So how do these places function at that time? That's to think about. Okay, so... Then the next one, which is always present, is what in the Theravada? In the Abhidham at the Sanghaha. What is the fourth one that they tell you is always present in an Alphysim state? In Dhaka. Restlessness. Now here's one that's, where is it on the list, by the way?

[01:13]

You see on the list? It's in the whatever. It's in the whatever. That's a good place for it. anything about this this word You don't penetrate the intrinsic awareness of the Dharma.

[02:34]

You're intending to everything. The definition of Panya is to penetrate into the only visible Baba. And you can't penetrate. This is restlessness. Somehow, we talked about restlessness last week as being a family. Do you? Mm-hmm. I'm just trying to remember. So this is another difference between the Dhamma Sangani and this later book. It says here that... Number two, excitement.

[03:40]

Well, let's look. We won't find it if you're looking at Atasalini, because Atasalini doesn't have any power in it. It might be, it might be excitement. Yeah. Look at that one. So this is a characteristic of this, right here. Right there, excitement. So this list has a list of mental factors that are present, and they say whatever. Sometimes they tell you what the whatever is. And in later texts, sometimes they include the whatever in the description. Why do they do that? Why? Like, this, at the time of the Abhidamata Sangaha, Manasikara, or Manasikara, and Adi Moka, things like that, particularly Manasikara is considered to be always present in all states.

[04:56]

But in the Dhammasangani, they don't even list it on the list. It's included in the whatever, just those extra things that can be present sometimes. Why do they have an extra list that they don't include on their main list? But they already had the things on the list. They already had them available to them. Why would they wait until later to put them on the list?

[05:59]

See what I mean? I can see they keep making up new dharmas to take care of new problems. They had them already, so why would they just sort of have them over on the side there? Why would they put them on their list? They had nothing to lose. I think it was the other dhammas that said that there was one aspect of why they put chitta in this, the dhammas and karmus. There's just one aspect present called chitta. There's just something that occurs to me while I'm looking at that list of the right views, the right intention, the right speech chapter and so forth. The ones which are originally on the list, views, intention, endeavor, mindfulness, and concentration, who sort of be seen as internal, or speech, action, and what becomes externalized.

[07:19]

And so, it seems it may be that they're not on the list until they run faster, Or they already knew all that they needed to know, but they weren't relevant yet. They already knew about these functions of mind, but they weren't important in India at the time. Because people weren't asking questions about them. Or people didn't act that way, or people didn't think that way, so they didn't need him, but they knew about him. So many things... Do you have a question about why it's left out?

[08:22]

Why memory was left out? So what... I guess we could talk about it. It's sort of a major discussion. I think we can talk about it. When we talk about perception, we'll talk about that question. So bring that up there, okay? Because that fits right in there. Hmm. If that's present in all unknown states, we also have quiet and balance and things like that in those unknown states.

[09:24]

And it doesn't seem to go in the same way. It seems quite comfortable to quiet. And concentration also. And concentration, yeah. It says here, Vipassana has been erroneously included in the text. Moral insight was as incompatible with immoral thoughts to the Buddhists as it was to Socrates and Plato. Hence also wisdom and mindfulness are excluded as well as faith. The commentary rules out that the followers of heretical dogmas and mere opinion can have but a spurious faith in their teachers, can only be mindful of bad thoughts, and can only cultivate deceit and delusion.

[10:30]

Nor can there possibly be that six-fold deficiency of sense and thought, which is concomitant with good thoughts. What does the Atasamini say about the fact that concentration, which seems to be a virtue in a wholesome state, something you're trying to cultivate, what does it say about that being present in an unwholesome state? But what else does it say? No, it says you must have concentration in order to do bad things. It doesn't say you can do it better. It says a thief has to have it. It says a thief to be successful. Right. A knife doesn't miss. Right. But what else does it say about concentration? Has Van been here and went out for a minute?

[11:41]

Okay. The reason why I think I missed you is because Catherine's been hiding behind you all the while, you know, sticking her head out a little bit. Yes, I couldn't see you, you know, because I was trying to see her from behind you all this time. So, what does it say about concentration in an awesome state?

[12:43]

John could describe it. Concentration in an awesome state doesn't It doesn't scatter the various mental states. It doesn't scatter them. It doesn't scatter them. That's good. I was thinking about scattering, you know, scattering water on the ground. You sprinkle water on the ground and the sun comes and it dries it out. If you sprinkle it and you pound it down, then it'll stay wet, even when the sun comes down there. Do you remember that one? That's the image of concentration in a wholesome state. It'll last for, it does wet the ground, but it doesn't last. The concentration in a wholesome state, you can pound the ground down, and even the sun comes, it doesn't dry out right away.

[13:46]

You polish it because it's wet deep through. So concentration is present in both kinds of states, but it's not the same. It doesn't work the same in a person or most of the states. It's the same with calm, you know, samatha. It's present in both states, but it doesn't mean the same thing. And here it says anyway that it's a mistake to have grasp or vipassana in the list. So, can we cross it out? I don't know. Anyway, it's a question mark. Okay, we already talked about lobha. Oh, it says, here it says that sometimes this restlessness is associated with the puffed-up state of mind. Accordingly, conceit. correspondingly to, corresponding to conceit.

[14:49]

Here it is not used in that sense. So in that sense, sometimes restlessness is, is that last flood, or the second to last flood. ... [...] It's under Mohan.

[15:59]

It has the kicked up state. So what's your point? Anything? Well, I'm not quite sure where this is. Later, this goes along with the Abhidamata Sangha, this chart. But they speak of these, like in the 12th morning, the Dhammasangani, the 12th state, they're talking about it with Utica. They have in here... Oh, you look in the Dhammasangani? Yeah, in the Dhammasangani, under the 12th state of the Vedic consciousness, it should be in there. It is? In the definition, but not in the Dhammasangani. It is in the Dhammasangani. Yeah, distraction and distraction.

[17:01]

So these are just grief type ones. In this first one, hate is not there either. In the first eight, there's no hate. But there is pollution, but they only have pollution with all this. But there's no hate in the first eight. But here in the, other than what the moha says, these four, moha, ahirataka, [...] but here it's in the twelfth kind that they've listed excitement that's what they call it here.

[18:03]

Is it the Dhammasan Ghani? In the Dhammasan Ghani it has Udaka as excitement but it may be just that for some reason or other That's why I was asking this question before. It says here, or whatever in the first one. Are you following that? In the first one it says, or whatever, it has a dharma list and it says, or whatever, and down the footnote it says, or whatever, and that could be like excitement, buddhaka. In the last one it says, the twelfth one it says, associated with excitement in the description, as it says in the description in the Abhidhamat Sangaha, But then the Dharma list, it also has excitement. It may be just that. That means why they brought it up. Why would they have it in the whatever list and not show it? I don't know exactly. The way their minds work is not exactly systematic.

[19:11]

But in some sense it seems to be somewhat systematic, but maybe it's just prompted by the fact that it's in the description. Somebody might think about that. Anyway, let's go through this list and see if there's anything more here. Unconscientiousness, lust, blah, blah. Okay, and now we... Anybody else have anything they want to talk about in this list? Any other dharmas they want to cover right now? Anyway, you go down the list and then it says, next is dullness and lust, lust and dullness and covetousness. And you come to this thing called the summary.

[20:16]

And what's the purpose of the summary, do you think? I'm just going to pop the other desk over there. wrong mindfulness. Wrong mindfulness. In the commentary, it says that there's no such thing, this wrong mindfulness, but they add that, it's the numerical characteristics of the path. Thunder. Thunder. They say that there's some sort of thing that's wrong mindfulness, any mindfulness is that you actually say, I don't have mindfulness.

[21:34]

Wrong mindfulness is that you don't have any, you don't have any mindfulness. Well, what is mindfulness like? Literally, mindfulness means memory, right? So what does it mean? What is mindfulness? What is characteristic of mindfulness? See what I mean by mindfulness, You're not necessarily aware of what you're doing.

[22:43]

It sounds consequential. It's not... It's just... It almost can be... You can be totally oblivious after what you're doing and still have that concentration. And you can be in a trance indeed. You can be mindful or not mindful in a test of breath. But I guess you can't really be mindful. Always mindful in the list. but that's right i think that's that we're meant to one point is exclusive awareness

[23:45]

I.e., [...] So there's some slight difference, you can go a little bit further then, couldn't, because couldn't you be concentrated on those factors too? What's the difference between mindfulness, then? Isn't there a presence?

[24:50]

A presence of... He's having some... Some basic... Basic meaning? Meaning. Uh-huh. In your own existence. Uh-huh. Especially if you don't cross it. If you don't cross it? Cross it. Uh-huh. maybe the difference between unwholesome and wholesome. Just the whole idea of whore, you know? Or the whole idea of not. That type of concentration, you do an unwholesome act. It's not coming from dead center. It's not non-wavering. It's off being there. Off name or partial, not whole. And that's why when someone is completely present in these states, they can break apart someone else's concentration.

[25:58]

You can break apart someone's concentration? You can deter your act, or you can maybe compete in time. Are we getting at the meaning of mindfulness by that? I can see how these two would function together that way, but mindfulness, we still haven't got at mindfulness, I don't think, completely. I think Mark and John pointed out limitations of a mental unpointedness in this situation. So what can mindfulness do that mental unpointedness can't? Does mindfulness have some right views with it? Right views or some of the other things, right? Mindfulness by itself, what is mindfulness be able to, what does it do? Well, it's something kind of, it says that mindfulness is the only way that you can become mindful.

[26:58]

And Lama Govinda, I can't really have a concluded thing. Lama Govinda opposes Satya Maha. Maha is present in Satya. I can't really conclude. Is there any comprehension? Comprehension? So, it recalls, it brings back to mind. Is it like, is it the image that it keeps things from floating to the surface? Keeps things from floating to the surface and floating away? That imagery? What I see is the mindfulness itself allows you to become aware because it's always prevalent.

[28:08]

It's the presence of the image. where our wholesome activity comes from. It's always within our recall. To be mindful is to act within it. To bring that back. To bring that back. And to be within somebody's presence who is mindful of that, when you're in our wholesome activity, recalls that within yourself. So there's always some awareness of that presence. If someone else brings it back, though, what good is that to you if they walk away? Maybe a mindfulness does that for people and then gives them a chance to take a fresh breath of their buddhi-neshi.

[29:09]

But that's your mindfulness, I guess. It doesn't do them any good, I don't think. I don't know that I was confused trying to get it through. It's not floating on the surface like pumpkins and pots in the water. Not doing that. So it... So mindfulness... Well, it enters into and plunges down to the object and it keeps you coming back to it. And instead of keeping you coming back to like the point, keeping on the point, it particularly catches, it has a tendency to catch stuff as it floats away and brings you back. So it has the ability to be, mental unpointedness seems to be, brings things in.

[30:15]

Whereas mindfulness seems to have more the ability to bring things back, catch things that are thrown away. There's no difference like that. If you add time to that, it means like letting go, too. Where I guess you'd have to let go to be mindful. You'd have to catch it to sort of let it pass through you. But you would get stuck with the concentrations. Where is letting go from anything? Well, to be mindful means that the aspect of time, to be mindful means that you're always aware of what you're doing. So when you recall something, to feel the next instant, you have to let go of the essence. Whereas it seems in concentration you could get stuck.

[31:23]

It's not moving, the concentration. Maybe it's the motion leading to the body. It's like the Pratanna people say that mindfulness is me of honor. I don't see a presentation. Well, you retain the water. It seems like there's nothing... Or that there's greed involved in concentration. There's focus. Concentrate. You mean at what point it is? Yeah, at one point you could just list down with something in concentration. Whatever it is, it changes. I mean like if you went poorly to a certain situation, that situation is going to change over time.

[32:33]

Maybe at one point in this has a quality of excluding things in the sense that it was focused and had a focus that excludes many, many possible abilities. But mindfulness is actually uninclusive. And the quality of bringing things back means awareness of presence. So 360 degrees or whatever is around can all be brought back or be viewed in the sense of being a physical.

[33:33]

So the one point is that it could be oblivion. I mean, there's unawareness of possibilities. Mindfulness actually would include The mental unpointedness also has to do with one-pointedness of the other factors, too. So once you bring it back from whatever realm you have it, it then can be operated upon by mental unpointedness. Then mental unpointedness can be used on whatever it is, whatever the realm that you're watching. and you can collect the energies of various mental functions on the object. And actually, I think we would study this later too, but then there's two other factors that are important. One is, three others that are important. One is Chanda, the other one is Adimoka, and the other one is Manaskara. So they also fill in the idea that

[34:37]

Chanda keeps you interested in the object, keeps you working towards it. Manaskara turns, makes the initial turn towards it. And Adimoka is the, what's Adimoka? Determination. It's an ultimate facing of the object, keeping on and selecting that object and staying with that object, making the ability to stick, you know, that object and stay with that object as being one. So these are several aspects that work together and most clearly it all can be All except for mindfulness can be assumed to have the ability to work for either a neutral or a positive or a negative end.

[35:37]

But anyway, anything good needs chanda, needs mindfulness, needs manasaka, needs arimokka, needs mental mindfulness. In order to perform any good act or progress towards a path, you need all of those functions. So I'd like to quickly run over this summary here. When we looked at the first state of consciousness, we didn't go over the summary. There's a summary section and an emptiness section at the end. And we didn't do it. So you might at this point look back at the first moment of consciousness on page, I believe, 3rd, 27, is it? 26 and the other summary there. Okay. And then, so then you can turn to, back to 103. So you have the summary.

[36:43]

And so what do you think the purpose of the summary is? Yeah, yeah. So on that occasion, the skandhas are four, and what are the four skandhas? What? Are we all in this section now? Does everybody find it? Page 103. Maybe you can have 103 and 26 available. Okay, so it says, on 103 it says skandhas are four, and I asked what are the four skandhas. And Blanche said? Everything but form. Everything but form. Okay. And the spheres are two, and what are those? What are the spheres? Kamarupa. What? Kamarupa.

[37:46]

Kamarupa. Okay, look back to page 27. 26. And what are the spheres? Ayatnas. Ayatnas. Okay. And so here, the Ayatnas, on page 103, the Ayatnas are two. On page 26, the Ayatnas are two. What are the two? Manindri Ayatna. Manindri Ayatna. And Dharma Ayatna. And Dharma Ayatna. Did you get that? What's manandriyatna? What is that? Manandriyatna? What's indriyatna? So what is it?

[38:49]

And what's the other one? Dharmayatna? You said? What's that? Mind object. [...] Mind object object. Mind object object. Mind object [...] Okay, which ones are they? Which of the two? And Dharma Doctor. Does that make sense that there would be two? Manavijjana Doctor and Dharma Doctor? Does that make sense? Wouldn't there be one more?

[39:49]

It says there's only two, but isn't that wrong? It's right also, but isn't it wrong? Wouldn't there be another one? Dhatus always come in threes. But it's included in the sphere. The modern Dhatu is in the sphere, and it's the modern tribe of Yatma. Right. But they repeat these things. So, what would the third daptu be? Manodaptu. Manodaptu. So you'd have mind organ, manodaptu, mind consciousness element, manodinjana daptu, and the object, danodaptu. Okay, then the nutriments are three, both in this state and in the first state. What are the nutriments?

[40:52]

Can I pay 103? Yeah. That's a kid's name. What are the nutrients? What do those mean? The point, the whole addiction that I have, the definition for mental impression, is a condition for the three times of feeling, a condition for the three times of feeling, agreeable, disagreeable, indifferent, then mental bullishness, carnal, and defeat, either, and then

[42:03]

So what are these? What are these nutrients? Did you see? Where'd they come from? Huh? Is that the elements? Why are they grouped like this? What's the advantage of grouping them like this? What are they trying to show? Is it found there? Faculties are five.

[43:24]

Where are the faculties? Faith? What? The faculty is in what form? The five. On 103, what are the five faculties? So on page 27, what are they?

[44:25]

So there's eight on the first page and five on the... There's eight in the wholesome and five in the unwholesome. The kid in the jhana is five. What are the jhana? What? Yeah, not someone else. That's pretty good. Okay, then the path are four. And the powers are four. And the causes are two. Greed and delusion. And back in the first one it says the causes are three.

[45:31]

What are the causes there? All the causes. Right. And so you see they use the word heetu here for cause. Usually we say root. But anyway. She said cause. Root's a little bit better. The root in this, the use of root here is better, but you just use hey to and then you know which it means in one case and which it means in the other. Okay, and then the rest are pretty similar, aren't they? Okay. And now I'd like you to, for next time, I'd like to start studying, I know she has some idea.

[46:33]

I'd like to go and start studying the process of perception. And to study the process of perception, you have As I mentioned a number of times, and as you read what I read, Buddhists choose the paradigm of perception as the way to teach the Dharma. There are various other mental functions, but the paradigm of perception is the one they use the most. The Dhatus and the Atanas are built on the model of perception, object, organ and consciousness.

[47:17]

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