As usual, this is a special day. To your health. I just wanted to make clear, is a workshop destined for Nirvana. So if you have another destination, perhaps you should get off the plane. Someone said to me, you're having a workshop next weekend at No Abode on palliative care. This is not about palliative care. Or this is palliative care for the survivors of the death of some loved one or teacher or student or family member.

[01:02]

A number of you, I think, are actually have done hospice training, right? And intend to do hospice training. Some of you are even thinking of being hospitals. Right? That's very important work and a lot of There's been a lot of education in Zen Center about hospice work, but there has not been much education in Zen Center about taking care of people. I mean, there's been a lot of work, but it's been among a small subset of Zen Center, namely me and my priest people. I had a lot of experience taking care of deceased people and their I probably, although I'm not aware of it, have quite a bit of experience being a deceased person.

[02:07]

And recently I've been putting a lot of effort into the ceremony which I would like performed when I die. And the ceremony I would like performed is a ceremony which most people have never seen, but it's actually quite traditional in Asia. I would just like, not so much that I want that done for me, although I would like it done for me, I would like it mostly done for my successors, for the people who live beyond me, so they know how to do the ceremony, and So you know how to do the ceremony and experience it. But what I'm going to talk about today is, to some extent, a wide variety of possibilities of how you can take care of people when they pass away, and also how you could be taken care of.

[03:18]

Start contemplating how you would like to be taken care of, so you can transmit that to your friends and family and teachers so they can do this for you if you want. But also that you know what you could do. And also that you can be clear with others what they want done for themselves. A lot of people just don't know anything about this. They die and they leave it to other people. They don't tell people what they want. they don't know what they want. If you want to know more about how to do this, how to take care of people who have died and also take care of their family. When I was a kid I never went to a funeral and partly because of the influence of my mother

[04:26]

who did not like funerals. So when people died, she didn't say, well, let's go to the funeral. She thought that funerals were... I think she thought it was hysteric. And a lot of people do. So I never went to a funeral before. I came to Zen Center. And not too long after I was at Zen Center, I saw it was a type of funeral ceremony, which I'll tell you about, and it was performed by the founder of Zen Center, Suzuki Roshi, and he did it for one of his senior lay students, who was the editor of the book Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, Trudy Dixon. When I came to Zen Center, she was already quite sick, And I knew her, and she's a very wonderful person, wonderful Zen student.

[05:29]

And she really loved her and took care of her while she was dying. And then he did, which we Zen students were invited to. And I was really, I was, quite encouraged by the whole event. And I thought, oh, funeral ceremonies are for the living. For me, it was a very good experience for me to go to her funeral ceremony and to see the way Suzuki Roshi performed the ceremony. And then over the years, I've seen many more and participated in many and been the leader. But as I started to contemplate this more traditional ceremony which I wanted to have performed at Zen Center on the occasion of my death, and others too if they want, I realized that most people with a traditional funeral.

[06:44]

In a traditional funeral in Asia, the ceremony, the funeral starts at the moment of death. with the corpse. It does not start after the cremation. It doesn't start with the burial. It starts right away and it goes on for various lengths of time. But I still will be happy to talk to you about how to do it another way, but I will talk about the way of doing it with the corpse. The most common type of funeral ceremony that I've seen at Zen Center, and I've seen many, are done after cremation. The common way of doing a funeral ceremony is really more like a memorial ceremony, where the person dies

[07:53]

there's some ceremony or not, you go to the crematorium, and you bring the ashes back to the home or the temple, and then after that, you do a ceremony. But in a sense, it's really more of a memorial ceremony. A funeral ceremony is done more with the body, usually. But, in some cases, where you do it with the body, so then you can also do it with the ashes. I'd also like to say, maybe right now, that some think that, you know, having some kind of, I don't know what, event or ceremony with a corpse is, again, barbaric and horrible and, yeah, really not helpful.

[08:56]

That's how some people feel. They accept that they feel that way and that they don't want that. But some other people have found being with the newly deceased person, and for a while after that, they found very, very helpful. So just to mention many different ways of doing it, of dealing with death. One way, almost always, starts with feeling that the person has died.

[10:01]

Somebody owns it with somebody and they say that the person is deceased. And usually, I think it's a good practice to have somebody certify that the person is kind of legally dead. So that would be, I think, in some cases, if there's a hospice nurse there, they may be able to say that they feel so, or they may not feel confident to do that, and they can call in. who can certify and give a death certificate. So that's probably a good idea to do. If you feel the person has died, call in a legally empowered rehabilitation person. I don't know if all doctors can do it, but I think I wouldn't be surprised if they can.

[11:08]

Do you know if all doctors are qualified to They can write a death certificate. You can tell the doctor, if the person is in a relationship with a doctor, and tell the doctor that you would like to call them on a certain occasion and have them bring a death certificate. And the doctor says, okay, I'll do that. This is an arrangement you can make for yourself. with the doctor, or with somebody else. So it's understood beforehand, so you remember that you made the arrangement, because when the actual process starts, you're going to fail a lot of things. A big sense of responsibility may come over you. And it may be difficult to be present and calm. So it's good to rehearse these things. You say, okay, now she's died, or now I've died, so call the doctor.

[12:11]

I'm going to die now. Call the doctor, okay? Oh, she's died. Okay, now we call the doctor. The doctor writes a certificate. Now, at that point, you can move forward into other things. I just want to parenthetically say this, and you can bring up questions later, but from a certain point of view, in terms of understanding consciousness, the heart can stop, the breathing can stop, and the person can still be somewhat present and alive. People can come back after the breathing stops and the heart stops, And there's a number of Zen stories of where teachers have come back. Everyone thought they died, and then for various reasons they come back and say, well, I'm not dead.

[13:14]

And then later, it looks again like they're dead. And they don't come back and say, by the way, I'm not dead. They But sometimes there's a period of time between when everybody thinks the person has died and when they could be certified as such, and the person demonstrates later that they were not dead. Things like that. So there is a difference. There's various opinions about when the person's really fully dead. I would say when the consciousness is really dispersed from the body, in such a way that the person does not become conscious again. Maybe they're dead. It's nice to have a little time afterwards. Now, Dr.

[14:18]

From that point on, there's a number of ways to go. One way, which is quite simple, it's maybe the simplest way, and you could specify this, if you wish, for yourself, and family members could specify it for themselves, and you could have this discussion on the grant that you would like, or a family member or friend would like the body to be donated to scientific research. In which case, usually, the people who want this... ...on research or also on organ donation. So you can offer your body organs for donation and or research. And or research. In that case, the medical scientists can take the body rapidly. There won't be much time between the death certification and them coming to take the body away.

[15:31]

So that's when we do it, which doesn't cost anything, and you don't have to do anything, and the person itself doesn't have to do much. That's one way, and I think that I would completely support anybody that wanted to do that and testify that that was their... I witnessed that that... There might be a little bit of time between the death and when they arrive when there could be some kind of ceremony. We can talk about that. So that's one way. Another way is... And again, it depends on where the person dies. If they die in the hospital, it's good to have an understanding with the hospital how much time you have before they want to move the person out of the room.

[16:38]

And of course, where can you move the person to? If the person's in a... What's it called? Well, there's a nursing facility in there, where you have lots of care for the person, but it's not called a nursing facility. If the person dies in those situations there, too, it would be good for you to have an understanding, you, the person who's dying, or you, the person who's caring for the dying person, how much time do you have after the death before the body has to be moved out of the facility, either out of the room into a refrigerator, or moved out of the facility entirely because the facility does not have a refrigerator? Find out how much time you have

[17:42]

And then given that, you can tell whether there could be a ceremony before the body needs to be moved out. So I know of a woman who is currently in a place for older people. But it's not a nursing facility. I think there are doctors and nurses in the facility, but mostly she's cared for by non-nurses, by caregivers who are not nurses. And the understanding is if she dies, she can be there for a while, but not very long. And so the understanding is she will be taken by the, and she wishes to be cremated, so she can be taken away to a care facility to the home of her daughter.

[18:46]

So the cremation mortuary company is legally, in this state, is legally going to take a body from hospital or carrying it back home. So she probably will not die at home, she probably will die at this place, and then she'll come to the home. And there she can be for a while. And there will be time in this case to do some ceremonies before she leaves the facility. It would be good to know that, in that case. And again, at that point, the person can go away from the care facility back to the temple, or they can go from that facility after a brief ceremony, to the crematorium, in which case they would probably be, again, the body would probably be in some refrigerator for a while, probably.

[20:04]

They probably wouldn't go right from the facility into the crematorium. If they would, then you could have a ceremony at the crematorium and at the bedside. and do the cremation. Usually there's a little bit of a space between bringing the body to the crematorium and doing the cremation. Usually. And similarly, if a person would die at home, have a brief ceremony, and they could go right to the crematorium right after that. That would be possible. If you wanted that or if they want that. Again, if a person dies in a facility or at home, either way, if there's going to be a burial, that also usually cannot be done immediately.

[21:08]

So if the person can stay at home for a while and then go to be buried, there's opportunities there for a full set of ceremonies. If they're in a care facility, they usually have to leave. And again, they can go home or go to the situation of being in a business, a mortuary business for a while before the burial or the cremation. Can I add one thing? Sure, please. If somebody dies in a hospital, often you can ask the doctor, listen, how long can this person stay undisturbed? Six hours. Six hours. So you could stay right in the room. Then you could have a ceremony before they get taken off by the Lord.

[22:11]

Okay, so Grace says that In some cases, the doctor can keep the hospital staff away for up to six hours. So if that was the case, you could do what could have six hours, and you could do ceremonies for six hours in the hospital. That might be the case. Yes. I don't know if people still... Years ago, you know, a Bowen would take a body like she did in Category and pack it with ice. Not ice, but with frozen vegetables, you know. And then you could keep it longer at home. Yes, we can talk about... I don't know if they still... In the case of having the body for a while, we can talk about things to do. So those are the beginning, simplest alternatives.

[23:19]

The person dies, certification, do what you can under the circumstances, and do a ceremony right away if you can, and then if the cremation is going to be done right away, then there can also be another ceremony at the crematorium before almost all crematoriums will have a place where you can do a ceremony in an adjoining room or at the furnace. The medical one, what happens after the tissue and stuff has been removed? Does the corpse end up in the cycle? I think that be happy to take care of the whole body.

[24:23]

They remove what they need, and then they can use the body for research. But I'm asking, is it also possible to have it returned so then you can do all the female things? I do not know if that is possible. Do you know, Grace, if you can get the body back and bury it? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. So if one was interested in that, they probably should find out. I haven't heard about that, about getting the body back and then having cremation and or burial. So now I'd like to move into the more complex way of doing it, which is the way most people don't know about. So now the person has died. And we have an opportunity to be with the body for a while. So, and the first phase could be in one location where the person has died, and that location could be in a temple, in a home, or in a hospital, or hospice, and so on.

[25:37]

We have the person, we're not in a room. Now, the person has told us, or you've told people, that you want... Let's just start with the full funeral. You want a full traditional Soto Zen funeral. As soon as the person dies... And again, you wouldn't even need to wait for the certification before you do the ceremony, but you could. because you're not going to do anything to the body. We do a ceremony, which is the ceremony upon death. And basically what we do is we chant scriptures, we invite whoever the person wants, if they haven't said, who the responsible

[26:39]

Our family has invited to gather around and do a ceremony. And ceremony usually involves reciting scriptures. The traditional scriptures that are recited in Soto Zen are called the brief final teachings of the Buddha. It's about five or ten pages long. And its instruction is given by the Buddha to his disciples. So, one possible thing to recite and or have recited by scripture reciters. You can invite a chorus to recite. Or if you can't do it, you can invite reciters to recite this scripture, which in this tradition is what the Buddha instructed his students.

[27:49]

So you hear what the Buddha instructed. his students. And there's eight basic points of instruction. So this title is Parinirvana, which means complete nirvana, brief admonition scripture. Do you have it there? I just want to see it. So it's a scripture, and that could be recited. It would take not too long, but anyway. I said it's about this version, double-spaced. It's about 10 pages. Yes? If we wanted to get a copy of that, how would we do that? I understand that I will be

[28:49]

blessed with an assistant, again, before too long. And you can contact RevAssistant at www.revassistant.org if you'd like a copy of this. And that will be going to happen in a week or so. So you can have a copy on hand to use for yourself, or to be used for yourself, or for your friends if they wanted that. scripture, or it's actually more of a verse that's recited, is what's called Verses in Praise of the Relics of the Buddha. There's a chant, which is, called the verses and praise of the Buddha.

[29:59]

And that also is traditionally, in this tradition, chanted right away, along with or instead of this brief admonitions. And it is chanted three times. It goes like this. With wholehearted reverence, we bow to the relics of the true body of the teachings of the Tathagata Shakyamuni, who is fully endowed with the myriad virtues, to the Dharma body and to his stupa, which is the whole universe. With deep respect we venerate the one who manifests a body for our sake. With the sustaining power of the Buddha, which enters us as we enter it, we verify awakening.

[31:11]

By means of the Buddha's spiritual power, we benefit living beings. Arouse the thought of awakening, cultivate the bodhisattva practice, and together enter perfect peace, the knowledge of the equality of all beings. Now let us reverently bow. So that's done three times. Again, you could You could do this for somebody, or you could ask somebody to do this for you. Now, if you wanted other scriptures recited at that time, I would say totally appropriate. If you'd like chapters from the Lotus, if you'd like the Heart Sutra recited, if you'd like what we just chanted now, a few minutes ago recited, you could specify. or you could discuss with your loved one what scriptures they would like.

[32:16]

And they don't have to be... If they wanted something that wasn't, strictly speaking, in the Buddhist canon, that would be fine. I'm just talking about the more traditional Buddhist ceremony. Yes. There is a saying in the Zoroastrian religion that the soul gets to what we call nirvana here after 30 years, after from the time of the being who diseases, it takes 30 years to go to the complete state, the ultimate state. And then Like, they do the ceremonies first, the initial ceremony, and then they do it every once a week for four weeks, and then once a month, and then once a year, and they do it for 30 years. Is there such a thing in Buddhism, too?

[33:18]

Yes. Talking about the first, like, few days, I'm talking about a ceremony that would occur... Basically, within three days. Because you've got the body. I'm talking about what you do when you've got a body. And then once the body has been buried or cremated, and there's other ways, like the Tibetans, they'd have sky burial because the ground's too hard or too cold. And they also sometimes don't have wood where they live. They have a ceremony by which they actually offer the body to birds. So, I'm talking about... I'm concentrating on why you still have the body. After that, there's lots of other things we can do, and maybe we'll have time today to talk about it.

[34:19]

We can have another workshop to talk about what do you do after basically around three days. Okay? But now, anyways, we're at the point where it's like a few minutes, all right? I'm talking about what you do if you want. And I am specifying that I would like this element in the process to be done. I would like people to gather around the courts and recite these two scriptures, and I might add to the list at least these. And I want people to know it beforehand and maybe even practice chanting it so that they chant, you know, beautifully. Yes. I have another question. Just curious, could the body, if this were, say, someone who's associated with Zen Center or who was a student, could the body be in Mizando for this particular period?

[35:27]

I would say, if you ask me, I would support that. However, I would have to have meetings with many people. That's why I'm doing this for me, because in my case, I think I can say yes. I think I'm telling people I want this, and that involves me, I shouldn't say me, this body going to the zendo. in a few minutes. So, we usually do not have dying people in the Zendo. But after they die, they can come to the Zendo. But each person has to make arrangements about this. We can't have every area come into a zendo. But if we're careful, some of us may work it out that we'll actually go to a zendo and be in the temple. That's possible.

[36:31]

And this is another temple where people could be. I was thinking of buying. I still am thinking of buying. Having it here in no boat, but I didn't get it together before the workshop. So you could actually, we could practice moving bodies into caskets. But I didn't get a casket yet. But I haven't got permission from the no board, board of directors to buy a casket and have it here. Okay, so now here we are. Person has died. We have now completed the first ceremony. All right? You don't have to have a priest there to do this ceremony. However, if a person wants a priest, then you should call a priest around the same time you call a doctor, or have a priest there, if possible, so you can do the ceremony right away, if you'd like somebody who has a lot of experience with this.

[37:35]

Okay? Yes. If we were to ask for a priest... Excuse me, let me say a Zen priest. Yeah, exactly. Would it be best to call the Zen hospice, or the Zen center, or is there a particular... Again, if you're speaking for yourself, I would say do whatever you want. I'm not saying what's best. Pardon? It was my stomach. I didn't hear you. He said, do whatever you want, and my stomach went, oh. So you could say, you could decide to do that, or you could, you know, I've told many people, if you want me to do your funeral, you better, you've got to ask me beforehand, not after. That doesn't work. And I don't go up to people and say, well, I'm going to do the... I'm not going to argue with people about it.

[38:44]

You have to tell beforehand your family and friends what you want done. And you can say, I want you to contact Zen Hospice and have them arrange for a priest. Or you can contact a priest. You need to do the ceremony... And I'd like to talk about the ceremony too. You might say, all right, I'll just leave it to you. Whatever you think is good. Okay? So it is important that you, if you want a Zen priesthood ceremony, that you write it out. and give copies to your family so they know you want this, because it's not good to be discussing this afterwards. That's not good, I don't think. It's like, you don't know. Don't change your mind when you've passed away. So tell them beforehand what you want done, and then it usually goes quite smoothly.

[39:48]

Maybe there's some argument or something, but then you work that out. Don't have that happen the last minute or right away expect people to work this out. It's much easier to do this beforehand. So anyway, now you've done the first ceremony. The next ceremony is the table audit. Did you put the massage table outside? Yes. So, it will be the ceremony. It's not really a ceremony, but it is a ceremony. The next ceremony is washing the body and changing the clothes. Okay? And again, you can say whether you want that done or not, but let's just... That usually is part of it, is to wash the body right after this first ceremony. So the first ceremony is done without touching the body or moving it at all.

[40:49]

After the ceremony, now we're ready to touch the body and move the body a little bit. Okay? So the first ceremony is chanting whatever scriptures one has chanted. That's the first ceremony. Yes. And again, you can do this yourselves. I entrust you to do this for people, even if you're not a priest. And you can also invite a priest or many priests to come and help you do this. Basically, you know, from my perspective, you can invite a lot of people to this event. But this is not something to wait around for. This is for the people who can be there like that. We can do things later, you know, where we want people coming from long distances.

[41:53]

But I'm talking about, got a body, let's take care of it. This is really a wonderful, important moment. And so let's have the people who can be there, be there and not wait around a long time. You say, what about if my daughter's in Palo Alto? We say, well, that's a good question. Are you going to wait to your daughter? How long is this? Is it rush hour? You know, how, you know, two or three hours is maybe a long time to wait for this first ceremony. I would say, you know, I would say work that out. It's good to do something quite soon. Not absolutely necessary, but... When you start... Because we're not taking the body away, so family members can get there with the body. And again, if it takes them two hours, that's how long it's going to take them anyway. It's just a question of how you're going to hold things up, waiting for them to be there.

[42:58]

You're not going to take the body away. You won't have to take the body away, really, for three days. It could be longer, but that's usually the approximate limit. So again, we've still got the body here, we haven't washed it yet, and you can ask questions before you wash the body. Like, what kind of soap should I use? So you spoke about if you... The body is going to be harvested for organisms not there, so in terms of the first part of the ceremony, do you just go to an altar and start doing it? Yeah, so if the body is going to be donated, you could start doing this right away, and maybe you do it while they're taking the body away. They might be in the room with the body, and you're chanting while they're taking this precious body away. And then if the body's gone, you just keep chanting. And you finish that.

[43:59]

If you don't even have time to get that together, then you start doing, basically, you could do as much of this process as you want to do without the body. And you might feel, people might feel like, yeah, I think we can still do the chanting, even though their body's been taken out of the room. I have nothing against that. I'm just trying to think logistically in the hospital, like if they're taking out of that room, maybe you've got to just find somewhere to continue chanting. Yeah, they might say, get out of the room. Right. And so you can go up in the hall and do it. You have to say, get out of the hall. You can go to the guest waiting area. And then the people in the waiting area say, get those Buddhists out of here. And you go in the parking lot. So anyway, I think you can do these ceremonies wherever it feels right to do them. And also, if you're not rushed... You don't have to do ceremony instantly, but it's basically done soon after.

[45:04]

And then when that's done, and you register that the first ceremony has occurred, you maybe feel like, okay, are we ready to wash the body? And somebody might say, no, I'm not ready. I don't want to, not yet. And you say, okay. Maybe an hour later, okay, now you can wash the body. That's nice to not rush this. An hour maybe is enough. Now we can wash the body. If it's possible to create an altar and to make an offering for or accompany the scriptures, is that possible? Yeah, thank you. We can talk about that now. As soon as the person... You can immediately create the altars. Or you can wait until after you wash the body and then create the altar.

[46:12]

It is good, actually, to make the altar either at the time of death, you could be making the altar, putting the altar together while the other people were chanting. Does that make sense? They got the chanting going on, very lovely, and people are getting it, kind of getting with the program here. This is happening. We're here. And some people are setting up the altar. Or you could do the chanting, wash the body, and while washing the body, you can only have maybe six people max washing the body. So other people could be setting up the altar while the body is being washed and being changed. So the ceremony after the body washing that time you probably should have the altar set up. You could have the altar set up for the first ceremony.

[47:12]

That would be fine. But not necessary. Because you might not want your moving furniture around and stuff. Does that make sense? Yes? Would there be any difficulty with setting the altar up when somebody was at the dying process while they were still I think that would be fine. That would be just fine. And a lot of people do kind of have altars when they're dying. It might be virtually set up in some cases already. And of course that's lovely. The person's in bed and there's an altar there. And that could be the altar. Okay? Okay? And if there wasn't an altar, it would be good to set it up. And again, it would be set up either in the same place as the person died, or where you're going to move the body after they die, into a casket.

[48:15]

In this ceremonial process, the altar and the casket, or the altar and the coffin, are together for the rest of the ceremony. Just a piece of advice or a word of caution. The body starts developing quickly, so if you want to get your body transferred into the casket, everything should proceed kind of quickly. Meaning you should have the first ceremony, then wash the body, then clothe the body, then transfer the body into the casket because rigor. So there is time pressure that Grace is mentioning. You do the ceremony and so that would be the issue of rigor mortis would, what do you call it?

[49:19]

Really long scripture. Laughter But it would also be OK. Yeah. And it's also difficult to change the clothes after rigor mortis. So practically speaking, it would be easier if the first ceremony is not real long. Like? Well, I think 45 minutes is OK. It would take a while to do this scripture. You can deal with 45 minutes, and especially if you have strong body washers. Okay, so we still haven't washed the body yet, which is fine. Rigor mortis is coming. How long does it take for rigor to... But I've experienced a person dying and doing the ceremony and washing the body and it being like 45 minutes, an hour before we start moving the arms into the position and I could feel it coming.

[50:36]

after about 45 minutes, but it's also somewhat useful to have a little rigor mortis, because then when you put the body in position, it stays. If you do it too early, and you put the body in position, then it starts shifting, and you have to rearrange it. So it's around an hour, it's starting to happen. Yeah. I'm still, you know, when somebody's in the dying process, are there scriptures that are recommended to chant at that time? Are there scriptures recommended to be chanted when a person is dying? The same scriptures that have been recommended for their whole life are still recommended. And if the person has made some requests, then those would be, of course, raised up high on the list. If you felt that...

[51:40]

It would be really helpful to someone, you could ask them if they'd like to hear it. But reading scriptures to dying people is, again, a long-standing, encouraged and appreciated practice. Are there special scriptures? There are so many special scriptures. How beautiful to read someone the Heart Sutra. How beautiful to read them a huge scripture when they die. Or like the Lotus Sutra is a scripture which says, when you recite the Lotus scripture, I recited the Lotus Scripture when I said, when you recite the Lotus Scripture, that's in the Lotus Scripture. When you say, recite the Lotus Scripture, at that moment, when you say that word, recite the Lotus Scripture, you have just recited the Lotus Scripture. And then it says, when you do that, Shakyamuni Buddha is born. Shakyamuni Buddha is not born.

[52:42]

And when you say that, you are reciting the Lotus Scripture. Shakyamuni Buddha... leaves home. You're reciting the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha leaves home. So that's a particularly dear one. That's the one that Dogen recited when he was So anyway, there's so many wonderful things to recite. And again, it doesn't have to be Buddhist, but we have tons, tons of scriptures that are good to recite when a person's passing away. It's very good. It's good for the reciters. Yes? Does rigor moris happen because a fluid is leaving the body so then you need to be I don't know the... I think the person is not... I work with bodies where there's not stuff oozing out. And I work with other bodies where there is stuff oozing out.

[53:47]

And the ones where the body was not oozing out, in that one particular recent case, the person hadn't been drinking for quite a while or eating for quite a while. So he was kind of dried up. I could feel his body tightening up. Other people have been eating right up till death. And so they sometimes do let out feces and other things come out of them. And that's part of the reason why in some cases we... But in some cases the person doesn't really exude lots of fluid. Yes? A little unclear about the coffin or the casket. So when Catherine Dennis passed, we sat with her for three days. We came and went. But she wasn't in a... Casket.

[54:47]

So was that for transportation? I would think... Was that what? For transportation? I'm a little unclear. Or is that for burial purposes? Again, I'm just talking about possibility. And I'm asking for that to be done. And I'm going to buy a casket. So when I die, there's going to be a casket close by. Okay. In Catherine's case, she did not make that arrangement. Okay. So there wasn't a casket. You don't have to have a casket. I'm just telling you about it. You have a casket. And if you don't, we can still move forward on this process. I'm just talking about having a casket, and I don't have one here today. But the next ceremony, actually, is traditionally done with the coffin. And then it stays in the coffin for... a day or two or three days.

[55:48]

Okay? And if you don't get it together to have a coffin, it's okay. I'm just telling you that that is a form. And you can make those arrangements. And it is nice, it's actually nice to put the person in a coffin if you're going to move them going to move them someplace else. It's nice to have a nice container so you don't have to take them out of whatever you move them into and put them in another one. It's nice to have one thing that's going to go. If possible. If it's not, we'll move them with a cloth. Again, you don't have to... One doesn't have to do it this way. We could have already sent the person away to the crematorium, but now we're talking about we have not sent the person away yet. We still have them. So you might just imagine we have this body now, okay?

[56:53]

And we're present with it. We're here. We're full of compassion for all beings, and we're taking care of this particular body. I think in Buddhism there's a tradition of the ritual bath, at least in Japan. And is this washing a ritual washing, as well as there may be stuff that's oozed out? It's a ritual washing, including the ritual of cleaning up potential mess. It's a ritual. mess, is there still value in the ritual? Yeah, well, most people are not, most people have at least a little perspiration, you know, so it is nice actually to wash the person even if they're pretty clean.

[57:57]

They might have even had a bath, a bath, Shortly before he died, he got up from his bed and walked through the kitchen, which was next to his bedroom, and went in, took a bath, and then went back to bed. So in his case, there was not bathium, except there was some in the cleanup. And he was cleaned up, ritually, and then he was moved down a couple rooms and laid out for the next part of the ceremony. I don't know what's... for whatever happened from the time he died until he was dressed, redressed, and moved into the next room. I was in after he moved into the next room. So I don't know what exactly the ritual process was.

[58:58]

They didn't put him in the zendo. They didn't put him in the... In Śrī Śrīla Śrīla's case, we did not... I'll tell you later about what we did with Śrī Śrīla Śrīla, okay? We are at the phase of washing the body. Okay? So, wash the body now? Yes. And Karen, did you bring some sheets? Did you bring your sheets? And we'll go wash the body. You can bring...

[59:33]

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