Tassajara and they invited me to give a talk and someone told me that he overheard some of the students at Tassajara talking to each other and one of them asked the other one what is his teaching, or what is his teaching like, something like that. And one of them said, oh, he just says the same thing over and over. But it's good. So again I say that the zazen, the sitting meditation that I'm talking about, But it's not just the cultivation of tranquility or concentration.

[01:12]

The zazen I'm talking about is totally culminated enlightenment. And yesterday I brought up a story, I brought up more than one story, but about two of the very important ancestors in the history of the Zen movement. I was going to say Zen school, but The Zen movement is so many schools, many schools of Zen, many lineages of Zen. But two masters who were really appreciated by all the practitioners within the Zen movement are Nanyue Huairang and his

[02:30]

most notable successor, Matsu, Daoist. So in the usual story, there was an occasion where that his successor is always sitting in meditation. The way Dogen Zenji tells the story is that after Matsu had intimately received the mind seal, after that, after he had become a successor to his teacher, he was always sitting in meditation. in the usual record that you find in the Zen history books, he was always sitting after he received the transmission of the mind seal.

[03:47]

Maybe Dogen Zenji wants to emphasize that after the Buddha mind seal, then we are always practicing meditation. Before we receive it, we may do it occasionally, like during a sesshin. And even during sesshin, maybe we do it just when we're in the zendo, And maybe when we're in the Zendo, we just do it. Some of the time we're in the Zendo. Other times we have more important things to do. And the practice of totally culminated enlightenment. But after receiving the mind seal, then we're always practicing enlightenment. Maybe that's why Dogen Zenji says that after he received the Buddha mind seal, he was always sitting in meditation.

[04:59]

After he received the Buddha Mind Seal, he was always practicing enlightenment. He was always practicing Buddha's compassion and wisdom. He never forgot after he received the Buddha Mind Seal. So one could imagine, well we we practice enlightenment today, and maybe we practice tomorrow, and we practice the next day, and then maybe someday, after practicing enlightenment for a long period of training, we will get a big encouragement, we will get a transmission from our teacher, and then after that, we'll be practicing the practice of enlightenment. Because we can practice enlightenment today.

[06:08]

We don't have to wait for Buddha Mind Seal to be transmitted. We can practice enlightenment today. Every moment today we can practice. And again, if we continue such a practice for a long time, the Buddhas will come and they will say, Now you can be an ancestor in this practice. So here we have two ancestors. One who's sitting all the time and his teacher says, worthy one, virtuous one, What is your intention sitting there in meditation?

[07:14]

I don't remember exactly, but I heard this story many times, and I don't remember if when I first heard it or second heard it, if I thought, what is the teacher intending by asking the student of his student's intention? What's the teacher suggesting by asking the student What are you intending to do sitting in meditation? So here we have this teacher up the Buddha way And he seems to be spending his time asking this student who's sitting in meditation, he's spending his time asking, what are you intending to do sitting there?

[08:56]

And ask you, what are you intending to do sitting there? And you can ask yourself, what am I intending to do sitting here? People often say to me, I don't know what I'm intending to do sitting here. I don't know what I'm intending in sitting meditation. And then I often think, well, you may not know, but it is an ancient practice

[10:24]

practice of the old-time Buddhas. These old-time Buddhas are asking each other about what are you intending to do when you're sitting? If you know, fine. Really, that's great. But even if you know, remember that the ancestors who may also have known still questioned each other about it. In this case, maybe both of them knew very well what they were intending in sitting. But even though they knew, they still asked each other, or at least the teacher asked the student, what are you intending to do, worthy disciple, in sitting? The student could have said, what are you intending to do, asking me? Or, what do you intend to do, teacher, when you sit?

[11:27]

There's the stories like that, too. I told you that one yesterday, too. Right? When Yao Shan... The monk came and asked the teacher, what are you intending, what are you thinking when you're sitting? Sometimes the student asks the teacher, what are you intending, what are you thinking? Sometimes the teacher asks the students, what are you intending, what are you thinking? Sometimes the teachers ask themselves. They sit on their... What am I intending to do here? Sometimes the student asks themselves, what am I intending to do here? Sometimes the students go and tell the teacher, Teacher, I'd like to tell you what I'm intending to do when I sit. So this is like... Part of the practice of enlightenment seems to be asking what you're intending to do when you're sitting.

[12:33]

Or, another way to put it is, part of the practice of enlightenment is to ask yourself, when you're practicing enlightenment, what are you intending to do? And you might say, well, that's simple. When I'm practicing enlightenment, I'm intending to practice enlightenment. And if you said that to me, I would say, yeah, to me. And just because you know doesn't mean you don't ask yourself questions. And just because you know someone's a very good practitioner doesn't mean you don't ask them questions. And just because you don't know doesn't mean you don't ask questions. Once again, it looks to me like the practice of enlightenment of the ancestors is to ask questions about the practice of enlightenment.

[13:39]

is the practice of enlightenment. Worthy disciple, what are you intending to do as you sit there practicing enlightenment? A great bouquet of questions could arise now and the ancestors demonstrate a great bouquet of questions that can be asked about the practice of enlightenment. I don't know if there's a million recorded questions or a billion recorded questions, but aside from the ones that are recorded, imagine how many actually occurred in history that weren't recorded. How many times did teachers and disciples ask each other, What are you doing?

[14:43]

What are you intending? What is this practice of enlightenment? And so many aspects we could ask. Is the practice something in addition to the enlightenment? Is the sitting something in addition to the practice? Is the sitting something in addition to the enlightenment? Is the sitting in addition to the intention? of sitting, of practicing enlightenment, and so on. I'm laughing for two reasons. One is that it occurs to me, hey, if you're practicing enlightenment, there's no shortage of questions. But sometimes when we're practicing enlightenment, we get a little sleepy.

[15:44]

We get tired sometimes. And we think, geez, I don't have any questions. Didn't occur to me to ask, what am I doing? Didn't occur to me to ask you what you're doing. Didn't occur to me to ask, what is the practice of enlightenment? But now that I'm here and I'm awake, it does occur to me. And the other thing I was chuckling about was a story which I've often told about back in 1971, the last year of Suzuki Roshi's life. Somebody rang the wake-up bell early for a session. I don't remember. One of the days of session, somebody rang the wake-up bell early at the city center in San Francisco.

[16:46]

And then the wake-up bell person realized it was early and then went up and down the halls telling people, it's early, go back to bed. And I was the director of the building, so I assigned myself the room right next to my teacher so I could see his comings and goings. And shortly after people went back to bed, including me, but I wasn't completely back in bed, and my door was open, I saw... trotting to the zendo with his attendant. And I didn't say, Roshi, go back to bed. I could ask myself a lot of questions now about that moment, but... to make a long story short, he went to the Zendo and sat for a while and there was just like maybe one student there with him and his attendant.

[17:49]

And then he waited for a while and nobody came. I guess to wake up all persons to bed. So he didn't. But then he left the Zendo and went back to his room and then We started the whole thing again. This time, almost everybody went to the Zendo. And when we got there, I don't remember what he said exactly, but something like, you people went back to bed? And then he said, what do you think we're doing? What are you doing here? And then he gave us all a big encouragement. Each one of us got a little pat from his stick. Sometimes when we're sitting, we might get bored.

[19:02]

You might think we have better things to do than sit here quietly. And I'm not trying to entertain you, but in fact, now you have something entertaining to do when you're sitting. For a dull moment from now on, you can ask yourself the questions of the tradition. You can ask yourself, what am I doing? And when you say that, this is Buddha talking. This is the ancestors' talk. Because they asked this question, not necessarily in English, but they said, what am I doing? Or what are you doing? Or what are you intending in this period of meditation? You can ask it in the beginning. In the middle. What am I intending in this period of sitting? Okay. I'm not telling you the answer to your question, which will be about yourself.

[20:17]

What I'm talking about is totally culminated enlightenment. So if I ask myself at the beginning of the period, what are you intending in this period of meditation, I probably would say totally culminated enlightenment. I'm talking about benefiting all living beings. That's what I'm intending by this period. This period is for... that's the purpose of it. I'm not saying I can do that. I'm saying that's what I'm intending by this sitting. That's what totally culminated enlightenment is. It's benefiting all living beings. benefiting all living beings, is totally culminating enlightenment. You could have another intention. You could say, I intend to become conscious. That's a wholesome intention too.

[21:23]

Not, I should say, totally in accord with totally culminated enlightenment. I intend to realize deep tranquility and to give it away once it's attained. I intend to give it as a gift to all beings. I intend to realize total freedom and make it a gift to all beings. There's many ways to say it. I intend to not hit my neighbors. I intend to not sneeze. Lots of possibilities. I'm just pointing out that it looks to me Like the ancestors were wondering all the time about what they were doing when they were sitting. And their sitting was enlightened. And their enlightenment questioned their enlightenment. I am attempting to develop a great enthusiasm about the practice of enlightenment.

[22:36]

I am trying to encourage great enthusiasm about the ancestors' meditation. Enthusiasm that our meditation, that my meditation and your meditation would be the ancestors' meditation, and that our meditation would bring the ancestors' meditation, the Buddha's meditation, alive today in this hall in after saying all this maybe I'll remember or put it another way maybe I'll never forget to question myself when I sit and ask myself what is your intention sitting here and hopefully or I wish that when I ask that question all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas come and support the practice

[24:02]

will lift the practice up and support the practice of totally culminated enlightenment. I want to stop asking this question, but now maybe I can move on to somebody's response. Whose response? The response of Matsu. a teacher who was blessed with 139 enlightened disciples. That means not just 139 disciples who practiced enlightenment, but 139 disciples who practiced enlightenment for a long time with him. 139 disciples that he formally gave the Buddha Mind Seal to. 139 transmissions of the lineage.

[25:13]

This is Matsu. And when his teacher asked him, what are you intending to do? Matsu said, I'm intending to make a Buddha. In the Zazen Shin, that's the essay called Zazen Shin, after talking about the monk asking Yaoshan what he needed to do when he was sitting, and Yaoshan saying, I'm thinking of not thinking. After that story, Just before bringing up this story, Dogen Zenji says that, be it known for studying the Buddha way, the establishment of the means of investigation is pursued by way of sitting meditation.

[26:36]

In the Buddha way, the path of investigation is pursued in sitting meditation. And the essential point of its standard, the standard of the sitting, is the understanding that there is a practice of a Buddha that does not seek to make a Buddha. And so I would say here now we have an introduction to this story where the great ancestor says, I'm intending to make a Buddha. And before Dogen tells this story, he says, the standard of sitting, the standard of sitting Buddha is not to seek to make a Buddha. And I feel like

[27:43]

Dogen Sanji is saying, okay, now I'm going to tell you a story. Before I tell you the story, I want to activate your sense of paradox. I want you to approach this story with some sophistication. I want you to open to paradox before you hear this story. I want you to open to the paradox of human life and open to the paradox of the practice of an enlightened life. So I'm telling you the standard of sitting meditation is not to seek to make a Buddha. And I don't mean to relieve the paradox or take away the tension, but I just point out that there is a practice of intending to make a Buddha without seeking to make a Buddha.

[28:58]

To intend to do something without seeking anything. A lot of people know how to not do something and then feel like they're not seeking. A lot of people know how not to go to the grocery store and not seek anything from the grocery store. But it's more difficult and dynamic to go to the grocery store not seeking any groceries. In other words, to go to the grocery store as a practice of enlightenment. And now to enter into a story about making Buddhas without seeking to make a Buddha. Striving to practice without seeking anything. There's a paradox here.

[30:02]

He says further, Since the practice of a Buddha does not make a Buddha, the practice of a Buddha is just a Buddha. Buddha doesn't make Buddha. Buddha is Buddha. And Buddha is the practice of Buddha. So the practice of Buddha doesn't make the Buddha. But the practice of Buddha intends to make a Buddha. Buddhas do not make Buddhas, but Buddhas intend to make Buddhas. You do not make yourself, but you intend to make yourself if you're a Buddha. You intend to do something that you can't do. Since the practice of Buddhas is not to make a Buddha, it is the realization of ultimate truth.

[31:22]

Since the practice of the Buddhas is not to make a Buddha, it is the Genjo Koan. The embodied Buddha does not make a Buddha. This is a This is a setup with which to hear this story. I'm intending to make a Buddha. I would say, here we have somebody who is intending to make a Buddha who's not seeking anything. He's a happy camper. He's a happy... Buddha ancestor who's Buddha's all day long and is seeking nothing Buddha's intend to make Buddha's and there's no seeking in their practice they're always thinking how can I help people enter the Buddha way and become Buddha's and they wish this they want this and they seek nothing

[32:44]

Please recognize that Daji's words, Daji is Matsu, Daji, Matsu, what he's saying is that sitting meditation is inevitably intending to make a Buddha. So the teacher is asking this person, what are you intending to do? And he says, I'm intending to make a Buddha. But he's also saying that whenever we sit, we inevitably are intending to make a Buddha. This is, in a sense, when I say this, this sounds to me like a great compliment to everybody.

[34:06]

You may have other ideas in your head about what you're intending to do, but inevitably, unfailingly, in the end, what you're intending to do by sitting is to make a Buddha. What you're intending is to make the Buddha, make the benefit of all beings. That's what you're really inevitably intending. You may or may not have come to this realization, but now you're being told that when you come to this realization, inevitably there is intending to make a Buddha. So once again, when the teacher says, what are you intending to do? He says, I'm intending to make a Buddha, but he could also be saying, teacher, whenever we sit in meditation, we're all going to make a Buddha, so I am too. Further, it is suggested that to make a Buddha is prior to making a Buddha.

[35:35]

But in the text it has making a Buddha in quotes. This is prior to what we call making a Buddha. It is after what we call making a Buddha. And it is at the very same moment as making a Buddha. Now one might think, well, could you please take those quotation marks away, because that makes life more complicated for me. I think it does. It's, you know, one way to understand it is that, is again giving us some kind of like, helping us be a little bit more sophisticated here, and realize that human beings are linguistic creatures.

[36:52]

And that when we think, I want to make a Buddha, or I intend to make a Buddha, we're intending something linguistic. We might wish, no, I don't want to intend just the words, make a Buddha, I want to intend the real Buddha, or I'm just going to forget the whole thing. It's in quotation marks. He could say that the ancestor, Daji, Matsu, he's intending to make a Buddha after a Buddha's already been made, namely his own himself.

[38:00]

But also he's before making a Buddha and he's at the very moment of making a Buddha. It has now been suggested in this world that at the time of sitting meditation is inevitably the intention, the thinking, the striving to make a Buddha.

[39:09]

And human beings might agree with that. They might say, oh yeah, I think that's true. But I don't see that I inevitably intend to make a Buddha sitting here. And I say, but do you hear that an ancestor is telling you that inevitably there is the intention to make a Buddha in sitting meditation? And you might say, well, that might be Dogen Zenji's sitting meditation, but not mine. And then if you say it, then I still might say, well, what is your sitting meditation? And you might say, well, inevitably, my sitting meditation is the intention to make a Buddha.

[40:12]

Things have changed for me lately. I've now joined this ancestral tradition. I align myself with this kind of practice. Now, the next thing that happens is the famous tile polishing, but I think I'll bring that up tomorrow. That's another big hit of paradox. But maybe you've had enough paradoxes, maybe you've entered into enough tension. It seems to me that this person who we call Dogen Zenji, or our ancestor Dogen, it seems like he was really into paradox and really into tension.

[41:35]

His disciple, Suzuki Roshi, named me Tenshin. And my name, Tenshin, has a lot of tension in it. It does. One day he gave me the name. He said, your name is Tenshin Zenki. Your name will be Tenshin. And Tenshin means Reb is Reb. And people will have a problem with that. but there's no way to avoid it. Tension means, like, just, you know, Joseph being Joseph and Kayum being Kayum. That's what tension means. And there's a problem with that. Tension means ultimate reality.

[42:43]

Literally it means celestial truth or heavenly truth. And it has a technical Buddhist meaning which is ultimate truth or ultimate reality. And it has a colloquial Chinese meaning which means childlike. Like, who's that? That's Kathy. But it's naive in an endearing way. So the name has a lot of tension in it. And Dogen's teaching has a lot of tension in it. And that's why it's very difficult to translate Dogen and to get the tension over into English. Like a lot of the expressions can go two ways at once. It's hard to translate two ways at once. You know, like the word tension, the word tension, that expression, has tension in it.

[43:47]

It naturally has tension in it. It naturally has many meanings that kind of contradict each other. Another tension is in the jewel mirror samadhi, precious mirror samadhi, it says, turning away and touching are both wrong, for it is like a mass of fire.

[45:02]

How do you live with the paradox of turning away and touching are both wrong? This is the natural paradox of the Buddha way, the middle way. In the middle way, touching, things exist. It's wrong. Things don't exist. It's wrong. Turning away, things don't exist. Touching, things do exist. They're both off. They're both extremes. So we tend to go to one extreme or the other. There are... We don't wish to deny them, or perhaps we do wish to deny them. Yeah, we wish to deny them by taking one of them, rather than live in the middle and bear with, tolerate

[46:19]

between touching and turning away. To intend to make a Buddha without seeking anything, there's a lot of tension in seeking to do something. It's just intending to do something without seeking. So most people would either veer over to intending with seeking or I'm not going to seek. That's avoiding. But if you avoid this great fire of making a Buddha, you'll freeze to death. And if you seek while you're intending to make Some people say, I'd rather freeze to death than burn.

[47:26]

You know, I understand. Freezing to death, I've heard, is fairly comfortable if you succeed. When I swim in the ocean, I start getting really comfortable. The colder you get, the warmer you feel. I'm not, you know, after a certain point, you feel cold and then you get used to it. And then you start feeling warm. And you feel like, hey, I can stay here forever. When you first go in, you think, I can't stay here forever. This is really, my body is getting shocked by the cold. Then you get used to it. And then you think, oh, I can stay. Amazing. I can stay here forever. Do you have to get out really fast after that? People say who have returned from hypothermia that they were cold and then they kind of went to sleep and they were sitting by a warm fireplace with marshmallows and brandy.

[48:38]

But when they come back, coming out of hypothermia is really uncomfortable. But if they'd stayed a little longer they would have died. Whereas burning is, I haven't heard such pleasant stories about burning. But anyway, those are the two ways. It's less painful just to forget about making Buddha. I'm not going to intend to make a Buddha. Forget about saving all beings, you know. That might seem easier. That's just freezing to death. I don't care about anybody really. Nothing matters. But to go the other way, I do want to make a Buddha and then seek. That can really be painful too. And then you can flip from there back over to, well, I don't care anymore. Buddhism's too hard. Maintain the tension of questioning ourselves about what we're doing all the time, like the ancestors do.

[49:50]

Questioning your friends, too. The ancestors are walking together through the world. What are you intending to do on this walk today? What are you intending to do here in the kitchen? What are you intending to do here in the sitting? What's going on here now for you? And what's going on here for me? helps us tolerate the tension, the contradictions, the paradoxes of human life. So these practices are not superimposed upon human life. They're to bring out the natural paradoxes of our life. We want to be free and we want to control. But control and freedom oppose each other.

[50:52]

Some people say, well, freedom would be nice, but I'll take control. At least I know, if I do this, it will hurt me in this way. Like these children recently who are getting into cutting themselves, because then they're in control. They can make their own pain. I choose this path. So in a way, I'm free because I can choose the kind of pain I have. So you choose pain, you take control, and you get freedom. But also not. That's nice, but then what about control? I like freedom, but then what about control? Yikes! Well, how about in between? Got control?

[51:56]

Yeah, hi. Got freedom? Hi. How about in between? Control. What is freedom? What do I intend here? So this is already here. These issues are already in our life. This practice of sitting is to help us tolerate the normal oppositions and tensions of human existence. Dino asked me to sit on the higher seat today and I said, okay. So here I am. Up with you guys in the Tan, but above those on the floor. How you guys in the Tan feel about my elevated position? You okay with it? What? Why not sit at my seat?

[52:59]

Possibility to you. You like that better? I've done that. I've done that, haven't I? We can try that tomorrow. I'll sit over here. Oh, yeah. I'll sit over here. Only the abiding senior Dharma teacher sat over there? And my seat? No, your seat. No, I'm talking about this seat. This is for the non-abiding senior Dharma teacher. Hmm? It's a lot of work, but it's good work. It's good work if you can get it, and you can get it if you try. Please come.

[54:05]

You can stand if you like. My niece would be happy. Your niece would be happy too. Because I have a... She said stand. Okay. So Carolyn was saying that about the platforms, and I had some moments wondering... ...was putting two platforms up, But then there was another realization sitting in the back, the great gift of being able to see the total picture. And with this rope that Steph made so beautifully for you, almost three now, I think, the brown, Jizo in the back, the color of the flowers, it was a perfect aesthetic look of how the values all work together with the tonals.

[55:42]

And it was the most pleasant view for me to see in that robe, that koromo, those flowers, The light, the lighter light of your head and the darker. It was, it flashed that. And then the discriminating mind came in. I thought, well, maybe it should have a different drape on it to be perfect. This is my mind, Maya. As I sat back there, and then I thought, well, it matches the doshi bowing mat, and it picks up the color of your zagu. Now this was maybe in two minutes before we started chanting, but it was a lovely look. And then, we need a photograph of this. Where's Tayo? And the black robes and the color of Joanne's blue shirt and Ted's blue tone was like bright, but Rose's orange was a little off.

[56:58]

It was needed to move. And then you started talking about the mind seal, and I thought, well, you're a failure, Arlene. You've got this robe, and you better take it off right this moment. Because all I looked was Buddha mind. I'm not so crazy about that word as we have often talked about. I like the awakened mind quite well. And then I was thinking of something you said when you went to Yo-Yo Ma years ago. You shouldn't go see him because it was so beautiful and you liked it so much. And then I thought, oh, yes, I like this a lot. And I kept going back to how beautiful it looked in the back. And I liked hearing that better than when the language, linguistics part of you saying this way of using Buddha felt like, oh, I better get something.

[58:14]

And then I thought, oh, you saved yourself by the second part of when you said, well, this is wrong, that's wrong. So it's been a very powerful morning in your lecture today for the great failures that I have. So the ability to have a deeper honesty of those failures, so not holding on to them too much. But we still need a picture of this. It's the bottom line. It's the bottom line. Just the right tone for that little bit of fuchsia in the flowers, too. That simple? It is simple. Yes, it is. Well, beautifully simple, too.

[59:15]

Thank you. Excuse me for standing for all of you.

[60:48]

You're welcome to stand. If I thought about sitting totally culminated in enlightenment, I don't think I would ever be able to sit What's not too much? Just sit down. Is that just right for you? Actually the more I think about enlightenment, the less I think I know what it means.

[62:14]

The ancestors have spoken similarly. Like, for instance, when Buddhas are truly Buddhas, they don't think that they're Buddhas. However, they are continuously making Buddhas and going beyond Buddhas. But they don't think they're Buddhas, usually. Usually. And they don't know what Buddha is. No one knows what Buddha is. And Buddha doesn't understand that most thoroughly.

[63:24]

How is it helpful then to talk about it that way? The only way to get anybody to sit down. We shall see. A beautiful composition. I agree with Arlene. It's a lovely composition. And how does Manjushri look? I'm here to look with joy at Manjushri and his baby Shakyamuni and the beautiful arhats and bodhisattva incense burner. I'm sorry to be in the middle of your view. You're sorry to be in the middle? You're welcome to be in the middle.

[64:34]

Thank you. You're welcome. Do you have a sense of what Suzuki Roshi meant when he said that there was some problem?

[66:59]

Yes. Please say more. Human being is who they are. There's problems. For whom? Do you mean the other beings? You mean for other beings? Do you mean for the other beings? For both and for others. I was also wondering when I was listening to Arlene speak, I was wondering, I wonder if we are all equally ourselves. Do you feel that we're all equally ourselves? Yes, but I think many of us, the way we are, is that we're shrinking back from being ourselves or strangling ourselves.

[68:23]

We don't really live in a balanced way with ourselves. And that's who we are. But we're kind of used to that. And because of that habit, we're uncomfortable and unskillful. Is it better? Is it better for other people? Hold it good for her the way it's good for her. You said the word balance. That caught my attention. What would be a balanced way to be oneself? What's a balanced way for stuff to be stuff? Balanced way? Yeah. I'm thinking of other things. compliance or thinking of we give each other feedback.

[69:28]

We kind of report to each other the problems that we have with each other and kind of ask each other to adapt. Somebody would like me to be staffed a little differently. So I guess I'm interested in how you... further play with this or look at this balance between being oneself fully and watching the problems that it creates but not shrinking back? Well, I think you said it pretty well. Even if you're balanced, that will annoy some people. And... And if they're annoyed it doesn't mean that they'll tell you. So I think part of being fully ourselves is to recognize that we need help.

[70:35]

I think when we're fully ourselves we realize that we need help and by realizing that we need help and receiving the help that we're being given we find balance. So, when we're balanced, almost everything that comes is potentially unbalancing. Because we're balanced, and balance is very fragile. But still, everything that unbalances a balanced person is telling the person about their balance.

[71:45]

But sometimes balanced people don't. They have trouble welcoming an unbalancing offering. But almost everything that touches us when we're balanced disturbs our balance. But if you can accept all those disturbances and incorporate them into your unbalanced state your state which has become unbalanced by letting something change you. Balance. And then people will often have trouble with your balance and give you more feedback. And as soon as you receive the feedback, in some sense, you've got to give up your old balance and find a new one. So, when you're really yourself, you're balanced, when you're ready to balance to yourself and that draws a challenge that requests feedback and support.

[72:55]

And requesting feedback and support makes the balance more and more alive. Would it be appropriate to say to somebody, like there's the famous quote, Reb is Reb, but would it also be appropriate to say, Reb is Reb? Is it fair to accuse a person of not being themselves? Did you say, is it fair? Yeah. Well, if the person asks you to give them feedback like that, You know, it would be, what they ask for, it would be giving them a gift, which they ask for, but a lot of people did not want to have people come up to them and telling them that they're not being authentic, had they not asked for that. So in that case, it might not be helpful.

[74:00]

They might not be able to, they might not be ready. What came to mind just now is Houdini used to say that he would invite anybody to hit him in the stomach as hard as they wanted. And people did do that, and he was fine with that. But one time some hit him before they asked. if they could do it. And he didn't prepare himself properly for the hit and they ruptured his spleen, I think, and he got infected and he died of the complications of that. So bodhisattvas, I think, give feedback. They say, please give me feedback. I need your help to find the appropriate way in our relationship. bodhisattvas ask questions of their teacher, and they ask questions of their friends, inviting feedback.

[75:03]

But still, if someone says, well, he invited feedback, so I'll go give him some now, still, if you look at the stories, usually the person asks first, may I ask you a question, so the person gets ready. I ask the question and the person often, if the person says, yes, I'm ready, it often goes quite well. But if we give feedback even to someone who's asked for it previously or invited it previously, if they're not ready and we give it to them, they can fall off the tightrope or their body can get damaged because it's not ready to relax with our feedback. So it's And again, as I often mention, in tango, you invite the person from a distance just by looking at them and they signal back to you whether they accept your invitation.

[76:05]

You don't walk up to somebody and put them in a position of like, can I dance with you? It's from a long distance away. You just look. And if they don't look back at you, you don't go over. And if they look at you and then turn away, you don't go over. So it's, a lot of gentleness is necessary in the feedback process. And the feedback process involves giving up our balance. It means finding out where the other person is, then finding out where you're at. Giving up our balance together and finding a new balance. I appreciate that. And I don't feel somehow inclined to invite people to punch me in the stomach, but I do feel in touch with my need for others, all others, and welcome that in gentler ways.

[77:09]

You welcome gentle assistance. That's right. You invite gentle assistance. First, I want to say that I very much appreciate the previous three questions, previous three people who presented themselves with questions.

[78:38]

Is this working? It hadn't really occurred to me that the seating would be controversial. It seemed like maybe there's a little bit of... controversy about the height of your seat, so I wanted that the ENO asked me my opinion, and I encouraged her to use two platforms. And I was thinking about this in terms of the in terms of shrinking back or expressing oneself and trying to find one's balance, that it's really helpful to have forms. I find it helpful to have these forms of practice in that process of finding balance.

[79:40]

And that one of the forms is, I think, to look up to the teacher rather than down. And so the first day, you were a little lower, so I was actually looking toward you, which felt a little uncomfortable to me. And I think that that's a, it's a question that isn't even exactly about my personal respect for you, but more a question of how do I want to, what attitude do I want to have toward the teaching? And I think, I'm not sure if this is exactly the same, but maybe similarly the question of could I possibly contemplate the intention of

[80:51]

of sitting as a Buddha, that again, that to think of it, well, no, I couldn't, it's kind of bringing it, it's kind of a self-centered point of view, and that the teaching, again, kind of helps to loosen up that attachment. just, okay, well, this is the form of the teaching. Can I enter into that form and find it helpful? There can be the intention to make a Buddha. But it's not like I'm intending to make a Buddha. Just, what intention is there in the sitting? There's the intention to make Buddha.

[81:56]

And then you can add I'm in, but not take it personally, but just sort of speak in normal, what might be normal, conventional speech. But it's fairly conventional just to say, if the teacher said, what intention is there, to say there is the intention to make a Buddha. And either whether you say, I'm intending to, or the teacher might say, is there, what intention is there, or what are you intending to do? So then you can not shrink back from I, to say I, without grasping it. And a lot of people avoid saying, I, because they don't like to grasp I. So they think if they don't say it, maybe they won't. But then when they say it again, maybe they do. So can we say, I? Well, of course, in the Chinese or Japanese, that, or is that at least partly a function of our language?

[83:04]

In the Chinese and Japanese it's, well sometimes, occasionally in Japanese it's explicitly mentioned, but in Chinese it's usually not mentioned. And then the question is, is it understood? So there's some poetic possibilities there when you don't say it, that it's not one way or the other. It's in the middle. You can stand, it's fine to stand.

[85:23]

No, thank you. I feel silly standing. Okay. I am Buddha. I don't want to be a Buddha. My intention to save all beings. My intention is not to sit in pain. Please help. Did you say your intention is not to sit in pain? I did. So what do you want to do?

[86:30]

How do you want to relate to pain? I have no idea. It changes all the time. I witness here having no idea about how to relate to pain. Okay, I'll stay with that then. See where it gets me. Are you intending to stay with that? Get you? For the moment. I witness your intention. I thought about what my intention was at the moment that you started talking about that.

[88:17]

Is this okay, Kathy? And the words that came, the linguistic side of my practice came, I like to sit still and upright and awake. And When I think Buddha with a capital B it kind of takes me too far. I am not upright anymore. But when I think Buddha it's a Sanskrit word which means awake. And that seems to be okay as long as I don't try too hard to be awake. And I also remembered where you talked about the body quite a bit.

[89:27]

I think you quoted Dogen this lump of red meat. I think there's a quote something like that. And I thought We're linguistic beings, but we're also kinesthetic beings. And I wonder about paradox. Is it paradox or is it just confusion? But maybe it doesn't matter when upright and awake we can be confused and we can be paradoxical and we can think whatever we want to think, whether it's capital B or small b. And I also thought about when I want to be still and upright awake, I don't know what's going to happen from that, but I have faith.

[90:29]

And my faith is that it will help people somehow. But I don't know if it will. And I can't really think about that either. Do you wish it to I would like everything I do to help people. But it gets me in trouble. You said you would like it. I asked you if you wished it. I do wish it. Yes. But that's, again, I feel like when I go there, I lean too far, almost always. in some direction or another. You notice something? I do. Yeah, so there's a human paradox of I wish everything I do to benefit all beings and I don't wish to help.

[91:41]

There's a tension there. And so I hear that there's an intention to be upright within that tension. And there's a wish to be upright when there's leaning. I wish to be still, upright and awake. Maybe so. I read something recently about paradox that I try out and see how it fits into the situation.

[93:24]

Can you hear in the back? Okay. And it was the idea that paradox is really in four parts. It's not this or that. It's this or that. It's not neither and it's not both. But you don't escape from the paradox by going for both of them or going to neither of them. And that seemed to me to be a very dynamic situation, really intense. And then I look at myself and I look at how I am with intensity and how to be kind to what rises in me with intensity. because it's and it's scary. So how to be kind with that process.

[94:28]

Well, I think that being kind to intensity will help us tolerate it. And also tolerating is... So not trying to reduce the intensity or turn the intensity up. Just graciously, carefully, gently, patiently, calmly embracing the intensity and being embraced by it allows us to live there, in the middle, where the Buddhas are living.

[95:42]

it seems that sometimes I want to dance with it, and in the dance I want to move a little closer to it, and then I want to back up from it and have a dance. Yeah, that part of the intensity could also be called a dance. And when people are dancing, they're sometimes... Do you say afraid? Attracted. You're afraid and attracted to the dance. Or in the dance there is attraction, repulsion, fear, and so on. Except when we're perfectly balanced, then all those things are there, but we're not fine with any of it. It might be that when we're there we say, yes, this is what I came for.

[96:51]

This is the life I want to live. I want to be awake. And it looks like there's a wakefulness here now. Yes, there might be awakeness here now. May our attention equally

[97:36]

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