I have some thoughts that I wanted to share with you. And when I contemplate sharing these thoughts, I feel they're rather, it's rather challenging to be able to do so. And maybe if you can watch how difficult it is for me, that will help you stay tuned. It might be difficult for you too. And I think it's okay to start by saying I think that the teachings that I have been offering, I think they're rather difficult to accept and understand. And I appreciate you trying to accept them, opening to them, and coming back and opening again.

[01:09]

Can you hear me, Nancy? Great. So one thing that might be good, I'm not sure it's a good way to approach what I want to talk about, but I'm going to try this, that I think last week and many times I was talking about a process of training. And this process of training is asserted to lead to a condition called freedom from suffering. But you could also say freedom from being unskillful. Or you could put it also, free to act skillfully. A method of training so that you can freely and spontaneously respond skillfully to this world and all beings.

[02:18]

Being able to respond skillfully to all conditions is kind of like freedom from suffering. Suffering is kind of like when we're not responding well. So I'm describing this process of training which once again is asserted to lead to being able to respond to evil, for example, or very unwholesome situations, or very unjust situations, to be able to respond to them in a wholesome, good, and just way. And I've had this experience before of when I'm talking about the training, people sometimes say, but what about... They think of some situation where they think, should we be doing the training under that circumstance too?

[03:30]

And this is a tricky point. It keeps coming up. And so at the last class, as usual, Linda asked really good questions. early and sometimes just before the class ends, so I couldn't really address your question fully. I'd like to address it now. So I'm describing this training which, to make a long story short, is to leave whatever appears to let it be itself. To do justice to it, you know, is to let it be itself. And once again, if we are able to let it be itself, that will lead to us being able to respond to it appropriately, appropriately to peace and wholesomeness.

[04:40]

So again, let's say you're meeting situations, And then what about some situation where injustice appears or something harmful appears? Then the question is, would you continue to let the harm just be harm? Or should you stop doing the training and respond to the harm in a way to protect beings? That kind of it? So, if the training has come to maturity, I think also Linda used the term, what about in such and such situation, should we intervene? Now, if the training is mature, you could say that you could intervene, which is actually again a response, and the intervening would be appropriate.

[05:48]

To what? To waking the people up so that they would not be involved in harmful action. So just look at that case. And so one famous story that popped in my mind thinking about this is a story about a person named Angulimala. So it's like, is this a metaphor? But anyway, the story is that at the time of the historical Buddha back in India, there was a mass murderer roaming around near him. Somebody who killed many, many people. To make a long story short, he killed many, many people. And lo and behold, who should he kind of get in the neighborhood of? The Buddha.

[06:50]

Kind of like, how lucky that the mass murderer runs into a Buddha. So this is one of the most fortunate mass murderers in history. Got to meet the Buddha. So on this occasion, the mass murderer actually was in the neighborhood also of his mother, and he was going to kill his mother because he was trying to rack up a lot of murders. And so he was going to kill his mother. And the Buddha in the neighborhood saw that he was going to kill his mother and intervened. The Buddha intervened. The Buddha walked between this murderer and his mother. So then the murderer decided to go after the Buddha.

[07:51]

He didn't know who the Buddha was. He could tell he was some kind of a yogi. Anyway, this murderer went after the Buddha. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing that the Buddha would have a murderer running after him? So anyway, the Buddha intervened. but he's intervening from the maturity of the practice. He has trained himself to let whatever it is be just whatever it is. let a color. In something seen, there's just something seen. In something heard, there's just something heard. In anxiety, there's just anxiety. In a dangerous situation, there's just a dangerous situation. And then again the Buddha says when you actually train yourself so that's the way things are for you so when you meet a murderer in the murderer there's just a murderer in a person in a dangerous appearing a person in a monster there's just a monster you train yourself so that's what it is it's just a monster and when that's the way it is that just a monster or just a saint

[09:13]

when you do justice to them, then at that time you will not be with them. It won't be like the monster and you're with the monster or not with the monster. And you won't be in the monster or not in the monster. And then there will be no here or there or in between. And you have a relationship with a monster, with a dangerous person, or, you know, something dangerous in yourself, a monster in yourself, or a monster... There's no here or there in between. This is our infinite life. You realize it. And this is the... Again, the Buddha says, this is the end of suffering, which you could also say, this is the end of doing things that

[10:17]

are suffering. But it's also the beginning of doing something that liberates, that ends and brings benefit. So the Buddha has done this training and then so when the Buddha sees a murderer, the Buddha can intervene and then relate to the murderer in a way that wakes the murderer up. So he goes there and the murderer runs over to kill him. And he just kind of walks away. And the murderer runs fast after the Buddha, and the Buddha walks away. But the Buddha is walking kind of like we do during walking meditation. in the first part of the walking meditation. He's walking slowly and mindfully, step by step.

[11:21]

And this guy's running fast and not catching up with him. And, you know, he's kind of surprised. It's like the Buddha's walking slowly away and he's on like on a conveyor belt or something going in the other direction. So he calls out to the Buddha and says, hey, hey monk, what's going on? Why can't I catch you? And the Buddha says, because I stopped. And you should stop too. And this basically insane murderer woke up. And that was the end of his suffering. Well, that was the end of his suffering. Lots of painful things happened to him after that, but he knew how to handle them. The Buddha transmitted this to him. He woke up. Now, that's kind of clear, isn't it?

[12:26]

But you might say, well, what if I'm in the middle of the training and I haven't got there yet? The training takes you to the place where the Buddha is sitting and where you're sitting with the Buddha and then when unwholesome things come to you, you can respond appropriately. But what if you haven't got to the seat yet? You might wonder. Should I take a break from the practice when things come to me? Under some circumstances? Some people are saying no. But the question does come up, should I take a break from the practice of letting things be themselves before I've actually got to that place where I really can do it? Should I take a break from my attempt to learn this under some circumstances? Now, part of letting things be is being flexible.

[13:36]

If I'm not flexible, I actually have trouble letting things be. So if I was like doing a meditation of letting somebody be and suddenly they became enraged with me or enraged with somebody else and they were going to hurt the person and I was meditating before they became potentially dangerous, should I continue the meditation or should I stop and intervene in a non, you know, in a non-just way? I'm tempted. And it might be the case, though, that to give up the meditation practice I'm doing, to let go of it, actually might realize it. So if I'm doing meditation practice and something comes up to me and says, stop doing this meditation practice, you have to give it up.

[14:45]

Actually, before the Buddha was trained, the Buddha was sitting, meditating, trying to let things be, and he got assailed by violent appearances, right? You know that story. It's kind of a myth, but anyway. The Buddha is supposedly sitting still and be still with things, trying to learn to do justice to things, and then got this big attack of a lot of violent stuff comes to him, and he continues to be still. But he's not like rigidly holding to be still. He's gently, tenderly continuing to be still. And he also does justice to the invading army of demons. He lets them be an invading army of demons. And they are pacified. But anyway, this is a difficult point for us.

[15:53]

Should we continue the practice? In my own case, I can't think of examples where I was trying to meditate and then something happened and I felt like I should give up the meditation in order to handle it. I don't have that. People say that to me a lot, that they're thinking of doing that, but I haven't been thinking of doing it. I've been thinking to continue to practice under more and more dire circumstances. And when I have tried to do it, I have sometimes failed to continue the practice. And I usually... I'm pretty nice to myself in my failure. But I do feel like I failed, and I'm sorry I failed. But when I continue the practice, I have not regretted it. I have not continued the practice under some dire circumstance and felt like I shouldn't have continued the practice. I should have dropped the practice and taken care of something.

[16:55]

But that's just my experience. So that was one of the main things. Oh, and also one time I was talking about some kind of practice and Barry said, but what about if somebody would attack Kim? You know, we're talking some practice and he couldn't imagine he would continue the practice if somebody was going to attack Kim. Remember that? It's the same thing. He was thinking, well, this is kind of a nice practice, but if somebody is going to attack, hurt Kim, then I'm not going to do that practice with that person. He lost confidence that doing the practice we were talking about, which was another version of what I was just saying, I don't remember what it was, there's many ways to get to Buddha's seat where you will be able to take care of your wife and your husband and your babies.

[17:59]

And you can also take care of your husband and your babies before you get to Buddha's seat. It's just that when you get to Buddha's seat you're going to be more effective. You're not just going to protect your children, you're going to wake up everybody by the way you respond. You're going to do more than just protect. You're going to protect and liberate. But still, it's hard to believe sometimes that you should do justice to somebody who's going to hurt somebody that you want to protect. But again, doing justice What it ultimately means is that you wake them up. By letting them be, you wake them up. By letting them be, you verify there's no here or there or in between. And this is transmitted. The Buddha transmitted this to this violent person. And if you're not there yet, well, you do your best.

[19:05]

But if you give up the practice by which you might be able to not just protect people but wake them up, well then you probably give up the waking up part and then you just do your best to protect them, which is good. I'm talking about not just protecting people from harm but benefiting them. So we should protect people from harm. While we're protecting people from harm, let things be themselves. You can protect things. You can play ping pong and let things be. You can step between an aggressor and a potential endangered person. You can step between and do this practice, you don't have to give the practice up to step between. The practice won't stop you from stepping between, necessarily.

[20:09]

And also, if you don't do the practice, it isn't really not doing the practice which will stop you from stepping between. You might not step between if you're not doing the practice. You might step between if you are doing the practice. I don't know what you'll do. Except if you are practicing, I do know what you'll do. You'll do something appropriate. And also there's many appropriate responses. There's not just one. It's determined by the situation. You do this situation and then the situation changes slightly and you do a slightly different response. So here's the situation, here's the appropriate response and then everybody changes and the response changes. It's just for that moment. And then another one and another one and another one. And this, yeah, and this is our infinite life, the life by which we're infinitely making appropriate responses. But we have to like let the finite life be just what it is.

[21:13]

We have to do justice to our limited situation with this particular pleasant or unpleasant situation, this particular peaceful situation or unpeaceful situation. Because again, a peaceful situation should also be treated like an unpeaceful situation. In the peaceful situation, we train ourselves that there's just a peaceful situation. And when the peaceful situation is just a peaceful situation, then you will not be with the peaceful situation. And then you will not be in the peaceful situation. And that will be the end of suffering. If you don't let the peaceful situation just be a peaceful situation, then you'll be with it and that will be suffering. So you can be in a peaceful situation and suffer and transmit suffering by being with it or not with it.

[22:16]

That's where the suffering comes from because you're not really with situations. The situations are you. You are the situations. So I wanted to say that. And it kind of worked out OK, I think. Thank you for listening. And one more thing I want to say as a kind of summary of this nice long time we've had together this year. So I've been speaking about our conscious mind, our self-conscious mind, the kind of mind where there's somebody there called me, who is pretty important.

[23:24]

Matter of fact, really important. And I'm kind of embarrassed how important this person is. And some people are so embarrassed, they're really sick of this person being so important. I wish this person wasn't so important. It's so embarrassing how important this person is. But they're here all the time and I wish I could get rid of them. They're so important, I want to get rid of them. I want a less important ego. Anyway, this consciousness, self-consciousness, I've been speaking of as a clearing in a dark forest. And the dark forest is a vast body-mind which we share with other beings. And that vast forest supports the clearing in which I'm living in self-consciousness. And also in that forest there's many clearings which are many consciousnesses.

[24:27]

And in the clearings things are appearing and disappearing. pretty much everything in the clearing is an appearance. And nothing against appearances, It's just that they have a subliminal message underneath them which says, this is not an appearance, this is an actual thing. This is a reality. This isn't an appearance. But we evolve to a point where we just see the appearance and we read the subliminal message that it's not an appearance and we believe it and we don't even know we're reading that. So we have problems. which is part of the reason we want to get out of this clearing where this important self is. Like an Oya also, not only is there a self that's really important, but it's underneath the self.

[25:31]

It actually is important and it really is a reality. And so on. So these appearances are going on. This is part of our... This is our limited life. This is our limited life, our consciousness. So, if you can let these appearances just be appearances, then you will not be with the appearances, you will not be in the appearances, and when you're not with the appearances or in the appearances, all the appearances, which are, again, generally speaking, kind of misleading, kind of like they say, they send you the message that they're real without even telling you they're sending you the message. All these appearances which are pretty deceptive and if you treat them this way, if you do justice to them, these appearances become doors, they become windows to reality.

[26:47]

they kind of open up and you can see through these appearances your infinite life. You can see through these appearances how to respond together with everybody and everybody respond together with you infinitely. You can see that, and when you see that, you respond appropriately. So that's maybe my summary. Okay. Anything? Yes. I don't know if this is relevant to or helpful, but as you were talking, I kept thinking of Music, actually.

[27:49]

Music. Rhythm. Rhythm. And then through connecting... Yeah, music's a good example. In music, people often let... When people are listening to music, they often let the sound just be the sound. In music, they often let the heard just be the heard. And when they really let the heard just be the heard, when they listen to it that way, the herd, the appearance, this sound, it opens up and they get to see another world through this sound. But you have to listen to the sound, you know, you have to do justice to the sound in order for the sound to take its mask off and show you something that's beyond the sound. So music is nice that way. And then some musicians are really helpful because the way they play the music kind of like encourages us to let the music be the music rather than think about, well, this music's really pretty or I wish they'd do this more often or I wish... So yeah, so some musicians really help us.

[29:01]

The way they make their music, it helps us like really let their music be. And it's like a dance, right? It's like a what? Like a dance. It's like a dance. Yeah, music is like a dance, except it's not really a dance. It's also not really music. But music, I think part of what music's about is to free us from illusion. that's one of the great gifts of music, is that it performs a service similar to the Dharma. Which I think is great. And then when you let music serve that function, then you can say, maybe, I'd like to be able to open to the Dharma all day long, rather than have to, because these musicians go home. They're not playing to me all the time.

[30:04]

I would like to be able to do this even when these musicians aren't around to help me. I would like to do this even when the Buddha's not sitting in front of me giving me teachings. I would like to be like I am with the Buddha when I can't see the Buddha. I would like to be able to see the Buddha no matter who I'm looking at. I would like to hear the music no matter what the sound is. So I'm not going to scream at you now, but just imagine I did. Is that good enough? Is that enough of a scream? I screamed at you and you let that scream just be that scream? And then you weren't with that scream or not with that scream? And in that scream you opened to the truth. you awakened to reality because you could listen to that scream so wholeheartedly. Any other things you want to tell me before I go?

[31:10]

Yes? I wanted to tell you this is kind of a farewell because this fall I'm going to go to Tassajara for practice period so I won't be able to do a yoga room class this fall so this is kind of like thank you very much Bye-bye. Yes? I was thinking about what you said about a peaceful situation and not being with it or not with it. A peaceful situation, when I think about it, if you... in a peaceful moment. That seems more like, I mean, I feel like I am part of it, and it is part of me. It's more like the music. Yeah, so it's more like the music, yeah. So, but you said don't be... I don't know if I said don't be with it.

[32:15]

I'm just saying if you are with the peaceful situation, then that's suffering. That's all I said. I didn't say don't suffer. So is it clinging to the peaceful situation from outside? Yeah, if you're with the peaceful situation, there's clinging. Excuse me. If you're with the peaceful situation, I'm suggesting you're clinging. Now, you might say, well, I'm not clinging to the peaceful situation. I'd say, okay, whatever you say. But if you're with it, you're clinging to yourself. If you weren't clinging to yourself, there would just be the peaceful situation. And there would just be you. But there wouldn't be you with it. So, if I'm in a peaceful situation, If I'm with it, then me being with it defiles it.

[33:16]

There's me and it. Which is not true. There's not really me and it. And that's what I like about peaceful situations, is there's not me and it. There's peaceful situation and I'm it. But if there's me and it, then I could be me over here and it over there, and that's not good. That's not what I want. Now, of course, terrible situations is the same, except it's kind of surprising because if it's an unpeaceful situation and I'm with it, I'm suffering. But if it's an unpeaceful situation and I'm not with it, that's the end of suffering. That's kind of hard for people to understand. If it's a horrible situation and you're not with it, that's the end of suffering. You're not with it. If you're not with it. It's the end of suffering. It's the end of suffering, you say. If you're not with things, if you're not with things, that's the end of suffering.

[34:21]

And actually you're not. In the teaching, the difficult teaching is you're not with things, you are things. You are all things. You're not with all things. Being with all things is definition of suffering. delusion and suffering. But you're not. And the teaching is you're not with all things. You include all things. You're not with them. You're included all things. You're not with them. That's difficult to accept. Because there's some things we don't want to include, right? Because if we included them, what would happen to me if I included certain things which I do not want to include? Or if I was included in those things, What would happen to me? So again, if there's a peaceful situation and you're not with it and you're just about to enter it, you might think, well, if I enter, what about me? What will happen to me if it's just like a peaceful situation and me, but not with it?

[35:25]

Okay? So that's why we train this way. And again, as you get to the place where you're almost ready to let things be, you kind of wisely know That if you would let it all the way be, that's going to mean letting go of yourself. Not the annihilation of yourself, but you actually will let go of yourself when you do justice to things. You'll let go of yourself. But when you start, when you, and when you open to the specter of letting go of yourself, that sometimes shifts in people's minds to, myself will be annihilated. So as you open to this infinite reality of where you're not with things, and you're also not not with things, where you are things, we start trembling. It's very mysterious.

[36:27]

It's called, what do you call it? Somebody called, uh, mysterium tremendum. you start to open to your actual life together with all beings and everybody's life together with you. You open to that when you let things be and also you let go of yourself. But we have some things built into us which say, I don't know if this is going to work out. I might be annihilated, you won't be, but You're just letting go of clinging to yourself. You're not destroying yourself. But if I don't cling to myself, if I don't cling to good, but good is not calling you to cling to it. It wants you to be just with it, not cling to it. Clinging to justice is injustice. Letting justice be justice is justice.

[37:29]

But again, if you let justice be justice and also let injustice be injustice and let monsters be monsters and angels be angels, as you start to let angels be angels, you get afraid of what will happen to you if you just let angels be angels and let devils be devils. What will happen is the end of suffering. But what about me? And so on. Okay? That's really clear now, right? And you can check this out do this scary thing of doing justice to things. And you'll see how scary that is. How you think, what will happen to me if I do justice to everybody? Will I still have my driver's license? Yes. So along the same lines, letting things be as they are, don't push away the unpleasant. Don't be averse to it. Yeah, and don't cling to it. Right. So let me give you an example, to the extreme, because I only know the Google way to respond, and I think I know, but... Actually, you gave me an example, now you can give me another one if you want to.

[38:43]

You gave me two examples there. Give me some more if you want. Cancer. Yeah, cancer. So cancer, when cancer comes to me, if it does, I, oh, by the way, I vow to welcome cancer. I vow to welcome cancer. I want to welcome cancer if it comes. I had a heart attack, didn't have cancer, but I had a heart attack. Did I welcome it? I think I did pretty well welcoming the heart attack. Yes. But? But. Well, what about? So, if you welcome in in letting things be just be. Two examples. One preventing before it begins. Finish the sentence. In letting things be Do you not seek treatment? Do you let... Well, that's the question. You know, should you... If the cancer comes and you hear about the teaching, well, in the cancer, will there be just the cancer?

[39:47]

Should we intervene with the cancer? Yeah. The Buddha sees the cancer and the Buddha lets the cancer be cancer. And then the Buddha... The Buddha tells her husband... And her husband says, are you going to go to the doctor? And you say, okay. Yeah, maybe I should. And then you go, let the doctor be the doctor. And you let the car that you're riding in be the car you're riding in. And you let the driver who's, you know, maybe nervous and saying lots of silly things, you let them be that person. You let things be. And one of the things that you let be is the thought, maybe I'll go to see a doctor about this. Or maybe I won't. And also maybe I'll tell my spouse that I'm not going to go to the doctor and see what they think. All these thoughts can arise and you can do justice to each one. Should I talk to my family about it? Should I go to a doctor? Actually, usually when you find out you have cancer, usually it's a doctor that tells you rather than just think yourself.

[40:57]

But you could say, I think I have cancer. Or a lot of people think maybe I have cancer. Like in my case, I thought, maybe I'm having a heart attack. Anyway, I did pretty good with a heart attack. When I fell off a bicycle and hit the cement on this greater shokander, the first instant I didn't welcome it. I didn't say, welcome, smash, body. I said, shit. But then I recovered and said, relax. Relax. So, I'm proposing that in the short run, and definitely in the long run, if you treat illness, hardship, assault, if you treat these things in this way, you will respond well to the situation.

[42:01]

It isn't necessarily good to go to a doctor if you find out you have cancer. But it might be good. I'm just saying if you do this practice your response is going to be in the short run maybe better, in the long run definitely better. I keep going to the cardiologist Let's see. I see Linda and EJ. And anybody else? OK. EJ's first, I think. Yes? So you mentioned the anticipating or perceived fear of annihilation, annihilation of the self, and how that can feel like maybe that's not... like that is an unwholesome thing that may happen.

[43:05]

In a way, it would be unwholesome because it would be another flare-up of delusion. If I think that myself's going to be annihilated, I've been trained now to realize, well, that's a delusion. Buddha teaches that nothing's annihilated, including myself. So if I think I'm going to be annihilated, I say, oh, okay, relax, little guy. Yeah? So with that fear, that fear, I was very convincing and very... Well, see, you say convincing. I am convinced that fear is fear. What do you mean by convinced? Convinced in a way that there's a lack of trust. Oh, I think I know what you mean. Convinced that what you're afraid of is actually going to happen. Is that what you mean by convinced? That it's actually going to happen, and therefore maybe this is not possible. Yeah, right, yeah. So if I'm afraid of something happening, if I do this, yeah.

[44:09]

And I'm convinced that this will happen if I do this. Yeah. So then what? So then how can we, I guess, bring trust to that and meet that in a way that we can, I guess, trust that we're meeting it and ultimately... Are we talking about meeting the fear in this case? Yes. Yeah, so... let's see, when you're afraid that X is going to happen, I don't really have to get into whether that's true or not because the fear is definitely there calling me. So do I trust do I have faith that taking care of the fear is actually a good idea?

[45:14]

So the thing the fear is afraid about, I don't want to get into that right now, because the fear is definitely here calling for help. This possibility that the fear is concerned with, that's not calling me as immediately as the fear. So do you have any doubts about whether it's good to take care of fear? Like, what's that like? What do you think would be good to do with the fear other than take care of it? To somehow suppress it. To suppress it. So, many examples just popped up. One is, in ancient times, pretty ancient times, before battles, you know, this was at a time when humans had already had drugs, but the drug they had was alcohol.

[46:22]

So before battles, like the Vikings or the Scots or whatever, they got drunk, the Irish bandits. Huh? Huh? Yeah, right. So they drink to suppress the fear. And then there's, when I drink a six pack of beer, I think I'm ten feet tall and bulletproof. That's a country western song. So yeah, if you take drugs, that will suppress the fear and then you can go to war. But if you don't take drugs and you take care of the fear, you might not go to war. you might say, I'm really afraid, I'm taking care of the fear, and I think this is really not a good idea. Or, if it's going to help people, another example I thought of, people are walking across a bridge, a thin bridge, and they kind of need to get to the other side, and some people are like shaking, but we have to go across, and they're like quivering, and somebody comes up to them and slaps them in the face.

[47:29]

and they snap out of the quivering and walk across the bridge. Do they suppress the fear? I say, no. I think they start taking care of the fear. When they're like almost falling apart, they're not taking care of the fear. They're not like, I'm afraid. The fear is calling me to take care of it. I'm going to take care of it. I'm not walking over the thing yet. I'm not walking over that bridge yet. But I'm here on the other side of this cliff and I got fear to take care of. If I don't take care of this fear, it's going to be hard for me to walk across the bridge. So here it is, I'm taking care of fear, and now me, frightened Reb, is going to walk across this bridge. Me, frightened Reb, is going to jump off this cliff into the water. But if I don't take care of the fear, even if I walk across, I'll probably fall off. And if also I get drunk and I walk across the bridge, I'm more likely to fall off. Now, if I'm just going to go into a battle, if I'm drunk, I probably won't be as good. I also won't be as good a fighter.

[48:31]

But if I didn't get drunk, I wouldn't even go into battle. So doing wholesome things and suppressing fear, generally speaking, you're going to be less wholesome, less skillful. I think. Not too many boxers get drunk before they, I mean, you know, high-level, skillful boxers don't get drunk before they box, usually. So I would say, when the fear comes, let's look and see, is it reasonable to doubt that being kind to your fear, that compassion to the fear would be any kind of mistake? Would that actually in any way reduce the skillfulness of relating to whatever you're afraid of, like falling off a bridge or going into cold water or whatever? Again, a lot of people, I swim in cold water.

[49:32]

A lot of people, before they go in cold water, they don't want to face the fear, so they run in screaming. I like to go in slowly and feel that fear as the water goes up my body. It's not going to be hurting me. It's not that cold. It's not going to give me a heart attack. And if it was, I think I would be very afraid to jump in. And I think if I was afraid and I took care of my fear, I would not jump into 32-degree water because I would probably die. But I do know that I can go into 53 degree water or 50 degree water. I know from experience that I can go in, but still my body gets frightened. And I take care of the fear and I go into the water more skillfully that way. Sometimes the fear is telling you something you shouldn't do.

[50:33]

If you take care of the fear, you can tell. This fear is waking me up to look at the situation and decide, I cannot walk over this bridge. But I can see that very clearly because I'm taking care of my fear. It's not that my fear is obscuring my vision. It's my not taking care of the fear that obscures my vision. If you take care of your fear, your wisdom eye will open. If you do justice to your fear, your wisdom eye will open. So anybody who has any doubts about the virtues of taking care of fear, please let me know. I have great faith in being compassionate to fear. I don't have great faith that the various things you're afraid of doing are good to do. Like if you're afraid to go attack some big powerful person, I might say, you know, I agree with you, that's probably not a good idea.

[51:41]

If you're afraid to do certain kinds of ascetic practices, I might say, yeah, I think probably you're not ready for that. I think that fear is actually, I think, listen to that fear and let's not do that. But let's listen to the fear. And if we listen to the fear, then we can look and see, well, is what it's about actually something that's not wholesome? Is that light clear now? Yeah, you're welcome. Linda, it's not very late. Go ahead. It's gone, gone. Well, welcome back. Yes? I think I'm out of that crisis of faith here. Okay, welcome crisis of faith. Well, DJ had a little crisis of faith there for a little while. Now you can have one. You can all have one. So, and I also feel like I'm in a very predictable, disappointingly predictable response to what you're saying, like low-level response.

[52:50]

So I imagine I'm sitting here and there's a child here, a little old person here, and a person who's clearly intended to do harm. Yeah. So I think you're saying that if I were really realized, I wouldn't know it. that by really meeting this person, this energy, this whatever, this weapon, not resisting it, letting it be itself, I wouldn't need to self-meditate, self-be my practice, and take care of these people and harm others. So I think, but I, and I know that if the situation really happened, I have no idea what I'd do, so I'm not even worried about that. But what I hope about is, but I don't know if I will be, that if I were breathing that God in, these two people would be saved. And then I think, well, maybe I'm not so scared about these folks who are in Panama.

[53:55]

The Buddha is not like a god who's in control of the universe. So if there's a landslide coming down, and you're with a bunch of kids, this practice isn't necessarily going to stop the landslide. Maybe the Buddha can stop landslides, but I don't know. Sometimes the Buddha can stop landslides, sometimes the Buddha can't. But when the mud's coming, the Buddha can wake everybody up. as the mud's coming. But the mud may not be stopped by getting yourself between the kids and the mud. That may not work. The mud may come over you and the kids. How about an assailant? An assailant rather than mud. Yeah, the assailant might come. And so, let's see.

[54:55]

And if the assailant's going to come and you can get away from the assailant, why not? If the mudslide's coming and you can get away from the mudslide, why not? So, anything else you want? Any other examples? Yeah, you can't get away. Yeah, you can't get away. You can't get away. You can't get away from the mudslide, is what I just said. So you take care of people with the mud coming over us. You can't get away from the assailant, so you take care of people, including the assailant, while the assailant's coming. Now, I just told you a story about the Buddha. The assailant came, and the Buddha waked the person up. That's where I sit. Crisis of faith. But I'm not saying you're going to be able to do that or I'm going to be able to do that. I aspire. This practice is for people who aspire to be able to stop an aggressor and wake the aggressor up.

[56:02]

That's what I aspire to. If the aggressor is coming and I cannot do justice to them, then probably they're not going to wake up unless somebody else comes and wakes them up. So if an aggressor is coming, I can walk away from the aggressor. But I aspire to be able to not just walk away from the aggressor, but wake the aggressor up and protect everybody in the neighborhood. That's pretty easy to sign on for, to aspire. Yeah, I aspire to that. And there's many stories in Buddhism about people attacking somebody and the person relating to them in a way that wakes them up. Or at least, if not wakes them up, pacifies them. Like that story I often tell about my friend who was on a trolley car in Japan. And my friend was a martial artist. And this big, aggressive man got on the trolley and was walking down the aisle threatening everybody.

[57:11]

And my friend says, when he gets back here, I'm going to take care of him. And then the trolley stopped and a little old man got in the car and saw this big, enraged, insane person and said, hello, sweetheart, what's the matter? And the guy broke down and started crying. He said, my wife just died. So he was able to go there and meet this aggressive force with compassion and wake up the person, at least pacify them. I aspire to that, don't you? Yeah. And so if you walk around like meeting everybody, like letting them be, you let somebody be and you say, how are you? Now it doesn't mean they're always going to wake up, but that I aspire to do it so skillfully that they wake up. And they wake up and everybody's protected. That's what I aspire to. If you aspire to this kind of thing, then this is a practice for you.

[58:14]

This practice of letting things be is for people who are trying to help people. It's a practice to help people. But when you help people, you have to do justice to them, which means you're not like messing with them and getting deluded people to not be deluded. You're letting this big, dangerous, deluded person be just this big, dangerous, deluded person. And you're transmitting this justice to them. I aspire to that. But again, you may aspire to that, but you need a training to be effective at it. Because otherwise, it's me and him. And that's not doing justice. Or, turn it the other way around, if you do justice, it's not me and him anymore. And it's also not me and not him. Doing justice to things realizes the truth. Realizing the truth does justice.

[59:17]

But we have to train because we're deluded. But deluded people can train. Letting their delusion be delusion. And if you let your delusion be delusion, you will be free of that delusion. You won't be with it. You won't be in it. And you're not. So you've got reality working for you. You just have to do certain trainings to realize it. and there's lots of opportunities to realize it, and many of these opportunities are very difficult to, like, let them be. Like, I was, you know, I took a young lady to the airport today and she was, what do you call it, a miner. She was young in the area of being a miner. So I accompanied the miner to the gate.

[60:19]

And it was hard to stay on the beam of letting each moment of this really long process And she also was having a hard time. We were waiting in line to get this document so I could go through security with her. And she was having trouble because there were people way up ahead of the line who were just there and not moving. They weren't getting processed. I don't know what was going on, but they were just standing there at the head of this line, and the line was just stopped. And she was having trouble. In that case, it was pretty easy for me to just be there at the end of the line with the line not moving. I was kind of okay with being there for that. But at various other points later in the process, I had some difficulty.

[61:25]

just letting the scene, in this case, S-C-E-N-E, be the scene. So after she got on the airplane, and she got to go on the airplane ahead of everybody, which she wanted to do, because they give these kids treats when they get on the airplane. Then I had to stay at the airport, not just until everybody else got on the airplane, but until the airplane took off. It was a long time for me to be standing there, sitting there, whatever. I was having some difficulty just letting this scene of me spending my day, basically almost all day I spent in the airport. It was hard, but I remembered the teaching. I was trying to be there. Do you cross your mind?

[62:27]

No. But you're an angel. Nobody came running down... And then when I finally did get to Berkeley, I went to 24 Hour Fitness to work out, and I went over to this one man, a big African-American man, Excuse me for mentioning that, but he was. And I said, are you using those weights? And he said, yeah, I'm using them. I'm about to use them. And I said, oh, okay, thank you. And then I walked away and he said, hey, man, come here. Come back, come back, come back. He said, I can't let you go away with nothing. Here they are. Please take them. I said, you sure? He said, yeah, go ahead. So I took them. And I kept thanking him, you know, as he walked by and stuff.

[63:31]

And then later in another part of the gym, there was an African American man using a piece of equipment. And I said, when he was not using it, I said, could I use it? Can I work in with you? And he said, no. He said, I'm about to do another set. I said, well, could I do it? When are you going to do the set? He said, just give me a minute. I said, no. And he got really mad at me. These kind of situations are coming all the time. To let things be. To let the seen be just the seen. So many opportunities. And when you don't let it be, the seen is still the seen. It's just what happens inside your head is different. The scene is just a scene. If you don't let it be the scene, then you're with it and then there's suffering.

[64:33]

It's not just in your head, it's the whole situation. You're out of tune with the whole situation because you're not doing justice to whatever's calling to you to do justice. But anyway, it's not the end of the world. I didn't do justice. Okay, I'll try again. Try again. Try again. And see if you ever regret it. See if you ever regret letting things be. See if you ever regret it. Let me know if you do. I just wanted to say that I appreciated your opening, what you said at the opening, and I felt like I understood what you were saying. It helped me. And as the discussion goes on, I see it like the problem that we're talking about not so much as

[65:40]

should we do this or should we do that, but as a skill, the way we use language to talk about these things which are really hard. So if you say, let things be, a lot of us will quickly misunderstand. Yeah. Or we'll understand that, oh, that means passivity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I wrote this down. I said, I wrote it down on a piece of paper. When we hear of letting things be, we may think that that means doing nothing. So should I avoid saying that? I didn't. I said it. I said letting be and then I also said when we hear that we may think that that means doing nothing. But in the bodhisattva context if you have the vow to... if I have the vow to liberate beings then letting you be is the way of entering and becoming Buddha.

[66:45]

It's in the context of if you want to actually become Buddha you have to let things be. Letting things be is in fact generosity, ethical discipline. So all these practices, ethical people, and even generosity people sometimes think, well, that's not doing anything. But usually when you get into ethical discipline, they think, well, that is doing something. Well, patience people sometimes think, that's not doing anything, and so on. So many practices people think maybe isn't doing anything, but these practices are actually all just coming down to letting things be. they're coming down to wisdom. They're coming down to letting things be so that they can reveal the truth. But there is this danger of people think we're saying to do nothing. So that's why people ask the question, and that's why I brought it up. It's because letting, and again, if you try letting things be, you realize it's actually a major effort.

[67:48]

It's not doing nothing. And it's actually letting all the things you do be. you are active. But it's, that's what I'm saying, this is a difficult teaching. And I, my karma is to bring you difficult teachings, to teachings that can easily be misunderstood. Which is again part of the reason we need to meet face to face so I can tell you and you can tell me and I can say, well, that's not what I meant. Or that's not, yeah, that's not what I'm saying. And little by little we find out how to do the practice, do the training. Yes? I think one of the things that I'm understanding from this conversation is that when we talk about mature practice or not mature practice, that

[68:49]

Wherever you're practicing it actually isn't a problem. That you're just practicing with the practice that you have, and there isn't a way of saying, well, I'll practice this way when I become a more enlightened being. But for now, since I'm not there, I won't even try. I won't do that. that it's a responsibility in the movement to have practice that is more constrained than the practice you already have, because you just have the practice that you have right then. And the practice you have right then, you might feel like, well, the practice I have right now is I'm resisting doing the practice. That's what I have right now. Right now, I'm having trouble letting I'm having trouble doing justice to this person.

[69:54]

I'm not really listening to this person. I'm trying to make this person different. So I'm not really doing this practice very well. But I am noticing that I'm not doing well. And I'm embarrassed. And I still want to try, even though I just didn't do very well. I want to try again. And also I actually did a pretty good job of feeling embarrassed of not doing what I actually want to do. And when I'm more advanced I won't be able to be embarrassed about this problem anymore. I won't have it. So I'm performing my function in my particular position right now. I am letting the problems I have now be the problems I have now And later I won't have these problems probably anymore. I'll have new problems that I didn't have before. And then later, someday I won't have any problems, but I'm still somewhat helpful with this level of development, confessing I'm at this level of development.

[71:07]

It helps people because they're at some level of development. They can all see, well, if I confess my level of development, I will not get stuck in it. So we can keep not getting stuck in our present level and become more mature if we accept our current level of immaturity. Was that clear? So each of us is somewhat mature and also somewhat not mature. And except letting our maturity just be our maturity, will be possible when we can let everything just be everything. But now sometimes I have trouble letting things be, so I have trouble letting my maturity be too. But I admit it, and that is the process of maturity is the process of noticing lots of immaturity in myself.

[72:08]

and letting my immaturity be just my immaturity. That's the process of maturing. Let your immaturity... Let the green persimmon be green. And be kind of embarrassed that it's green, maybe. And not edible. Even when they're orange, they're not edible for a long time. Yeah. Let the orange, inedible one be orange and inedible. let the Western persimmon be a Western persimmon, let the Eastern persimmon be an Eastern persimmon. Letting the immature, being immature and being embarrassed about the immature because the immature is embarrassing in relationship to your aspiration to maturity. That embarrassment, that awareness of the immaturity and that embarrassment with the immaturity matures the fruit. That creates the warmth that will mature our immaturity.

[73:15]

That seems like a good thing to stop on, doesn't it? Yes, Nancy. I didn't quite hear what you said about coming back to the yoga room. Could you repeat what you said? I'm going to Tassajara this fall to do a three-month practice period. Would you come with me, please? Would you come with me, please? Yeah, I'm going to Tassajara, so I won't be able to come out and do a series. I might be able to come here one night and say hi, but I can't come through. For three months. Only for three months. When will we see you again? Like, see you here again in February or March of next year? Yeah, you might see me in February. Okay. Are there some days at No Abode? Huh? Are there some days? I'm coming up a couple times for No Abode, yeah.

[74:20]

But I can't do a series. I can't do a six-week or seven-week series this fall. And I will miss your face. You will not miss my face. Thank you so much for hanging in there with my face. May our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way.

[74:56]

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