How can I cause living beings to enter from unsurpassed ways and quickly assault the body and kill us? Would you be comfortable opening that window a little bit more? Would that be okay with you, Liz? Is that okay? Open it a little bit more? Is that alright? Charlie? Charlie? In one sense, I'd like to open for whatever you'd like to offer, but I also felt it would be good to, in a sense, go back to the beginning, to reiterate something. And that is the beginning of the Scripture, where in...

[01:07]

We were told that the Buddha was dwelling in the city of Rajagriha on Vulture Peak with a huge assembly of a wide range of beings, great bodhisattvas, male and female saints and all kinds of followers and many kinds of beings that weren't human, celestial beings of many kinds. They're all there and they come to the Buddha and make offerings, great offerings to the Buddha. And then the Buddha gives a discourse of innumerable meanings. It doesn't say what the discourse was other than it just says he gave the discourse and that was the name of it.

[02:13]

That's all we hear in this scripture. And then he entered into concentration and contemplation called the station or, yeah, the station of innumerable meanings. So he enters in, he probably enters into contemplation of the discourse of the teaching he just gave. After he enters his contemplation, the sky rains down a wide variety of fabulous flowers and the earth shook. Innumerable earths or lands shook in six ways. This whole assembly is there. Seeing the Buddha, making offerings to the Buddha, seeing the Buddha, hearing the Buddha, seeing the Buddha enter into concentration of the teaching that he gave. The flowers falling, the earth shaking, they're all there.

[03:13]

And then the Buddha, from the tuft of white hair, his eyebrows a great light is emitted and goes off in all directions and each direction illuminates innumerable lands and all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and other beings. And so these people are sitting there seeing the whole universe illuminated, spiritually illuminated. And the assembly is the great bodhisattva Maitreya, the next Buddha in the next world epoch that will follow this one. And he's wondering what this... He's amazed by this scene and wonders what it is.

[04:21]

And... he thinks, oh, Manjushri Bodhisattva is in this assembly and he has studied with innumerable Buddhas in the past. Maybe he has seen this before. So he goes to Manjushri and asks Manjushri and Manjushri considers his past study with Buddhas and he said, yes, I have seen this before. The same amazing events of Buddhas in the past And when I saw this in the past, following this, the lotus flower, the great vehicle lotus flower of the sublime dharma sutra. So probably that's what's going to happen now is that the Buddha will expound that sutra again. And Maitreya and other beings hearing about this are very happy that they're going to get a chance to, they've just heard this other sutra, which we don't know what it was, but they've heard this other sutra, seen this fabulous event, and now they hear they're going to hear this sublime teaching that follows this.

[05:49]

So they're very happy at the end of the chapter one. And then chapter two starts with the Buddha quietly and serenely arising from his concentrated state and right away telling people that this wonderful Dharma is very difficult to understand if you're not a Buddha. And he goes on for a while about how difficult it is to understand. And nonetheless, the people are still happy at the prospect of hearing this teaching even though the Buddha says it's difficult to understand. And And then Shariputra begs the Buddha to teach and then begs him to teach.

[07:02]

And the Buddha says, that's enough. That's enough. But I'm afraid if I would teach this, people would become shocked and dismayed and perplexed. So better not do it. So then Shariputra, Shariputra is like the leader. He asks again, and begs again. And Buddha says, enough, enough. It would just be too shocking to the people. I wouldn't want them. They might get really disoriented and get in trouble if I teach this. And so he asks again. And then the Buddha says, well, since you've asked three times, okay, I will offer some skills.

[08:04]

This teaching, this truth, this wondrous truth, this wondrous law, it's very difficult, but I'll offer some, I'll try to find some way, some device to help you with this difficult teaching. Around that time, 5,000 people walk out of the assembly. And the Buddha kind of chastigates them and after they leave and says that it's good that they're gone, that they were kind of proud, arrogant, thinking, you know, Well, if it's difficult to understand, well, let's go someplace else where the guy teaches some stuff that's not so difficult. I've heard enough about how hard this is. Let's go someplace else. Or, you know, he's just going to say the same thing again anyway. He said before, which wasn't much anyway, so let's get out of here.

[09:08]

So they left. And the Buddha kind of says, good that they're gone. Then the Buddha says, it's good that you stayed. Very good that you stayed. And you will all become Buddhas. So if you excuse me for saying so, it's good that you stayed. Even though you didn't hear about what the wonder's truth was, you still stayed just like the people in the sutra. So you will become Buddha according to the sutra. You didn't hear what the sutra was teaching. You didn't hear the truth that the sutra is named after. But you did stay just like the people in the sutra. You people should know you will become Buddhas. Did I mention here last week about the Buddha, I mean about Dogen, writing a passage on a pillar?

[10:25]

Is that right? Yeah. So, but did I mention to you that the Jodo Shinshu headquarters or institute over on Duran, had this big altar that they wanted to find a home for. Did I tell you about that? So part of what I've been doing coming to Berkeley is I've been coming over in a truck and carrying a huge altar from Berkeley back to this place called No Abode Hermitage, which is named as the Lotus Sutra Hermitage. So I made several trips to bring this huge old altar over there to put it in this hermitage, partly as a place to honor and revere the Lotus Sutra. It's a secret that it's been renamed as the Lotus Sutra Hermitage. It was a secret.

[11:29]

And so the shrine, the altar will be assembled in a place where people can come and pay homage to the lotus flower of the true Dharma. Even though the Buddha doesn't tell you what it is, you can come there and become Buddha. my wife when she saw the altar it hasn't been assembled yet but when she saw it she said I don't know what got into you she says I don't know what you were thinking of when you accepted that thing it's going to take over the whole building people say well it's okay with me as long as we can still get in there And then last Monday we started a so-called, we sometimes call it a koan class and also a class on stories at Green Gulch.

[12:43]

And so part of what I'm asking people to do is when they hear the stories to think about, when they hear these old stories, to think about how the old stories are their stories or how their story is the old story. So the first story that I just happen to bring up will just happen to be the first story of the Book of Serenity, story number one. And in the story, the name of the story is The World-Honored One, the Thus Come One, Ascends the Seat. So then the case is, one day, the World-Honored One ascended the seat. and didn't say so, but one imagines that he sat in the seat. Manjushri struck the gavel, boom, and said, everyone clearly observed that Dharma, of the king of Dharma,

[14:02]

The Dharma of the King of Dharma is thus. And the Buddha got down from the seat. And it struck me this week how similar and how different that case is from the Lotus Sutra. So the Buddha just gets up in the seat and sits there, doesn't say anything. In the lower realm, the Buddha sort of gets up there and sits there and does say something, but he doesn't say what he said he's going to say. He doesn't say what people say he's going to say, but he's there with the people. He's there with them. He's not someplace else.

[15:07]

He's totally there with them. But he's not saying what the truth is. So, very similar to Lotus Sutra, I thought. In the Book of Serenity, they don't have the light coming off of them and stuff like that. But anyway, the Buddha's there. In this case, though, Manjushri, instead of saying, well, instead of being all this fancy stuff that he's doing, means, in this case, Manjushri, nobody's saying anything, it's very quiet, people are just, the assembly's there. So Manjushri, with nobody asking him, apparently, strikes a gavel and tells people to look, to clearly observe of the King of Dharma. The Buddha's there, not saying anything, and Manjushri says, clearly observe the truth of the king of truth.

[16:11]

And then he takes one more step. He says, the truth of the king of truth is thus. He kind of tells him what the Buddha wouldn't tell him. And the Buddha gets down. And then I also thought, I was also struck by in a way, a lot of Zen stories are about this, about the Dharma being shown but not directly and then people walking off in disgust or receiving it, or somebody coming and telling them it is there. There's a variety of possibilities.

[17:14]

I feel like the style, particularly the style of so-called Soto Zen is very much like the style of the Buddha's teaching in the Lotus Sutra and the style of the way the Buddha of the Book of Serenity before Manjushri says anything. The Buddha's always teaching but sometimes the way Buddha's teaching is very hard to understand. The actual truth that he's teaching is very hard to understand. So then some people help you by saying, Observe it. And then they say it's thus. But what does thus mean? That maybe doesn't help that much. Where's the thus? So a story I've told you quite a few times is one time there was this Zen teacher named Hui Nung and a monk came to see him named Huiron

[18:35]

And the Huineng says, Where are you from? And he says, I'm from Mount Sung. And Huineng says to the visiting monk, What is it that thus comes? What is thusness? What is thus come? And the monk says, to indicate it, misses the point. Manjushri indicated it, and he missed the point. But he couldn't help it. He couldn't let it just be like the Lotus Sutra and have everybody walk out, I guess. Not everybody, but some people. So he indicated it. But this monk who's being asked by the teacher, what is the Buddha or what is the coming of suchness?

[19:50]

The monk says, well, I'm not going to indicate it because I would miss it. So the teacher's not indicating it. He's just asking, what is it? The student's not indicating. He's saying, if I would indicate it, I would miss it. And the teacher, they go on a little bit, but basically the teacher says, well, I'll go on, they say. Is there no practice and enlightenment? And the monk says, I don't say there's not. Parentheses, I don't say there is either. I don't say there's not practice and enlightenment, just that it can't be defiled. by saying what it is. I'm not going to say what the Buddha is. In other words, I'm not going to say what the Buddha's teaching is. I'm not going to say what the Sangha is.

[20:52]

But I'm also not going to say there isn't a Buddha and there isn't a Dharma. And the teacher says, this undefiled way is what all Buddhas are caring for. And this undefiled way that all Buddhas are caring for is the Lotus Sutra. It's a sutra which you can indicate it, but that defiles it. And if it's not indicated, but you stay with it, you will become Buddha. If you walk off, you miss the chance. If you say what it is, you miss the chance. But if you stay with it, you will become Buddha. The Lotus Sutra doesn't tell you what the Lotus Sutra is. It just shows you. But it doesn't tell you how it's showing it to you.

[21:57]

But it does show itself to you. Every single word shows you Buddha. Without, of course, indicating that. And then another important person in our tradition, he's sort of the founder of what's called Soto Zen in China. And he met many great teachers. But some of those great teachers were like Manjushri. In the first case, they indicated, they showed it. they defiled it by showing it. But they were great famous teachers because the ones who show it are more popular. Because people they were great and they were popular but there was one kind of not very popular, not very great teacher that he also visited.

[23:13]

And he became He was like recognized by all these other teachers, but he also became recognized by this. Many people would even care about being recognized by. It's kind of a nobody. And so actually after this nobody died, somebody asked, he was doing a memorial service. He made an altar where he put this which is similar to an altar where you put the Lotus Sutra, because the teacher was the teacher who didn't teach him anything, like the Lotus Sutra is a Lotus Sutra that doesn't directly teach you anything. The teacher and the Lotus Sutra are very similar, I think. But he honored this teacher among all the much more famous teachers. And he said, how come you... instead of these other famous teachers who recognized you? And he didn't say anything against the other teachers, he just said, it's not because of the profundity... of my master's teaching that I revere him most.

[24:15]

It's because he never directly indicated. He didn't schwa pa in Chinese. He didn't directly indicate. We were together, but he didn't directly indicate. That's why I venerate him most. And so Dongshan's teacher is Junyan, and Junyan's teacher is Yaoshan. Yaoshan was good, but he was more famous. Partly because he had famous teachers. But he was in the same kind of way of And his teachers taught him this way. There's many ways to teach, but the way they taught him was he went to see them and he asked them, you know, what is the wondrous dharma? What is the supreme dharma of the Buddha? So he went to this great teacher named Shurto and he asked that.

[25:21]

And Shurto said, um... Being thus won't do. Not being thus won't do either. Being either won't do at all. How about you? And Yashan didn't understand. He said, we should go see another teacher, go see Matsu. So they went to see Matsu, who was an even more famous great master. And he went to see Matsu and he asked the same question and Matsu said, I make him raise his eyebrows and blink.

[26:24]

Sometimes I don't make him raise his eyebrows and blink. Sometimes raising the eyebrows is right. Sometimes raising the eyebrows is not right. How about you? He understood. And went back and nods and said, yeah, yeah, that's great, but you sure told your teacher. So he went back. So this is the sort of the way of teaching. You can't... It's too difficult to teach it. So they have this skillful means by which we can open to the teaching. But still, Manjushri had to do that. So there's a verse which celebrates the... which says, the unique breeze of reality... Can you see it?

[27:29]

Creation constantly working her lumen shuttle, incorporating spring into the ancient brocade. But nothing can be done about Manjushri's leaking. Manjushri's what? Manjushri's leaking. His defilement, his, you know, in studying this case, it's often mentioned by people that Manjushri is like the Judas of Zen in that story. He tells people where they can find the Buddha. Right there. The Buddha is there. The Dharma is, you see, it's right there. He tells people. and defiles the Buddha. But he couldn't help himself.

[28:35]

He had to show the people where the Buddha was so he could be in history. So there's this opportunity to to revere, to take care of, to read and recite and copy and teach and practice according to this wonderful Dharma, which doesn't tell you the sutra, which doesn't tell you what the sutra is. It lets you and me be with it and practice it and realize it, even though we can't or we're not supposed to grasp it. So I've really been inspired by you and the Buddhas and the bodhisattvas and the sutra.

[29:51]

inspired. I really don't know why, but I am. I'm happily building this big altar over there at Lotus Sutra Hermitage. And I also feel good, you know, because Zen's not supposed to be depending on any sutra, right? So to be really intimate with the Lotus Sutra is not to depend on it. To really worship it is not to depend on it. So I feel like you and I have embodied the Lotus Sutra here in Berkeley, California this spring. By coming here,

[30:53]

and hearing the Lotus Sutra and not getting anything out of it and coming anyway not to get something but to give to give to the Lotus Sutra to express devotion to the Lotus Sutra to make it alive in this world By listening to it, by revering it, that's what makes the Lotus Sutra alive. That's what embodies it in your body, in our bodies, in this world. A vehicle to realize emptiness. A vehicle to realize what can't be grasped. A vehicle that unifies all vehicles is a vehicle that cannot be grasped.

[32:03]

And that's what the Lotus Sutra is saying it is. Although it says that's what it is, it also has to make itself ungraspable in order to perform its function to unify all vehicles and to unify all paths of all beings. And we talked about one of the chapters, chapter 14, which gave instruction to bodhisattvas who want to teach this. It's been quite a while in that chapter. And that chapter is called Pleasant Practices or Pleasant Ministries. And relatively speaking, it is quite pleasant in the previous chapter, which is called exhortation to be firm or exhortation to devotion.

[33:07]

And in that chapter, what is implied is a more aggressive style It doesn't literally say it, but a lot of people interpret that that style of teaching is what's being referred to in the previous chapter. So we read chapter 14. Could you give me some water, Stephen? Chapter 13. The Bodhisattvas say, tell the Buddha not to worry. if he has to do this show called disappearing. So he's going to do that, you know, he's going to go away now. Thank you. And he's, in a couple of chapters, he's going to tell us that he hasn't really disappeared.

[34:12]

That's the chapter we just recited. But it's going to look like he disappeared to a lot of people. And it's going to look like there's a very bad and that the whole world is at risk of falling into serious ill health. It's going to look like that. Otherwise, some people won't practice. So when that difficult time comes in the future, and I disappeared, when I have to, even though I'm still here, who's going to take care of the teaching? And these bodhisattvas, we will. And also they want to know, if we do come forth and we are going to teach, then how can we teach under such difficult circumstances? So chapter 14 tells you how to teach when things are tough.

[35:14]

Chapter 13 also tells you how to teach when in a sense they're tougher. But now in chapter 13 not only is the world a tough place but everybody's being real mean to you. You're teaching the Lotus Sutra for their welfare are beating you up and reviling you for teaching it. I don't exactly understand why the people of ancient times put chapter 13 before chapter 14. It seemed like better to reverse them. Advanced usually follows. But anyway, those two chapters are there. And it's more advanced to teach the Lotus Sutra in such a way that it aggravates people. So the chapter 14 is not an aggressive style of teaching.

[36:25]

It's a very gentle style of teaching. But chapter 14 and also chapter 20 are more aggressive styles of teaching. 13 and 20. And 20 is called never disparage. Bodhisattva walks around and everybody that Bodhisattva meets, the Bodhisattva says, I don't disparage you. you will become Buddha. He says that to everybody. He reveres everybody and a lot of people get by him revering them and telling them they're going to become Buddha. In his heart he really does revere them and he really wants to tell them this good news that they will become Buddha but some people get really irritated if somebody tells them that they're going to become Buddha. and they beat him up but he still keeps revering them and he still keeps saying this.

[37:28]

Like Desmond Tutu getting beat up and being concerned that the people are beating him up. So part of what's going on in the Lotus Sutra is one style of teaching we just did which is kind of difficult to understand but it's not aggressive. Chapter 13 and Chapter 20 are talking about there's another dimension of teaching where you teach in such a way that people have a hard time with you. They don't like the way you are. And these bodhisattvas say, even when they give us a hard time for teaching, we will continue to teach. Yeah? Did you say that's a more advanced form? Well, it's from Being aggressive and difficult, meaning more confrontive? No, no, just maybe more intense, you know.

[38:33]

More intense, more, I don't know what, not so gentle maybe. Could be demanding. You could be just demanding, could be demanding of yourself. That can irritate people. You know, like if you live in a community and you don't eat very much, people can feel, you know, threatened. Or like in a koan class the other night, that she felt a strong impulse to cut off one of her fingers and make it as an offering. To you? Well, not exactly to me, but as an expression of her devotion. And so it created quite a stir in class that she might do that. One person came up and said, please do not do that. And another person came up and said, I think that's great. Not that you'd cut your finger off, but just that you'd feel that way. So this is like, you know, either she might get beat up or I might get beat up for having a class where people might cut their fingers off.

[39:39]

So the people who beat the person up who's teaching in this way, they're not advanced. But some people, when they see that kind of teaching, it's just the right thing for them. It really pushes them over the edge into the truth. But it's an advanced teaching. And so I told you the story I think last summer, and recently I told you the story of Linji's enlightenment. Linji is this very important spiritual figure in the history of the world, actually. Millions of followers come from his teaching. So he's a Chinese Zen master, the founder of the so-called Rinzai School of Zen, which you know, was the dominant form of Zen in China.

[40:43]

And he was in a monastery with a big teacher, a huge teacher. And the head monk, who was also a great, became a great teacher, said to him, how long have you been here? And he said, two or three years. He said, have you gone talk to the teacher yet? And he said, no. So we asked him a question. What should I ask him? Ask him about what the lotus flower of the Wondrous Dharma is. What's the quintessential truth of the Buddha way? So he went and asked. Wong Wong Bo hit him. Kind of aggressive teaching, I would say, for an advanced practitioner. But even he didn't get it, didn't understand. He just thought he got hit and didn't... He just didn't see the point. But Wang Do was, I think, this is not what he would do with most people.

[41:49]

So the head monk says to him, how did it go? And he said, well, he hit me. He said, oh... you should go out. So he does. And Wang Bo hits him. And he sees the head monk again. And the head monk says, well, he said, he hit me again. Oh, well, you should really go see him again. And he does. And he gets hit. And the head monk says, well, how about this time? He said, he hit me again. and I'm leaving. Right on the edge there, he's almost like those people that left the Lotus Sutra. Almost like perhaps some of you in this class. There were moments maybe when you thought, I don't get it, I'm out of here. But it doesn't look like you got that far into that because you're still here. So then the head monk said, okay, you can leave.

[42:59]

Go say goodbye. So he said, okay. And then the head monk went and told Wang Bo, he's leaving. You know, he's really a good monk. Be careful of him. Help him. And Wang Bo said, I know. He goes and says goodbye to Wang Bo. And Wang Bo says, Well, don't go too far. There's a friend of mine who lives over the hill. I think he could help you. So he goes to a nearby monastery and visits this other person and tells him the story. And the other person, when he hears the story, God, how kind Wang Bo was with you. He gave himself completely to you. He really put himself out there. You know, like, very aggressively, because that's what you needed. You know, you were this very strong monk, but he needed this intense interaction, apparently.

[44:05]

And Wang Bo put himself out there for Linji. In a way that a lot of people he should be, you know, what do you call it? What's the word? When you kick a kid out of the bar? Disbarred. What? Disbarred. He should be disbarred. He should be, you know, like my grandson said to me, you know, Matt, if a Buddhist master knew how you were teaching, they would fire you. So anyway... Sometimes when you're really teaching intensely to help people, some people really don't like it. And Linji kind of didn't like it, kind of didn't think it was really teaching. But then he saw it was, and that was his great thing.

[45:10]

Now these other people, like other stories, they were also teaching in a very difficult way. They weren't giving, they weren't indicating. That's hard, too. But there's another story. I think a number of these stories are in Being Upright. There's another story that's in Being Upright, I think, which is about a monk, an arrogant monk, who went to see and he came to see Hakuen. And his teacher sent a letter with him which said, this guy's got a problem, so be careful of him. Take care of him, but he's really arrogant. He thinks he understands perfectly and I can't teach him anything anymore. So I sent him to you. And Hakowin was real tough on him and it broke the guy. He went insane because of the way Hakowin yelled at him.

[46:14]

He went insane and stayed that way for years. And later I made two mistakes in my life. and that was one of them. The way I treated him was not appropriate. I pushed too hard. So it's a dangerous path sometimes to do the teaching that a person needs, so we have to be very careful. At advanced levels you can really hurt people. But sometimes at advanced levels people need to be pushed kind of hard because they're quite stable and nothing disturbs them, so they can stay in their position you know, very calmly and you can push them around and they can adapt to some subtle level they're holding. So sometimes something really intense needs to be offered to them in order to get them to shift a little bit. But that's also very difficult to offer such intense teachings. So the Lotus Sutra has chapter thirteen in it and chapter

[47:16]

to exemplify tense, high-energy kind of teaching, like where you would walk in the street and say that to people, where you would be considered a fanatic, right? If you said to everybody, I don't disparage you, you will become Buddha. That's a very advanced person and a very advanced practice. So that's part of the mix of the Lotus Sutra is to show this kind of, this variety. And we can talk about this more later, but I just wanted to kind of tell you that other side of the story in terms of teaching styles that the sutra offers. So you see a number of different teaching styles. You see the style of the Buddha, and you see the style for bodhisattvas, which are somewhat different. Does that make sense to you now? Yes?

[48:27]

About Manjushri. About Manjushri, yes. He helped himself, and you said he had to say it, because why? He felt... I guess he felt, you know, the Buddha was sitting there all along. But the Buddha was sitting there, and maybe he felt like... They're not... He couldn't stand it. They didn't understand what he was teaching. He felt like he had to draw their attention to something. They're sitting there saying, well, I wonder when he's going to start teaching. Or maybe they're asleep. I don't know. But in a way, he shouldn't have done it. He should have let the people have this. He just sits up there quietly and they don't think he's giving them anything, even though he did make the effort to get up on that seat.

[49:32]

It's kind of like not being able to just trust God. Yeah. And I was just reading another fascicle I was teaching by Dogen called Buddha Nature. And it's a chapter where he's dealing with this issue of Buddha nature, which in the Lotus Sutra, the word Buddha nature doesn't appear. People think that what the Buddha nature in the Lotus Sutra is, is just the emptiness of the Lotus Sutra, is the Buddha nature. The emptiness of the way the Lotus Sutra teaches and the emptiness which the Lotus Sutra recommends bodhisattvas meditate on. Chapter 14, part of the Bodhisattva's place of practice, place of action and place of intimacy is to meditate on emptiness, to meditate on Buddha nature.

[50:38]

So, in this chapter, Dogen says, you know, that many people teach all living beings have the Buddha nature. But a higher teaching, in a way, is all living beings are without Buddha nature. And you can hear that two ways. All beings are without Buddha nature or all beings, what they are, is without Buddha nature. That's what they are. And then he says, and he likes that all beings are without Buddha nature. What we really are is we are. That's what we are. That's our nature. But then he says, to say that all beings are Buddha nature or have Buddha nature slanders Buddha nature. And to say that all beings are without Buddha nature slanders Buddha nature. But you must say that they have Buddha nature and that they are without Buddha nature.

[51:45]

You must say that. You don't have to say that. Is the reason that the month got hit when he asked about the Bodhisattva is that because he was defiling the truth by wanting it to be told to him? I don't... I'm not sure. I think his problem was that he thought he was fine. And he was kind of fine. He was a wonderful monk. But he thought he didn't need to go talk to the teacher. So the head monk said to him, have you gone to see him? No, I don't need to see him, I'm fine. He thought he was fine. I think he was, yeah, he was... He couldn't tell that...

[52:47]

that he had some limited idea of what the truth was. He was doing quite well, but he had some limited ideas. So when he went to see... And he was fed that question. So he went to see the teacher. The teacher gave him something to find out if he was holding any place. And he was balanced enough to have his place of holding indicated. But he didn't see that as kindness. He didn't see it as something to help him. How did he have his place of holding the indicator? Well, when the teacher slapped him, he didn't think it was, he thought, you know, it was just a slap. He didn't feel like, how kind of you to slap me. You got, you know, you got me right where I was holding in that one. But later, when he went to see the other teacher, he could see that there was really kindness.

[53:50]

And then his whole style of teaching was that way of teaching. He was very successful, had lots of great students. Because that's what worked for him, so he did that with his students. But still, at the beginning of his record, at the beginning of his teaching record, he says, if I were to accord strictly with the Buddha, I wouldn't be able to open my mouth. But if I don't, many of you won't be able to get a foothold. So he didn't say anything. He just says, if anybody wants to interact with me, come on. interacted with them. He still couldn't, he still didn't say what it was, but he interacted with people. And in the interaction, somehow, the skillful interaction, they could open to this thing which is very difficult to understand.

[54:58]

But for non-Buddhists to understand, you sort of have to like do it through interaction, through some kind of device of interaction, like go to a class where you don't get anything. That's a device. To go to a class where you don't get anything, that's not a device. That's just your usual way of trying to get something. So somehow the skillful means is like to offer enough to have people come and not get anything and then somehow encourage them to come back. And when they've done that enough, give them something they really don't think is good at all. But it's difficult to give people things that they don't think are good at all. It's very difficult. Like in that class the other night, it was very difficult when she said, I really didn't want her to cut her finger off, but I also didn't want to tell her not to cut her finger off.

[56:06]

I just wanted to know how. Oh, she also said, but I'm afraid if I cut my finger off that I'll become very arrogant and think I'm better than other people. So then I said, but I don't think my job is to tell people what to do. And some people want me to tell people what to do. If they say they're going to cut their finger off, they say, you should tell them not to cut their finger off. But fortunately, other people in the class tell them not to cut their finger off. And I can ask them, you're telling me now the story of the ancestors. Show me that. I think that's my job, is to get people to look at what their story is, not to tell them to change their story. But people kind of want me to tell them to change their story. If they say they're stupid, they want me to tell them that they're smart. If they say they're smart, they want me to tell them that they're stupid, or at least they're not smart. They have stories about what I should be doing, too. And my story is I should be helping us look at our stories.

[57:16]

And I hope we have a story. Are you implying that we feel like we got something out of the class, but somehow we failed? No, I'm not implying that. No, I'm not. In the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha didn't give them the truth, but they were very, very happy at the prospect well, they're very, very happy just to see the Buddha. And, you know, I myself, to see my teacher, I didn't get anything from him, but I was just very happy to be with him. And when he went away, I wasn't exactly happy that he went away, but I was kind of happy that he went away because I knew that he had to go away for me to grow up. So, I was just kind of happy about the whole thing, even though I didn't... But if you think you got something, that's okay.

[58:28]

That's your story. But according to Lotus Sutra, you're going to become Buddha because you came to this class. And you listened to the Lotus Sutra not tell you what the truth was, didn't you? Now, I told you it was emptiness, but I didn't tell you what emptiness was, did I? I mean, I told you what it was, but I didn't really tell you what it was. Did I? But even if I did, nothing can be done about my leaking. If you force me, I will indicate something. But you haven't been pushing me too hard, thank you. You've allowed me.

[59:35]

What did you say? You used several times the word become. Yeah. And that has several implications. Time and become something that you are. Yeah, become what you are. So become what you are. But you used the word becomes, like time and... Yeah, time. Part of the Bodhisattva path, which we had the class last summer, class on vows, making vows, which I also talked about in the koan class here last summer, making vows means to solemnly promise. You're getting into time, because you're saying, my thoughts right now are thinking of committing myself to a course of practice, to a way of life. And I'm willing to live in the world of time.

[60:37]

And I'm willing to... I'm willing to commit in the future. In the present, I'm willing to commit to the future. And that's another danger. What probably brought up this thing about cutting the finger off. Because when you promise and when you commit, part of what you need to do is you need to have enough development to be able to deal with time and future. You also need to be aware that there's a difference between yourself and others. And you need to be aware also that whatever commitment you make there's conflicting intentions. Whatever vow you have, there's conflicting intentions, at least one. And that means that it's not necessarily going to be possible for you to fulfill whatever your vow is without .

[61:39]

And the last point about this is that when you make a vow, when you solemnly promise, you need to do it in the presence of someone who you respect, like the Buddha or Bodhisattva or a teacher, or in the presence of something abstract like your own honest honor, your own authenticity. But then another way, which they used to do more, is or that there will be some punishment if you don't fulfill your commitment. That led to the person saying, well, I'll cut my finger. So that's a dimension of time is part of this becoming Buddha thing. Because in the realm where there's no time, in some sense we don't have a problem with this Buddha thing.

[62:46]

But bring our Buddha realization into the world of time, into the world of birth and death, okay? Like we were talking about last week. the way things really are, unborn. But with perverted thinking, we tip them upside down and make them born. So in the world where things are born is the world where Buddhas appear and disappear. That's the world of time. And in that world, I make vows. In the world of emptiness, you don't have to make a vow. But in order to realize the truth in this world, we need to deal with time. Yes. So I heard you say earlier that there are teachings of the Buddha, teachings of Bodhisattva. Would they be characterized by what you just described, that Bodhisattva teachings are bound in this time phenomenon versus

[63:51]

the Buddha's not being? I'm wondering, therefore, I was just thinking, the Bodhisattva teachings refute defilement in that sense. The Buddha doesn't teach in a way that you see defilement of what he's holding true. Yeah, I think the Bodhisattvas can be more defiled than the Buddhas. And Bodhisattvas are sentient beings, like the rest of us, and they are ...be reborn again and again. Whereas Buddhas, you know, it's just a show on the part of the Buddha. They're not really being reborn. They don't have to... They don't have to do this kind of upside-down perverted thing in order to get born. They appear... So they're more perfect and more complete. So the bodhisattvas, like in the Lotus Sutra, the bodhisattva teachings, is it like in a Shakespeare play where you have the downplay, where you have the lower characters act out the higher themes in a ling-way?

[65:02]

I'll think about that. But I think it's more that the Buddha is eternal and only appears in this way, to come and go. Whereas bodhisattvas are like other sentient beings. They're still going through birth and death. The Buddha doesn't really go through birth and death. The eternal Buddha just appears to go through birth and death. So there's a difference there. We can relate more to bodhisattva in that sense. Exactly. We can relate to Manjushri. Yeah. And their path is our path. whereas the Buddha's path isn't exactly our path. The Bodhisattva path is the way we become Buddha. But the Buddha isn't like a person, really, but the Buddha can be a person. Bodhisattvas are persons, human persons or some other kind of person, whereas Buddha is really our eternal, all-pervasive, you know, limitless...

[66:06]

being. And bodhisattvas are limited. They show us how to be limited in a playful, relaxed, liberating way. The Buddhas don't really show us how to be limited in that one special way where they do this thing of being born and so on. Basically that's not their basic function. Their basic function is they're with us all the time according to this sutra. So there's a difference. And I think our lives will change, I think our lives will change in probably a beneficial way if we arrange our living space, sometimes called our home, that there's a place in the home for venerating the Lotus Sutra, for venerating the Buddha.

[67:30]

But in particular, venerating the Lotus Sutra also makes it a place where you can actually read the Lotus Sutra, write the Lotus Sutra, enchant the Lotus Sutra, a place where you can embody it. If you make a place to embody it and you embody it, that will transform your whole house, your whole neighborhood. It will become a quiet place. So I'm kind of encouraging you to think of ways that you can make a place for the Lotus Sutra and watch and see how that affects your whole life, how your body and your house and your family are benefited by making a place to honor, copy, and so on this scripture. Having a statue of a Buddha is fine too. And again, that could be a place where you also make Buddhas. into ceremonies, but all these kinds of things are ways to embody, embody it.

[68:38]

Be gentle about it. Don't be nasty and overbearing about this. If you can't figure out how to set up a place for the Lotus Sutra in your house, be gentle about that. Don't get down on yourself for not having a Lotus Sutra place in your house next Tuesday. Consider that, that how your life would change if you had a place to read, recite, make copies, you know, and place the Lotus Sutra and think about it and study it and so on. How would that change your life and would that be beneficial to have one place become a place you took care of really carefully? Probably it would. Maybe not, maybe, you know, some of you are real, I don't know what the word is, but maybe you'd say, well, I'm going to put the lotus, the lotus place is going to be in the garbage pile or something. Okay. Creative. Does that make sense?

[69:47]

No? Tracy? You look quizzical. I don't know if there are other things I can say about that. I don't know if that makes sense. What I mean by makes sense is it makes sense that if you made a place like this it would change your house. I can imagine that. Especially if you get one of those big shrines. And, you know, I just want to mention I didn't go looking for this shrine. It was offered to me. And if somebody else got it, that would have been okay with me. But it was calling off their home, like, you know, an animal at the Animal Rescue League or something.

[70:54]

And I said I'd take it, and nobody else said they wanted it. It's in my life. And in yours, too, now. It's funny how this stuff happens. I hope you don't mind that it's in your life, too. Because it's in my life. Yes? Oh, thank you. You were pretending? Thank you for letting me know. Well, thank you for telling us that you were pretending that you understood that for a while.

[71:55]

And you got over that, right? Yes. So now you're in. What are you talking about? You feel bad about it? Oh, I feel good about it. So I hope our good health continues so we can keep talking about what devil I'm talking about. I think it's, yeah, I think this is a wonderful thing for us to talk about for the next period of time into the future. And I'm really glad you're not pretending to understand. It's already been beneficial that you would understand and let me know that you were pretending. That's already helped this story. This is a good story. The story of Reb not getting anything out of his relationship with Suzuki Roshi. Would you make any difference if you do that with the Heart Sutra, for example, versus the Lotus Sutra?

[73:06]

If you do it with the Heart Sutra, I would think that also will change your house. If you do it with a Buddha statue, if you do it with the Heart Sutra, watch how it changes your house if you make a place, you know. Well, like in my house, I actually have, which I will give to somebody if they want me to give it to them. I have a beautiful piece of paper. Unfortunately, I bent it recently, but it could be ironed. It was a kind of cardstock paper of the sutra card that we used at the... It was in Japantown. We had these sutra cards and it has heart sutra with Chinese characters and then Romanized pronunciation and then English translation on these card things. And I have one of those old cards and it's in my bedroom and it's on top of a big pile of... just lying there. And it's the Heart Sutra. But, you know, the way I put it there, I keep putting it there carefully.

[74:10]

And sometimes it gets moved around a little bit, and I straighten it. And I keep the whole area around it clean, because it's such a lovely little thing, and it's just sitting up there. And I'll give it to you. I've been looking for somebody to give it to. Maybe I could give it to Michelle, if you want. Do you want, Michelle? Okay, I'll give it to you. And then you can take care of it and keep straightening it and making sure it's clean in the area around it. And your house, your house is okay with Linda if he brings that in. The whole world starts to move around things like that that we value. But it's different from like if you had a diamond ring, you might like build a safe around it or something. Which might not be very nice, but Maybe you don't try to protect it from everybody, you want to share it with people, and you want to show people that you have it there, and they can look at it too, and you keep it in a place where they can come and read it, and recite it with you, and you have a nice place to do that with them.

[75:15]

So you have a little temple there where you have your Heart Sutra. Things happen. And it's, like I say, it's kind of aesthetically pleasing, it's not a tacky kind of thing. I just wanted to say I kind of did that without thinking about it when I moved to my new space. You set up an altar to chant the Heart Sutra? I just wanted that space. Yeah. And what happened was I hadn't expected anything. It's really wonderful to go home to, but my roommate, because I have a roommate, I didn't realize I started giving tours of my room. It's not that big, but... And so people were like, But it's just a good feeling and I hadn't expected anything like that. I just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very good not to expect anything. So I'm not saying you should expect something when you set the altar up. I'm just saying set it up and see what happens. I don't know how it's going to change your life to bring the Lotus Sutra into your house.

[76:19]

It will and I'd be interested to see how it does if you make a place for it. Like this thing I chanted, this thing that Dogen wrote, where you have the Lotus Sutra, the place you recite the Lotus Sutra, the place you put the Lotus Sutra down, that becomes the place where the Buddha is enlightened, that becomes the place where the Buddha practices, that becomes the place where the Buddha enters Parinirvana. So put the Lotus in your house and see what happens. See if it becomes the place where Buddha is practicing. I don't know what will happen if you put it there, but it might transform your world. So you can see. But don't expect anything. See what's going on. If you expect, oh, this is going to really like... Then you might miss what really happens. Something will happen. I don't know what it will be. And if you don't do that, something will happen too, and I don't know what that will be either. But I just thought I'd bring this up.

[77:24]

And I'd be happy to hear more stories about what happens to the Lotus Sutra. And Donald looks like we're running over time. It's time to stop. And if you would like to keep these, you may. If you don't want to keep them, just give them back. Thanks. Sorry I didn't get to talk with you today. It's okay. You were in my thoughts all day.

[78:04]

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