Yes. Is it true that, therefore, that no man is an idol like them? That you are one? Yes. True practice of the true mind of faith, of the true body of faith. sitting in this seat and hearing us all chant the verses on arousing the vow of Ehe, I usually feel that something about what we just said should be acknowledged right away.

[02:06]

And just now what struck me was, which often does, is that by revealing and disclosing our lack in faith and practice, we will receive immeasurable help from Buddhas and bodhisattvas. It seemed to me you could add to the list of those who will help us when we reveal and disclose our lack of faith in practice. And the thought also came up, well, what about revealing and disclosing our faith in practice? Well, revealing and disclosing your lack of faith in practice is practice.

[03:19]

So you're showing your practice at the same time that you acknowledge any lack of faith. But by admitting areas of our functioning that are a little or quite off from the practice, by opening to that, acknowledging it, not running away from it, and just acknowledging and disclosing, not acknowledging, disclosing, and going any further than that, really, but just openly admitting some little or big deviation from the middle way, And when we're like that, we are open to receive something which is right under our nose all the time anyway.

[04:25]

The Buddhas are not being stingy. But we don't receive it when we are not acknowledging what we're up to. So if we are up to any kind of resistance to the practice, any distraction from the practice, if we notice that, are open to it and admit it, that is a mode of receiving the help which is always right here, the great, vast Buddhadharma, which is never apart from us, right where we are. But if we overlook what's going on, somehow we get distracted. or we are distracted. A basic practice which I have been talking about over and over and over

[05:43]

I will now bring up again, and it's basically the samadhi of the Zen tradition, the samadhi of being ready to receive awakening, the mode of readiness. the mode of childlike readiness, which is to meet whatever comes with no grasping and no seeking, to meet whatever comes with no grasping or seeking.

[06:46]

This is how Buddhas meet whatever comes. Whoever comes, they meet, but no grasping or seeking in their meeting. And in this mode, the Buddhas receive help from all those they meet, too. And all those who meet them in that mode receive the Buddhas. And in the words of a scholar who observed the San Francisco Zen Center, this is, to meet whatever comes with complete relaxation of the San Francisco bodywork style.

[07:49]

To meet whatever comes without trying to control the experience. open-hearted, empty-handed, empty-minded, total meeting. This is a practice recommended now for quite a few centuries. Now you have it. If you lack faith in it, and you admit your lack of faith in it, If you deviate from it and get into grasping and seeking, if you tense up and contract and try to control what's happening, if you admit that, if you acknowledge and expose that, then again, you're back on track.

[08:56]

So that's a basic practice which I would bring up now and then during this week. and beyond. And remember that if you slip away from this middle way of no grasping and seeking, no rejecting or clinging, in the face of what's happening. If you veer away from that, then we have a practice called confession and repentance, and then you're okay. So don't expect necessarily that you'll never veer from this practice, because expecting that would also be veering from the practice. So don't have any expectation of being able to realize this practice, and you realize it. Don't be concerned about yourself realizing it, and you realize it.

[10:01]

Don't be concerned about realizing anything and you realize it. But if you get concerned about realizing something and you have these expectations, then just confess it and come back to Buddha. Come back to Buddha's way. So that's kind of like your job and my job. Buddhas need us to practice that way. I think, as far as I can tell, they need us to do that. so that their help can come to us, so that their Dharma can enter the bodies and minds of us. If we don't do that work, we become tough, and the Buddhas can't necessarily, with all their skill, get through the toughness of our distraction and resistance. However, they patiently wait, always thinking up new ways to encourage us to give up our resistance to their gifts.

[11:12]

This week I thought I might discuss with you a Mahayana scripture wherein the Buddhas are emanating gifts for many, many moments, emanating all kinds of gifts to beings. And so I thought I would like to bring up these gifts that this sutra offers, that this Sutra offers about the Samadhi of the Buddha and the Samadhi of the totally developed Bodhisattvas. The name of the scripture is the Shuram Gama Samadhi Sutra. It's a scripture of the samadhi, the awareness of the shuram gama.

[12:37]

And shuram gama means, I think shura or shuram means a hero or heroine or heroic or fearless. And gama means, or gamana means, you know, progress or march. or going forth. So it's the heroic, in some sense, process of the bodhisattva. So it's the samadhi, it's the awareness, it's the settled concentration on this, the way the bodhisattva moves on the path with all beings. That's what the sutra's about. So we have aroused the vow of the Soto Zen school.

[14:05]

Now let's open the sutra. An unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect Dharma is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kalpas, having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words, an unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect Dharma. is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kaphas, having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words and unsurpass penetrating and perfect dharma.

[15:19]

is rarely met with even a hundred thousand million couples having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. How many was that? That's good. Shuram Gama Samadhi Sutra. I'll be reading an English translation of a Chinese translation. The Chinese translation was done by Kumara Jiva. So around towards the end of the fourth century, beginning of the fifth century, as Kumarajiva translated this. And the translator, we have two new translations of this sutra, one by Lamott.

[16:28]

Actually, first of all, Lamott translated from Chinese and Tibetan into French, and now it's been translated into English recently. And now at the same time, we have a new translation from Chinese to English by John McRae. This Shurangama Samadhi Sutra is not the same as the Shurangama Sutra that maybe some of you have heard about, which was quite popular in China also. So I think some of you have heard of the Shurangama Sutra, right? But probably none of you, I shouldn't say none of you, but maybe none of you have read the Shurangama Samadhi Sutra. Have any of you read it? Charlie Cornyn read it while he was at Tassajara, read part of it. So it's new. You have this new sutra. Anyway, it's a different sutra from the other one.

[17:35]

And it starts out something like this, Thus I have heard. At one time, the Buddha was in Rajagriha on Girdhukutra Pravata, which means Vulture Peak, with a great assembly of Bhikshus, 32,000 Bhikshus, and Mahasattva Bodhisattvas numbering 72,000. At that time, Excuse me. These last, namely the bodhisattvas, were these bodhisattvas who were at this assembly. Do you remember how many there were? Yeah, there's a whole bunch. And all these bodhisattvas were universally known. Everybody knew them. They were famous. They were possessed of the Dharanis. They were gifted in eloquence and delighted in expounding ceaselessly.

[18:41]

well established in samadhis, in the concentrations. They never strayed from these concentrations. They were skilled in knowledge and of inexhaustible wisdom. They possessed the certainty concerning the profound teachings and had penetrating, profound expositions of the Dharma. For innumerable, incalculable periods, they had cultivated good dharmas and still recall all of them. They had overcome Mara and adversaries. They had secured perfectly adorned Buddha lands. They possessed great goodwill. great loving-kindness, Maha Maitri, great compassion, Maha Karuna, and their bodies were adorned with all marks.

[19:54]

They had reached the other shore of great vigor. They were acquainted with all languages and other skills of means. Their practices and bodily attitudes were perfectly consummate. They were all determined as to the three doors of deliverance, which are the samadhis of the signless, the wishless, and empty. Through unobstructed knowledge, they had penetrated the triple world. They had formed the resolve to never abandon anyone. They were gifted with mindfulness, intelligence, and understanding, as well as patience and knowledge. The bodhisattvas endowed with such virtues were — and I'm not going to say these in Sanskrit — at Tassajara I had

[21:06]

Reverend Myo said them in Sanskrit because he studied Sanskrit. Didn't I? That was lovely. It was a challenge even for him, but I'm not going to try to say it in Sanskrit. I'll just say the English translation. So here's the names of the bodhisattvas who were sitting in on this discussion of this samadhi. The first one was called, Setting the Irreversible Wheel of Dharma Rolling. Next bodhisattva was called setting the wheel of dharma after having aroused the thought of bodhi rolling. Then there was the bodhisattva unobstructedly setting the wheel of dharma turning. The bodhisattva unstained purity. The bodhisattva eliminating all veils of passions. The bodhisattva delighting in adopting pure bodily attitudes.

[22:10]

That's a good one for Sashin. Just throughout the day, delight in adopting pure bodily attitudes. Strutting around this room, sitting in pure, upright bodily posture. bowing with pure bodily attitude, brushing your teeth, using your eating bowls, placing food in your mouth with pure bodily attitude. Delighting. There was a bodhisattva by that name at this sutra recitation. The bodhisattva royal intelligence adorned with marvelous marks. The bodhisattva not wronging any being. And there was another translation is a bodhisattva not deluding any being.

[23:22]

The bodhisattva intelligence like the sea of infinite virtues. The bodhisattva of senses ever concentrated and undistracted. The Bodhisattva of truthful sounds. The Bodhisattva, praise of all the deities. The Bodhisattva, sovereign king of Dharanis. The Bodhisattva, adornment of eloquence. The Bodhisattva, Manjushri. This is what Manjushri means, of gentle mastery. or gentle mastery, or sometimes sweetness and light. Crown Prince of Dharma.

[24:26]

The Bodhisattva Maitreya. The Bodhisattva of Love. The next Buddha is the Bodhisattva of Love. loving-kindness bodhisattva Maitreya, the bodhisattva king of the summit of Sumeru, the bodhisattva intelligence like the sea adorned with jewels of the virtues, the bodhisattva of great adornments, the bodhisattva of great marks, the bodhisattva mark of light, the bodhisattva majesty of light, the Bodhisattva pure intelligence, the Bodhisattva queen of joy, the Bodhisattva firm might, the Bodhisattva firm intelligence, Dhridhamati. This Bodhisattva, Dhridhamati, is the one who asked the questions in this sutra.

[25:32]

And most of you have never heard of Dhridhamati before, right? He's not a well-known bodhisattva anymore. He was at the time, as you heard earlier. Everybody knew about him back in the old days, but now he's not so well-known. Dhridhamati means firm intelligence or resolute mind. So those are the bodhisattvas that were there. And when I read that list, I thought, the names of these bodhisattvas are kind of like, again, if you think of all those names together, that's kind of like instruction about how to listen to the sutra. Their names kind of guide you towards the attitude, because they're creating this context in which the Buddha can talk like this. The way the Buddha talks here, he probably wouldn't be able to talk unless there was those kinds of beings who would allow him to say these, to talk about the samadhi.

[26:39]

So if I listen to those names, that helps me listen to the sutra. Dhridhamati, the bodhisattva of firm intelligence, had this thought. I would like to ask the Tathagata a question. And what kind of a question? I would like to ask the question such as to protect the lineage of the Buddhas. The kind of person this Bodhisattva was is that she wanted to ask a question that would protect the lineage of the Buddhas.

[27:48]

She wanted to ask a question that would protect the lineage of the Dharma. and that would protect the lineage of the Sangha. She wanted to ask a question that would obscure and eclipse the hang-ups of Mara. And Mara, you know, Mara, basically the root comes, it's related to the word Marana, Marana. Mara really means the destroyer or the deadener. It's the deadening habits of beings that basically close us down to the teachings that make it hard for us to open and be present for the teachings. All those different ways Mars symbolizes or personifies those things that destroy our receptivity and enthusiasm.

[28:54]

So the Bodhisattva wanted to ask a question which would obscure and eclipse this kind of activity and confront proud people. Excuse me, confound proud people. Thus, those who have not yet, wanted to ask a question, thus those who have not yet planted good roots will plant them immediately. Those who have already planted good roots will add to them. And those who have not yet aroused the thought of supreme and perfect enlightenment will arouse the thought of complete and perfect enlightenment. This bodhisattva wanted to ask a question such that those who have not yet planted good roots would immediately plant them.

[30:07]

And also those who have not yet aroused the thought of realizing supreme, perfect enlightenment would now arouse that thought. This is the question that the Bodhisattva wants to ask. And you're going to hear this question probably pretty soon. The question that this bodhisattva asks, hoping that if anybody in this room hasn't planted good roots, that they will do so immediately, that they'll want to plant the kind of good roots that you're going to hear about and arouse this mind, give rise to this mind, this outrageous mind that thinks about supreme, perfect enlightenment and wants to realize it for the welfare of all beings. Ask a question so that those who have already aroused the thought will become irreversible in this thought, unshakable in this thought.

[31:16]

And the reversible bodhisattvas will rapidly attain unsurpassed, complete and perfect enlightenment. Anyuttara samyak sambodhi. Beings speculating on objects and attached to false views will arouse the thought of eliminating them. Beings attached to inferior teachings will become resolutely attached to the supreme teaching. Those who are resolutely intent on sublime teachings will experience great joy. So this Bodhisattva Dhridhamati was in this assembly. He had this thought. He wanted to ask a question like that. He said, I want to ask a question like that. Okay? Having had this thought, Dhridhamati rose from her seat, having arranged her upper robe over one shoulder.

[32:20]

Like I'm wearing this one. See, just one shoulder. That's how she did it. Then she placed her right knee on the ground and having extended her joined hands towards the Bhagavat, she said to him, you know, in some foreign language, but this is a translation, Bhagavat, I would like to ask the Bhagavat Tathagata, I would like to question the Bhagavata, the Tathagata, on a small point. If the Bhagavata gives me leave to ask a question, the Buddha said, the Dhridhamati, question the Tathagata on whatever you wish, and I, in answering those questions, will delight your mind."

[33:28]

The Bodhisattva Dhridhamati said to the Buddha, Bhagavat, what is the samadhi through which a Bodhisattva rapidly attains anuttara samyak sambodhi? What is the samadhi through which the bodhisattva rapidly attains unsurpassed, complete, perfect awakening? What is the samadhi through which a bodhisattva is never apart from the frequentation by the Buddhas? What is the samadhi by which the bodhisattvas are never apart from the Buddhas face to face?

[34:32]

If you excuse me, I will tell you that the samadhi by which you're never apart from the Buddhas face to face is to be never apart from the Buddhas face to face. That's the samadhi. But do you want to have the Buddhas in your face all the time, never apart from having Buddhas in your face? If you do not want Buddhas in your face all the time, well, then you don't want the samadhi that they're talking about. But don't worry, because as you'll find out later, most bodhisattvas are not ready for this either. They occasionally don't want Buddha in their face. They want Buddha to move to the side so they can see their own face. in the mirror and forget that they're looking at Buddha. But anyway, what is the samadhi through which you're always, you're never apart from Buddha face to face?

[35:41]

That's what he wants to know. What is the samadhi through which the bodhisattva illuminates with his own light the entire universe. What is the samadhi through which the bodhisattva acquires wondrous wisdom so as to destroy mara? What is the samadhi through which the bodhisattva obtains mastery in knowledge and wins spontaneous knowledge? What samadhi obtains the untaught wisdom and does not depend on others? What samadhi possesses indestructible eloquence up to

[36:44]

final limit. What Samadhi obtains the basis of supernormal power and thus ensures herself of an incalculable lifespan. What Samadhi expounds the Shravakayana, the vehicle of the listeners, to adherence of all the listeners. What Samadhi expounds the Prajeka Buddha vehicle to adherence of the Prajeka Buddhas. What Samadhi expounds the Mahayana to the adherence of the Mahayana. What Samadhi penetrates the teachings of the listeners, the Shravakas, without entering into the predestination of the Shravakas. This word predestination, another way to say it is certainty that you're going to attain the fruit of that vehicle.

[38:01]

So the fruit of the vehicle of the shravaka, shravaka, those who listen, is arhatship, and the fruit is knowledge of the destruction of all the defilements and knowledge of the non-arising of dharmas. These two knowledges constitute the enlightenment of the shravaka. And so there's a samadhi through which these listeners, through which the bodhisattva can penetrate that certainty of attaining that fruit, that goal. And then similarly, what is the samadhi that penetrates the teachings of the Pratyekabuddhas without entering into the

[39:09]

the certainty of attaining that fruit that the Pratyekabuddhas have. What is the samadhi that penetrates the teachings of the Buddhas without entering into complete cessation? This is kind of a big point, this one. What time is it?

[40:26]

Maybe I'll just finish the question and come back to some of these big points in my next lifetime. That big point was, what is the samadhi through which the bodhisattva penetrates the teachings of the Buddha but without entering into complete cessation? What is the samadhi through which the bodhisattva manifests the figure and colors and bodily attitudes of a śravaka, of a listener, but without ever straying inwardly from the thought of enlightenment." So that means basically there is this way of practicing, this monastic way of practicing as exemplified by the Buddhist monks who take monastic vows.

[41:37]

And bodhisattvas, there's a samadhi for bodhisattvas so that they can manifest the form of a Buddhist monk and follow those monastic precepts, but yet not ever straying inwardly from the thought of of enlightenment, which is to attain enlightenment for the sake of all beings. So you enter into the form and shape and so on of training yourself according to these monastic precepts, but you don't lose track of the attainment of enlightenment for the welfare of others. In other words, you aren't doing these practices to purify yourself, even though they look like personal purification practices. There's a samadhi.

[42:42]

What is the samadhi that would allow you to enter into being really concerned with something that looks like it's about you while simultaneously never losing track that this is not about you? and not be at least a bit concerned about yourself while you're practicing with precepts about your own conduct. That's what this bodhisattva is wondering. What kind of samadhi would you be able to do that? So again, here, in this little session, we have various regulations for you to follow, which are about your conduct. Like, you know, if you're going to cough or sneeze, You know, lift your robe up and cover your face, you know, so you don't. That's an example of a monastic precept. Don't eat with your mouth open.

[43:44]

I mean, don't talk with your mouth open. I mean, don't talk while you're eating? I don't know. What is it? Don't chew with your mouth open. Chew with your mouth shut. And don't talk while you're eating, while you're chewing. Is that it? What is it? What's the rule? Don't talk with your mouth open. Don't talk with your mouth full of food. Don't show people the food in your mouth while you're talking. Wait until you don't have any food in your mouth before you open it and show it to people. No food fights. And don't look around the center to see how other people are eating. Be on time for the periods. Delight in pure bodily conduct. These are monastic Can you practice those without getting distracted from realizing Bodhi for the welfare of the other people who aren't practicing the precepts as well as you?

[44:57]

Or who are doing it better than you? Everybody. But it's people that sometimes get distracted while they're doing these precepts from that kind of point. They have this aspiration, but then they lose sight of it when they're working with these little details. What's the samadhi that helps you not get distracted from the main point while you're doing the little things which are somewhat helpful? What's a bodhisattva that manifests through an illusionary concentration the figure, colors, and bodily attitudes of a tathagata? What's the samadhi through which the bodhisattva manifests the figure, colors, and bodily attitudes of a pratyekabuddha without ever straying inwardly from the thought of great compassion of the Buddhas?

[46:12]

What's the samadhi through which a bodhisattva could do this, enter into this sesshin and practice through this sesshin and take care of the commitments we have made to the forms of sashi without ever inwardly losing track of great compassion, moment by moment. What kind of a samadhi is that, that manifests that kind of unforgiving of compassion while dealing with these details of behavior? What's the samadhi through which the power of his own present among the gods of the Tushita heavens, assuming the last existence, the entry into the womb, being born, leaving the world, sitting on the seat of enlightenment.

[47:19]

In other words, what's a samadhi through which you reenact Buddha's lifetime? Birth. I mean womb, birth, preschool, and so on. What's the samadhi through which the power of profound wisdom, the turning of the wheel of dharma? What's the samadhi through which the power of skillful means, which manifests? What's the samadhi through which the bodhisattva manifests the power of skillful means and entry into nirvana? What's the samadhi through which the bodhisattva manifests through the power of concentration, the distribution of relics? What's the samadhi through which the bodhisattva manifests through the power of previous aspiration, the disappearance of the good dharma? What then, O Bhagavat, is the samadhi through which the bodhisattva manifests such virtues

[48:27]

without definitively entering into pari-nirvana?" That was the question which this bodhisattva asked. When I read this question I thought, I did think actually, I thought, boy, that's a very good question. And then I kind of felt confirmed because the Buddha thought it was a good question too. As a matter of fact, the Buddha thought it was a really amazingly good question. And a thought crosses my mind, do you have a question like that? Do I have a question like that? And if you do actually have a question like that, you're kind of tuning in to not quite maybe the samadhi,

[49:29]

but you're tuning in to this bodhisattva who actually has a question like that, who actually is wondering about, well, what kind of a samadhi would be able to make this possible for us? It's getting close to the time when the kitchen has to leave, so I thought I just might mention that the next section of the sutra is basically the Buddha saying, kind of expressing his delight in this question. The Buddha is very happy to hear Dhridhamati's question. He thinks it's a very, very good question, just like I did. And again, I ask myself, do I want to ask that question? And if I do, I probably should go back and read it again and see if I understand the question and all the concerns he's bringing up here about the life of a bodhisattva.

[50:41]

And I think that there's... Again, a little bit of resistance or laziness might come up from somewhere to somebody at some time about, isn't this like just too much to be concerned about this kind of stuff? But it seems to me that this is part of what's entailed by actually aspiring to supreme perfect enlightenment for the welfare of all beings that you're actually there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff to think about and to consider how certain things will get worked out and like the big one is how do you realize nirvana without you know how do you realize nirvana without entering into nirvana?

[51:53]

How do you understand and realize nirvana without getting, without grasping or seeking anything? And how can grasping and seeking realize nirvana? And the bodhisattvas are interested in this because nirvana is very helpful. in the process of helping beings, and yet we don't want to, like, go and find this really good thing and then, like, forget the reason we went to find it. It was not for ourselves, but so we could use it to help others. Sometimes, you know, I don't know what, Maybe somebody needs an operation and it's really expensive and so you go ask somebody for money for the operation and they give it to you and then all of a sudden you've got $300,000 in your hand and you forget that you got this money to help this other person get the operation.

[52:55]

Or maybe a better example would be not just the money, but suddenly what the money can give you is right there. Or what the money could buy is right there. And then you kind of like get distracted from the reason for getting the money in the first place. How can bodhisattva, what is the samadhi that realizes these tremendous virtues and doesn't get distracted by them when they're realized. What is this samadhi? And that's what this sutra's about, is to tell us about this samadhi, is to help us see what it is that these bodhisattvas are concentrated on, this way of being that has some of these qualities. Now the Buddha's going to tell more, but this is what Dhridhamati was wondering about. What kind of a samadhi would would help a bodhisattva manifest and penetrate and realize all this stuff.

[54:05]

I think it's maybe okay, even though the kitchen left, to tell you what samadhi that is. It's no secret anymore. The Samadhi is called the Sharangama Samadhi. It's called the Samadhi of the concentration on the way the Bodhisattva progresses on the path of the Bodhisattva. And then Buddha tells about the Samadhi. So tomorrow I'll read to you about what the Buddha said about the Samadhi. In the meantime, do you have some practice? Is there practice available to you? Anybody? Everybody got a practice available?

[55:23]

Great. Well, let's practice then those practices that we have available. And I hope those practices make us more ready to receive the teachings of this sutra. It may be possible that if we if we meet whatever comes with a great non-seeking, non-grasping body and mind and heart, that we'll be able to receive the teachings of this sutra, that the sutra may be able to penetrate us and benefit all beings.

[56:28]

May our intention... So when you notice somebody suffering, there was some openness there. When you notice somebody's anxious, if you hear it, you say, oh, there's, oh, anxiety. And right there is very, very helpful. Some people, whatever their condition is, may, although it changes moment by moment, it may go on for a long time. And nobody can do anything about it, really. But after it passes, oftentimes when they look back, maybe people tried many things during the time of depression or anxiety, and nothing helped. sometimes, but when they looked back they said, the thing that helped me most, although it didn't change the situation, was that so-and-so loved me and listened to me during that time.

[57:40]

So one of my often repeated I don't know what verbal expressions is, comes from a time when I was doing a workshop at Tassajara and a woman came to me and she said that there was a woman at Tassajara who had recently lost her husband and was depressed. And she asked this woman if she could talk to her about her loss and depression. And the woman said to me, I don't know what to do. And I said, well, just hold her hand and listen to her. So then this woman came back to me a day or so later, and she said, I did what you told me. I stayed close and didn't do anything. So she reworked what I said, I thought, into a not very nice way of putting it.

[58:51]

Just be close to the suffering person, but don't do anything. Because all suffering comes from a lack of closeness, you know, from the separation. So if you can model, if you can be willing to be close to her or him, they can see, they can feel that and they can see that you're willing to do that. So if you're willing to be with their pain, with your sense of their pain and with your discomfort with their pain, and you're okay, maybe they could try it. Not to mention if you seem to actually be kind of enjoying it. It isn't that you're enjoying their pain, but you're enjoying being with them in their pain. So you can imagine some people that you love who are suffering, and you probably wouldn't be happy that they were suffering, but if they were suffering, you might be happy that you got to be with them when they were suffering. You might not have wanted to miss that time, especially if it was, for example, our last time.

[60:04]

I grew up in a culture where if somebody was dying or having a hard time, you were kept away from them. If these young people were kept away from them, leave them alone. Don't expose yourself to that dying or whatever it is. So a lot of people during those years missed out on being with people who were suffering, and they really missed that. There was a big gap in their life that they couldn't be with somebody when they were going through painful transitions where there's anxiety and depression and grieving. But all you've got to do is be there, basically. That's where you start. Once you're there, something may come up. Like they may say, well, what do you think I should do about blah, blah? And you say, are you asking me for advice? But first of all, I think just listen to the cries.

[61:07]

And then if you hear a cry, you sometimes maybe say, did I just hear you cry? Was that you? Was that a cry? And then maybe they'll say, no, it was a burp. So get the information and then try to relax with it. Yes, Vernon? You mentioned when you're having anxiety, it's sometimes best to not be repressive. Talk about it a lot. And I agree with that. But I find that there are certain people that it seems to be healthy not to talk about it around. People that I sense a type of energy, a tightness to their body, a tightness to their muscles, I just feel around them. And it seems to be associated with people who crave talking about other people's anxieties in such a way that you end up feeling more anxious after you've talked to them than before.

[62:18]

They really crave talking about it and say, don't you get terrible about this? Boy, you should feel really bad about this. That sort of stuff. I've learned to know when in the presence of a person like that, and I'm just polite to them. I say, no, things look fine. And yet other people, it really works to talk to them about my anxiety. So it's not just if it's a person I'm going to talk to about their anxiety. I do discriminate, you might say. I understand. Yes? Well, could you give an example? So what if you noticed a tendency, what if you felt, what if you noticed that you felt that there was not much love inside you and so you noticed that you were like reaching out

[63:45]

to get love. So that's another way to... I kind of said that during the talk, that when you feel like you're a separate self, then there's a tendency to feel like love is out there. And when you feel like you're a separate self and love is out there, of course, you basically are seeking it. So if you notice this seeking, and let's say you want to change yourself, You want to change that seeking pattern. Okay? So what should you do? Right? Well, again, there it is. To seek to change that pattern, all right, would be a reiteration of the pattern. So trying to be concerned of changing yourself or improving yourself or developing yourself All right? It's antithetical to positive evolution. So being concerned with your own enlightenment, your own development, is something to like be expansive about and communicate about.

[65:02]

But not to expand or communicate in order to facilitate your seeking, but to become free of your seeking. So if it's something painful, obviously painful, you play with it. You expand, accept, communicate, and let go. If it's seeking to be a better person, do the same thing. And you'll be free of the seeking. But if you're seeking to get rid of seeking, of course, it doesn't work. And a lot of people, it's actually some kind of evolution to notice that you're seeking. That's actually good. But in noticing you're seeking, noticing you're seeking is not seeking. That's just being aware. Noticing you're seeking, you're not shrinking back too much from the seeking.

[66:04]

You're just saying, oh, I'm seeking. Then to try to seek to get rid of the seeking is shrinking back from the seeking. It's shrinking back from the seeking, causes you to seek more. Shrinking back from anything that you're aware of and being over here and it over there makes you yearn for things more. So basically, to some extent, I would say, if you notice you're seeking, say, hey, here's me seeking here. I'm the seeker. Seek, seek, seek, seek. I'm doing that. You're fine. You know? So you're expressing it. You're communicating it. You're open to it. And in that, you're free. In the next moment, some more seeking may arise, but the same practice with it. And you will evolve positively, but positive evolution happens in a context of not being concerned about your positive evolution. She said, would you be able to speak about how to cultivate the playfulness, particularly in a situation of pain, oh the pain, oh the pain,

[67:35]

And she said it. She said how to be playful. She just modeled it. That's how. You did it right there. Oh, the pain. Oh, the pain. I mean, I got problems. I'm having hard times. I'm in pain. Me, pain. Pain, pain, pain, pain. And somebody calls you stupid. Stupid? You call me stupid? Me, stupid? I'm stupid. Yeah, me, stupid. I'm like the dumbest here. I'm like, I'm pretty stupid. So anyway, you answered it. You got it right there. Well, say it's heavy then. It feels so heavy. It's like the gravity. This is really heavy, heavy, heavy. Rather than, okay, it's heavy, but I'm going to be light. Get rid of the heaviness.

[68:36]

I'm not going to say anything about it. Nobody's going to know. I feel heavy. How are you feeling? Fine. But I agree, there's some... You don't want to feed those people that Vernon doesn't want to feed. You don't want to tell them that you're feeling heavy. So you go, I'm not going to tell you that I'm feeling heavy. You're never going to find out about how heavy I feel. Go ahead. Try to find out. Well, how heavy do you feel? You've got to pay to find out. How much? How much you got? Are you talking to me, Brad? Now I am. Yes? How do I deal with it?

[69:39]

Looking in the mirror is really good. Face creams. Hang out with blind people. Cat? She said, you can also consider the alternative to aging. The alternative to aging, which is? Dying?

[70:54]

Staying young? Or dying young? Oh, that's the alternative to aging? There was a very short article in Morning Maturity about a writer who was in Singapore, in Malaysia, and she was seeking information, you know, and she was a Thailand. When they first met her, of course, she's American, you know, she had long long died and whatever. They sort of were quite aloof from her. Then somewhere along the line, they asked her how old she was. And she said something about, oh, I have daughters of that old. How old are you, she asked a young man. So I have a daughter who is older than that. They said, how old are you?

[71:57]

She said, 59. And all of a sudden, their whole perspective about this person changed. They would be rebelled. They had their babies. They built around her. They gave her all the information she wanted. So her immediate response is, oh, when I go back, I'm not going to dye my hair. I'm going to respect my age and who I am. And also the alternative is to live in a culture where old age is revered and respected and loved. Yes, so one way to deal with aging is leave America. they'll love to see you wherever you go come on old people we love you come on are you staying playful are you staying playful me no no Is that a theme I'm getting?

[73:09]

Is it a theme you're getting? I'm getting some theme. Are you getting a theme? Why? It feels like you're staying playful. You think so? That's the theme? Staying playful. Well, I hope not. I don't want to stay playful. That's not playful. So, you know, if I'm staying playful, I'm really sorry to hear that. Too bad. But yes. I remember several years back reading an article that was talking about when we're feeling something and someone asks us, how are you? And we say, fine. And we're really not fine. But it actually takes a toll physically on us. And I know we don't read the details of it, but something happens terribly when we deny it.

[74:11]

I guess the price of a lie on a certain rock actually creates some kind of response in our brain that's not a happy chemical response. So sometimes when I don't want to share for whatever reason, I just say, oh, I'm full. Or if you don't feel like at the time it's appropriate to say what's going on, I think it's better to think of something Yeah, it's like... Another way to put it, it's the price of avoiding intimacy. that that hurts us in some ways.

[75:13]

Every person we avoid being intimate with hurts us a little bit, throws us off in a little bit, blocks our energy a little bit, or a lot, but at least a little bit. And then if we do it repeatedly, it adds up. So by the end of some period of time, it's really like noctus for a loop after being done over and over. I've heard that on a psychological level or intellectual level, there's a thing that also gives a physical response. Uh-huh. Yeah, there's a physical response, which we call that having outflows. Your energy kind of leaks out of you. when you turn away from what's happening and try to do something with it. So turning away from it or trying to control it are ways to further disturb the situation.

[76:21]

So when we meet people and they say, how are you, maybe we can say, well, What are you really asking? What are you driving at? Yes? Yes? Yes? I'd like to return to the topic of being with people who are feeling a lot of anxiety because they're very ill and dying. Yes? I usually just feel afraid staying close. And at some point, I'm in a place where I start feeling pain myself. Yes. And it's like, I don't want to cry, or I'm feeling it. Yes. I get caught between wanting to suppress that, and wanting to adapt.

[77:26]

Is that this person, or is that me? And you can't hear the separation yet. And I'm just wondering, in trying to stay grateful and be authentic, What do you have to say about that particular event, when you face intense anxiety, when you yourself are overwhelmed with the suffering? Well, it somewhat depends on how the other person is doing with his or her anxiety. Let's say they're anxious, but that they're facing it pretty well. In that case, you still might feel some anxiety yourself. And that anxiety, I would again suggest, the root of it, on your part anyway, is that you feel some separation between yourself and this other anxious person.

[78:32]

So then that's your anxiety to deal with. So if they're doing a good job dealing with their anxiety, which may have the same root as yours, plus in addition they may be dealing with the anxiety of themself or their subject and the object of death. So they may have the anxiety of sense of separation from you and sense of separation from death. They have these two kinds of anxiety. you may be more concerned with your anxiety of being separate from their suffering or them. So both of you are feeling anxious, somewhat different maybe types of anxieties, but if they're doing well with theirs, let's say, facing it, trying to open to it, trying to communicate it, and maybe they are communicating it to you, you feel good about that, but you still may feel some anxiety, some subtle anxiety or strong anxiety of some sense of separation from them. Now, if they're doing well with theirs and they're communicating theirs to you, you maybe could say, well, you could communicate yours to them, yours to her or yours to him.

[79:47]

Because if they're facing theirs, they can have a chance that they could hear about yours. So you're both communicating, you're both settling into and working with your anxiety together. You're helping a person who is in this situation and they're helping you. So you're helping each other that way of communicating both opening to yours and the other's anxiety and communicating. So that seems like pretty good. Now if the person's not facing theirs, and you feel like you're facing yours, and you may not feel that you can communicate to them about yours because you may feel like, well, they're not facing theirs. If I communicate, maybe it's too much for them, you might feel. So then you think, well, how should I take care of the situation now if I can't really, if I don't feel like I can talk to them about

[80:54]

It's hard to say what would come at that time when you ask that question, but I think it's a good question. At this point, you're questioning how to proceed. Maybe you can... You might try something, though. You might say, well, maybe I'll ask them a question. Like, I might ask them if I can ask them a question. Maybe they say yes. And you say, how are you feeling? And then maybe they tell you. And maybe then you have some question about what they said, because maybe what they said they felt you didn't quite understand. So you maybe think, have some question to ask to try to find out more, to understand them better, what they're saying. And as they tell you more, then they start to face their anxiety more, then you may, feel like since now they're facing it and now they're having feelings, then you could ask them if they'd like to hear about how you're feeling.

[82:07]

And you could share it because they've started to face theirs. So it's possible to open up that way. To carefully inquire, you get a better sense of where they're at. Once they feel like you're that you're understanding them, then it's not so difficult for them maybe to hear about what's going on with you, if that would help you be more present in a situation and thereby join their presence in the situation. So this way you can mutually help each other if they're willing to answer your questions and let you find out about how they're feeling. And none of this has anything to do with giving advice yet. You're just trying to find out what the weather situation is. That's all you have to do is understand each other and relax, and that's the environment of creativity. And then things can transform. But you've got to really stay present, though, to feel all that's going on with you and then gently inquire what's going on over there.

[83:19]

Like you may have a good sense of what's going on, but you don't know whether they have a sense of what's going on unless you ask. So you ask. And then when you find out, oh, you know quite a bit. That's interesting. That's great. And they also sense by your questions that you're kind of like understanding that they feel quite a bit because you ask questions that go with what they're revealing to you. And if you ask questions which don't go with what they're revealing to you, then they tell you and you can retune your questions, which reflect, your questions even can reflect that you understand them pretty well or not so well. Like, are you saying blah, blah? And they say, hmm. No. Or, yeah. Or, yes. You got it. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And somehow, you even helped them see more clearly. Yes and yes. And yes. Yes. Yes. Or that, or however you want to think of it.

[84:27]

of feeling stress, of pain, of your pain, others' pain, that is called dance. I mean, I'm sure everyone has heard that. But when you're dancing, you don't think of your next step. You're really in the dance. The rhythm takes you. You're moving without your conscious mind. And you just absorb it and feel this. You know, I think that's what you're saying about pray, about interacting with people. Think about what you're going to say. Think about the next step. You just move with the rhythm. Yeah. Yes? How do you act relate to people who seem to be impatient with your pain? Well, like dancing, right?

[85:44]

Do you want to dance? And they say, maybe they say, no. You might say, well, it might be fun. They say, no, I don't want to. I say, okay, if you don't want to hear about my suffering, if you don't want to know about me, I guess that's okay. You give them a chance, maybe. That's very nice of you to offer them a chance to be with you. But if they don't want to dance with you, I would say, okay, maybe later. If you really care about them, actually, if you really care about them, you know that it would be good for them to care about you. So actually, it is like you have a gift to give to everybody, and the gift you have to give everybody is you. And if they don't want you, if you care about them, you know that that's something they need to learn how to do.

[86:49]

That would be good for them to care about you. It's good for everybody to care about you. So anybody who doesn't care about you needs some help. But they sort of have to, the timing is very important, you know. Even Buddha, some people don't care about. Buddha could walk up to some, some great Buddha could walk up to people and say, would you like to talk to me? And they say, no. I got other things to do. Say, okay. But that Buddha wants them to eventually care about the Buddha. So eventually, you want that person to care about you, whatever you are. You want them to care about whatever you are. But today may not be the day for them. So let them wait. Offer yourself, your situation to someone who is more ready to There are people who are ready. And so it's their turn.

[87:50]

Yes? Well, basically, again, as I said, awareness consciousness is a subject. Consciousness has objects. Consciousness knows things. So cognition or awareness or consciousness is also called knowing. And we know objects. We know objects. Things that are known are called objects. So the word subject refers to that which has objects. So For all practical purposes, practical purposes, our actual life of knowing, we have subjects knowing objects or subjective cognitions of objects.

[88:57]

That's the basic situation. However, there can also be ideas that two things which never exist apart from each other are separate. Like you can have the idea that a mother and a daughter are separate. But you can't separate mother and daughter because you never have a daughter without a mother. Of course, sometimes you have mothers without daughters, they could have sons. But basically, mother and child are inseparable. You can have a child without a mother? No. You can have a mother without a child? No. They're inseparable. But they're not the same. Cognition and objects aren't the same. You can discriminate between them. So you can have one thing that has discriminant multiplicities, but we also have this idea, and one of the ideas can be an object which we can cognize.

[90:03]

And the idea is that these things are actually separate, that these interdependent things that don't arise separately have separate existence. That's an idea we can have. And that idea is very powerful. It is a powerful thing for an animal to come up with an idea like that. And humans came up with that idea. So having the idea of a self, a separate subject from what is known, gives you a certain advantage over other beings that don't have that kind of idea. It's like a psychological or intellectual breakthrough. That gives you an advantage over other beings that don't have that idea. And so that idea is very useful. However, it causes pain. But its juice is so strong for reproductive purposes that the pain was worth it. Now we're trying to get over the sense of a separate other. We have this idea of other, we're trying to get over it. The whole world's struggling with this.

[91:08]

All these wars that are going on now are wars of struggling with and showing how the sense of other is painful and the source of cruelty and so on. Is that enough of an expansion for now? Yes, I think we have more questions. Okay, good. Let's see, what time is it? Okay, anything else? Yes? Well, again, I wouldn't say that somebody's anxiety causes my anxiety. I would say somebody else's anxiety is something I can know about. And if I think that their anxiety is separate from mine, or that their anxiety is out there, separate from me, that's really the... As long as that sense of separation is there, even someone's happiness can make me anxious.

[92:15]

Anything you feel separate from, you feel anxious about. So where there's somebody's anxiety, somebody's pain, somebody's happiness, the root of the anxiety is that I feel like your happiness is separate from mine. You know, like something good happens to you and I feel like that's separate from me, I can feel anxious about that. Like, is she going to become even more successful now? I mean, is she going to get all the success? You know? What about me? What about my success? She's getting it all. I can feel anxious about that. But if you have a very light sense of separation between someone or almost no sense of separation and they're happy or they're anxious, you're not anxious about their anxiety. You're in love with that person. Love is mainly what's happening. And you happen to be in love with someone who's anxious.

[93:20]

So you don't have anxiety because you don't feel separate. you have love because you don't feel separate. Their life is your life, you're fine. Their life is not your life, you're anxious. So we have equipment to think that other people's lives are not our life, therefore we're anxious. Therefore we're stressed. To the extent that we feel other people's lives are not separate, we're closer and closer to freedom from anxiety.

[93:52]

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