be abandoned by insight. But if the previous thing you're talking about, the object of consciousness available is another part of Dharmadhatu called good under, you know, good, impure dharana, kushala, sasrava, then manas will be abandoned, and so will the dharma we're talking about, that will be abandoned by meditation. The fact that it was preceded by sense consciousness, so which one it was, is not relevant here.

[59:26]

That sense consciousness is gone, and the only reason why they wanted it was just because they wanted to have a support for this consciousness here. doesn't have a support outside of itself. So we make one outside. And the only place you can put it outside is in the past moment. Because there's nothing outside mind at that moment. You just have mental consciousness. There's no physical outside. Okay? You've got at least two seconds. It's very slippery, as I say. You have to go over this and over this and over again to sort of grasp this little thing here. And it's not really worth it all. It's really not worth it. But the thing is, unless you get it, it keeps tripping you up. It's kind of like an entrance fee or something. It's not really important, but unless you can do it, it's like you have to keep on your toes, otherwise it keeps tripping you. It's funny, you know? Maybe it's good. Now that I think of it, it's kind of nice. It's like a constant booby trap in the Abhidharma studies.

[60:28]

It's Manu's idea. It's all over the place. That's right. He's not saying anything. That's right. You have to keep remembering that. You have to go through the motions just right. Anyway, this can be all tangled up. Okay. And the next one we talked about was Karaka 42, which basically, this is Karaka's interesting in many ways. One way that's interesting is it shows an example of where the Karaka that you have is a Vibashika position. The karaka is the Vaibhashika standard party line.

[61:33]

And then in the basha, in the commentary, what he presents is, first he presents the Vaibhashika position, then he presents another school's position, and then he presents his own position. So the Vaibhashika position, he reiterates in the commentary, faithfully to the karaka. Then he presents another school's opinion, the Vijnanavadana school, which fights the karaka. And then he begins his own position, which laughs off both. Okay? So this is a typical type of karaka. So there's several kinds. One kind of karaka is the karaka. Usually the Vipashic position is presented fairly faithfully in the karaka, in the verse. And then in the commentary, he may directly attack it right away, or he may repeat the karaka faithfully again and explain more about it and then attack it. Or he may give a commentary on the Karaka which doesn't attack it. He agrees with the Karaka. So sometimes he agrees with the Karaka and the commentary just supports it.

[62:39]

Sometimes he agrees with the Karaka and the commentary supports it, plus the commentary brings up other arguments that she puts down for the Karaka. Other times he brings up, puts the Karaka out there, puts the Vaibhashaka position up there and attacks it himself. and so on. All these different patterns occur. So this is a case where he puts the karaka out there, supports it by itself, attacks it with another school, and then puts both down. And there's also some cases where he puts the karaka out there, not according to the Vaibhashikas. They think sometimes he didn't put the karaka out there right. We don't hold that position. So once in a while, the way he puts it is not so accurate. And then other times, he puts out karaka He puts a commentary, which is not the commentary that the Vaibhashikas wanted to put out there, and he says he didn't bring enough information. So the book is rather complex in this way. And this brings, this is typical of the Dharma.

[63:41]

And one of the reasons why this book is so popular, it has all these different dimensions. It's not just... So all these different varieties. And Vasubhamda's position in this case is actually Buddha's case. It's from the sutras and it's also very close to the Mahjamaka position. Namely, it's not the eye that sees. It's not the eye consciousness that sees. It's not the mental consciousness that sees. It's not the visible thing that sees. Actually, nothing sees. There is no actor. There is no agent. And there's no object. Seeing is the arising of all these things together. That's what seeing is. This is actually a magyamika position. So oftentimes the magyamika and the sultrantika agree, which is good, because they both are going back to the sutras, hopefully.

[64:51]

So that's Karaka 42. What do you say about that? These are the same. And then we skipped up to Karaka 44 CD. Relative to consciousness, the point of support of the sixth consciousness is past. The point of support of the first five is also simultaneous. Okay, do you remember this character? So this point of support of the sixth consciousness, we just said this, the same thing again, is past. The point of support of the Montevideo Nyanadatu is the previous seventh consciousness.

[66:03]

just passed, but it says for the other ones, it's also simultaneous. In other words, also means it passed also, passed. So first is you have mono jnana dati. Its support comes from the past. Then you have sense. And their support comes from the past, but also from the present. Their support comes from the sense organ that's present with the consciousness, but also from the past. So that means they also have moments in the sense. But that makes sense because

[67:10]

The sense that yinodotus are also just another name for monoviginodotus when there is a physical thing there. That's what this character is saying. So from the point of view of support, The monovidhyana dhatu has less kinds of support than the sensividhyana dhatus. The sensividhyana dhatus have past and present support. They have an actual present material organ that you could talk about. And they have support by the previous sense consciousness also. Just like monovidhyana dhatu does. Yes, Mary?

[68:20]

They don't say it's left. They say that the past actually exists. That the Sarvastavada means. And they say that the past actually exists. It's just that its function has already occurred. It isn't that, it's just trace. It actually exists. It actually exists. No, in the past. There's existent reality, right? This is the existent reality. It has three sections. The past section is where you put the things that have already functioned in the present section. In the future section, is a thing which have not yet happened in the present section. But they all pre-exist. So then you don't have to have a trace of the past and the present, because you've got the past right there.

[69:23]

It's simultaneously, it's not simultaneously present, it's simultaneously existent. Because it's not simultaneously present, because then it would be present and then they would say, That'd be a problem, you see, because then they wouldn't have past separate from present. But they say past is really past, present is really present, future is really future. They all three exist. But past is over here, present is here, and future is there. And past has a special characteristic that it used to exist in the present. It already was present. It no longer is present. Therefore, it's past. It exists in that way. It doesn't need a trace in the present. It's not in the present. But when the present will be functioning, it will be in the present. It's in the past. That's the way they think. But these, these Vinyana Bodhis say, three worlds mind only. Yet they say these three worlds are in one mind. But this school says, there's a present mind, past mind, future mind. And past is this coming, as this definition puts it in.

[70:30]

This, this discussion occurs in chapter five. They teach this three worlds. Okay, so this is support from these different kinds of consciousness. Now the objects is the other way around. The mental consciousness, although it only has one support, can have objects in three times. It has support only from the past, but objects can be in three times. Whereas the sense consciousness can have support from the past and the present, but they only can have objects simultaneous. Once again? The past means that it's functioning and the present have already occurred.

[71:34]

That's the definition of plastic. And a future diamond is a diamond that has not yet had a functioning present and will lay it, will be some, some moment, later in time, it will have a function be possible. For the mental consciousness, The object can't exist if it's a pathogen feature for physical consciousness. It can only co-exist in the present. Just like the organ co-exist, so the object co-exist. And the organ is the support. Whereas the monoglionidati does not have this simultaneously existing organ as a separate thing.

[72:35]

Therefore, support is not present. But its objects are not just limited to the present, because its objects are not limited by the organ. Since the organ comes from practically nowhere, also the objects can come from anywhere. Whereas the sense consciousness is supported by a definite organ, which exists in the present. Therefore, the only objects they can have are objects which are the field of activity in this organ. Whereas manas, where does it come from? It comes from nowhere. It's just right here with the mind itself. And we define that in this strange way. So the mind has three realms for its objects. The mind embraces three realms, past, present, future. If the object It seems like the objects that impact any future would only be some kind of secondary object, but the actual thought or the actual vision of some kind must still exist in the present.

[73:57]

It may refer to something which may or may not have existed in the past or future, but it seems like the actual The actual dharmadhatu or whatever would only exist in the actual thought. Whether or not we follow his words exactly, we sort of know what he means. So now let's see if we can get more exact about it because I didn't quite get it. I think I know what you're talking about. Could you condense it a little bit? Well, we're saying that the object Objects of the model can exist in the past. Yes. The actual objects of that are just missing. And what I'm saying is that it seems to me that the actual objects only exist in the past.

[75:05]

But they can refer to things in the past. but only on a secondary basis. In other words, I can think about driving the center. But the thinking that I'm driving is up there. Yeah. So this is called present. This is called past. This is called region. OK. So now you say, I exist in the present. And I think about going to Zenzen tomorrow. Right? You think about that. That's supposedly a future thought. Thought of the future. Is that right? Yes, but the thought. All I'm saying is that the thought exists in the present. But that's my idea. The thought of the future.

[76:06]

This thought here. Thought. of the future. This thought is actually in front of you. And you say something about this? That this is secondary in some way? Yeah. The fact that this thought actually gets put over here. This thought is really in front of you, but you just put it over here. The fact that it's under the future label is secondary. What'd you say? Yeah, I mean, I'm not actually transferring the thought into the future. I'm just reflecting on the future. We have this thought, okay? And you just put a label under it called teacher. By, for example, by changing the grammar of the thought, right? Say, drive into Zenzhen. And you say, I will drive into Zenzhen. By the grammar of English, that puts a little sign in it called teacher. So right now you say, in the present, I'm in the present, okay? Drive, drive, drive, drive, drive. That's present, drive, drive, present, okay? I got it, it's a present thing, okay?

[77:06]

And you say, I will drive, drive, drive. It's still a present thing, and the eye is present and the will is present, right? But you say, well, that makes it sound like a future thought, a thought of the future, by changing it that way. But you still say, I say it really is a present, what you say, right? I guess I'm asking, is the drive of the Zen Center the object of consciousness, or is the thought of driving the Zen Center tomorrow the object of consciousness? Well, this is a subtle point, you see, because what is the part? You say, driving. That's single word. But if you say, that's present, driving. Or de, that's present. De, that's present. But you don't even have to say, I will de to make the future, OK? You can just say, watch. You just go, de. And you just, just. There's a way you can say duh if you make it future without putting any labels on it other than just in your mind you know it's future.

[78:09]

You could put that label on it. But which is primary and which is secondary? The point is it's just a thought. In any case it's just a thought. A thought of the future, a thought of the present, a thought of the past. They're just thoughts. It doesn't matter. And to say they're all in the present is fine. You could also say they're all in the past or all in the future. It doesn't matter. The point is, it's just thought. I agree with you. It's just thought. However, the tricky part is to say, the part that I don't think is right, is to say that a future thought is less real than a present thought. They're both. Future thoughts and present thoughts, one's not more real than the other. I would say thought of the future is no more or less, no more or less, really perfect. Or even future, and I also say future thought is none other than thought of the future.

[79:12]

How can I take this future thought? What I'm saying is future thought is just thought of future. It's not, it's not a, there's no such thing as a future thought which is, there's no existing thing called future thought which is not thought of the future. I still didn't make a sense to do anything at the end. You're not saying that, when you're saying that a future thought is no longer true than the present thought, but the thought which is not yet, or you said the thought which is not yet had its function, you're not saying that, you're saying that the present thought of the future is no less real than the present thought. It sounds like you were saying that the present thought of the future. Yeah. And future thought of the future is in the present. That this is no less real than present thought. That's right.

[80:15]

Well, what about the, because I thought when you first said that you were saying, the thought which has not yet happened, the thought which has not yet had its function, is no less real than the present thought. Well, I would say, What this school of Abhidharma says, by the thought which has not yet had its function, is a thought that you instilled that has occurred. A future thought is a thought that hasn't had its function. By the conceptual structure of certain thoughts, they have not yet had their function, they feel. But they already exist. They also feel. But I would say that thought has arisen, nonetheless. And it's no less real than a thought that doesn't have that conceptual shape such that it could be very easily labeled by the conceiver as in the future. But there are thoughts which have not yet come up yet, which we do not yet experience, all right? And those say, now that's the real future thought, those thoughts.

[81:17]

But you don't know those thoughts. They do not exist. And as soon as they pop up, they're existent. According to this school, they exist. and they have the conceptual structure that they haven't come into their function yet. According to the Yogacara, they exist as much as they're ever going to exist. And there's nothing that exists any more than they do. They're just thoughts. And they have a certain shape such as you'd be putting in this category called teacher, or you can say that they haven't had a function yet or something like that. But my only feeling is that that's as much as things exist. They don't exist more or less than that. But before they arise, whatever's their shape, We don't know about such things and they don't harm us in the least. And they also don't help us get out of trouble either. Those are all things that haven't happened. So what? This school says those things which you actually can experience, all right, that have the shape of not yet coming into their function,

[82:24]

Those exist. And that's right, they do.

[82:27]

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