just this is it. So there's only three characters, but it's often translated with four words. Maybe the translators feel like, since this is a response to the question, how to describe your teaching, maybe they think they should say, just this is the teaching. But anyway, if I look at the characters, I see three. Just this is. What you're teaching, just this is. And when, and then, After the teacher, Yunyun, finished saying that, the student, it says, sort of went into a deep thought.

[01:11]

By the way, it also says in the story that when the student asked how to describe the teaching, the teacher was quiet for a while. student asked the question the teacher was quiet then the teacher spoke and then the student was quiet and then the teacher said now you have inherited this great matter this great matter of just this is you must be thorough going and then Dung Shan left and walked a long time and then came to the stream saw his reflection and understood just this is. And then when Dung Chan was

[02:31]

teaching an assembly. He was doing a memorial service for his teacher, Cloud Clift. And before, I guess, before or after that ceremony, he told the story of his last face-to-face meeting with his teacher. And one of the monks came forward and said, when Yuen Yuen said, thus justice is, did you understand at that time? And Dung Shan said, at that time, I nearly misunderstood. And the monk said, did Yuen Yuen himself understand the meaning?

[03:41]

And Dung Shan said to the monk, if he didn't, Actually, I'll change the question. Did Yunyan himself know the meaning? And Dengshan said, if he didn't know it, how could he say that? And if he did know it, how would he be willing to say that? if he didn't know how could he say it if he did know how would he be willing to say it

[07:24]

If he didn't know, how could he give up, how could he let go of the provisional and enter the real? If he did know, how could he give up the real and enter the provisional? There's an expression, bodhi manda or bodhi mandala.

[10:00]

Bodhi, awakening, mandala, like a circle or a space. So bodhi manda means a space or a place for bodhi. You may have heard the expression dojo, which means awakening place. So this zendo sometimes could be called a zen dojo. a place for awakening. And each seat in the zendo can also be called a dojo, a place for awakening.

[11:04]

And the character for awakening also means the path. So it's a place for the path and awakening, the path of awakening, And the word path also could be understood as practice, the place of practice awakening. Each seat, every place in this room where we sit is a place for awakening. So the ancestors say that when we sit together at our place, we can give birth to innumerable Buddhas, innumerable awakenings.

[12:09]

When we sit together supporting each other to sit and being supported by each other to sit, because of that relationship we can realize Buddha. Buddhas can be born. And this birth of Buddhas is really no birth. This place where Buddhas are born, this place where Buddhas are born, just this is. our relationship realizes just this is.

[13:14]

I heard a story about a monk who lived in a temple with his teacher in Japan. And his teacher sent him to the big temple named Eheiji. And before the monk left his teacher, the teacher said, when you get to Eheji, you may be asked to ring the big bell. Like the one we have outside here. We call this a bone show. which bone means is a Chinese way of saying Brahma.

[14:46]

Brahma's a monarch of the gods in Indian pantheism. So that bell's called a Brahma bell, the monarch bell, the boss bell of the temple. you may be offered the opportunity to ring that big bell. And the way that they'll teach you will be that you bow, you do a standing bow to the bell, then you pull back the big log and hit it, strike it, and again before you strike it again, you do a bow. And the bow is actually, we don't do that here, but the bow is a full prostration.

[15:49]

And then get up and ring the bell. And the teacher said, every time you prostrate before the bell and strike it, the dharma wheel will the unsurpassed Dharma wheel turns a little bit. And so the young priest went to Eheji and he did get a chance to ring the bell. And he followed the instruction of his teacher with the understanding that when he bowed and struck the bell, the Dharma wheel, the unsurpassable Buddha Dharma wheel, turned a little bit. And when he rang the bell, the abbot of the temple heard it and was deeply turned.

[17:04]

and asked who that monk was who knew how to turn the Dharma wheel by ringing the bell. Every moment that we sit here together we turn the Dharma wheel a little bit. And just like every moment of sitting, innumerable Buddhas are born at our sitting place. And No birth is the birth that is the birth of Buddha.

[18:18]

And no turning is the turning of the Dharma wheel. this realm of moment by moment giving birth to innumerable Buddhas, the birth of whom is no birth, this realm is beyond words, is beyond these words. These words do not reach the realm where we are right now giving birth to Buddhas.

[19:23]

But the place we are is the place where Buddhas are born. Buddhas cannot be born somewhere other than where we are. Poor Buddhas. They're stuck with us even though they're free. They're stuck with us because they want to practice with us. And they want to practice with us because they're born with us. But this realm does not reach these words. However, that realm is not without words. that realm can talk. And it can talk using our talk. My talk does not reach that realm, but that realm can use my talk to speak.

[20:32]

And it does. One way the realm of turning the Dharma wheel, one way it can talk is it can say, it can say, each moment of sitting turns the Dharma wheel a little bit. It can say that. Those words don't reach it, but it can speak those words. And it does. It can also say, What can it say? The realm beyond words can also say, I don't want to give birth to any Buddhas, it's too much trouble. It can say that, and you heard it. It can say, I think this is the fifth day of Sashin.

[21:37]

It can say, is it Friday? It can use anything to speak. It doesn't hold on to itself. It lets go of itself and enters into daily life. So even though the ancestor knows, the ancestor can talk. And even if the ancestor doesn't know, or even if the student doesn't know, the student can talk. The conversation between the priest and his student realized the Buddhadharma.

[22:55]

The conversation between the student and the bell and the abbot realized Buddhadharma. The conversation between Yuen Yen, Clark Cliff, and Dung Shan realized the Buddhadharma. our conversations are realizing Buddhadharma. There's no other way to realize it. Would it be all right if I told people the story about the history of the sound recording?

[24:12]

Well, some of the talks given during this session did not record very well with the recording equipment. So that's one of the reasons I am repeating myself. Or maybe that's one of the reasons I'm saying the same thing again. And also I thought what I'm saying is so simple it's hard to stand how simple it is. Do you think it's simple? Got some yeses and some nos. Is that simple?

[25:15]

Or even if it's simple, it's still questionable. But again, to me it seems simple when I say there's no other place to make innumerable Buddhas than here, than sitting here. That seems simple to me. But if it seems complicated to you, that seems simple to me too. Everything seems simple and it's hard to take how simple it seems. The human mind sometimes wants something a little bit more entertaining than the same thing over and over. Just this is, just this is, just this is the place, the way. If you'd like to question me or the situation, you're welcome to come.

[26:49]

You can just speak. Thank you. You're welcome. I had asked a question about the recording of the Dharma talks because something I heard yesterday in the talk, I later questioned if I heard it correctly. And so maybe I'll just ask you, it wasn't part of your talk, but your song. Yes, it was a song. The song was part of my talk. My talks are songs. There was a line about quarreling. Yes. Could you repeat it? I think it goes... Can I do the lead-up to it? Sure, you can say... It goes... How does it go?

[28:28]

It's like... I think it goes... Through all kinds of weather, what if the sky should fall? Just as long as we're together... Let's be compassionate to all. And then when they've finished all their quarreling and departed, we'll be the same as we started. So it's talking about some people finishing their quarrels and going away, and then we just continue. And we're just right where we started. I sometimes hear Dharma talks and I've like, sometimes I've even, I've like thought the ones where I really get moved by

[29:31]

I feel implicated. Do you know what I mean? Like sometimes I hear a talk and I said, oh, I would feel that's really speech to me because I just needed to hear that. And yesterday I thought you said when all those who quarrel have departed, we'll be back where we started, just singing our song. And I... Slightly different, yeah. And I thought, I wondered, like, I'm having trouble with quarreling. And so I responded by saying when, like, it just sounded like, when the quarrel, when all those who quarrel are gone, then we'll sing our song. But, you know, quarreling is going to I just feel like I don't know how to deal with the fact that I feel querulous and that it feels like I'm supposed to go away.

[30:46]

So one way to understand the song And again, we don't know what the author, we don't have the author here to question. But anyway, the author did say something like, I think it's when they've finished all their quarrels or when all their quarrels are done and they've departed, something like that. So it could be understood that after the people who have been quarreling have departed, we'll be back where we started. But it doesn't mean necessarily that the ones who have departed won't be back where we started. they also will be, when they're finished quarreling and have departed, they'll be back where they started, too.

[31:52]

Where did they start? Well, they were traveling along, singing their song side by side. So when they're done quarreling and they've departed, then they'll be back where they started, and so will we. everybody will, you know, we return to where we're together, practicing together. But, you know, sometimes the sky falls, and then some people might quarrel with that. But the story says, even if the sky falls, if we stay together, we can practice compassion with that. But anybody who is quarreling with that, after they're done, we'll all be back together where we started. That's one other interpretation of that. So how do we... I guess we need to finish our quarrels.

[32:58]

But how do we finish our quarrels? By questioning them, by having a conversation with them. If we don't converse with our quarrels, they won't be finished. But after we have this conversation, this quarrel-less conversation, and then we're done, and then we depart, we don't get excluded for being quarrel-less. The quarrels are calling for compassion. So another thing I said, which may or may not have been recorded, was every phenomena is calling for compassion, including quarreling is calling for compassion. And I just feel like if we can't learn how to have differences of opinion

[34:05]

I don't know, I'm glad to hear that we're not going to exclude quarrels, but that we'll have to find a way to welcome disputes, what do you call it? If you call it dispute, you can call it dispute and the practice, the dispute is calling for compassion. So we have the responsibility to welcome dispute. The bodhisattva has the responsibility. The bodhisattva is being called to welcome dispute, if dispute comes. The bodhisattva is being called to welcome fear, to welcome anger, to welcome quarrels, to welcome affection, to welcome praise, to welcome insult, to welcome respect.

[35:28]

to welcome disrespect. That's the conversation. And we're in the process of learning that way, that bodhisattva way. And after the quarreling's over, we're right back where we started. Could you please give a synonym for... Dispute? Argument? Kind of like... Usually quarrel means kind of like... Rather than... It's a little bit kind of... Complaining. It could be complaining, disagreement, but kind of... Pardon? Arguing. Arguing. But, you know, maybe losing track with, maybe not being in touch with, being somewhat distracted maybe from compassion.

[36:38]

Even though the quarreling is asking for compassion, when we're quarreling sometimes we don't realize that our quarrel is a request for compassion. But it is, I'm saying. Thank you. Thank you. May I have that, please? What a mess.

[37:40]

I know. May I? Please. I need all the help I can get. You need a lot of help. Oh my God, Roberta. Thank you for not hiding this from me. This is why I'm your student. Yeah, who gave this to you? innumerable beings, correct. Yeah, also innumerable beings messed up.

[38:42]

Yes, that's true. That's why I'm folding this up. Because I'm responsible for this mess. And I'm responsible for you. And you're responsible for me, it's true. Is there anything else you want to discuss? You know, probably there shouldn't be, but because I'm so greedy, I'm going to ask you a question. Okay. Is this a good way to do it? It's excellent. She said, did you hear me say, is there anything else? And she said, probably there shouldn't be, but I'm greedy, so can I ask a question? And then she showed me her posture and she said, is this a good way to ask? And I said, excellent. Excellent. And if you speak up, maybe Tim can hear you. Let's trust it.

[39:45]

Ready? I've heard that... Can you hear it? I've heard that... Not to say anything is not enough, and to say something might be off the mark. What are you willing to say to me? Thank you. Tenshin Roshi, you shared a story of the ancestors, the transmission story between Dayakata and Mishraka.

[41:44]

And as I remember, Mishraka was a very bright, kind of witty person, and he was renowned for debating. He was renowned for debating. And he asked his teacher, Dayakata, if he would be willing to debate the truth with him. And as I remember, you mentioned, you told the transmission story as Dayakata's refusal or, yeah, refusal on the basis that the truth is not to be debated. And I took that as, I understood that as the truth is self-evident or reality is sort of such

[42:49]

During your talk you mentioned yin-yang's teaching as just this is and the principle of the Buddha mandala that we all are. And I wonder if I'm not mistaken to think that at the deepest level we all share the same heart, that we all share the that we're all like roots of bamboo and that we share the same roots. And that seems right to me, but I guess I wonder if you would agree with that.

[44:15]

Can I say something else? I guess I left something out, which was the thought that the simplest things are the most profound. And I feel like in the meeting the simplest things, as two beings are meeting, in the simplest encounter, if that can be the most profound encounter and... Tim, can you see what I'm doing? Okay.

[45:36]

So, did you hear what he said about simple? Maybe simple. He thought maybe the most profound was simple. Did you hear that, Tim? Did everybody hear that Edward said that he had the thought that maybe the most profound is simple? Did you hear that? Okay. The simple is most profound. Oh, no, he said, the simple is most profound. That's what Edward said. Okay? All right? So let's start over, Edward. Forget about everything you said, and now you're coming to see me. Okay? Ready? Mm-hmm. Okay. I have a question about perception.

[47:15]

So I've been sitting over there and... Could you wait a second, please? Tim, would you mind coming up here? Would you stand here, please? You can have this. Right from there. Over here. Stand here. Okay? Yes, go ahead. I have a question about perception. Can you hear it? I heard it easy. A question about perception. Sitting over there, and on Monday, when you gave your first talk. Do you want a profound interaction now? Do you want a profound interaction? Of course. Okay. And I think ... I don't get to ask my question.

[48:24]

You don't get to ask your question? Don't I get to ask my question? Yeah, you do. Okay. But you just had a profound interaction. I did. Were you there for it? I'm shaking all over. But you want something more than a profound interaction, right? I do. Yeah, okay, so let's move on. Forget about that. We're done with the profound. Let's have some superficial. We'll see. Here we go. So I think that's Avalokiteshvara. Well, you think it is? I don't. I think it's Tara. Well, okay. Well, okay. Tara. Tara Buddha. Right. Okay, Tara. Yeah, okay, Tara. Both and. Can it be both and? Well, you could say that if you want to, but it's actually, we put another statue on the back of the altar there. That's Avalokiteshvara. Okay. But you can say Avalokiteshvara takes the form of Tara and?

[49:30]

And? And? And? Me. Yes. So that's Avalokiteshvara and you're Avalokiteshvara. This is getting more complicated. And so is he. Avalokiteshvara. And you were giving your talk about... Everything is transmitted in relation. Yes. And I saw Tara, and it looked, this is perception, it looked as if she had turned towards you. And I thought, oh, somebody turned her towards you. And I could sense that you were listening to her, but she was listening to you. Yeah. And it was really incredible. Was it incredible or credible?

[50:31]

Do you believe it? Well, what was incredible was that she turned. You couldn't believe that? I did believe it, but I thought somebody had turned her. Somebody did turn her. You turned her. You turned her. You turned her. That's good work. I did. Because yesterday I thought, okay, I'm going to sit here, I'm going to watch Kristen to see when she turns Tara. And she didn't. So I thought, oh, my God. And then I looked again, and she was turned. Wow. So, I thought perception was primarily created out of the conditioned self. But now I realize it's also the precious mirror.

[51:36]

It's a precious mirror. Precious mirror. She realizes that perception is the or a precious mirror. Yeah, it's a precious mirror. I guess I answered my own question. Good work. Is there anything you want to say since you're here? May our intention live equally.

[52:23]

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