We just said that non-surpassed penetrating and perfect dharma is rarely met with. And in one sense, this chapter is not so much Buddhist dharma. It's more, in some sense, part of it's just the dharma that, with worldly dharma, that is known throughout the world. Or it's just the way the mundane world is. There's no boundary between the way the mundane world is and Buddha Dharma. It's just that once you tune in to what the mundane world seems to be, then there's various ways to consider it. For example, do you think this stuff is real or not?

[01:06]

Do you think it's permanent stuff? Do you think it has a self? So it's possible to follow this argument, this description of what's here and have a, as far as it goes, and have quite a non-Buddhist understanding of of what's been presented. We know that actually what we're doing is describing things which we have a Buddhist understanding of. So in that sense, it's Buddhidharma, but otherwise it's not necessarily different from, as I said maybe before, what you find in China, American Indians, Greece, Central Asia, Africa.

[02:14]

Okay, could anyone say what we did last time? This picture, what is this a picture of? mundane world. What did you say? Our world. Our world system. Is it a complete picture of our world system?

[03:21]

Is it a complete picture? It is? No, it's not. It's only partial. What is missing? Perhaps I should just I said I wasn't going to do this, but to do it. First, there's this thing down here. This is called, first there's stuff all around this, all around this blackboard, okay? All around this blackboard is stuff called Tasha. Don't tell the kids about this. And that's what you do. Akash is all around here.

[04:24]

It's an unconditioned function. It's just stuff that doesn't interfere with that. It surrounds and permeates at the same time. It's not in the blackboard. Not the blackboard, but it's not. The blackboard doesn't push it away. It's where the blackboard is and where the blackboard isn't. But it is not, it doesn't obstruct the matter of the blackboard in it. And where also the blackboard isn't, that's it. I'll do it. You know what I mean? In other words, unconditioned. The first thing is a big disc that 160,000 Yojana sick.

[05:47]

Yojana is approximately a league, very close to a league. Yojana. Y-O-J-A. A league. You know, league it? 20,000 leagues below the sea. A league at a nautical mile equals 7.2 regular English mile. So, 160,000 Yojana is something like, what is it? You got 108,000 miles? No. It's 112. 112,000 approximately. Approximately 112.

[06:47]

No, no. It's 1,120,000 miles. And it has no particular, it has no boundary that you can talk about. It's very wide. This big wing dip at the bay, which sort of somehow had the bottom, but doesn't really have side. Think of this big table, okay? And this width right here is about a million miles. A million miles. No, no, I don't think. No, that's not it.

[07:52]

You'll see in a minute. So just picture first the big disk like this, but not even bigger than that. And then in the middle of this disk is this other cylinder, okay? Maybe like that. And now the next disk has some finite diameter. It's half as tall as the other. Oh, excuse me, I meant this wrong. It's 1,000,000, 1,600,000 yards. This is called the circle of wind. The circle of wind. Next one is...

[08:59]

800 dollars. John is thick. And the width diameter is 100, no, 1 million, 200 dollars. We have John. It's called this circle of water. in the circle of gold. Same width. And it's 320,000. The last circle, which is the circle you see here, Oh, circle of gold.

[10:06]

The next one, in the circle of earth, not the one you see here. In fact, even that's drawn a little thin, I'm sure. This is supposed to be 80,000. The diagram won't work, but you get 80,000. You got John, that circle of courage. Okay, then, um, Montemaro, um, this is a This is 100, this is 1 million, 1 million, 200,000 people.

[11:21]

Something in the middle of this, you have Mount America, which is partly down in here. But anyway, it's like this. It's 80,000, you're a gentleman. 80,000, you're a gentleman's wide and 80,000, you're a gentleman's tall. And the tarot, on the base, the base tarot, they capped at 40,000 years down. Now, in this diagram here that you have, there's heavens going out up here.

[12:33]

These haven't, you know, of course, they're not really located anywhere like that. But this is the way to conceive of them and keep them the kind of way to think about where they are. This picture will remind you of their experiential bordering. You could do it some other way, but this is the way they visualize the universe. the universe of experience, the state of retribution, the heavenly blissful retribution. And that way of representing the moon coming up through here, coming up through this experience and then to sort of fanning out into infinite bliss. So this is a world, this is a world whole thing.

[13:58]

And what's pictured in this diagram is this top part here. It's top from here up. We don't picture this material down here. It's a whole world system. It's kind of like a, basically a cylinder with this little, with this big mountain on top of it. And that's another, another dip underneath it. And with multiple world systems, they're laid out and they're said, we can work if we don't achieve it. And it depends on whether they're lined up in a plane, or whether they're off the staff. So this is a, I see the world. This is described in this chapter, later in this chapter.

[15:13]

Could you speak up, please? From the point of view of the Abhidharma, I don't think any of the destinies, none of the destinies, those are not the destinies, except they're not the destinies. However, they are the same kind of karma as the destiny. What kind of karma? Do you know what kind of karma the destinies are? And what's the value of that karma? Do you know the value of that kind of karma? It's karmic value. Do you know the values that karma comes in? It comes in three basic values. but which one of these are these retributions?

[16:38]

Neutral? What kind of neutral? Right. So these worlds are... What? Huh? Are they retribution? Huh? Are they retribution? No, they're not. Retribution is called in Sanskrit, what? What? Speak up, please. Vipaka what? Vipakapala. That's what retribution is called. What? This stuff. Atipatipala. Who makes Atipatipala? Everyone. This is The retribution is personal. The retribution is personal.

[17:41]

It comes to individuals. Retribution goes to a life stream. Retribution doesn't go to everybody. But this is the same karmic quality as retribution. It's undefiled neutral. But everybody makes it, so it's not retribution. It's called atipati power. You know, the predominant, the dominant fruit. which is the physical world, which everybody makes and everybody shares, but it's just like, it kind of feels like, it feels just like retribution field. This is what retribution feels like, right? It's just experience, you just receive it. You receive the sun in the morning and the moon at night, just like you receive a cold and receive a tingle in your toe. and receive your ability to hear the wind bell. But the wind, the sound you receive and the ability to hear it, you receive.

[18:42]

The sound you receive through your ability to hear, which is retribution, but the sound itself, atipatipala. Okay? So this, all this stuff, although no destinies are down here, these are not destinies. They do We do make them. We do make this whole physical universe. And this is part of it. Dominant, predominant, major. Okay, anything else?

[19:44]

Okay. Uh, well, we could just, uh, I don't know if there's any questions. We can read, uh, start reading Karka 3a. The Arukya does not have places. In fact, the immaterial dharmas do not occupy a place. Material dharmas, when they are past and future, the other is nyapti, the immaterial dharmas are a-get-patta. Which means, a, you don't have a place. Huh? What? Without a place. out of place or absentee. Any questions?

[20:49]

Okay, could someone read the next character and the commentary? Do you know what that means? I don't know. What? Do you know what part of it means? Akasha means space, and what does Dhyatna mean? Yeah. So the door of arrival of the first of the arupia modes of existence is the infinity or the unlimitedness of space, the boundlessness of space.

[21:55]

So akasha, boundlessness, ayatana. The door of production of this situation, of this mode of existence is the concept of the boundlessness of space. Yeah? Yeah, that's boundlessness. What is it? It's A-N-A-N-T-Y-A. Okay, next one. Anybody know what that one means? Boundlessness of consciousness. And what does the next one mean?

[23:02]

means nothing whatsoever. What does the next one mean? Neither perception nor non-perception. So, the situation that these come up is, one has actually mastered, you've already become very good at the rupajana meditation, so good that you could have attained the fourth rupajana. So this is, these meditations, I mean, if you just sit down now and try to think of the infinity of space, that won't really be, you're thinking of the infinity of space, but it won't be the ayatana for entering the first rupajana, unless you can also do the fourth In other words, you have to obtain a level of concentration and a level of experience in the rupajana meditations to have, you know, worked your way up, put aside ordinary kamadhatu and then put aside various levels and enjoyments of the rupadhatu.

[24:37]

And when you can do that and you have that skill, then all you need to do is think of the infinity of space with that very concentrated mind, and you will enter the first rupajhana, and so on. So these are just concepts. Just all you do is think of the concept, and these will happen. But unless you have that level of concentration, you won't be, thinking of the concept won't have that, it won't really do anything of this magnitude. So all kinds of, a lot of yogic feats. As a matter of fact, you were reading about them this morning, did you notice? In the pancha? I just found the body dharma in there. And one of them said, talking about the super-knowledges, which are retribution. Did you see that? In other words, super-knowledges are retribution. After you attain these, after you can attain the top of the, the top rupa jhana, form, fine form realm,

[25:46]

concentration. Then, if you direct your attention to certain areas, as a result of that, you get these super-knowledges. They're something that comes to you by virtue of your action. Just like these bursts, these heavenly bursts, also come as retribution from these jhanas. Then once you can do these jhanas, if you direct your attention towards some particular phenomena, like sounds, sights, your ideas of your past, and your ideas of other people's past, your awareness of your relationship between your thoughts and your gestures, and so on, you can develop the superpowers of divine eye, divine ear, recollection of past births, knowledge of others' thoughts, and the ability to jump long distances. pop out of the earth and dive back into the earth, and these kinds of things, flying, et cetera.

[26:50]

But they're just like the heavens that we're talking about. It's just that now, in addition to the heavens, you take up additional kind of, what do you call it, graduate work or something. or you specialize in something after you get your basic degree of rupajana meditation. Okay? And you can also enter these, as a result of rupajana meditations, you can also enter these formless realms if you wish. And in these formless realms, you can taste in the world, at the top of the formless realms, you can taste in the world the mundane experiences which are closest, their description will be the closest to the words that people say about nirvana. But they are not nirvana. Why?

[27:56]

That's one reason. What? Not necessarily of yourself. They're conditioned. And what are they conditioned by? They're caused by meditation. That's why they're not nirvana. Nirvana is not caused. But you wouldn't have to have that. You can drop the idea of self and still do these. Let's say a Buddhist is doing these, all right? Who doesn't attach the idea of self, all right? They're still conditioned states. They're still produced by certain causes and conditions. The difference between them and nirvana is nirvana is not caused. Nirvana doesn't come and go. It's not produced by meditation anymore than it's produced by distraction.

[28:58]

But these are never produced by distraction. No one who's distracted will get in these spaces. These people would say, I am concentrated. boy, this is really concentrated stuff. And then you just, it's like jet fuel, you know? So that people would think that they're, that they're consuming this highly concentrated mind, they could perform these feats. And you wouldn't have to test yourself to do that. It'd just be a way of thinking. You just think, this is really concentrated, and you get this, But now that I'm concentrated, I can watch my breath back infinitely. You can do that. It's like cocaine or something. High-powered stuff, except it's very stable.

[30:01]

And you can do it as long as you wish. It's conditioned, but as long as you have food in your stomach, you can keep doing it. not putting your stomach to the bone, you've got a body, you can do it. That's why it's conditioned now. We're interested in these things because one of the best Buddhist exercises is to enter these realms, especially the top of the Arita Datu, enter that realm, see it, and know and remember how you got there. And remember that even this is due to causes and conditions. If you can see that that realm is due to causal conditions, that's one of the ways that Mahayana Buddhists talk about really obtaining nirvana, is to enter these very high... So this is a yogic way of having insight into Buddhist truth. This is what you might call yogic chakra. Not mine only, but yogic chakra.

[31:04]

In other words, the yogic way, you kind of make a yogic... example. And then you say, even this yogic example, where I'm living now, where there's not even perception, and you can't even say there's non-perception either. This situation is also, I'm not fooled by that. This is also just causes and conditions. So you need to be able to practice yoga to get the chance to see that and not be fooled by it. It's quite a good yogi. But you can see that without if you see that for ordinary state of consciousness, too, if you see it for an ice cream cone, if you're not fooled by an ice cream cone, you also attain the same understanding. It's just a lot of, a lot of people, I mean, people think that they don't believe an ice cream cone, but it is, you know, it's hard for them, it's not, it's harder, but that,

[32:07]

That's where Zen masters do it. They do it on ice cream cones, generally. And sometimes they go up and do it in those realms, too. What's the point of studying this material here? Because there's beings up there. And some beings can't... Some beings, unless they knew about this, if they heard about people who were up there and thinking it was nirvana... It would be more difficult for them to say.

[33:08]

It is less difficult for them to say, oh, I know those things. Well, those are also due to causes and conditions. You can find out for the person then. And you can explain to the person what they did to get into this state, and then you'll see, oh, that's right, I did do that, that, and that. That's right. So it is conditions. Oh, thank you. Everything that anybody would tell you about you would know is due to cognitive conditions, but it's convenient to know that you can actually attain understanding on the kama datu level. It'd be helpful to know those. But also, some people can't attain knowledge at the kama datu level. They need to go up there to clear something up. They can't. So they don't. They're not able to. But then they have to come back down to kama datu and clear it up there. So some people have to be quite advanced yogis before they can do Mahayana Buddhism. Other people don't have to be.

[34:13]

There's all kinds of karmic lineages that we have. Some people have to yogically quell themselves greatly before they can... Some people have to attain great yogic development before they can understand simple Buddhist truth. Other people don't have to attain such... They have a yoga attainment, but they don't have to go through in this life all kinds of exercises. So, again, I would say that some people need to have these experiences. Other people, it's just convenient to know them because if you hear about them, you're not fooled by it. You know that these things happen and that they also are conditioned, even though they sound just like Nirvana. These things sound like the ordinary world looks to a person who has insight. They're very similar in your description.

[35:14]

But if you analyze the cause with your conditions, you see that one is unconditioned and the other is conditioned. One's just seeing things the way they already were without doing anything to them. The other one's a state that's produced. That's not really seeing things like they are. This particular state has that quality. So it's like walking into a room where everything's just, everything's just set up to be like reality. And to get into that room, I mean, you have to, you know, you'd have to, you'd have to walk over to the room and open the door and walk in. You might even have to pay $1.50 to get in, who knows? But it could be something that you have at a very highly developed circus or museum or something. It's a reality room. Just walk in and there it is. And not everyone in the world would go in that room. Only certain people that were interested who were in that city where that room was would go in. So then they come back and they tell a meditator, a Zen meditator in some other city, they say, I've seen what you're talking about.

[36:24]

And the person says, well, what What do you mean you saw? He said, well, I went there and I went in the ring. He said, that's caused by the fact that you went in the room and the people set that room up and so on. If they took the building down, it wouldn't be there anymore. Or actually, what you saw is the way everything is. For example, look at this. See that? Can you see it there? It's there too. But some people go there and when they don't fall for that, they come back here and they see, oh, yes, it's here. But some people's roof. Other people, it's just convenient to be able to tell them that that wasn't it. What happened to someone like that? Now you may say, how often do people fall into this room and find this museum? Well, not too often, but these are special people that find this museum. They're gifted, actually. And if you just tell them about it, oftentimes it's just that word, isn't it? So if you look at the story of Buddhist teachers, Lots of great yogis come to Buddhist teachers and they have great yogic attainment.

[37:34]

And all the teacher has to do is just turn one little switch and they enter Buddhism right then. They've actually set the stage with lots and lots of good karma. So all you have to do is just change one little dial or turn one little switch around, change one little attitude, and they already understand. They've actually seen a whole bunch of stuff, and they've worked their way through. So their mind's very clear and good, but they just haven't heard the right point yet. But when they hear it, they just say, oh, dang. Other people don't have that kind of experience, but they hear a lot more good words. They hear a lot more in-flight statement. They clarify the amount of influence. And within Zen, you can't say that Zen does one or the other because if you look at the history of who has come to study Zen, some people have lots of yoga in the background and some people don't.

[38:40]

Some people are trained as Confucian scholars. Some people are trained as Jesuits. Some people are trained as... Some people have no education. Some people are wrestlers. Some people are swordmen. and so on. People have various skill and samadhis behind them. And one of the things about Zen, if anything, is typical of it, is that it could take people from a wide variety of backgrounds and give them whatever practice was necessary to turn them over. To know this kind of material is helpful in case you run into these kinds of people. A great Zen master actually would very likely run into these people. In other words, great yogis from all over a large area would have some trouble, you know. They're doing pretty well, but somehow something's not working out. And so, why don't you go see that venga? They go over there, and he knows where they're at.

[39:48]

And they convert. I guess I already said this, but it's also to protect yourself in case you should actually do these practices and fall into these states to protect yourself from thinking, mistaking it from the bone. And the lower you go on this jhanic scale, the higher the population of the people who who attained it. But although the higher population also, the less likely that they'll fall for it, the highest is the most tempting. Because it is literally, it's the most tempting state. The Bavagra is the most tempting worldly state to attach to. It's the most excellent form of mundane existence. Yeah, it seems to be, although I, it's hard, it does not, you know, it seems like the bhavaga is kind of like a penthouse on top of the, on top of the aripadatta.

[41:13]

I'm not, you know, it's not clear to me. Sometimes it sounds like they're saying that it is the port. Sometimes they're saying it's on top of the port. I'm not clear at all. But it's not called nirota samapati when it's done by Patajanus. It's called asamnika samapati. But experientially it's the same. It seems to be the same. It's from the fourth rupa. But non-Aryans can get up to the top of the arukidatu.

[42:18]

That's why I think that bhavagra is a little bit different because they say that only Aryans can get into bhavagra. So what's the difference? Maybe bhavagra is the way non-Aryans feel about the fourth arukidatu meditation experience. Maybe that's what it is. Yeah. So it's like, it's not exactly equivalent to that trance, because a Patageness can attain it. But when an Aryan gets up into that experience, the way they are is called the Vagra. Even though experientially it's the same as the fourth Rupa Jhana. And it's from that state... that if you're not understanding of that way of being in a formless attainment, it's from there that you can enter into mineralism opportunity.

[43:26]

All right. So, three sets Seems to make sense right now. Or bhavagra, constitute the rupyadhatu which is thus of four sorts. By existence, let us understand the appearance of skandhas in a new existence by reason of action. It is not by the same action that one obtains these various ayatanas which are superior ones to the others. Is it not by the same action one team these various options which are superior the one to the others? There should be a question mark there, shouldn't there? Hmm?

[44:36]

It is not. Oh, it is not. Oh, it isn't. But its superiority does not include differences of stage in a place in which die the person who possesses meditation which produces an existence of arupia. There's a Y in there. Maybe not. Maybe not. Usually there's a Y-A, P-Y-A, but maybe that's only when it's an adjective. Here's another Y. In this place, begins the existence in question. In this place, at the end of this existence, will form the intermediate being called to take up the new existence, Kamadatu or Rupadatu. By existence, let us understand the appearance of skandhas.

[45:59]

Okay. it is quadrupled by its mode of existence. So the rubidhatu is quadrupled by its mode of appearance of skandhas. The appearance of skandhas in this is the three types of skandhas. And new existence means that when you enter into the this kind of existence called formlessness. In a sense, you get a new existence, you get a new set of skanda, namely you lose one, skanda, actually. So it's saying, and it's basically saying that think of this as, although this is existence, it's still existence of skanda. And it's a new existence because actually you get new skandas when you go into this realm.

[47:04]

You can drop one. By reason of action, which is meditation. The meditation that you did has produced this new existence. What? Could you speak up, please? It is not by the same action that one obtained these various diatenus. In other words, you do different actions to obtain the different births. You do one kind of meditation to get one, do another kind of meditation to get another. It's not the same meditation to get these four different states. However, that was not true in the previous case, remember? And you see in the Rubajat, doctor, you can do one meditation to get into all four states.

[48:07]

You can use one meditation object You do the same meditation, same ascent. And what you do in that case is you, in the form realm, you just keep refining certain things like certain attachments to the experience. So you drop off the Tarkin Vichara in the first form, fine material. Then you drop enrapturement. Then you drop pleasant feelings, and then finally you gain equanimity. So there's a, there's a dharmic evolution in the material realm. But in the al-rupya, you don't have this evolution. There's no dharmic changes that are necessary. Actually, you change meditation objects. So you're doing, each one does a different meditation. Each one has a different action, whereas the other cases, it really is a different action, but it's, it's more just that you drop

[49:09]

It's really the same action but with different dharmas. Here, it's different action. With who knows what kind of dharma, it doesn't matter. You've attained such concentration that it doesn't matter too much. Certain dharmas won't be able to be there anyway, but that's not the point. You're quite concentrated now, and you just turn your attention towards these different meditations. Any other questions? One object? Yeah, it's one concept. So the first one is the, yeah, you're thinking of the infinity of space. That's that one. Your mode of existence is that thought. That's the way you exist. And it's just concept. There's no form to it.

[50:10]

It's just your idea. You live in a world of your concepts. Pure conceptual existence. So the gods that are born, the divine existences that are born out of this meditation are quite powerful. And at the top of it, you're so powerful in terms of your imagination that you just, you know, as I said in the punching the other morning, I pointed out you can just think of what you want, and that's it. Now, that's the same as the bodhisattva, who thinks of what they want and they get it. But that's the same as everybody. Everybody thinks of what they want and they get it.

[51:11]

And bodhisattvas know that And so they're very helpful to people because they know that you always think of what you want. When you think of what you want, you've got it. You've got the thing you want. That's what you wanted. You wanted to think of it. There's nothing else that you get. The bodhisattvas do it that way. What these people do is, through yogic power, they come to say, well, now because of my yogic power, I can do that. But the problem is that they don't realize that they could do it before they did any yoga. Because always whenever you think of anything, you have it. You don't want anything else in what you're thinking of. What you want is what you're thinking of. That's what you want. You don't want something else. And you never get anything else either. Bodhisattvas know that. They just see it that way. It's just clear to them. These yogis, they know it when they get in the yogi state. They know that they can do it, but they don't know that it's already there. Their power is like that of a great bodhisattva.

[52:16]

And that's, as you remember, in the pancha last week, they compared these beings as their top, top heaven here. They compared them to these bodhisattvas and mahasattvas. So the bodhisattva and mahasattva, with or without yogic powers, has the same abilities as the yogi. What's the difference between dreams? Yeah. Between dreams and characters? It is. It's very similar.

[53:17]

The same kind of It's the same type of ability. It's just that one is more vivid and powerful than the other. And one you can do with your eyeball thing. And one lasts longer and you can control it for hours and hours and hours. Whereas in dream, you lose control. And if someone comes and shakes you, you'll lose it. But it's the same basic thing. Projection of It's thought power. But if you look back, you realize you're a yogi for a long time. Yep. Yep. Yes, you do.

[54:28]

Yes. Personal theories is a way of thinking. And personal theories is due to the ability at this moment to think that you had a past, and to think of what that past might be. The strange thing is that most people are rather foggy about what it might be, even though they think that there is one. The one they think they have is a foggy one. But whatever fogginess it is, that's the kind of person they think they are. People who are very clear, they'll be very clear about what the personal series is, but they still think it's a personal series. Personal series, you know, personal series, personal series, as you know what, just brought to teachers. But personal series is a way you can think.

[55:42]

You can think of personal series. And because you can think of personal series, you can project karma. Personal series is the way, is the way the current machinery works. The line of thinking that you can do. dropping that style of thinking is not that you stop thinking that way, but rather that in the midst of thinking that way, you realize it's just simply nothing more than thinking that way, that it has no reality other than the thought of it. If you actually stop thinking your personal theories, you stop being a human being. As long as you're incarnated, You are the results of thinking that way. And to stop thinking that way is to stop functioning in the middle of the karma which you've created, which is another dream which your personal series will inherit.

[56:47]

There's no way to get out of it by just trying to stop it. What you do is actually see how this thing works. But actually, by virtue of this kind of... you know, idea of continuity and so on, that we have karmic possibilities, that we can create a world. So we have all these meditations which are basically saying, okay, you think this way, well, look at the way you think. You have Skanda way of thinking. Skandas talk about one way you can think. Datus talk about another way you can think. Ayatanas talk about another way you can think. And this meditation on the various gutties and intermediate existence is another way you can think. We do think that way, and so we can make karma. To drop it is not to stop that kind of thinking, but to see that it's just that. And because you do this, then you have this, and so on. So, changing from one birth to another, your skandas get reorganized each time you change. But the skandas then, the personal series, Inherit, acquires these new skandas.

[57:50]

That just means, as we've been studying, that each moment has a different set of dharmats. it's not like you don't have the names of the five skandas change. It's not like you, you know, that there isn't the same five skandas. The same names, same categories are still there. But the contents of each category will change, you know. So if you're in the Kamadatu, you see things like this. If you're in the Rupadatu, you don't see people and chairs and tables anymore. The contents of the Rupadatu will change. If you're angry in the Kamadatu, If you go to the rupadhatu, you won't be angry anymore. This is not anger in the rupadhatu. You have to do a certain kind of meditation, which makes it not possible to do that anymore. If you go to the rupadhatu, you still have problems, but that's not one of them. The Ascandas change. You take a new birth, even while you have the same basic inheritance in this life.

[58:56]

The Yaskanas are changing all the time, and they're just pointing out here that there's a major reorganization when you change realms. It's quite significant. It's a whole different style of life. And it's produced by strong compulsion, which is a compulsive, obsessive compulsive meditation. Which again, obsessive compulsive meditation is just what we already are doing, obsessive compulsive meditation. This just sort of recognizes that we're doing that and shows you what happens when you do that. Very clear, you know, Walt Disney example of it. This is very clear. So it's beneficial to do these meditations because you learn how your mind works. Very helpful. But the fact that the mind's working this way, that's not reality. any more than that it worked the other way.

[60:02]

So when you go back to the Kamadatta, it's not like you're too bad or something. You think it's too bad. You say, oh darn. But that's part of the way your mind works. And that's what's useful, that you see all these possibilities. See how it works. That's what Buddhism is talking about. Reading from whatever realm you're in and understanding how you move about in all these different situations. Okay. Anything else at this point? Okay. I'd say nothing whatsoever or something like that. The concept of? The concept of. You see, and that's still a little bit more substantial than not even quite being sure that it isn't nothing whatsoever, or, and also not, not not knowing that, sort of.

[61:07]

So the next stage is you, you don't really know that it's nothing whatsoever anymore, even. That's even too much, you know, this is nothing, it's nothing whatsoever, I mean. Then that still has, sort of, kind of, get a little bit definite, sort of thinking, know what's happening, you know, a little bit. But then the next stage is, in the middle of nothing whatsoever, you're not quite sure of it anymore. It's not that you're sure you don't know either. Because that would be another definite position to take on it. That was or wasn't. That you knew or you didn't or you could perceive or you couldn't. It's those concepts that get you into reproductive Once you're into Arugadatta, you can wail away. For example, you can say, I finally made it.

[62:12]

You can't say, you don't speak English there, but you can sort of feel like... You can think that, you know. Of course, you don't have any hands to do it with, or eyes to smile with, or anything, but you sort of feel like, you might feel like, in some non-verbal way, like, at last, total bliss. Unobstructed, unhindered. Unhindered even by the thought that I know that I'm unhindered. This is really, sounds exactly like nirvana. I think I got it, folks. You know, not even obstructed by saying so, right? So you could think those kinds of things. Non-verbal concepts of how wonderful it is. Just, you know, I'm telling you, you're really flying up there. But that's not what gets you in.

[63:13]

What gets you in are these four concepts. They're the ones which, if you zero in on those very clearly, they will give you entry into these lofty states of mundane existence. That's why they're called ayatanas. Ayatanas mean this is the name of a meditation. If you do it, it shows you the way of birth into something, gives you entry into how things happen. Okay, could someone read from the material series through the material series Thought and Mentals? material beings, points itself upon matter, rupa, and this matter, if it can exist, what will be the base?

[64:23]

Okay, so this is, remember back in, remember Sabhaga Nikaya? Remember that thing? Karka 41, chapter 2. See, this is not only going to use that as a point of support in this realm. See, Abhidharma says you have to, consciousness has to have a point of support. So you know the point of support for Kamadatu and Rupadatu. But what's the point of support here? The point of support here is this Nikayasa Bhaga. So now this is explaining, you know, how... In other words, how could you even have existence up there if you don't have the usual stuff to support it? Because everything has support. Let's put this to explain. Okay? Could you read some more, please? The mental theories of material being does not rest upon the two daughters,

[65:49]

The next of the period of the material being, that's a perfect period of the seeds of one meditation, on which the notion of matter that . What do you think? The genre and the vital organ of the material being, rest upon that. What will be for the material being? The point is the form of the genre of the vital organ. These terms of the The material key, which are in the vital order, do not have efficient training to support each other. They have this power in the material because they receive from a certain education. The political system, the network series, block the network, does not end material training, shall be allowed. Or let us say that God rests upon the levels of thought.

[66:56]

Let us say that the genre in the Bible will be just to uncheck it. A series of thoughts that I knew existed was protected by a chip card, action, action, conversation. This part did not attempt to cast a matter of murder. The clock will be before and with matter. And the series will wrap the time back. But if this clock begin, that's the case with the navigation of the clock. The clock will be before and with the information. With matter. You should add with matter. Unless you know, then you don't have to add it. Any questions about this? Anyway, this tells you what it's about.

[68:01]

It's very good stuff. It's kind of sitting like this. If you look at it, they aren't aware of it. The person stays where they are. The individual's not, well, left it. You haven't really left it, but you're not aware of it anymore. Just like when you're dreaming, you're not aware of your body so much. Like that. It's like when you sleep, in that sense. But you don't go anyplace. And the difference is that you're probably sitting still in this trance. But if you watch somebody in this trance, they wouldn't be moving. When you feel pain, if you slap this by the ear, they wouldn't hear it.

[69:12]

But if you did the, you know, the ear drum would wiggle. If you slap their face, it would make a sound. Things like that. They're just too much there as they were before, but they don't think about, they're not attached to matter anymore. The reason why you have matter is because you're attached to it. Not because it's really there, it's because you want it. So because you want it, you've got it. If you don't want it anymore, you're not attached to it, then it's not that it goes away, because there's still karma which has produced it. You've still produced it. But you're not attached to it anymore. And not being attached to it anymore is an active non-attachment. It is an obsessive compulsive. It's not just that you're free from it. A Buddhist is free from their body. Being free from your body means you can be aware of it or not aware of it. Take a choice. It depends on your feelings. You're free of it. Do whatever you want. These people are not attached to it, but the way they're not attached to it means different than just being free of it.

[70:17]

It means that they are actively not attached to it. In other words, they're looking in another direction. They're looking at stuff that doesn't even bring it into account. They're thinking of a world where form is non-existent. Okay? So when they say non-attachment, they say not attached. Actually, they say it's exempt from from attachment. Okay? You're exempt from attachment. And you're exempt from attachment because the cause with the meditation which was the cause which projects the existence. So your meditation projects an existence because the thought was exempt from attachment to matter. That's an active way of thinking. You're actually thinking that way. So that thinking produces this state. And so That's why if somebody looks like this, you don't hear it because you're actually really strongly thinking of a world where you're not into that stuff. You project yourself away from that stuff. So in that way, I guess you can say you leave your body.

[71:20]

You turn in another direction to another world. Very strongly, very powerfully, very concentratedly. You create for yourself a world where there's no form. Part of it, you come back. Your body's still there. You come back. And there you are again. You know, the trance is over. You're back in the kamadatu with your body. Well, doing these meditations, the activity of doing this kind of meditation is very good for your body. I mean, it's very restful. It makes you nice, makes you soft and... It's very good karma to do this kind of stuff. It's good for your health. It can make you nice. It can make you soft and pliable and powerful and stop tooth decay. It's really good.

[72:23]

It's really excellent. If you want to talk about the way to live, this is the best way to live as far as karma goes. If you live a karmic existence, you can just go right up to Bhavagra. hang out there well actually not bhavagra because if you're in bhavagra you're not living karmic existence only the Aryans can be in bhavagra which is non-karmic but if you can live karmic existence just go up to the top of the rupa doctor and stay there as much as you can as soon as you come down go back up again have a little lunch and go back the best place to be if you're going to be karmic so it's very good for your body but just the coming back doesn't doing your body just coming back except you're aware of your body but it doesn't your body it's not like you I don't know exactly but it's not like you sort of come back it's not like land that you just it's over it's over the projection is over

[73:34]

But while you're there, it's very good for you. That's right. People do it. They keep it up for up to 100 years. This is also due. That's right. It's a good point. This is also due to concentration. People are very concentrated. and have projected this existence, and we keep projecting this existence. This is kept up, too, by the same kind of stuff. By thinking. Same stuff. Same stuff. It's just that if you want to get into quality existence, quality coming, this stuff is higher quality. I mean, it's just... It's got everything. This is God. All the fun stuff is there, but none of the unfun stuff. You don't have any obstructions.

[74:38]

You can have whatever you want. Now, there's certain things that you can want here that you can't want there because they just don't have them. They don't have kneecaps up there. So they're just out. But you don't want what doesn't even exist. All the stuff that's there that you might want, as soon as you want it, you've got it at the top of this arukidatu. So you're just unobstructing bliss. It has some drawback, though. Only lasts for a certain amount of time. And it still is limited. And those, the subtle ones, the Aryans, they still consider it to be the best possible rest place. If they want to take a vacation, that's where they always go. But it is still conditioned existence. And it has a flaw of conditioned existence still. From most people's point of view, it would be, from everyone's point of view, it's the highest bliss, mundane bliss.

[75:42]

Is it entertainment? It's the best attainment. Detainment will change the skandas. To go up there is changing the skandas, but to come back doesn't change the skandas, except I mean, here you are, you go up there and you come back, you're basically the same, except you've just done some good karma. Yes, it would. They didn't think that they changed them. It depends on what. There's two ways to think they didn't change. One way to think that they changed is that to think that, well, they didn't really do that in the sense that they deny it.

[76:53]

Well, that would be just as bad as to think they attained it. But to see that it was just a conditioned thing and an illusion in itself, just like all others, that wouldn't do anything. And that would be the way the Aryans do that. They do it, but just through a... They say, I'll just do this. I don't really, I'm not, it doesn't matter one way or another, but if I'm doing something, I might as well do that. Not nirvana, but might as well do it. But actually, the Aryans, the Bodhisattvas, don't even necessarily do it, because they enjoy actually being an accommodatum more. They prefer to be in a heavier, more obnoxious environment, generally speaking. And occasionally, if they ever finished up down here, they would go up and clean up. there too, which they do eventually. As you see in the big sutra, they go up there too. They like even the rich people. Anyway, what you say is fine. Okay, what is the explanation of these terms, kamadatu and so on?

[77:57]

I'm going to read that, please. Do you understand that? This is important. I'll be down to turn to saying two meanings for Datu. One is like a carrier, and that's the meaning here, okay? The meaning here is like a carrier of stuff, like a carrier of karma, or a carrier of rupa, and a carrier of arupya, like a vessel, okay? The other meaning for Dhatu is the interesting one that Vatsubandhu introduces in Chapter 1, that Dhatu is like a lineage. or it's like a mind, out of which a lineage can be drawn.

[79:13]

So in one sense, it's a dhatu as a kind of realm to consider, and in the other case, it's a dhatu as a kind of sense of where we get the concept, or where we get into the problem of lineage, or continuity of existence. And one of Vatsubandhi's special contributions to Abhidhamic meditation is that special understanding of Dhatu in Chapter 1. OK, excuse me. . This kind of thing happens a lot in Nabi-Turama.

[80:21]

Just analysis the terms to show you that although it says one thing, it really means another. Because conventionally you drop this or you add that or whatever. Probably it's better to cross out that S, isn't it? Associate with matter. What does rupana mean? What does badhana mean? Hit. Be hit. You can only hit things when they have location.

[81:22]

Okay? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So,

[82:30]

the desire for food by the mouthful, or sex in the sense of sex with, you know, breasts and knees and genitals and earlobes and noses and eyebrows and this kind of stuff. Sex that way. And food that comes, you know, in spoons and forks, that kind of food. Because there's still nutrition in the... Rupadattu, you still eat in the Rupadattu. But it doesn't come, you don't have mouths up there, and spoons and things. And there's still sex up in the Rupadattu, too. Down in the Rupadattu, over in the Rupadattu, there's still sex, but it's different. There's no genitals. In the sense of the Kamadattu. So people who want... food by the mouthful and genital sex, even if they don't even know about the genitals, they get born in the kamadhatu.

[83:39]

And the idea here is we'll see that the intermediate being sees beings having sexual intercourse, or anyway, some kind of sexual activity going on. And if they see one that looks interesting, they think it's interesting, they get born into that room. So you may not know about the sex organs, because you may not be able to see them, but it's sort of just like the vibrations coming off the scene. Cows give off one kind of vibration, cunions give off another one, and so on. And if the being likes that kind of vibration, they get born into that kind of destiny. His part, you don't have to be born, you can be born into Rupadatta too.

[84:44]

You could, an intermediate being could be born into Rupadatta. By watching the beings on the way God... the divine birth there, the way they have sexual interaction, you could be born there. Okay? So, Kamandatu is for beings that enjoy how hell beings or, I don't know if hell beings can do it, but humans and animals, the way that they the vibration or the feeling or whatever that they give off, you're attracted to that. And if you like vibration best, you tend to be a man. If you like better, you tend to be a woman.

[85:48]

So you get to be the opposite of the vibration that you're attracted to. You know about that? This lady, this Himalayan lady, she said, you know, like, girl babies' hearts beat faster, a lot faster than boy babies. And they don't weigh less when they're born. But their hearts beat faster. And anyway, this lady who lives in Himalayan's, She says, women are like goldsmiths. They're always going... They're tapping away, making their double. Works apart. Men are more like blacksmiths. Mostly sit around, you know, the blacksmith shop. They go up and go, what? So...

[86:54]

When these two rhythms are in sexual union, if the intermediate being likes it, they get to be a man. They come out as a man. Everybody's basically kind of dizzy at the time, but there's various degrees of dizziness. That sounds like a slur on certain types of people, but it does seem to have that implication. Well, anyway, now next we'll talk about, you can read about these ajivakas. Before you go, I want to tell you something. Ajivakas that they're talking about here, these are people that follow special rules, you know, follow special rules with regard to livelihood. They're religious mendicants of the, they're giant mendicants.

[87:57]

These are jivikas. They're followers of Goschala, Makala Putra. So what they're talking about here is a certain kind of mendicant that follows certain rules. And that's what the idea is about. They're jain mendicant. Jain. Jain. Right here it says, Chariputra says to the Ajivaka, the next part, that's what we're just reading. So just continue reading there and we'll discuss this. This material is rather not too difficult, but it's actually quite fundamental. And the Buddhist understanding of this stuff keeps popping out and it's just quite useful, I think.

[89:00]

So we'll just start there on... I thought you felt to be at Jeevaka next time.

[89:05]

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