Those who are overcome by pride and conceit are ordinary beings. While those who are overcome by pride and conceit are unusual. This reminds me of what E. H. Dogen says, that Buddhas are those who are greatly enlightened about delusion. For example, conceit.

[01:01]

Buddhas are those who are greatly enlightened about conceit. and other delusions. Sentient beings are those who are greatly deluded about enlightenment. That's lovely, but also I would say that some sentient beings are not greatly deluded about enlightenment. Some sentient beings have some ideas about enlightenment but they aren't proud of them. They aren't proud of them. They just have ideas about sentient beings. But they don't approve of their

[02:04]

understanding. They don't approve of their understanding, but they do have some understanding. They don't approve of their understanding of enlightenment, but they do have such a thing. One time I was at Tassajara and Suzuki Roshi was giving a talk and he said something like, my disciples blah blah, And when he said it, I thought, I wonder if I'm one of his disciples. He was saying something about his disciples, and I was wondering if I was one of them. So afterwards I said, Roshi, who are your disciples? I didn't say, am I? I said, who are your disciples? And he said,

[03:05]

He said, I don't like it that I think this way, but I do. In other words, he had an understanding of who his disciples were. He said, I don't like it that I think this way, but I do. There's two kinds of students at Tassajara. I think that way. One kind of student is here for themselves. They are here practicing for themselves, maybe for their own enlightenment. Other students are here to help others. They are here to help others, my disciples. So, I could see whether I was his disciple then.

[04:12]

If I'm there to help other people, I'm his disciple. If I'm there practicing to help myself, I'm not his disciple. And if he's practicing for himself, he's not his own disciple. But I'm bringing this story up also to say that he was thinking this way about the students at Tassajara. But he didn't approve of it for thinking about him that way. But he did. And it was quite useful to me that he was thinking about him that way because then I could look to see if I was a disciple. Which reminds me of a chapter where it says the character of the compounded realm and the ultimate is the character devoid of sameness and difference. Those who impute sameness and difference are improperly oriented.

[05:16]

So, sorry that he was imputing these categories onto the students at Tassajara. He was sorry to be improperly oriented, but it was helpful to me. I think. I also want to say something related to this. What I meant to say some time ago was that there's a basic practice of being silent and still. And the practice of the ceremony of being silent and still is a way to realize silence and stillness. So you can have an understanding about phenomena and that understanding

[06:34]

can be an opportunity to... an understanding which is beyond your understanding, if you're not conceited about your understanding. Your understanding, my understanding, is my consciousness. ...is your consciousness with its understanding. But your understanding, your consciousness and my understanding, my consciousness do not reach the understanding of the Buddhas. And the understanding of the Buddhas is also not reached by the consciousness of the Buddhas. No consciousness reaches the Buddha's illumination. But that illumination can illuminate our consciousnesses. If we do not think that our consciousness is the illumination, or that our consciousness reaches it. In other words, if we're not conceited about our understanding, the correct understanding can illuminate us.

[07:44]

And if we practice the ceremony of sitting, of being still, and the ceremony of being silent, which we do practice here, and we realize that that's a ceremony, my stillness is not stillness. There is a stillness which your being still and my being still can realize, but our sitting still is not stillness. Stillness is beyond our human ceremony of stillness. Limited human ceremony can realize actual stillness of the Buddha. but we must be not proud of our sitting still. I'm just pretending to be sitting still. I'm pretending to be quiet. I'm pretending to be a Buddha. And my pretending doesn't reach Buddha, stillness or silence, but this is the only way to realize it in this limited world.

[08:58]

And not only is it the only way, But it does work. And the working of it is the practice of pretending to be a Buddha, of pretending to be a Bodhisattva, of pretending to be kind, of pretending to be still, of pretending to be silent, to be open. Pretending to be open, we let in the actual openness. So we must realize that we're just pretending to be practicing the Buddha way, rather than be proud and say, I am actually practicing the Buddha way. This is what I'm doing, is the Buddha way. It just turns out that it is, because it is, because I'm, etc. No, I'm just pretending to practice the Buddha way. And that's a delusion. But I know it's a delusion.

[10:02]

I don't think it's like anything more than that. Or at least right now I don't. So this is part of the antidote. I'm trying to work on developing an antidote to the pride. The actual view that we're doing this or that, we don't need an antidote to that. We just need an antidote and make it too much out of it. Whatever little thing we're doing, if we're not conceited about it, it can be a landing pad or a launching pad for the Buddha way. Because The ultimate, which is the object of purification of the phenomena, the object of observation for the purification of phenomena, is everywhere the same.

[11:13]

Whatever we're doing, it has this character, which is the same as the character of phenomena. It's right there in whatever we're doing. What we're doing is fine, and we've just got to be careful not to be conceited about it. which includes being careful to admit that we're being conceited about it. So I invite you to help me understand without conceit what the one taste of all phenomena is and how the ultimate is that one taste of all phenomena.

[12:32]

Please help me. Yes? Even you, I guess, huh? Even you can help me. Because the one taste must have something to do with you too. You mentioned about the pretending of stillness, the people sitting in the form of stillness. Yeah. We've been doing that today. So I think stillness, like any other, any grace, stillness is a grace that comes... I'm not saying you pretend to be stillness, you shouldn't do that. You should be still, because you can't... Your consciousness cannot know stillness. All your consciousness can know is your view of being still. Like you think you're... being still or you think you're moving.

[13:36]

You can know that. I'm not suggesting that you pretend to be stillness. That would be, what do you call it, that would just be too, that would be... I'm not asking you to be a lunatic. I'm just asking you to be a normal, deluded person who thinks they're like being still or that they think they're being quiet. That's all. Do you think you're quiet or you feel the quietness inside? Well, do you think you're being quiet when you're talking? Well, that's what I mean. Just like that. You don't think you're quiet when you're talking. And when you stop talking, you might think, well, I'm at least doing the ceremony of being quiet because I'm not talking.

[14:38]

So I'm just doing a little ceremony. Or like, if I join my hands and palm to you, I'm doing the ceremony of being respectful to you. if I make some other gestures towards you, I don't think I'm doing the ceremony of being respectful. I think that was a disrespectful gesture, you know, like, you know, demonstrate, but there's certain gestures which I think are disrespectful. But you're thinking in that moment, you're not being it. It's not really true that it's disrespectful, just I think so, or somebody else thinks so, or I think this mudra is respectful. Pretending to be respectful and also when I'm being disrespectful, it's good for me to realize I'm pretending to be disrespectful. I'm not really disrespectful. I'm not ultimately, absolutely, truly disrespectful. I just think I'm being disrespectful and maybe other people think so too. But sometimes I think I'm being disrespectful and other people agree with me or don't.

[15:43]

But we're thinking. This is our deluded version of what's going on. I think I'm being respectful. I think I'm being quiet. I think I'm being still. And I'm actually intending to do the ceremony of being quiet and do the ceremony of being a seated Buddha. But it's just a ceremony. I don't want to be conceited about this and think that I'm actually a seated Buddha and I'm actually being silent and I'm actually being still. That I'm actually silence and stillness of the Buddha. I don't want to go that far. Because then I'll be closed to the silence and stillness of Buddha. So I just do the little ceremony of being silent and still. And then in that humble... pretense, I'm open to the silence and stillness of . That's my proposal. My action cannot reach it, but it can reach me if I allow it by not making too much out of myself.

[16:51]

But I should make something out of myself. like a person who's practicing being silent. So now we start sitting at Green Gulch, and we're going to practice the ceremony of sitting silent and still. And some people might make too much out of that, and that will be too bad, because they'll be practicing, but because of making too much out of it, they're conceited about their sitting, one way or another like conceded about this is really lousy or this is really great. If they apprehend their sitting as being the way they think it is that will interfere with their ability to realize the ultimate. If not, then they're like the people who are open to it. And can the ceremony and the experience Is there a delay in the ceremony and the experience?

[17:55]

No, there's no delay. As soon as you do the ceremony, that realizes the ultimate. But if you do the ceremony, which realizes the ultimate, and you think the ceremony is the ultimate, then you're being conceited about your ceremony. You don't think it's a ceremony, you think it's the ultimate. That's conceit. That's approving of your understanding. But I don't approve of that. I just, I admit, I think I'm doing the same. I think I'm sitting here with you guys. I think I'm being quiet with you guys. But I don't approve of that. I don't want to approve of that. And if I do, I welcome your feedback. You look like you approve of the idea that you're... Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Let me try again. How's that? That was much better. That time you really looked like you understood the joke of sitting still. Brekkie poo.

[18:59]

And then to a certain extent, is it not also a conceit to think I am sitting or I'm doing sitting? Again, if you think I am sitting, and you apprehend that and think that that's true, then you're conceited about that thought. You're welcome. So Homa didn't want to help me. Does anybody else want to help me? Yes, helper. It must be you. Because you're the example of the one taste, right? Were you sitting? Were you sitting down?

[20:02]

Or you think you were sitting down? Yeah, so today when you thought you were sitting down, You mean certain sensations indicated that you think you were on the floor? What? Yeah, right. You thought that, yeah. Okay, here comes an admission. doubt about whether what I was sitting was sitting. And this is... Yeah, that great doubt, that's good. That's very good. Yeah, a great doubt of whether the sitting I think I'm doing is sitting. And that doubt might open you to let the actual sitting in, which is not your thinking that you're sitting, but the actual sitting of the Buddhas.

[21:10]

So great doubt means big, open, vast doubt. I don't know what I'm doing, but I think I'm sitting here. I do think I'm sitting here, but I don't know what I'm doing. And I don't know what I'm doing doesn't mean, well, maybe I'm actually the sitting of the Buddha. No, but maybe. I'm allowing the actual sitting of Buddha, so I'm realizing the actual sitting of Buddha. I don't know if I'm the sitting of the Buddha. I don't know if I'm a falcon. I don't know if I'm a song, a great song. I don't know if I'm a storm. I don't know what I am. For example, that I'm any of those things which I might be. And in that, I call on Susan. Yes? Yeah, there are conditions which are conducive.

[22:20]

What? No, but I can talk. Noticing that you're conceited is really helpful. I think that it seems to be one of the traditional things that the unconceited ones have spent... The Buddhas, they study delusion. They're very knowledgeable about delusion. They don't spend a lot of time thinking about their enlightenment. They don't spend a lot of time thinking that what they're thinking is enlightenment. They don't spend a lot of time thinking that their... to be approved. But they do notice if they do think that, and then they say, oh, that's a delusion. So is the ceremony of sitting still also a conducive condition? I think the ceremony of sitting still as a ceremony, I think that's kind of like sitting still knowing that you're enacting your idea of sitting still.

[23:28]

So realizing that you're doing a ceremony of sitting still, I think, is conducive to realizing the actual stillness. And the realization of actual stillness also surfaces any other kinds of conceits that are around. The stillness helps you become aware of the conceits. And so when you notice the conceits, that's good. I wonder if there's anybody here who hasn't seen any conceits in your neighborhood lately. John? Realization of non-separation? Mm-hmm. Realization of non-separation is kind of like realization of the ultimate, which is of one taste.

[24:38]

Norbert? When Suzuki Roshi said to you that he didn't approve of thinking that way? He didn't say I don't approve of it, he said I don't like it. I felt like he was saying I don't like that my mind categorizes these students here. I don't like my mind does this, but it does. into these two types of Tassajara students. He didn't like it, but he confessed that he did. He had this kind of like thing that his mind did to the poor students. And then the disciples were in one side and then the other part. So when he was saying my disciples, that's what he was talking about. And he kind of didn't like that. But he told me something about himself that he didn't like too much. He was not proud that his mind did this. He wasn't saying that this was really true. I didn't feel like he was saying that that was true. It's more like his mind's playing with this.

[25:43]

And I would add, my perspective is, he descended into delusion to help me, to help us. But he didn't like, he's a little bit queasy about being deluded that way. This is kind of how I feel today. John? I wanted to offer that this teaching disturbs me, makes me agitated. To practice silence and stillness with it, there's a setup in it that makes me very dissatisfied with my analytical understanding of anything. I just wanted to offer that. Being satisfied with your understanding. So, and you're uncomfortable with this new way of life.

[26:46]

Yes. Yeah. When you're not satisfied with your understanding you're not overwhelmed by conceit. Congratulations. No. Not being prideful is not comfortable for us. We're not used to it. We're used to being proud. My... My understanding may not be perfect, but I'm satisfied with it. And it's mine. Not being satisfied is, again, kind of unfamiliar and uncomfortable in the unfamiliarness. And even if you get more familiar with it, you still might be somewhat uncomfortable. Sorry. But that's normal, I think, to be somewhat uncomfortable. For example, when you're proud, you might think that you're going to be able to control things, right, with your understanding.

[27:50]

And when you're not satisfied with your understanding, you end up a little bit. So that sounds pretty good, and I'm not really sorry that you're uncomfortable. I'm not really sorry because I think it's a discomfort that comes with something really good. So I think it's a good price for something really good. But it does take some getting used to. You get seasick at first with this being out on the big ocean. Johnny? The first I heard was page 59 with Bhagavan saying, so I have perfectly and completely realized the ultimate. This sounds awfully conceited. Yeah, yeah. And so I... Yeah, so that's why most of us say, well, I understand.

[29:00]

Because really we think, but we don't want to say that because we know that sounds conceited, so we... We say a way that we are pretty sure doesn't sound conceited. We're proud that we know how to sound not so conceited. The Buddha just puts it out there and he says, I completely, perfectly understand something with no conceit. With no pride. Selfless conceit. There's no conceit, though. It's selfless no conceit. It's selfless conceit. statement of perfection. So I struggled and said, how can this not be conceited? And I thought maybe if one simply has openness and finds something and doesn't attribute the finding as a result of seeking, then maybe you just take this to account.

[30:02]

But believe that... Did you say defining? Find. Find, yeah. He says what he found without... Yeah, but also he says, I didn't find anything. When I attained complete, perfect understanding of the ultimate, I didn't find anything. He also says that, but not here. He said that before. When he attained complete nirvana, complete enlightenment, there was nothing at all he attained, and there was no means by which he attained it. And then he says, because... I didn't attain anything. And because there was no means by which I attained it, that's why it's complete, perfect enlightenment. I'm conceited because I don't have anything to be conceited about. So seeking is not such a good deal. Seeking is not such a good deal. No, it's not such a good deal. that we're seeking.

[31:02]

And that's not such a good deal. Or even, it's also possible that some of the people who were there to help others were seeking too, but maybe they got to be in his disciple camp because they were seeking to help others. Those who were seeking, not only seeking, but seeking themselves, they got put in that category. Anyway, it's It's wonderful to talk to you today, and if you'd like to do a little ceremony, those of you who can stay will clean up and do a little ceremony, or even we'll do a huge ceremony for some huge beings who we may be responsible for cutting down for the sake, hopefully for their own welfare. Is there anything you want to say before we stop?

[32:05]

Who are your disciples? Who are mine? I, unlike Suzuki Roshi, am not able to talk at this time about this. But when I do, I'll be sorry. May

[32:29]

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