It says, thought engaged on the higher ideal. It says, the first path. And what's the first path called, usually? Sotapati or Sotapana. It says, the 20 great methods. Visati, mahajnana, no, mahayaya, rap meditation, janam. Four modes of progress in purification. Which are the states that are good?

[01:01]

He cultivates the jhana of the higher ideal, the rap meditation, whereby there is going forth and onward, making for the undoing of rebirth. And when that he may attain to the first stage he has put away with all views and opinions, and so, aloof from sensuous appetites, aloof from evil desires, enters into and abides in the first jhana, wherein conception works and thought discursive, which is born of solitude, is full of joy and ease, Progress peer to being difficult, intuition sluggish. Then there is contact, feeling, perception, thinking, thought, conception, discourse, thought, joy, ease, self-collectedness.

[02:09]

The faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, wisdom, ideation, happiness, vitality, and the faculty of believing. I feel come to know the unknown. right views, intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right endeavor, right mindfulness, right concentration, powers of faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, wisdom, conscientiousness, fear of blame, the absence of lust, hate, dullness, covetousness, and malice. Right views, conscientiousness, fear, blame, serenity, lightness, plasticity, facility, fitness, and directness in both sense and thought. Mindfulness, intelligence, quiet, insight, grasp, and balance.

[03:17]

These, now these, are whatever incorporeal, causally induced states. There are, on that occasion, these are the states that grip. Contact, feeling, perception, thinking, and thought are described in two through six. Okay, then back to the beginning again. It says, what are the states that are good? He says, when he cultivates the jhana of the higher ideal, when he cultivates the transcendental jhana, the super mundane jhana, what does cultivates mean to you? Produce it.

[04:21]

Produce it. What? Consciously encourage. Consciously encourage. Develop. Develop. Develop. Evolve. What word, what Sanskrit or Pali would you use there? Evolve. Bhavana. Is this word the opposite of spontaneous? Is it like spontaneous and prompted? Is this word the opposite of spontaneous? Well, I mean... Or cultivated? Yeah.

[05:22]

What was the word for spontaneous? What was the word for prompted? Prompted... What was it, Jack? What was the word for prompted and unprompted? Do you remember the word? In Pali, a Sanskrit? Do you remember, Steve? Samyutta. What? Samyutta. Samyutta. What? Samyutta. [...] Awesome. And what's the word this means, Tom?

[06:22]

The core is the roots of the coral. Samskar. Samskar. That's what prompt and unprompted is. What word can you say? He said . OK. You didn't want to say anything about this word cultivated? Well, another English You know, in the book by Frank Kirk, it says, pain closest attention to that which is the, and in front of his after that has that word, for violence.

[07:23]

Pay close attention to that which has been endured. It's a word for meditation, isn't it? It's usually translated as mental culture. Meditation, yes. Very close attention to that which has been endured. What has been absorbed? I think he was talking, at least in this, he was talking about something called a glimpse of nirvana, like seeing a king on horseback and asking if it was the king, but not seeing him to do whatever it was you had in mind.

[08:38]

Okay, so Vrimsadhirama, what's that called? What's that? Yeah, gotrava is the name of the moment where it happens. Except the actual, that is called dasa or darsana. And these both refer to two different things, one called Darsana Magga, and Bhavana Magga, or Darsana Magga, or Dasa Magga. The path of insight

[09:58]

the path of meditation. This path of insight, the path of seeing, as she said, the path of seeing, this is not insight meditation. This means the first seeing of And thereby there is going forth and onward and making for the undoing of rebirth. Would you like to say anything here about this? I don't think it was such a step.

[11:10]

On this stage, everything in total has broken. So now, now on, From this state onward, things are different than they have been before. In these other states, all the states we studied last week, all these elevated states, were in a way common, getting lighter and lighter. That meant that the karma we were creating was getting lighter and lighter. But still karma was being created and created.

[12:13]

Still, there was some diluted volition. Now, everything we do is no longer doing. So these states, although they're listed in the good karma column, are not good karma. These states do not produce good karma. Once this darsana marga occurs, once we begin, it says, I don't know the Sanskrit for this, I mean I don't know what the Pali says, but it says, whereby there is going forth and onward. We've been studying various states of mind so far.

[13:25]

Now we have a state of mind where it says, whereby there is going forth. Going forth is, as you know, means to begin the practice. So this is the beginning of Buddhist practice here. The state of mind is describing the beginning of Buddhist practice. All the states we studied previously are practiced by anyone. Buddhists and non-Buddhists have experienced all the states previous to this one. But here there is going forth on the Buddhist path and onward. and making for the undoing of the earth. Before Buddha, although maybe there's some political discussion which we can get into, but basically before Buddhism, all these other states, all these other states and all these other practices that Buddha practiced, all the other teachers he ran into,

[14:32]

all their practices, no matter how wonderful they were, no matter what elevated states of consciousness they produced, they didn't break this cycle of rebirth. They continued to keep it rolling. Maybe they, as David was outlining last week, maybe they set up a situation where it was very likely that someone could have the opportunity to stop continuing to push the wheel. Notice I don't say stop the wheel, but stop continuing to push the wheel, stop propelling, stop contributing to karma. But only at this point are we describing a state of mind where you're not putting any energy into the cycle of rebirth any longer. You're not contributing any karma now.

[15:34]

Light or not light, you're not doing it anymore. So this is the first path of four paths. And after attaining this first path, will one become enlightened or not? Can you say it? According to this, you can say that there will be some number of lifetimes. There's a number of lifetimes. I mean, you won't stop and give up forever. I think I've read seven lifetimes, I think. So if it says seven lifetimes, does that mean then that this day and all the future states, these people will all eventually become enlightened? According to this tissue?

[16:49]

Or is it this or did you run into it yet? Yeah, the Dharasukra is advanced Mahayana teaching. But in the Theravada, in the early Buddhist teaching that we're studying now, have you heard him say that yet? Maybe they say it someplace, but I don't know what they say. This is the point of this. Well, it looks like it, doesn't it? In this text here. Irreversible here doesn't mean the same thing it means in Mahayana. In Mahayana they make people go much further before they're irreversible. This teaching here makes it sound like pretty early, as soon as you start practicing Buddhism, as soon as you have a glimpse of Nirvana, you say,

[17:58]

but in Mahayana Buddhism it says that you can... it makes a more dangerous... a more dangerous tour of practice. You can attain states that are much higher than not hot and still fall back in the Mahayana. So... but it also charts a more difficult course. It sends you through various... difficult terrain. They didn't ask you to go through in the Theravada Buddhist tradition. There they sent you right down a very simple chute. And if you followed that chute, it was pretty hard to fall off the road. If you were on the road, you were on the road. And it's hard to stay on the road long before you have this insight. With Mahayana, you're centered wider, truer, and you can make big mistakes and fall back until you're really far, far along.

[19:07]

But here it sounds pretty simple. It sounds like as soon as you're a Buddhist, as soon as you've had a glimpse of Nirvana, you're not going to fall back. You're never going to quit. Three down and look at this in another way. It said, then that he may attain the first stage, he has put away with views and opinions. What are those views and opinions? The, well, three fetters is one way to look at it, Daly. One is the view, false view on his self, or skepticism, skepticism or doubt, and believing in mere rules and rituals.

[20:16]

But there's another way that it means that you've given up all the akusala chittas that are associated with wrong view. And I have a question about that. So apparently there's, if that's the case at the first stage, there's still seven kusala achievements left that you have, and they're not on the chart. They stop at the superhuman thing. This, the I'm not saying that The Abhidhammat Sangha puts a correspondence between these things and states of consciousness, doesn't it?

[21:52]

Yeah. So it says that the sotapanna or the sotapatti, stream winner, enters into the first eradicates the first, second, fifth, sixth, and eleventh types of consciousness as he has destroyed the first two fetters, self-illusion and doubts. So you don't understand what those akusala cittas are? No, what I don't understand is on our chart that we have, my consciousness chart, the akusala citta stops at the rupa, the chara. And on this stage, there's seven akusala cittas left. Oh, I see. You're wondering. It's something other. I see. Why it stops there.

[22:52]

Is it because... Well, the way I understood this was, how can you be in a super-mundane state and still have these states of consciousness which are... How can you be in a state that's described like this? And then talk about suppressing states which are described in a different way. What do you think? Do you have any idea? Do you understand this question? Oh, on page 26. What other things do you still have? If you look on the consciousness chart, it's the akusala cittas without wrong view.

[24:02]

The joyful without wrong view and prompted and unprompted. And the upekka without the thing prompted and unprompted. The two angry states. And the indifferent moha state with restlessness. So if you look in the description, as we have a little bit description of the dharmas present in an unwholesome state of consciousness, let's say there's some unwholesome dharma there, moha or bhoga. So if in a super mundane state you suppress that, how can you suppress that state of consciousness or eradicate it or whatever? If you're already in a state, that's said, described, that would be the dharma.

[25:08]

So the dharmic description here doesn't include the recognition of the dharmas that are the mental states that are present in these unfulfilled states. So what do you mean by that? Potential. Potential? That it's not existing in his mind. That it's potential. The absence of the state in dharma Also, isn't there more hiding in the first three panels?

[26:15]

Does it say so? In the stamina list here, does it say so? Does it say in the stamina list? Does it say so? It says the episode logo here, but I thought we probably had it wrong. Well, it's the 10th, it's the last fetter where you saw Miojana that's given up, and it's given up on the stage of the Our House. Yeah. Yeah, so what's next? Are there some of the ones that you have, can still have, you just don't have an evil view? You do something, something prompts you to do it, and you kind of feel good about doing it, but you don't know that it's a bad thing. You don't have any view about it. You don't have an evil view. Is that clear?

[27:15]

Yes, sir. Even in the 24-hour matriarchy, in a point they have. Well, from what you were saying earlier, that these other super-mundane states shouldn't really be under kushala because they don't create karma. I wonder if that's for the same reason they don't have them under kushala. That they're from old... old karma that these states... What's from old karma? The Akusla Chittas. The Akusla Chittas, they're from old karma? Like, well, yeah. They're not from the karma of the... I don't know, I'm trying to make sense out of it, and I can't. The kusva-cittas aren't from old karma. They are new karma. Yeah, right. And these states are under kusva, and you said they had no right to be.

[28:23]

Well, they're not really kusva-cittas, but they put them there so that you'll be sure not to think they're akusva. They're not akusva, but they're also not kusva. But if they want to put them in a chart someplace, they put them there. so that you don't think that they're accrucial, because they're not accrucial. If anything, if you have to make a mistake, think that they're crucial. It sounds like they actually intended to be crucial, and that they have a corresponding resultant state. I wasn't questioning that these were more accrucial. It sounded like they intended them to be crucial. Yes, that there is a corresponding resultant state of consciousness. Yes. states. Because there's fruit states. Well, I took it to be their intention to describe the fruit states resulted from the path states, the crucial states.

[29:37]

Mm-hmm. We can do this now. I can't decide whether to get into this now or get deeper before we get into it. These are 18 through 21 on this chart, super mundane. It's a conscious... Will you even say something? I was going to Dr. Peter's question. The sort of is said to eradicate . That doesn't mean that other of those patterns, while being not eradicated, because if they're not eradicated, it might come up in other states' practice.

[30:43]

that is the Southern Kvala always in Southern Kvala states of practice or is it possible to have other states of practice? Well, I can only give you a for instance in that is that Gunther says that there's Mana, which is conceitedness, which is one of the fetters in every state of the Kvala culture. So that fetter there is in part in the state of Kvala. So I imagine the other state too. I was also asking, once having a local power state of practice, is it possible to have a state that's not a local power state of practice? Yeah, so they say the once returner goes to greed and hatred, but yeah, I think that's true.

[31:59]

Who can remember what it was? How would you know that? After doing, like, the question of really self-illusion, living that first moment, completely reactivate, self-illusion and doubt. It feels like the study question the woman's kind of asking is, you know, the fight and glint, those two kind of, you know, you don't know about every, I don't know, what this is really doing. It seems as if it's, it seems as if the community practice is actually doing that. Can you tell me what the Dharma is actually about?

[33:08]

Just that? Yeah. The one that we're just reading. When the spiritual pilgrim realizes he's in the Ravana for the first time, he's called a certain part of what he has already experienced that leads to the Ravana for the first time.

[34:34]

He eliminates three feathers, namely self-illusion, doubts, and afference to wrongful rights and fair notice. As he has not eradicated all feathers that bind him to existence, he is recorded as second Christ at the most. In subsequent births, he may or may not be aware of the fact that he is a sacrament. Like the old lesson, he says he's a character with a feeling of self-disdain. It's the same. And in one of the verses, it says, he is moreover absolved from mistakes of work. So he plays that karma out in other lifetimes? Right. Right. There are five. There are five states of consciousness that he never enters. And those are the ones that are connected with wrong give, I think.

[35:45]

Yeah. Every one of them is the one connected with wrong give, saying, you know at least what's happening. But he said you don't have to be aware of it. What things do you have to be aware of? The fact that he was at the state of self-atonement. Where did you read that, Mark? 68. Yes. Yes. So it's something like that moment of insight, there's a reorganization of possible combinations.

[37:50]

That's it, we're done. They don't come into karmination again. They don't like that. Their consciousness wouldn't. Whatever it is, they're hoping to dwell in power and nothing yet. They're pooping in karmination. Good morning. In the next one, the next absorption, that will not be so. I don't know where it is. More tested jumping. They're weakened. One is the water gaps. But that greed, David, is kamma, kamma raga.

[39:05]

It's greed of the kamma of the chara. So I guess you do go that way. You still have that. And then from there, the next part of the arhat gives up on the greed for the rupa and the alu. It's just, you can ponder on it. So you keep ice every now and then to reorganize. Or less intense level, like the second inch or so. And the third level, they're just wiped out. Except for the other part. It's saying that that's the point where something actually happens. That's what it sounds like to me. In a way, all this resonance is just kind of shuffling around. With that point of insight, there's something that happens. Yeah, I was remembering on the once-returner, the discussion of when they weaken the Kamaragat and Patrika hatred.

[40:31]

They have it, but it's very weak. It's not like normal emotions. It's very subtle. But it's inside you. Sometimes it exists. It's there. I guess my question is, in what realm do these akusala cittas, I think in Kuntra's terms, emotions, where these are, or how they're experienced, if they're really subtle emotions, Would have been locked or something. If they're not regular, not regular emotions. The Akusala Csikszentmihalyi that you still have, just that in the Once-Returner, he still, he weakens these Kamaraga and hatred, but they're still there.

[41:46]

They're very subtle. I was just wondering, taking that example, where the akusala citta that are remaining on the first stage, where they're enacted, are they really subtle? These people, these various kinds of saints are also called sometimes, these four paths are also sometimes called four moments.

[42:59]

So what is being described here is four moments of consciousness. Well, I haven't run into the term irreversibility in this here so much. It comes up more in Mahayana. But to conclude, I think, that after you've attained this first path, this first moment, after this first moment is experienced, after this gotrabhut, you have destroyed much klesha, much defiled thought. It talks about these fetters, these personality, the doubt, and the mere rule and ritual put away. But for those to happen, actually, without saying so, you also suppress many, many emotional states.

[44:05]

Particularly it says, the first, second, fifth, sixth, and eleventh types of the kosha chittas. So the Abhidharma Kosha explains this also in more detail. It's better not to go into that right now, but basically when this first insight occurs, what they describe here is the suppression of intellectual, types of binding forces. And later, they describe the liberation from emotional forces. This first one happens in one moment, and the other ones happen also, each one is a moment. But the space in between them might be quite long. The other ones are more physical.

[45:12]

These are more mental. And when these mental ones happen, still though, many emotions are suppressed or are cut. When darshan amarga occurs, a large number, all the basic emotions are cut. But if you look at the description here, it sounds like they're just talking about intellectual views being cut. But actually that's not so. Actually also, all the basic emotions are cut at this point. They're cut. For that time? For that thought element? For that thought moment and forever. Yeah, they're cut. No, you don't get postcards.

[46:23]

Plus, you suppress these things called the fetters. You suppress view and self. What? You suppress or erase. You erase view and self. view and doubt, the view that you can't trust the Dharma, and mere rule and ritual. So there's three kinds of discipline. One kind of discipline is called... One is called Pratimoksha Samvara. Another one is called Dhyana.

[47:28]

Dhyana. Samvara. And the other one is called And you're talking about these and working out Darmakosha. This is near-rule initial. It's the complex rules that the Theravada monk spotted, or also the Sarvastivata monk spotted. You feed the meat, and you want to practice these. Condition ethics. Condition ethics. And then you go on to practice these, the jhanas. But these jhanas are different from jhanas that we were just talking about before. What's the difference?

[48:36]

They're not static. How are they not static? They're paying the first attention to the dynamic of the world instead of some statins. What's the dynamic of the ongoing flow? Yeah. So they're making videos during rebirth. They're not creating karma. They have a different object. You said they're looking at the ongoing flow of the rising dharmas. It's fine, you can use the glasses. Focus on sexuality. And this is Bhavana. Bhavana, the Darshanah cut many, many emotional pressures. And it also took care of, it suppressed, took care of this kind of discipline.

[49:38]

You don't need this kind of discipline anymore. And it also got rid of the belief in self. The belief in self is, one way to put that is that we now, you saw the impermanence of self. You saw the personality of self, like suffering. And you also lost your doubt at that time. Dominically speaking, one difference in the dharmas that are described here, it says, the faculty of believing is now there, that I shall come to know the unbeliever. Then this practice loosens. It loosens. the emotional roots. All the emotional roots have been cut, but this one loosens the emotional roots.

[50:41]

So, the book being told, it looks like you're being told that all the emotional roots are cut, and also that your basic intellectual views are dropped, and then you enter a stage of practice from then on, which is more physical, and which looks like it loosens the roots, So although there's a basic emotional roots of the cut, still there must be most others are still left undone. These others are different from each other, basically. So in the next page, we'll be going to be turning These two more gross aspects of aversion and attraction are weak and conducive. And finally, they're... Is that because he's practicing with the sea? Is that because he's practicing with the sea?

[51:44]

God's practicing with the sea. I guess I'm just thinking about one last thing. Here, darshanamada. Then bhavani is coming. It won't start all of a sudden. You get it that way. Yeah, darshanamada actually starts in the second after this is at the end. We don't pause somehow. This turn doesn't come up. It's not used in connection with other jhanas. So here now, in the next stage, we begin to loosen, and finally in the next stage, and then the last five are done in the last stage. Also they're done by opening the ear. Still the meditation is different.

[52:48]

But this meditation, this insight meditation, This is not jhanic meditation anymore. It's called jhana, but it's not jhana. It's not quieting, trance meditation anymore. Now the object before us are buddhist objects. Are the eyes open? Eyes are open. Whether the eyes are open or not, I can't say whether these ancient Buddhist priests did their practice with their eyes open. But the eyes are open. You're looking at a reality, which is just the same whether your eyes are open or shut. So their eyes could have been open, but I don't know if they were. If you can see the emptiness of your new idea of self with your eyes shut, okay, that's okay.

[53:57]

If you can see with your eyes open, it's okay. It doesn't seem like you need to close your eyes anymore. In the other jhanas we can see you needn't to close your eyes. You had to close your eyes to work with that, that dynamic image, and to work with that image extended. Now what you're seeing is the emptiness of everything, external form, our own usual idea of the self that we carry around, and you can see it, empty, falling apart. This begins to sound more like our practice, actually, to me. And the last of those stages, then you suppress the attachment to the rupa jhana, the rupa doctor. And then you give up the habit to a rupa doctor for those habits in those stages. And you drop arrogance.

[54:58]

And so on. But what's the difference here, in D and B4? Are you people Buddhists? Frigilists? So these markings come up less often. And when they do come up, is there a difference between when they came up before? In your own experience, do you feel like you could ever fall back? Well, the other ones that we're talking about suppressing, talking about these fetters, okay? These are no longer names for states of consciousness. These are no longer names for dharmas.

[56:04]

What are they talking about? Let's look at the Dhamma list a little bit. It says that... It says, so first of all you put away with views and opinions, and so aloof from sensuous appetites, aloof from evil desires, one enters into and abides in the first jhana wherein conception works and thought discursive, which is born of solitude, It's full of joy and ease, progress thereto being difficult and sluggish, the intuition's sluggish. Then there is contact, feeling, perception, thinking. And what's thinking again? Chaitanya. So here's Chaitanya. Now Chaitanya's under the influence of darsana-mārga.

[57:08]

So Chaitanya doesn't feel like coming anymore. One does come. Thought and conception is what? And discursive thought, vichara. And pithi, sukha, and cittas, ekagatthas. And faculty of faith. It says here the faculty of faith, okay? And then down here it says the faculty of believing, which is an addition. It has all the faculties, plus the faculty of believing. I shall come to know the unknown. Right views, right intention, right speech, right action, and so on. Then it says that they're the same. First one, they're the same as two through six.

[58:09]

Then it says, What on that occasion is conception, vittaka? The ratiocination is conception, which on that occasion is the disposition, the fixation, the focusing and the application of the mind, right intention, path component contained in the path. This is the vittaka that there then is. So then it says discursive thought is the same as described in eight. So what do you think this means? There's a change here in the initial application of the mind. What's the change? What? The object has changed, but that's not what they're talking about here.

[59:16]

But the char doesn't change. What does that mean, that vichara doesn't change? From that initial application of mind, how does your mind proceed from there? Vichara seems to imply to me that it's more than one moment of vichara. It's discursiveness. Applications, static, and HR seems more dynamic. Well, another, the way I thought of it was that you have kind of a new

[60:31]

or a new approach to the meditation object, a more correct approach, an approach that doesn't have to be transcended, that's not fixed, that's not rigid. You don't need to evolve out of this, you don't need to evolve above this state where you won't have to talk to the president anymore. Because of the way you're using vitaka, you've had to move away from it. Because the way you used vitaka to get yourself out of a heavy karmic situation, once you used it, it was a limitation. Now vitaka is not being used that way anymore. You don't need to get out, you don't need to drop it, you don't need to get away from it. It's not being used in a way to induce any state. And... Another thing is that we see that vichara isn't talked about.

[61:34]

But to me, that's all right because vichara is sort of just continuing, or continuing this vibration or this approach or this intention towards the meditation object. So it seems all right to me. Does vichara disappear then on the next jhana? Does it disappear? Like in the rupa jhana. Does it? Yeah, well, in the rupajanas, there's no, in the third jhana, there's no vittaka. Well, just, here, look, I don't think so. I don't think so. Okay, so it's just the same on that. Since, uh, Vitaka has changed in this way. There doesn't seem to be any evolution necessary now. Didn't we have vitaka in a regular jhana, or a group of jhana?

[62:39]

We were looking at a lump of clay. Thinking about a lump of clay. Can you talk about what you would think about in this vitaka? Just some simple-minded example. Does anybody want to answer that? Do you understand what I'm saying? I think it's the three marks that everything is not self, ill, or hermit. I think that's the meditation object. Actually, there's many meditation objects now. Now you can... Anything that can remind you of Buddhism is a meditation object. What he said is one more? Meditation has three marks. Meditation on three marks, or David put it in a more general way, it's meditation on the flow. One of the marks is kind of the flow of impermanence. But you could also meditate on the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.

[63:42]

Or you could just meditate on one of the marks. All, specifically, Buddhist meditations now are available to you. So if it's a vitaka, you would look at something like a pot you've just made and you say, well, that may bust sooner or later anyway. Is that a meditation? It's conceivable something like that could make something like this. But to meditate on the obnoxiousness of various things could not come into here. Anything that that your meditation structure would feel particularly remindful to you of your insight or push you on to a further state would be a problem.

[64:35]

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