As I mentioned earlier, when Shakyamuni Buddha awoke under the Bodhi tree, he contemplated how the world of birth and death dependently co-arises. And he saw how when the conditions for the arising of the world of birth and death are not present, the world of birth and death does not arise. It ceases. He then went on to practice and recommend the practice of the contemplation of the sameness of all things, the equality of all life. the awareness where Buddhas teach grasses, people, pebbles, trees, and where this teaching resonates back from the grasses, people, pebbles and trees,

[01:54]

to the Buddhas. And this resonance goes on endlessly, everybody helping everybody awaken. Many generations of disciples followed and after 28 generations I've heard there was a person named Bodhidharma who came from India to China. And although he had already received this mind, Or you could say because he had already received this mind, he sat upright and still for nine years in the little forest facing a wall.

[03:11]

to demonstrate the oneness of all life. Three generations later, his disciple Daoshin made his central teaching to be concentrated on the sameness of all life, on the uniform quality of Buddhas, worms, trees, men and women. concentrate on the sameness, to concentrate on the inseparableness, to be aware that there's really no distinction between any life form and another.

[04:43]

The one practice, samadhi, always doing the same practice, or the samadhi of the oneness of all life, the calmness, the mindfulness of the uniformity of all life. This was his main teaching, and he was always guarding this awareness. This one awareness. Or at least that was his vow. Two generations later came the ordinary person. We say he was an ordinary guy. who became an ancestor of this lineage and actually became the source of all the Zen lineages.

[06:00]

Khoi Nung, able in wisdom, able to be wise. An uneducated wood salesman. firewood peddler, rice sifter. But he, like all of us, was inseparable from all the Buddhas and therefore could realize the way and inherit the teaching and pass it on to the next generation. One day, a monk came to see him.

[07:15]

A monk named Well, one name he has is Wai Rong. Another name he has is Nan Yue. He came to see the great ancestor, Hui Nung, and Hui Nung said, where from? And Wai Rong said, Mount Sung. And the ancestor said, what is it that thus comes? Wairang thought about that for eight years. And after eight years, he came back to the ancestor and said, I have some understanding.

[08:27]

of what it is that thus comes. The answer just said, well, what? Huay Rang said, to speak of it doesn't hit the mark. What is it that thus comes? What is the Tathagata, in other words? What is the Buddha? Eight years later, to speak of it doesn't hit the mark. The ancestors said, then is there no practice and realization And Huay Rang said, I don't say there's no practice of realization, just that it cannot be defiled.

[09:35]

It, the Tathagata, cannot be defiled. You can talk about it, but it doesn't hit the mark. The ancestor Huinong said, this non-defilement of Buddha has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. Now I'm like this and you're like this too. What did this guy do for eight years? I don't know.

[10:39]

But he might have occasionally been thinking about the question, what is it that thus comes? Who knows? Maybe that's what he was concentrating on the whole time. What is Buddha? And maybe he came up with various things, like many of us would. But he found that none of them, nothing that we come up with hits the mark. So he came back and reported it. And it's not that he wasn't practicing or didn't have realization. Actually, he did have some realization. Realization did occur. And that's when he came back. He understood that it just can't be defiled You can be intimate with it. It can be realized. It just cannot be defiled.

[11:44]

It can't be defiled. Nanyue had... a great disciple named Matsu and many others, but Matsu was one in particular. And Matsu taught that the way of meditation does not require cultivation. Just don't be defiled, or just don't defile it. Matsu had many, many disciples, enlightened disciples.

[12:50]

One of them was named Bajang, and Bajang taught the way of meditation does not require cultivation. Just don't be defiled. Bajong had many disciples. One of the great ones was named Wang Bo. Wang Bo said, all living beings and Buddhas are just one mind. and there's nothing else. It has no characteristics.

[13:54]

It has no marks. It has no birth. It has no death. But human beings, sentient beings, like to have a strong tendency to attach to characteristics. So when confronted with Buddha, they try to find some characteristics of it so they can grasp it. But all these teachers teach us, don't try to grasp this mind. Just wake up to it. Just become intimate with it, and then there's nothing to attain. Just don't defile it.

[15:00]

Just don't put a here or a there or an in-between on it. Just don't affirm or negate it. Don't say it's this. Don't say it's not this. Don't say it's that. Don't say it's not that. Don't say it's here. Don't say it's there. Don't say it's in-between. And don't say it's not here and not there and not in-between. Don't put yourself into it or out of it. Don't bring self and other into it at all. Defile, the English word defile means to trample down.

[16:15]

Don't trample or injure your true nature, which is that you are not other than Buddha. One day Wang Bo came into the hall and said, having many sorts of knowledge cannot compare with giving up seeking. Giving up seeking for anything, which is the best of all things.

[17:23]

One time in the tea room, quite a few years ago, there was a scroll hanging, and I think the scroll says in Japanese, , which means, not having anything, this is a fine person. Some of you, some of us, may have something. It's okay. But if you just set aside all the stuff you have and just sit there or stand there with nothing, this is a fine person. Now, if you're actually hankering after what you just set aside, then you're defiling yourself.

[18:42]

You don't feel You're good enough just standing there naked, living. So you're not a fine person because you have injured yourself by thinking you need this stuff. This scroll's hanging in the tea room, and the people in the tea room are like, you know, studying tea. They're trying to learn how to serve tea in this ceremonial way. They get all dressed up. Well, before they get all dressed up, they clean the tea room, and they go and they get a nice flower in the garden, some fresh little flower that won't last too long, and they put it in the little altar area of the tea room, and they put some nice smelling incense in the burner, and they put everything out really lovely, really beautiful, and then they remember that this whole thing's about somebody not having anything.

[19:53]

This having a cup of tea is to celebrate not having anything. to be without seeking his primary. Buddha is transparent. It cannot be seen.

[21:01]

Mind also cannot be seen. Light cannot be seen. Beauty cannot be seen. But there is always Buddha, always mind, always light, and always beauty. It's just that you can't see it, any of it. Also, Buddha, light, mind, and beauty cannot be defiled. You can only see light in reflection. You can only see Buddha in reflection. You can only see mind in reflection, and you can only see beauty in reflection.

[22:09]

And everything reflects Buddha. Everything reflects mind. Everything reflects beauty, and everything reflects light. Even black reflects light by hogging it all. To say you can see light is not true. You cannot. Buddha practices giving.

[23:16]

Buddha practices careful, mindful, vigilant observation of every activity of body, speech, and mind. Buddha practices patience. Buddha practices enthusiasm enthusiastically. Buddha practices concentration. And Buddha practices wisdom. But Buddha does not practice these practices in order to become Buddha. These are the practices of Buddha, not practices to become Buddha. These are practices of bodhisattvas, not practices to become bodhisattvas.

[24:19]

Buddhas are born out of love for all life. But there's no seeking in their practice. There's just joyful practice. But you already knew that, right? But did you apply it to yourself? To do Buddha's practice is to do the practice of Buddha, not to seek to be something other than the practice of Buddha. It is to practice giving to practice giving. It is to practice paying attention and being careful of every action of body, speech, and

[25:26]

Just so, without trying to get anything. Just being willing to practice paying attention in the midst of the practice of paying attention. Just to practice patience. Just to listen without trying to hear anything. just to wait, but not for something. In other words, just be still. But to practice, you know, the six perfections of giving and so on with the intention of becoming a Buddha is to advance by stages. And there has never been a Buddha

[26:30]

who achieved Buddhahood by going through stages. They do not approach Buddhahood progressively. And in Buddhism, there is a teaching of stages to Buddhahood. But those stages are not how the Buddha becomes Buddha. Buddha becomes Buddha by waking up to Buddha. But there are stages, and they're really neat, the stages. Someday I'll give a class on the stages. It'll be well attended, because they're so neat. Wittgenstein said, any place I need a ladder to get to, I'm not interested in.

[27:43]

So the Buddha does not have stages, but sincere disciples of Buddha have described stages on the path of the Buddha. But the Buddha doesn't have these stages. Buddha has no characteristics, including stages. However, everything reflects Buddha, including stages. Not like stages are like, you know, excluded.

[29:21]

Worms, you know, reflect Buddha, but stages don't. No, stages reflect Buddha, so they're neat. But so are worms. Do you know what worms do? Some worms? They eat garbage and turn it into soil. Isn't that nice of them? Stages do that too. They eat garbage and turn it into soil. Stages are nice. It's just that Buddhas don't have any stages and still Buddhas don't have worms either. But Buddhas are inseparable from worms and stages. If you reach for a worm and you reach for a stage, you don't get Buddha. You get a worm or a stage, which is fine. No problem. Just don't think that you got Buddha when you grabbed onto the worm.

[30:27]

Worm's good enough. And that worm, just like you, is inseparable from Buddha. No difference. Same. Same as Buddha. All the different things are same as Buddha. All the different Buddhas are same as us. So all we got to do is awake to this, to the oneness. And before you awake to it, you can just concentrate on it. Just remember. this understanding of the ancestors that ordinary and sage are not different. Buddhas and sentient beings are not different. All life is one. Just remember that until you wake up to that.

[31:31]

That's all you have to do. Well, and when you do that, you have to give up everything else besides that. Which doesn't mean lots of stuff isn't going on. It doesn't mean your food's not being digested or you're not getting good nights' rest. It doesn't mean you're not sitting upright or bowing deeply. Great activity is going on. It's just that you give it up. You just give it up, that's all, because you're into paying attention to something. The oneness of all life. The oneness of all activity. You're just paying attention to it. The oneness of all the different practices. The oneness of the people who are practicing and the people who aren't practicing. The oneness of the generous and the stingy.

[32:36]

The oneness of the patient and the impatient. And by paying attention to that, you're practicing giving and practicing patience. You're sitting and standing upright on the earth, and you're not moving a particle of dust. You're just watching the dust. And in each dust particle, Buddha is reflected. Mind is reflected. Light is reflected. Beauty is reflected. All these things which you can't grasp are reflected in each thing. And you don't grasp the things and you don't move the things. You don't grasp the Buddha and you don't wiggle the Buddha. You bow to Buddha. You say hello to Buddha. You say, I appreciate you, Buddha.

[33:39]

You say, thank you, Buddha. You can also say, no, thank you, Buddha. But the spirit is not moving Buddha, not grabbing Buddha, not rejecting Buddha, not seeking Buddha. Just wake up to Buddha. Just Buddha Buddha, just Bodhi Buddha. How? Practice all virtues. Be upright, gentle, honest, and harmonious.

[34:39]

How do you practice all virtues? Enter into what you're experiencing right now. Be upright. Just be balanced in the middle of this. Be gentle. Be gentle with yourself and feel how everything's being gentle with you.

[35:49]

how everything's gently supporting you. Harmonize with what's happening to you. Harmonize with everything. See how everything's harmonizing with you. As you know, you've probably heard, anyway, the expression seekers, seekers of the way. And we even have an expression around Zen Center, way-seeking mind.

[36:57]

So, sorry about that. So the way-seeking mind, I would say, when it really settles down to the essential work, it's not seeking anything. It's given up, or I should say, it's given up seeking. There still may be seeking going on someplace, just like there still may be salivation and that seeking and salivation may be normal functions of a human being, but they've been given up in the way-seeking mind. December the 10th.

[40:45]

Today is December the 10th. Right? Did I have to remind it? Thank you. So, I always think, if I remember that it's December 10th, on December 10th I forgot that it was. but then somebody reminded me. So now I remember that it's December the 10th. When I remember it's December 10th, I always remember there's something about December 10th that's very important for me, because something happened on that day. After work, I worked at Bank of America. After work, I came back to my little house across from Zen Center over on Bush Street, and I went over to talk to Suzuki Roshi.

[41:49]

So it's kind of dark, dark afternoon. I went up to his little office that had orchids in it and a big TV. And I went and I asked him if I could go to Tassajara for the winter practice period. That was December 10th, exactly 30 years ago today. And he said, it's okay with me, ask them. Why do I remember that day?

[42:53]

Them said, okay. So I went to Tathāsara for winter practice period. But why do I remember that day? I think I remember that day because for that hour or that minute in that little room with the little man, I think I remember it because there was light in the room. Now, the way the room was lighted, actually, I didn't like the kind of lighting he had in his room. It was kind of fluorescent light, which I don't like, but that's the kind he had. But that wasn't the light that made me remember the room. That's just a light that reminded me that there's been light all along.

[44:06]

Throughout my life, there's been light shining. It never stopped. It was shining before I walked into that office and after I left. what was beautiful about that moment was, you know, there's nothing intrinsically beautiful about that moment. He wasn't very nice to me, particularly. Just said, okay, ask them. Just a little old Japanese man. So I just, I think of that on December 10th. I thought I'd tell you about it, too. So I'm not grasping that light, but I still remember that little talk I had.

[46:33]

I actually can't grasp it. I don't know what it was. But when I think about it a little bit, I think the light was there before and after, like I said. And then I think, well, for each of you, too, the light has been there all along and will continue to be reflected in everything you see from now on, too. It doesn't have any characteristics, this light. It's not what you see, and yet whatever you see reflects it. Without exception. Without exception. Without a pause. Except maybe if you want to take a break.

[47:45]

But be careful when you take a break because it might be many lifetimes before you come off the break. The first three talks I gave were for me kind of short, and now I'll stop talking. And if we had question and answer, then it would get long. It's possible that this teaching has entered into you and that's it. But if there's anything you want to say in front of everybody, you're welcome to do so.

[48:59]

You said that Buddha and light has no characteristics. And yet, there's these things like sitting upright and following precepts. So I'm trying to reconcile that. And is it maybe that a human who is awakened to Buddha and light In fact, then, it does reflect certain characteristics, like sitting upright or falling or something. Are you trying to grasp some characteristics?

[50:56]

All you've got to do is stop trying to grasp characteristics, and then you'll understand. As soon as you stop trying to grasp characteristics of anything, including Buddha, you will understand Now if you're not trying to grasp characteristics, then what is the point of your question? So I anticipate people trying to grasp characteristics. So I mentioned that Buddhas practice giving and so on. They practice giving. They do. But to make that into a characteristic of a Buddha defiles the Buddha.

[52:05]

And if you make it into a characteristic of Buddha, then you can't help but grasp or reject the characteristic. and get into seeking or avoiding. Buddhas have activity, and that activity is called giving and so on. But the activity is not seeking anything, and there's no grasping of characteristics in the practice of giving. It's giving. It's giving away characteristics, letting go of them and living that life. But the mind has trouble letting it be like that and wants to get a hold of that. So that's understood.

[53:13]

And the mind that wants to do that is the mind of a sentient being. And that mind is inseparable from not trying to get something, not trying to grasp something. And that mind also feels that trying to grasp something and giving up grasping, that those two are separate and grasp that separation. If you stop grasping that separation, you see that there's no difference between grasping and not grasping, between stinginess and giving. There's no difference between Buddha and the stingy ones. But if you slip into giving characteristics to Buddha, then Buddha becomes separate from the stingy ones, and you then are de facto a stingy one.

[54:17]

Because you're holding on to characteristics. You're not letting them go. You're not giving them as gifts. You know, holiday gifts. Here, here's some characteristics. I'm giving them up Characteristics are okay, just don't put them on Buddha. Just don't grasp them. And if you do grasp them, then you got a sentient being, no problem. Because that's what a sentient being is. It's somebody who grasps. We have these phenomena. That's what makes us ancient beings, somebody who's grasping characteristics.

[55:20]

But there's this other thing called Buddha, which is right there too, which is not grasping. Check into Buddha. Wake up to Buddha, the not grasping, which is right there in the grasping. They do. They reflect Buddha and are inseparable from Buddha. There's no difference, but still, I suggest you check out Buddha without seeking in the checking out. Don't check out Buddha like I'm going to get Buddha, because then you'd have to make Buddha into a characteristic.

[56:31]

So sentient beings reflect Buddha. Everything reflects Buddha, yes. But they're not Buddha. They're not Buddha? No, they are Buddha. They are Buddha. Yeah, they're Buddha. Sentient beings are Buddha. There's a difference. There is no difference. Then you say, check up and go. Sorry. What did you say?

[57:31]

It's always the same. Did you just say it's always the same? Yeah. Do you really feel like that? Do you really feel like that? I do, actually. Good. Yeah. I guess you would be saying, you know, I'm tired of this light. I want to now pretend like there's not any light. I'm tired of the light. I want to pretend like I don't see the light in your face. There's still light, but sometimes people, you know, spend quite a while taking a break from seeing it. They say, this is not the light. This is not... This is not a blessed life. This is a lousy life.

[58:33]

I'm a jerk. I'm no good. This is not Buddha's radiance here manifesting as my experience reflected here very nicely in what's happening. This is not it. And that is it. So anyway, once you see the light, once you appreciate how wonderful this moment is, you might feel like, Jesus, I want a break. I want to go someplace where it's dark. So rather than just admit that, we sometimes say, well, this is dark, rather than saying, I just don't want to enjoy life anymore. I want to be miserable because, you know, I don't deserve this happiness," or something like that. That's easier to face somehow than what it's like to be Buddha.

[59:45]

So we take a break, but taking breaks is dangerous because sometimes you forget. You can't remember when you're on break, this is just a break. So watch out for those bricks. Yeah. Buddha has no characteristics, but we can describe activity. You can describe activity, yeah. Mm-hmm. Why do we practice giving rather than, say, practice being stingy? I mean, I know there's an answer, just logically I'm having a problem. Why do we practice giving rather than being stingy? Yeah, right. The Buddha is... the stingy person is Buddha as well as the... and Buddha has no characteristics. But we practice generosity. We practice patience. We don't practice impatience. Have you heard me say I don't answer why questions? No, I've never heard that. Yeah, I don't answer why questions. But this is a good example about why I don't.

[60:49]

Why not? I didn't want you to hear how rude I was. She said, so if the stingy person is Buddha and the generous person is Buddha, why do we practice giving? Right? Something like that? Yeah. So, I just say, Buddha practices giving. Okay? That's a Buddha practice. So rather than why do I practice Buddha's practice, I would just say, do you want to practice Buddhist practice? Do you want to practice giving? If you don't, fine. When you want to, then you're going to want to practice Buddhist practice. And if you practice giving, then it'd be good if you did it like a Buddha did it, namely not as seeking something, but just as a Buddha practice. And also when Buddha practice is giving, Buddha also gives up, you know,

[62:00]

the idea that Buddha's doing it by her own power. Giving activity is not something that anybody does by herself, even. Even being stingy you don't do by yourself, but you feel like you do it by yourself. Now if you feel like everybody's helping you be stingy, really, this is a different kind of stinginess. But actually everybody does help you be stingy. When you're stingy, the whole world supports you in that stinginess. This is cosmic stinginess. Always stinginess is a cosmic event. But once you see that, it's not stinginess anymore. It's like, I'm being stingy, but here, take my stingy body and mind and use it for whatever you want. This is stinginess at the disposal of all living beings. This is extreme joy.

[63:04]

In other words, the stinginess which is really giving. Ebenezer Scrooge was a great benefactor who woke up. But before he woke up, he was already helpful because the waking up wouldn't have been as interesting if he hadn't been stingy beforehand. So how, what's it like to give? What's it like to be stingy? Practicing virtues is to enter into giving and to enter into stinginess. If there's stinginess, we go into the realm of stinginess.

[64:04]

Bodhisattva goes into all the stingy realms and holds hands with the stingy beings. Goes into all the realms of giving. But this entering is giving. This is practicing virtue, is to enter into all realms of all beings, stingy and generous beings. Hold hands with all of them and be upright there. And I don't think why is upright. I think how. What's it like here in generosity land? What's it like here in Stingyville? How is it? What is it that thus comes? If it's stinginess, stinginess has thus come. Stinginess, if there's stinginess, it has thus come. That's Buddha. Buddha is not hindered.

[65:11]

If it's hindered, it's not Buddha. Buddha is unhindered. That's the kind of Buddha we're talking about, unhindered Buddha. It penetrates into every pit. of selfishness and pain. Want to see Buddha? Enter every pit of selfishness and pain. Don't go looking for them. They're right under your nose. And hold hands with whoever lives there. And be upright and gentle. Don't get bogged down in it. Don't get bogged down in it Enter the bog down in it. Lovingly, uprightly, enter the bog down. Don't indulge in bog down. Don't reject bog down.

[66:16]

This is buoyancy in bog. Buddha is unhindered in all things. And inwardly, Buddha is not moving. Inside, not moving. Outside, totally unhindered. Inside, unmoving, radiating a great light which enters all life equally and appropriately. Thank you. I thought I heard something over there. Something fell into place. Did you hear it? I think you also answered my question about darkness and ugliness.

[67:25]

Sometimes you see something dark and ugly, but it's only because you really think it's that way. And usually there's a lot of other people around saying, yes, it is that way, but one has to believe it. Yeah, usually you can find somebody to agree with dark and ugly. But sometimes you can't find anybody to agree and then you're in trouble. All by yourself. Nobody to substantiate your darkness and ugliness. But still, even all by yourself, enter the darkness and ugliness. This is Jizo behind me. That's what Jizo does, this cute guy. He plunges into darkness. His vow, he goes down into darkness and ugliness to help his mom.

[68:28]

When he got there, she had already been saved by his vow to go help her. Then he had to go all the way up to heaven to say hi. enters, you know, he's called earth womb bodhisattva, enters the womb of the earth. That's where the hell's in the, it's called earth prison. Goes down into hell to help his mother. Was somebody all there before Salvi? No? Clear? Linda? In the midst of myriad forms,

[69:38]

one single body revealed. Yes. A friend of mine one time told me that people that come here to Greenville are people that pretty much have problems and very sad people, you know, trying to find for life something. Sort of kind of screwed up people. And, well, I don't know if the right word is screwed up, you know. That's a nice word. But they have problems. And I wonder about that in the sense that maybe we reconnect that we have problems and we're trying to have a path where we have no suffering. And I do believe that people that do not come to Greek College You know, there's a lot of stuff happening out there. You know, there's stealing and all sorts of things, and much suffering is created. Yes. But I believe that there is some truth in that sense that maybe when we're in the past, we are very rarely...

[70:46]

to go into the dark and recognize that. And maybe we have to, I guess, while I'm talking, find a balance not to be too much in the dark side so we can see also the light. Well, when you're talking with your hands, you bent your hand down and said, not too much in the dark. OK? You walk into the dark upright, see? And you don't go into the dark just like, so where's the dark? I'm going to go in the dark. You just sit upright, okay? You just sit where you are, and the dark will come to you and say, come here, Salvi. But don't bend into the dark. Just keep being upright and walking upright. Happy Salvi into the dark. But don't go looking for the dark. You say people come to Green Gulch who have problems, but they come to Green Gulch with their problems because they think this is a nice place.

[71:52]

The people who come to Green Gulch on Sunday, the feeling of coming to Green Gulch is not the same feeling as going down into a homeless shelter. It's like we have a nice garden and more people come on sunny days than rainy days. which still a lot of people come on rainy days, which sometimes amazes me how many come. But anyway, they don't come here because they think this is like the most depressing, darkest place that they can find. That's not why they come. They come, I think, for many reasons, but one of them is they want encouragement. to face the darkness and suffering of their life. They have plenty of it coming at them all the time. They want some encouragement to face it, to not run away, to remember that this darkness and this suffering of the world of grasping characteristics, of right and wrong,

[72:56]

of dark and light, this grasping, miserable life that is available as an option, that that's inseparable from the great light. They want some reminders. They come to be reminded. Yes, there are people who have problems and they come here to be reminded, not to come to go deeper into indulgence in this habit. but to get some advice and some reminders about how to face what's happening in order to become free of it. Because people do want to be happy because that's what they want for themselves. People want happiness for themselves. People want peace for themselves. They do. They want love for themselves. The reason why we do is because we're inseparable from Buddha. Buddha wants that for us, and we're inseparable from wanting that for us.

[74:02]

So, yeah. So we come to Green Gulch, or we go into Suzuki Roshi's office and say, can I go to Tassara? Yes? Papu? Can you point out a question about Buddha's characteristics Yes. Yes. Did you say identify? Identify what? Yes. Wow. Okay, so the characteristics of Buddha are that there aren't any characteristics of Buddha.

[75:39]

Buddha doesn't have characteristics. Now you can say, well, what about Shakyamuni Buddha? Wasn't he a nice guy? Didn't he practice nonviolence? That's what they say, and I don't have any argument with that. But to say that that's a characteristic of Shakyamuni Buddha... That goes in the direction of disrespecting life. not seeking anything.

[76:53]

When I am not seeking anything, my suffering is eased. And when I don't seek anything, the only way I can do that is because I appreciate what I am now. Or, when I don't seek anything, I deeply appreciate what I am now. I deeply respect what I am now. I deeply treasure what I am now. And I don't grasp this thing which I value, appreciate, and love, which deepens the value, appreciation, and love I have for myself.

[78:17]

When I practice that way with myself, I practice that way with others. Seeing me practice that way with others, others will start practicing that way with themselves and with others. Their suffering will be eased and they will ease the suffering of others. But as long as I seek for some characteristics, as long as I grasp for characteristics in sentient beings or in Buddhas, I'm craving. And my action is based on ignorance, which is that I really think that I'm separate from other beings and I really think I'm not good enough the way I am.

[79:19]

I really believe that and I indulge in that darkness. When I see the light, no one has to tell me not to seek. When I practice not seeking, I see the light. When I see the light, I am eased of suffering and I bring that ease and that appreciation to every being I meet, including beings who do not appreciate themselves and who are grasping intensely and in great pain because of the grasping. They are intensely yearning for some other state than this and therefore they are intensely suffering. I do not disrespect them. I do not disrespect the worm that's intensely, voraciously consuming the garbage when I see the light in the worm, reflected in the worm.

[80:34]

What do you think? You're welcome. Yes? Is not seeking the same as surrendering? Sounds pretty close. Or, you know, the two together, I think they help each other. Yeah, they have a somewhat different feeling. But when we say not seeking or surrendering, I'm talking about surrender in a person. You've got a person who's breathing, who's 98.6. You have this living unit here that's very alive.

[81:51]

And for such a being who has all this equipment for assertion and grasping, to practice not seeking, is a revolutionized human. And if they surrender, what are they surrendering to? In what way do they surrender? Is there an object of the surrender? Or is it surrendering into Surrendering into. And what might that into that they surrender? If you surrender, what would you surrender into? You'd surrender into the moment. It wouldn't be surrendering into some other moment, sort of say, I'd like another moment to surrender into. You'd surrender into, you would be making no deals. You would surrender into the moment. And then in the midst of myriad circumstances, in the midst of whatever was happening, he would surrender into that. And only that because that's what's happening.

[82:55]

This is what's coming. This is the Buddha for the moment. You surrender into that and you realize the solitary revealed body. Inwardly unmoving, outwardly unhindered. no matter what's happening, unhindered. In other words, no matter what's happening, you surrender into it. And as you surrender into it, the solitary revealed body blossoms in the midst of it. Because you don't seek other than this, Buddha is realized. Buddha is the non-seeking person. The non-seeking person is Buddha. And even seeking person is Buddha too, but non-seeking realizes Buddha, and then Buddha is manifested in the world.

[83:58]

And because of compassion and love, we are able to practice non-seeking. Okay? Are you settled into the situation? Great. Yes? Is grasping the same as defiling? Yes. Yes? What kind of work? Actually, I was doing computer programming for Bank AmeriCard. They just started Bank AmeriCard. And did they give me time off to go to Tassajara? I didn't ask for time off. I just quit. Would they have given me time off if I had asked to come back?

[85:01]

I don't know. But I just quit. And I felt I really respected the people I worked with, but I didn't want to do that work. I respected the people, though. They were good people. The part I felt bad about was that they were staying there and I was going to Tassajara. I didn't want them to feel like I was putting their life down by leaving. That was the hard part. I didn't feel like I was. I just felt like I wanted to go to Tassajara. What was the work you wanted to do? I wanted to be... Like Buddha. Even then? Kevin, I was older than you.

[86:07]

Older than... When I went to Tassajara, I was 20... I was going to carry the team... I was 20, 24, 25. That's why I came to sitting. I came to sitting because I wanted to be like Buddha, like Buddhas. I wanted to be like that. And maybe I was trying to grasp characteristics, but it was more like I just wanted the activity that I saw in Zen monks, I wanted that activity to be coming through me.

[87:15]

I wanted that my body and mind would respond to situations like their body and mind. I wanted the solitary revealed body to use my body to manifest itself in myriad circumstances. So how does that happen? Well, they have this training program. What's the training program? You just sit. You just sit there and see if you can just sit there to just sit there. In other words, give up all human sentiments and human, you know, attachments and acquisitive habits. Just give them up, at least symbolically, by sitting until you give it up inwardly, until inwardly you're no longer attaching or seeking. this behavior which attracted you or attracted me starts to manifest from this stillness, from this non-seeking center.

[88:27]

From this non-manipulative, non-moving particle of dust center, this living being who is alive already, the life manifests from this non-seeking, non-manipulative, non-acquisitive, non-attaching place and it responds appropriately, appropriately, appropriately. It has no agenda. It just does what naturally is the response to the circumstances. But it's a long training to train all that seeking, all that attaching, train in the midst of all that seeking and grasping and to find a way in the midst of all that to not indulge in it or run away from it.

[89:30]

To be intimate with it and free of it without demolishing it because that's life too. That's precious life. seeking life, precious, grasping, living being. Not to be discouraged, not to be demolished, not to be put down, but to meditate on how that's one with the Buddha until the non-seeking side of the story becomes strong and confident. So that's why we need to train and cultivate this non-attachment, non-grasping, non-seeking.

[90:45]

We need to train at that. the train of not trying to make ourselves into the Buddha. Because the tendency to try to make ourselves into something, to gain something, is so strong. And we'll probably be there for quite a while longer. might as well be there forever, because even if it's there, there still can be such intimacy with this normal human grasping and seeking. If there's enough intimacy with it, it's not a problem anymore. It's more like a dance partner. And the meditation and the seeking tendency come into such harmonious balance and there's such uprightness with the seeking that it's not seeking anymore.

[91:59]

It's the flowering of enlightenment.

[92:03]

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