Chapter 3, is that right? Did you receive a little drawing of Mount Samara? Yes, that one. Well, it might be nice to do. It doesn't take too long. If the machine's on, do it if it's not. So the name of this, as you know, the name of this chapter is the world.

[01:04]

And what is the world comprised of? What is the world comprised of? Three realms. And what are those realms? Kamadatu, Rupadatu, Harupyadatu.

[02:30]

Is there anything else besides these? Realms. Five destinies. Are the five destinies held within three daughters? Are the completely within three daughters? Sure. It's in the world besides these three daughters. And what kind of stuff is in these doctors?

[03:41]

What kinds of things go in these doctors? What? Changing beings go in these doctors? And what are human beings? What? We? We? What are we? Yes? Sex, matter, and non-matter. What? Sex, matter, and non-matter. Sex, matter, and non-matter. This is sex. This is matter, confusion. And non-matter. So what's sex? Creation. What's creation?

[04:45]

Hypnistudicent reporter here. What goes under commandatu or sex? Gross matter. Gross matter. And what is gross matter? Sense fields and sense objects. What else goes under? what are destinies what is retribution no but what retribution what is what what okay so what's what is retribution

[06:08]

Now, let's just stop for a second. Do you notice sort of where this conversation is going? It's trying to refine itself, but it's not making it. Oh, yes, it did. What line refined itself? At one point, it refined itself to the culmination of Abhidharma and refinement. Where did it refine itself to that point? Right. And what was the conclusion of that tendency or that line? I asked questions, and I got answers. And at one point, I stopped asking questions about something, and then I switched to another, asked some other questions.

[07:16]

Did she notice? So where he stopped the analysis, you said matter, finally. Then he said what it meant by matter, gross matter. Then I stopped that. I said, what else? Did you see? In other words, as I asked you what the stuff was, you gave answers, and I kept asking you what the stuff was, and I kept asking you what your stuff was, but finally when he said that, I stopped asking you. I didn't say, what are those? I could have, but then we just got the definition of them, which we've already done. So, see, that's where Abhidharma takes you. It takes you down to, we say, what is common doctrine? And Della says it's people, for one thing.

[08:17]

And what's that? Pam said it's gross matter, which is not actually what people are. People are what? Human, human, what? It's being, and what is being comprised of? What? Paiskandas. Paiskandas? And you name one of them. And then he said destiny. So now do the same thing with destiny. What are the destinies? He said retribution. What's retribution? That's more than that.

[09:26]

What? Yeah, we already said that. It's a certain group of diamonds. What group of diamonds is it? It's undefiled neutral dharmas. What dharmas are those? What? What? Conditioned dharmas. Conditioned dharmas? Yeah. Anyway, he said form, then he said what form was, okay?

[10:39]

Now, if someone says, people, humans are form, is that right? According to Abhidharma? Partly. Partly? Which part? They're more than form. They're more than form, and what else? Less than form. What's the more than and what's the less than? That's right. So the destiny is five skandhas. So I said, what else besides form? And he didn't say what else. He actually said something which included form already. A better answer would have been the other four skandhas is what there is in the common doctor. Plus what? Plus anything? Anything else?

[11:45]

No? You agree? Nothing else in the common doctor besides that? No, besides five skandhas. Well, yes and no. But to make it easier, anything besides the twelve ayatanas and the eighteen datus? That's for sure there's nothing more than that. Yes? What? That's why I switched to 12 Ayatanas, or 18 Datus, because if you say 5 Skandas, then you have to decide whether you're going to say Nirvana is in, Datu, or not. If you say it isn't in there, where is it? So Nirvana really doesn't have a location, but none of some of the other dharmas don't either.

[12:48]

If you want to say, it depends on what you're going to say about whether you're going to include nirvana within the world or not. If it's included within the world, then the Paiskandas leave something out. If it's not included within the world, then there's nothing else in the common doctor but the Paiskandas. So, the kama datu is five skandhas, or twelve ayatanas. And the rupa datu is also five skandhas, or twelve ayatanas. And the arupa datu, you can say it's five skandhas, but in a sense it's only four. Because in the rupa datu, the rupa skanda, the arupa datu,

[13:49]

the rupascanda is not really present. So we're talking about this thing called the world and we're going to be talking in different ways than we've talked before. But you should be clear about what really that we're talking still about five skandhas and therefore we're still talking about seventy-five dharmas. We're still talking about twelve ayatanas and eighteen dhatus. So you shouldn't, for your own good, you shouldn't be floating along on these new terms without being grounded You should be able to ask yourself, what is this all the time? And get right back down to something that you can really experience and talk about.

[14:51]

So all these destinies and all these other things that are happening in the Kama Dattu, Rupa Dattu, and Arifu Dattu. We can always just say what they are dharmically. Okay, now, so we have five skandas here, five skandas here, five skandas here. We have experiences here. Now, another thing that shouldn't trip you up, doesn't need to trip you up, is... In the Kamadatu, we said there's destinies, all right? Destiny, which we're going to read about right now, the gati.

[15:55]

Gati means, you know, gati, gati, para, gati. It means going or gone. Gati means gone. So this gati means that place you go to. You're destined. So we have these places you go to. They're found in the Kamadatu, Rupadatu, and Arnupadatu. OK? Thank you. What else is in the Kamadatu besides it? What are these Gettis again? What are they? Hell. No, what are they? Okay, they're hell. What else? Animal. Animal.

[16:56]

Devas. Men. What? Ashuras. But Ashuras aren't listed separately in Abdarmakosha. They're listed separately in some Mahayana Buddhist texts, but they're not here. They're included. They're not included separately. Okay, Ashuras. Pray to. Pray to. Okay, and what are pretas? What? What are hungry ghosts? Or rather, make it easy for you, what is hungry ghosthood? What? That's a typical, that's an epithet for them. What is hungry ghosthood? Be exact. It's five skandas. So what is animal-hood? It's five skandas. What is human-hood? It's five skandas.

[17:58]

And what is hell? It's five skandas. And what is deva? It's five skandas. Unless the devas are up here, but we're talking about devas and the kamadatu now, so it's five skandas. So these gutis, this guti and the kamadatu, is five skandas in these five forms of five skandas. What else is in kamadatu besides these gattis? Bhavagra? Bhavagra is in the kamadatu? Bhavagra? Shared experience. Pajama loka.

[19:10]

Pajama loka, which is called in English way. Receptacle work. And what is pajama loka? It's five skandas. Is it? What? It's foreign. And what part of foreign? Shared foreign. What shared foreign? Yes? It's objects of consciousness, the physical objects of consciousness. So they overlap with five skandhas, John Maloka does. So all these, in a sense, what you have is you have all these individual beings that are five skandhas.

[20:16]

And they all overlap in Pajamaloka. We're all sort of hooked into each other through Pajamaloka. But we come into Pajamaloka in different ways, like I come into Pajamaloka this side, over here, and you come into Pajamaloka over there, and you come in this way. But we're all connected through Pajamaloka. Janaloka is formed in the vishayas. What? Vishaya means field, field of the organ, organ's playground. Okay? What kind of vishaya? Vishaya is born.

[21:17]

So beings are made up of five skandhas, and in the form of skanda, we overlap. We're actually connected to your external form. This piece of chalk, we are connected in this piece of chalk. This chalk is part of each of our experiences right now. But each of our sense organs, each of our eye organs, the capacity to see this, they are individual. So the jama loka, not only is it overlapping, the sentiment we actually make this gutty like this. The gutty should overlap. No, no, it should go like this. Maybe like this. There should be a dotted line here or something.

[22:23]

All the gutties, all these individual gutties, they all have a tiny little nerve fighter that goes into the tiny little extension that comes out into the pyjama loka. OK, so all these gutties are separate here. And they all feed, but they all have a tiny little connection to pyjama loka. So we share experience of pajama loka, and we also share in the making of pajama loka. But we do not share in the making of our own sense organs. Yes? It's also in Rupa Doctor.

[23:27]

But Pajama Loka and Kama Doctor and Rupa Doctor don't look the same. Yes? Are you saying that that place where we, I don't know exactly how to say this, I'm interested in your statement that we don't share and make sense, or that's outside of Pajama Loka? Sense organs are in here. Sense organs are part of the gutty. Karma character of gutties is what? What? Undefiled. Undefiled neutral. And what kind of karma is it? You just said a minute ago. Retribution. The eyes. ears, nose, tongue, body, sense, and mind sense, too, are due to retribution.

[24:29]

They're due to the being that possesses them, due to that being's karmic activity. But the objects of consciousness or the field of the organ are due to collective karma. All beings come. And therein, we all share the experience of it, too. It's all of our retribution. So all of us experience it. But we do not experience each other's sense organs. So in this sense, you see, Buddhism is not so kind of what you call word to use. I don't want to use the word mystical because the people who think that you can use somebody else's sense or anything are not mystical. They're just choosing another way to see the world, which is I don't know of anybody that sees it that way that's got it together.

[25:39]

But one of the misunderstandings that people often have in the neighborhood of spiritual practices is that you can see through other people's eyes. They interpret the The superpower of reading minds and knowing other people's thoughts is that you can use their organs. And there's no actual spiritual people, people with spiritual powers on the planet that I know of that do it that way. It's more like science fiction, that you're actually getting someone's, and you receive in their behalf. If you're receiving somebody's behalf, you're somebody. You're not somebody else. You can't maintain your identity and go in there and do it. Because that's just exactly what a person is. That's that person who inherited that stuff. That's all that there is to make a person is that somebody does inherit that stream. I don't know how much we should talk about this now.

[27:09]

We talked about dental twins quite a bit last summer, last spring when we were studying Parma. But let's see if I can put it simply. Basically, you can have your choice. You can either say that you've got two beings who want to be born in the same womb. And at the same time, there just happens to be two eggs available. There's always lots of sperms in that situation. So the question is how many eggs are around. Either you can say there's two beings who want to be born in a particular sex scene.

[28:15]

And it is sex that attracts the being, looks around and perceives these people in sexual activity and basically they think it's interesting what they're doing. And they want to get into that kind of scene. So they like the way cows do it and so on. If two beings choose the same scene to be incarnated through because they're interested in it, you could say that two beings want to and then one takes one egg and the other one takes another egg because the eggs are both there. And the time actually might not be the same moment. It might be the same moment, but it doesn't really matter too much whether they're half an hour apart or something. There's some space there because it's warm and sperm's going to last for a long time and so on. Of course, egg lasts for years and years. And their fertile state lasts for a while, too.

[29:20]

Anyway, they wouldn't necessarily be at the same time. Another possibility, you say, one being, could it be one being that chooses two eggs that wants to incarnate twice? And that doesn't make any sense. because one being doesn't want to be two people. So it's two beings, but two beings that choose the same limitations, same circumstances, that have very similar tastes and similar patterns. that choice determines a great deal. Among all the different possibilities of birth in the universe, you chose this one, and somebody else chose this one. That choice has a very strong determining factor.

[30:23]

And even if the twins are separated, still that choice is very powerful. And if you just go along with the choice, the two twins will be identical their whole life. But I'm suggesting to you that if two great bodhisattvas were born in one womb, that not too long after they were born, you might at certain points in time observe them to be as different from each other as any people on the planet and other times you might observe them being exactly the same because they can transcend their inheritance because they realize that they just chose this by a certain type of thinking but they did it intentionally but it's your choice you know you

[31:33]

When you finally become born, you have crossed out all kinds of possibilities and you have actually, one has actually narrowed down their thinking very precisely to get born and made a very high selection thing. You've chosen your genes. You've chosen a very complex net of limitation that's very intricately worked out. You've chosen where your eyes are going to go. You've chosen whether you're going to have eyes or not. You think you don't know that, but that's just the way you think. Bodhisattvas know that they're chewing every single gene. You choose those genes. If you didn't choose them, they wouldn't have them. You don't have to get born into these forms. You get born in them because you want all that complexity. There are simpler forms of existence then. than human.

[32:35]

And if you like them, you can have them. They have simpler gene structures and so on. So I think that unless you want to I have some specific question about that. I should go on because this will come up again later. Yes? I was wondering, is this discussion of the Chakronoka teaching and other schools teaching about the Chakronoka and the creation and sharing stories? I think You could generally say that one of the reasons why we like to study the Vaibhashika system is because the Vaibhashika system is the point of departure for almost all the other schools.

[33:47]

For the mind-only school, the citta-matra, vijnapti-matra school, for the emptiness school, the majamaka school, and for the sattrantika school. All the schools take this as a basis and go off from there. They may alter it, but they take this as a basis. There's nothing wrong with this. None of them argue with this. It's just they go next step. They analyze further. This is a natural conclusion, a natural point of analysis that the analysis can reach. And they all go through this point and found out from here. So, all schools will agree that at the level where you're saying that karma occurs, that the physical world is group or collective karma.

[34:52]

That there's individual and group karma, or individual and... Yeah, individual and group karma. Individual and dependent karma is another way it's called. Karma that depends on all other factors. So all schools will agree with that. The main difference will be in terms of what we're studying in the class on perfect wisdom. The main difference will be in how you regard this stuff. how you regard your sense organs, how you regard the objects of consciousness. That's one way to look at the difference. So the basic, and once again, the basic and in some sense is the most fundamental way in the sense of simplest or most naive, still Buddhist, way of looking at these objects is the Sarvastavadhan or the Vaibhashaka way.

[35:58]

And the other way is continue to be more sophisticated ways to regard these objects or to regard the pajama loka. But they'll all agree that we share making the pajama loka and which you have to admit. I mean, you know, to not admit it is to deny conventional reality. which is an extreme position that no one will take. No Buddhists will take. OK, so what else is in here besides Pajama Loka and Gatti? Commentator, yes.

[37:03]

What? Is that it, folks? Well, is it? This is pretty important. If this is all that's here, that means the world a certain way. Path? What is a path? exists in all three of the Datus. Okay. The path exists in all three of the Datus. It exists in all the Guttis too, doesn't it? Yes. Okay. But the path is... So, among the... We have two kinds of diamonds. We have two sets of two kinds of diamonds. We have conditioned and unconditioned. And we have pure and impure, all right?

[38:06]

The pure are called in Sanskrit. Anastrava. And the impure are called Sashrava. So in the Guttis, the Guttis are what kind? Sashrava. And among the Sashrava dharmas, Okay, so then what are the anashrava dharmas? What are the pure dharmas? The unconditioned. What else? The path. The unconditioned and the path. But the path is the same dharmas that the path is made of nothing other than the impure dharmas.

[39:10]

So the path is a way that impure dharmas work such that they're not impure anymore. So impure dharmas are dharmas which are susceptible to contamination or susceptible to outflows. And of the 75 dharmas, how many are susceptible to outflows? 72. And of those 72, when the 72 are organized in the way that's called the path, they are no longer susceptible to outflows. So they plug each other up or something. They cancel their susceptibility to contamination. So that's a way that the gattis can be. They can be the path, or they can be not the path. But what else is in the kama doctor?

[40:13]

You're missing something, which is, you know, pretty important. What kind of kama, yes? The heavens? No, the heavens are gattis. Intermediary realm is not a gatti. Okay, now this is it, all right? The hint is, what kind of karma are the Gattis? What? Neutral. Neutral. What kind of neutral? Neutral. So what else is there in the world besides undefiled neutral? Kushala and akushala. And defiled neutral. Where is it on this chart? He didn't say anything about that. What happened to the rest of the karma? Is it included in what?

[41:14]

It's a portion of one of the Skandas. This is by Skandas, okay? This is part of one of the Skandas, but what's happening out in here? That's also by Skandas. What is it by Skandas? I don't mean to criticize you, but you just described the world as just plain things happening to you. That's what you just said was always going on by saying that. In other words, you forgot about everything you do. You forgot about your whole life or your actions. You didn't say anything about that. Because gutties are not doing anything. Gutties are just when things are happening to you. It's just, gattis are just retribution. All you talked about is retribution. You forgot about all active karma.

[42:15]

That's what's not, you didn't mention. And that's called, you can call it various things, you can call it the karma buzzer. Karmic existence. And those are all those states of consciousness in the chart. All those good states of consciousness, all those bad states of consciousness, all the states of consciousness where you're going around robbing banks and getting in car accidents, and all the states of consciousness where you're sitting in the meditation hall trying to attain something good, where you're giving away your possessions, where you're helping people, and those states of consciousness where you're not doing anything particularly bad, but you're just sort of wasting your time. So basically your whole karmic life is what else is besides the gutties. It's the world by which you get born and the world you die. It's the world that brings you into this world and the kind of mind that kicks you out of this world.

[43:21]

Those collections of fire scanners are what else is there. So maybe I should have drawn it like this. Put the gutties over in here or something. And all this is where it's happening. The karma bova. Good karma, bad karma, neutral karma of the undefiled kind. I mean the defiled kind. Okay? So there's karma bova, which you might call gutty bova, And then in addition to that, there's one other kind, which you just mentioned, which is called Antara Baba.

[44:14]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_86.22