And you're womb-born, you're apparitionally born. You're womb-born in, just before it gets you, you're womb-born in the human realm. Then you switch into hell realm. But you didn't go through a womb to get there. It changed bodies at that point. You understand? So this person, where I'm lying on the street, okay, I just fell down the street in front of a steamroller. I'm lying on the street, and I'm a human being. I hurt my head when I hit the sidewalk. I'm in pain. I see the steamroller coming and I start to get up because I don't want to get run over by it. This is human life. Oh no. This is really terrible. This is human situation. Now the steamroller starts to roll over my fingertips. At some point I go into a state of terror but I don't get reborn to a womb. When you get reborn to a womb, first you're in this one-cell thing, and then you go through this process of evolution, and you go right through a womb, and you come on, you go.

[01:14]

You don't do that. You don't have to do that to go into hell. You leave the human realm and go into hell realm. You leave the human form of experience, which you had to come to a womb to have. It's experience. It's not this human body per se. You have to have a human body, this kind of human body, in order to have human experience. We're talking about being, okay? Not physical places. And the human being, it turns out, has a human body. All different kinds of human bodies, but human bodies. So, you can, with the same body... All of a sudden you switch bodies. But you do it apparitionally so you can do it in a moment. And you instantly inherit the body to be a hell being. And the one moment or something before you completely can't stand that life and you give right to death from hell.

[02:17]

Okay? You can also die from hell. So, at some point anywhere you die from human life and you enter... intermediate realm and you go into hell. But you don't have to become womb-born to make the current transition. The body, by the way, would die in that situation, of course, prior to going into hell. The human situation would die. It's something that you're saying that there's no kind of suffering to be on your mind. You know what? You can switch. You can switch. It's hard to do. [...]

[03:20]

It's hard to do. It's hard to do. You just leave your body with that foot, just leave your body. Whereas when you're talking about it, you're talking about terror. But I want to tell us that you're going to say the same thing, and that regardless of the way it's dangerous, you don't take part. But bearing is called terror. horrible. But you can't stand it. You have to shed the human situation in order to cope with it. You have to take on a kind of a heavier duty experiencing realm in order to take it. The human realm doesn't have such wide capacity. That's one of its advantages.

[04:22]

And So you take it, it's a simpler realm. But we have access to these other realms which are more violent and more blissful. But when you go into heaven, the same thing happens. You get a new body. You get the body better suited for bliss. You don't have a lot of the trouble. You don't have, I don't know what. You don't have to shave. You don't have to clean your fingernails. You don't have to take bath. You don't get sores. You don't get stiff. You get another body. A body is better suited for pleasure. The human body just kind of gets in the way for a certain bliss state.

[05:25]

That's what they say. The transition state, because actually you could go someplace else, too. You could go someplace else, too. But human beings, when about to be crushed like that, they often choose hell. Because they can't believe that this is going to be blissful. they're already in a trance they could, though. So, for example, if you're ready to project yourself into a certain kind of a trance and somebody comes up and starts mutilating your body, you can still project yourself into the bliss state because of your past crime also. But if you're walking around in human realm, kamadatu, untrance-like, and you run into some physical unfortunate situation like that, some painful situation like that,

[06:26]

If you get to be too much and you wish to get out of it, then you get out of the human birth. But it's very likely that you'll choose hell birth right after that. Which is handy because you'll be able to cope with terror because that's exactly what you want to do. You hate this experience that's coming. So you hate so much you even give up your human form, human experience. And you're likely to choose now. Now you can experience it again, but now you have better equipment to experience it. So you'll be in hell, yes? What? Okay. You might go in hell. Ten. Depends on your karma. If you're angry and you're having an angry dream, or if you're just generally an angry person, if you're really good at anger professionally, angerists or whatever, then you die peacefully.

[07:29]

You're not angry when you die, I mean it, but you die peacefully. Go into the intermediate realm. And you sit there for a while. And on. Because even when you leave a situation of great pain in the human realm, let's say you are in the human realm, the human realm means you're having human-type experiences, maximum pain within that realm. Okay, still not like hell, but pretty painful, pretty just uncomfortable. Then you go into intermediate realm, but everybody's intermediate realm in the beginning is pretty uncommitted. Nothing much is happening. But then people get agitated and want to do something. And if you're into anger, then if you get into anger again in intermediate realm, that means you're interested in anger. You'll project yourself into hell. Now, It's also possible to die. Sometimes we see people dying. We see human beings dying sometimes of certain diseases.

[08:32]

As we watch them dying, they're actually in hell already. They've given up human type of experience while they're still in a human body. And they're in hell as they die. And then they go into intermediate realm. Yes? while still having a human body, yes. Well, first of all, let's say they're in human consciousness, human type of experience. They have enough of that, then they go into the intermediate realm while still having a human body. They go into hell, still having a human body. And then that wears itself out. And then you go into the intermediate realm, and then... that point also the human body is dropped. You've lost interest in human existence before that, but the body wears out.

[09:33]

The body, the incarnation can, goes on beyond after, even now, some of the, sometimes true, true, hell incarnation, while still, while still basically having the body that comes with a choice and incarnation time. In this particular, so there's incarnation within incarnation. But you choose the capacity to experience hell while still being Jim Phelan. But the Jim Phelan projection lasts a certain amount of time. Within that, he may go to various realms. And it may be that the realm of experience you're in just at the end of your body's lifespan may be hell. It may be human. And that's why it doesn't necessarily help to drug people. Because, I mean, it If they're not in human realm, if they're in great suffering, if they're in hell, drugging them doesn't help. You might as well leave them alone and let them be in hell.

[10:35]

Because being in hell itself is not so troublesome. You're just being tormented. It's undefiled, right? It's undefiled neutral. It's torment, but you're not causing any trouble. So when you come out of hell and then go into... Intermediate realm. In some ways, the recent past has been fairly good. You haven't been... You haven't been being angry. So coming out of hell into intermediate realm is not so likely that you go back into hell as if you've been, for example, in human realm, being angry about it. Human realm and then trying to get out of it, which is not human realm. It's karma realm, karma brother, in response to pain in the human realm. Jennifer? I don't know about that constant.

[11:36]

Try to find it out. I was going to try to find it out and I forgot. Yes? I doubt it. Yes? We talked about why we've done it. We've [...] done it. Well, thinking doesn't exist, really. All right. But this is the way we think. We're studying illusion. We're studying the transformations of illusion.

[12:38]

We're studying the process of illusion. How it unfolds itself moment by moment. Discontinuously erupts and disappears and erupts and disappears. And we're studying the And plus within illusion, we're studying how illusion thinks of itself as continuing and so on. So people say, you know, if everything's momentary, then how does, you know, how do you, how do you accumulate anything? How do you build up good merit or something like that? And that question comes from karmic consciousness. And the answer to the question is, well, how do you think you build it up? How do you think things are passed from moment to moment? That's how they get passed from moment to moment. How do you think things improve? What do you think the machinery of the world is? That's how you do it.

[13:39]

And then someone will say, well, but I don't know how good things happen. Well, if you don't know, if you really think you don't know, then someone will just tell you how you think you know. If you don't have an alternative, then try this one. If you have an alternative, then fine, but you said you didn't, so here's one. So Buddhism will tell you how karma works and how merit accumulates and how you get better and how you get worse. It will tell you that. If you have an alternative, please give it to you. We'll put it in. Anyway, anybody thinks it happens is the way it happens. But it turns out this system actually does include almost all the ways. All the time I've been studying, people haven't brought up too many additional ways. And most of the ways they brought up are just ways that are already here, but we just haven't talked about it. Basically, they've been discussing this for a few thousand years, and they got most of the ways people think it happened down. And they've seen that most of the different ways are really just different varieties of the basic teachings that they're giving you about the way we think.

[14:50]

People died and they came back. They died next, you know. In the story, I think we didn't came back. A lot of times, what looked like a lot of suffering, people were standing, like, watching their body go to the head, and shoot up, operating on whatever. What they experienced by the people themselves, that way at all. It was a much more comfortable condition for them as they decided to move them back. So that's the point, you see, that you're bringing up, too, is that hell is not a place. So we bring people in here, okay? We start slicing them up. Take a picture of it. It's obviously hell. People in red outfit, fire, people putting in fire, being hung upside down by their toenails. This is hell. But what's the experience of the people that are there?

[15:51]

Are they in hell? Maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe the ones who are burning them are the ones there in hell. Hell is a way of being. It's not a place. You can't tell it by what's happening to a person. So in fact, I think we all, maybe a number of us, have had that experience of being stabbed or something. And it doesn't hurt like you think it would. Like I've heard people that have been stabbed, they say it's hot. It's just really hot. And not burning hot, like getting burned by hot water. But it's like a hot thing going in. And then it turns out that you had this particular hot thing, that all the blood source was going all over the place inside you, and you have all this disturbance, you know, so it's hard to keep maintaining your daily life because of this stab. But the actual stab, especially something sharp, you don't even feel it sometimes. But it seems the idea would be Jesus doesn't give him a prayer.

[16:52]

But sometimes stabs really hurt. Sometimes they may be really just terrible. But sometimes someone can just touch you like this and it can be horrible. But hell is a way of being. It's not determined externally. You mean it's possible to choose effectively? No. And you're not into choices either. You're into experience. When you're in a gutty, you're not into choosing to go someplace else.

[17:56]

You're into this. You're not into, I wish I wasn't here. You're into, I am here. I am in hell. I am in great torment. This is the worst possible situation. Something like that. Not even the worst possible situation. Just you're into. Not in a moment spare about, I wish I wasn't going, you're just screaming. That's hell. Or in heaven you're just going, you're going to say, I wish this would go on. When you do that, you're not in heaven anymore, you're not in hell anymore. That's not what they're like. You have to change realms because you have to go into this intermediate thing. You can You can be in heaven or be in hell. And then later you can wish that you weren't in heaven or wish that you were in hell or whatever, okay? But that's, strictly speaking, not the gutty. That's not... What?

[18:57]

No. No, it's like this. Let's say that you were in a human lifespan, okay? In the human lifespan of 70 years, you go into the other various realms. So let's say now you find yourself... In hell, okay? You find yourself experiencing hell. It's a hellish experience of heaven. When you're in that, you're just sort of crucified or something. You're just having great torment. Torment beyond the scope of human existence. You're still a human being now. Right? Here, within human existence, you have a human experience. Human experience has certain qualities. Okay? Which are because it's being mildly nauseating. It includes, uh, I will certainly try hiding about quite a bit of variety, but basically it's, it's a little bit boring and nauseating.

[19:58]

Hell is too great torment, okay? It's all within the human life. Also within the human life, you can experience bliss. It's a wide variety of bliss. There's blissfulness in this world. I just stand here in the room and feel really good. But there's still tables and chairs and stuff like this. But you feel just really, really fun. More than just positive feeling. Extremely positive feeling. And then now that you have blisses, which are even greater, which you have to go and keep only company through medication and compulsion. Dr. Hep, the young Dr. Hep. He's a blissful state, still within the human body, he's still in the same body, okay? When you go into these things, you are born into these realms, and before you turn into these realms, you go into an intermediate existence. You're in a hell realm, a hell form of experience, and you come out of that hell experience.

[21:04]

Well, you don't necessarily go immediately into one possibility, go from hell to the intermediate, and then going to human, and going to the intermediate, and then going to hell, whatever. But here's first among all these other experiences, a moment when you're not infected, when you're not involved in dealing with the gucci. There's spaces in here which are karma, Baba. So you come to an end of a gucci, a gucci fulfilled until hell comes, step up. A period of human experience. A period where you're basically having a human type of experience. You're into experience. You're an undefiled neutral karma. You're just experiencing. It comes to an end, and then you go into an active karma phase. You're not in a gutty. Okay? You're not experiencing stuff so much.

[22:08]

You have feelings, but you're mostly into doing stuff. You say, I wish I wasn't in hell. I hope I never go to hell again. I wish I was in hell. I'm going to do whatever I can to get to hell. As a result of this kind of activity, you can project yourself into a destiny. They do not do it. Because in this time, Charlie can be doing it. And I'm stuck with that one's to work with. Yeah, I'll value it in that. Being in a stupid, blind, caring, dream, order better to do it.

[23:12]

Do you understand this question? What's the difference between radio Kama Baba and the immediate realm? In the immediate realm, you are, basically I would say that you're, you can spend, somehow, it characterized, its placement seems to be at the, it may be within Kama Baba, okay? But it's the, it's a special section of Kama Baba. A very kind of, it speaks to the very, An uncommitted part of . It's talking about when you're, when you really kind of, you're not, you're not just experienced, and yet you're, you're just not on a trip show. You just, you can almost, . It's almost as though you're not doing it.

[24:13]

And okay. So it's very much like time above it, though, because in time above it, what you want, what you, the way you take it, is going to project retribution. Or not project retribution, but it could also be taking away, it's not going to project retribution in intermediate realm, too. But intermediate realm seems to be Oh, look, the difference between intermediate round and karma bubba is the intermediate round is undefiled neutral. So it's like karma bubba, though, in that sense, in that it has projected powers like karma bubba does, but it's a special type of karma bubba, which is undefiled neutral.

[25:15]

And then the next question might be, is there any kind of karma bubba Well, I don't want to say that exactly, but I'm saying, I'm trying to think of what's the difference between intermediate picture. Okay. And the one difference in that intermediate existence is that there's some kind of intermediate existence. So we know that intermediate existence does not completely account for a very atomic light. So, but it has a lot of, is it 10 o'clock? Yep. So I

[26:17]

It doesn't, whether there could be any intermediate existence outside Kama Baba or not, that we have to maybe think about some more. But if it is included within Kama Baba, it doesn't completely fill Kama Baba. You know, I think that it seems like what might be good to do actually is another type of blockage to start Not blockage, but it seems like you want to talk about the realm. Maybe it's okay just to keep trying to read intermediate realm existence and then talk about the realm. The Gatti. But maybe it's better just to study the Gatti for a little while. But I don't know. Which way do you want to do it? Do you want to study the Gatti separately? Or do you want to keep running into them as you study this material? Yeah. So maybe just this way it's okay.

[27:41]

Okay.

[27:42]

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