the two ancestors discussing seated Buddha. Daji Matsu says, then what is right? And his teacher says, when someone is driving a cart, if the cart doesn't go, should he beat the cart or beat the ox? And again, I think of John Berryman and of course, Dogen Zenji, when they hear, if the cart doesn't go, they investigate, what does it mean that the cart doesn't go?

[01:35]

Some of us reading, if the cart doesn't go, just might say, well, that means if the cart doesn't go. In other words, my idea of what the cart doesn't go, or my idea of if the cart doesn't go, that's what they're talking about. And one way to say is one way to speak is if the poets of the past and the masters of the past, if they weren't going on the assumption of what it means to say, if the cart doesn't go, if they investigated it wholeheartedly, how can we not? Or if they investigated, maybe we should also try to investigate what does it mean when a teacher says, if a cart doesn't go.

[03:01]

You say, what about even investigating if someone is driving a cart, what does that mean? If we are practicing sitting meditation, which emerges at the same moment as making Buddha, such a practice is undefiled. Such a practice of sitting meditation is not waiting for making a Buddha. It's not expecting making a Buddha.

[04:09]

The practice that emerges with making a Buddha is the sitting practice of the ancestors. The sitting practice of the ancestors is not a practice that's before making a Buddha or after making a Buddha. It's the practice that emerges with making a Buddha. That's the seated Buddha practice. It doesn't expect anything. It's not waiting for anything. It's not working towards anything. itself and it is meeting Buddha face-to-face. The Samyuddin Manchana Sutra says that these two are not completely the same and they're not completely different.

[05:26]

Sitting meditation is not completely the same as making Buddha, and making Buddha is not completely the same as sitting meditation. So what about the sitting meditation of a Buddha? Is that the same as making a Buddha? Maybe that sitting meditation is the same. However, oh, another way to say it is, the invitation to the Buddhas, the invitations and the requesting of making a Buddha and the making of the Buddha, they emerge at the same time. Their inquiry and response arise together, come up together. And in such undefiled practice, in terms of Asian mythology, when such an undefiled practice is going on, the deadening... the deadening forces of delusion, which are sometimes called Mara.

[06:54]

Mara is related to the word Marana, death. Mara is... sometimes envisioned as a being, a demon, who has various deadening dimensions. When one is practicing this undefiled practice of a sitting which emerges at the same time as making a Buddha, Mara, the deadening influences are threatened. They're disturbed. The palaces... of the kings of demons start shaking, having major and minor earthquakes. When that happens, they're aroused to send and spend their greatest resources.

[07:59]

When the undefiled practice is happening, there's great kindness towards all the demons. And being kind to the demons, they're settling into the undefiled practice again. The undefiled practice doesn't expect the deadening influences of past karma to go away. It doesn't expect freedom from the deadening influences to come. It arises together with the making of a Buddha. And this is the practice that really disturbs the deadening forces of past karma. and really starts to shake them up and transform them.

[09:09]

So again they send their greatest resources. And so when one is practicing this way, calmly, quietly investigating, what is this sitting? What is this making Buddha? The great demon may come, and the great demon is boredom. The undefiled practice is assailed by boredom. And the monks start having trouble staying awake. Now, people can have trouble staying awake for other reasons. than just the fact of practicing the undefiled way.

[10:10]

They can also have trouble falling asleep staying awake because they didn't get enough sleep, they didn't get enough rest, or they overate. But also, people who are actually practicing authentic undefiled meditation, they can also get assailed by boredom. And when boredom comes, sometimes it's hard to stay awake. It's sometimes hard to be energetically engaged with boredom. It's a very tricky challenge to a non-defiled practice. So one Korean Zen monk told me that that's why they have koans that give the monks koans.

[11:15]

The teacher gives the monks koans and the teacher says, would you please take this koan to your meditation and take good care of it? And come back and tell me about what you found out about this koan. And so the monk maybe feels, oh, my teacher wants me to work on this, so this makes life more interesting. I have some entertainment in my sitting. And now I can stay awake because my teacher will invite me back soon to talk about this story. And what about Dogen Zenji? Well, he wrote this huge, he gave all these lectures and all these essays to help his monks not be overwhelmed by boredom in the practice he was teaching them. He kept telling him, this practice, which is boring, is really important.

[12:17]

This practice of sitting Buddha is the essential function of every Buddha and every ancestor. It is the functioning essence of every Buddha and every ancestor. It's the acupuncture needle. It's the zazen shin, the sitting Buddha. And the teacher is trying to show the practitioner how important this practice is because it's potentially threatened by boredom. It's not boring, it's just that boredom comes when you practice it. Not always, but often. Because you're really not trying to get anything and that's not very exciting. As I mentioned a while ago now they have this new product called Zazen Sleep Formula.

[13:50]

It's a drink you can buy. It's advertised on big billboards in California. Zazen Sleep Formula. Zazen Sleep Formula. Calm your mind and sleep naturally. Calm your mind and sleep naturally. calm your mind, and wake up naturally.

[15:26]

The great ancestor Dogen says that all the Buddha ancestors have investigated sitting Buddha. They practice it and investigate it. Now I'm trying to investigate it with you. The ancestors Nanyue and Matsu investigated sitting Buddha.

[17:07]

Ancestor Matsu says, what is right? He's investigating sitting Buddha. In sitting Buddha, what is right? What is right? What is right is the teaching of suchness. Now we have it. Taking care of the what is right, another ancestor responds by saying, if you're driving a cart, what does it mean? What does he mean if you're driving a cart? Are you driving a cart? If you are driving a cart, what is that?

[18:23]

And if you're not driving a cart, what are you doing? Master Ma let his teacher go on, but he could have said, when Nanyue said, if a person is driving a cart, he could have said, are you driving a cart, teacher? But he didn't. Not in this story. Are you driving a cart, teacher? Or he could have let him say the next sentence, the next clause. If the cart doesn't move, he could have said, what do you mean, teacher, if the cart doesn't move?

[19:25]

But he didn't say anything. He let his teacher go on. And then his teacher says, do you hit the ox or do you hit the cart? And he could have said, what do you mean by hit the ox? What do you mean by hit the cart? But he didn't. What did he do? What did he do when his teacher said, if a person drives, is driving a cart, what did he do? He was silent. When his teacher said, If it doesn't move, what did he do? He was silent. And when the teacher says, do you hit the card or do you hit the ox? What did he do? He was silent. His posthumous name is Great Silence Daji.

[20:44]

Was he bored? I say, no. Was boredom there? I say, yes. Boredom is always lurking around the Buddha ancestors trying to get them to get off their Buddha seat. You have better things to do than this undefiled practice. You have better things to do than be silent. But this ancestor, this great ancestor, had nothing better to do than be silent. And so we celebrate Daji, great silence, today. We say his name again, great silence.

[21:56]

In English, we say his name in Chinese, Daji. We say his name in Japanese, Daijaku. Boredom is lurking. You have better things to do than sit here quietly. without expecting making a Buddha. I hear you boredom. I hear you knocking. But I'm going to take care of this practice of what is right. I'm going to take care of my enthusiasm and keen interest in what is right.

[22:58]

I'm going to remember the sitting meditation that arises together with making a Buddha. I neither possess nor do not possess this sitting meditation which emerges at the same moment as making a Buddha. There is no making a Buddha separate from this sitting without expecting anything. I'm so interested in taking care of this practice. Maybe someday I'll say, if a person's driving a cart, it's not wrong to say, teacher, what do you mean?

[24:06]

What are you doing, teacher? But if we ask, what do you mean, teacher, if a person's driving a cart? That should be in accord with Daji's silence. We ask the teacher a question from sitting meditation means we're not trying to, we're not expecting an answer. We're not trying to get anything. We're not trying to entertain ourselves by the question. We're asking the question for the same reason that we're sitting making a Buddha. We're asking the question for the happiness of all beings. And sometimes we're quiet for the welfare and happiness of all beings. So at Green Gulch, as you may have noticed, sometimes we're quiet and sometimes we talk. And we investigate, is this quiet?

[25:11]

Is this sitting Buddha? And what is sitting Buddha? I've heard it's sitting. without waiting for sitting Buddha, for making a Buddha. I heard it's the thing that arises with making a Buddha Is this the fifth day of the session, sort of? So we had two more talks and a number of teachings still are going to be given by Nanyue about this essential pivot of all the Buddhas and all the ancestors.

[26:34]

You already have the essential pivot of all the Buddhas and ancestors. And yet, Nanyue is going to give more teachings in this story. He's already taught this functioning essence of all the Buddhas and ancestors, this sitting Buddha. And now he's going to teach, give more, a little bit more, or a lot more instruction a lot more aspects to this sitting Buddha. Sitting Buddha, which is sitting meditation, which is making Buddha. So maybe I could just bring up one of his teachings today and then bring up some more tomorrow and the next day. Are you ready for one of them? Yes.

[27:43]

Okay, one of them is, if you're studying, if you're investigating seated meditation, meditation is not sitting or lying down, not sitting or reclining. Another way of saying it is, if you're investigating, if you're studying, if you're learning seated meditation, in this process of investigation, in this process of learning this seated meditation, which is the seated meditation which is emerging together with making a Buddha, in making a Buddha, there's no sitting or lying down.

[29:24]

This practice has nothing to do with sitting or lying down. You can investigate this sitting meditation in whatever posture you're in. Now we all seem to be in the sitting posture. And if we investigate, if we study seated meditation while we're sitting in this posture, then the meditation is not sitting or lying down. And when we're in some other posture,

[30:33]

If we investigate in that posture, the meditation is not that posture or some other posture. It is our basic orientation. It is making a Buddha. I just thought how funny it is what I'm doing here, what I seem to be doing.

[31:40]

It's almost like I'm a Buddha ancestor recruiting agent, trying to see if I can get some people to sign up to be Buddha ancestors. Am I trying to get people to take care of the study of seated meditation? To take care of the study which will realize that the thing they're taking care of has nothing to do with sitting or lying down? Maybe that's what's going on. Maybe I'm interested in encouraging a keen interest in learning that seated meditation has nothing to do with sitting or lying down.

[32:50]

And without expecting anything, that part's, in a way, that kind of important too, that I'm attempting to encourage people to take care of this practice without expecting that anybody will. And since I don't expect, or if I don't expect that anybody will take care of this practice, or when I don't expect or wait for anybody to take care of this practice, at that moment I think, I'd like to. Not because nobody else is, but just because when I don't expect anybody to, including me, I find out that I want to.

[33:52]

And I even think, which I'll share with you, that if I expect you to take care of this undefiled practice, or if I expect me to take care of this undefiled practice, if I'm waiting for me to take care of seated Buddha, there's a good chance that I'll stop wanting to take care of seated Buddha. there's a good chance that I'll lose interest in making Buddha. But if I try to take care of Buddha without expecting that I'll take care of Buddha, I will continue to want to take care of making a Buddha. And I'll continue to want you to join the caring program Yeah, that seems to be the way it is, that I'm interested in encouraging you to take care of seated Buddha because I don't expect you to.

[35:14]

If you do, if I catch you doing it, I will be surprised and amazed that you are willing to do something so undefiled In a way, I'm also amazed if people don't want to take care of this sitting meditation. Like I used to look at Suzuki Roshi walking around Zen Center, I used to think, how come there aren't a lot of people here? Don't they know he's here? Sometimes there were a lot of people, and then I didn't say, how come there's not a lot of people here? But sometimes he's just walking around, you know?

[36:18]

There he was. And some people who he really loved and would like them to be around, they weren't there. And he would sometimes say to me, where are they? And I would sometimes say, I don't know. But I would think to myself, not I wouldn't say it out loud, I can't believe they're not here. He was available. And people were not availing themselves of his availability. Not all the time. Just some of the time. Some of the time he was available and people were there enjoying his practice with him. But a lot of time he was available and nobody was there. And I just was amazed to see that. And I didn't want to, you know... drink all the ambrosia by myself, so I would just leave him alone until I had a good excuse to have a snack.

[37:23]

For the rest of the story, it's Nanyue giving gifts, giving encouragement to study seated Buddha, to study sitting Buddha, to study Buddha sitting. And now he says, if you're studying seated meditation, It has nothing to do with sitting or lying down. Now you have it. Please take care of it. If you take care of it, you're doing the same thing as Buddha ancestors have done. They've all taken care of this practice. All the Buddha ancestors have taken care of this practice.

[38:53]

What practice? Sitting meditation, which has nothing to do with sitting or lying down. Wherever they are, they're taking care of sitting meditation. Whatever they're doing, they're taking care of sitting meditation. Whatever they're doing, they're taking care of their essential function, of course. and their essential function is making enlightenment. And when they make enlightenment, they do it by requesting enlightenment to come, and they do it by responding to the request for enlightenment to come. They don't do it by themselves, they do it together with all beings. They wish to take care of the practice together with everyone.

[40:01]

And they wish to take care of the practice for everyone. I won't be around much longer and neither will you. And now, that old me is gone and here's a new one who won't be around long and neither will you. If there's anything, any feedback you'd care to offer to this temporarily present person,

[41:07]

If there's anything you'd like to express, you may do so. I've been thinking about the ox. Would you move that just a little bit farther away?

[42:11]

So I've been thinking about the ox. Is that better? You've been thinking about the ox? The ox. Yeah. Signed on to pull someone around, I guess for the benefit of all beings. He stopped. Pardon? He stopped. Somebody stopped? Yeah, the ox. The ox stopped? The ox stopped. He was a bit bored, or he was thinking about something else, or he was... The ox got bored? Yeah, he got bored, or he was trying to... figure something out, and Ray started thinking about some hay or whatever. So, I don't know.

[43:20]

He's sorry. The ox is sorry? Yeah. The ox is sorry. He realized that that the driver was expecting him to pull the cart and he was just standing there. I guess if the driver could hit him or he could hit the cart in a way, hit the cart hard enough, probably the ox will hear it and say, oh, maybe I better get going again. Mm-hmm. That's what you get when you go to rent an ox to get your cart pulled around. When you go to rent an ox, you get your cart pulled around? Or your heart? Let me say it over again. That's what you get when you go to rent an ox to get your cart pulled around.

[44:25]

Okay. Anyway. I think the ox means well, but you're really forgetful. And I'm sorry. The ox is practicing confession and repentance? Yes. I am also very forgetful.

[45:48]

A little bit farther away. So I want to adjust this. Look at her. Farther away. Like this? Good. To the group. For all of you who wished Rep to be here yesterday for the well-being ceremony, and you might have realized he was not, I was told by the ENO to let him know that there is a well-being ceremony. And I told the ENO, I thought that was very smart. If I don't come back to her, then it is okay. And he will know. And of course, I didn't come back to her, but I also didn't let Rep know. So he didn't know that there was a well-being ceremony. And I thought, what was he actually doing during the well-being ceremony? And I remembered he had a very extended discussion with one of his students, which is standing right here.

[46:53]

It was a bit flickering knees again, actually. I didn't have that for a while, but now the right one is flickering, so my little bit of fear of talking in front of people is back. Welcome. And sorry to wrap for you not being able to hear. Thank you. When the Rent an Ox came forward, I remembered that I would like to hear, you had mentioned that the Swedish students had an illumination of some kind around the story of the ox and the cart.

[48:55]

And that it surprised Timo, if I remember correctly. I wanted to ask if you would tell us. I think what surprised Timo is that I asked him to help me. Well, I was curious to know what their help was. You weren't curious that I asked him to help me? That's what he was amazed by. He wasn't surprised by the way they helped me, I don't think. Were you? Okay, so he can tell you about that, but he told me that he was surprised that I asked for help. I'm not surprised that you asked for help, but I'm curious about the help. Tell her, Timon. Tell her what the surprising way they helped me. Actually, you're the second one who asked that already, and... I was just surprised about people who were very fresh in this practice, who brought up this very, yeah.

[50:02]

extremely ordinary views of what the card could be, what the ox could be, and pulling it, but I don't remember the details. I mean, it was recorded, so you might listen to the tape. I remember the person, Shashti, and I was very surprised about her way of seeing it, but I don't remember what she said. I often remember a feeling about something without remembering the content. I had the story when I heard you say that, that somehow the Swedish people had some particular insight into oxes and carts and that there was something Swedish about this response, but I guess that wasn't the case. Is there anything more that you could tell me without going to the tape? I'm still curious. Well, you know, I'm kind of from those people, those Swedes and Norwegians.

[51:13]

So what I meant was kind of like, this teaching is so difficult, I even asked those kind of people to help. I need help from even Norwegians. But, you know, only a Norwegian can tell that story. You know, me and Garrison Keillor. I completely misunderstood your request for help. Congratulations. I thought it was kind and generous and fruitful. It was. It was kind and generous and fruitful. Okay, then I didn't misunderstand. You just didn't find out what they said. No, but I guess I won't until I listen. Well, I won't listen to those tapes. I don't think that, and by the way, I don't think they were amazed that I asked him to help. Maybe they were. Timo was the one who was surprised that I would ask for help from Norwegians.

[52:19]

But that's because he's a German, right? Yeah, right. Asking help from Germans would make sense. You should have asked him for help. You've been asked for the term, right, and not the Swiss. I'm sure there were some English people there. But in Sweden, I mean, in Switzerland, I wasn't talking about the cart. Things were easy in Switzerland. So did you talk about this story then at Sweden? Was that part of the main... Oh, okay. Yeah, there was... It seemed the practice of sitting Buddha was the Swedish retreat topic. And after I finished, I thought, oh, I want to do this at Green Gulch this summer, too.

[53:22]

This is an excellent teaching. When the ox, when the cart doesn't go, do you hit the ox or the cart? Before I do any hitting, I try to find out what not going is. I haven't found that out yet. So we don't know the rest. We don't know the rest. You have to wait until I find out what not going is. I haven't yet exhausted not going. Do you know what the ox, the cart, and the driver are? Do I know what the ox, the cart, and the driver are? I have not exhausted them. That's good. Pardon? I feel like that's good, not to exhaust those things. This is the way of the Buddha ancestors, is to commit to exhaust but not exhaust.

[54:26]

Some effort to make a pun on exhaust is trying to happen, but it's not working. It had something to do with climate change or something like that. Tension machine.

[55:42]

I've been sitting here this week thinking quite a bit about intention. And just before this talk, I walked to the beach and I saw a little bag on the bluff. And in front of the bench that's there are some cigarette butts. And I looked at these things and I thought, what an odd mix of intention this is. Someone came here to this beautiful place to relax and find some peace. And so there's that intention. And then they poison themselves and then defile what they came to enjoy. And as I was picking these things up, I thought, Well, I had a moment of disgust and then a moment of whoever did this is no different than me.

[56:49]

So I find that as I'm polishing tiles here and there, there are many intentions that come up. And sometimes I hide behind the good ones. Sometimes I hide behind the batons when people ask, what are you doing polishing this tile? So my question, how do we spot these intentions that are the intention to make a Buddha? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is look at what intention there is.

[57:56]

And then if you look, you might see, oh, my God, there's an intention to make a Buddha. Or there's an intention to think I'm better than people who are defiling the environment. And I've heard of an intention to not think I'm better than people. And now there's an intention to give up thinking that I'm better than other people. And now there's an intention to make a Buddha. Wishing to practice not thinking I'm better than other people is the intention to make a Buddha. But sometimes when I look, I see the intention to expect making a Buddha.

[59:00]

That's not the intention to make a Buddha. But being kind when I notice that I'm expecting to make a Buddha, that's the intention to make a Buddha. So watching the disgust coming up and then watching the compassion, they're just like me. And I wish to be kind to myself and to people who are expecting something. They want peace, but they're expecting it. They're looking at the Pacific Ocean. And then they expect something. They're waiting for the Pacific Ocean. And then they think, well, if I smoke something, that'll help the Pacific Ocean come. And we all have this tendency lurking all the time from past karma to expect something, to expect peace.

[60:17]

to expect beauty, to wait for making a Buddha. And when we notice that tendency, if we're kind to it, that kindness is sitting meditation. But it's necessary to be looking at the intention, to be questioning it, to be investigating it, Otherwise it's just the unconscious or semi-conscious reproduction of trying to get something out of life. Would you say then that the intention of sitting meditation is to create the space needed to examine our intentions?

[61:24]

Yes. The intention of sitting meditation is to create a space for sitting meditation, which is to examine our intention, which is to study making a Buddha, which is to study seated Buddha, which is to study and investigate our intentions, whatever they are, and studying our intentions, whatever they are, we notice we're studying making a Buddha. And then we don't just stop there, we investigate making a Buddha. And we find out that if there's any kind of defilement in that, and we study that. But in order to study, we have to be kind to everything. Otherwise the study isn't Buddhist study. And again, I have the teaching that we study everything.

[62:30]

And there's nothing that we think is a dead end. There's nothing that we can't enter the Dharma through. These cigarette butts aren't dead ends. And in your story they weren't. And the disgust you felt is not a dead end. And the resentment we feel and so on, all the pains, none of them are dead ends. And to notice them and treat them that way and investigate them, creates the space for sitting meditation, which is a place where making a Buddha emerges. This, each place, each seat in this room is called the Bodhi Mandala, the place for enlightenment. And this building is the place for enlightenment and it's a place for making Buddhas.

[63:35]

But we have to also share the responsibility of keeping the Buddha-making place alive. I'll try to make that my attention. I wanted to ask you to say more to me about how we are all needed to be here.

[65:02]

You know, I think I made a commitment to come here, so I should be here. And it's good for me to be here. And I'm very fortunate to have a life that allows me to be here. But I don't feel that I'm needed to be here. Well, you need to be here so I can take care of you. Do I also get to take care of you? Is that part of the deal? No way. No. Just kidding. So you were having trouble seeing how you were...

[66:08]

needed. Like, you know, how do we need you? And one of the ways we need you is we need you so we can take care of you. If you're up in Northern California, way up there, it's harder for us in some ways. Not that we can't, it's just that it's easier if you're right in front of us. Because we're kind of, you know, not very... We're not very clairvoyant. So it's easier for us to take care of you when you're here. And we also need you to help us take care of the practice of sitting. Especially once you sign up for Sashim. then we need you to come and help the other people who signed up for session. Because if you don't come, when you do come, you help us, so you help us sit by sitting here with us.

[67:20]

But also, you give us a chance to help you sit by coming here so we can sit with you. So we need you to help us, and we need you to be here so we can help you. We need somebody to help here. If nobody comes here, we can go just kind of a flop. But people do come here so we can help them. But some people don't come here, but we're helping them too by being here because they appreciate that we're here helping the people who do come. And the people who do come help us. Because they come and help us by letting us help them. It's really mutual. We do, in fact, need each other, and there's no limit to the people that we need and the limit to the people who need us. There's no limit. There's no boundary. There's no place where people stop needing us. There's nobody who doesn't need me.

[68:20]

There's nobody who I don't need. But we start with this little kind of like small version of that here. by having this week where we're kind of like emphasizing how the people in this retreat need each other. The person you're sitting next to, whether they're present or not, makes a big difference. And they know that. And if they're not there, they take care of that usually. And if they don't take care of it, we take care of them by telling them we'd like them to take care of that. to tell us, you know, if you're not going to be there, let us talk to us about it. So that we feel like even if you're not there, you're taking care of us. So we're very much trying to cultivate the sense of we're taking care of each other here. Because some people sitting here think, well, how am I taking care of people in Angola and Somalia by being here?

[69:24]

We are trying to develop... that taking care of the people in front of us is a good way to take care of people who are farther from us. And taking care of people farther from us is a good way to take care of people close to us. So Kimo was saying, I'm sorry I didn't tell Reb about the ceremony. I was supposed to do that, but I'm sorry I didn't because I was talking to him. And in talking to him, I forgot to tell him. But he was still trying to take care of the people. But also, he was helping me take care of him by being there. And when he was saying that, I was saying, I remember Suzuki Roshi, you know, Zen Center grew a lot just before he died. And it kept growing afterwards. And he said, now Zen Center has gotten big and people have to make appointments to see me. Used to be you just walk up to his office and you're just there, you know, or not there.

[70:34]

But there was not very many people at Zen Center. He said, now people have to make appointments to see me sometimes. He said, but people should know that when I'm talking to one person, I'm taking care of another person. I'm taking care of them. When I'm talking to somebody else, I'm taking care of you. People have to understand that. So if you're waiting to see Suzuki Roshi, it's not like, why isn't he talking to me? He's talking to that person in that room for me. He's not talking to that person for that person only. He's taking care of that person for me. And he's not rushing to get through talking to that person so he can talk to me. Just like when he talks to me, he doesn't rush through talking to me so he can get to the next person. He spends the right amount of time with me For the next person. For all people. So that's what we're trying to learn here is how to take care of this person and this person right now for everybody.

[71:38]

Because nobody wants us to do a half-hearted job of taking care of them so we can take care of other people. But we have to learn that, and he was trying to teach us, I'm going to be thorough with this person for the other people. My thoroughness with this person is thoroughness with everybody. Rather than, I've got a lot of people to see, so I can't really be thorough with you, so I can move on and not be thorough with the next person. And he said that to me, and he wasn't around much longer. But he did a pretty good job with that little bit of time he had. He didn't do much, actually. But he set an example of not doing much thoroughly. Or thoroughly not doing much. Of just seeing a few people. Of just having a few kind of like

[72:42]

Not very good students. But he was thoroughly with them, and I never felt like he was rushing on to see the next person when he was with me. He wasn't like looking, you know, ahead. He was looking, he was with me. I wanted to get away, but he wasn't in a hurry. I wanted the next person to come. But he showed me he was not in a hurry for the next person to come. But he also said that he was kind of stupid. He really didn't even know any better. All he knew was that this is the person in front of me. He didn't know that there was other people to take care of. Or was there somebody else? But on the other hand, he did know that some people were thinking, when's he going to see me? And that's what he had to say.

[73:45]

You should know when you're waiting to see me, the person I'm talking to, I'm talking to them for you. And I may never see you. You may never have your meeting with me. But all the time I was with that person, it was for you. And you know, yeah, I think we should learn that. That when I'm talking to you, I'm talking to you completely, and I'm talking to you completely, for Timo. Yeah, it's really about why does each one matter, or how does each one matter? Yeah, each one matters because each one is everybody. It's not just this one. It's a, this is Angola, This is Rwanda. This is the best we can do right now. And then maybe tomorrow we'll be in Africa or we'll be someplace else. And when we're there, we won't be thinking, well, what about the people back in San Francisco?

[74:50]

Well, we might be thinking about it, but say, I'm here in Israel. I'm here in Iraq for my friends in San Francisco. That's what I'm here for. I'm completely here with these people for my loved ones back in the United States. And when I'm here, I'm with these people, not just for these people. But I'm completely for these people, not a little bit for these people because I'm really here for other people. I'm completely with these people so that I can be taking care of everybody. Or so that the care has no bounds. If I set a boundary on the care, then the care has a boundary. Then it's, if I'm half-hearted with you, then you get, then you're the only one who gets the half-heartedness. The other people don't get the half-heartedness. Well, they maybe get poisoned by it. So maybe even the half-heartedness pervades. But wholeheartedness has no boundary. But we have to train that wholeheartedness to make sure we're not leaning into the next appointment.

[75:56]

If we lean into the next appointment, it's really very difficult to have a lot of appointments. But if we just take care of this appointment, we'd do fine. Even if there's a lot of them, one after another. But if we start thinking, oh my God, there's 90 more, we really feel wasted. That's helpful. Thank you. And that's how you help us. That's how we need you. We need you to come here and completely take care of yourself and completely take care of everybody you meet. We need you to practice that, and we need you here so we can practice that with you. And so you can ask us, you know, what we're doing. Thank you. And by the way, you remind me more of Tommy Smothers than Garrison Keillor. Yeah, I'm just... I don't know if Tommy Smothers is Norwegian, though. I don't either.

[77:00]

Yeah, nobody ever told me that I... Nobody ever told me that I remind them of Garrison Keillor, which I consider a compliment. Which way? That they did or they didn't? That they didn't. But I am Norwegian. I have a Norwegian identification badge. But I'm also German. My grandfather was German. My grandfather, Charles Newford, was born in Germany. of a Prussian military family. And my other grandmother was born in Denmark.

[78:01]

So all this talk of Europe has made me feel decidedly sort of nostalgic. And I was just sort of thinking of Switzerland and why you haven't told the story in Switzerland. I came up with this little story. I mean, I have to remember that I don't know the characters for Cat, Ox, Driver, Not Going. So I don't know all the nuances. But it seemed to me, in my story anyway, that if you were to ask in Switzerland about... why the box wasn't and the car weren't going anywhere. It was because there was a mountain and a train and the driver should get off the car and on the train.

[80:00]

And the more I thought about it, the more it didn't feel quite right. And I'm wondering whether actually The reason why the ox and the cow were no longer moving was because the driver had this expectation that they were going to polish his tiles. And in fact, he needed, she needed, we all need to be polishing in order to accept the help from the ox and cow, but we can't expect them to be doing it. That's what I thought. Funny story. Have you reached that place? No. Are you still expecting something? Yeah. Unfortunately.

[81:02]

Now we're going to beat the something. Now we're going to beat the ox. Okay. Ready? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I just remembered when I said I wanted to be your dog. You knew that would be a good job. And so you said you wanted to be, could you be my master? I asked you if you could be my master? No, you asked if you could be my master. Oh, I asked if I could be your master? Yeah, if I was your dog. Yeah? What did you say? I couldn't do that. That was the bit I couldn't do. You couldn't? No. Oh. I couldn't have a master. Well, you wanted to be my dog, but have me not be your master? Yeah, yeah. The master was a big thing for me. Well, how are you doing now? I just realized when you were going to beat the ox that I didn't have a problem anymore with that.

[82:04]

Oh, good. Ready for a master? Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. I asked him if he was ready for a master and also I asked you, are you ready to be a master? Are you ready to master every situation?

[83:10]

Are you ready to completely devote yourself to every situation? To take care of every meeting wholeheartedly? Are you ready? May our intention equally extend

[83:53]

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