True practice of the true mind, the faith of the true body. Is the sound okay now? Can you hear me all right? As a conscious being I have a story in my mind and my story is I wish to tell you my story. And the story is that my consciousness or this consciousness and I think your consciousness arises with

[01:13]

the capacity and the function of mental activity which creates a story of our life together, of our life of practice. And we are, yeah, and this story tends, is an enclosed system, cognitive system. And usually the story is a story which goes something like, there's a universe, yes there is, plus something. That's the story most people have in their mind. There's a universe and there's something, there's one more thing besides the universe. And it, gosh, it happens to be me.

[02:21]

It isn't the universe plus other people. They're included in it. But I'm in addition to it. Perhaps sitting on top of the world, perhaps in the bottom of the world. But anyway, it's me in the world. And I'll do my best dealing with it. And I will go forward and practice the Buddha Dharma. So this story is a delusion. Or it's a story about a story that's delusion. That I practice with the world. That I Or that I don't practice with the world. That I'm trying to be helpful or right now I'm not so sure I want to be helpful. Whatever, anyway, it's me and the other.

[03:29]

And that I can act on my own in relationship to the other. This is one definition or one picture, one story of delusion. And some people who hear about this or even haven't heard about it discover that this is actually how they see things, how they think about the world. This is how they think about the world. And this way of thinking about the world, this thinking, is karma. Karma is thinking. Karma is the story you tell moment by moment. So we are karmic beings And most of us have a story of something like this. And again, some people discover that, yeah, I have that story. As a matter of fact, I have that story all the time. It's all I have. And that story is a story which always includes greed, hate, and delusion. Of course, it includes delusion because it is delusion.

[04:35]

It's nothing really but delusion. And it involves greed and hate. Not always, but sort of. And there's a way of practicing in the midst of this delusion, which involves Part of it involves being aware that this is the way we see things and maybe even hearing the teaching that this is a deluded view of my life. So there's an observation of this karmic pattern and there's a listening to the teaching that this karmic pattern is delusion. And this observation of it then further is taught that the observation is a gracious observation.

[05:41]

As in, gracias. Muchas gracias. As in, welcome. Welcome, delusion. I'm going to work with you. I'm going to practice with you. I'm going to open to you. I'm going to open to my own deluded delusion. view of the world. I'm going to open to my delusion and I'm going to be gracious with it. I'm going to be upright with it. I'm going to be gentle with it. I'm going to be honest about it. It's delusion. And I'm going to be peaceful and harmonious with it. I'm going to practice wholeheartedly in the midst of delusion. I got delusion, you got delusion, everybody's got delusion, and we're going to practice wholeheartedly with it. And when we practice wholeheartedly in the midst of delusion, the self, especially the eight-priori self,

[07:01]

body and mind and the self drop away. And when they drop away, the delusion drops away. And then another story appears, actually, but it's not a story, it's not a story. And a revelation comes and we see that everything that's coming, all the things we used to practice bring ourselves to practice towards or practice upon, all these things come forward and realize us. Matter of fact, everything that happens comes and teaches us and realizes us. And that's called enlightenment. And then we practice wholeheartedly with that, too. And then that drops away. And then probably another story will appear because our mind is active.

[08:23]

And it might be one of those deluded stories again. And again we practice wholeheartedly with that and it drops away. And we turn from that story to the reality of enlightenment. We turn from I'm doing it to it's realizing me. I'm practicing her till she's practicing me. We turn and you turn on the self. The self is already here. Isn't it relating? That drops away. The self is already here relating to the world, that drops away, and the world appears and confirms the self. Self is still there, just that in one case it's born of all things, in the other case it's before all things and acting upon all things and separate from all things. One is painful delusion, the other is a big relief.

[09:26]

But again, we keep practicing in the relief. which allows us to welcome more delusion. And again, practice wholeheartedly with the delusion. And part of being wholehearted is this meditative attitude in the midst of delusion. Gentle, harmonious, honest and upright, but the other part of it is that we open to all beings, all beings, whatever they might be, and let our care for them flow freely to them, and let their care for us flow freely to us. So part of wholeheartedness is that we also get over the idea of practicing by our own power.

[10:33]

But practicing by our own power again is a delusion. So by opening gradually or suddenly opening up to all the support that's coming to us is also part of getting over the delusion that you're practicing on your own, that you're practicing on the world. But another part of what I wanted to talk to you about, which I've said before but I'll say again now, is that the bodhisattva vow, which is a kind of thinking, it's a kind of thinking that's in the middle of your thinking all the time. There's this deep intention, this deep wish, this deep desire, which lives at the center of your desires. And at the center of that wish is the reality, is the truth of our relationship with all beings.

[11:33]

And the truth of our relationship gives rise to a deep and somewhat rather quiet wish that all beings will realize is truth. So that's there too in the activity of our mind. And when we get in touch with that vow and experience that vow, that vow has consequence. Also, when we're not in touch with the vow and all we have is our sort of the surrounding thinking of our ordinary story of our relationship with beings, all the stories that arise in our mind have consequence. And the world that we live in is the consequence of all the stories of all the beings.

[12:36]

And not just human beings. Flies have stories too. Mountain goats have stories. Gophers have stories. I don't know what the stories of gophers are. But I try to be kind to gophers, even though they make little mountains in my yard, which I don't find attractive. But I confess to you, I quite frequently, not just sometimes, but quite frequently find them difficult to open to. I actually don't mind the gophers so much, but their work, the consequences of their story, that it's really a good idea to make mounds of dirt in this guy's yard as part of our tunneling activity.

[13:48]

So they have their stories, and I think they're deluded too, but it's I have to work pretty wholeheartedly to, you know, not go to the hardware store. People don't want me to kill gophers. Well, most people, maybe the poison salesman would like me to kill gophers, but most people I know do not want me to kill gophers, so they give me all these other kinds of equipment, you know, all kinds of beepers to put in the ground and stuff like that. But these gophers don't seem to mind. You have to use batteries to make these beepers go, which isn't good for the environment. The gophers would agree with that.

[14:54]

Get these things out of here. They're bad for the environment. But if you leave them in here, we're just going to keep digging, no problem. I think gophers have stories. I think they do. I think fish have stories and birds have stories. I think all living beings have stories. In other words, all living beings have karmic consciousness. I don't think rocks have consciousness, but rocks are the consequence of karmic consciousness. Without karmic consciousness, there would just be probability distributions of rocks. Rocks would be, you know, mountains would, there would be a lot of possibilities of mountains. There'd be lots of possible mountains.

[15:58]

But because of cognitive beings, the possibilities of mountains get limited and constricted. And not just us, humans. but also the mountain goats. And the mountain goats want the mountains to be constricted, they think. Their story is, constrict those mountains so we can climb on them. And mountain climbers also want constricted mountains. They don't want mountains that have a lot of possibilities. They have enough problems with the constricted ones. So humans and non-humans form a world as a consequence of their thinking. This is the teachings of the Buddhas and also of quantum mechanics and so on. What's out there is a probability distribution, but when you look at it, it turns into a particle. When there's an observer, a wave or a probability distribution turns into a particle.

[17:04]

things become manifested in relationship to consciousness. Before that, you can't say where they are. But if you want to say where they are, which we tend to want to do, no problem. Just think and they will congeal into something graspable through your story. We like that. This is part of our life. We have karmic consciousness and we have a world as a result of it. However, the consequence of different types of consciousness, of different types of karmic consciousness, are different. Skillful consciousnesses have different consequences as unskillful consciousnesses. And when I say consciousnesses, I mean skillful stories have different consequences from unskillful stories. And so we're encouraged to have skillful stories and give up unskillful stories because of the consequences. And vows are a little bit different, because vows are not just... Vows are about an aspiration, something which you are thinking of, but something which you are thinking about doing for a long time, or something which you think about accomplishing later, which you know is a bit much today.

[18:19]

You actually think about and aspire to the welfare of all beings at the highest level. You aspire to be able to happily offer your body in any way that would be helpful to other beings. You aspire this way. These are some vows. You aspire perhaps to be of utmost and highest level of skillful service to all beings. You aspire to practice all the practices of a Buddha and so on. These are aspirations or vows which are actually, I propose to you, the center of your heart all day long. And when people quiet down, get very quiet, they often discover these amazing aspirations. And these aspirations have more consequence when you become conscious of them. These extremely, you know, inconceivably wonderful aspirations have a greater function when there's consciousness of them.

[19:28]

They have a greater consequence. Unwholesome consequences, unwholesome stories have more negative consequence when they're not observed. Unskillful stories unobserved have a bigger consequence. Unskillful, yeah, the propagation potential of unskillfulness is greater the less observation. Does that make sense? The propagation potential of skillful stories is greater when observed. the propagation potential of unskillful karma, unskillful stories, has less consequence. Propagation potential goes down when the unskillfulness is observed. So if an unskillful thought arises and you open to it, really open to it, it's pretty much shot immediately down.

[20:36]

I shouldn't say shut down, but anyway. It's immediately disarmed, just by openness, just by radical, complete openness, which is demonstrated in the story about the Buddha under the poetry. Negative energy comes to him, he opens to it, and it's disarmed. Negative stories, unskillful stories, open, upright, gentle, disarmed. So unwholesome stories, the unwholesome consequence is pretty much nullified if they're met in a certain way with proper mindfulness. Wholehearted mindfulness meets unwholesome story. The consequence of that story is pretty much neutralized. and also the consequences of past unwholesomeness when they manifest because the consequences of karma are not karma themselves they're experiences which you might have a karmic attitude towards and if your karmic attitude is one of practice wholehearted mindfulness then the consequences are also met with they may be difficult consequences like cancer or an angry thought but if you meet with them properly

[22:03]

Practice is alive. But wholesome is the opposite. If you don't pay attention to the wholesome, it wilts. Its potential to transform the world is not fully realized. But if you wholeheartedly attend to the wholesome, it blossoms, and its consequences enhance. Does that make sense? That's the principle. Now, when it comes to these vows, which we hardly dare to open to consider. Again, people are honestly confessing to me, you know, I've got enough problems. Don't ask me to be a bodhisattva. I'm not asking you to be a bodhisattva. Yes, I am. Bringing up this bodhisattva business, I have enough problems. I've got 85 people to take care of. Don't ask me to take care of all beings.

[23:05]

Please take care of all beings, please. I know it's hard to take care of 85 or two, but I know one baby is extremely hard to take care of, especially if they die. It's very hard. One baby. How about two or six? It's almost inconceivable that someone could take care of six babies, all of whom are trying to completely control you. Six tyrants. Yes, it is hard. And we feel like, enough, enough. But opening to it also opens to support. Also in the story of the Buddha. His army's coming at him and asking pretty tough questions sometimes.

[24:14]

And the tough question was, actually, this is a myth. This isn't in the canon. But anyway, the story is that Maharishi says, who do you think you are that you can realize Buddhahood? And the Buddha thought, that's a good question, because actually, I actually can't do it by myself. So he opens up and he says, he opens up and he touches the earth. Yep. Opens up and touches the earth with his right hand and says, hey, are you all going to support this? Are you going to help me? And the earth says, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So even in that story, which is a myth, but it's true, too, that the Buddha did not attain enlightenment by herself. All beings supported her. And if she thought she could attain it by herself, that wouldn't be Buddha's teaching.

[25:17]

It wouldn't even be Buddhism. He attained the way with all beings, all beings supported him. He didn't think he did it by himself. He thinks he thought he received it, and it's true. I mean, I shouldn't say it's true, but it seems to be true. If you look at what he taught, he seems to have received this great enlightenment, wonderful great enlightenment, together with all beings. So again, the thing, in addition to being enlightened, it isn't just that you're enlightened. Bodhisattvas are enlightened. And it's easy for them to be enlightened because they open to the support that enlightens them. All things are coming forth to enlighten you. Everything enlightens you. But you have to practice wholeheartedly to open to that.

[26:18]

But that's not the end of the story. After you're enlightened, then you can really do this vow thing. Then you can use your mind to think these outrageous thoughts all day long. And these thoughts will have different consequences from your other thoughts. Like thinking, I want to help people. It is good. And if you practice wholeheartedly with, I want to help people, it will be even better. As a matter of fact, it'll not only be better, in other words, have better consequences and become more skillful, but also that whole picture will drop away and you're open to enlightenment. So it is good to have these good stories about the good things you're going to do. Those are good stories. And even before you're enlightened, you can open up to these stories which are more astounding than that, which are not just stories about the good things you're going to do, but the good things that you're going to do together with all the Buddhists. Those types of thinking are the bodhisattva vows.

[27:25]

They have a different effect from the conceivable thoughts from the reasonable good thoughts we have, they have another kind of effect. So the world is produced by the karma of living beings and it's also produced by the karma or the vows of bodhisattvas and buddhas. And buddhas have these outrageous, inconceivable vows. And so I'm actually suggesting that you begin to consider opening your mind to these vows, these other ways of thinking. And also that you're open to discovering that you actually have these ways of thinking already implicitly in your mind. When you become calm, keep your eye open to the willingness to open to all beings. Someone told me that when she follows her breathing, she becomes calm.

[28:31]

But then sometimes when she opens to certain kinds of being, like anxiety, sometimes she starts to get agitated. And I said, well, when you're calm, do you feel more willing and ready to open to the anxiety? And she said, yeah. And when you're agitated, do you feel a little less willing and ready to open to agitation? When you're agitated, do you feel less open to agitation? When you're agitated, do you feel less open to anxiety?" She said, yeah. I said, well, why don't you just go back to calming then? And then when you're calm, then you're open to the agitation and the anxiety. And then if you get agitated, then you probably start closing to the agitation again.

[29:38]

Which seems natural to me. And then go back and become more calm. When you're calm, you'll be more open to the agitation. But sometimes you might open to the agitation and not get agitated. Matter of fact, sometimes you might open to the agitation and feel more calm. That happens too. And then when you feel more calm, you open to more agitation. And then sometimes you open to more agitation, you get even calmer. Then you open to more anxiety. And you don't get more agitated, you get calmer. And the more you open, the calmer you get. But sometimes you open and you get less calm. Sometimes when you get less calm, whether you want to or not, you probably do close down. Like, leave me alone. I've got to... Resting, calm and resting are very closely related. Be generous and gentle with yourself when you need rest. When you're fatigued. Be tender. Be tender. get your blankie, and go have a little nap. Maybe you've heard in Zen, when you're tired, you rest.

[30:46]

You heard of that? When you're tired, you rest. It's not when you're tired, you just, you know, don't rest. There's that story, too. Don't rest! But also, when you're tired, you rest, and when you're hungry, you... eat if there's something available. And when you rest, you're honest about it and upright about it and gentle about it and harmonious about it and, you know, relaxed about it. So when you say, and then you tell people you're honest, you say, I want to rest now. And they say, no, you don't. You say, no, I don't. And they say, yes, you do. And you say, yes, I do. And they say, You're going to rest, but you're not going to be rough about it and stiffen up around that resting. You just want rest, so it seems like there's rest time. So be gentle about opening to these innumerable beings, both enlightened and unenlightened.

[31:56]

Don't be tense about it. And in fact, if you are tense, you're not opening. So if you open and tense up and get agitated, you're not really opening. You're leaning into the being. You're leaning into the agitation. You're leaning into the anxiety. Yeah. Right? But that's not upright. Upright is you're meeting it. You're not identifying with it or disidentifying with it. You're not leaning away from it either. Like, I'm not going to deal with... No, it's... I want to meet all beings. But not identify or disidentify. Just let them be. Like the Buddha said, the bahiya. In the seen, there's just the seen. In the heard, there's just the heard. In the anxiety, there's just the anxiety. In the agitation, there's just the agitation.

[32:56]

That's all. And be gentle about them. Yeah, up here. In the question area. Is the sound okay still? Can you hear me well? Yes. directly arose out of what you were talking about now. Yesterday morning, very early, we were practicing down beneath the big oak tree out there. I say we because, you know, all those various Michaels and the Bodhisattvas and the Buddhas.

[33:59]

Quite a group of you down there. Yeah, there was. Wonderful. Oh, wonderful. Marvelous. And the story was about the tree. The tree was joining in. And it was hunky-dory, in fact. But then later we came to practice here, and... The story was Mia, my partner's daughter, who was very sick. And I just, all the time, I keep leaning in towards because I love her. And I heard what you just said now about kind of, you know, being upright and gracious and gentle and considerate.

[35:02]

But because I... Because of that love that I have for her, we, or words slip, slide, perish, I just lean in towards it all the time. Yeah, and we are supporting you to lean into it. When you do, you have our full support. We're with you then. We and all the Buddhas are always with you no matter how much you stick your head into the sickness. But how can I be upright when... You will be upright when we support you to be upright. That's one. And when we support you to be upright, then you accept our support to be upright. So you're accepting that you love her.

[36:06]

That's good. That's great. But you have not yet accepted that we're supporting you to be upright with her. You have not yet accepted that, of course, she wants you to love her. You know that. We all know that. But you don't know that innumerable other darling young ladies would like you to sit upright. They would like you to not be leaning into Mia. They would like you to be present with Mia and present with them. Because when you lean into Mia, you lean away from them. So actually most beings, and probably Mia too, actually maybe Mia needs to tell you, Michael, I know you love me. I want you to be upright. I don't want you leaning into my illness. I want your love. but I want it uprightly. I'm having trouble being upright, Michael. Please show me. Show me your practice, that you've learned how to be upright. Teach me how to be upright, because I'm leaning into my illness, too, and it's making it a lot worse.

[37:09]

I'm leaning into my illness because I care for myself, too, but it's not helping me. And you can see it. You can see it. You see that would not help her. So it's perfectly natural for you to lean into the suffering of someone you love or lean away. Some people run away from people that they love when they're suffering. Lean into them or run away from them. Smother them or abandon them. These are what happens when we're... So it's perfectly understandable. We all have made this mistake in innumerable times and will in the future do it again and again. But on the other hand, for her sake and for the sake of all other beings be upright so that you can hang in there with her because if you keep leaning into her you're at risk of abandoning her if you lean into I'm going to take care of her that's you're at risk of burning out and running away from her

[38:18]

So for her sake and for the sustainability of your devotion to her, open to the support of all beings, including her, to really be with her wholeheartedly. Uprightness is more wholehearted than leaning in, even though leaning in is totally, there's a lot of heart in it. It's not the whole heart. It's carrying too much in one way and not enough in another. It's carrying a lot, but then it's going into excess. So when you go into excess, then no one will fault you for not carrying enough. But if you carry just the right amount, someone might say, you should care more. You have to deal with that. The right amount could look like not enough compared to excess. So please accept our support to find the true posture with this person you love so that you can care for her every moment.

[39:37]

Otherwise, you're going to poop out. If you keep leaning in, you're going to take a break. Hillary's coming up, but I want to just say something as she comes up and after she gets up. Come on, Hillary, please. So I just want to say again that, please, that enlightened beings and enlightening beings, after they're enlightened, but not yet Buddhas, they keep cranking this vow machine. You know, because they're not just, you know, they're enlightened and they're going to become more enlightened by doing this vowing, but also the world, they're now world transformers and they transform the world by their thinking, by thinking in these world transforming ways.

[40:49]

Now, everybody is transforming the world. When we have negative, limited, unhealthy thoughts, we are transforming the world. When we have positive thoughts, we're transforming the world. In addition to the positive thoughts you've had already, which are great, wonderful, now there's a possibility of taking on a new range of aspirations, a new kind of thinking on top of your skillful thinking. in addition to wishing to be beneficial to your co-workers and your family and your friends in addition to working for the environment and protecting this beautiful planet in addition to all those wholesome thoughts now open it up into even a great even further dimensions of thinking in ways that will transform the world beyond the ways you've adopted so far these inconceivable

[41:49]

outrageous vows. They're waiting for us to allow them into our consciousness and or they're waiting for us to discover at the core of our mind. So the vowing is the world transforming part of this retreat. Over and above the world transforming that we're already doing. Is that clear? Heather, I mean Hillary. I've come to ask what it means to renounce all worldly affairs. Renouncing worldly affairs means, for example, to renounce, well, basically it means to renounce thinking of yourself as separate from other beings. That's the basic worldly affair. And renounce doesn't mean throw in the trash can and beat it up.

[42:55]

It means practice uprightly with it. If you practice uprightly with a worldly affair, that's renunciation. When you practice uprightly with things, they drop. So the worldly affair may continue to come to visit you. Good morning. I'm your worldly affair this morning. And you say, what do you say? That was a hint out there. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. I don't like you. I don't dislike you. Or I like you, but I welcome you. or I don't like you and I welcome you. In other words, you're open to a worldly affair. If you fight a worldly affair, the worldly affair goes, I got her. So don't fight worldly affairs.

[43:57]

That's not renunciation. Renunciation of worldly affairs, renunciation means, in some sense, to make a new announcement. Worldly affair, I've got a new program here called welcoming you and not being attached to you and not fighting you. This is the new program. That's renouncing. Not being attached. Not being attached, okay. Thank you. And Hillary reminds me, because she's one of the people who has been keeping me informed about her conduct, that I really appreciate. I'm really grateful to you for keeping me so well informed about the way you're doing this retreat. I really feel supported by your efforts on all those little notes. Thank you. It might be good if you come kind of zip close to this sound device.

[45:02]

Thank you. I had a question about responsibility. Can you hear her? Okay. Question about responsibility, yes? Yeah. And I can understand what you were saying yesterday about spreading the Buddha and all the Buddhas and, well, I can mentally understand perhaps that when you do something that's beneficial or neutral, there would be all the support. But then, if I do... Also, when you do something unbeneficial, you're also supported. But then I couldn't imagine that the Buddhas were doing it with me. Right. You probably wouldn't imagine the Buddhas were doing it with you when you're thinking unwholesome thought. When you think an unwholesome thought and then you invite the Buddhas in, you think, OK, I'm not into that anymore. It's true.

[46:03]

Once you're open to the Buddhas, the unwholesomeness kind of drops away. but they are there supporting you and if you ignore that then you feel like well there's no Buddhists around I guess I can do this you know they abandon me you know I don't care about them since they don't care about me you know well they're talking about doing good things all the time well you know if you really care why wouldn't you be with me and so on so if they're not around you can do whatever you want right or if the people who love you are not around And don't think of them. They're not around. Don't think of them. So I can do whatever I want. It's that kind of thing. But they are around you. The people who love you are always around you. They are always thinking of you. And you can ignore them. And then when you ignore them, you can do selfish, twisted things. But if you start to think of them again, then you start to feel less comfortable about it, right?

[47:04]

And when you think about all the Buddhas, it just melts away. But they're there anyway. And if you go ahead ignoring them and do this small-scale, petty thing, if you ignore them, they're still there supporting you, like with my grandson. He does some very petty little things. I'm there with him. I support him no matter what he does. I support him no matter what he does. I hope I can keep it up when he ups the ante. Because so far he hasn't done anything that bad. He does want to kill people. wants to kill his cousins. And so, but I'm there to support him and talk to him while he wants to kill people. So what about if people who, it's when my head gets in the way and I don't actually know what is right or wrong and people who love me are advising me to do something or I'm, when I don't actually know what,

[48:10]

Is right or wrong, and then after... Okay, so you've got this person. We have a person here who doesn't know what's right or wrong. Okay? Yeah. The person could be you. The person could be me. So if it's me and you look at me, how do you practice with me? The person over here who doesn't know what's right or wrong, how do you practice with me? Well, if neither of us know what's right... No, no, you're looking at me, okay? And I'm telling you, I don't know what's right or wrong. How do you practice with this person over here who doesn't know what is right or wrong? How do you practice with me? Just be with them. Yeah, be with me. How? Listen and... Listen and what? Be close. Be close and what else? Watch. Watch what it's... Have a full heart. Be upright. Be upright. What else? Have compassion. Have compassion. Be gentle.

[49:13]

Sometimes when people see people who don't know what's right or wrong, they're not gentle with them. They get irritated just looking at somebody who doesn't know what's right or wrong. it's irritating sometimes because they don't know what's right or wrong and they're in pain, right? They're in pain when they don't know what's right or wrong. They feel insecure. So then they do something which hurts you because it's painful to see them. So then you kind of like, stop being that way. Get it together. So that isn't the way to be with them. So that would be the way you would be with someone who is like that, maybe. So when you're that way, practice that way with you. And when people around you saying, you know, you should, other people are saying, you should know what's right or wrong. Here's what's right or wrong. We'll tell you. You don't know what's right or wrong. We'll tell you. We'll tell you. All these, you know, which makes it harder to see what's right or wrong with all that noise, right? Somebody's got to take care of you that way.

[50:15]

So you have to learn to take care of yourself when you don't know what's right or wrong and a lot of other people are yelling at you. telling it what it is, who are not being gentle with you, who are not modeling letting you be. You have to learn to be that way with yourself, because sometimes when you can't think of doing it with yourself, think of how you'd do it with a child, who often don't know what's going on. And you can lose your patience with them, too. But imagine that you're really doing well with them, that you're really supporting them, you're close to them, and not really doing anything. But you're modeling with them how to meditate on their situation. And maybe you won't see what's right or wrong right away. But eventually, if you practice that way, the Buddha will come and appear to you, and you will see very clearly what the truth is. Oh, by the way, I recently looked up the word feedback, and the first meaning I found was, the first definition was, that part of a process, that part of the output of a process that becomes input to the process.

[51:36]

So like we have this process here, and part of the output of this process is people have questions. When they express them, that becomes input to the process. So feedback can be questions. or other kinds of expression from this group, from this group process, which then becomes input to the process. So I'm asking for feedback. I'm asking for output, which then can be input. And the other meaning of feedback is an evaluative expression or critical expression. So anyway, any more feedback? Yeah, come on up. Both of you can come. It saves travel time. It's good if you come closer to the speaker. My question, sorry.

[52:40]

Okay. You want to see my face? You can sit over here. It's this eternal question of my resistance to the bodhisattva vows. I struggle with desperately. And it's around the split for me internally between desire, like the truth, and realization. I think brought out the question yesterday, and I think you brought out the question for me around his experience was different from yours when you were discussing deities and sacraments and Buddhas and, you know, and I think your response to that was three levels of understanding of scripture, of reasoning, and then understanding itself, which I took as insight.

[53:49]

There can be insight at all three levels. Sure, sure. But the deepest is called direct experience. Okay. I recall my direct experience in wanting to engage in the Dharma. resulted in me taking the precepts the five lay precepts um it's like the vow took me yeah that happened it wasn't that i wanted to enter the way and do something particular and that's kind of how i feel with the bodhisattva vows i haven't had Insight it's not an embodied experience here. Nothing's taking me. It's it's it's this sense of me Wanting or desiring to do it and that you know, that doesn't feel right So my question is do I just sit and wait? And come I hope so. I hope you sit and practice And it will definitely come it's there already.

[54:54]

I If you keep practicing, the door will open, practicing these ways. One more thing. Since I've taken the precepts, I haven't had an opportunity Since I've taken the precepts, I haven't had the opportunity to make any confessions about my transgressions of them. And I need to disclose to you that actually I've broken every one of them. So I've harmed living creatures. I've used my speech falsely. I've taken harmful substances. I've misused my sexual energy. I don't think it's right for me to go into detail, but I would like to talk to you privately.

[55:57]

I hear you, and at the beginning you said you haven't had the opportunity to reveal your shortcomings in practicing these precepts. And also you said earlier that you don't feel ready to open. You didn't say this literally, but you don't feel ready to open to the opportunity because you have opportunities The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have been available for you to confess to, but you just have not accepted that opportunity. You don't have to wait until I come. You can confess to them. I think there's something to me really true about involvement. I mean, I could do it. That's why we have people, because it's easier for people to talk to people. A lot of people have an easier time talking to a person than to a statue. or to an imagined Buddha.

[57:11]

I'm just saying, if you don't have a person to talk to, even though it's easier, I understand. You don't have to wait. This is more difficult. That's why I'm doing it. It's not easier. I can do it privately. I'm just saying, don't miss the opportunities to practice confession when there's not a human being around to do it. Use those opportunities too if you want to get that. You can go out in the forest and just say, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, please concentrate your hearts on me. I want to be a disciple of you guys, but I haven't been doing very well on the precepts. Give it a try. I think you'll feel touched by your effort. Okay.

[58:19]

I'm just coming back to your question, the previous question about your grandson and, you know, when you're in a situation, what's his name? Maceo. Maceo. When Maceo wants to cross the road at the wrong time, and you're with him, you'll tell him not to do it. Would you tell him? I probably would say, I probably would say, please don't do that. And his mother would probably say, don't say please. She wouldn't say, please don't say please. She'd say, Dad, be more forceful. Anyway, I would probably say, I don't want you to cross the street. But anyway, I would definitely try to protect him from danger as much as possible, gently.

[59:33]

I have learned a lot about gently and not forcefully being on the retreat with you. But it seems to me that in some situations... Force can be gentle. Force can be gentle. And force can be generous. And force can be not generous and not gentle. So it depends whether you come from a place where the Buddhas are with you or not. Is that what you mean by being gentle? Well, part of gentle is, again, that you have no expectation and you're upright. So you offer force in some situations, but without expectation.

[60:44]

So that if you offer force and you don't get the result which you hoped for, and you expected it, then you might punish the person you're trying to protect. For example, punish someone else if you expected something. But when you give a gift, you don't expect anything. You just give a gift. And if you don't get anything back, that's fine with you. You're happy to have given a gift. And you might give another one. Keep offering yourself with no expectation. And also offer yourself gently, because you're a big, strong woman. And you could overwhelm some beings whom you wish to protect. So, another question.

[61:57]

I forgot his name. Could you speak up, please? Yes. Another question I have of... I think of you as a man who has a lot of experience. Are there not some things, some conclusions that you have come to that you really have no doubt about and that you could pass on to people I grew up in a family and I was lucky because I had three older sisters, two older sisters and by the time I arrived the boundaries were set very clearly and my parents didn't have to say don't do this or don't do that. It was just a certain rule which we all lived together under and I think it made me feel very safe as a child. So my question to you now is, because you're a man who has a lot of experience in dealing with people,

[63:00]

Are there really no ideas that you have that really would be beneficial? For example, this morning I was quite shocked when somebody blew the candle out with that statue. That really gave me a deep experience yesterday when I discovered her. Should there be no rules, underlying rules? Should there be no underlying rules? Yeah. Are you distinguishing between underlying rules and rules? I don't know the difference. Well, rules, I think rules are very useful for us to realize intimacy. So I think that's part of the Buddhist path, is to use rules to help people become free of rules.

[64:05]

Because there are rules out there but most people are like in trouble with rules because they're either taking them too seriously or not seriously enough. Either they're being too soft or too hard with the rules. So in the practice we put rules out there to help people find upright gentle, flexible, harmonious relationship with rules so that we can receive enlightenment, so we can receive wisdom. So rules are very useful opportunities to attune our practice. And the Buddha said, you know, one time he had a certain form of practice which he was involved in And then he said, well, if I still keep using that form of practice, you might think I'm not enlightened because I'm still dependent on that form of practice.

[65:11]

But I'm not dependent on the form of practice. But I continue that form of practice because I like to, not because I have to. So he keeps following certain forms, but he doesn't have to. And he says, I also do it for future generations. So he keeps up certain forms, so future generations have forms that we can use to attune their practice. So when you have a form, it kind of gives you some access to whether somebody's being gentle or not with the form. So like this morning, Wendy went to blow out the candle, to extinguish the candle, and I didn't want her to because we were going to do our ceremony. So I said, not yet. But she didn't hear me, so she did. Then I went over and told her closer, not yet. But she had already extinguished it, so then she lit it. So she and I both could see how we are in relationship to that form, to that form, like having the candle lit or not, having it lit when and where.

[66:23]

So were we gentle with each other, Were we upright with each other? Were we soft with each other? Were we harmonious with each other? There was the form. So it gave an opportunity. And then you also participated in that. And you had a response to it, too. So then you could also see, in your case, were you gentle with it? Were you upright with it? And anybody else who saw it? Did anybody else see it? You all could, like, look and see how do you relate to that form. Candle on, candle off. It's a form. And so we can all attune ourselves around it because, you know, some of us are kind of concerned with the candle. Like, Wendy and I and Janine are into the candle. Right? We're candle people. So we're committed to this form. And then we can attune ourselves to see, are we getting like, you extinguished it? Well, yes, I did.

[67:25]

That was the correct thing to do. Are you criticizing me? You know, whatever. We can all find our balance point. So these forms are kind of necessary in order to become enlightened. But once you're enlightened, you don't need them anymore. And when you don't need them anymore, you still might want to use them, though, to help other people. So Buddhas keep going to meditation after they're enlightened so that other people can use the form that they used, which they're totally free of now. They don't have to sit anymore. Early in the morning, late at night, all day long. They don't have to do that. But they like to, and also it's nice for them to show it, and then their students can try it, and then they can say, you're too much into it. That's too much, you care too much. Or, yeah, you don't care quite enough. You're leaning back, you're leaning back. You see, that's how we use qualms.

[68:26]

So we need them. We do need them. But they're just expedient means to help people. They're not ultimate truth. Ultimate truth is ungraspable, inconceivable, and so inconceivable that it can be conceivable. I have one more question relating to the previous thing. Can you hear her? Your grandson's name I forgot, or no. Is there any point... when I get to know myself and my patterns and my patterns that don't gel with the Buddha consciousness I get to know myself now I could think back At the beginning of my life, for example, when I was two and I was in the stubbornness phase, I discovered that... My point is, I don't want to go into psychological things and all that, but is there any point in knowing yourself in a psychological way?

[69:40]

Definitely. I've kind of had something which I've wanted to say for a few days now, but it hasn't kind of been able to come up and I'm still not totally sure on how it may come out, but it's a mixture of confession and wanting to kind of have some clarity on

[70:41]

This whole thing which I experience of specialness, needing to be or feeling that I am, or seeing other people as special, more special than others, kind of dividing people into special and non-special, needing to be special. So you notice in your mind there's a dividing people into special and non-special, and you want to be in a special group? That's true, yes. And there's a lot of energy in that and a lot of investment in going to proving that to myself and to other people and especially to people who I see as special. I was just thinking about, let's see, do some people who think they're special want to prove they're special to the people they don't think are special?

[71:52]

Well, some people probably do. They would like the unspecial people to think that they're special, too. Yes, definitely. Okay, so you notice this pattern. This is a karmic pattern. And, you know, it's basically just an amplification of me and the universe. Because when it's me doing the practice, you know, that makes me sort of, that's sort of a special view of me. I'm a special case. Everybody else is included in the universe. I'm a special case. I mean, I'm special. I mean, like, you're all in the universe, but I am acting upon you So the specialness is actually a ramification of basic delusion. So when you see that, you're having a vision of delusion.

[72:54]

And now you get to study that, which you are. Buddhas are those who are enlightened about delusion. It isn't that Buddhas are those who have no delusion. They actually are those who have studied it exhaustively and understood it. So you have a chance to become not just enlightened, but eventually become a Buddha by studying delusion. And this is an example. And it's just a, like I said, it's a nice ramification or, you know, elaboration and creative working with the basic delusion that people do think they're special. We think we're like something separate from the universe which actually creates us. We think we're separate from our mother. which is not really possible, otherwise we wouldn't be here. So yeah, so just keep studying this and try to be upright with it.

[73:56]

And upright with it also means don't be in a hurry to get over this thing. This is the worldly affair that keeps coming back day after day. Oh yeah, who is mirror, mirror on the wall? Who's the special one? Hmm. oh yeah it's me there we go again moment after moment special one special one here he is you know and you know be gentle with it be be upright be patient be harmonious be peaceful with this special guy And everybody else has got basically the same thing. And some of them are really special. So this is a normal thing. And if you don't keep track of it, if you don't observe it graciously, of course it can get extremely harmful.

[75:02]

because then you try to, you know, or, you know, it can get really harmful if you don't keep in touch with it. But if you are keeping in touch with it, that's very good. I'm special. I'm keeping in touch with it. And some people are keeping in touch with it and some aren't. And the ones who aren't are missing a great opportunity and the ones who are are doing a really good thing. That's true. And it's rare that people do take care of this and keep in touch with this idea of specialness. It's rare. It's rare and wonderful. And the more they take care of it, the more they'll realize that they're not special. People who don't take care of this will keep living in that world and keep being trapped in the world of being special. And some of them, of course, because they know they're not supposed to think that, put it into unconsciousness. And then it comes out in these really unhealthy ways.

[76:04]

So get it out in the open like you've got it. Keep it out there. And it will be neutralized. And actually, the harm will be neutralized. And the light will be revealed through this pattern. It will turn into wisdom. Everything, including this, is a revelation of the great light. Right. So, my mother died on the 2nd of July this year.

[77:09]

And... I had spent years wanting her dead. And... And then I realized that it wasn't doing me any good. And so I got very ill. And I realized that I had to forgive her and that I had to forgive me. And so I sort of made an effort at doing that. But it was still really difficult to be with her. But last autumn and the autumn before, I spent three, four months caring for her each time.

[78:14]

But some of the time I couldn't care because it was too painful. And so I had to go out and be somewhere else. And she was lonely. But I just couldn't. I couldn't do anything for more. Anyway, so this January, she lived up in Grimsby, which is sort of the north-ish. And I brought her down here, where my family are based. And we came down for the Christmas period and New Year.

[79:36]

And then January came. And I was looking to... I'd said to my mum, I can't... I've got to do some... I can't stay. I cannot carry on. And she was okay to be looking after herself, but I knew she would be lonely, but I couldn't make her not lonely. I can't do that. I've never been able to do that. Right. You can't make someone not lonely. No. That's right. You can't even make yourself lonely. Or not lonely. Yeah. And so... So this sort of remarkable thing happened to me in... I... I googled Gaia House because I'd been here once four years ago.

[80:44]

And they were looking for a maintenance manager. And I thought, oh, I could be a maintenance manager. That's easier. Being a maintenance manager is much easier than being what I was being. So to put a long story short, I'm here as maintenance manager. So I got a phone call saying that my mother had been taken into hospital And so I had a decision to make and the decision whether it was to go straight up to hospital or whether to my mother or whether to wait. And I decided that I'd wait because I thought if I go up, I'm only going to be able to go up for about a week.

[81:50]

Because I can't be there when she comes out of hospital and look after her. I can't do that. I can't do that. And anyway, I have an excuse because I have to be here. And she died at the end of that week. She died on a Sunday night and I was travelling up on the Monday. I don't feel guilty about that. I don't feel that. I don't feel guilt there at all. In fact, I don't feel guilt about my mother. I did, but I don't know. But since she died, I just sort of... I'm just on a total emotional rollercoaster and I don't know half the time whether I'm coming or going. And, um, I, I, you know, I mean, I'm getting lots of support from the managers here and I don't feel like I'm supporting them.

[83:06]

And consequently not supporting people here on the team. So, um, Would you like to support us? Yeah, I'm trying. I do. Yeah. Yeah. When you come to sit here, do you think that supports us? Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. So you can see a little bit that you're supporting us? I can see a lot of ways that I do, but it doesn't feel like I am. You can see that you do, but it doesn't feel like you're doing it. What's the start? Yeah, that's the other thing. As a child, we used to walk around at night.

[84:20]

and see all these houses with lights on and the warm glow inside and used to really wish I could go in for that and I wasn't able to get there and that sort of thing happens all the time so I'm... I sort of... I come here A, B, C, I don't know linearly, but partly because I thought this would be good. I could be a maintenance manager and I won't have to be with my mother And I can find out about breath, which was something that I realized was very sacred to me.

[85:34]

But sometimes I sort of wish that I didn't have this thing, that I could just be normal. and live in the normal world and not have all these questions and all this pain. But I know that the normal world isn't painless or real or whatever, and it doesn't make anything any easier. Knowing the little bit one knows, I know, doesn't make it any easier. It just makes it, it just is.

[86:41]

I don't know, I can't explain that bit. It's difficult. But I just, so I wanted to... confess and share that with everybody and me and June and Buddies and do sacrifice. The trees. So, having got rid of that, well, Michael asked you about rocks and I was really shocked. actually, because the earth, there's no difference between me and the earth. We have got the same thing.

[87:45]

We are the same. So the same must go with rock and water and we're the same. So how can you differentiate? We are the same. I've forgotten the question. I'm so confused. You see? Confusion. But he asked you a question about whether rocks were the same as. Do rocks have consciousness? Do rocks have consciousness? Yeah, yeah. The earth must have a consciousness. It's a little bit like, in a sense, what do you call it? In a sense, mountains do have toenails. In a sense, they do.

[88:47]

Yeah. But in another sense, they don't. But there's a sense in which you have toenails. And in another sense, I don't. But anyway, there isn't really a difference. I agree. And yet I would say that, I'll just say very gently, I don't think mountains have consciousness. However, I do think mountains are born with me. I think, and born with you. Every moment that you're born, you're born together with the mountains. There's no you being born without them, and there's no them being born without you. You're very intimate with them. You animate the mountains, the mountains animate you. You have a life together, one life with the mountains. But I don't think they have consciousness. I don't think that they want to hurt anybody. I don't think they ever think of hurting people. I don't think they think of helping people, but they do help people. and they do hurt people.

[89:49]

So I just think that they don't have the kind of psychological problems that we have. I have no indication that they suffer the way we do. They blow up sometimes. They blow up. They blow up, yeah. But I think they blow up together with us. I think they're trying to teach us something when they blow up. But I don't think they do it consciously. I think they do it intimately. But that's just what I think. It's just a thought. But I do definitely feel that the mountains are walking and dancing and singing. I just don't think they're conscious of it. I don't think mountains can resist being mountains, as far as I know. But humans can resist being humans. It's part of humanness. We can wish to be something other than we are. But I don't think mountains are into that. But maybe they are. I just, someday they'll tip me off and say. But goats can.

[90:51]

Huh? Goats can. I think goats can. Yeah, and flies. They have, you know, they have huge, wonderful brains, you know. A fly brain, by the way, is like much, much bigger than a human, than a, what do you call it, those stem cell embryos. are much smaller than a fly brain. Flies are incredibly complex, brilliant organisms. So are some cells. But anyway, I think flies have karmic consciousness and suffer. That's why I try not to kill flies. And also, I think humans have karmic consciousness. That's why I try not to kill humans. And I try not to kill humans who kill flies. I feel like it sometimes. You know? So anyway, I think in the fly I can see the karmic consciousness.

[91:55]

I can see it. In the gopher I can see suffering and fear. I can't see the fear in the mountains. I feel the mountains are teaching me fearlessness. I think the mountains are teaching me the Buddha way, in a way that most humans do not. So they're teaching us the Buddha way, but I don't see them as conscious teachers of the Buddha way. I see them as living Buddhas, but not having psychological problems, like human Buddhas have psychological problems, or had psychological problems, like us. Thank you. Ah, it's the candle snuffer.

[93:08]

And the candle lighter. The candle woman. I'm sorry. It was really okay. It was a lovely moment in Zen history. I want to acknowledge something and at the same time I don't want to give an identity because in case something wasn't appropriate

[94:13]

And I will involve that person. That seems good. So I just say that if it's being a little bit unspecific. I was helped very sensitively by another being. responding, another being responded to my need for support. It felt real neat to me anyway. This being responded. And as far as I can measure these things, The beingness of the two beings involved was upright, peaceful, gentle, and valid, was appropriate, felt appropriate.

[95:41]

I don't know if it transgressed some kind of rules. I don't know. It might have. I mean, I have that question. I don't know. But in the instant, it seemed to transcend that kind of thought process. It was in the more unformed, unformed. And I wanted to acknowledge this because the beings knew when the support was needed, when it wasn't needed, and everything went along hunky-dory. And I did not actually, although I could have figured it out if I'd been able to figure out, but I wasn't figuring out.

[96:46]

So I did not know the identity of the being. So I went on walking, and I looked behind me. And of course, I saw who the being was. I was wrong in the identity of the being. I had attributed another identity to that being. I'd done that. I was quite surprised. But, and then I observed as I went on around the circle, When I knew the identity of the being, it changed things. And this thing of specialness of I don't know what to call it, but of trouble, certainly trouble.

[98:05]

And just as I say this, I'm reminded of the story of Amor and Psyche, which I've never really understood. But the trouble comes when she takes the candle and tries to figure out if it's a monster or what it is that she's making love with. And I really experienced that. But I just want to say thank you and acknowledge that opportunity and also the other being who was involved in that too although it doesn't make a very coherent story nonetheless there was another the other being who I thought it was needs to be included

[99:22]

in the story. So I wanted to acknowledge, to say thank you to all the beings involved in the story. You were first, Alan. Been here for a while, haven't you? Weren't you waiting there for a while? Unless you don't want people to go ahead of you? I sit here anyway. I hesitated because I had come forward to say something which seemed more relevant to John and Janine.

[100:41]

And I guess it's in part confession. I think when I first asked to receive the precepts, I said to Rev, I'd like to take the precepts. And Red was very helpful in letting me know that people asked to receive the precepts. So they buy the precepts. It's actually... I'll read out some more now, but it's not something I can take. But when I first... When I first felt like I wanted to embody the Buddha way, it did feel like I wanted to do that. I wanted to take the precept. It did feel like I wanted to get over that.

[101:47]

And I felt like the precepts might be helpful in that. And they really have got to sew this neat little robe with a lot of help. But in sewing it, it kind of helped me to realize how much help I was getting. And it's been helpful in ways I wouldn't imagine, actually. And I guess that relates to something that was said. I can't remember your name. Paul. Paul, by Paul. Because one of the things that wearing this neat robe has helped me do is wonder if people think I'm special because I'm wearing this neat robe. Or wondering if people think that I think I'm special.

[102:52]

You're right. LAUGHTER Yeah. LAUGHTER So you don't have to worry. LAUGHTER But I vow to carry on confessing that, and with your help, I hope that I can get over it. Okay. I would like to say something still on the note of the specialness which Paul triggered.

[104:04]

I was walking on the steps, on the stairs, and I really wanted to pay attention to each step and trying to feel each step and to do it mindfully. or to try to be open to all beings so we could do it mindfully. And then the other person was walking in front of me and... And I judged that person that she just walks on her tiptoes almost and I felt, I'm doing it better. But this is not the end because then I went to see you privately. talk about something different. But then you gave an example to what I've been talking, an example that it's not very skillful to walk on the steps mindfully, just to prove ourselves that we walk better than other people.

[105:14]

And I'm trying to be really upright with my shame. Thank you. It feels a bit, people have been talking very personally in movies with me, so I'm not sure this fits so well. I'm still on theory, if you like.

[106:15]

Because I think when you talk about the light and the something to me that feels like a an amazing force that's a life and energy something that is beneath that we are just and we just exhibit it comes through into us I just think that's Wonderful. I always become very disappointed when we start talking about Buddhas and Bodhisattvas because for me, A, because as I was saying to you yesterday, they leave me cold. They don't... I don't think it's resistance. I don't think it's... I just don't get it.

[107:20]

I don't believe in them. They don't mean anything to me. And it's also disappointing because it seems to me you then divide something up into, and humanize them. You anthropomorphize them, or the idea does. And puts onto them some sort of, starts to feel like sort of house gods. That they have a purpose, that they've got a purpose for us. We seem to be putting onto them some of our own need to have a meaning and a sense of control. And that I know I have and I want to. That's the sort of human way. And it seems to me this is something much more powerful, much more amoral, much more unintentional.

[108:24]

which is why I feel I can't relate to what I think you're talking about, the Buddhas, which comes closer to something like it. Well, can we stop there? You introduced a lot. So sometimes we say, I would say, you know, some people have trouble with Buddhas. I say, well, they have trouble seeing Buddhas in everything. And sometimes, like somebody said it to me recently, I said, well, do you have a problem with seeing beauty in everything? He said, no. I said, well, the beauty of everything is, if you can see the beauty in everything, or the light in everything, that's, in some sense, what we call dependent core arising. And if you can see dependent core arising, you're seeing the Dharma. If you see the Dharma, you're seeing the Buddha. The Buddha is, and that Buddha can, if you want to, you can anthropomorphize that light.

[109:31]

If you want to anthropomorphize the light, the light says, go ahead. But you don't have to anthropomorphize it. But it will allow itself to be anthropomorphized if you need that for a while. You don't want it, but if somebody else wants it, they'll do it. If you don't want it, they'll do what you want. The Buddha, the light, which is the Buddha, will adapt itself to whatever you need, to whatever, however your mind works, it'll be whatever you need. And if you think that some, if somebody else makes it anthropomorphic, that's the way, that's the way, you know, it may work that way for them. Just like in some religions, they anthropomorphize something. And some people like that. But even in those traditions, Some people understand that the anthropomorphic transformation is just that that's for the people's benefit that it can go that way.

[110:37]

So the principle is that Buddha is not a person. Buddha is like space, radiant space that pervades the entire universe. It's everywhere. It's in everything. And it's not stuck there. If beings need it to be transformed, it can be transformed into whatever would help, into a mountain, into a man, into a woman, into a tree. It can be transformed in whatever way the mind of the person needs it to be transformed to receive the light. Some light is invisible. Physical light is invisible. Spiritual light is invisible. But it can illuminate us And so if there's some way that it can be transformed that would, like into a face that can wink at us and get us to laugh and open up, it'll do that. But that's not, that face is not it.

[111:42]

But a lot of people need a face to look scary or whatever, or to look sweet, to snap them out of. The light itself doesn't necessarily work on them. So part of the thing about saying Buddhas is that the light, the light, the fact that the light can be transformed, the fact that there's compassion in the light and that the light cares, has a care in it, has a wish in it. There's a wish in the light. And the wish in the light has to do with that the light comes from this intimate relationship among all things. The intensity of our relationship is that light. But there's a wish in the light. There's a compassion in the light. And that compassion causes, in response to beings, Buddhas to manifest in different physical forms that would be helpful to people.

[112:44]

But we also sometimes call that a phantom. a phantom body of the Buddha. It's a kind of magical transformation of the light for the benefit of beings, which that light is willing to let itself be transformed. And the light is not some, it's a spiritual thing, but it's a spiritual thing that, what do you call it, emanates from the relationship of physically embodied beings. So it totally includes all the flesh of the world, but it's not just the flesh, it's how the flesh is relating to the other flesh. That relationship is a radiance, which when we open to, we're not only happy, but we can help others much more effectively, other embodied beings. And we can even work for it to be embodied in whatever way is helpful. But that's all just for the sake of people.

[113:47]

It's not the ultimate true body of Buddha. So there's the teaching of the true body of Buddha, which is like space. And then there's the teaching of the transformation body, which is whatever way works for people. And then there's another body, which is the bliss body, which is the joy of seeing the relationship between the transformation and the light. And for me, you see, the light, what you're talking about, the light, is far more amazing than when people start talking about Buddhas. You could be more amazing. You could see it, that's fine. You get to find whatever is most amazing right now. When you ask me to make my vows or to pay homage, can I not pay homage to the Buddhas? Can I pay homage to the light? You could pay homage to the light that is paying homage to one of Buddha's bodies. That's definitely one of Buddha's bodies.

[114:50]

It's called the true body of Buddha when you pay homage to the light. Definitely that's welcome. And if you do that, that will help you open up to the other bodies which you're not yet ready to open to. But you will eventually open to all bodies. It's a threat. It's a threat, it's a promise. It shows your potential, that you have this potential to open to all bodies, not just all bodies of Buddha, but all the bodies of living beings. And it helps to open to the light that supports you and buoys you up to do this other work, which also we want to do because we care about these people, because that light cares about all these people which we have not yet opened to. wants to help us open to all beings who are still a little bit afraid of some of them or just don't like them.

[115:54]

So open to that light, pay homage to that light, make offerings to that light, and that light will help you and support you to keep growing and opening to unlimited beings.

[116:08]

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