Right. Pride can be there. Pride doesn't have to be. So we're talking about what has to be there. So what we've just done is we've established the basic machinery necessary to be in these states. Is that clear? We've just said what you must have to be in these states. So you know there must be ten diamonds in order to have any of these states. And these... undefiled neutral lofty states it could be done as low as 10 and that maybe you could say that's one of the definitions of heaven is that you're just there your being is just that you have the basic equipment of experience the basic equipment of a conscious moment and no more or very little more And that's pretty pleasant.

[01:30]

Yeah. And if you look what they correspond to, they correspond to a company state which is characterized in the first case by high concentration and has positive feeling. And the next level is predominated by feeling of fracture. The next level is predominated by feeling of pleasure. And the next level is predominated by state of equanimity. Equanimity is not bliss in the sense of a positive feeling, but it's joy at being detached. But generally speaking, there are states where there's no role.

[02:44]

There's no role of the worldly kind of role. And then, in the absence of role, you have has clear concentration, or human rapturement, or cognitive feeling. Huh? In that state, there's no comment. I mean, in that state, there's no definitive, clearly definable comment to that state. That's why they're called neutral. Well, actually, even what we mean by having a state, there's no good trust. You're just sort of experiencing. taking the link, means to be. In that sense, these states are similar to, they're similar to, and they flow easily back and forth via what's called intermediate being.

[03:50]

Intermediate being, the Bardot existence, is like them in terms of atomic quality, but it's even more sort of just experiencing. Because then you haven't even sort of popped up to a particular type of variety of feelings. There's no world there either. It is not bliss. So the broader experience isn't going into health states, isn't going into human states, isn't going into hungry ghosts, isn't going into animal, isn't going into heaven, isn't going into fighting demon. So it's neutral plus not even leaning in one of these resultant states. But it's a resulting state in the sense that it comes between states. And particles have to be treated with destiny. And you change destinies a very large number of times in a day. So you can have lots of viral experiences in a day.

[04:52]

On the other hand, it could happen that given your own particular atomic pattern, you could have it. you know, tightly packed. If you don't change your destiny, you don't have to have these intermediate states between them. You can have the same destiny repeating itself several times over several moments. There's not a part of state between every destiny. You can have cows for a long time. And each cow will be different. Basically, the states will have cow quality. The mind will change every moment, but you can have several moments of hell in a row without a bardo. You have a bardo when you switch to another destiny. Well, because you could have all six in kamadatu. You could have all six destiny from the kamadatu.

[05:54]

But in the rupadatu, the rupadatu in the sense of destiny, the neutral states. So looking in neutral, in the undefiled, undefiled neutral column, okay, on the back, you can have all six, all six vectors. On the reproductive, you only have one vector named the data. And all reproductive also only has one vector, In the Rupa Doctor, we have six subsets, six kind of pedaling. In the Pama Doctor, it's a pedaling pedaling. The Rupa Doctor was 17 kind of pedaling. The Rupa Doctor was 17 kind of pedaling.

[06:59]

Now the doctor is four. Well, for example, let's say you're in contact, and you have a moment of health in contact. That's why it is in contact. You have another moment of contact in contact. In other words, your comment, they'd be projecting health state, health state, As soon as you search for help, it happens. Then you come adopt your help, you will come back to the alternate case to change wrongs. Either changing destinies within a realm, or changing realms, even if it's in just a way.

[08:02]

So our experience is, for example, it can be a moment of karma, a moment of good karma, then another moment of good karma, then another moment of good karma. This is just one particular sequence of the fact. Then a moment of neutral karma. A neutral karma can be a vital, neutral, or a vital. Now, if it's not a vital, it could be a destiny, or a destiny. And that could be followed by another destiny. And one destiny, same kind of destiny, same kind of destiny, same kind of destiny. And then there could be intermediate state, falsehood, it's also mutual. And you need to know a destiny. And then the next reason, same kind of destiny. And then intermediate state and different. And then you could have a common state, a destiny. Or you could have a common state, a destiny. A common state, intermediate state, a destiny. A common state, a common state. Destiny means that you're just experiencing it.

[09:26]

And the thrust of your emotional experience is mutual. For example, as I say, you know, if you get me on the head with a baseball bat, I was coming at the neighborhood of that striping in my head to observe me just going. And I'm probably saying, God, what's happening? Or, gee, that hurts. Or just slip at the stars. I'm still functioning. I'm still the result of comments, putting them in comments around that moment, perhaps. But the direction of my thinking and, you know, it's just not that clear. You can't really say, take the worst person in the world and the best person, well, they might have a baseball bat. And by worst, I mean, comment for the worst, you might have a boss. If the person was very lofty comment, very low comment, they might have a baseball bat.

[10:30]

That state is what's called destiny. The pain of destiny. But at that moment, neither of the thinking of that day would have to soon started. But then as soon as destiny, the pain left up, the one would say, what was I thinking about? Oh, yes. And the other would say, boy, who did that to me? In the Destiny side, it's talking about just experiences. It doesn't have to be a baseball bat. But that kind of experience, when you're just having the equivalent of being hit with a baseball bat, you need that because you can see experiences like that. There's no question about what you're doing. You're not doing anything. It's just people experience. But they can also be light with that. That kind of thing.

[11:33]

I'm not getting a choir with the wastewater. That's bad karma. Tell me to get you with the wastewater. And you feel they put it mildly knowledge. Why am I getting that wastewater? This is sort of uncomfortable. That kind of, when you get into the experience of the wastewater, that's actually really grisly. And when it's a feather, it's a perfect place on the cheek. But you can't even tell the feather. It's a smooth feeling. That's more like the data. But talking about when we used to experience it, rather than you say, hey, who took my feather? Or give me that feather back. Do that again. Those are countries that follow destiny for preceded destinies. And there's an infinite number of patterns, you know.

[12:34]

That's all you realize, don't do it. Not a number of patterns, you know. Yes? Yeah, right, in the Commodore 2, one destiny has six subsets. Right. Well, there's six, there's six destinies in the Commodore 2, OK? The one of them, called Heaven, has six subsets. OK? A pair has eight subsets. Planet Earth doesn't have subsets. Humans don't have subsets. And on the common doctor. In the world of doctors, they're just heavens. And those heavens in the world of doctors have 18 subsets. And our world of doctors are just heavens. And they have four subsets. This is undefiled neutral category in talking about. I think heaven is a type of experience.

[13:34]

It's a type of experience where there's no role. You know, there's something. But it's not at this point. Probably a little harder than this happened to me. There's none of that in heaven. It's more like, I think it's nice. But to say this is nice because, you know, I'm willing to I said it in such a way you'd think I made a comment back. Well, you're right, because I just said that. But before you say something, just a feeling. This is nice. Before you get into talking about it, just that experience, that's what I mean by having them. And there's a different variety. And these, these are nicer than having them. The pleasant things you have with taxi cabs and trees that we want are nice. Aren't as lack of poor people and pleasant as me, they say. It needs to be the result of a stronger form of concentrated and selfish behavior.

[14:44]

But there's suffering in all those here. There's suffering in the plural of char. There's no present charlotte reason, suffering. It's always suffering. But there's different varieties of it. Karma explains, or karma is action. But suffering is, or pain is, I guess there's some differences. One is the total trust, as we say, the basic trust of a moment of experience.

[15:47]

And the other is sort of the way you feel about it, the way you take it, the way you experience it. And the way you experience it is only part of what you're doing. For example, ours have experience. But the destiny, they're talking about state of experience. where the experience is really predominant because, I'm mixing up words, where the experience, where the state of experience is characterized by experience is not predominant because there's no other major thrusts. You can't clearly pin other kinds of karma on the situation. So there's two kinds of, in a sense, Primer means not just one of the elements in a given moment of consciousness or a given moment of experience. Primer means the basic overall characteristic.

[16:49]

And in a state where there is no, where the overall characteristic is undetermined, but you can't say it, then I'm calling that just the experience of these various elements. So for example, karma's like, the karma of the situation is, I guess in a sense that's right, there is no difference, because the karma of the situation is like, if everybody up here just stood up and started walking around the room, but in one particular pattern, like when Pam started talking to Jim, And Nancy went over and played the piano, and Peter started writing on the blackboard, and Richard started shaking his heart shaker. And everybody did stuff of sort of that kind of continuity or that kind of coherence. That would just be the moment of experience, okay?

[17:54]

And it would have a sort of clarity. That's what destinies are like. its kind of quality would be sort of incoherent. But if everybody got up and rocked out the door, the kind of quality would be clearer. It's like everybody's going out the door. So that'd be an example of good or bad karma. And the other one would be an example of neutral karma. And then if everybody was doing things that were under fire, like on the board or helping other people out and talking about nice things and say there's undefiled neutral state. Okay? And among the undefiled neutral states, some are the results of karma. And some are not. And the ones that are the result of karma, some of them are destiny.

[19:01]

So it could be kind of like, so that's a bit of what destiny would be like. would be the result of karma, would be the result of projecting karma. It would be similar in clarity to that projecting karma. It would have a relationship to that projecting karma. But its karmic direction would be incoherent. Or its karmic clarity would be incoherent, but its experiential quality would be quite definite. So, for example, if you have not much karma of anger, That leads to an undefiled mental state where everybody in the room is walking around, not necessarily hitting each other, but just sort of automatically, by virtue of the nature of the room, experiencing pain, for example. In other words, instead of saying you people are very not hitting each other, we have the worldly habitants of hell, and the floor is very hot.

[20:03]

The floor is very, very hot, and it hurts our feet a lot. It's like that. And we don't drive the door, okay, because there's no doors. We do drive the door, but when you get the doors, you find that they don't open in the house. So the experience is that it just kind of, it can't be said people are doing this, so you say that they're sort of running around, but they're not really trying to get out. If they were trying to get out, they could say, I want to get out, and there was some sense of that. They would go on with the call. And if you looked at the other people who had Steve and Bernie, he said, gee, I'd like to, you know, give him some forgiveness tax or something, or lift him off the ground. That would be an example. Show some help. It would be a pony. Just a

[21:06]

on the situation. If you do personally, you're doing it every year. Now, if everybody in the room tried to help everybody else in the room in a state of hell, then that would be like, it would all be diamonds in a given moment. You know, all the diamonds would be coherently organized, and it's actually a good kind of... Is that it? What? Yeah. Yeah, it's karma, but it's decoherent karma. There's two words. One is that a moment of consciousness is also called a moment of experience. So any moment of experience or any moment of consciousness, in a sense, is common. But it's not coherent in this case. You can't tell what direction it's going. So, time is the pattern of the consciousness.

[22:19]

And that... Are you actually suffering time, not experiencing time? Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'd be happy to say that. but it is equal karma.

[23:21]

When you give a moment of experience or give a moment of consciousness, if you believe what's happening, If you think that these things are really there, then now we can show that that is suffering. And your belief that it's there, that action, that belief, that way of thinking, that is time. There's a difference between me, so the difference of the karma, the word, looking at the situation, or the way the situation is organized, is such that, that is such. The need to look that. You just don't understand.

[24:42]

You just don't understand. I need to be trying to organize the experience. And the trying to organize the experience is what the organizing is, and not suffering. I don't know. I just can't quite necessarily say that the people, just some discrimination. But it's more like . Right. There are some states that are

[25:51]

indeterminate economy. You can include all worldly states in a karmic chart. So none of them are outside of karmic categories. But I don't know, I just remember that fusion exists on this chart, too. And you look at this chart somewhat differently, without destroying the events here. There's no panel, and there's no software. Yes? . [...] You can get into a good state of mind.

[27:02]

There's two possibilities, okay? You have a good state in a bad state. And something's in between according to the average diameter. There must be something in between because it can't grow from a good to a bad. A good can't produce a bad. It also can't grow from a bad to a good. There must be a neutral still in between, okay? Now, should the neutral still in between be undefiled neutral? Yeah, should it be undefiled neutral or should it be defiled neutral? What I mean, if you have undefiled neutral, then you say, well, how do you get an undefiled neutral to the back? If you have a defiled neutral, you can see how you get from good to bad, and you have a good one and a bad one, you put a neutral one in there. I can see how you go from a good to a neutral, or from a neutral to a bad. That makes it easier to see.

[28:10]

You can't go from a good to a bad, but you can see I can go from a good to a neutral, or from a bad to a neutral, or from a neutral to a good, or from a neutral to a bad. My question is you're putting in defilement anymore now. If you don't put the feminine, then it's good and easy to see how you go from a good to a non-defile, but then how do you go from a non-defile to a bad? Now, if you do put a non-defile, then you say, well, how do I go from a good to a defile, but it's easy to see how you go from a defile to the bad. And then if you have a two good with a neutral in between, it's easy to see how you have a defile. when you go from a good to a bad thing, what are you going to put up to a bottom and a bottom? And I think the best way to do it is to say that maybe there's a difference. Different circumstances, you'd have different ones in between. You can also go from an undefiled neutral, or in a minute, you could definitely go from an undefiled neutral to a defiled something.

[29:19]

Because birth is defiled. So in the intermediate state, which is undefiled, neutral, you can grow from there into a defiled state, a birth state. The manner of birth consciousness is to be defiled. Right. So now, if you can grow from, so that's one way you can do it. You can say, well, If I can't go from a good to a defiled to a bad, then go from a good to a defiled to a defiled to a bad. What was your original question? The original question must be preceded by a neutral, by a bad.

[30:22]

and you only go from bad to defiled neutral, you said. Well, you certainly know you can go from good to undefiled neutral to defiled neutral to bad. I get the... Now I want to start some results. But anyway, now you can still ask the question. Would you define some 25-year-old insight? Did you say to go from undefiled neutral to undefiled neutral, you need an undefiled state?

[31:40]

Not in between. This is chapter three, anyway. You're in an intermediate state, and nothing much is happening. It's neutral, plus not even does it have some nice characteristic, like be fearful, or perish, or nauseating, or higher-oriented, or blissful, or lack of woe. Doesn't have any of these characteristics. And then, what do you do? Somehow, you start to accelerate. You start throwing things together into some kind of vortex. And when it gets strong enough, you can desire to be balanced if you want. And you have various options.

[32:48]

And that choice of being developed, in order to make that choice, you have to not only build up a preference somehow, by you, I mean, the conscious now has to develop some kind of image, which developing the image is the preference, okay? It's not like you, it's not like you, I mean, There's some preference aside from making the image of the thing. Just make the image, and by making the thing, that's your preference. I've heard earlier, if I take some clay and make it into a barrel, you don't necessarily say you prefer a barrel. In terms of taking mental powers and mental functions and putting them in a certain shape, by putting them in that shape, that's what we mean by your preference and your inclination, is that shape you made. Then, once you make that shape, The one you make, the one you image, is the one you're imaging.

[33:51]

That's your preference, that's the one you choose to think about right now, but you're not burned into it yet. And you could just make that one and then put it aside and make another one, which is the same as saying, you look at the human world, or you look at the hairy world, or you look at the day of the world. In other words, turning an image, looking at a realm and having a preference, are the same thing. What you look at is what you prefer. What you have an image of is what you prefer, and what you... That's that. Then, if you just let it go at that, then you just sort of had an image. There you are in an uncommated state, and you just thought, oh, there's human realm. Oh, there's power. But, at another point, you decide to be burned there. You say, I run it. I'm going to try that thing on. Then you get burned into that state.

[34:54]

But getting burned into the state is different from doing the karma of that type. but you just simply anger. Right? It doesn't in this example, this example is no anger. But we're talking about mutual karma, that intermediate being leading to a birth, and another intermediate being called, for example, hell. The fact that you choose hell when you're in the immediate being is because you have anger before you. You commit a counter-act called anger, which leads towards pain. And you may find yourself in the intermediate existence.

[36:02]

In the intermediate existence you'll be in no many trouble except the fact that you know how to do something. You have a skill of being angry. As in the intimate existence which may last for a short time, a long time, you have, you make various images. You prefer this image, you prefer that image, you make, and you put them aside. But when you hit the wrong part, have wrong. Now you prefer it, but you might say, I want to be burned there, right? Because you're familiar with those people. I mean, you're familiar with those images. and you desire to be born there. You feel fear, you're angered, and you get born in hell. So, at least you just played, why?

[37:13]

Yeah, but it's, it's, it's, it's not like it arrives, this basic force to ride through if you get shaped. With this basic, we had an illusion coming through, and it's there in the undefined, neutral, intermediate space. And whichever one was strong back here, if you just were angry with pure, that's very likely to be what you'll choose. And then you only defiled state called pure, and then defiled state's fired by destiny. So you go death, intermediate, and then in the intermediate, you choose a pure, which is a defiled state. So you go from an undefiled to a defiled to a, if you rush, another undefiled. But you can also go from undefiled to defile, and not going to another birth necessarily right away.

[38:20]

You can go into what we call open common field, which is where you can actually do something which is not destined. Because it's active, you know, determinable, like it's good or bad. clear what you're doing there. But I was, you know, we're kind of projecting ourselves up all over Chapter 3 with only text and unique. So it made me so good to spend too much time on here. Let's finish this off. This section, anything you know in this section before we do the deep prayer to samskaras? Yeah, it's a difficult part, isn't it? It'll actually ask here, doesn't it?

[39:29]

It says, what's the difference on page 67 or whatever page it is on page 33B? It says, what's the difference between mana and murder? But there's someone really in their last three of terms, those two, read the definitions, the two of them, before I read the stuff. Maybe we read the stuff first, it's going to take your time to find that. Somebody find it?

[40:34]

This is Mada. You know, the problem is the word arrogance appears now. Read the other one. Can you say it again louder? The calculation is due to what we want, we want the patient, we want to tell you what we want, we want to have to do that, try, we want the patient, [...] See the difference?

[41:44]

Well, heroic arrogance appears under both headings, but there's something that doesn't appear under both headings. What's it? What is it? Huh? Well, respect and intoxication, those two. So, my guess is that what we're talking about is one case kind of haughtiness, a kind of personal respect for your accomplishments, your feelings, your goodness, or whatever, anyway. Conceit. The other one is more like intoxication. And if you notice, that's the one that has the rightest pervasion that can exist right up to the top. And if you're up at the top, there's no body, even. At the top of the world, there's no body.

[42:48]

And then even later in the world, there's still a body or still some problem. You don't have a name anymore. But there still can be this mantra. So it's arrogant, but it's arrogance in a, it sounds to be an arrogance in a less specific form or not kind of, you know, arrogance in the sense of excitement or arrogance in the sense of enjoyment or attainment. The other one seems to be, seems to sound like it's a little bit more specifically related to a grosser phenomenon, doesn't it? Right. Yeah, I'm sorry about that part.

[43:53]

I have to say about appallage with itself. Well, my guess is that abolition of the mind, abolition of the mind means abolition of the mind because it sees itself accurately. In other words, it's some kind of instability, some kind of waving around the way things are. That's due to some kind of, you know, maybe some little bit of stepping back from what's happening and cashing in. In mana? In mana? I think you'd step back there, too.

[44:56]

But what you're looking at, I think, it sounds like it's a more gross phenomenon. Yeah, I think more comparative. But also that you sort of It's more of a comparative or conceptual rather than emotional. Mana seems to be more conceptual and comparative, whereas mana seems to be more like just an emotional instability, kind of wavering or excitement. You know, not the display of it, but maybe more like the thing with what you said in some ways is the enjoyment of it.

[46:18]

But the rung, you don't need it. The mana can drop away and you still have mata. And mata doesn't need a body. So it can be just enjoyment of mental phenomenon other than just the way they are. And though you imagine that there was some way, as I just said, maybe to cash in or take credit for it. Some way to be excited about it. It seems to be, in some sense, kind of hovering around it or something, just some kind of wumbling about it. It seems like not as much subtle. And I'm saying that probably because I'm told that it goes to the top of existence. Whereas mana can't do that. So I hear mana as being grosser, relating to things like people and straight A's and things like that.

[47:39]

That may be the case. Sometimes that happens in Abhidharma. It's that they really seem to be talking about different strengths of the same thing that never can coexist. That's Vitajan Dishara. They got into that. Some people said, they're not two dharmas. They're the same strength of a different thing. They don't coexist. And in fact, if you think about it, it's true that you don't have the... defined version of a meditation object at the same time that you have the discursive version of it. It's true though, if you first have one, you can drop that and you have another one, you drop that. But do they ever coexist? Some people feel they don't. Do these ever coexist though? Can you be sort of, can you discriminate between, at a gross level, can you discriminate between being haughty and proud, have a lot of respect and veneration for yourself or for something. And being excited or sort of having a good feeling about it.

[49:03]

Sort of being enraptured with yourself rather than... Some people you respect and some people you really just are enchanted by, maybe the difference. And in some way, enchantment maybe, people higher, needs less physical support than respect. Just trying to find, see if you can have an experience about what I'm talking about. Because in the end, it comes down to, do you experience this stuff? Listen, you know, if you, if you can experience it and make sure that you're not missing anything, then you can change the Abdomad chart. But you sort of have to come up with some actual experience of how it's not there, which is, how do you do that? You have to prove how it's really the same thing. Can you have an experience? Two versions of, two intensities of the same thing. Right.

[50:16]

Right. Right. Right. As he said, comparative, one more comparative. And at the lower levels, you're confusing, but at the higher levels, there's no other. Okay? In the Ayurveda, you can't compare with others. There's no other. There's no film to compare to. You don't have any other people. They're just these concepts. But there still, you could say, I'm doing pretty well. Here I am, folks, up here in the Arupadatu. I never thought I'd be here. And it's really great to be here, too, I want to tell you. That's Mata. And I plan sometime next year to go to Bavudga. I really, you know. I think I probably can do it, too. But there's no... This is a... You don't actually think like that up there until there's no worries.

[51:18]

There's no worries to say this kind of yourself. But you can feel that way somehow. You can have that kind of confidence or enjoyment of yourself, attainments, even though you can't talk about it or identify yourself. But you couldn't compare to others. There's no way to establish that. And some version of that happens at a later level where you could talk about yourself and you could talk about others. The thing that functions between people and the comparative type That drops away when others drop away. But something else goes on, and that's Mata. And apparently, even at a lower level, they feel that you can discriminate between the two. So those of you who are still at a lower level, if there's any here, see if you can see the difference. And I would like you to... This is enough, I think, on these. I suggest you start reading about the Viprayukta samskaras, which is Karaka 34 to 49. And the class that I was suggesting where we could review chapter one or talk about problems about chapter one, if Blake Roshy doesn't lecture this Thursday, we'll do it this Thursday.

[52:28]

And if he doesn't, if he does lecture this Thursday, we won't do it. But if he does lecture this Thursday, I think it's very unlikely to lecture next Thursday, because I think he'll be in New York. So if it doesn't happen this Thursday, we'll do it next Thursday evening at Raffaetic Pop. . [...] It's quite a bit of an anniversary. Right away.

[53:24]

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